Josh, we just came back from our first trip in this camper! It is really, really nice. We put a true queen mattress on the bed, and it does not seem to be a problem. The tankless water heater will take some getting used to. We have not found anything we dislike about it. Thanks for the review, you hit it dead on!
We love this model-it will be our next camper. We would like to see a true queen bed, an electric fireplace heater, cabinet door/drawer access for the right-hand dinette bench storage, and the cabinet raised to the roof to eliminate the dust collection. These would make it perfect for! 🤩 Thanks for making awesome videos, Josh!
Would be my perfect RV if had eating bar and chairs facing window and could be used as desk as well. Yes to dropdown for tv! Love short Queen for more walking room. 😊
Creating the eating bar with chairs is easily done. When I did it I just figured out where the wall studs were, and built it same as a stick built house. Just made sure to not make it heavier than than whatever I removed. I was able to tell where the studs wet by looking for the staples in the wall.
I have the 2023 23 mle. For us it is pretty much perfect, small footprint with huge amount of storage. As far as stuff bouncing around in kitchen, i store heavy stuff down low, and lighter stuff like bowls, paper plates, etc up top and havent had problem with them moving. I absolutely do not want a tv that lowers down, i like it where it is. Mine has the 400i solar package with inverter and it is da bomb. I can watch tv without being plugged into power, or make a cup of coffee, and before i had a plug in at the house, the solar kept battery charged, for like 5 months, even with the outside fridge being on. Being a short person, i dont like how high the griddle is, makes its hard to cook, so I'm going to remove that and just have the fridge in there, besides the griddle isnt the greatest because it has a single, not h-type burner which cooks unevenly. I am also waffling between do i like the wardrobe slide, or would i like a smaller shower and have the wardrobe in the wall backed up to the shower, so i could have a window where slide currently is. And probably one other thing i didnt like was seating. I replaced it with a more comfortable recpro recliner. Ive seen some in our facebook group complain about the tankless water heater, but i loooooove it.. there is definitely a learning curve with that, but i can take a shower and not have to constantly cut water off and on. In travel mode you can get to everything except stove. As far as the queen bed, I'm short so I'm good with the camp queen, especially if it keeps the footprint smaller. Loving ours so far!!!
Hello Josh, my wife and I purchased a 23MLE and we love it. We did purchase it with the sofa queen bed instead of the theater seats. We do wish we had purchased it with the theater seats only because the sofa couch is truly truly Uncomfortable.
@@JoshtheRVNerd I a have owned 2 Cougar fifth wheels and had very little issues with them, but I need to look at your Artic Fox review, I have heard good things about them, but I have not researched them yet.
We have the 2023 23MLE and love it. They did learn from their mistakes and corrected a couple things. Like the outdoor kitchen door, ours opens side ways. We like our storage under the coffee bar. I put a 5 gal water bottle there. I love the recessed medicine cabinet. Great video.
It'd be nice if the recliners had small (sturdy) tables to swing up/in/over your lap, to eat off of, for snacks or a laptop. Even at home when I in my big recliner my laptop is on and next to me so even if watching TV I can go on the internet or work on something. I think I saw in a couple smaller trailers with no dinette some recliners that had side tables, and in the 23MLE it looks like they got the room on both sides of the theater seats. Also, don't know how easy it'd be to do, but it'd be cool if a bigger TV could slide down from inside the back of the cabinets above the dinette....for lower viewing from the recliners, watching the weather in the morning while having breakfast at the dinette or using it as a computer/iPad monitor if you working at the dinette. Would block light from that window too for better TV viewing. Just a suggestion. Thanks for the videos Josh, the 23MLE is my current fav!!!
You need 2 opening windows in the bedrooms and kitchen for boon docking in the heat That bedroom should also have an air conditioner as stock unless the RV sells for 15k or less as thats all its worth and stick the spare tire under the rig as you need that space in the front for a generator which is also missing
Generators in this size of fifth wheel are pretty uncommon from the factory but they do sometimes have space for one You usually need to get a larger size like a Montana-ish unit for those
@@stevecurry5785 In today's market things in this size range _typically_ don't have allowances for generators from the factory. Cougar, eagle, montana, avenue, reflection, etc Many are still gen capable, but the factory doesn't offer them. Regionally people camp differently. If you live in boondock country, then generator aftermarket upfits are likely more common
Thanks Nerd!! I prefer the dust catcher above the cabinets. Frankly, don't give me an option to overload especially up high. I can't be trusted. I really like the color-coded wires and the spare tire up in the front. Makes me remember to look at my spare before on the side of the road. And I love the Safety-rail for the entry door! And Thank you Keystone for the added inches on the camp kitchen slide to get the griddle away from the refrigerator door!!! And in the comparison to the Artic Wolf23MLE, I would choose this Cougar due to the bigger shower. Literally no doubt.
I will not buy any trailer with a camp queen. My wife is 5'10, I am 5'9" and we have two large dogs, so we need all the bed space we can get. I don't want to buy something I would immediately need to modify. So even if there is "space" for the full queen, i would always ask, well, why the hell not just put it in then.
Love the sofa/theater seating and table and chairs seating “options”👍the only negatives are the “standard” for no reason short queen bed and Dollar Store 4” fart fan😩and the dreaded pain the butt two headed sewer monster😂
would also like to see storage compartments open sideways so you do not have to stay hunched over to access the bays or open all the way with a magnet catch. great vid as usual.
@@JoshtheRVNerd Well the wife is a fan of the rear living floorplans. The 29RLI or go bigger to the 316RLS. We are both fans of rear kitchens like the 29RKS. As you can tell we love the cougar brand.
That floor flap looks like crap. I would have to bring a hair dryer to warm it up to get it to settle out. No to the bar. Yes to having the TV drop. I can deal with the short queen. I'm not mad about the travel mode access. I AM THE DOOR HANDLE HOOLIGAN.
I'm single and I'm a travelling constructiòn worker... I want a smaller Full size bed. Not a Queen. Give me more space for clothes, or maybe even a washer/dryer!!!
