I actually LIKED the idea of coexistence between Humans and sentient anthropomorphic creatures. But then, Sonic Colors, Sonic Forces and the IDW comics makes it feel like they've been retconned aside from Professor Gerald and Maria along with ARK.
Sega’s mandates for the series extend into the comics as well, so it’s entirely possible that the reason those events aren’t acknowledged is because Sega won’t allow them to be
Yeah, kind of pisses me off to be honest. A core theme of Sonic 1-2 and CD was nature versus man made industrialization, a human versus an anthropomorphic hedgehog. The hedgehog who frees animals from machines and takes down Dr. Robotnik who's obsessed with them, all while traversing through both natural and polluted industrial environments. That shouldn't just be ignored.
If Marvel can have humans, inhumans, mutants, skrulls, vampires, androids, etc. living together on the same planet, I see no reason why Sonic can't have anthros and humans together.
@@likescatsiguess No, that's another example of Iizuka's "Two Seperate Planets" bullshit rule. And I'm not saying Humans in of itself is a bad thing, I'm saying Iizuka enforcing that excuse of a rule is a bad thing.
"There are two worlds. The human world and Sonic's world." "Then how why are the Mystic ruins only a train ride away from Station Squa-" "BECAUSE SHUT UP!!"
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 Well when did chaos control happen in the game universe then? Did the events of season 1 of Sonic X also happen in the game's world? No? Then that explanation does not apply to the games.
@@charactersin-depth3472 And given that it was set on Earth, it'd be maddening to try and cut them out, especially when this is an origin story with Sonic and Eggman.
@@eslm-studios2996 But humans are from a different world than sonic. The new continuity can work if they use the warp rings to travel between worlds like in the movie
@@danielscalera6057 There's an issue we have, there are different worlds with humans in the games. Like we've seen every continent in Sonic Unleashed but there's nobody from Sonic Adventure there such as G.U.N. and then the Sonic Riders series has a futuristic world with GUN in it but it's not explained why Megalo Station isn't important in Free Riders, Metal City is emphasized as the location they go to so it's pretty complicated.
Sonic Team in general has an issue with throwing away good ideas from poorly received games. Why was Unleashed's gameplay and world so different from '06? Because the team heard people trash the game for the ideas not being executed well, treated it like how Mermaid Man acts to the word "evil", and threw it all out because "nobody wants this stuff." Humans were doing great, and were fitting in even better with the redesigns in Unleashed! They complimented Sonic and friends, like bread with pasta;not necessary, but it doesn't feel complete without it. Next thing you know, the amusement park is empty in Colors, which is never explained and makes no sense, and Forces was Forces! Come on Iizuka, bring man back!
The fan base is so divided, how is sonic team going to please everyone where there will always be a part of the fan base that trashes the next sonic game that appeals to certain fans. The way I see it it’s not their fault as there is really nothing that made all the fans agree with each other except for maybe rise of lyric
Playing SA2 as a kid, it gave me a great sense of comfort seeing humanity coexisting with Sonic and all characters. Like myself, my family and everything I knew could be envisioned with it all. It gave me quite a boost in my childhood, made life seem more bright. I totally agree humans don't need to be involved with every arc of Sonic the Hedgehog, but just the thought of us existing alongside, it's made me want to become the best I can be. I know Sonic Team is really trying to satisfy everyone, experimenting with new concepts and whatnot, but in my support, everything this channel stands for for Sonic is the greatest path. Giving kids something relatable with fantasy aspects. (I hope I worded this right) Characters In-Depth, I truly thank you for making these videos. Truly. I hope they're viewed by a great number of people.
@@theminecraft2516 Probably SA2 had the best human characters (Gerald and Maria), but imo humans were portrayed better in unleashed. Making them seem more cartoonistic makes them fit more in the universe of sonic.
@@theminecraft2516 Yes, because it was a cartoon. And, I don't think the humans on unleashed are creepy. They have good designs and the idea of making them less realistic to fit the sonic world was perfect.
No Unleashed People are ugly & inconsistent with everything that came before! Adventure & 06 had the really good designs for humans in the Sonic Series if you ask me.
They were anime character cutouts at best, or distractingly realistic at worst. Unleashed’s aesthetic is the way to go as far as humans are concerned, as they fit Sonic’s cartoony design.
You have no idea how many people in the community defend this bullshit about Two Worlds its frustating Thank you for making this video, I missed people talking about humans
I bet izuka will say the way sonic goes to both worlds is the way he goes to different worlds in the movie. Seriously though the 2 worlds thing is so convoluted. For one how is angel island gonna show up on 2 planets.
people who make up these obscure theories just simp Sonic and are afraid to criticize anything Sonic. they enable Iizuka to just fuck around and then when asked about the canon and theories, he just says “haha yeah i meant to do that lol”
I always DID think there was never a “mobius”... I just like to think Sonic’s species came from the “Islands,” y’know, South Island, West Island, and even Angel Island. Maybe they were hidden by the Chaos Emeralds until Eggman showed up.
