Nemesis reacts to 'The Biggest Problem in League of Legends' by Azzapp
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- Опубліковано 23 лют 2024
- Check out @Azzapp and the video: • The Biggest Problem Wi...
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#Nemesis #leagueoflegends
Check out Azzapp and the video: ua-cam.com/video/iWLo4yTdKfg/v-deo.html
Note: This isn't a full reaction on his video as I don't want to take away his effort! Make sure to check out his channel and the full video to get better context on the topic!
The REAL problem of league are different, are mostly based on a code-level.
One of them is that, if u are being chased, your champ range is REDUCED. While if u are Chasing ur champ range is INCREASED.
I don’t know WHY it’s happening, but this stuff is just stage 5 c for me. Im kiting, Im doing good, BUT NOP, THE F;€372?ing Low Range Vayne outranged my Ashe in the perfect edge of my auto, i COULD NOT auto while she could.
70% my losses are from teammates surrendering... at 15
they shouldnt do more buffs then nerfs because if everything gets overbuffed its just COUNTER PICK META
and game shouldnt be just counter pick or dont play cuz its just FK STUPID
ow you play X champion and they picked Y champion? and you main your champ? pff change it or lose it instantly
its way better to nerf more or at least not just purely overbuff everything because game balance will be changing like rn
there was good example last year with nidale rengar kha and something else
and nidale was really powerfull but had 50% winrate because rengar and kha and something else where SO OP that they were holding her winrate
what did riot? they nerfed broken champions and BUFFED at the SAME time nidale so she became super broken champ
they never look at winrates and how that efect other champions
and think that game DMG crip is so high that we should just nerf it so there is less counter pick meta and its WAY easier to balance
but ofc phreak and design team and balance team wont fix the game it will be worse and worse and ppl who play older champions will have to change their champions or lose more even if they are good players because new champs will not get fixed or nerfed because money and many other stuff but i dont want to waste more time here cuz nobody wants to listen to someone who cares about game
but vayne have more ms and dashes thats why she can hit you even if you have 50 more range@@a.carnevale4910
3:50 ffing those 5 games would be extremly stupid because those games are the most enjoying and hard to carry and if you win those games that is something really good cuz you won almost unwinnable its like beating extremly hard boss in soulslikes games while you have 0 armor and 0hp
its so exiting to win games that are barely winable its like
xpeke with kassadin or faker famous zed outplay
those moments happens most of the time in those 5 games i wont fk ff becouse im bitch
1:35 I thought I liked more buffs too. But in the end all buffs are dmg increase, which is what after years led to everyone exploding with 2 spells. I prefer nerfs.
Both. Both is good.
Imagine Miss Fortune gets nerfed but KogMaw get's buffs instead, shifting the meta again. Seeing champs that you usually never see is so nice
@@yoshi596 True however they could also just figure out a way to buff champs without buffing damage
coming as a 10 year dota2 player who switched to league as friends play league.
FF culture is not nearly the same in dota, and dota has 60 minute games ALL the time, 90 minute even. you'd think that dota players would open mid at 15-20 if what you say were true, as the games are often over twice the length and more time to "waste".
The reason why people give up at 15 is because riot has given them the tools to quickly give up. The tools and culture has given rise to a mass surrender mentality. The problem is players wanting to give up, not that 4 people have given up and the 5th doesnt want to.
Some of my favourite games of all time has been insane comebacks. People don't learn how to win from behind because they are given easy tools to surrender
No the tools aren't the problem and this is easily proven.
League once had much longer games as well, but due to the way Riot balanced the game, game time has been shorten by insane amounts.
A long game in League was something around 60 minutes back then, it was very common games went on for 35 to 45 minutes.
At those times, the ff vote at 20 already existed the way it does today.
The only thing that changed was the introduction of the vote at minute 15 to surrender.
But this came because games weren't lasting as long as before, the average game time went down by like 10-12 minutes and so the ff 15 vote was introduced.
League just feels much more terrible to play from behind as it used to be.
So if snowball is at the same levels as before, if we now have much more comeback mechanics in the game, how can it be that people perceive the game as so much worse?
My assumption is, its not the ff vote, its not just the snowball, its the way roles/items and champions are balanced out.
There are champs I love to play that I would even touch at all today due to how insane awful it feels to play them.
They are not necessarily weak, they just feel awful to play.
Riot does claim snowball is on the same level as in season 7/8 but this is actually hard to imagine.
The problem is, the way people snowball has changed drastically since season 7/8.
Back then there were no tower plates, you gained less Gold/XP per minion etc.
Runes like Treasure Hunter weren't existing so based off of that, snowball must be faster.
But why does Riots data say something else?
I am very certain its because of comeback mechanics in the game.
Those didn't exist back then.
The problem with them is, you claim the bounty by killing the enemy which means, if you are unlucky, the support gets to claim it.
This means, if you were for example 3k Gold behind, you collect 3x a 700 gold bounty, you are instantly even in gold, so you made the comeback statistically!
But in reality, if those 3k Gold went into the pocket of your Janna Support instead of your Vladimir Midlane, you may now be even in Gold but have it laying on a (relatively speaking) useless role as Support.
Azzapp said it with champion strength in his video, Riot didn't nerf what was broken, they buffed what was weak to be broken and so average champion strength has increased.
The same applies to snowball in my opinion!
They didn't nerf the usual way of how you can snowball (they even gave us more ways to do so lol), they only increased the ways of how you can get a comeback.
So that's why League feels so bad, the snowball is still heavily there, you are now only presented with more options to effectively punish it.
But punishing snowball means you depend more on other people in your team and well, if those were the reason enemies snowballed in the first place, guess how the game will look like :D
To be fair, Dota2 is a really comebackable game. Because the game is too complicated, even pros dont have full grasp of the game, the gold swings are crazy when you sweep the enemy team. The use of buybacks in fights etc. In league, 10k gold diff is pretty much a death sentence in most cases.
Like, isnt OG the biggest example? TI8 finals, they didnt dominate a single game, they always did a crazy comeback to win it.
@@Anonymous-td9fl LGD giga threw trying to push high twice and their morale got broken, league people in 99% of elo people giga throw all the time. it could be that the perception is you cant come back because people FF all the time and have no experience in coming back from a losing position like camping a bush for a yolo play befopre FF
@@dumpsterplayer2700 Proves my other point, regarded as the BEST TEAM and MOST LIKELY TO WIN TI, made a huge mistake. The game is hard, easier to overlook a mistake.
@@dumpsterplayer2700 It's giga easy to play safe in LoL, there's no crazy gap closers like in dota2 to burst the squishy, all cc's are somewhat dodgeable or short ranged. If you're determined to play safe, only a crazy amount of set-up and mind-game can disturb that at the high level. High-elo LoL games are purely dependent on enemy making mistakes, which isnt rarely seen, while in dota2, you can make the comeback purely by timings and buyback plays, and much more mistakes.
