Ethernet (50th Birthday) - Computerphile

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  • Опубліковано 13 січ 2025
  • "Ethernet" was named because the inventor believed that the standard could transcend different types of media & 50 yrs on, we still use it! Dr Steve Bagley explains and demos the idea
    / computerphile
    / computer_phile
    This video was filmed and edited by Sean Riley.
    Computer Science at the University of Nottingham: bit.ly/nottsco...
    Computerphile is a sister project to Brady Haran's Numberphile. More at www.bradyharan.com

КОМЕНТАРІ • 233

  • @laurenlewis4189
    @laurenlewis4189 Рік тому +173

    The bit of expert improv at 5:50 that both Sean and Steve immediately picked up on was *chef's kiss*

    • @Dima-ht4rb
      @Dima-ht4rb Рік тому +8

      Or just done in editing :)

    • @Half_Finis
      @Half_Finis Рік тому +13

      @@Dima-ht4rb the guy on camera halts for half a second when camera guy starts speaking before he realises, so no its not editing

  • @elliotyu6573
    @elliotyu6573 Рік тому +71

    Steve's struggle with the sticker at 8:47 and Sean's strategic zoom-in was both clever and unintentionally hilarious

  • @lindavid1975
    @lindavid1975 Рік тому +69

    I worked with Sailesh Rao, the inventor of 1000 Base-T (802.3ab-1999) at Intel (and Level One) - every time I plug an Ethernet cable into a router. I remember him scribbling "the architecture of 4D-PAM5 encoding, with 4 lines each transferring 250 Mb/s" on a white board and saying, "give me the BER for this on CAT-5 - maybe use Matlab!"

  • @insu_na
    @insu_na Рік тому +387

    Bit sad how he didn't mention that once a collision is detected, all sending machines "scream" for a short amount of time to announce to everyone that a collision just occurred and retransmission would be attempted shortly

    • @reold
      @reold Рік тому +16

      That's pretty cool 😮

    • @samzx81
      @samzx81 Рік тому +32

      Haha I was worried he wouldn't mention that that type of connection was called a vampire tap.

    • @kphaxx
      @kphaxx Рік тому +5

      iirc, each host has its own random wait before screaming, right? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different collision-handling strategy or something else altogether. In any case, thanks for bringing it up 😂

    • @insu_na
      @insu_na Рік тому +23

      @@kphaxx nah, as soon as they detect the collision they start screaming a.k.a. broadcasting a jamming signal across the wire which is intended to disrupt all current transmissions and cause crc errors for all who receive them, making them discard the package as invalid.
      Ever since pretty much all networks are full-duplex, fully switched, there's been no real need for csma/cd anymore 🥲

    • @JonBailey
      @JonBailey Рік тому +8

      ​@@kphaxx correct. Each machine had a unique, effectively random MAC address, and so they'd each wait a unique period before a retransmit. This wouldn't be enough for some colliders, so they'd be honor-bound to exponentially increase their pause delays before re-trying. 10BASE2 was a trip. Then the 3com and Novell/Anthem ISA Ethernet cards came out cheap. You could plug a fiber MAU adapter dingus (Allied TeleSyn) and go between buildings without electrocuting everything.
      ’course once chatty stuff like Appletalk started filling the segment with chatter from everyone, it would be hard to get 5Mb throughput. Mercifully Kalpana invented the cheap (🤣) switch and things got way easier to wire up. I still loved having 4 friends bring over PCs for a lan party in the coax days 😹

  • @tomhekker
    @tomhekker Рік тому +57

    Great video. As a networking nerd I work with Ethernet all the time and it’s simplicity and yet it’s ingenuity always surprises me.

  • @SeanBZA
    @SeanBZA Рік тому +126

    Ethernet won out because the standard was free to use, and also did not need you to pay a license fee per card, unlike some of the competitors, like Token Ring, where you had to pay IBM for it, and Arcnet did not scale as well, even though it did use a very much cheaper cable, but in the end Ethernet would run on the same cables, and being low cost the cards got cheap fast, and of course got used a lot, so the peripherals grew fast, and the cost kept dropping. Still have the crimp tooling for Arcnet, which came in really handy doing CCTV work, as the connectors are almost completely compatible in most cases.

