Tai Chi vs Stand-up Grappling: Positional Superiority With Fascia Mastery

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  • Опубліковано 29 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 48

  • @poeguru88
    @poeguru88 6 місяців тому +4

    I do no gi jiu jitsu and aikido; the aikido I train we have a concept called “connection” the way it was taught to me is our nervous system has mirror neurons that activate in relation to our opponent and our fascia is very sensitive to pressure changes and our emotional reactions.If you can be very relaxed and apply a feather touch with a “beneficent” intention then your opponent doesn’t get the resistance he’s expecting and his nervous system via mirror neurons shifts from the sympathetic to parasympathetic neural response. In psychology it’s called affective resonance or emotional contagion.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +2

      This is a really intelligent commentary and explanation! Totally agree with you and it explains why the spiritual pursuit of Tai Chi Chuan is so valuable. Because when we rise above our base instincts, so that we can touch lightly with a beneficent intent, even when, or especially when, under threat and pressure, then we can all shift from sympathetic (fight or flight) to parasympathetic (rest and heal) nervous system. And that means we shift from a state of stress to a state of healing. And that can be much more valuable than just winning any fight, can it not? Thank you so very much for your excellent contribution!

    • @poeguru88
      @poeguru88 6 місяців тому +1

      Absolutely! I didn’t believe it until I felt it, my first class my aikido teacher grabbed me and told me to imagine I had a glass of water in my hand to give to him even though he wasn’t letting my arm go; I felt all this resistance and temptation to do a jiu jitsu technique. Then he told me; “how would you give me the water if I was your grandma?” And then no mindedly I responded; “I’d just give it to you” and as I said that I felt all the tension release and he was completely off balanced as I was extending the imaginary glass of water to him.
      I actually showed this concept to a medical doctor and some medical students and they confirmed it had to do with the mirror neurons. It’s funny because we experience this all the time in non physical ways; someone is upset or angry and you get them to smile or laugh by cracking a lighthearted joke. It’s just weird experiencing it kinesthetically with biofeedback from a partner.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +2

      ​@@poeguru88that prompt about giving water to your grandma is totally genius. You have a great teacher!

    • @worldtraveler007
      @worldtraveler007 5 місяців тому +1

      ​@@poeguru88I'm assuming your teacher is Corky Q. ? Used to be in L.A. and now in Florida?

    • @poeguru88
      @poeguru88 5 місяців тому

      @@worldtraveler007yes!

  • @LiShuBen
    @LiShuBen 6 місяців тому +4

    Excellent demonstration! I’ve done some of these things on instinct so it’s nice to get some detail on what’s happening to improve my practice. Thank you!

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +1

      That's awesome that you've done some of these things on instinct, and that means you have developed useful fundamental skills and are on the same paths as the Tai Chi masters! Glad to hear that this video helped you find more useful details to support that. This video series is especially great for people who have done the fascia mastery course because it's meant to give you more insight on how to progress the skills you've developed!

  • @manuelelozzi9738
    @manuelelozzi9738 6 місяців тому +6

    Does this use of the fascia explain the difference between the use of internal force to generate a classic self-defense technique (chin na, painful immobilizations, fajin and breaks) and, as other masters say, "the expansion of internal force in space to envelop and manipulate the opponent"?
    "The force in space is not what resolves a fight, in the end a more solid force will be needed to finish the opponent, but it disperses and confuses the instinctive reactions of the opponent creating opportunities to conclude the fight to one's advantage".
    It also seems to highlight a basic difference between Yang and Chen styles, Chen forms have less gentle techniques in their movements, while Yang style has movements that seem more like this concept of manipulation of the fascia, so you could say that, at the time, Yang style was a conceptual evolution of Chen style, which led it to be usable in different contexts such as shuai jiao or as for the guards of the past, like those of today, which sometimes need to stop people without damaging them, while Chen style remained more focused on the classic concept of personal defense and defeat of the enemy, but, as I said in previous comments, each style then arrives at the same awareness.
    Thank you Sifu for helping us progress and understand more and more.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +9