Though I agree ff shouldnt exist in low-elo. Cuz they WILL run it down.
Tbh i think the problem is not surrender itself but giving up, like bot gets ganked and their ad gets a double and then they say oh we lost lets just run it, and go on to go 0/5 0/6 instead of playing it in a way to minimize losses while the rest of the team tries to compensate because everyone has Him mindset and think if i am weak the game is lost ( myself included )
imo the biggest problem is that playing in a way to minimize losses and playing from behind is very unenjoyable to most people. why do people give up? not because they care so much about winning, but because they wanna have fun. its no fun afk farming at tower and being fcked over by anyone from the opponent team. i rather ff and lose then be stuck in an unfun game i could win.
@@user-tp5jm7th3n Absolutely this, thank you. But on the contrary, I think it's fair to acknowledge that thinking like this is biased because if we feel we're stuck in games that are not enjoyable, let's ask ourselves "why do I play the game ?" in the first place. Most likely we'll have no rational answer, we're just used to be playing it and as it changed over time, we continue playing while not enjoying the experience as much. So either we should adapt to the reality of what the game feels like nowadays, or play less and eventually just stop playing League.
@@user-tp5jm7th3ngo to norms child. You don't have the ranked grindset
@@user-tp5jm7th3n They should play ARAM then.
that's because there's an option to surrender, they have an easy way out so they can stop trying the moment they get frustrated with minimal consequences, just FF and go next and hope for a good game, if there was no FF system they will be force to play the bad game that they created, so they will be less likely to mindlessly throwing the game
FF should be silent. If i want to surrender. I go in the menu and tick a flag. If enough people on my team also tick the flag our team surrenders. No annoying popups for everyone. The only time there should be a popup is with remakes.
that's genius. Actually the best solution. You can remove the tick if you decide it's winnable too
Genuinly a good idea
Dumb idea will just forget to untick
@@mmredfs361 if the others are willing to win, it doesn"t matter. It's an option so people like you wouldn't say "why riot did this and doesn't make me undo the surrender now, uh RIOOOOT"
surrender should be removed from elos below plat, and those who go afk in this games should get punishment by being put to iron5, so in iron5 should play only afk'ers and every division up there should be less afk'ers
PS. same as there is no Duo above Dia, there should be no Surr button below plat, because it is abused by trolls
Number 1 thing that ruins soloq, everyone thinks they are the main character and doesn't understand there are 4 more players in their team.
So yeah in short, EGO.
not really , we do understand that there are 4 more monkeys in the team and thats why ff asap
saddest part is riot has been embracing the singleplayer mentality too much this last season. now there's deafen, extreme ping timeouts, less pings, etc.
so ofc people are gonna have this protagonist syndrome, cause their "teammates" are like npcs (not in the terms they are bad, just that you can't almost interact with them)
@@HoodedStoriesChannel You being in the same rank as them, yet thinking you're better than them, is exactly the problem Videoini described
You dont understand that there are wintraders and boosted accounts and tilted players that just want to run it . I play in Masters/GM EUW and its very different to be matched with a 65wr Master than with a 45wr one. Just because we are in the same game doesnt mean we are the same skill. Matchmaking this season is trash. Plus you can tell right away who is not playing to win , if you see an otp fiora trying out garen for the first time vs an 65wr master player playing his main champ and he is 0/3/0 , 2 lvls down and 50 cs ofc im gonna spam ff. And this is way more common that you'd think even in High diamond/Master. Oh and I forgot about autofill , its fun having a soraka supp otp being filled to jng vs a master player , I surely wanna play this game and thanks riot for removing names in champ select + not letting us have more dodges. Some games are straight up doomed from the start , simple as that.
plus about your "ego" point if the majority doesnt want to play the game further you are the delusional main character that keeps them hostage believing that your inner faker will come out and you will 1v9 somehow.
Funny this video popped up after i had 2 winnable games where my team surrenderd and they were saying "you have too much time in your life" bro wtf
And then those ppl qed up for 15 more games probably
One game: Dota 2. No surrender. Even if you hate your team to the guts, you will play. If you don't - you will face consequences. So considering Heavy Punishment for griefing, constant war against smurf + no option to surrender lead to actually good games in Dota 2. Yeah, even if you lost early game, your team will still try most of the times to comeback. They will play.
“People will start soft inting”, bro they already soft int every game.
I think azzapp is right on this one, people ff and give up too early. Even in high elo more often than not some idiot gets caught at minute 30 in the middle of the map, you do baron and win out of nowhere.
FF in non ranked games is good, but in ranked, I almost never ff, there really is no point.
I think I've never disagreed harder on a topic with Nemesis in my life.
Granted, I'm not a Challenger player. I sit in Emerald. But most people ARE Emerald or below.
The amount of unnecessary FFs that I've seen is ridiculous. I despise the new voting system so much.
While it's not the system that's to blame, but rather the player mentality, it undeniably encourages and nourishes this behavior.
I'm tired of people's main character syndrome, which gets validated with FF at 15.
Another thing I want to clap back against is the argument that everyone decides what's a high quality game for themselves. That's true if you want to have fun, but we are playing ranked to WIN. I don't know why the part about winning more games if you don't surrender got cut, but if you care about winning, you are sabotaginh yourself by surrendering. It's not high quality to win quickly, or to lose quickly. You don't learn anything. It's the path of least resistance, which is infuriating.
If you want to have fun, play normals.
true, even tho I do ff15 from time to time (doesnt matter what game state is, just out of frustration), I think ff option is a mistake in a competitive mode.
I didnt even think about the open mid point. I forgot that was a thing. Usually it was at least 2 people who gave up too so it would be the exact same except there's no option to escape
I would say people behave this way (soft intin, trolling) because they have an easy and fast way out at 15. Dota2 doesnt have a surr vote and people actually tryhard a lot more often.
And with new bounty system anything is possible
@@localhobo5362 as someone who has played like 20 hours of DoTA 2 (maybe like 10 games idrk) there are a few games i would rather ff and move on. But to be fair, i could be overestimating the leads i ff really early in chess too for the same reason
@@localhobo5362true. If people gonna keep trying even if you're throwing, then might as well try too
1:06 Yes, when 4 people have already given up at 15 minutes, chances are that last person who doesn't want to FF is not gonna be able to singe-handedly sweep the game state in only 5 minutes.