I’m perfectly okay with the whole two worlds thing. The thing hate about it is that it’s only been mentioned in an interview and not in the actually games.
@@charactersin-depth3472 Here's a hopeful thought, humans might have been omitted from Forces *purely because of the character creator.* As evidence, try to remember the rebel army from near the final battle.
It wouldn't be simple in a nutshell for sure the government would pass a bill that will discriminate mobians and non-mobians making harder for them to live peacefully.
Hmm, interesting idea. I could make a vid about how they shape the characters and world of Sonic. However, I'm working on a Metal Gear vid for now, but I'll keep the Emeralds in mind since it's a great idea, you're a natural.
Characters In-Depth can you make a video about how robotnick has become a joke how he lost his menacing edge that he had in the adventure games and maby a video about why orbot and cubot are the worst and should never be brought back
Right, I'mma defend the Commander: The Commander (I'll use his Archie name of Tower for sake of ease) was a child when he was on the ARK, his parents presumably researchers since they supposedly died on the ARK. He was one of the many civillians "saved by GUN" after "Gerald's experiment" killed the researchers and Maria, the latter he saw as like a big sister. To everyone else, this faceless, nameless "experiment" was to blame for the awful tragedy and GUN were the heroes that saved all they could. To Tower, he was the only one who actually saw this experiment, and later in life would learn that its name was Shadow. Tower has both a name and a face to put to the supposed murderer of everyone he ever loved. Keep in mind that Tower was just a child when all this went down - so when it all happened he cemented in his mind the fact that the black hedgehog he saw was a monster and that GUN were heroes of justice. That mindset stuck for his entire life because there was never anything to challenge that notion, nothing that he saw at least. So when Shadow saved the world, to him it was just an act, or perhaps Shadow only did it because he had his own plans. There was no way Shadow was a hero because, well, he's an evil monster that massacred everyone on the ARK. The ones who saved his life said so after all. It's only when Tower meets Shadow on the ARK that he sees reality doesn't meet expectation. Shadow isn't the merciless killer he's supposed to be. Shadow wasn't the heartless monster in Towers' mind. Shadow even said he would accept death if what Tower said was true. Suddenly, Towers has that reason to question what GUN had told him 50 years ago that he never had before. Ultimately, Towers is a parellel to Shadow in that game. Where Shadow is blinded by his desire to know his past and misses what's happening in the present, Towers is blinded by what he "knows" of the past, what he "knows" to be true, and that interrupts his ability to see what's happening in the present. And nobody else can sympathise with him because he's literally the only person on Earth who was both a survivour of the ARK incident AND who knows the identity of the supposed culprit behind it. By the end of the Last Story, both Shadow and Towers realise their mistakes and resolve to make amends, looking towards the future and working to protect the peace Gerald and Maria wanted. It's sad that the only closure we ever get between them is a single piece of dialogue in the Expert Mode where Towers apologies to Shadow and invites him to dinner (possibly serving Steamed Hams)
I mean, Shadow apparently accepts the apology since, starting with '06, he's an agent of GUN along with Rouge and Omega, which is an aspect about them that I really miss. Yeah, they still hang out with each other, but them being active in the military added that little bit more flavor to them and showed that something else in the world cared about what was going on instead of just Sonic and his friends.
@@LightEffexor actually, did anyone ever thought about this all in the way that, you know, G.U.N. is, like, an organization, with, like, staff, personnel, so, emmm, what about personnel changes and dismissals, eh? or such things are prohibited to exist in Sonic's world?
@@LightEffexor Basically, Shadow and co being GUN agents is a guarantee of their presence in every single games, normally. Because weird stuff cannot happen without GUN investigating on.
I agree with you that we can understand and sympathize with the commander. I especially appreciate the parallel you pointed out between Towers and Shadow. I hadn't thought of them as foils before, but they work that way really well. I grew a soft spot for him after reading a delightful fanfiction called "Insurrection" by Ardil the Traveller, which makes sense of the many path choices in "Shadow the Hedgehog" and fits the game into the wider world of Sonic installments a little more smoothly (I think the character interactions are pretty great in that re-telling).
If humans do come back into Sonic games, I would love a mix of the humans from Sonic adventure and Unleashed. And the violent temper isn't that bad, he believes Shadow was the reason Maria died. And I for one liked Unleashed.