      Great analysis and questions! Yes this use of fascia explains those differences between classic self defense techniques and the cryptic statement of other masters.
      Fascia control confuses the opponent's neuromuscular sense of proprioception, or in simpler words, makes them feel incorrectly and respond incorrectly to what's happening. It is a practical form of Tingjin, not buried in mysticism.
      After fascia mastery, our next topic is Song mastery. In Song you learn to integrate the entire mass of your body and utilize its ability to generate a hydraulic like pressure. This is the beginning of your ability to receive tremendous force without having to distort or make the opponent misalign their force. This is also the key to being able to generate tremendous, effortless force, whether to project and bounce an opponent, or to do a strike that sends the kinetic energy deep into the recipient's body. It is the foundation of what many people consider to be the effects of Internal Power. And again, this can be learned without resorting to talking about "expansion of internal force in space" or anything vague like that.
      In person, I can teach a complete beginner to perform fascia control in an hour, and proper Song within another hour, if they don't have any serious prior injuries that makes them deeply uncomfortable. It's so viable and that's why I wish for everyone to be able to develop these skills. Because they are the foundations of authentic Tai Chi skill and the building blocks of a genuinely comfortable and powerful way of being.
      So while I love the mysticism and tradition in Tai Chi, I wish to help people go beyond the smoke and mirrors, overcome masters who talk but don't teach, rise above the symbolisms that do not help them, to arrive at a practical and personal understanding, that guides them to become the skilled and complete practitioner that I know, and they always knew, that they could become.
      Thanks for your thoughtful comment! I'm very happy to hear about your growth in progress and understanding! 😀🙏

    • @manuelelozzi9738
      @manuelelozzi9738 6 місяців тому +2

      @@phoenixmountaintaichi Thank you Sifu for your work and your words.

  • @hanksimon1023
    @hanksimon1023 6 місяців тому +6

    I've never been shown how Ting is used in Shuai Jiao, but your execution seems instinctive by feel, like you could do these 'counters' with your eyes closed. In addition, it looks like it might be difficult to be 'gentle' at full speed, that a reaction at full speed might result in a catastrophic Shuai Jiao type of explosive throw!

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +3

      Yes good points! You can definitely do these counters with your eyes closed, because the Ting sense is faster than the eyes anyways. And fascia control is very much a practical form of Ting sense. If my partner is not skilled at falling or the floor is hard, at full speed I favor the methods of getting behind them because that is safest for everyone. It can be very fun to practice quickly who can better take the other's back! Some of the throws will indeed result in a very airborne flight if you do it at full speed!

  • @lsporter88
    @lsporter88 6 місяців тому

    That was very illuminating, and extremely useful. Methinks you are an exceptional Teacher. Great video.

  • @Viewpoint314
    @Viewpoint314 6 місяців тому +2

    Great video

  • @gabaryahyasharahla2467
    @gabaryahyasharahla2467 6 місяців тому +1

    Simply brilliant in skill and articulation. Cant wait for that single leg takedown defense

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +1

      Thank you! I'll probably film it next week and post it the week after. We will be utilizing the same techniques as you've been seeing in other recent videos, so you can recognize how this is a consistent method and mindset!

    • @bobbader4789
      @bobbader4789 6 місяців тому

      @@phoenixmountaintaichi❤

  • @nvisblfist1
    @nvisblfist1 6 місяців тому +1

    Great work and explanations.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +1

      Thank you! I hope everyone experiments and we can improve this art together.

  • @Ninjaotaku
    @Ninjaotaku 6 місяців тому +1

    Awesome Video, A quick question - Does the Fascia manipulation only work via their tension?
    Eg. an experienced judoka mixes tension & relax to push and pull and when they find they are at advantage they go full force into a throw.
    The same as very experienced Grappler and Muay Thai clinch.
    If it does only work via Their tension, is there a way to make them tense up so you can manipulate them?

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому

      Very good question! Yes it works via tension along the fascia. This is different from the whole body push pull as seen in judo or wrestling. It's a subtle steering that tilts the axis of their balance, and they do not need to be pushing or resisting you hard.
      It's different from other methods of throws because you only need to apply a very light force, and the opponent only needs the lightest of resistance for you to gain control of their balance.
      This is not unstoppable though. A skilled opponent will yield to even that slightest tension, and on one level that is a part of what push hands is. And it is what having a high level of Song helps you to overcome.
      When applied to someone who mixes tension and relax, you will make their gears get stuck, such that they are unable to relax not resist properly. One student of the Fascia Mastery online course described it as feeling like the opponent's whole body locks up and their resistance disappears.
      Good question and I hope this discussion helps you understand this with more clarity! If not, ask away!

    • @Ninjaotaku
      @Ninjaotaku 6 місяців тому

      @@phoenixmountaintaichi That was a great detailed explanation and you answered all of my current questions
      Thank you Kindly

  • @reflexflow9088
    @reflexflow9088 6 місяців тому

    Nice Explanations, Great Video

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому

      Thank you very much for watching and commenting! Glad you enjoyed it!

    • @reflexflow9088
      @reflexflow9088 6 місяців тому

      @@phoenixmountaintaichi I Taught Yang' Long form for 40years, it's nice to see someone who understands the self-defense aspects!

