Poly V's Wood Hives!!
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- In this video I talk about the big question polystyrene hives or timber hives.
This is a big debate and some beekeepers have very strong views on the subject!
As a user or both I try my best to come up with an honest answer that is fact based.
Hope you enjoy the video. - Навчання та стиль
Great comparison Gwenyn.
Think the best way to consider an answer is to think rirst what bees prefer in the wild where they are free to choose.
In the wild when they choose a tree the trunk would typically have an R value (termal resistance) of around 7 on the side and way on top which stops condensation forming from above.
A standard British hive with 3/4 inch walls has an R value of about 1.
Poly hives, depending on foam density and wall thickness, typically have R values averaging 5-7 so as a bee it is an obvious answer to which one they prefer. They consume far less food in winter, and come out of winter with much greater numbers.
Aesthetically totally agree poly hives look terrible and the plastic ones which have dense foam pumped in ook even worse. Feel the simple answer is to make simple hollow hives using thin shiplap treated boarding on the exterior and thin cedar pine on the inside. This could be filled with dense foam to bring R value to around 7.
Each box would fit over each other like poly hives so no ingress of water from sides as with wooden hives.
Weight would be slightly heavier than foam but less than wood. The result is strong long lasting hive which look great, can be blow torch scorched, have a long life, look great and most importantly offer year round comfort for bees so they are warm in winter and cool in summer. Great for more honey production, due to no bearding or fanning, plus active for longer season. Also less food requirement in winter plus better hygiene due to more cleansing flights. In well insulated hives bees often take cleansing flights as low as 40 degrees F. In hives without insulation they will stay in hive if temperature is below 50 degrees F.
It's an absolute no brainer to choose a warmer hive and am suprised wooden kits are not available to attach to outer sides of poly hives to improve appearance and slightly strengthen...
Excellent review. Our local bee supply provider just introduced the polystyrene hives to our area. I had never heard of them. Your commentary is valuable to me.
Ifind that trying to help the bees maintain an appropriate environment in their hives to be stressful. In Ontario, we have hot, hot summers and sometimes very cold winters. Trying to decide how to insulate the bees can be tricky. I feel that the polystyrene will be the answer to my never ending debate in my head. Thank goodness. I won’t have to change much from summer to winter. Btw, we use plastic corrugated wraps around our hives here for winter wrap-up and that isn’t environmentally friendly. We have to tape all of the seams and lift the whole hive off of the bottom board and replace it with a solid one, for winter. All of this is extra work and expense.
Here in Australia the issue is mainly the heat and not so much the cold. Most of the amateurs use timber and some commercial guys do as well, but the 20% to 25% greater output and the savings on assembly labour with the polystyrene make it a no brainer and most of the commercial bee keepers here have swung over to polystyrene, heck they more than pay for themselves first season of use.
Sentimental Bloke i can see why they would go for poly. Lot of big pros for doing so. 😊
I would love to use polystyrene hives….but we have badgers nearby. They ripped my hen house open like it was a sweetie wrapper. Poly doesn’t have a chance.
Definitely not badger proof
I use both, got 2 poly hives and 3 wood. Only just completed 1 yr so results are not in yet. Poly hives seem to be quicker out of the blocks after winter (not that we have had a proper winter) and I look forward to this season and my prospective honey collections. Keep up the good work, diolch yn fawr.
Andy Leonard Diolch Andy!! Keep us updated here with your outcome!! 😊
We leave our winter wrapped groups of four wrapped as long as the water is cool at night .
It helps with build up as it acts like a brood factory .
Not being able to slide the foam hives together to keep each other warm is the biggest turn off for me .
Winter gets to weeks of -40cand lower here in central Saskatchewan .
Poly for me every time. I think the further north you go, the more evident the benefits become. Bees will thrive in any conditions though and there isnt much in it. I find spring build up is the biggest benefit for using poly.
Black Mountain Honey I’m a big fan of both. More a timber man in full size hives but definitely a poly man when it comes to nucs. No doubt both a great materials for making beehives! Why not use both! 😊
@@gwenyngruffydd Yep. I'm not precious about the material tbh. I have loads of wooden supers but just prefer poly overall. You are right. Some beekeepers are very precious over the choice of material. I do always dread moving big wooden hives when loaded with double brood and honey though. Poly is SO much lighter.
Black Mountain Honey that’s 100% right!! Neither would I!!
Black Mountain Honey it’s a massive benefit of poly.
You could use the Poly for the brood box and super with wood. Especially if you leave the single brood boxes in the field over winter, the poly will be superior for keeping the colony warm in the cold. If you never really move the brood box, the wear and tear will be minimal and you could still use mechanical implements for moving the supers on to trucks and whatnot.