Hi Johs, just to let you know that we odered a 2024 23 mle after seing your review, we fell i love with the layout and you convinced us even more on it, but !!! We are so mad and disappointed at Keystone, they removed the in command system and changed the ac to a Furrion ac with out letting us know!!! After reserching on cable slides i realized the cables were installed wrong, i know you have nothing to do with this but just wanted to let you know what they are doing
I love this, as it is (except a pull out bed rather than a theatre seat.) I'm not bothered about a dinette, bar with stools is enough. I'm more about enough comfy seating for the amount of possible guests. Great amount of kitchen storage, but I'd definitely prefer the cabinets to reach the ceiling, it's just a dust trap above them otherwise. Nice size bedside space, and love having the table too there. A proper length bed makes more sense, rather than a shorter one. Good idea for the tv to drop down. I've seen some that are flat to the ceiling and they kinda flip down. Pretty good space when all closed up! Any update on Carlos?
True queen for sure! Lower the TV in the living room. Nice counter space in kitchen. Why don't manufacturers make pantry cabinet shelves adjustable? It would make the space so much more usable and customizable for the user. Oh and cabinets to the ceiling. Otherwise they are just dust collectors!
agree with the dinette removal and put a long narrow'ish bench type. i would also move the TV down to a tv lift station with the lift part being slightly more elevated from where you would eat to lesson chance of spilling down into the lift. I would add a window (that opens) to the hallway outside of bathroom. They might be able to even make the kitchen U shaped where dinette is and make a high top type of bar seating. oh and add a fire place in front of the tv lift like many do.
I really like the idea of the camp side bar. Also how about turn the bar into a Tele Vader and just put a nice size TV right there instead of having one swing down? Just a thought… I really do like this and I love the idea of the fireplace, this would be perfect for someone like me.
A really cool little 5th Wheel. Great living area and yeah, I would replace with a full queen. I would take the hide-a-bed not for the bed but for the sofa. For towing 3/4 ton, why fight a half ton, overkill for a tow vehicle is a good thing. I like that the interior is nice and bright overall, two thumbs up.
The kitchen cabinet and pantry that back up too the bathroom wall and the space above it should be used for storage from the bathroom side. Box it in and put some cabinet doors in the bathroom.
We've looked at a couple of these. I think this is the absolute best plan there is.. For us anyway. But... the quality of build is not what we would expect for a $50 - $60K coach... The door to the pantry wasn't square. How hard is that to get right? The wardrobe slide out doesn't go all the way out to the seal. A manufacturing problem? The backsplash next to the pantry, and the side of the shower were not glued flat. And, the cabinetry was very poorly constructed. So, if there were these obvious problems, what else is probably wrong? A little more attention to detail by Keystone, and this would be a killer 5th wheel!
i really like having the dinette in this setup, since you can use it as a bed or table even in road mode! For families with just one kid, really can't think of a better layout for always stop ready! I could see myself easily using the shoe garage and flip flop shop! I agree swivel for TV is not really needed as much as drop down for better viewing from the couch.
Went and looked at this rig again, this time at a dealership, and we were able to close it up. We found we could open the pantry cabinet and get stuff in and out. Easier for the DW as she is smaller than I. Large people I doubt could squeeze between the slide out frame and cabinetry. But it is doable!
I would put another upper cabinet where the TV is and put it in a lift against the wall and mount the dining bar in front of the TV cabinet. Pop up the bar for extra counter space or to eat. Pop up the TV for perfect viewing from theatre seats, or to use as a big monitor in desk mode. The shallow toe kick under the coffee station would be ideal for slide out pet feeding station.
I personally prefer the kitchen nook….no chair dragging on a bare floor and lots of storage under the bench. We took ours out for a shakedown and had no kitchen disasters with thing bumping around! Short Queen ..no problem.added a topper trimmed of the end of the foam and added it to the back of the mattress space. Pop it in and out.
The concerns with bouncing kitchen stuff stems mostly from the fifth wheels of yesteryear that were sometimes quite large, not well balanced, and rarely had upgraded suspensions I don't think the bouncing concerns on a shorter rig like this with upgraded suspension are nearly as concerning. But If I ever said that to an interested client it sounds like "yeah sure you'd say that you're just a dealer." So.. I kind of need to wait for folks like yourself to point it out. So THANK YOU! :) ☺
My biggest issue with slide access in road mode is not being able to load groceries into the fridge while curb parked at the grocery store, so being able to open a fridge without pushing a slide out is a handy thing to be able to do.
I see that solar panel sitting really high up, off the roof...? 🔍 The Cherokee Arctic Wolf version is nice too EXCEPT, those window shades..the stripes, they are hideous! Who ever looked at them prior to production and said " 👍YUP Perfect! Let's go with that design!" 🤮 then put them all throught all their various RV models.
Hello Josh, I'm an avid watcher of your video's sir. My wife and I recently upgrade from a Jayco Jay Flight 265 RLSW to the 2024 Keystone Cougar 23MLE. There isn't anything we don't like about it as of yet. I did do a great deal of research however because of all the controversy and comments about the half ton trucks not being able to handle it or the half ton model rv's. I am hoping that between the Chevrolet Dealership and the Keystone dealership that they both gave me the proper information on my truck. After giving the Chevrolet dealership my VIN number, I informed them I wanted to know if my truck had the payload capacity to carry that 5th wheel, they informed it did. The Keystone dealership also took the time not just telling me straight up that it could, in order to make the sale, but she too my vin number and ran it for me returning the same information as did Chevrolet, that my truck could handle it. I do not drive recklessly, nor we overpack. We take only what we need to enjoy ourselves on any given trip. I will keep you updated on a trip or two of ours just to let you know how we experience the tow of the 5th wheel itself with our half ton. Thank you for all your videos. We will not stop watching just because we have upgraded LOL. Stay Safe Everyone!
The bedroom needs to have a breeze through window on the drivers side to match the passenger side, then it would have been PERFECT!! I LOVE the corner seat shower/tub 😍 🤗 🤗 🤗 👏 👏 👏 🖒 🖒 ❤ ❤ ❤
True Queen, drop down tv, yes and yes! Are those some type of tie downs on the front? Would rather have a manual command center. Why can’t they cross plumb the grey tanks if they’re using the wire slide system for both slides now? Are they using the “Exacta- Slide”(hopefully) or the “Accu-Slide”(no thanks) System? All in all this is the 5th Wheel that checks almost all the boxes for us, especially the shoe cubby right inside the door🎉❤👍
No cold sandwich for you, Josh! That microwave IS accessible in road mode. 😁 PS: love this little RV. I have a late model 1/2-ton with an excellent tow package and payload capacity and still, it's a definite NOPE. No 1/2s ton need to be pulling ANY 5th wheel..no matter how cute and teeny they are.