    • @user-qf6yt3id3w
      @user-qf6yt3id3w Рік тому +9

      There's an irritating meme that 'the worst standards win out'. Actually the most open standards win out. Now the initial version may lack some features compared to the more expensive proprietary alternative but later versions catch up and surpass that alternative pretty quickly. See for example USB vs Firewire and ISA/EISA vs MCA. Though admittedly with EISA was quickly replaced with PCI. Still PCI and USB have always been royalty free whereas Firewire and MCA both needed a license fee to implement. The latest versions of USB and PCI Express are still in use and massively outperform the last versions of Firewire and MCA, both of which have more or less disappeared.
      You can see this possibly happening again with RISC-V which is royalty free vs ARM (paid license) and x64(dual source but almost impossible for anyone else to license). If RISC-V lacks anything important it will just get added.
      The PC industry basically runs on royalty free standards and because everyone uses them any limitations tend to get worked around.

    • @redstone0234
      @redstone0234 Рік тому

      Same for AppleTalk was using vert cheap câbles (some adaptées run on téléphones câbles)
      But it wasn't open AT all (a IBM PC edition exists but was less common) and it didn't scale well (32 machine whithout resorting to hacks)

  • @BillySugger1965
    @BillySugger1965 Рік тому +58

    It would be amazing to make a video describing the CAN network used in modern vehicles and industrial automation. The csma/cd and bus arbitration techniques are simple and elegant, and the protocol is a superb illustration of how multi-drop networks can be implemented in embedded systems for sending and control.

    • @mizz1414
      @mizz1414 Рік тому +2

      As someone interested in CAN for 3D printing, I really want this, it's like wizardry

    • @BillySugger1965
      @BillySugger1965 Рік тому +1

      @@mizz1414 I used CAN in advanced medical systems, and it was superb!

    • @ddegn
      @ddegn Рік тому +5

      @@mizz1414 As you say, 3D printers are starting to use CAN. Hobby grade radio controlled aircraft are also using CAN. I have a flight controller which communicates with the GPS and the airspeed sensor using CAN.
      I have a general idea how CAN works but I'd also like to see a Computerphile video on the topic.

    • @savagesarethebest7251
      @savagesarethebest7251 10 місяців тому

      EtherCAT is interesting .used in industry like for robots, CNC and such. uses the same cables but different protocol. like RTOS but for network

  • @pev_
    @pev_ Рік тому +30

    I got a job as a researcher in one of my university's tech labs in 1997, and it was just the time when thick ethernet (10base5) was over and everybody was laying thin ethernet cables (10base2) through every PC, with the T-adapters and terminating resistors :) And then of course after some time we changed to 10baseT and it was at first somewhat puzzling having to have a separate cable for each PC. At first it was to hubs (sort of dummy repeaters) but later switches started to became the norm. Ahh the nostalgia!

    • @mytech6779
      @mytech6779 Рік тому

      Anyone still laying 10base2 in 1997 shouldn't have been employed long enough to change it to twisted pair. 10/100baseT was the common new installation format by then.

    • @James_Knott
      @James_Knott Рік тому

      Back in the spring of 1997, I was working on a contract job to convert the Ontario government offices from 10base2 to 10baseT.

    • @boballmendinger3799
      @boballmendinger3799 Рік тому

      Around 1990 or 1991, shortly after I started at the phone company, we installed cabling for a new insurance company building. We ran a 25 pair and a thinnet to each desk.

  • @martingallagher1780
    @martingallagher1780 Рік тому +9

    I have a memory of reading a Usenet post where one of the original ethernet designers said if he could change one thing in 10base5 it would be the slide lock connectors on the drop cables. That made me smile, we had lots of hassles with them.

  • @joncarter3761
    @joncarter3761 Рік тому +16

    Bus networks really take me back, I remember in my first year at senior school having an IT room full of Acorn Archimedes and if we all logged on at the same time it would seriously slow down and eventually would crash the whole network! I think we were using Acorn proprietary cables though instead of ethernet and it was running on Acorn's EcoNet standard.

  • @AlphaYellow
    @AlphaYellow Рік тому +45

    Xerox PARC came up with some of the best tech innovations of all time, Ethernet is high up there.

    • @weksauce
      @weksauce Рік тому +4

      Really wanna work at a PARC or Bell Labs. There's no meaningfully-sized pool of jobs at a similar monopoly-sponsored R&D facility that I'm aware of in the US today.