Doesn't mean the game is lost, just means that one player realistically can't, in the vast majority of times, carry 4 people who are soft-inting by already giving up.
u can just wait untill someone disconnects, someone comes into his room for w/e reason and he dies giving 1000 bounty and win, theres so much knowledge to gain from this XD
coming as a 10 year dota2 player who switched to league as friends play league.
FF culture is not nearly the same in dota, and dota has 60 minute games ALL the time, 90 minute even. you'd think that dota players would open mid at 15-20 if what you say were true, as the games are often over twice the length and more time to "waste".
The reason why people give up at 15 is because riot has given them the tools to quickly give up. The tools and culture has given rise to a mass surrender mentality. The problem is players wanting to give up, not that 4 people have given up and the 5th doesnt want to.
Some of my favourite games of all time has been insane comebacks. People don't learn how to win from behind because they are given easy tools to surrender
@@dumpsterplayer2700 cool and my worst experience in online games was in dota where i was carry and elder titan was following me since start of the game with his 200 aa dmg since lvl1, making me completely useless for a whole game, so much fun
anyway in dota 2 u dont even have objectives that just end the game like baron xd
@475 if you had a genuine troll then open mid, 99.9% of surrenders are not genuine trolls. Don't use the most extreme example to disprove the whole. It's like saying one time my coffee tasted bad so I don't drink coffee anymore.
"u dont even have objectives that just end the game like baron xd". What you mean is the game isn't decided by who wins the baron fight at 20 minutes?
@@dumpsterplayer2700 we couldnt open mid cause team truly believed that they can win this one for some reason, true no ff policy
if the team is ahead and gets baron it gets ridiculously ahead so their chances to win skyrocket
I mean, I'd argue that it's pretty self evident that soft inting would decrease, if you lowered it's worth as a bargaining chip. That's the sort of basic logic that would require a really zany external variable to shift.
If Riot brings back ff20 I think there would just be more open forting, kind of making it redundant
Also kinda misses that not everybody plays for the same reason. Everybody wants to win. But in league, once you get behind you are basically playing a whole different game. Especially AD/Top. Sometimes, sitting through 45+ min game is not even worth the 5% chance of winning. I'm not saying to ff every time you get behind, but never ffing is just the other side of the same coin.
Sane take, prepare for rage
I mean Azzap never says to literally NEVER ff. This clips channel really butchered the message Azzap was trying to give. The point he was making is twofold. 1. That in the vast majority of situations and elos there is never a good reason to FF if your objective is to actually win, climb, and/or get better. And 2. That how the FF system works at the moment incentivizes people to give up as soon as things go bad. The reason why the chance of winning lowers drastically once an ff vote is cast is because it not only splits the team but also causes at least 1-2 of your teammates to give up on the game entirely and go into autopilot mode assuming they don't just soft int or afk.
people are too self centered, if they feel behind they gonna surrender, even when the rest of the team is wining, you have to able to evaluate your win condition as a team and go for it, sometime, one teamfight is all it take to swing the game and way too often people are gonna surrender just before the decisive fight, i mean sure if you think you're win condition is to drag the game into very late game so Nasus can one shot anyone, i understand your will to surrender, if your wincon is to win the next teamfight that gonna happen in the next 2 min, even if you only have 20% to win it, fight it! surrender after
"we surrender to little" yup theres always that 0/15 yasuo player that belives that with the power of anime he can somehow carry this game
People ffing in my games is the least of my concerns when it comes to league of legends. 😂😂😂😂
For me its how broken champs/items are .
I think its pretty safe to say. People care about balance more than people FFing. 😅
Like how broken mage items are. What does azzap play again?
The Problem is not FFing, the problem is how they handle accounts. 1 Account per player and no ones gonna even try to grief/troll
I think dodging in low elo is fair sometimes. I’m an ornn one trick and was first pick, the enemy team was Gwen, master yi, syndra, vayne, senna. That’s too much I’d rather take the -5 than risk a game that I would be useless in past 20 minutes for -20
I always knew Azzapp has hot takes. He went popular over time and it got to him.
Azzap was and still is pro anonymous lobbies
@@vyyr What's that supposed to mean?
@@GE_Photon_Lord it simply means that when every single high elo player with an ounce of foresight was screaming about shit that change is going to be, azzap was out there preaching about it actually being good in spite of it being factually bad for high elo.
@@vyyr Ah, true.
hot takes =/= good takes
what if there was no fucking FF at all? play the game if u queued up, NOT running it down when u re 0-3 ((on badly countered/camped lane) is actually a high mental skill and not many can pull it off. Play the f00king game if you queued up snowflakes or uninstall and go mario
Waiting for a 2 hours talk with @azzapp now xD
liking and commenting so he does it
😮
The problem with the game is that League is a team game that is actually played as a single player game in solo queue. Everyone is loading into the game with a different way to playing (inting, griefing, winning lane, flipping early game to get ahead, scaling, play for late game, play slow, play their 1 trick). The problem is no one will understand what the other player is seeing because people climb in 1 role and most often with one champion. That is why theres conflict because people need to communicate what they want and reign in aggressive plays dpending on their role and one trick. People are very flawed in their understanding in the game and become more egotistical as they climb, because they think high rank=good player when it is actually high rank = good on the champion. That is why you hear one tricks are bad off their one trick because they dont know how to play the game at all and only know how to play a gimmick. If everyone wants to climb they will play meta comps and sacrifice themselves for the team, but that rarely exists as everyone is incentive is to carry themselves out through cheesey strats and one tricking their way to high rank and play for themslves instead as a team. But this distrust to their teammates makes people want to play carries partly because of communicationand wanting to make the games in their hands for better or for worse.
The bigger problem with league is people don’t ff more in the west. I’ve seen people refuse to ff 4v5s with a 0% chance of winninf
Exactly! I had a duo botlane not FF a 3v5 game. Not to mention NA players loves wasting other’s time for their own pleasure.
Except it's not 0%. It's honestly astonishing to me how easily people give up on a game. There is literally 0 reason to FF a game in elos lower than gm/challenger. I've won games that were 3v5s before in diamond/master mmr. And you can always learn from a game no matter how dire it is. Unless the game is 30-0 and you haven't gotten a single tower or objective and they have soul+baron there isn't really a reason to ff a game. Give a good reason other that "it's not fun to play from behind" and maybe this argument makes sense.
@@huntersuper98 it's case by case. For me it's unwinnable when my support is afk running in circles around the map, no one pushes waves to create pressure and we can't enter the riven to contest drakes or baron. It's even worse when you can't even enter your own jungle, and you're just stuck in base to defend it over and over again because your teammates "want to win". I agree, you can make comebacks from your base or objectives flips even (assuming you could flip it in the first place), but does it happen often? I had very few games like that, most of it were just lost anyway. And I don't enjoy games where both teams play insanely bad and then one of them wins randomly, just like in sports when it happens people say "both teams deserved to lose".
