LGR Oddware - Iomega Bernoulli Box 230 Storage Drive
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- One of the earliest high capacity portable storage mediums, and also one of the most reliable. The Bernoulli drive, the first product by Zip/Jaz drive creators, Iomega!
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● More on the Bernoulli Box:
• Iomega Bernoulli Box A...
i demand an oddware of Clint's cat
I second this
But is his cat forgotten and obsolete?!
(Though she is super fluffy and snuggly)
Yeah!! Like Zeos reviewed his cat on Z review.... friggin funny
...Entirely in the voice of Duke Nukem
Yes
Please make an Oddware video about your cat so that we may better understand its inner workings.
+Tony Villarreal
It's a she!
The Bernoulli system was a staple of the publishing industry. Every print shop and publishing house I dealt with in the 1990's had it. They were the best way to move print-ready files around at the time. Floppies were too low capacity and prone to a random failure in the stack and modems were too slow for online transfer.
But when Zip drives came along, the Bernoulli drives vanished quickly, and the CDRs drove the zip drives to the dust bin.
If you're still looking for Bernoulli hardware or media, publishing agencies and printing businesses might be a good place to hunt. Many of them have closets full of old tech they didn't discard.
Thanks for the hunting tip kind and wise stranger
My Dad worked in print shops during that time. I never remember seeing one of these Bernoulli drives, but the Syquest cartridge system was ubiquitous and could store 40 or 80 megabytes. Syquest was displaced by Zip and Jaz drives and then CD-Rs shortly after.
Bernoulli Drive sounds like some sort of faster than light driver for a spaceship.
Shaw fujikawa
It actually sounds like some kind of electrical pasta
Ironically a spaceship couldnt use bernoulli's principle cause there is no fluid in space!
You're thinking of Alcubierre Drive
"Sir, the enemy cruiser has disabled our Bernoulli drive. We can't jump to FTL!"
I have to give a shout out for Bernoulli disks. I have stacks of 90MB, 150MB and 230MB disks. They are all still perfectly functional and work with no issues. They are stored in the worst place possible. My garage, which has temp swings through the year from 120F to 0F.
I don't think I have any other functional diskettes or magnetic media from this time frame. Even my HDD's from the same era are crap now. The Bernoulli drives and disks keep on ticking,
I've got Commodore 64 floppies that still work fine
is that a metric Garfield or an imperial Garfield?
I don't always make my videos at 3:40 AM. But when I do, they're about Bernoulli Boxes.
I don't always drink beer but when I do it's..... the greatest man in the world
I used to use one of these in the early 90s for desktop publishing. The average hard drive was 120MB back then and having one of these external drives was a marvel.
I think you need to move the SCSI ID from 0(boot) to something higher like say 5. Make sure you don't have any IRQ or DMA conflicts on the host adapter. I typically set these things to IRQ 5, DMA 3, and disabled the paralell port or move its IRQ to 7. The BIOS may also need Shadow mode turned off. Often times these things required a rubber chicken, a seance, and a few precision crafted incantations to make it all work properly. But once working and as long as you didn't change any hardware it would usually work great.
BTW. you touching the floppy disk with your finger nearly killed me as I remember how expensive and fragile these things were. LOL
Very interesting and the cat is adorable. Ten years or so back my brother-in-law and I were trying to install some things in an old computer on the dining room table, and my cat helped. The computer would never boot afterwards. I think fluffy cats and electronic circuits do not mix.
Key word. My kitty "helped"
56 seconds in and I've suddenly stopped caring about the drive... you need to review your kitty cat!
Adis - Ad Whatever you say, sweetheart :D
Adis, it's quite obvious you're 12 or younger. Please refrain from posting and making yourself look like a dense headed idiot.
pixel girl cats are not obsolete so Daisy does not qualify.
Obsolete Kids It could be an experiment with changing the format!
6/10 it's OK
Why is this the only channel with nice people in the comments? Seriously. I hate youtube.
Because it is not very popular and it deals with retro technology. The bratty kids can't find it which keeps the comments free from brain-dead trolls. It seems we are all mature adults here, which is a plus.