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +1

      ​@@reflexflow908840 years of long form! You are an expert and a patient one at that ha ha. Respect! 🫸🤛

    • @reflexflow9088
      @reflexflow9088 6 місяців тому

      @@phoenixmountaintaichi I love Tai Chi and Martial Arts in general! I taught mostly out of park districts for Many Years, but also some MMA Gyms and did a lot of cross training and learned a lot about effective Tai Chi self-defense by working and sparring with different styles of martial arts! As much as I love teaching Tai Chi, the fact that most students were only in class for the health exercise, and I only had a few students that I could really roll, push and play! I'm almost 70 and teach a blend of FMA and Combative, and of course try to blend Tai Chi into it! You know your stuff and I look forward to following your channel!

  • @MegaHitman666
    @MegaHitman666 6 місяців тому +1

    Tai chi is the best method for stand-up grappling , the question is which style
    is the best , Yang or Chen ?

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +1

      Chen style develops more power and Yang style makes use of better mobility. It's good to go with what matches your personality!

    • @riptiz
      @riptiz 6 місяців тому

      Depends on the skill of the opponents.

    • @RowdyGrunt
      @RowdyGrunt 6 місяців тому

      Everything about this is terrible for grappling of any kind let alone stand up grappling. This is snake oil. Go into any basic grappling class and try it. Go ahead I dare you. A guy with two days of training will blow right through all this fascia Mastery snake oil

  • @riptiz
    @riptiz 6 місяців тому

    Similar to Aikido principles.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому

      I hadn't realize it before but the more I come to understand Tai Chi the more I appreciate Aikido as well!

  • @bobbader4789
    @bobbader4789 6 місяців тому

  • @TeShan-lf7kq
    @TeShan-lf7kq 6 місяців тому

    🙏🎸☯️🕉️

  • @stefanx5470
    @stefanx5470 6 місяців тому +1

    "My fascia control on his arm"... WTF does that even mean? Seriously, I am a huge devotee of Tai Chi, but I can't stand these BS make-believe videos. I'd like to see you try this even with a green belt from judo or BJJ or anyone with HS wrestling background.

    • @SovereignTea12345
      @SovereignTea12345 6 місяців тому +1

      I believe the gent in red has a blue belt in BJJ

    • @paularora4325
      @paularora4325 6 місяців тому

      Totally get hour frustration. Whenever you see videos of a so called tai chi master vs another martial artist they just get beaten. And yet I totally believe the stories of the old masters. Very confusing.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +5

      ​@@paularora4325Yes we who love these arts, what we really want is to bring these skills back to the world, do we not? I have an interesting personal story about this.
      Decades ago, I grew impatient with my Tai Chi teacher, in the way that young and impatient man can be right? So without telling my teacher, I started to go and study with a MMA teacher in the area. The MMA teacher was very nice, and very skilled, and taught me all the "practical" combat skills I wanted to learn.
      One day MMA teacher said to me, who did you study with before? I mentioned my teacher's name. And he said "oh! Oh! Well, don't give up then... You know what, your teacher is very special."
      "Oh yeah? He keeps making me do these ancient things and I still can't make it work."
      "Yes well, when I first came to this town and I opened my school, I went and visited every martial art school, bring tea, say hi, being a nice neighbor, you know?"
      Me, "yes?"
      Teacher, "well when I visited your teacher, I asked him how his art worked, and he said attack me, strong and serious. And when I did, he touched me and I flew up and back and fell on the ground. I asked him how he did it and he said he would not teach me. Of all the teacher's I visited here, that was the most remarkable skill!"
      Me, "oh really?!"
      Him, "yes! So I'm happy to keep teaching you MMA but you should not stop with your teacher. Because he has something amazing and apparently he is willing to teach you, so you're more lucky than me!"
      So while I was impatient, I was lucky. And my patience did get tested. It wasn't until another fifteen years before I understood and made a break through in understanding the internal arts!
      So I totally understand the frustration of people who appreciate the traditional Chinese martial arts. And this channel is very much born out of the desire to help people walk this journey, and reach the destination that they always believed existed, in much much less time than it took me.
      This series of vs videos are more advanced topics, and the concepts of fascia control, song, etc are addressed in the many other videos on this channel. I worked hard on them so that people can understand these esoteric principles. They will provide a basic understanding of the applications presented in this video. If one wants to learn to do all of these things in depth, there are formal, organized courses for that.
      I hope one day, many people will be masters of these skills, and use them, perhaps along with other skills they have, and do well in fights, and live fulfilling lives, and evolve this art. So that we not only bring back the stories, but go beyond them to a better future! So thank you for watching the videos and I hope bit by bit we can all grow together!