IMO it's not really about how many more FF votes go through etc., it's more about the fact that people give up so easily nowadays than before. There are games where a bad fight happens 5 minutes in and someone wants to FF, or someone is trying to FF when there team is ahead in kills etc.
Also, opening at 15 wasn't even a thing in the west until people saw people do it in Korea. People saw them open at 15, so they started to emulate that behavior IMO which is why people give up so easily nowadays.
I guarantee that game quality would be so much better if people tried for the first 15 minutes instead of being mentally checked out at 5 minutes after dying once in lane.
challanger is the only rank that gets to surrender, evryone else is waaaay to bad to know when a game is lost or not
top 50 players on CN superserver are the only players who get to surrender, evryone else is waaaay to bad to know when a game is lost or not
For low elo (Iron to Plat/Emerald), it would be amazing if they changed FF to like 20 to 25/30 mins. Why? To force playing out and adapting to the game, and a game’s outcome can always change. People play games for mainly 2 reasons: thrill (may be fun or for the adrenaline) and entertainment (something to get by). Instead of saying games will be “more enjoyable”, I think it would be “more thrilling”, thus, increasing game length retention (NOT talking about “overall game retention”).
Games can always come back or go either way; is just that in other games have either resolved this issue already (like Dota) or there’s a better chance to comeback because of the different genre or system game (like Valorant and Fortnite).
At the end of the day, there’s always such thing as playing norms and taking a break, I think embracing these things is a good thing. I do a combination of norms, ranked and taking a break; basically diversification in video games. And just keep FF at 15 for norms and mid to high elo. On top of that, maybe make it so the FF timer slowly decreases depending the elo; for example, 25/30 mins for low elo, 20/25 for mid elo, and 15/20 mins for high elo.
league ranked players are not competitive it seems. They are cruising to a W or to an L, pretending it's out of their control.
Plus this FF culture beung so pupular not only because of Korean soloq, but because of those fkng streamers who are mainly OTP's, and they have to look good on stream.
we are in a game state where matches are decided 7 minutes in, and ending 26 minutes in. i dont know about you all, but i dont find the 19 minutes inbetween of being absolutely shit stomped to be fun. And that is every single game. i've had maybe 1 close game in the entirty of season 13, every other game has been a onesided stomp.
Agreed
In korea, pc cafes still a very popular thing. So of course they will surrender more and sooner when its cost them money to stay in a losing game, with a low chance of winning. And when you are limited per time spent in game and not by how many games you want to play per day, you will value your time more.
I play low elo eune, and people surrender waaaay too little here. In most cases it is 0 20 adc and supp that vote no just to take hostage
I could be wrong i think the winning 5 games out of 100 was playing out 100 "lost" games not 100 in general which seemed like what you were saying. Not sure if it makes much difference to your point though.
I loaded into a game the other day, got a few kills, was doing well, but my bot and mid were all 0/2 and instantly ff15’d. Why do I get shoved into a game that is a 100% out-of-my-control loss when I performed well? Laning phase literally just ended and I’m forced out of the game because my team have anger issues?! Fuck this company, that game was winnable af. We even hard-outscaled them.
Best solution in my opinion:
If you press yes on surrender you should not receive any LP at the end of the match if won and lose more LP if lost. If the whole team surrenders than there is just a normal surrender
I feel like the biggest issue with surrendering, is it feeds a really negative results based analysis outlook on the game. Because surrendering is possible, there are soooo many players who think/type, "oh this game is over, lets just ff." And at that point, the switch in their mentality is what guarantees a loss, whether the surrender vote is accepted or not. Even if 4 of the 5 keep saying no, that one person spamming ff and who has mentally given up as doomed the game. And then when that team loses, people think, "see? We should have surrendered and saved all that time! I was right all along! if only my teammates would have listened and we could have saved that 7 minutes." But in reality, that game could have been completely winnable if a teammate hadn't mentally forfeited at 15. People say ff'ing is better because its miserable to be stuck in a lost game. But i think that's a really flawed line of thinking. FIghting out a game and losing is not what is miserable. Mentally surrendering a game but then being forced to continue it is what is miserable. If people stopped giving up and actually PLAYED league of legends in its entirety, and not just playing queue and laning phase simulator over and over, the need for ff'ing would drop drastically, and people would feel like they were trapped in a lost game. Because sure, if everyone playing is a perfect player, not every game is winnable. But every game IS losable, and finding those weaknesses in the enemy and exploiting them grab a victory from the jaws of defeat is a fun and rewarding part of the game that no one strives for. Imagine if a soccer team in the world cup lost a point and then 2 of the players were like, "well f**k, its over. Lets just ff." And stopped trying. The rest of that 90 minute game would be effectively a 9v11, and completely miserable for the 9 still trying, and also for the 2 who gave up. That isn't a thing at all, because there is no such thing as trying to ff a soccer game, so you might as well try for the victory right until the end! And in my opinion, that is a way healthier and more enjoyable way to view the game. FF enables a degrading toxic mentality of just giving up, regardless of if your team wants to surrender or not, and just damning them to the loss because of a seriously fragile ego/mentality, and THAT is what i believe is the biggest problem in league.
Brother, some games are just doomed. Matchmaking isn't fair, sometimes things go horribly wrong, it's impossible not to mentally give up.
Also there's no ff'ing in a soccer game for the same reason they don't surrender in proplay: because they're an actual team, paid to be there. They would stop getting sponsored if they acted that way. SoloQ is a completely different beast. Just the fact that you're doing that comparison show how clueless you actually are.