Ikr?? LGR comment section is a bliss and refreshing. Love it.
+Muhammad Wyndham Haryata Permana yeah. a relief from the pewdiepie comment section *ugh*
I have found a lot on niche channels have better people in the comment section. Part of it is definitely an age thing were younger audiences avoid them so you don't get teenage or preteen trolls, another is that the trolls in them get ignored easier as there are more Internet savvy people on such channels, and the last (and saddest) is that LGR is a guy so you don't get the disgusting creeps on the channel.
anne m dont we all?
This video doesn't go into any depth on what the Bernoulli principle is or why this drive uses it. When I was in college a demonstration of the drive was given in one of my classes along with a description of how it works. The disk was flexible like a floppy yet had recording densities like a hard disk. This was possible because the spinning of the disk would bring it very close to the read/write head without actually touching it. That was also supposed to make it more resilient to taking shocks, which would literally crash hard drives when the head scratched the disk surface. The presenter then proceeded to demonstrate the drive's robustness by dropping it onto the floor from about a meter high.
The computer reported a drive read failure and it didn't recover. :D
At my first job we used to have tons of data on Bernoulli, they were soon replaced by Jazz/Zip which were soon replaced by THE CLICK OF DEATH!
Medium Error: Disk medium is not recognized or lacks track/sector indicators. Potentially repairable if you can find a low level format utility that will instruct the drive to rewrite the entire surface. Best bet would be finding early mac drivers for it, using those to initialize the disk; and then reformatting it from windows. Otherwise; find another disk!
find what? its been 5 years man come back and tell us find what
@@TheKingArabia
software from apple's early line of computers, the Macintosh or mac for short
You can duct tape the Hard drive onto the back of the cat, this way when it drops, it will be protected against a crash.
Read up on SCSI CDB opcodes, man.
Literally, if you just read the error number sent (25 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00) and looked up error 25 in an opcode table, you'd see that it's READ CAPACITY(10).
If you then read a little about that specific error, you'd see it's a code that's used for looking up the capacity of the disk. If it remains unreported, or is reported incorrectly and checked against, then proven to be incorrectly reported, it gets stuck at that error.
What you've got is a bad disk.
...which is also not that surprising considering the way we've all seen you play with magnetic media.
+Sean Reeves To be honest, it's an iomega product, you could probably damage the media by looking at it the wrong way.
+Sean Reeves
"...which is also not that surprising considering the way we've all seen you play with magnetic media."
I lolled when I read that and had nightmare flashbacks of someone, I think it was LGR, taking apart a priceless irreplaceable 8" hard disk in not-even-close-to clean room conditions, no gloves, dusty open room, not even a paper face mask to make it look like an attempt at not ruining it... I was half expecting him to draw a smile face with his skin oil on the platter. (I cant find it anymore, might be taken down)
If I had that drive, I'd get lexan-glass, build a box with some heppa filters and some extra large rubber gloves cut in, and a fan behind the filters for positive pressure in the chamber ...basically make a micro clean room before attempting a repair on such a rare piece of computer history...and then Id just repair a bunch of those old drives.
Most of them have damage at the BAM from not being parked, and then being tossed about(BAM/DIR needs to be moved to a different location, and old BAM set to LZ, or just flagged as bad)/seized motors that need very viscous grease so it doesn't run all over the substrate from centrifugal force.
I cant wait til we get removable media with Cats protecting against Disk crashes..
There's nothing to the right of the power switch. There's a silver screw to the left of it.
Now, if you mean the circular parallel port adapter input, I explained that in the video!
Wow I’ve reached the stage where I am watching old LGR and I’m just as nostalgic for old LGR as for the old beige box in the video.
Love his sense of humour, it's evolved but he's got the charm alright
You know when a Floppy Disk and an NES cartridge love each other so much and have a baby? This disk is what comes out of that...
Ruko Michiharu Its more of a Neo-Geo cart size.
First, I love your voice. Not sure of what I'm reminded, but it's an animated (comedic) character of some sort. Second, the 98SE machine shows 3:41 AM. If that's accurate, you are one dedicated geek...and I say that as a dedicated geek.