    • @stefanx5470
      @stefanx5470 6 місяців тому +1

      ​@@phoenixmountaintaichi
      You can't control fascia. Fascia is a passive structural element, fascia is not like muscles, which are active contractile elements under neuromuscular control; fascia is not activatable like muscles. You can't control fascia!!! I understand where you got that idea from, but you took the word "fascia" at face value and quote it literally; instead of really thinking about what that idea tries to convey (ancient text has no idea what fascia is). So off the bat, you are already demonstrating you utter lack of understanding of human anatomy, movement mechanism, and the essence of Tai Chi. By the way, the essence of Tai Chi is well documented. Well documented!!! And clearly you haven't bothered studying it.
      There is enough misinformation and polemic about Tai Chi, we don't need more snake oil.

    • @phoenixmountaintaichi
      @phoenixmountaintaichi  6 місяців тому +2

      ​@@stefanx5470 Actually, there is a whole field of study in rehabilitative medicine and physiotherapy about the role of fascia in the human movement system, and how controlling it can help people with difficulty with movement, whether it's from a stroke, a bodily injury, spinal cord injury, or other diseases, improve their awareness of their balance, maintain their balance, initiate their desired movement and complete their desired movement. These methods are called neurodevelopmental technique anfd proprioceptive neuromuscular feedback.
      By increasing the pressure on the fascia system (loading), decreasing the pressure on the fascia system (unloading), by guiding the activation of the muscle and fascia, and the directional activity of the fascia (facilitation), it helps people with difficulties in movement walk, move, and use their body like someone without such difficulties.
      These methods are taught as part of doctorate level training at accredited universities throughout the world, for physiotherapists, physical medicine, and rehabilitation medicine physicians. The validity of these methods are researched and published in high impact medical journals of the highest academic regard. Anyone can google PNF and NDT and movement disorder rehabilitation and see the vast amount of peer reviewed science that goes into the understanding of how to shape human movement with a light touch applied to the muscular system and the proprioceptive system, of which fascia is a crucial component of. I teach and successfully train graduate students earning their doctoral degree in these techniques, so my understanding of human anatomy and the movement system is quite professional and well respected as part of graduate level academic training.
      To the extent that in the application of these rehabilitative techniques, the practitioner gains a sense of their client's forces and balance, the same methodology forms a type of tingjin we use in Tai Chi. And to the extent that gentle manipulation of pressure and direction on the fascia can improve one's awareness of balance, maintenance of balance, ease of initiating movement, and accuracy of completing movement, the inverse effect can be created by reversing the intention and application, so that pressure on their fascia system decreases the opponent's awareness of balance, ability to maintain their balance, create difficulty in initiating movement, and alter the accuracy of their intended movement.
      I have successfully taught all of my in-person students to do this, and students who have studied our online course have reported success in doing these methods to practice partners and resisting opponents. Students of this fascia control have taken their success beyond our school and successfully applied it against resisting, unknowing opponents, including in BJJ competitions. One BJJ practitioner with ten years of experience successfully implemented this into their practice and reports that it feels like what some of the skilled black belts do, but have not taught.
      So while I understand that you, and many other people, have not controlled fascia before, I hope other people's success can be a source of inspiration for everyone. Because no one else is saying and teaching this. I see people doing it, masters of it even. But they're not teaching it. And I know there are people who love Tai Chi out there and I want people who genuinely love this art to achieve the skill that they've always known to be possible.
      Beyond that, I want for people who have not yet experienced, not yet understood Tai Chi, to be able to appreciate the beauty of this art. In time, I hope Tai Chi, technology of Tai Chi, benefits of Tai Chi, whether martial, health, or spiritual, to become a common place part of our understanding of combat, health, and spirituality. To the extent you provide a basis for this discussion, thank you very much. Because you may not be alone in feeling the way that you do, and I hope that people can grow beyond all that they have assumed, experience more than they have expected, and achieve something that is more beautiful than what they had imagined.

  • @RowdyGrunt
    @RowdyGrunt 6 місяців тому

    This stuff will ONLY get you hurt if you go up against a Grappler with more than a week of training. This is embarrassing to think that you would actually say this would work against a stand-up grappler. You do not have positional superiority at all whatsoever in any form. You're not remotely close. Your addressing nothing about those topics. Go to any beginning Grapplers class any of you. If you're buying this for self-defense or because you think that you have something offensive in this to use in a fight, you will only get yourself hurt. And yes I put my money where my mouth is. I'm in atlanta. I've gone through most of these videos and they're embarrassing to think that you would sell this is something of a fighting art. You have a professional and ethical responsibility to not mislead your students. And that's exactly what you're doing

    • @chessshyrecat
      @chessshyrecat 3 місяці тому

      So what you are saying is that the skill of the Grappler in red in this video is so embarrassingly bad that every other person in the whole world who is in the second week of training a Grappling art will destroy the guy in red and hurt him?