    • @Robstafarian
      @Robstafarian Рік тому

      How many of those innovations have been ascribed to Apple since? :P

    • @weksauce
      @weksauce Рік тому

      @@Robstafarian None?

    • @Robstafarian
      @Robstafarian Рік тому

      @@weksauce I can think of two, the mouse and the desktop-metaphor GUI, which have been ascribed to Apple countless times.

    • @weksauce
      @weksauce Рік тому

      @@Robstafarian Hmmm, I've only ever heard that Jobs went to PARC and incorporated some of the underlying things into Apple, never that Apple invented them. Who is doing this innumerable (and wrong) ascription?

  • @c1ph3rpunk
    @c1ph3rpunk Рік тому +6

    Thank heavens they didn’t stick to the DIX name.
    The recent CHM panel video is truly excellent.
    Yes, vampire taps weren’t friendly and often resulted in a trip to find bandages. AUI connectors we’re still used quite a bit into the mid, and even late, 90’s, especially on what we now call MDF switches.
    Also, promiscuous mode is a modern concept, switches didn’t exist originally, only hubs and bridges. You could see everything, everywhere from anywhere.
    And of course, 10-BASE-T, full-duplex with separate TX/RX pairs into switches (instead of hubs) ultimately all but eliminated collisions.

  • @cferrarini
    @cferrarini Рік тому +2

    My dad installed many Arcnet networks with twisted pair. We had a nice Indiana Jones Poster, with whip in hand, fighting network cables like snakes. It was Titled, Raiders of the lost Arcnet! Probably contemporary of the film, it would be great to find it.

  • @piercebros
    @piercebros Рік тому +2

    Superb video! Happy 50th, Ethernet.

  • @mfbfreak
    @mfbfreak Рік тому +19

    The resiliency of modern ethernet is impressive. It'll run even without all wires connected. At a certain point i was running it on some weird 6 wire intercom or phone cable that i have no idea of, how it ended up on my PC.
    It did explain why i wasn't getting the usual speed.
    Another interesting occurance was when i suffered from a lot of radio interference. Took me until i noticed my ethernet connection was running at 10mbit that i re-inserted the plug, and the interference was gone. Evidently again not all of the contacts of the plug made good contact, making it a non-paired cable, radiating tons of RF hash.
    Aside from those freak issues, wired ethernet has been that old, rock solid technology that just works all the time. Only thing that sucks is trying to make your own cables with low budget tools.

    • @charlieangkor8649
      @charlieangkor8649 Рік тому +6

      Actually only 2 pairs out of 4 are needed for 100 Mbps Ethernet.

  • @Einar-Indrida
    @Einar-Indrida Рік тому +1

    I just love it at around 03:30 ... they have images of the BBC machine (sans monitor) connected to each other!

  • @JxH
    @JxH Рік тому +3

    Even today, I'm still using scrapped 30+ year old 10BASE2 networking cables (with BNC connectors) to build antennas and use as radio feedlines. I grabbed a lifetime supply when it was being thrown out.

  • @tomschmidt381
    @tomschmidt381 Рік тому +1

    In the beginning of the video I'm so focused on UTP and switches it tool a while to realize he was talking about the original thick wire and vampire taps. Great overview about early Ethernet.

  • @TheMohawkNinja
    @TheMohawkNinja Рік тому +5

    That cybersecurity lab environment looks like a lot of fun. A designated "red" and "blue" sides with a retractable padded wall to keep the teams apart during labs.

  • @Ttamlin
    @Ttamlin Рік тому +4

    Still use RJ8 coax cable in some situations! Just a couple years ago I installed an internal LTE network in an office building, and all the antennas and their controllers were wired up using RJ8. A couple miles of the stuff, all told, though none of the runs were more than a couple hundred feet. It was quite the job, because that cable ain't light lol. Glad I don't have to do that again, in-wall structured CAT6 is enough of a PITA for me!

  • @mausmalone
    @mausmalone Рік тому +2

    Hey as an American let me just say, go ahead and use metric exclusively. The types of people who would voluntarily click on a video about the 50th anniversary of Ethernet are going to be fine thinking about and understanding meters.

  • @phildxyz
    @phildxyz Рік тому +4

    We always called them bee-sting connectors. The thick coax was the 'backbone' and then thinner coax was used to connect to the computers via BNC connectors. If you unplugged the wrong BNC connector all the downstream computers went off line! Happy days :)

  • @michaelcarey
    @michaelcarey Рік тому +1

    Great video! My first network at home was a 10base2 beast in 1994 . Two PCs running Windows for Workgroups 3.11 equipped with ex rental NE2000 clone network cards. I ran the RG58 coax on the floor along skirting boards.