Did you ever get it working on any of your computers?
Nope, never did! Still looking for another cheap drive to try.
+Lazy Game Reviews Yeah it sounds like the drive could be broken given your other SCSI devices worked fine...
+Lazy Game Reviews Maybe send it to someoen else to get it fixed?
Maybe too late now, but y'know, I know a thing or two about the info from that SCSI diagnostic info shown on the last page. The "medium error" is your big flag. The drive is reporting that code, and it means that the drive thinks something is wrong with your _medium_ - i.e. your disk. It's a real good solid bet that another disk would work... eh?
It took a remarkable amount of Google research, but I eventually did find an answer to the burning question -- as older Bernoulli drives only had read-only support for earlier media (e.g. a 20mb drive could only read from 10mb disks, something of that sort), perhaps the 90MB was incompatible with the 230MB drive? Well, found that answer - books.google.com/books?id=oToEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA59&dq=bernoulli+ii+230mb+backwards&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTz7m91IzTAhXjylQKHZKsDBgQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=bernoulli%20ii%20230mb%20backwards&f=false - only the 44MB disk was read-only to your 230MB "Transportable" drive. So it's a good bet that your 90MB disk is just messed... and being as the Zip drive tech was also really easy to mess-up, it's quite likely the case. Also, possibly try cleaning the heads? Hmm...
SCSI is legendarily finicky! The slightest fault in a cable will break an entire drive train. This offset how reliable and fast it was when it worked.
See if you can find some stuff about the weird cassete drives that used VHS as a digital storage medium. I think they were popular in Russia.
I've got a VHS storage interface for PCs, actually! Planning to cover it in the future.
Lazy Game Reviews Nice! Will be happy to watch that when you get around to it. I love your channel!
Lazy Game Reviews please do I would love to see it
Nice, I've actually been using my DVHS deck for storage, I wonder what the capacity differences are between them.
That's possible?
you can have your cat in the videos :) besides your cat looks so adorable! :3
I'll be damned, where have you been my whole life? :P
Screwing around and showing off hardware I grew up with, namedropping TMNT chars while doing a perfect "DNF" era Duke.This whole playlist is like mainlining pure uncut nostalgia, I've owned (or at least spent many hours using) like 17 of these. Without my uncle and hacking suff like this I'd probably become a teen footballer or some other crap.;)
FWIW I've seen that error on other Beta drives and I'm thinking the disc is demagged and has lost the "partition table"/boot sector/first blocks with the disk geometry on them. It's dead Jim.
Anyways, cheers for that massive trip down memory lane.
Haha, well I'm glad you found me! Glad you're enjoying the vids :)
Well you know how the "retro" stuff on YT tends to be. It's mostly emulating classic games or making the same jokes mocking the Olden Days as everyone else. I half expected you to go for the "Hmm, let's crank up the volts and see how tough it is" route and I'm glad you didn't.
The 1980-90's was when home computers,PC-gaming got their start and the "artifacts" from that era are more like antiques than some garage sale junk and deserve more respect than most game "journos"and millenial hipsters on here can be bothered with. ;)
Sometimes, You sound like Duke Nukem, To me at least.
+Mygingerguy during his large keyboard review when he actually does a vague duke nukem impression it sounds really spot on.. If he actually "tried", he could probably do a pretty impressive voice.
He's a huge Duke fan.
Come get some!
Mygingerguy ftft
He has since voiced Duke in a racing/derby game, Gas Guzzlers Combat Carnage.
i served on submarines. we had these drives for a machine that analyzed sound sources. the drives seemed to fail 50% of the time. very frustrating. the common problem was that the plastic notched part at the center of the disk kept getting ripped worn, and chewed up by the drive. on a regular floppy that part is metal.
+Heed My Warning
You could say they were...
Cutting edge!
manictiger
oh, lord. i did not order a HAM sandwich with CHEESE.
your big issue was probably the unstable environment. Since even under very stable conditions there's lots of extra vibration and movement on any boat, even one that operates under water.
do a review on your cat as though it was odd ware or a game!! =3
The Campfire Headphase. Though I've been listening to Tomorrow's Harvest rather endlessly as of late, it is superb!