THIS! THIS THIS THIS! Sonic's world isn't completely realistic, but it isn't SUPER fantastical either! The humans have heart and purpose!!!! One of my favorite examples is Sonic helping Helen the wheelchair girl from Sonic X #DON'T BE SPECIESIST AGAINST HUMANS! (Sonic X might've played into the whole two worlds thing. And people at least seem to like the idea of Eggette. And personally, I think an "animé Pixar" style like how Marza's Twitter draws Lah could work for humans if they ever get brought back.
@@charactersin-depth3472 Dude I love that episode so good Also in Adventure I'd check on that little girl waiting for her daddy at the Train Station and was happy when he got back
I remember seeing people saying that she should have been the audience surrogate, rather than Chris, and I agree. That would've been a fantastic contrast. And as I understand, it was the American branch of either Sega or Sonic Team who determined the whole "Two Worlds" thing, and put it into the manuals, while the Japanese side of things had it as one world. But Sonic X certainly popularized it (the Sonic movie perhaps even moreso) and connected the dots in how it all worked out. I liked that about it.
I'd feel better if videos like these, that communicate my opinions on the series, were the ones getting millions of views, instead of the ones that say that sonic stories shouldn't be serious and that colors is the best.
As a fan that has played a few different 3D Sonic titles, when it comes to light-hearted stories, Heroes is the best at conveying one and in terms of darker stories, I haven't played the Adventure games so IMO, Unleashed tells the best darker toned story, no game since Unleashed has even had a good story and the lack of one really only prevents them from being the best they can be
In Shadow The Hedgehog I feel like the GUN commander is supposed to represent Shadow and how far he’s come so Shadow can have that moment where he reflects and has the heart to heart with him. The GUN commander, just like Shadow was in SA2, was out for revenge, no matter the cost.
It annoys me when people say "It makes no sense to have Sonic and his friends being the only talking animals in a world of humans without some kind of explanation" because they themselves are totally ok with Eggman being the only human in a world of talking animals with no explanation! It's just a world where the two coexist! Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Iizuka has said wierd stuff about sonics lore b4, IE mighty, ray, fang, bean, and bark only exist in the classic universe when there is no such thing, did they all die b4 sa1 or something.
The Classic and Modern split universe if funny to me. They both have Genesis stages like Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Death Egg, etc.I'm guessing he'll change his mind next year.
Characters In-Depth Considering the successful reception of the movie which introduced a middle ground of having Sonic able to travel to different worlds with the Rings, I hope so.
Characters In-Depth The most popular fan theory that is accepted at fact is that Generations split the timeline where after the game, Classic Sonic goes on to Mania and not Sonic Adventure. Despite being dumb, it makes sense.
The weirdest stuff is the information that fans don't get formally told, like how Eggman and Tails are the only characters that are allowed to be inventors, or how no character is allowed to express extreme emotions like depression or grief, or how - in 3D games - only Sonic, Shadow and Silver are allowed to go super, but if the game is 2D then anyone can. There's so many stupid and contradictory rules and facts about Sonic's universe and games that the developers need to sit down and decide which games are canon and which are not, or come up with an official timeline that allows conflicting events to happen canonically. The situation at the moment is likeable to Nintendo trying to say that every Zelda game takes place in the same universe and that every Link is the same person. It's just too convoluted and messy to make full sense of by just stringing together comments from interviews. Ideally, the best thing to do would be to reboot the series, but history proves that both soft and hard reboots of the Sonic series are not good solutions.
I remember someone made a review of the Sonic movie and they said "I don't really like that Sonic met up with humans," and it was just stupid for me to comprehend since they've always had these human friends.
You’ve made some good points in this and brought some very clear reasons as to why there can’t be a “human world” and “anthro world”. I thought of the two biggest reasons so far is Shadow and Knuckles. Shadow’s whole existence wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for humans, yet he’s in the “anthro world” in Forces, and where is Angel Island? If its in one world and Knuckles hangs out in the other for a good amount of time then he’s being extra lazy with his job and conflicts the whole story and background established with that. I swear I never understood or felt what “retcons” were in story telling until now, even though I’ve seen and heard people bring it up countless times. The two worlds thing has to be the most retcon-iest retcon I’ve ever seen. No way.
I’ve gotta agree with you there. Cause first, Angel Island is meant to be in the human world but now suddenly it’s in Sonic’s world for the rest of the time. I’ll always prefer the mix of Mobians, Humans, famous landmarks and places from real life and Sonic games all in one world.
But how about this: The "anthros" actually evolved from the animals they where based on, that explains why there are normal animals alongside anthros. Oh yeah this means that there can't be any ape characters in Sonic because humans are the evolutions of apes.