  • @dawidcham
    @dawidcham Рік тому +8

    It became popular precisely because you could freely plug or unplug a machine without bringing down the network

  • @MorrisTart
    @MorrisTart Рік тому

    Ethernet, or the Thin Ethernet developed later was the basis of my career working for a DEC Distributor in the late 80's, configuring & specifying ethernet cards & minicomputers, routers, repeaters, bridges and software. I even designed a colour graphic info "Configurator" to show off and sell all the kit DEC made for Ethernet.

  • @pervasivedoubt150
    @pervasivedoubt150 Рік тому +3

    Switching seems like a much more elegant solution for collisions but of course that would be obvious in hindsight. They put a lot of work into solving that problem!
    Awesome to see the birth of a technology we all still rely on

    • @JoQeZzZ
      @JoQeZzZ Рік тому +3

      But it also takes processing power, whereas this doesn't.

    • @vylbird8014
      @vylbird8014 Рік тому +5

      Wasn't practical at the time - couldn't make the performance in software, or make hardware cheap enough. The specialised type of memory needed was the problem.
      There was a device that came before switches: The bridge. Basically a two-port switch, which you used to connect two hubs (or runs of 10base2) together.

    • @johndododoe1411
      @johndododoe1411 Рік тому

      Switching doesn't work for wireless or other real shared medium . Because there's no switch between computer and medium.

    • @JoQeZzZ
      @JoQeZzZ Рік тому

      @@johndododoe1411 switches for wireless exist as long as seperate frequencies are used. Wireless mesh networks work based on switching, for example.

    • @stevenemert837
      @stevenemert837 Рік тому

      @@JoQeZzZ And memory for buffering the packets, especially in dual-speed 10/100 Mbps switches I remember the original SynOptics Lattisnet 16 port 28115 Ethernet switch. About the size of a VCR and ten times heavier with all the 1K memory chips in it.

  • @terrymackenzie6784
    @terrymackenzie6784 Рік тому

    Thanks for the trip down memory lane a lot of my youth was spent working all that stuff. At the time i wasn't totally convinced and then in 1977 i saw Star Wars and the hole picture came into focus 😊

  • @zapa1pnt
    @zapa1pnt Рік тому +6

    "The one network, to rule them all, even though it's not a ring network."
    The fact he said it..... Groan.
    The fact they left in the video....... O...M...G!
    Nerds! 🙄🙄🙄

  • @marksterling8286
    @marksterling8286 Рік тому +2

    Ethernet relay came into its own when network switching became affordable. Then with full duplex no collisions. A bus network that became a star or hub spoke network.

  • @TempestofTime
    @TempestofTime 8 місяців тому

    Just.. brilliant. Thank you

  • @nutsnproud6932
    @nutsnproud6932 Рік тому +1

    My first network was with coax cables and properly soldered BNC connectors, T pieces and terminators. I still use it on three old computers.

  • @paulusvii97
    @paulusvii97 Рік тому +3

    "weird inches and feet" PSA Brits, Canadians, and Australians aren't allowed to be snarky about units if you measure weight in stone and use other imperial units in everyday life.

  • @linuxguy1199
    @linuxguy1199 Рік тому +1

    Watching this video through a 1000Base-T that goes to a switch where it goes over a 1000Base-SX fiber then to another switch where it goes to a 10GBase-SR to my router where it goes back down to a 1000Base-T and then to my ISP via a 1000Base-EX. Long live Ethernet!

  • @connclissmann6514
    @connclissmann6514 Рік тому

    Many thanks. I learned lots. Thanks also to PARK, who by now must be owed a medal of honour from the USA government or president for their contribution on so many levels.

  • @sean_vikoren
    @sean_vikoren Рік тому +4

    I was wiring offices when there were many standards. Ethernet was the most reliable network, by far.

  • @WatchTower71
    @WatchTower71 Рік тому +4

    Aged like fine wine

  • @forbiddenera
    @forbiddenera Рік тому +1

    I don't miss hubs and their collision light. Thank goodness for switches.