I love Cougars, we almost bought the Cougar Sport instead of the Ibex, we just didn't have a truck at the time so we couldn't take it home. The Cougar 32BHS has my attention currently.
You had me Josh until I saw the cable slide.... mhew. One man's opinion. Great layout though and decent hitch weight. I still think Cougar knocks it out of the park with the side bed stands. That's where my fan goes!! Tootles!
Thanks Again Uncle Joshy!!! YES to the Bar style eating area and stools. FULL Queen bed would be better Drop down TV may be better too Very cool set up and functional Rig.
Really nice unit, and yes almost a perfect couples camper! Some observations. 1 -- A true queen bed would be so much better! 2 -- It baffles me why companies use a static center arm rest with their theatre seating when there are options out there to use instead 3 -- There is enough storage that a fireplace can fit on the pantry/storage wall ( at 7:55 in the video ) opportunity missed. 4 -- the carpet less slide flap looks horrible. If they get it to lay flat sure that's better than the marine woven material from a looks standpoint, otherwise I would rather have the marine woven material.
Yeah!!!! way to go Josh ! you talked about shock damping suspension and bonus points for shock damping pin box keep up the good work and just maybe more people will start asking for it from the factory.... Probably not but one can hope 😊 , Thanks Nerd
This one gets a ton right, but I agree with your suggestion of a convertible breakfast bar instead of dinette/dining set--it is so rare that we actually eat at our table any more. I also always want a second heat source that does not rely on propane, so placing a fireplace in that bar, putting the tv on eihter a higher power drop down or hiding it in a televator would be my ideal. It could also allow a larger "picture" window on the camp side. You asked about the bed size, and here is my view. I sleep in a King at home, and it is honestly too big. Queens beds are small, but the walk around space they leave in an RV is great. I feel the best balance is the Oympic Queen. That extra 6 inches is the same step as going from Full to Queen (discounting length), and it could make such a difference. It would impact bed-side storage, but this unit has plenty of storage space in the slide.
True queen for sure. On the wardrobe, I'd like to see them shorten the doors so they can be opened with the slide in. That would give it a 'well' in the bottom to keep things corralled. If you were locked in your RV with the only way out the emergency exit, does that window separate from the RV, or does it swing fully open for exit?
I was skeptical at first, but I do think this is almost perfect. I don’t like the lack of windows on the driver side in the bedroom, but I can do everything else this one offers. But did you misspeak when you said you can’t access the microwave in road mode? It appears to be accessible in the video.
True queen is a must! I looked at the model at a local camping show. One major miss is the exposed mdf cross cuts on some of the face frames. The two vertical members for the TV frame and the vertical members on cabinets along side the bed. That would drive me absolutely nuts.
Josh, I like the idea of an optional bar/chair configuration, but with the current window configuration I think the bar would be a little low. It would be below the kitchen counter height. And I think that they should include a full queen if there is room for it.
maybe like, an L counter so two stool to left as soon as you come in door and and enough space where on could be o a stool on the inside, opposite side of the counter, inside the kitchen space.
Afternoon Unka Josh...you know who from you know where here...the idea of a side bar/desk function would be preferable to the dinette. You could also get a medium sized table with folding legs ( you know, the "nerd preferred " type) and then you could use it as a "DDDDDdddddinofa" or outside as either a prep station or a sit down "fancy eatin' space"...lol....oh, an BTW, you mentioned that the microwave WASN't usable in road-mode, but I went back and looked 3 times and I'd sweare on a stack of whole wheat pancakes that I can see easy access to it if you can jiggle bang electric slide your bod back into the kitchen it's across from the fridge in't it?...anyway, great content as usual, please accept my best wishes for your pup ( I just watched that video earlier) and I hope the little gaffur is doing ok....that's all from me, Doc, way up in the VERY snowy today Great White North of southern Ontario, Canada....peace out to the Nerd Herd !
Hey Josh. We really like this size and floorplan. We know that Cougar is one of your favorite lines and that you give our feedback directly to Keystone. Do you think that they could make something like this size with a patio on the side or back and maybe replace the dinette with a bar and stools? We are really considering a small, couples fifth wheel that is half ton towable. We have a 2022 Ram that can pull that with no problem. Let us know what you think. Thanks and have a great day. By the way, just entered for that free beef jerky. Looks good. God bless! Kirk and Christine
It's not impossible but I know they're not considering anything like that for now. I've seen other builders attempt side patios in smaller RVs like this and none were met with success so many of today's builders wont do it
Cardinals version of this I LOVE in the living/kitchen area. 23RK I think it is. That being said, Id move things in like manner and make that window behind the dinette HUGE ... and throw in a window in the hallway. Be perfect then
We have the 2023 and love it. We modified the bed platform and added a full queen. Yes Keystone, why are you putting an RV queen in a Cougar?! Add another foot to the front end to make space to get around the front of the bed. Like how the recessed the medicine cabinet. One of my gripes about or 2023 is you hit your head when washing your face. I would suggest a smaller cabinet on the side and a flat mirror. There is no issue with items in storage in the rear kitchen. This camper is too short to have that issue. There just isn't a lot of rocking front to back. In-Command system is a dream. We will not buy another camper without it. We are actually looking at the new Alpine 3011CK but not hot on a bed slide. Keystone.... make the bed slides wider to accommodate nightstands!! Two sewer connections not a big deal. Generally when we are at camp we do not even hook up the forward sewer. The kitchen connection is more important to us as that grey tank fills up much faster than the bathroom. This is the perfect couples camper, hands down! Wander Til Lost www.youtube.com/@wandertillost7818
Good Video. We have a Grand Design reflection 226Rk, Rk stands for rear kitchen. It is 27’11”. The micro wave going down the road has opened and the glass plate inside fell out and broke. Also the refigerator comes open at times. So they do get banged around when traveling. We got the sofa sleeper option so when traveling with grandkids we have sofa sleeper along with the fold down dinette for sleeping. All n all we love it, although the things I would change are single gray water dump, and a rack n pinion slide. We had trouble with the schwintek slide and paid to have a Vroom slide installed. Much happier with the Vroom. We carry a blackstone griddle, so I prefer the door towards the rear in lue of the outdoor kitchen. The space in front where the batteries are is essisental for storage,. The spare tire on your cougar takes up a ton of usable storage space. My two cents worth.