Just because you can't see the humans in certain games, doesn't mean they don't exist. There's EVIDENCE IN THE CLASSIC GAMES they exist. Also look at Mega Man. I don't see very many humans. BUT THEY EXIST
@@RoyalKnightVIII That was never the case though. Japanese Classic Sonic appears in a lot of promo material with humans, and there's evidence of humans in the Classic games. Amy Rose lives in Central City, and Gerald Robotnik is closely tied to the Echidnas.
I gotta admit, I like the idea of Commander Abraham/ the gun commander’s character drive; being so driven into grief to the point of revenge no matter what onto a specified person. A great contrast to Shadow’s grief which turns to a generalise revenge in rage. Unfortunately I’m sorry if people did like the character, the execution of the character was horribly done.
I really think they should’ve just done what they did with the post-reboot Archie comics where the world is filled with both humans and animals living side by side
I'll actually accept human/anthro love interests so long as all the characters are equally goofy. The funny-looking humans of Unleashed could easily be seen being in love with the equally funny-looking anthropomorphic animals. The humans of '06 were just so bizarrely real that it's uncomfortable seeing a story like that play out. It's like seeing someone in love with a plush doll. Just creepy.
I'm more accepting of the two-worlds thing because Sonic X already did that before we had any serious drama with game continuity issues. That said, making it an excuse to leave the human world out entirely isn't gonna fly with me. In fact, I think a game where you end up having to jump between Earth, Mobius, and perhaps even the Sol Dminension would be a cool concept they haven't touched on yet for a game...
I wouldn't mind the two worlds thing in the games if they actually showed or explained the elements of it. It's essentially just hand waving the canon to lazily explain the lack of humans in the last decade
@@c4k377 Understandable, but also remember that Sonic Rush Adventure explains how Blaze's world is Connected to Sonic's world, and why she can show up on Sonic's world pretty freely for things like the Olympics and... showing up to be present... yay Colors DS and both Generations wasting everyone's potential. I know they didn't do this for Earth/Mobius in the games, but considering a number of things, including how Eggman is most probably from Earth in at least Sonic X and the Sonic movie, with Gerald Robotnick's involvement with GUN, and then how the ancient peoples of the Earth had shrines specifically for charging up the Chaos Emeralds on Earth in Unleashed suggests that what ever connects Earth and Mobius at least occurs with some frequency and has been happening quite a lot over the ages. They've left little hints at the connection in the games, they just haven't out right shown it in any major story elements.
@DarkSonic180 Going by Sonic X's 2 worlds, Mobius is Earth, but in a different reality. Anyhow, I'd thought everyone agreed that there are already a lot of contradictions in the "Sonic timeline" anyway.
@DarkSonic180 I didn't say it was like Earth, I said that it was Earth but in a different reality. A reality with wackier landscapes, and the main civilization consists of varying anthro-animals that have high-tech cities. It could also be assumed that the Sol Dimension is a third copy of Earth/Mobius.
lolsonic game journalists: "eww, what's a cartoon hedgehog doing with humans, running through cities, and having stories..?! i miss the genesis era" >eggman is a *fucking* human, sonic runs through cities every *other* day in every genesis title, and sonic 3 and knuckles had a form of narrative, that was a big appeal for combining both cartridges. the most hilarious thing about bashing the franchise ign style, is how contradictory and hypocritical it is, stemming from people who's only exposure to sonic was sonic 1 in passing, and like 3 twitter memes. humans belong in sonic games; that's how it should be.
I really do miss the *"Looney Tunes"* Vibe where all Humans and Anthros live together in 1 World in the Sonic Franchise, truly a real big Bummer that they have to go for a more *"Mickey Mouse"* Anthros only World after the Post "Sonic Unleashed" Era.
If they brought back humans in the Sonic universe, I imagine them having an anime style to them while Sonic and his friends will still have their cartoon style.
I almost shed a tear of happiness when you suggested every game in the last decade being removed from canon, I've been wanting this since... Well since Boom at the latest... Going back to the ONE WORLD canon and back to the meaningful storytelling of Adventure/Unleashed is all I ask of this franchise that just keeps on trying it's best to distance itself from those times...
6:05 Always had this thought myself, these past stories have ruined so much to the point that I can't and don't want to consider them canon, every last one of em, of anything, either remove em entirely or rewrite them. Another thing, one yhing that doesn't make sense at all is Eggman being the only human around now, it feels out of place in some ways I guess and doesn't feel right, although I guess it makes SOME sense yhat he'd want to take over a different world from his own, it'd be much easier than taking over a world that already has a government and all. Even then, humans need to come back.
This is how I feel about Sonic Boom's show. I hate that Eggman is the only human given his financial endeavors in that universe. Seems interacting with other humans would make sense or implying it. That aside, I do feel humans work in a Sonic medium because of the existence of Eggman.
I also think the fact that there were comparatively few antro animals in the older games made Sonic and his friends themselves seem a bit more special. Instead of wondering why some antros have cool gameplay powers and the others don't.