  • @cornjulio4033
    @cornjulio4033 Рік тому +1

    Happy Birthday Ethernet, we love you 😍

  • @mytech6779
    @mytech6779 Рік тому +1

    The newer standards above 1Gb have dropped the collision detection overhead and require fully switched subnets(No systems using those speeds would use a shared bus anyway.).

  • @lanatrzczka
    @lanatrzczka Рік тому

    Hahaha you guys. Adlibbed the two computers talking at the same time and didn't even crack a smile.

  • @stub1116
    @stub1116 Рік тому

    Brilliant video.

  • @synestetic1687
    @synestetic1687 Рік тому +1

    Collisions are NOT detected by detecting corrupted data. Collisions are detected by the cable having DOUBLE VOLTAGE since two carriers are interfering! Then all stations have the responsibility to shout collision! It's an ANALOG process, not digital. The stations don't need to store and compare date to detect a collision. Remember which decade we're talking about!!

  • @olivier2553
    @olivier2553 Рік тому +3

    Installing vampire taps was fun, specialized tools and all, we all love tools.
    Do you have a link to the original memo? It looks like one of those fun RFCs of h past.

  • @PebblesChan
    @PebblesChan Рік тому +1

    Ethernet with Demand Priority Tokens was invented by HP & was called 100VG-ANYLAN. It was conceptually sound but a commercial failure due to its expense.

  • @gushiperson
    @gushiperson Рік тому +1

    No mention for David Boggs, recently passed away?

  • @DoctorDucky250
    @DoctorDucky250 Рік тому +1

    I love learning about networking.

  • @jeromethiel4323
    @jeromethiel4323 Рік тому +5

    I did a lot of vampire tapping to AUI converters. UTP is so much easier and better.
    Like all computer technology, you came up with something that worked, and hoped it became the standard. When it did, no matter the shortcomings, it was the thing you did.

  • @marklonergan3898
    @marklonergan3898 Рік тому +2

    As soon as the diagram started i had flashbacks to today's numberphile video. Coincidence that you're both touching the same topic?

  • @dehb1ue
    @dehb1ue Рік тому

    Those sharp spikes make me think about a title for a documentary or history book, “Blood and Ethernet”

  • @9a3eedi
    @9a3eedi Рік тому +1

    I wonder if it's possible to make a bus network with twisted pair cables, without needing additional electronics. Like just get a bunch of cat 5, and make T junctions through the wires inside. Ethernet the protocol should be able to work with that, right? Might be useful in a pinch.

  • @artur8403
    @artur8403 Рік тому

    Shared wires are still in use. Canbus in vehicles, modbus on power lines

  • @SirHackaL0t.
    @SirHackaL0t. Рік тому

    I remember token ring from when I worked at American Express in Brighton. It solved the issue of collisions as your computer could only talk if it had the token.

    • @stevenemert837
      @stevenemert837 Рік тому

      But Token Ring had it's own host of problems. And lots of small steps to speed it up. Going from 4 Mbps to 16 Mbps, add in Early Token Release and some schemes to allow as many as four tokens alive on the ring simultaneously if I recall. Thank goodness Ethernet took over before they tried Token Ring faster than 16 Mbps. Hmm... FDDI was sort of that though, wasn't it? A 100 Mbps ring topology.

  • @anthonybateman8470
    @anthonybateman8470 Рік тому +4

    From Ethernet to SkyNet in 50 years. Not bad.

  • @zeromega
    @zeromega Рік тому +3

    happy birthday ethernet

  • @jayturner5242
    @jayturner5242 Рік тому

    I didn't know Computerphile was based in Nottingham! I'd love to pick your brains!

  • @Teukka72
    @Teukka72 Рік тому

    *raises glass* Happy Birthday, Ethernet!

  • @ChrisSeltzer
    @ChrisSeltzer Рік тому +1

    A big part of Ethernet winning was that the token ring networks which were competing with them had highly restrictive licensing fees.

  • @sectorx20
    @sectorx20 Рік тому +1

    I have worked with a variety of networks in the past, but none compare to Ethernet.

  • @CharlesOttman
    @CharlesOttman Рік тому +1

    A friend of mine referred 10-base-5 as "frozen yellow garden hose". 🙂

    • @chuckygobyebye
      @chuckygobyebye Рік тому

      I've always heard it called 'yellow snake'.

    • @CharlesOttman
      @CharlesOttman Рік тому

      @@chuckygobyebye My friend was from a part of the country where winter is a thing. If you've ever left your garden hose outside when the temperature drops it takes on properties not far from that 10-base-5 cable.