16:27 Seems like the microwave should be accessible there in road mode. Can’t imagine anyone really needing to use the stove in transit, but if they swapped it with the cupboards under the microwave, facing the fridge, you’d only be losing access to the cupboards in road mode.
I should’ve clarified. It’s not so much that it’s inaccessible rather it’s in operable. Since without a large inverter, it won’t be powered up in transit.
I like it, but I have a question that I think I already know the answer to, thereby making this question a suggestion to the manufacturer. Can you get a lighter color backsplash? While it looks nice, I would want one that surrounds the kitchen (of course I’d need to replace all of the splash on both sides to match). The current color would make the kitchen look too dark if you added backsplash, but a lighter color would make it look nicer, plus the option of buying more material to surround the kitchen in backsplash would be nice as well.
While that table configuration is better it still needs a better support the eleminate the leg restrictions. I do not want a bar and stools. When I come in for the day I want something comfortable and a stool isn't it. However, the TV does need to swing down, still to high. There is enough room in the shower that a skylight is not needed so get rid of it. No need for another hole in thr roof.. Really like the seat in the shower. Great job on the side stands, we need room for the CPAP. Inverer plug is great for those CPAP also. Why would they put a short queen in this? Give me a real queen size bed. Storage in the bedroom is well done. The bathroonm is well executed also. Use the same material on the sides of the pass through as on tehe floor. Great floor plan and well executed.
I saw on my phone that forest river is laying off 83 people. I know it's nothing to do with this video. I really like how you show the good the bad and the ugly. Denis from Santa Rosa CA
We bought this camper a month and a half ago absolutely love the floor plan plan but we have had nothing but problems with the electrical can’t get several of the plug ins to work. It has been back at the dealership longer than we have had.
MFGs used to do that, but those layouts fell out of mass popularity. A lot of potential buys mentioned they didnt want to go up/down stairs at night to use the bathroom But I get what you're saying - lower deck baths are nice for that headroom
True queen!! And yes to the drop down tv,desk/ chair option with a fireplace
👍🏻
Josh, we just came back from our first trip in this camper! It is really, really nice. We put a true queen mattress on the bed, and it does not seem to be a problem. The tankless water heater will take some getting used to. We have not found anything we dislike about it. Thanks for the review, you hit it dead on!
That is awesome! I am kinda jealous!
We love this model-it will be our next camper. We would like to see a true queen bed, an electric fireplace heater, cabinet door/drawer access for the right-hand dinette bench storage, and the cabinet raised to the roof to eliminate the dust collection. These would make it perfect for! 🤩 Thanks for making awesome videos, Josh!
Would be my perfect RV if had eating bar and chairs facing window and could be used as desk as well. Yes to dropdown for tv! Love short Queen for more walking room. 😊
Creating the eating bar with chairs is easily done. When I did it I just figured out where the wall studs were, and built it same as a stick built house. Just made sure to not make it heavier than than whatever I removed. I was able to tell where the studs wet by looking for the staples in the wall.
@@KodyK2024 Thats admirable but I'm 66 and not so talented. 😂
Staples. 😅
@@tbec3011 Thats an idea!!! 🤣😂🤣
I have the 2023 23 mle. For us it is pretty much perfect, small footprint with huge amount of storage. As far as stuff bouncing around in kitchen, i store heavy stuff down low, and lighter stuff like bowls, paper plates, etc up top and havent had problem with them moving. I absolutely do not want a tv that lowers down, i like it where it is. Mine has the 400i solar package with inverter and it is da bomb. I can watch tv without being plugged into power, or make a cup of coffee, and before i had a plug in at the house, the solar kept battery charged, for like 5 months, even with the outside fridge being on. Being a short person, i dont like how high the griddle is, makes its hard to cook, so I'm going to remove that and just have the fridge in there, besides the griddle isnt the greatest because it has a single, not h-type burner which cooks unevenly. I am also waffling between do i like the wardrobe slide, or would i like a smaller shower and have the wardrobe in the wall backed up to the shower, so i could have a window where slide currently is. And probably one other thing i didnt like was seating. I replaced it with a more comfortable recpro recliner. Ive seen some in our facebook group complain about the tankless water heater, but i loooooove it.. there is definitely a learning curve with that, but i can take a shower and not have to constantly cut water off and on. In travel mode you can get to everything except stove. As far as the queen bed, I'm short so I'm good with the camp queen, especially if it keeps the footprint smaller. Loving ours so far!!!
Hello Josh, my wife and I purchased a 23MLE and we love it. We did purchase it with the sofa queen bed instead of the theater seats. We do wish we had purchased it with the theater seats only because the sofa couch is truly truly Uncomfortable.
Thanks for sharing
The good news is that furniture isn’t bolted down. At some point
you could swap it around for something else
True queen, drop down TV, desk w/ bar stools. But all in all, nice fifth wheel. I have a F250 SD gas. This would be a perfect RV for that truck.
Sounds like a good pairing for sure
@@JoshtheRVNerd I a have owned 2 Cougar fifth wheels and had very little issues with them, but I need to look at your Artic Fox review, I have heard good things about them, but I have not researched them yet.
We have the 2023 23MLE and love it. They did learn from their mistakes and corrected a couple things. Like the outdoor kitchen door, ours opens side ways. We like our storage under the coffee bar. I put a 5 gal water bottle there. I love the recessed medicine cabinet.
Great video.
Thank you!