Duke Nukem at IBM just made my night. You are a wonderful person.
I still have my bernoulli drive circa 84. Weighs about 60lbs contains two 40mb cartridges. I would love to send it, how can I? BTW they are still functional
penguin44ca Message him on Facebook or Twitter, if he hasn't responded already. Worth a shot!
I'm curious, the disks are still good, even after being opened / exposed to Oxygen?
You should do OddWare on Zip Disks and SuperDisks.
maybe i was too young for that, or just never got to my country, but i've never seen any of those 'zip disks' myself!
They were popular early to mid 90s then they tapered off as writable discs and cd burners became popular. Not everyone had them though, people who liked to do stuff with graphics and video and other stuff you couldn't fit on a floppy disc. Most home computers didn't come with them as standard because most people only took a couple of documents or pictures off their computer. Compression programs even back then made it easy to split archives across multiple discs.
Of course usb sticks killed just about every other portable storage, me nor any of my friends have had an optical drive for about 5 years now. But burnable cds were astoundingly cheap, i remember my brother used to buy them in spindles of a hundred for 50 odd bucks. I knew people who had them but they all had a job to do, i didn't know anyone who used a pc at home with a zip drive to store or give/receive data to others, the disks were expensive. Cd burners also happily made duplicates of whatever you liked which damn sure never came on a zip disk.
A survivor Lol if CDrs were so bad you cant use them for business why do you keep using finished products for clients as an example? lel
No... Your computer was crap, not the CDR media or writer. If a computer was stable, it was easy to burn at 52x and fill a CDR in 2 minutes. But most people never learned they had to shut down most of the other crap running on the computer at the time. All the bloatware is what made burning discs troublesome.
In my early days of being a submarine sonar tech we had a piece of equipment called the BQR-22A Spectrum Analyzer that used these for storage. It had two built in drives.
Were you drunk while recording the voice for this?
He always speaks like that,
Thomasultimate1213 he's got balls of steel
How many half beheaded Garfield deep though ? Also, the UA-cam algorithm seems to be favoring your old videos on my end, which is sincerely pleasant.
Hey Clint, oldy but goody vid. Bonus for the cat. Keep it up. No wait, thats from 2013 so you have been keeping it up. Regardless, great vid......
In the late 90's I DJ'd for a radio station that used the Bernouli discs for sending programs, spots, jingles and music for the cluster's automation system. Unfortunately that computer system got rid of us local DJ's too (thanks Capstar, which was merged into Clear Channel).
I remember my uncle talking about the Bernoulli Box and explaining the Bernoulli Principle to me a few years before Iomega laid off him just because they didn't want to pay him benefits.
My brother assembled ZIP drives at the factory in Roy, UT. He asked if he could take one home and have the cost taken out of his paycheck. He was told no, so he went to a NEARBY store and bought a ZIP drive which had been manufactured in the Philippines. I hadn't been assembled correctly, so he had to use his work tools to take it apart and put it back together properly.
Just before its decline, Iomega shut down its primary facilities in Roy in order to move operations overseas and laid off a looooot of people.
I loved my 96-megabyte ZIP "100" drive for its large-capacity removable disks, but it was a piece of crap that broke down too easily. Also, apparently Iomega didn't think the internal drives were burning up fast enough, because when my brother helped me install mine, he pointed out that it was missing the protective dust covers that had previously been part of the assembly. (By this point he no longer worked for Iomega.)
As poorly managed as that company was, It's no wonder Iomega took a steep nose dive.
Kitty
As a PC technician, I remember the Bernoulli Box. I had forgotten them, but I remember wishing I had the cash to buy one until Zip drives came out. Remember them?
+RayF1948 I had a Jazz Drive, it was awesome because it could hold 1GB while my hard drive capacity was way less.
I have both the zip 750 and the 2GB Jaz .... I have a fascination with magneto media I suppose
Came for the oddware, stayed for the cat.