  • @ZT1ST
    @ZT1ST Рік тому +2

    @7:48; Wait - so Ethernet was supposed to be essentially a similar naming intent as "Cloud computing" has?
    That's interesting - and something I hadn't considered until you mention that there.

  • @martinh9099
    @martinh9099 Рік тому

    where on earth do they get that line printer paper from? I haven't seen that stuff since the 1990's!!

  • @rufioh
    @rufioh Рік тому

    Hypothetically can you still have a Bus for modern connections then? Like port 1 on a switch has an ethernet cable which gets tapped by two devices for example?

  • @WesHampson
    @WesHampson Рік тому

    Funny how the problem of connecting computers together is very similar to the problem discussed in the Brick Factory video that was just uploaded on the other channel!

  • @dfmayes
    @dfmayes Рік тому +1

    I'm old enough to remember the cable piercing method.

  • @wuuht
    @wuuht Рік тому +1

    So what are example of the first setup he drew with a cable for every machine?

    • @Computerphile
      @Computerphile  Рік тому +1

      Something like a Super Computer / Cluster or multi processor machine I suspect -Sean

  • @droopy992001
    @droopy992001 Рік тому

    03:56. My company actually recently released a new software revision - It has been Rev A, Rev B, Rev C, and now Rev 4. No joke.

  • @ifordarby-hoskin4096
    @ifordarby-hoskin4096 Рік тому

    I can remember installing these and getting serial printers to work using netcat. RS422 was a nightmare

  • @rickintexas1584
    @rickintexas1584 Рік тому

    This brings back memories. I ran my first Ethernet cables to connect some VAX machines back in the 80s. The big debate back then was Ethernet versus token ring. Ethernet won.

  • @nosleep7026
    @nosleep7026 Рік тому

    i love it, thank you

  • @velho6298
    @velho6298 Рік тому +2

    I was really confused at the 6:00 mark! Media access is quite the important component

    • @AcornElectron
      @AcornElectron Рік тому +2

      I believe it was a simple lampoon.

    • @eadweard.
      @eadweard. Рік тому

      ​@@AcornElectron "Simple lampoon"?

  • @BobAxiom
    @BobAxiom Рік тому +5

    “Even though it’s not a ring network…” I see you, combo-nerd! 😉

    • @eadweard.
      @eadweard. Рік тому

      Pls explain.

    • @BobAxiom
      @BobAxiom Рік тому +2

      @@eadweard. one network to rule them all = a Lord of the Rings reference. “Even though it’s not a ring network” which is a reference to a much more limited network technology than the Ethernet topic of discussion.
      So he is a combination of Tolkein and networking nerds 🙂

    • @eadweard.
      @eadweard. Рік тому +1

      @@BobAxiom oh yes I see thank you.

  • @SteveLFBO
    @SteveLFBO Рік тому

    We used to love shouting "don't step on the vampire!" when anyone got near the 10B5 boxes :-P

  • @romanemul1
    @romanemul1 Рік тому +1

    06:00 - 06:05 there is an audio sample that shouldnt be there.

    • @VincentGroenewold
      @VincentGroenewold Рік тому +4

      / woosh

    • @vicmac3513
      @vicmac3513 Рік тому +3

      It is there on purpose. I'd say it was a genius add-on.

    • @Computerphile
      @Computerphile  Рік тому +6

      Thanks, it's not even added on, I spoke over him live :) -Sean

    • @DrSteveBagley
      @DrSteveBagley Рік тому

      @@Computerphile these auteurs…

  • @mentalizatelo
    @mentalizatelo Рік тому

    Basically all modern systems and the way we engage to them (including GUI and the mouse), are from Xerox.

  • @geekgee
    @geekgee Рік тому

    I started my IT career with 10Base2 aka RG58 aka cheapernet. Ah, the good old days. 😉

  • @whiskeysk
    @whiskeysk Рік тому

    what is the exact network card model in the Atari Mega ST, pretty please?

  • @TheStevenWhiting
    @TheStevenWhiting Рік тому

    1:24 Would quite like to be in that lab.