@@memeaccount5898 that's kinda nonsense rationale imo. There is no surrendering in peewee sports with kindergarteners. They are not being paid to be there, teams are often made from a pool of kids where the teams change every game. But they still don't have surrendering. I'd argue it's good for kids to learn to strive against the adversity of a losing game and be encouraged not to give up! And some games may be doomed, but I seriously doubt 99% of the playerbase has the technical knowledge to accurately identify them. Take any losing game and replace it's players with challengers and they probably win. That's a dramatic exaggeration, but it highlights an important thought. If you play well enough, if your team tries hard enough, there is a way way higher than 0% chance that the game is won, which implies that the certainty of a lost game is way more an indication of a defeatest mindset than the game's variables themselves. Also, league is built to allow for comebacks. Even if you are ridiculously behind, if the game makes it to 30/40 minutes, that game is 100% winnable, regardless of the situation. People make mistakes ALL the time, even if they have a very scaling team comp. One pick with long death timers could lead to a Baron fight out numbered into randomly winning. So If games continue on to longer times without surrendering, your chances of winning inherently go up, because there is more opportunity for forcing mistakes and capitalizating on them. I think saying, "it's impossible not to give up, games are just doomed," is sort of a 1 dimensional view point. But even under the argument that some games ARE entirely unwinnable, I still wholeheartedly reject the claim that it's impossible to give up. Those few minutes of giving up and dragging yourself through the remainder of a game you've already mentally surrendered, is way less fun than just trying new things and doing your best to win, even if it is fruitless. Giving up and not wanting to play losing games is basically just not even playing league... Like what is the point of a competitive videogame if you mentally crumble whenever there is adversity. The adversity itself is a huge part of WHY you would even play the game, and the drive to overcome it and the satisfaction of succeeding is part of it's allure. That's a huge selling point of competitive games and why people enjoy them! There is also the flipped side of this. Winning is a lot less fun when the enemy surrenders! Like having games where you get ahead at the beginning and then people just mess around because they know in a few minutes it's pretty likely the enemy team just ffs removes a lot of the fun and reward of EARNING those advantages and trying to transition them into a victory. For me, I honestly just think that winning or losing, regardless of which, is infinitely more fun when people don't give up
You definitely didn't experience a 6-0 at half time football match this comparison doesn't work
Tbh the game is almost always over if 4 ppl are willing to surrender in the first place. In low elo it happens way more than it should but that’s also why they’re low elo and those that don’t tilt surrender will naturally rank up anyway.
I think it's more the idea that, with time, no surrender will make the ranked community as a whole less toxic because it'll progressively filter out the people with poor mental.
Allowing surrendering increases the player base, but worsen the average mental as a result
Ffs should be shorter. Players would take there early game more seriously if so. Nothing is worse than playing top and winning good trades and wave states just to have your jungle throw game during first or second clear and you just have to sit top in a now impossible match up, that you originally was winning, while 3 players blame you for jungles mistakes before you inevitably lose at 28 minutes after crawling your way back into a game that you had almost won 20 minutes prior
pp would still soft it imo
The only reason people soft int is becasue nobody ever FFs
Pretty sure in the whole vid Azzapp also brings up that riot needs to put more manpower into the report system to punish clear soft int as well
@@yunogasai3350 u cannot punish draven that perma farm never play any important skirmish or objectives and only contribute by taking kills by ulting them
@@GlidarGlidar
The reason they soft int is because they have no prospects in life. Let’s not blame the people playing the game for wanting to play the game
@@pineapple7024 You can't hard int, because you get banned. You can't FF because you have idiots like you on the team, who watched too much narutu and think you can use your power of friendship to still win with 10k gold down and your jungler disconnecting at 5 minutes. So the best option you have is to just go watch something on 2nd screen and wait for the game to be over.
You're either very stupid, or just being disingenuous.
Most games are lost if you get tol far behind its almost impossible to win from behind, if my team is down 4 towers and its 20-36 kills theres no reason to contiune the game.if every lane is losing theres also almost no reaosn to keep playing
there are games i would quit that i ended up winning, so the point does stand, its just depends on the person and the day. its easy to vent and get upset on a string of losses. or to have a game you were close, so close, and someone just makes the dumbest play, ruins it, and now you're in the next game and it already is going bad.
I would still rather have the option to leave an utter stomp and take the L than to play out a 30+ game of the enemy team not knowing they can just capitalize on their win and push long enough for us to catch up and maybe win. I could be in a whole other game enjoying myself in that time
I agree that dodging in low elo in gameplay standpoint is useless but ppl in low elo are well casuals so its better to give them option to leave the game before it starts cuz something happend in real life then waste everyones times and give them ban cuz they had to play something the already know they cant play
I would love a soloQ option where there is voice chat, i think that alone would make the game so much more enjoyable. Not being able to communicate with your team makes even master games rly low quality because no coordination can happen which makes ranked rly unfun imo. If you have a gameplan as a team i think surrendering will become less and less of a problem unless the game is a stomp but thats what ff is for anyway.
Azzap is one of the best and smartest players in the world.
Listen to him.
As League is a "Game" there are player who want to improve and win and there are those who play for fun.As ranked is a competitive environment those who want to have fun and would ff or afk bcs the game is not fun for them should Not play ranked as it is toxic and sweaty ranked is the least "for fun" game mode.FF at 20 would let players see what happens in the next 5 minutes bcs 5 minutes can change so so much and the mentality of "cant be bothered" to play just unhelps.
well believe it or not nowadays normals are less for fun if you are diamond or below because u get 5stacks (sometimes even scripters) tryharding normals boosting their mmr for ranked placements. while in soloq you dont face 5stacks and if you are not master or something you can play for fun better in ranked in my personal experience in euw, thanks for that riot!
@@misscharm6844 Your normal and ranked MMRs are separate by the way.
This 5 minutes change nothing. If FF available at 15, people think about FF 5-10 minutes of the game. They also soft inting before 15 for their team press "yes". Only full cancelling FF in ranked games will help.
@@huntersuper98 Even aram influences your rank first time u get placed but yeah i know they are different, im talking about fresh accounts tho.
lil bro thinks that onetricking a champion to challanger makes one say only truth or what, hes saying random shit stating them as facts
What I really don't get is when people hostage normals/ARAMs when clearly nobody is having fun. There's nothing on the line stop being weird.
bro what is this guy talking about this is such a lie i fucking hate playing a game for 30+ minutes when we can tell its lost in 10 minutes and it happens every game i havent had a single game where we won a not ff-ing game we strech it for so long just to lose i could already play another game
It's a game problem not a players issue. If someone gets fed in enemy team(like enemy botlane, or assassin jungler), the game for the laners become extremely unfun, because they can't lane properly anymore, they have to give up XP/farm, rotate late, be depended on the teammates you don't know(considering teammate(s) are not fed as well), so it just seems doomed, why would anyone play game till late game and not surrender, when the game winning percentage is 90-10 in favor of enemy team? If my life depended on it, sure I'd play till my last breath and try everything to win, but it's a game, I don't give a single shit after it becomes unfun for me to play it(if it's premade 5v5, it's different) and I simply surrender to hopefully get into a better game/team and be on winning side while enemy surrenders, easy as that. That's why most of the players playstyle is early aggression/risky plays, you should risk it to snowball, because if it has a good outcome, you have a much better chance of winning the game in SoloQ and game will also end quickly.
If you dont care about the game when youre not having fun go play for fun game modes like normals or aram. Thats why they're there.
This is the result of items being complete statsticks with little to no counterplay
Ranked is a competitive mode, it's a mode ppl supose to tryhard. It's not for you and it's fine. You can enjoy this game in a different mode like Aram or draft pick or w/e.
This is the problem with soloq people dont think about it as a competitive mode anymore.