Man I hit a video from 7 years ago. It threw me through a loop at how far your production quality has come. Props to you
I would have liked to take a picture of Andre The Giant holding a Bernoulli 20MB Cartridge and see if the ratio seems similar to a regular size human holding a 3½-inch Disk.
It certainly does interest me! I actually have one already that I hoped to review, but it does not work. If I could get a working one, I would love to make a video featuring it.
I've got another one (230MB) on the way, plus I'll be messing with the settings on the SCSI card itself, so hopefully it'll be up and running eventually!
I used this drive for 15 years to boot up and store my samples and songs for my ASR 10 Keyboard Sampler. How many hard drives today will last 15 years? I still have it and it still works. I bought it in 2001.
When I was in college, I knew some people in the graphics design program and Bernoulli disks were all they used to transport stuff around. They were the only media both big enough and safe enough to use for that at the time. The later Zip and Jazz drives (I had both!) had larger capacities but were *far* less reliable and were shunned by pros in favor of just moving towards CDRs and CDRWs, and, finally, USB and SD flash cards.
Every video that I have watched from LGR has helped me pass some of my quizes and tests in my college studies. Kinda sad that my professor couldnt cover this in a 2 hour time frame in a day!
"Bernoulli" to me means those things they have at science centers that keep beach balls hovering above a cushion of air. I'm guessing this uses a similar idea to keep the read head a fixed distance from the disc's surface.
I dumpster-dived one of these and a few disks in NYC back in the mid-90's, never got it working. Every time I run across it way back in the piles of computer closet-fill and forgotten technology, my brain itches to know what's on those damn disks. My great introduction to the wonderful scuzzy world of SCSI.
….And...You fail. Take control over the " kitty"...
That is correct. The first one that I saw was back in 1984. The case was made to resemble an IBM PC. The cartridges were bigger than the one shown in this video. There were not a lot of backup solutions at the time. There were a few tapes, but most folks would just use floppy discs. Tallgrass made a hard disk tape combo, but I think the tape only only backup the drive in the same case.
Every once in a while I'm watching LGR and I see an I'76 box, or icon. Can't help but wonder why you haven't reviewed this absolutely awesome game.
The subject is very interesting, but I would love to see an updated version of this video. This video is hard to watch because it seems to ramble on. Your style has improved so much and there's probably not many other videos about this, so it might be worth while.
Man, your voice was weirdly harsh in this old video.
I thought I was about to watch an LGR Oddware video but then it became a cat video! It only goes to show that cats rule.
S-video out ! Woooo hoooo !
Used to play Duke Nukem 3D with S-video out on my Trinitron 27" TV ! it was amazing !
I know of a Rinry (RinryGameGame here on UA-cam). She's part of Retroware TV like I am, and yeah, she has quite the memorable voice.
iPhone? Pscht, Samsung Galaxy Note II represent!
But yeah, thanks for noticing, the quality is quite nice for vids like this.
I used to use the old, bigger Bernoulli Box carts with a Dubner DSS4 Digital Still Store. (circa 1989 to 1994) If you can find one of those or a Dubner Painter system, you'll have the big Bernoulli you always wanted, and a cool Moto 68020, or 030 based graphics system.
I just found this video. If I'm right, all you need to do is change the SCSI address of the drive to anything other than 0 or 7 (while everything is powered off). I still have my 'noulli 150, and it works just fine on my PowerMac 8500.
Macs used 0 for the internal hard disk and 7 for the Mac itself, that's why you couldn't use those for external devices. I doubt his internal hard disk uses SCSI, so 0 should be absolutely fine.
@@3rdalbum In this case, the adapter card most likely has the address of 0, therefore the conflict. Every SCSI device, be it a drive or controller has an address. I don't know if there was a Windows equivalent to the Mac utility SCSIProbe, but that would be helpful here.
I don't have much experience with Bernoulli drives, but I noticed when you had the disk open there were holes around the zero position. Some companies used to do that to old floppies as a way to "destroy" them. Just an idea as why that disk isn't working.
First your cat walks in the shot, then your iPhone makes a guest appearance in the shot! Tut tut!
In all seriousness though I'm liking the new camera. Looks very nice!