Yes that would work. Would definitely help. Great point 😊👍🏻👍🏻
Another fascinating video, your passion for your bees is a credit to you - from my none expert opinion I would always go for wood, so glad you use majority wood hives. Hope the bees are coping with our current bad weather.
Iain Dennis thank you for the kind messages Iain😊. They are doing ok at the moment but I really want this stormy weather to pass over and get some spring heat and sunshine!! ☀️
Gwenyn Gruffydd - I’m in Bristol in front of my fire - burning Welsh anthracite coal - I’ve had enough of winter - I envy you your Rayburn, I imagine that is a life saver for you.
Iain Dennis absolutely!! Could not live without it now. It can burn wood or coal. But we use wood as it’s free!! 😊
Good job on the video mate, I feel some of it was repeated somewhat but a great presentation of the two. (oh and put your website link in your description)
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback...really appreciate it. Will do. just in case you haven't found it its www.gwenyngruffydd.co.uk
While watching this video I thought One big plus for poly hives is Nuc's, not many wooden ones used.
A 9 frame brood box isnt that big an issue
My concern is what is the r value especially where the handles are cut forgot the extra cost of a styro hive and a super costs 2x as much as wood
20 thousand more for one thousand boxes
We slide 4 hives together and wrap them in r20 as a goup to keep the bees warm in -40 weather
Styro fails in group wrapping .
How much more honey .
4 hives touching is definately warmer than hives standing alone .
In warm climate styro would be nice . With a few hives
In cold wood is superior . Especially as a commercial beekeeper .
Hi Gwenyn great vlog,we are 50 50 on either getting a polystyrene hives next time,as we have 2 wooden once’s at this minute and 1 polystyrene nuc box,I think at this present time we will get another couple of wooden once’s as we like the environmental part of bee keeping ,but if we grow bigger we might get the odd polystyrene one,thanks so much ,for all points about either hives.👍🐝
Your welcome 😊 thanks for watching.
Very nice to hear a balanced view of the pros & cons. I’m happy with wood & am content to live with the associated compromises. Clearly there’s a place for both types. Look forward to seeing some images of both varieties you have later in the year. Another nice upload. P.S. in addition to using a piece of insulation on the top of your wooden hives, do you use a canvas or aluminium sheet ? I’ve seen a variety of materials used. Would be interesting to hear your take on what goes under your lid (if anything) and why. Thanks.
Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes I do put insulation under the roof on the timber hives. I use a 1" sheet of kingspan. Its foil coated insulation sheet that you would use in your house. Works great under the roof.
I cut it so it's the same measurements as the crown board. Thats the best material to use in my opinion.
Glad your following the channel.
Gwenyn Gruffydd Thanks ! Will check it out.
Poly can be recycled if you take it to your local recycling centre. So is a case of disposing of it responsibly.
Cleaning, an old oil drum bleachy water as you said poly boxes in and weigh down with a brick and do something else.
Looks yes wood looks great, poly painted in a colour of choice looks just as good.
As ever great film..👍👍
Danny Spence thanks Danny 😊 you are absolutely correct they can be recycled. But as the hive will be painted in most cases the paint will need to be removed before recycling. Still easily achievable but takes more energy to do. Personally I really like the look on a nicely painted poly hive too 😊 but I have had a lot of feedback from people who don’t like them. Thanks for the comment 😊 really appreciate it👍🏻
And old wood hives can heat your house
Physics says different. Poly's actually work better than wood in the summer as insulation works both ways. When the bees are drying the nectar they need to use far less energy (read nectar) to keep the hive at a high temperature for long periods. That's why I get such big harvests off my poly hives.
simon cavill that’s true and I state that in the video. Poly hives will produce more honey.
The poly’s only advantage is the insulation, would be great if they can invest wooden hives with insulation inside it somehow
Great idea 👍🏻
Another excellent video. I don't care much about the debate about weather to insulate or not because 2 beekeepers will generally have 3 opinions. If as you eluded to in your video a beek is willing to learn from the bees then it becomes quite obvious from results that insulated hives are better for the bees. NO DEBATE ! Cheap easy to repair and durable hives are better for the beekeeper no doubt but I prefer to do what is best for the bees in my charge while at the same time being aesthetically pleasing and functional. I build a wooden cavity surrounded by sheep's wool , reeds , shavings , straw or even poly-iso and EXP or EXT ploy insulation . Then wrap the box with an outter skin of wood . My boxes don't have the convenience for lifting of light single wall wood or poly but they are from my experience with both better for the bees and honey production is increased. I can scorch the inside of my hives to sterilize as well. I know my approach won't fit most beeks fancy for reasons of weight , expense or labor and quite frankly , a lot of beekeepers simply see the bees as stock to be profited from be dazzle the cost to the bees themselves but I discovered long ago that a well cared for bee colony , cow herd , sheep flock or herb garden will return the most reward for both the wallet and your conscience . Again , thank you very much for another enjoyable video . Cheers ! Gary Harp
Great points Gary and very true. Look after the bees and the bees will look after you! Same with any animal! Spot on!! 😊👍🏻👍🏻
What holds all the insulation in place? Do you tie it on around the hive with string?