@@localhobo5362 It is a competitive mode without competitive elements, so it isn't competitive anymore. CS is competitive, Dota 2 is competitive, because they have a way to communicate with your team with voice comms, league doesn't have the voice comms, so soloQ doesn't qualify as a fully competitive game, thus having more trolls/griefers in games, because frustration of not being able to communicate with your team correctly(which is very important part for winning a game) results in bad decisions and tilt.
@@GoldNugget also ranked league still has locked heroes limiting your draft making it uncompetitive as well
I think what the ff option stands for is giving people a little bit of agency in regards with their experience in the game. Let's face it, League is such a complex game, there are so many variants at play that make each game uniquely distinct from others, and with this variability comes the chance that some games may actually be just like not fun for some or all people involved. Sometimes the experience just sucks, and it's really a product of bloated and unregulated design philosophy and feature creep, exacerbated by arbitrary balancing around pro play profitability.
So yeah FF may be bad "competitvely", maybe even "unsportsmanlike" but it's good for your mental. If I had to play an entire low-elo ass 35 min game every time I had an uncarryiable inter or even just getting stomped but them being unable to end the game, I'd feel as if I just wasted my time. Lots of people don't have that much time to waste or would rather just play another game. But yeah the truth is the game is too random, your mileage can vary so much from game to game due to factors outside of your influence that sometimes you don't feel like coinflipping with all odds stacked against you at every turn, when you could be having fun in a different game, one in which your input can do more to affect the outcome vs just praying the enemy throws their lead.
I mean in normals, yeah. But in ranked? How can you even get to 35min with a dogshit team, when the ff is at 15? Only answer is there are plenty of possibilities to come back! League is not a game that you want to play just to win all games, if you like that, you should just play single players games instead, then you basically always win. I've played football (soccer) on a high level and we sometimes seem to get clapped 2-0 at halftime. Can't walk off the pitch tho and sometimes we made a comeback to 2-3 and won. That wouldn't happen if we had the option to walk away. You queue up, you play, you win some you lose some. But the victory is so much sweeter when you make that comeback. That is good for your mental, not just stomping every game to get to win. That's just easy. It's the hard victories that you learn from and can be proud of.
IMO
If open mid comes back you just lose the game same as surrendering but the person that gave up can get punished. Same end result. And with the not having fun point, its not that at 15 minutes you're deciding what to do. All 5 players chose to play a game, probably for fun (or to climb). If four change their mind halfway through thats a shame, but nobody forced them to do anything, they chose to play. The person unwilling to surrender is the one being forced to play half a game because the rest changed their mind, not the other way around.
I think we should start on lv 2 to speed up the game
It's kinda funny for me to see a lot of the comments outing themselves as super egotistical players. No, it's not common to believe you are playing with 4 monkey's on your team and you need to ff to hopefully not get a similar team next game. You are in the elo you are in because you are that good, calling the people you play with bad is inherently calling yourself bad and this kind of mentality is exactly why ffing needs to be at the very least pushed back to 20 min
surrender should be 5/5
or at least in rank, only those who voted yes should lose lp
if 4 people do not want to continue playing the video game, why are we arguing that forcing them to keep playing will improve matches?
I don't think those guys really understand what voting to FF really means. When I vote for FF I'm already done playing, I'm just giving my team the option to not be soft inted and go play the next one
Those 4 people should queue up for normals. No one is saying they should remove FF from the game entirely, just remove it from ranked. In ranked you're supposed to be playing to win. People who throw up an FF vote when they get frustrated and then decide to not try for the rest of the game if it fails should just play normals. If you do that shit in ranked you should honestly just be banned, it's bad sportsmanship on top of being a non-competitive attitude, if you don't want to take your gameplay seriously play normals or ARAM and accept that you're a casual player. People want to play casually but also play ranked, it's mentally unstable behavior.
No FF leads to longer, more exhausting and mentally demanding games which leads to people overall playing less cause 3 long, hard wins will make u stop play the game while quick winstreak losestreak will make you play the game more, riot knows this.
We’re talking about solo queue here tho sometimes it only takes one thing to turn a game around if one person thinks they can carry the game I think they should be given the chance
Why queue up to a competitive mode if you dont wanna play because the game is tough? Hate this mentality because it allows weak mental people a way out for being literal crybabies
The issue is that no one enjoys the game anymore and don't want to play if they're not guaranteed a win. People just queue ranked to get their +17lp and not to be challenged or try to improve. People FF15 when they realize they actually have to put in effort to win.
More games are winnable than they think, but people have 0 mental strength and want to FF15 after losing first blood
Just add a no ff queue to see how it evolves along with ff queue
Having a surrender option is just plain retarded. In dota so many games will be won simply because you either keep playing or ppl or afk. Surrender option just gives ppl an out that should never exist.
Lol the 250 lp for 5 games is a bit of a propaganda tactic (or genuine mistake). The same logic works for losses, you lose 250 lp after 5 lost games too. It doesnt matter whether you gross the numbers up or look at them net
The topic it's kind of weird just because it's completely based on opinions. I'm one of those people that will never hit surrender, however I wouldn't like to hold my 4 other teammates hostage just for me. But I also don't like to lose winnable games because of winnie teammates.
And just yesterday both things happened, I lost a really winnable game and won a game that seemed completely lost because me and one teammate didn't ff
I mean, I admit I get tilted sometime and hit that FF at 15, but honestly it should not be even an option (at least not this early). Ranked is a competitive mode, and players kinda forgot that.
the stat are wrong, they said 95% of early surrender end up in a loss anyway, but most of the time it just end up in another surrender, when people are really trying to fight back, the odd of winning grows a lot
if my teamate are not trying, i'l never surrender, i'm totally gonna hold them hostage, screw them, but if we really try to fight back and fail, i'll accept the surrender
If and only if they find a way to ban griefers, cause people will still soft int and afk so it ends faster
In CSGO/CS2 you can only FF if theres a leaver. And im my experience there are way less trolls(bad players sure) in the ranked games. I mostly played cs 2015-22 So havent much in cs2 but if it that is one of the contributions to why I've always felt csgo ranked games feel way more like a team effort then im def down for no FF votes.
But again because of the nature of the two different games a cs game is always winnable. Where gold/map leads in LoL matter way more
How to solve the problem: get rid of surrender AND make LP losses for losing GREATER for bad performance (use kda relative to your teammate’s kda, wards placed, activity, etc)
Minimize losses when you’re losing or you get down ranked, you don’t belong at your rank if you can’t do that
yeah, I was talking with someone about something similar regarding LP gain and loss, but it would make game more toxic, as people would just stat pad when they realise game is doomed to lose less LP.