Agreed. Humans deserve to appear in more Sonic games. I'd love to see them in Sonic X style, but in 3D. Also, this franchise needs multiple species, such as Mobians, humans, humanoids, animals, androids, skrulls, vampires, sphinx, mermaids, centaurs, lamias, Wisps, Marmolins (as seen in Sonic X EP69), Seedrians, Chao, fairies (like in Shuffle), unicorns, dragons, animals (real life), demons, angels, monsters, etc.
I always thought humans belonged in Sonic especially since our main villain is a human lol. Sonic unleashed does the human characters the best in my opinion too because they’re nice and cartoony, like Sonic is supposed to be
I think the "two worlds" retcon is kinda dumb tbh, but also I would liek to see background characters that aren't *just* humans. Would be nice to have a mix of humans and anthro characters walking around. Most of the places we've seen in the games with humans are probably just mainly populated by humans because general preference of people. Maybe human people tend to go to bigger cities while animal people prefer smaller villages? Of course that doesn't stop places like Mazuri from existing where the population is humans with what I'm pretty sure is a tribe of natives. ...Been a while since I played Unleashed.
Ok that 2 worlda thing may actually be planed before they stoped including humans in the games,sonic x do that and theres also this thing that in sonic advrnture 1 é 2 only some of the major characters appear to be antrophomorphized (except for the knuckles tribe wich could be from another world)in most classic games whe see no sign of humans except for robotnik and the mystic ruins may be refered as mystic because of being from another world
Every time I hear someone say "humans don't belong in a Sonic game", I think to myself, "So then what's Dr. Eggman to you? A bonobo? Gorilla?" It's just so counter inductive when people think like that. But, you have to admit "Sonic Colors" and "Generations" are good games not for story, but because of the gameplay. So why remove them from the cannon?
If Dr. Eggman is an animal character, then he should be a walrus. (It is perfectly clear since Eggman was inspired by The Beatles song "I Am The Walrus").
colors is not good for its gameplay majority of the levels are worst designed compared to unleashed and boosting was made even worse there then in unleashed.
Welp it been confirmed both anthro and human live together in earth so that’s great news
4 роки тому+7
Possibly as a side effect of this Shadow was degraded from a proper anti-hero role to a malicious bully because no humans besides eggman means his entire backstory is gone and with it his character development.
This makes me really want to see a new Sonic series that incorporates humans into the narrative. Like, it could be kinda like April in TMNT where maybe Sonic and the others meet a human girl who’s a tech genius or something (like a rebooted version of Hope Kintobor from the Archie comics). While Sonic X definitely had its flaws (the 4Kids dub certainly didn’t help), I will say that I think it’s the 2nd best Sonic story to incorporate humans next to Unleashed. Yeah, Chris wasn’t a good character, but the stuff with Helen was amazing, Chuck was pretty fun and had good chemistry with Tails, and the humans had a freaking point within the show.
Honestly, I think that a big reason why we like the human-anthro dynamic is because it allows for us to relate to the world and stories more. Other than the fact that we are humans ourselves which allows for us to put ourselves in the place of people seen I games like sonic unleashed. The anthro designs in Sonic have one of the most generic foundation to them. How many characters have one big eye instead of two? How many have relatively spiky hair? How many of them share the same shape as sonic. Characters like Rouge, Blaze, Cream, and even Big the cat become memorable despite of them being a side characters. Because they stand out. A lot more than people like silver, or espio, or Jet. Characters like Tails, Amy, Shadow, and knuckles get a pass because they were the Original characters and among the first to incorporate the sonic style. Like compare designs from Zelda to designs from Sonic and they have a more distinct character designs. Characters like midna, Majora, Ganondorf, the 4 heroes from Botw, the many iterations of Link and Zelda, among other characters.
God, the human characters in Unleashed were amazing. I loved when you put the world together and you would see one person from a country visiting the other.
I honestly prefer if they balance the style between SA and Unleashed. It doesn't matter on the origin of the character's creation, what matters is that they should be consistent with the world around them. Take note that Sonic's design has some inspirational aspects from cartoon characters. From lanky legs to his one-eyed appearance, putting him beside characters, such as Elise or Pickles, will make him stand-out as if he doesn't belong there. "But dude, what about Kingdom Hearts, huh?" The main reason this works is that some of those human characters are intentionally not part of that world to begin with.
A redesign of Maria is this: sonic.fandom.com/f/p/3100000000000000798/r/3087807323247268373 It looks more close to Uekawa's artstyle, It fits more with Sonic Team/SEGA games style/Aesthetic. Having that Animesque look feels better too, It reminds me of early Designs of Humans in NIGHTS and more striking colors, evoking that that 90s aesthetic just overall more.