It'd be nice if the recliners had small (sturdy) tables to swing up/in/over your lap, to eat off of, for snacks or a laptop. Even at home when I in my big recliner my laptop is on and next to me so even if watching TV I can go on the internet or work on something. I think I saw in a couple smaller trailers with no dinette some recliners that had side tables, and in the 23MLE it looks like they got the room on both sides of the theater seats. Also, don't know how easy it'd be to do, but it'd be cool if a bigger TV could slide down from inside the back of the cabinets above the dinette....for lower viewing from the recliners, watching the weather in the morning while having breakfast at the dinette or using it as a computer/iPad monitor if you working at the dinette. Would block light from that window too for better TV viewing. Just a suggestion. Thanks for the videos Josh, the 23MLE is my current fav!!!
Sofa-tables like that really are handy. MOST of the ones I see in the industry right are too flimsy for my comfort
23MLE is a monster. Last year it was among my favorite FWs. This year it still is but its sister the 260MLE caught my eye as well
You need 2 opening windows in the bedrooms and kitchen for boon docking in the heat That bedroom should also have an air conditioner as stock unless the RV sells for 15k or less as thats all its worth and stick the spare tire under the rig as you need that space in the front for a generator which is also missing
Generators in this size of fifth wheel are pretty uncommon from the factory but they do sometimes have space for one
You usually need to get a larger size like a Montana-ish unit for those
@@JoshtheRVNerd I see generators in 20 foot campers in the 70s
@@stevecurry5785 In today's market things in this size range _typically_ don't have allowances for generators from the factory. Cougar, eagle, montana, avenue, reflection, etc
Many are still gen capable, but the factory doesn't offer them. Regionally people camp differently. If you live in boondock country, then generator aftermarket upfits are likely more common
Thanks Nerd!! I prefer the dust catcher above the cabinets. Frankly, don't give me an option to overload especially up high. I can't be trusted. I really like the color-coded wires and the spare tire up in the front. Makes me remember to look at my spare before on the side of the road. And I love the Safety-rail for the entry door! And Thank you Keystone for the added inches on the camp kitchen slide to get the griddle away from the refrigerator door!!!
And in the comparison to the Artic Wolf23MLE, I would choose this Cougar due to the bigger shower. Literally no doubt.
Awesome TY!
If the cabinets and pantry went all the way up to the roof, more room in them. dust collector !!!
I will not buy any trailer with a camp queen. My wife is 5'10, I am 5'9" and we have two large dogs, so we need all the bed space we can get. I don't want to buy something I would immediately need to modify. So even if there is "space" for the full queen, i would always ask, well, why the hell not just put it in then.
I totally get it and I tend to think pretty similarly
Love the sofa/theater seating and table and chairs seating “options”👍the only negatives are the “standard” for no reason short queen bed and Dollar Store 4” fart fan😩and the dreaded pain the butt two headed sewer monster😂
would also like to see storage compartments open sideways so you do not have to stay hunched over to access the bays or open all the way with a magnet catch. great vid as usual.
Great idea!
happy to see the kitchen NOT in the slid, tow acceeess is amazing, is it me? or the bathroom medicine cabinet door opens theworng way
In person j didn’t feel that way but that’s me
Come on Josh!! We had our next camper picked out and here you go putting this beautiful cougar out! Thank you Josh!
lol it’s such good model
What were you thinking before?
@@JoshtheRVNerd Well the wife is a fan of the rear living floorplans. The 29RLI or go bigger to the 316RLS. We are both fans of rear kitchens like the 29RKS. As you can tell we love the cougar brand.
We picked ours up on Valentine’s Day…theatre seats are not so bad….i think we will keep them!
Nice I’m glad you like them
bar/desk with drop down tv or televator built into the bar
Second A/C is a must for us. Add that, and this is a strong contender for our next trailer.
Really dont like the theater seats. Otherwise, with that change, id buy this unit in a heartbeat.
👍🏻
The kitchen cabinets and pantry makes all the difference. Not to mention the counter space
Great layout and perfect size, just wish it had a rack and pinion slide for the big slide. jmo
I get it. Ty
Cabinets to the ceiling
👍🏻
That floor flap looks like crap. I would have to bring a hair dryer to warm it up to get it to settle out. No to the bar. Yes to having the TV drop. I can deal with the short queen. I'm not mad about the travel mode access. I AM THE DOOR HANDLE HOOLIGAN.
Door handle hooligan lol
I'm single and I'm a travelling constructiòn worker... I want a smaller Full size bed. Not a Queen. Give me more space for clothes, or maybe even a washer/dryer!!!
There are millions of us!!!
I don't know if I'm reading the brochure wrong but it says it comes with a platinum queen size mattress in the bedroom. IS THAT WRONG??
This industry takes liberties with what they call things
It’s a short queen.
If it’s a true 60x80 queen then they express that
Hi Johs, just to let you know that we odered a 2024 23 mle after seing your review, we fell i love with the layout and you convinced us even more on it, but !!! We are so mad and disappointed at Keystone, they removed the in command system and changed the ac to a Furrion ac with out letting us know!!! After reserching on cable slides i realized the cables were installed wrong, i know you have nothing to do with this but just wanted to let you know what they are doing
Ty Karl! Mind dropping me a quick review at g.page/r/CdPcitNVx2nDEAg/review for the helping hand?
I love this, as it is (except a pull out bed rather than a theatre seat.)
I'm not bothered about a dinette, bar with stools is enough. I'm more about enough comfy seating for the amount of possible guests.
Great amount of kitchen storage, but I'd definitely prefer the cabinets to reach the ceiling, it's just a dust trap above them otherwise.
Nice size bedside space, and love having the table too there.
A proper length bed makes more sense, rather than a shorter one.
Good idea for the tv to drop down. I've seen some that are flat to the ceiling and they kinda flip down.
Pretty good space when all closed up!
Any update on Carlos?
Last night was the first time we both felt he was turning a corner for the better so hopefully that continues
@@JoshtheRVNerdfingers, toes, legs and eyes crossed!
True queen for sure! Lower the TV in the living room. Nice counter space in kitchen. Why don't manufacturers make pantry cabinet shelves adjustable? It would make the space so much more usable and customizable for the user. Oh and cabinets to the ceiling. Otherwise they are just dust collectors!
Yes to the TV dropping and please fireplace next to the pantry also hide a bed couch.I would buy this today
agree with the dinette removal and put a long narrow'ish bench type. i would also move the TV down to a tv lift station with the lift part being slightly more elevated from where you would eat to lesson chance of spilling down into the lift. I would add a window (that opens) to the hallway outside of bathroom. They might be able to even make the kitchen U shaped where dinette is and make a high top type of bar seating. oh and add a fire place in front of the tv lift like many do.