@@gwenyngruffydd Sorry ! This one slipped by me. I actually wrap all my hives with wood. I prefer tongue and groove or shiplap spruce , pine , fir , or red cedar but often I end up using 3/8" (9.5 mm) plywood. I do have a couple of hives I have experimented with using 1/8" (3 mm) Eco-board which is an all natural Eucalyptus fiber board , for the outter skin. I painted one with a latex / linseed oil and the other I used plain rosewood oil. After 1 year they both seem to be holding up as well as the plywood but time will tell. No doubt there is more value in solid wood skin versus ply or eco-board but with the price of lumber this past year it was not possible to build with much of that. Cheers to you and yours !
Your right the price of timber over here is crazy high at the moment too!! Hope it comes back down once supply stabilises
Using wood so far, while appreciating the thermal benefits of poly, I haven’t honestly seen one yet that’s “pleasing to the eye”! What brand do you reckon are the least “Dalek lookin “ ?
Hi
Probably the SWIENTY hives. They are the same external dimension as timber hives
As for fixing those poly hives. I seen bee keepers using those rubber selant that plumbers used to seal leaks and at edge of basins to repair cracks and sticking pieces back. Not sure if that affects the quality of the honey thou. Recently I helped a retired friend repair some of his old hives and got interested in bee keeping.
It’s a great hobby!! You will really enjoy it 😊
put a poly slab on top as your crownboard...simple and compensates for the "insulation" issue. I do this with PIV (branded as Cellotex or Kingsfoil in the UK) as its a better insulator per area. But your other negatives still stand.
honest comparison! cheers
(one day I will try gluing poly slabs on the sides too. )
Thanks 😊 yes great advice as it happens I do that too! 1” cellotex above the crown board works a treat 👍🏻
Never tried it on the sides though....I’ve seen it done. No doubt works....but looks terrible! Lol
Im a newish bee keeper ... question ....is it a good idea to transfer frames to a poly hive for winter and then back again to wood for spring to autumn
seaveiw I would not waste your time doing that. That’s a lot of extra work without needing to do it. Timber or poly the bees will do well in them. In your timber hive you could add insulation above the crown board and that would help a lot.😊
seaveiw hope that helps 😊 happy to help out! 😊
hello, which size timber brood box would you say winters the colony the best,
The bigger the better technically speaking. I winter bees on a single national and commercial box. I find both works really well however if your dealing with big buckfast colonies you may need to brood and a half a single national box.
Mycelium hives are the best fire resistant light weight good isolation and no humidity problems hard as concrete and made from organic waste materials no painting and last forever , something to take a bigger serious look into this dough you need a big Turkey oven to bake them at 80 90 Celsius for a hour or two
I’ve never heard of those hives before. Who sells them?
@@gwenyngruffydd nobody yet, you have to make them, go for it it’s a great and fun diy project I’ve used the bee bunker moulds from South Africa and prayed the out side with a water base concrete sealer , btw soon polystyrene will be gone seeing the high pollution impacts.
I make my boxes out of linden wood. It has great insulating property and the bees really like it
Never heard of that wood. Where do you buy it?
@@gwenyngruffydd I cut it down my self.. I think you call it basswood in the US
I don’t think we have that wood in the U.K.
Now we have poly and wood hives i think the next step is to put poly insulation in side the wood hives something like thin poly square panels to slide in to the inner part of the wood hive walls, this would give you what you already have with a poly hive. poly hives down side is they dent so easy and i mean so easy have one barely a year old has dents in it like its been in the wars all my 8 poly hives are 6 frame commercial nucs made by Maisemore as i like that the feeder is not in the brood box but a feeder which pops on top i have 2 wooden 5 frame nucs but the poly are just easy in ever thing i call them jigsaw piece nucs as each part slots in to each other.
That would be a very interesting hive made from both material! Best of both!!
I use only wood hives. Just what I have leaned towards.
Castle Hives any interest in trying a poly?
better poly brood box with ceder supers
Can a poly styrene hive be coated on the inside with bees wax, or would the melted wax melt the styrene? It seems like the bees would accept the poly hive better if it were coated inside.
I just googled the melting points of both, Bees wax 145 to 149F - Poly Styrene 422F. Seems like coating the inside should work. Anyone done this? Any thought? TIA
It should work if you brush or roll it on. But to be honest with you there is no need. I’ve been keeping bees in poly hives for over a decade and they get on great in them as they are.
@@gwenyngruffydd Thanks
is it good to build hive from OSD or MDF? they are cheaper than wood
Hi,
I have seen hives made of marine ply but nothing else.