@@mistersureshot1749 Because it suits his own predilections. What answer are you expecting? Some philosophical or scientific reasoning with a mathematical methodology?
this explains why there hasn't been one epic sonic game finale after unleashed, everything feels so empty, specially colors and lost world, i miss how bad ass every final stage and boss was, even in 06, humans make us care about the story, and it made sonic and company feel like true heroes that saved millions of lives, they tried to populate the world with animals instead of humans in forces, but it didn't gave me the same feeling, they looked generic and lifeless and since we never interact with them in the game besides the avatar, it makes things worse.
The animals in Forces don't even have exprecions like in the final battle almost all of them just have an static smile even when a FREAKING SUN IS GONNA KILL THEM ALL!
This might be the most important Sonic-related video I've seen to date. I needs to be seen by more people. The constant splitting of Sonic's canon across separate worlds is just insulting to fans of the earlier games, and it needs to be retconned back.
You're bloody right it does! If anything the separate worlds thing should've stayed in Sonic X. Although it was fitting for the movie, but the games should be changed back to having Humans and Mobians(?) coexisting with each other! I mean look at the Archie comics, despite the fact that it failed and was filled with loads of contradictions it had an interesting concept with showing Humans.
The old sonic games were good because they had minimal backstory. It was just hedgehogs. The sonic adventure games were good because they did have a story. Both these games series are the backbone of sonic. The two worlds retcon essentially makes both those old sonic series no longer properly fit the canon: the classic games because wasn't Eggman a human, and the adventure series because it had classic sonic zones in the human world. I agree with this video. It was dumb. That said, I don't think sonic games and other media are fully adhering to the two worlds thing and that's probably understandable.
I wish SEGA would take their time to look at videos like yours to take some time to shape their sonic lure good! It seems like they only only respond to negative reactions. They heard how everybody hates Elise and Chris so BOOM humans are retconned. And when they do hear positive reactions, they shape it weird (like bringing classic sonic to forces cuz everybody loved his levels in generations). I feel like if you're trying to create your own story with your own world, then you should trust your vision. Not everybody will like it, but it doesn't matter! (Pun not intended). It's your story! See it through the end! Great vids dude!
Oh my god finally a Sonic fan that agrees other humans makes sense in Sonic games Dr Eggman having a grandfather and cousin and mother and father makes sense.
I'M ALL FOR WORLD BUILDING! WHERE DID IT ALL GO?!?!?! (For reals though...ever watch a scene from the O.G DragonBall where there are just Anthros and Humans Co-Existing and you were all like "This is pretty much Sonic's world!"?)
My headcanon is that the world is a gigantic version of earth that is cut in two halves: one filled with humans and other filled with Anthropomorphic animals.
Hmm That would support forces So like Unleashed was before they split it is my guess I support this But since eggman got the entire Earth would that mean only the anthro side would only be harmed?
i just want include this knowing the fact that Sonic's world Mobius is suppose to be a post apocalyptic Earth im guessing some random retarded Paradox caused something
Humans are to Sonic what actual uniquely-designed Toads are to Mario. Both added variety and personality to their respective worlds, and the fans want them back.
Saying that the humans live on an entirely different world than Sonic is the equivalent to if the people behind Origami King stated that the reason no original characters have been appearing is that they all live in the storybook world, and Mario likes to explore the papercraft world. It doesn't make any logical sense, has no in-game signs pointing to this, and is invalidated by the fact that Sticker Star took place in a storybook too.
I think the Sonic movie peeked into the two worlds bit, and it makes a lot more sense than just Anthros and Humans living together. It'd definitely fill in a lot of blanks to certain things. Not only that but my head canon is that certain beings are able to hop to different earth's, or in this case, from Mobius to Earth. There's a youtuber I recently watched that explains this better but I forgot their name. I think he does "What if" scenarios.
I agree with everything except for getting rid of all the games from the past decade. Rather I would have games like Colors be remade/retold with the Adventure/Unleashed aesthetic. I really loved the concept of Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park, and it would've been really fun to see an Unleashed style hub world in each of the 6 world's with interaction with with park attractions and people who either give you interesting tips or side missions or simply talk about how they feel in Eggman's park. Personally, I feel like Colors is the game I would salvage that would greatly benefit in being remade with a better narrative and have the human aspect added.
Humans are practically required to have some characters work, like shadow the hedgehog's backstory is based around him wanting revenge on humanity because his oldest freind died. If he wanted revenge on purely animal characters, he wouldn't really team up with rouge and other characters because he'd be wanting revenge on them.
I agree, I want humans back in Sonic games. In more recent ones we haven’t really seen them. In Sonic Forces it was just a bunch of animals and no humans, besides Eggman. All the animals looked very similar to another anyway. Eggman was taking over 99% of the world and yet there were no humans to witness it, just animals...