  • @MonochromeWench
    @MonochromeWench Рік тому +5

    I'd guess Ethernet ended up winning because of the Ne1000 and NE2000 PC network cards and clones They gave cheap networking for dos and Windows right when people were really starting to need/want networking. They were cheap enough they even managed to enter the consumer market. They were what you needed for Doom giving huge Marketshare to ethernet

  • @igorschmidlapp6987
    @igorschmidlapp6987 Рік тому

    And, whenever Ethernet failed, we resorted to "Sneakernet", which meant walking a floppy with the files over to the other machine, and manually loading/copying it... ;-)

  • @mountp1391
    @mountp1391 Рік тому

    Thanks for video. Ehternet

  • @aut0turret
    @aut0turret Рік тому

    Never have seen 10BASE5 before. Noice. It was part of a class I took way back in 2009, but never actually saw any of the equipment.

  • @NorthWay_no
    @NorthWay_no Рік тому

    Happy International Amiga Day. I remember the IBM storage ring architecture, rings were a cool idea but switches solved the problem for ethernet and that was that.

  • @CM-mo7mv
    @CM-mo7mv Рік тому

    24:17 bandwidth? 🤔 are you sure?

  • @moistness482
    @moistness482 Рік тому

    Adding another computer and connecting it to all the previous ones makes the number of cabels grow quadratically if I'm not mistaken.

  • @DomyTheMad420
    @DomyTheMad420 Рік тому +1

    y'all wanna be horrified?
    Ask some 14-21 year old techies for ethernet cables.
    and find out the fools don't have them lol

    • @charlieangkor8649
      @charlieangkor8649 Рік тому +1

      All their data traffic passes over Tiktok via carefully modulated twerking.

  • @wisteela
    @wisteela Рік тому

    Long live Ethernet

  • @travelthetropics6190
    @travelthetropics6190 Рік тому

    When I was first trying to setup a home network with 2 PCs, I asked a friend to being a network card and he has bought a Token ring card instead of a Ethernet card. I still have that card somewhere.

  • @johng.1703
    @johng.1703 Рік тому

    sounds like he is describing 10Base-5 (thick net) / 10Base-2 (thin Net) or other coax based networks.
    I wonder is that the origins of the AUI port?

  • @marianaldenhoevel7240
    @marianaldenhoevel7240 Рік тому +1

    How does the vampire tap not short all three teeth to the shielding?

    • @mattsadventureswithart5764
      @mattsadventureswithart5764 Рік тому +1

      The installing tech would cut away a small part of the outer sheath and the shield, if I understand what I read (years ago) on the subject.
      Happy to be corrected if someone knows better.

    • @u1f98a
      @u1f98a Рік тому

      I assume the longer pin wouldn't be conductive throughout its entire length

    • @charlieangkor8649
      @charlieangkor8649 Рік тому

      I would ask how reliable the just touching, not soldered, connection would be after 10 years in a tropical country.

  • @abdullaalmosalami
    @abdullaalmosalami Рік тому

    The discussion of collision handling with Ethernet here has got me thinking of CAN, and I don't know if anybody has more insights to add here but it seems to me that CAN has better collision handling than Ethernet. There are error counters, arbitration by the electrical "open collector" style of the transceivers, and messages can be prioritized accordingly.
    Aside from that, the main difference practically speaking between the two network protocols that I can think of off the top of my head is the supported distance by CAN transceivers + protocol standards (I think it's 40m or less) and the speed limitation (I think the most I've seen is 2Mbit/s) compared to Ethernet.

    • @thisnthat3530
      @thisnthat3530 Рік тому +1

      CAN collision detection is better because the higher priority sender can continue to transmit and its data isn't corrupted. With Ethernet, _all_ transmissions are corrupted and must cease when a collision occurs, wasting bandwidth.

    • @abdullaalmosalami
      @abdullaalmosalami Рік тому

      @@thisnthat3530 Ah okay. Yeah wow that is quite wasteful!

  • @johndododoe1411
    @johndododoe1411 Рік тому +1

    I remember having Ethernet with external AUI boxes at our high school in 1985 .

  • @TemesgenTiruneh-b1m
    @TemesgenTiruneh-b1m 5 місяців тому

    perfect

  • @werdna2231
    @werdna2231 Рік тому +1

    I wish the collision detection mechanism was discussed in greater depth. Because, if a device is transmitting at the same time it is receiving, wouldn't it just hear its own transmission? Perhaps this topic requires an electrical engineer to explain.