Cats generate a lot of static.
Sounds ideal for a magnetic storage device.
You need to terminate the drive on the backside of the Bernoulli drive using a SCSI terminator block that is compatible with the connector. No termination, no data.
As shown in the video, there IS a terminator installed.
Lazy Game Reviews I would also switch it to terminate as well.
6 year old video and I’m just like, is that sim city 3000 soundtrack?
When I first went to engineering school we had computers that used the Bernoulli drives, The smaller media like the one you have were very problematic and would cause various media read faults. I think from the limited diagnostic you show, that is the problem. The Larger disks seemed to not exhibit this problem as I have friends that have disks that are functional to this day.
That one's Daisy! The other is Shirley, she's 18 years old and cranky as balls.
SCSI uses port assignments similar to the I/O ports. if two SCSI drives are assigned to the same port, it will find the first one it encounters, which is going to be the internal SCSI drive.
You're assuming that the internal hard disk is SCSI. Doesn't look like it is.
I'm so glad he doesn't put this ridiculous announcer voice on anymore
I love that in your earlier videos your voice sounds much more like title character Rick from Adult Swim series "Rick and Morty" - alcoholic genius mad scientist. :) Great retrotech videos, btw - found your channel today and already subscribed as well after watching few videos. Cheers.
No, don't chase the cat away! Cats increase viewer engagement!
I have not, but my friend PushingUpRoses here on UA-cam did an excellent one. It covers about all I'd want to and more.
I need a status update on the transportable cat drive plz k tnx!
Correct, it's Clint :) But Cliff is a common mistake so eh
in 1985. 20mb was HUGE!!
this was 1994 he said.
We were putting one AutoCAD file per disk on them in 1985. The 20MB version was 8" floppy sized.
Perhaps this will help explain the inner machinations of the Bernoulli, taken via a textbook owned by a different Bernoulli:
"The LALR compiler is constructed via the following method. First develop a rigorous elective grammar. If the elements have NP completeness, the Krungie factor can be ignored."
I made that part of the video a couple days after I made the part where I was using the disk.
There are full reviews of two of them on my channel!
is incredible the power of music in our brains, when the video began I felt a sense of nostalgia. I remembered and this song is from sim city 3000 that I played for almost two decades!
They made the save button into a real thing!
Don't you love the weird mechanical noises old computer hardware make when they are in use.
I think the best part of this video, was the part where you said Bernoulli's Principle for like the 100th time, and on that particular one, I thought lol what if it was like, Bernoulli's Principal, like school principal. And gosh darnit you read my mind.
Don't copy that.....Bernoulli Drive
She's shown up in several of them over the years, so chances are she will again!
You should have more CATastrophic occourences in your new videos as well :)
I did, yes, and still got the errors shown.
Trust me, if I ever get my hands on a NeXT, I will review the crap out of it.
Why do big American guys have good voices?
Mmm, now that you mention it I'd love some bernoulli with meat sauce.
anyone else really want an odd ware episode on the cat?
Cat in the video +2000 views
I had one of these, never could get it to work.
You could switch the SCSI termination switch to terminate.
Or try a different SCSI address...
that fan is the most scsiest thing there, clean it :p
It might have been formated for Mac. I had one for my Mac512 back in the day. You might try a program called TransMac to read it on a PC. I have also seen these plugged into Atari ST and Commodore Amiga computers. While one formated for an ST should show up on a Win98 system, a disk formated for Amiga will not. You might also try bulk erasing the disk with a strong magnet and then try that format tool again.
Man I like your videos but pulling the repeater over and over makes me want to click on something else.....
At 4:32 - Bernoulli is crash proof...blah, blah, blah. NOPE! I installed OEM Bernoulli drives in industrial systems during the later 1980s. I informed Iomega about my industrial application. Iomega warned me thusly : "The Media Flexis Near The Head. With time the media (magnetic coating) will Flake Off!" That's right, the magnetic coating eventually disintegrates & breaks off in tiny bits after X flex cycles! My solution was to cache the directory tracks (The tracks most often read) to reduce actual flex cycles.
I did! A Canon 700D/T5i.