I didn't realize how weird it was for there not to be humans in Sonic's world, until that amusement park in Sonic Colors was completely empty! Especially in the cutscenes there's literally no one there! Eggman keeps talking on the radio as if there are actually people there, but there aren't any. Also the thought never occurred to me that G.U.N would totally do something about Eggman trying to take over in Sonic Forces.
The way I see it, there are pros and cons to both points, wether there are two worlds or one, from a story prospective and since the retcon, I don’t know if that’ll change any time soon, but there’s always fanfictions and head canons, like if I was to make Sonic story, I would have the two worlds thing be a thing in it until a cataclysmic event merges the two worlds into one
I still hope that, now that the previous writers have left the Sonic series, they will install Ian Flynn as the new writer for the main games. He also hates the two worlds thing, so he might be able to fix things if he was in a position like that. :'D
Late to the party, but the common , regular ass human beings make the world of Sonic feel more magical and whimsical, just Cartoon animal characters make it feel samey
It’s a good thing that “two worlds” thing was a translation error :) When translating with a proper understanding of Japanese, it’s much, much clearer that he meant there are different societies in Sonic’s world: societies of anthro characters, societies of humans.
It doesn't even have to humans, Just add more mobians in your games. I'm not talking about the mobians in forces, they felt hallow, they hardly said anything, and only appeared in, like, one scene in the entire game. They were just background characters Sega put in to try up the stakes, but failed at it. How are were supposed to care about characters, when sega only aknowledged them for a few minutes.
I used to think that the humans were the problem in Sonic 06. I was wrong. If they make the humans not so dead eyed, I'm all for it! Elise wasn't a bad character. She just looked so creepy!
If your going to add Human, have them fit in the Art style of the Sonic Universe in a Cartoon mix with Anime style Never go realistic Human in 06, they were boring
How about we make a combination of SA1 anime styled humans with the cartoonish style of Unleashed, it would fit a lot better in the games and it would compliment Eggman's design
I actually LIKED the idea of coexistence between Humans and sentient anthropomorphic creatures. But then, Sonic Colors, Sonic Forces and the IDW comics makes it feel like they've been retconned aside from Professor Gerald and Maria along with ARK.
Sega’s mandates for the series extend into the comics as well, so it’s entirely possible that the reason those events aren’t acknowledged is because Sega won’t allow them to be
Yeah, kind of pisses me off to be honest. A core theme of Sonic 1-2 and CD was nature versus man made industrialization, a human versus an anthropomorphic hedgehog. The hedgehog who frees animals from machines and takes down Dr. Robotnik who's obsessed with them, all while traversing through both natural and polluted industrial environments. That shouldn't just be ignored.
Well idw is supposed to be a sequel to forces
Exabooted yeah only the events between 2003 and 2010 didn’t happened
@@randyofficial3614 Just because it's a sequel to forces doesn't mean SA2 to didn't happen. That'd be weird.
I’m all for Sonic people and humans living together side by side.
Then watch the sonic movie
If Marvel can have humans, inhumans, mutants, skrulls, vampires, androids, etc. living together on the same planet, I see no reason why Sonic can't have anthros and humans together.
The two worlds "retcon" kind of also makes Mobius canon again, though.
@@likescatsiguess No, that's another example of Iizuka's "Two Seperate Planets" bullshit rule. And I'm not saying Humans in of itself is a bad thing, I'm saying Iizuka enforcing that excuse of a rule is a bad thing.
@@jedihunter176 Yeah, Mobius and Earth be the same planet again!
"There are two worlds. The human world and Sonic's world."
"Then how why are the Mystic ruins only a train ride away from Station Squa-"
"BECAUSE SHUT UP!!"
It’s actually implied that all of the Mystic Ruins adventure field is actually part of Angel Island.
It was explained in Sonic X
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 Well when did chaos control happen in the game universe then? Did the events of season 1 of Sonic X also happen in the game's world? No? Then that explanation does not apply to the games.
@@HonerableG Complete opposite. Angel Island broke off from where the Mystic Ruins are when it lifted into the sky.
@@genyakozlov1316 didn't chaos control happen in Sonid Adventure 2 ? 🙄🙄🙄
I mean no one questions the humans in Looney Tunes
One of the antagonists is one as well. Like Eggman.
C Two if you count Yosamitie Sam.
Cause its Looney Toons they had a crossover with Micheal Jordon (and predicted corona kinda)
That’s because people weren’t offended so easily back then
But Looney Tunes isn't meant to be taken seriously
I wonder if that's the reason why the Sonic Movie worked.
It'd feel empty without them.