    • @johndododoe1411
      @johndododoe1411 Рік тому +6

      Each transmission raises the cable voltage by 1V when sending a high bit . If two machines try, there will be moments at 2V, and they both know they messed up . Then they wait a random time each so on next try, one will be first .

    • @synestetic1687
      @synestetic1687 Рік тому +5

      Yes, the collision detection is not digital, it's analog. It's done by detecting abnormally high signal voltages when two carriers are interfering. That's why you see collision lights blinking constantly when you remove terminators at the end of the cable - reflections from the end of the cable have a similar effect. In the video it is said that a collision is detected by comparing sent data with self-received data , but that would be needlessly complex for 1970's technology.

  • @user-qf6yt3id3w
    @user-qf6yt3id3w Рік тому

    "They react to the state of the room and I shall leave it that"
    Oh come on. You've got to explain that.

  • @bigpickles
    @bigpickles Рік тому +2

    Steve you're looking healthy, mate! Lost a lot of weight. Best wishes!

  • @WistrelChianti
    @WistrelChianti Рік тому

    The year is 2043... Steve has finally run out of the Line Printer paper roll from the late nineties...

  • @douglasboyle6544
    @douglasboyle6544 Рік тому

    10:46 "You wouldn't have this sort of running behind the computer" Ha ha ha, ha ha ha ha ha, HA HA HA HA....no, we NEVER did that 🤣

  • @bluegizmo1983
    @bluegizmo1983 Рік тому

    Wow, I haven't seen dot matrix printer paper in forever! I didn't know they still made that stuff 😂

    • @pev_
      @pev_ Рік тому +5

      I'm not sure they do, but I'm sure that big universities still have tons of that stuff in storerooms sitting obsolete, so it is a nice doodle medium for whatever nerdy needs :)

    • @russellpengilley5924
      @russellpengilley5924 Рік тому +3

      I think it's still made, you can buy it, often called continuous feed paper.
      It's often used in low maintenance applications, it somewhat simplifies the infeed and outfeed with lower chance of feed errors, you can print partial pages without wasting the rest of the paper or risking a power cut while waiting for a whole page of data and if used with an impact printer the ribbon runs out slowly.
      The kind of application that is checked once per day, like printing out transaction logs at the back of a warehouse.

  • @DanielLiljeberg
    @DanielLiljeberg Рік тому

    How far backwards compatible is ethernet? If one took an ethernet cable today and connected multiple computers to it would it work or have all of the work to make that function been left by the road side so everything would break?

    • @DrSteveBagley
      @DrSteveBagley Рік тому +2

      Very - I’ve plugged that machine (late 80s ATari MegaST) and others (Acorn Archimedes) connected via 10base2 Ethernet onto our local LAN (via a 10mbit 10baseT hub to convert)
      Having said that, modern switches are starting to abandon support for 10Mbit Ethernet. Unsurprising really, I suspect any 10mbit network would be swamped by the amount of traffic on a modern Ethernet.
      The original PARC 3MBit/s stuff wouldn’t interoperate since the packets are different (8bit addresses instead of 48-bit for instances)… Ken Shirriff has some good blog posts about hooking an Alto’s Ethernet connection up to modern gear using a Beaglebone Black.😊

    • @MaddTheSane
      @MaddTheSane Рік тому

      Remember: ethernet is the connector. TCP is just one protocol that uses ethernet.
      Granted, my Power Mac 7600/133 can only do 10base-T half-duplex, but it has no problem connecting with the rest of the network (including internet).

  • @exponentmantissa5598
    @exponentmantissa5598 Рік тому +1

    Just as a note. If you tried to connect via the T connections you showed the network would not function. Each tap would act like a tuning stub. Instead there was a T BNC connector on the network card - the cable came in one side and went out the other. The network was terminated with 50 ohm connectors to stop end reflections due to impedance mismatch.

    • @stevenemert837
      @stevenemert837 Рік тому +1

      Yeah! When 10Base-2 was popular I was a network guy for a mainframe company. In a large data center we'd just started using Ethernet-connected PCs for the mainframe console terminal. During installation one of the mainframe techs figured he's make the installation real neat and keep the Ethernet bus cable under the raised floor and have short stubs connecting from the BNC T-connector under the floor to the BNC connector on the PC NIC. Obviously it didn't work. I had to burst his bubble and made him run the cable up from under the floor to BNC T connectors right at the NIC. Not nearly as pretty, but it worked.