Ty!
We DON'T need a drop down hanging wardrobe closet, INSTEAD, put in windows that open !
I really like the idea of the camp side bar.
Also how about turn the bar into a Tele Vader and just put a nice size TV right there instead of having one swing down?
Just a thought… I really do like this and I love the idea of the fireplace, this would be perfect for someone like me.
Glad you like it. I’d love to see more dining bars implemented
Terrific use of space in an under 30 foot RV. Only deal breaker is the short queen bed.
They’re working on ways to extend it but finding it may require a new nose cap design
A really cool little 5th Wheel. Great living area and yeah, I would replace with a full queen. I would take the hide-a-bed not for the bed but for the sofa. For towing 3/4 ton, why fight a half ton, overkill for a tow vehicle is a good thing. I like that the interior is nice and bright overall, two thumbs up.
I was sold till I saw the cable slide
The kitchen cabinet and pantry that back up too the bathroom wall and the space above it should be used for storage from the bathroom side. Box it in and put some cabinet doors in the bathroom.
We've looked at a couple of these. I think this is the absolute best plan there is.. For us anyway. But... the quality of build is not what we would expect for a $50 - $60K coach... The door to the pantry wasn't square. How hard is that to get right? The wardrobe slide out doesn't go all the way out to the seal. A manufacturing problem? The backsplash next to the pantry, and the side of the shower were not glued flat. And, the cabinetry was very poorly constructed. So, if there were these obvious problems, what else is probably wrong? A little more attention to detail by Keystone, and this would be a killer 5th wheel!
i really like having the dinette in this setup, since you can use it as a bed or table even in road mode! For families with just one kid, really can't think of a better layout for always stop ready! I could see myself easily using the shoe garage and flip flop shop! I agree swivel for TV is not really needed as much as drop down for better viewing from the couch.
Went and looked at this rig again, this time at a dealership, and we were able to close it up. We found we could open the pantry cabinet and get stuff in and out. Easier for the DW as she is smaller than I. Large people I doubt could squeeze between the slide out frame and cabinetry. But it is doable!
ooh that's good to know!
I would put another upper cabinet where the TV is and put it in a lift against the wall and mount the dining bar in front of the TV cabinet. Pop up the bar for extra counter space or to eat. Pop up the TV for perfect viewing from theatre seats, or to use as a big monitor in desk mode. The shallow toe kick under the coffee station would be ideal for slide out pet feeding station.
I like it.. would have to really think about the 2 sewer outlets. I have a Toyota tacoma sooooo couldn't pull it anyway
🎉#NerdHerd..... Loving the new layout.....
I personally prefer the kitchen nook….no chair dragging on a bare floor and lots of storage under the bench.
We took ours out for a shakedown and had no kitchen disasters with thing bumping around!
Short Queen ..no problem.added a topper trimmed of the end of the foam and added it to the back of the mattress space. Pop it in and out.
The concerns with bouncing kitchen stuff stems mostly from the fifth wheels of yesteryear that were sometimes quite large, not well balanced, and rarely had upgraded suspensions
I don't think the bouncing concerns on a shorter rig like this with upgraded suspension are nearly as concerning. But If I ever said that to an interested client it sounds like "yeah sure you'd say that you're just a dealer."
So.. I kind of need to wait for folks like yourself to point it out. So THANK YOU! :) ☺
My biggest issue with slide access in road mode is not being able to load groceries into the fridge while curb parked at the grocery store, so being able to open a fridge without pushing a slide out is a handy thing to be able to do.
That’s why I take the extra time to show them in that configuration!
actually you can open the fridge doors without putting the slide out. I just did it this afternoon
Back window is one of the things checked off on the check list. Reduces claustrophobia and I get to see the lake when we are set up!
I see that solar panel sitting really high up, off the roof...? 🔍 The Cherokee Arctic Wolf version is nice too EXCEPT, those window shades..the stripes, they are hideous! Who ever looked at them prior to production and said " 👍YUP Perfect! Let's go with that design!" 🤮 then put them all throught all their various RV models.
Panel mounts can allow for extra airflow. They work better when not hot which is ironic since they’re made to set in the sun
Hello Josh, I'm an avid watcher of your video's sir. My wife and I recently upgrade from a Jayco Jay Flight 265 RLSW to the 2024 Keystone Cougar 23MLE. There isn't anything we don't like about it as of yet. I did do a great deal of research however because of all the controversy and comments about the half ton trucks not being able to handle it or the half ton model rv's. I am hoping that between the Chevrolet Dealership and the Keystone dealership that they both gave me the proper information on my truck. After giving the Chevrolet dealership my VIN number, I informed them I wanted to know if my truck had the payload capacity to carry that 5th wheel, they informed it did. The Keystone dealership also took the time not just telling me straight up that it could, in order to make the sale, but she too my vin number and ran it for me returning the same information as did Chevrolet, that my truck could handle it. I do not drive recklessly, nor we overpack. We take only what we need to enjoy ourselves on any given trip. I will keep you updated on a trip or two of ours just to let you know how we experience the tow of the 5th wheel itself with our half ton. Thank you for all your videos. We will not stop watching just because we have upgraded LOL. Stay Safe Everyone!
Trust but verify is a really smart policy when it comes to towing safety
The bedroom needs to have a breeze through window on the drivers side to match the passenger side, then it would have been PERFECT!!
I LOVE the corner seat shower/tub 😍 🤗 🤗 🤗 👏 👏 👏 🖒 🖒 ❤ ❤ ❤
That's a great idea!
Had to pause the video to say... 😂 "...'road violence'..." 🤣🤣🤣
with an 8 foot bed short cab 3/4 ton, this would be a lovely towing setup
True Queen, drop down tv, yes and yes! Are those some type of tie downs on the front? Would rather have a manual command center. Why can’t they cross plumb the grey tanks if they’re using the wire slide system for both slides now? Are they using the “Exacta- Slide”(hopefully) or the “Accu-Slide”(no thanks) System? All in all this is the 5th Wheel that checks almost all the boxes for us, especially the shoe cubby right inside the door🎉❤👍
No tie downs up front but easily added
100% would prefer the bar and chairs or stools just don't need a table and chairs. And it would have so much more space
I agree!