I think OSB or MDF would not be able to cope with being outside all year round. Would probably end up going soggy.
What part of the world are you from? If you don’t get a lot of rain they may be ok.
@@gwenyngruffydd hi. thank you for reply. im in north-east of Europe.
Probably to wet and cold for osb or mdf. I would go for cedar or larch
@@gwenyngruffydd thank you!
Ayy that poly hive on the thumbnail is the one I got
How do you find it? Happy with it?
@@gwenyngruffydd I found it on eBay. Turns out it’s a Langstroth
You ever tried the paradise honey poly's?
Not yet, I’ve tried maismore, Payne’s Abelo, Lyson and bs honey but not paradise.
I have heard a lot of good things about them though. Will need to get some for next season.
@@gwenyngruffydd aye they look the biz , I'm fancying a warre with some blacks for next year , you do packages of blacks ?
Poly: 1) Lighter 2) No rot 3) No warping 4) Better summer insulation 5) Better winter insulation 6) Readily assembled or easier to build 7) Greater honey production 8) More resistant to predation 9) Doesn't store humidity. 10) Timber NOT necessarily stronger...especially after rotting or aging. 11) White poly looks better than old nasty wood hives 12) Poly does not need painted if buy ones with color imbedded into the plastic. 12) Modern poly lasts far longer.
As for polysterene: nasty chemicals? Plastic nasty? Please...stop believing media lies. How many trees are destroyed using wood? Carbon footprint? What a joke. Its not carbon...its call CO2, but zealots like to use the term "carbon" because it sounds dirty...CO2 is NOT carbon, anymore than H2O is hydrogen. As soon as someone says "carbon" you know they have no education in science, but instead have a political axe to grind.
Some insects can eat or bore into poly hives. Wax moth larvae are able to digest poly and some other plastics like polythenes. A bad infestation of wax moth can lead to having to destroy the poly hive.
Very true!!! Great point! 👍🏻
Is there a promotion on poly hives. It seems that everybody is trying them out? Or maybe there is a lack of imagination to find content during the long winter brake!
suzanne guiho there is normally a promotion on all hive equipment over the winter. This topic has been going on for years poly v wood and can be a fiery topic with some people dug in deep on one side. The engagement from this video has been really good. True can’t work bees at the moment which makes it a fantastic time to talk and debate about Beekeeing equipment and topics 😊
You may want to add captions to make it easier for foreigners to understand your videos. Thanks
I think UA-cam has a subtitle option....but UA-cam struggles to understand me sometimes too!
Sorry I know my accent is really strong....English is my second language
I have a feeling this guy is good because he’s welsh 🏴 Cymru am beth
😁😁😁🏴
My Favourites bar has websites devoted to self reliance, permaculture and gardening. The first three are Huw Richards, Gwenyn Gruffydd and adamynyrardd, You've heard of The Three Tenors? I have The Three Taffys!, lol.
😂😂 love that!!
Can't agree with the carbon footprint element, when you consider that most cedar hives use wood shipped from Canada and that poly protected from uv has a lifespan of about 500years in air, not to mention is recyclable when it's no longer useful.
Stuart Mackenzie in the U.K. our largest manufacturer of hives uses U.K. cedar that’s fsc. Wich means it will be replanted. 500 years if painted and not exposed to wear and tare. Wear and tare will degrade a poly a lot. True you can recycle it. But this process would involve removing the paint before hand. Lots of energy needs to be used. As long as the tree is replanted wood will always be the most environmentally friendly way with less carbon footprint.
Not really, poly will outlast timber often 10 times. Recycling is very easy without removing the paint.
But there also is polyurethane hives, which outperform polystyrene, no painting and lasting even longer
Kai Stümer hi, my comments about lasting longer I said wood as it will withstand wear and tear a lot better. Some of my poly hives that are 8 years old are battered, scratched and dented and full of chips!
Agree plastic hives offer a bigger advantage again! Would love to try one out. As far as I’m aware nobody makes them in National or commercial size. Their all Langstroth.
Well i got a couple poly hives that are 40 years old by now, and I‘m sure will last 40 more years. The biggest problem with poly are pests like waxmoth or mice/rats
Kai Stümer very true!
Are you speaking Swedish? 😅
I’ve got a really strong Welsh accent 😅
Chickens need to be kept away from poly hives because they find the poly attractive and peck at it incessantly, badly damaging the hives.
Sentimental Bloke I have noticed small birds can damage them too. Great tip about the chickens😊 thanks 👍🏻
I've kept chickens andup to 50 turkeys around my poly hives for years. Never had any damage from them. They don't break up into bits like packing.polystyrene.
Stuart Mackenzie thanks for the comment. 😊
Wooden hives zero foot print plastic hive thousand year foot print! If not boycotting plastic please keep out them of the sun!