@@localhobo5362no just don’t do anything to anyone except the people that have extremely bad stats + they are in the losing team (so max it would only be 1 person)
People are just playing team roulette at this point. Oh i got a good team and get kills early, the other team doesnt want to play anymore and ff at 15. Oh i got a bad team, soft int and surrender at 15. Its rare to find someone who actually cares about the game itself and puts effort to win, everyone else just wants easy wins and short games.
Riot has shown unwillingness to balance the game which is opening the pandora's box.
As somebody with multiple banned accounts (I’ve since reformed and haven’t had a chat restriction even) I think people shouldn’t be able to just buy accounts so easily. I like Korea’s way of doing it, if you’re banned hey have a nice day buddy. Get the trolls harshly out of the game and improve the experience for everyone. More people have quit the game from toxicity than from being banned…that should never happen
Nemesis is right about Korean SoloQ, I personally played around mid master elo and players are insanely good especially mechanically, they just have really poor mental
ive played league from s1-s6 and now play dota. in dota there is no surrender. simple as that.
You play it out and its way better that way. Everyone goes into a ranked game knowing they will play it to the end
I don't think giving up is tied to the FF votes and I think the problem is the former, not the later.
If they remove ff people will just force the lose
if there is not even an option to ff people will try more for sure. in my games (emerald) bad mental is the #1 reason games are lost
Its still worth to dodge champ select in low elo because even though your enemy may not know how to play against a bad team comp, you wont know how to exploit what the enemy doesnt know. So it just goes bacl to a low % win
Playing that match out would teach you how to play against it better
nah its way to random, you can have a terrible comp and it just depends who ints. doesnt matter at all, lobby reveal and check ppls winrates is worth a dodge though. because riots ranked system is fucked and every emerald player are not equal at all. some are far better than others
10 kills behind, 5 k gold behind, 2 towers down, 2 fed opponents in 20 min or under. Let's not surrender and waste 10 or more time because clearly we can win cope. What happens? Araming mid because we can clearly teamfight. Woooooooo
the most annoying people who exist in this game
i won a few ~10k gold deficit games in diamond so jimmy it is very possible to win from 10 kills behind in your silver game
@@sk1llz_811 One decent teammate who not even really fed then decides to vote no.
If the enemy is this ahead at 20 minutes, and you still manage to stall 10 more minutes, you absolutely could've won the game.
How do people not realize that saying "Hostage taking for 30 minutes" is the same thing as saying "I have no fucking idea how to let myself get carried and soft-int every game where I lose lane".
@@jeejee9427 so how exactly do u win the game where oponnent just secures his baron + elder to finally destroy your base?
He's not taking into consideration the time in game when he's talking about winning 5/100 ff games. Those games are usually won by a massive throw or comeback which might take another 15-20 minutes. Why play those 15-20 minutes 100 times to win 5 games? You're better off resetting and trying to win a fresh game in the long run.
yeah ffing at 15 when ur team gets giga stomped. u think, resting ur brain for next game will win u the next game?
2:16 Prime example of why not to play for yourself only, GF pro player
Disabling ff because of his examples is like disabling chat because of someone typed something racist
Classic main protagonist syndrome. Had a game today where i as Belveth was 4/0 and i decided to play for my Kassadin, then my support (Braum) decided to play with me (help he get picks, set/clear vision etc) and my Caityn was constantly bitching about why no one was playing to her and letting the "CaRrY aLl AlOnE" when our win condition was CLEARLY me as Belveth and our damn Kassadin, specially since the enemy team didnt have range/CC to keep me locked and i could kill everyone, so our adc has the brilliant idea of constantly pushing mid and died 1v2 or 1v3, all game.
We still won cause me and kass got super strong with Braum's help so we carried, but it goes to show how people dont want to play optimally, they just wanna have the spotlights.
I dont care, having an early surrender imo is sometimes better than having a miniscule chance to win, id much rather be sane for the next game, than play for 40m when i knew id lose at 20
im willing to play weakside, willing to get carried, i do not mind stalling for 40min and hope for a good teamfight
but if my lead is not big enough to offset the losing lane, theres just no chance
the game is unplayable when every game theres a lv2 gank, lv3 dive…
we dont have slow game anymore where we can stall, give up objective, scale and win later… as soon as u die at lv2, the side of the map is completely lost, no objective contest, no vision, jg definitely not gonna gank, and the winning team just snowball
sounds like ur just bad
This legit just sounds like you give up upon dying a single time. I've had plenty of games where I go 0/15/2 bot and top but win because I'm able to draw pressure in the right areas, scale, and play to my strengths. Abusing my enemies over fixation on me.
2:50 you literally just hard disagreed only to then restate his point and agree with it?
i hate it, i'm a casual player who play for fun, playing from behind is totally fine, waiting 10min to get into a game then wasting 15min into an early game is boring as fuck
for the argument that most game who ask for an early surrender are lost, this is because of the negative energy, it's like flamming, it's never good
i saw many game where both team were trying to surrender at the same time, many game that were winning but rely on 1 player so the other player surrender, many game where everyone were winning their lane but one and that player just spam surrender all the game, people are way too easy to push the surrender button, yeah, sometimes there's no path to victory, but most of the time, people just don't wanna try, sometime they would even surrender 20s before the final fight
What I want to see is make the surrender vote a bet. If you vote no and you lose game, you lose double lp. If you vote yes and win, you don't gain lp. Perfect way to encourage players to be less delusional when they're taking hostages or when they're surrendering in a winnable game
4:08 it's quite a bit better in Dota 2 but also mid opening and trolling is still a problem that persist.
I don't think riot should remove surrender but I think riot should copy dota way more often.
Sure if FF is removed from the game, people will resort to opening more. So just punish them harder, like in Dota 2 for example
Feels like he doesn't remember when people used to just afk and open mid lol
Why do people think holding others who don't want to be there hostage is going to get good results? His immediately awful L take that Korean soloQ is the worst when literally every pro has acknowledged that the quality is the best in the world should have been a giveaway._.
dont play ranked. play normals and arams if your mentality is like that
I had a 57 minute comeback because my team didn't want to FF. I was rewarded with the client bugging out and not counting the game. It's completely gone from all match histories. No lp gained, just an hour gone.
57 minutes of playing from behind just to not even get rewarded
And?