I’d love a bar setup
No cold sandwich for you, Josh! That microwave IS accessible in road mode. 😁 PS: love this little RV. I have a late model 1/2-ton with an excellent tow package and payload capacity and still, it's a definite NOPE. No 1/2s ton need to be pulling ANY 5th wheel..no matter how cute and teeny they are.
I tend to agree
I have the Cougar 27RLS which has a better layout imo.
The 27SGS?
Not trying to be semantical
Just making sure I’m thinking of the right one
@@JoshtheRVNerd No, it's the 2018 27RLS.. 30ft. 3 slides.
I love Cougars, we almost bought the Cougar Sport instead of the Ibex, we just didn't have a truck at the time so we couldn't take it home. The Cougar 32BHS has my attention currently.
That’s a solid model that just keeps on keeping on
I’d like bar stools for a 260 mile….there again… I think the chairs look clunky
How's Carlos today?
A risky.. better we think
Last night and again this morning were the first times we’ve seen what we feel are improvements so.. fingers crossed
@JoshtheRVNerd Well I'm thinking about him.
You had me Josh until I saw the cable slide.... mhew. One man's opinion. Great layout though and decent hitch weight. I still think Cougar knocks it out of the park with the side bed stands. That's where my fan goes!! Tootles!
👍🏻 ty
Thanks Again Uncle Joshy!!!
YES to the Bar style eating area and stools.
FULL Queen bed would be better
Drop down TV may be better too
Very cool set up and functional Rig.
😊
Really nice unit, and yes almost a perfect couples camper! Some observations. 1 -- A true queen bed would be so much better! 2 -- It baffles me why companies use a static center arm rest with their theatre seating when there are options out there to use instead 3 -- There is enough storage that a fireplace can fit on the pantry/storage wall ( at 7:55 in the video ) opportunity missed. 4 -- the carpet less slide flap looks horrible. If they get it to lay flat sure that's better than the marine woven material from a looks standpoint, otherwise I would rather have the marine woven material.
So.. I am sitting here agreeing with everything you’re saying. Spot on
Wish there was an option to swap the north wall lower cabinets with an electric heater
Yeah!!!! way to go Josh ! you talked about shock damping suspension and bonus points for shock damping pin box keep up the good work and just maybe more people will start asking for it from the factory.... Probably not but one can hope 😊 , Thanks Nerd
And now standard ABS for safety too
Drop down TV ✅ True queen bed ✅ Losing the dinette ❎
That’s just me though. I’m old fashioned. 😊
👍🏻
This one gets a ton right, but I agree with your suggestion of a convertible breakfast bar instead of dinette/dining set--it is so rare that we actually eat at our table any more. I also always want a second heat source that does not rely on propane, so placing a fireplace in that bar, putting the tv on eihter a higher power drop down or hiding it in a televator would be my ideal. It could also allow a larger "picture" window on the camp side.
You asked about the bed size, and here is my view. I sleep in a King at home, and it is honestly too big. Queens beds are small, but the walk around space they leave in an RV is great. I feel the best balance is the Oympic Queen. That extra 6 inches is the same step as going from Full to Queen (discounting length), and it could make such a difference. It would impact bed-side storage, but this unit has plenty of storage space in the slide.
Awesome Ty so much!!
True queen for sure. On the wardrobe, I'd like to see them shorten the doors so they can be opened with the slide in. That would give it a 'well' in the bottom to keep things corralled. If you were locked in your RV with the only way out the emergency exit, does that window separate from the RV, or does it swing fully open for exit?
Emergency exit windows can flip open completely
I was skeptical at first, but I do think this is almost perfect. I don’t like the lack of windows on the driver side in the bedroom, but I can do everything else this one offers. But did you misspeak when you said you can’t access the microwave in road mode? It appears to be accessible in the video.
May have misspoken
Without an inverter it won’t be operational though at a travel stop
True queen is a must! I looked at the model at a local camping show. One major miss is the exposed mdf cross cuts on some of the face frames. The two vertical members for the TV frame and the vertical members on cabinets along side the bed. That would drive me absolutely nuts.
Ty
Sorry I fat fingered it thereflection is 26’11”
Josh, I like the idea of an optional bar/chair configuration, but with the current window configuration I think the bar would be a little low. It would be below the kitchen counter height. And I think that they should include a full queen if there is room for it.
TY Noel!
That flooring is just high enough to get my toe jammed under it and rip the flooring maybe damage my toe.
Camp side bar/desk would be amazing. I think I would try to remove the dinette if possible.
For the TV it would be cool to hang a projector there.
maybe like, an L counter so two stool to left as soon as you come in door and and enough space where on could be o a stool on the inside, opposite side of the counter, inside the kitchen space.
I’d love a big bar there
I love the kitchen. I really do not like the center sink island. It takes up too much space!!
Is it possible to have the theater seats that turns into a bed? I've seen that before. I'd prefer this.
Probably not impossible but I’ve not seen rv builders make them
It’s perfect but needs a king bed
Afternoon Unka Josh...you know who from you know where here...the idea of a side bar/desk function would be preferable to the dinette. You could also get a medium sized table with folding legs ( you know, the "nerd preferred " type) and then you could use it as a "DDDDDdddddinofa" or outside as either a prep station or a sit down "fancy eatin' space"...lol....oh, an BTW, you mentioned that the microwave WASN't usable in road-mode, but I went back and looked 3 times and I'd sweare on a stack of whole wheat pancakes that I can see easy access to it if you can jiggle bang electric slide your bod back into the kitchen it's across from the fridge in't it?...anyway, great content as usual, please accept my best wishes for your pup ( I just watched that video earlier) and I hope the little gaffur is doing ok....that's all from me, Doc, way up in the VERY snowy today Great White North of southern Ontario, Canada....peace out to the Nerd Herd !
What I think I meant was it isn’t powered normally unless you get their 3k inverter 660w solar pkg
@@JoshtheRVNerd Thank you sir...that explains it to me perfectly...and make sense, no power, no worky...lol...stay warm and safe Josh...Doc out !