@@kotekrogalik Tickets been up for over a day, no response, still can't see the match and haven't gotten any LP
@@glenndiddyriot doesnt compensate lp lost to bugs or playing vs cheaters
My take on the matter if someone in the team wants to FF then you basically play without a functional member, they gave up they wont put in effort to play they more likely to int,it makes it un enjoyable for them and un enjoyable for us.
on the other side...nemesis is completly right..the ff button has nothing todo with the ppl. its just a sign they are holding up to give their mental breakdown a name.
if they take the ff out they either chat and afk or soft or they just open the lane or whatever....the way of protest can be very individual...and we do see it for years like i just mentioned...the main issues cant be changed by riot directly...they can just take you permantly out of the game for wrong behaviour and i think they should do this mroe often but of money is what they want and money is what they get from those ppl.
just imagine would you play with someone who is just leaving the whole time while you are playing uno? or who is just taking someone else cards? or who is somehow manipulate the fun in playing? i guess not...and the result is that the next time you wont invite him. but online you are forced to play with ppl who are mentally out of enjoying games.
to give my few cents I tracked my last 20 games and out of them 17 games ended due to surrenders and 13 of those were before 20 minutes. Its absolutely a feature thats horrible
If you played without FF nothing would change, except the fact you would spend 10-20+ minutes more playing each game.
@@walkelftexasranger youd experience late game and what you do in a game has more of an impact as it takes longer for the game to end.
And I am playing league because I enjoy the gameplay loop. So I want to experience different stages of the game, I want to win or lose based on the game itself and not on the basis of my teammates mental in a singular moment.
@@walkelftexasranger >30 minute game
>Unwinnable game
Pick one.
@@jeejee9427 Unwinnable game.
Rather lose and play another, then play for 30 minutes (doesn't matter if I win or lose).
@@Killroy007 Late game is absolutely unfun for me to play.
I think something that surrender at 15 creates that neither Azzapp and Nemesis actually talk about here is the fact that it is Gamechanging in the sense that: IF you dont play the best Champ in your Role you WILL get puinished for it. Theres is definitly LESS creative play in League of Legends bcs of that. Theres a reason why players want "for fun" modes like Arena and Urf because in those you still have the freedom of playing the game you want. In soloq you dont get that anymore. and the more competitive this game gets the further apart those arguments will go.
Is it more fun to play League competitive or for fun?
I think at the end of the day its still a game and should be played for fun first not for the rank or your work as a streamer. if its not fun you will be sad playing this game.
But on the bright side i like the fistbump thats pretty fun.
If nemesis reads this did he ever use the fist bump ingame with anyone... for fun? i wonder
Would you fist bump with the hittler?
they shoudl add the system that valorant has. your gains would be affected by performance and example surrendering early woudl lose a lot of lp.
Of course pros say korea solo q is better, if they didnt they would have no excuse for being worse than them
if you lock people into games theyll just run down instead of spamming ff, because removing the option wont remove their desire to end the game.
most of those players do it because there is ff 15 option or at 20 at worse. Make it surr25 and most would actually tryhard
Does Azzapp really think that people will magically queue up WANTING to play the game now? There are literally players out there who’s sole goal is to pick Nunu cleanse ghost and run it down mid every game. The idea that people won’t just resort to opening mid to let the game end faster as a makeshift surrender is insane. People’s behavior won’t magically change because you forced them to now play out a game with a teammate who’s intentionally running it down.
That is why in the long term these people will adapt or quit, he says this in the video
Its the ‘oneshot’ system for example adc gets 100 to 0 2 times in a row after farming 200 minions. Its jsust wasted time thats the problem i think.
But there are more problems. For example if jgler picks lee sin and farms the early game for 30
Mins every fkn one knows lee sin is dogwater later into the game and he made one missplay alrdy cz hes just plain bad people think “ye well were playing a 4 v 6 game lets ff its just to much energy consuming.
Or a nidalee pick every fkn human animal molecule atom knows that when you are sht at nidalee its gonna be a lsoe and you can only dodge ones but riot shows the patches that nidalee got a 0.0001% buff on its q and everyone starts playing nidalee cz it shows in the patchnotes.
Or pro play proplayers pick corki mid and al of a sudden you get corki mid first timers knowing they will lose the game cz its just more of a coinflip then a galio mid first time its just the kit of the champs the design makes it so that you are useless.
Fiora cant play from behind counflip he goes top 0/5 you know its over cz fiora is a chanp like that or jayce whos behind you know hes unable to come back if the enemy frontline is to beefy.
All of the factors above that makes me people want to ff. i never saw people ffing when people just play their role 2 tank/bruiser beefy 3 damage champs
The comp is inportant.
The way league is being played is just toxic.
Just imo here but not surrendering wouldnt fix much cause even now when 2 ppl dont wanna surrender 3 can just open and its an insta lose or just afk on top lane is a popular strat but i think such early surrendering shouldnt be encouriged. Example adc feeds 15 kills in 20 min they ff and go next there should be an incentive to keep playing or a higher punishment for players like this... i shouldnt lose as many points as he does when i won lane could have carried but his poor performance demoralised 3 other ppl to the point where we ff but thats just imo
I don't think it'd about surrendering too early, it's the fact that when you're behind there's litteraly no way to get back into the game other than a massive misplay. If your bot is 0/10 at 15, it's pretty hard to win from that position.
I've never understood these massive bounties. Just give more catch up exp because I'm pretty sure 1 level is around 1k gold in stats.
dota 2 doesnt have surrender. people try way harder until the end
In other games, people just leave or go afk since they can't FF.
Yeah and then they get thrown into low priority Q where they have to join a game with 4 other AFK people and either quit or solely annoy other idiots with their idiotic behaviour who are doing the same shit. So it´s a system that works ALOT better than riot´s will ever.
Just like the best anti-cheater system that was used in Titanfall. Cheater didn´t get officially punished. They were thrown into cheaters-Q where they sit in purgeatory. Until they, way to few of them, eventually realized that they were playing against other cheaters and just other cheaters. But only few of them noticed. Or perhabs didn´t care enough to buy another acc. Anyways. It reduced the amounts of cheater in "regular" matches by a ton.
you don't get thrown into lower prio q lol@@sint3640
Just remember that Diamond+ is less than 1% of players, so what azzapp purposes will be better for 99% OF COMMUNITY
I usually ff even if I realize a game can still be wom because ffing is not always about if you can win, but if you can be bothered to play the game out. It's really good to do this especially at lower elos where there will nearly always be a win condition because a lack of game knowledge. But in higher elos you just have to get your sequences right the first time and if it goes catastrophically I'd rather just FF if we don't have a better comp. I've played this game for far too long, and even if I'm usually the type just to play it out because I like the game, I respect that at least 3 other people would like to do something else.
4:41 Yea I just had an aram game have one guy randomly inting because he was tilted druing last game playing against teemo on our team and we simply just open in allchat. get rid of ff can‘t fix this at all
God this is so common
@@why.should_i tbh this is the first time seeing someone titled by opponent from last game（when nobody typing in all chat）.
Usually ppl do this to teammate in last game😂
No offense, but who cares about ARAM? Genuine question.