Like #888 ... the angels are watching 👼 lol
Hi Josh .. Going to watch now. I already like carpetless and booth OR dinette. ❤
I don't get the #888 reference - could you clue in the clueless here?
@@JoshtheRVNerd it's superstition, folklore I guess lol (🤷♀️) numbers in 3's mean angels are near. 🤭 Sorry Josh lol
@@PrettySweetPea ah cool. I'll have to look at that
There are many different ways to configure
I love the floor to ceiling pantry
I trust that’s what you meant… I keep paper plates in there.. so access to paper plates is still #snacktastic🤭
👍🏻 you got it
Hey Josh. We really like this size and floorplan. We know that Cougar is one of your favorite lines and that you give our feedback directly to Keystone. Do you think that they could make something like this size with a patio on the side or back and maybe replace the dinette with a bar and stools? We are really considering a small, couples fifth wheel that is half ton towable. We have a 2022 Ram that can pull that with no problem. Let us know what you think. Thanks and have a great day. By the way, just entered for that free beef jerky. Looks good. God bless!
Kirk and Christine
It's not impossible but I know they're not considering anything like that for now. I've seen other builders attempt side patios in smaller RVs like this and none were met with success so many of today's builders wont do it
This is nice!!
Cardinals version of this I LOVE in the living/kitchen area. 23RK I think it is. That being said, Id move things in like manner and make that window behind the dinette HUGE ... and throw in a window in the hallway. Be perfect then
Love it only thing is sewer being dbl but all the + makes me potential say yes
I love the layout enough I could certainly deal with it!
True queen and the bar option would be perfect for couples with the drop down tv.
Yesssss
We have the 2023 and love it. We modified the bed platform and added a full queen. Yes Keystone, why are you putting an RV queen in a Cougar?! Add another foot to the front end to make space to get around the front of the bed.
Like how the recessed the medicine cabinet. One of my gripes about or 2023 is you hit your head when washing your face. I would suggest a smaller cabinet on the side and a flat mirror.
There is no issue with items in storage in the rear kitchen. This camper is too short to have that issue. There just isn't a lot of rocking front to back.
In-Command system is a dream. We will not buy another camper without it. We are actually looking at the new Alpine 3011CK but not hot on a bed slide. Keystone.... make the bed slides wider to accommodate nightstands!!
Two sewer connections not a big deal. Generally when we are at camp we do not even hook up the forward sewer. The kitchen connection is more important to us as that grey tank fills up much faster than the bathroom.
This is the perfect couples camper, hands down!
Wander Til Lost
www.youtube.com/@wandertillost7818
Good Video. We have a Grand Design reflection 226Rk, Rk stands for rear kitchen. It is 27’11”. The micro wave going down the road has opened and the glass plate inside fell out and broke. Also the refigerator comes open at times. So they do get banged around when traveling. We got the sofa sleeper option so when traveling with grandkids we have sofa sleeper along with the fold down dinette for sleeping. All n all we love it, although the things I would change are single gray water dump, and a rack n pinion slide. We had trouble with the schwintek slide and paid to have a Vroom slide installed. Much happier with the Vroom. We carry a blackstone griddle, so I prefer the door towards the rear in lue of the outdoor kitchen. The space in front where the batteries are is essisental for storage,. The spare tire on your cougar takes up a ton of usable storage space. My two cents worth.
16:27 Seems like the microwave should be accessible there in road mode. Can’t imagine anyone really needing to use the stove in transit, but if they swapped it with the cupboards under the microwave, facing the fridge, you’d only be losing access to the cupboards in road mode.
I should’ve clarified. It’s not so much that it’s inaccessible rather it’s in operable. Since without a large inverter, it won’t be powered up in transit.
I like it, but I have a question that I think I already know the answer to, thereby making this question a suggestion to the manufacturer. Can you get a lighter color backsplash? While it looks nice, I would want one that surrounds the kitchen (of course I’d need to replace all of the splash on both sides to match). The current color would make the kitchen look too dark if you added backsplash, but a lighter color would make it look nicer, plus the option of buying more material to surround the kitchen in backsplash would be nice as well.
Leave the theatre seats and replace dinette with tri-fold sofa? Great RV.
True Queen please.
Nice bedroom storage.
Great bath!
This might serve as a nice full time RV.
Hi Josh. I love this rv for a small rv is big inside.love the colors. What’s the m materials for the cadets. Love the video!!
Sorry.. materials for the cadets?
@@JoshtheRVNerd yes
We put a hamper in the secret cove y the toilet
While that table configuration is better it still needs a better support the eleminate the leg restrictions. I do not want a bar and stools. When I come in for the day I want something comfortable and a stool isn't it. However, the TV does need to swing down, still to high. There is enough room in the shower that a skylight is not needed so get rid of it. No need for another hole in thr roof.. Really like the seat in the shower. Great job on the side stands, we need room for the CPAP. Inverer plug is great for those CPAP also. Why would they put a short queen in this? Give me a real queen size bed. Storage in the bedroom is well done. The bathroonm is well executed also. Use the same material on the sides of the pass through as on tehe floor. Great floor plan and well executed.
I saw on my phone that forest river is laying off 83 people. I know it's nothing to do with this video. I really like how you show the good the bad and the ugly. Denis from Santa Rosa CA
We bought this camper a month and a half ago absolutely love the floor plan plan but we have had nothing but problems with the electrical can’t get several of the plug ins to work. It has been back at the dealership longer than we have had.
Wow I haven’t seen that from these but I don’t doubt you. I hope you’re able to get the gremlins out
Full side queen, we aren’t all short
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King! That's what I love best about my 22mls
is there a family friendly 5th wheel under 30'? We have a special needs child that we need room for, but would like a smaller, lighter 5th wheel?
I dont really know of many. Most FW bunks tend to start around 35ft from what. I see
Love the camp side bar idea!!!!
Glad you like it!
Carpetless flap unacceptable
Sure wish cougar line would make a short fifth wheel with bath in the back for a tall guy.
MFGs used to do that, but those layouts fell out of mass popularity. A lot of potential buys mentioned they didnt want to go up/down stairs at night to use the bathroom
But I get what you're saying - lower deck baths are nice for that headroom