@@charactersin-depth3472 And given that it was set on Earth, it'd be maddening to try and cut them out, especially when this is an origin story with Sonic and Eggman.
@@eslm-studios2996 But humans are from a different world than sonic. The new continuity can work if they use the warp rings to travel between worlds like in the movie
@@danielscalera6057 There's an issue we have, there are different worlds with humans in the games. Like we've seen every continent in Sonic Unleashed but there's nobody from Sonic Adventure there such as G.U.N. and then the Sonic Riders series has a futuristic world with GUN in it but it's not explained why Megalo Station isn't important in Free Riders, Metal City is emphasized as the location they go to so it's pretty complicated.
@@artistanthony1007 this can be chalked to sega not really caring about continuity.
Sonic Team in general has an issue with throwing away good ideas from poorly received games. Why was Unleashed's gameplay and world so different from '06? Because the team heard people trash the game for the ideas not being executed well, treated it like how Mermaid Man acts to the word "evil", and threw it all out because "nobody wants this stuff." Humans were doing great, and were fitting in even better with the redesigns in Unleashed! They complimented Sonic and friends, like bread with pasta;not necessary, but it doesn't feel complete without it. Next thing you know, the amusement park is empty in Colors, which is never explained and makes no sense, and Forces was Forces! Come on Iizuka, bring man back!
The fan base is so divided, how is sonic team going to please everyone where there will always be a part of the fan base that trashes the next sonic game that appeals to certain fans. The way I see it it’s not their fault as there is really nothing that made all the fans agree with each other except for maybe rise of lyric
@@impulse5674 Hey,I like Rise of Lyric.
Evil?! Evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvillllllllllllllll!
@@impulse5674 make multiple games for different fans....
with the humans in unleashed it just makes egg man fit in more because of his design
Playing SA2 as a kid, it gave me a great sense of comfort seeing humanity coexisting with Sonic and all characters. Like myself, my family and everything I knew could be envisioned with it all. It gave me quite a boost in my childhood, made life seem more bright.
I totally agree humans don't need to be involved with every arc of Sonic the Hedgehog, but just the thought of us existing alongside, it's made me want to become the best I can be.
I know Sonic Team is really trying to satisfy everyone, experimenting with new concepts and whatnot, but in my support, everything this channel stands for for Sonic is the greatest path. Giving kids something relatable with fantasy aspects. (I hope I worded this right)
Characters In-Depth, I truly thank you for making these videos. Truly. I hope they're viewed by a great number of people.
Thank you. That means a lot.
I agree!
I agree! Humans make it better, along with a proper hub world to explore
SB737 I think the Humans in SA2 were the best
@@theminecraft2516 Probably SA2 had the best human characters (Gerald and Maria), but imo humans were portrayed better in unleashed. Making them seem more cartoonistic makes them fit more in the universe of sonic.
@@santihjusto Ummm... The Sonic X humans fitted better, the Unleashed humans look creepy
Just go to Apatos and look at the creepy people
@@theminecraft2516 Yes, because it was a cartoon. And, I don't think the humans on unleashed are creepy. They have good designs and the idea of making them less realistic to fit the sonic world was perfect.
The Unleash humans have really good designs
No Unleashed People are ugly & inconsistent with everything that came before! Adventure & 06 had the really good designs for humans in the Sonic Series if you ask me.
They were anime character cutouts at best, or distractingly realistic at worst. Unleashed’s aesthetic is the way to go as far as humans are concerned, as they fit Sonic’s cartoony design.
maltese 84 sort of, more like Unleashed or Dreamworks Madagascar humans...
@@anarchimation1448 Plus it makes Eggman's cartoony design fit the world all the better.
Trokon Hufnagel it’s a Japanese game. Idk if the humans look anime
You have no idea how many people in the community defend this bullshit about Two Worlds its frustating
Thank you for making this video, I missed people talking about humans
Wait, there are people that lack the nessacary brain cells to see that the 2 worlds thing is complete bullshit
I bet izuka will say the way sonic goes to both worlds is the way he goes to different worlds in the movie. Seriously though the 2 worlds thing is so convoluted. For one how is angel island gonna show up on 2 planets.
people who make up these obscure theories just simp Sonic and are afraid to criticize anything Sonic. they enable Iizuka to just fuck around and then when asked about the canon and theories, he just says “haha yeah i meant to do that lol”
I always DID think there was never a “mobius”...
I just like to think Sonic’s species came from the “Islands,” y’know, South Island, West Island, and even Angel Island. Maybe they were hidden by the Chaos Emeralds until Eggman showed up.
I’m perfectly okay with the whole two worlds thing. The thing hate about it is that it’s only been mentioned in an interview and not in the actually games.
The need to bring them back. I liked the concept of Humans and Anthros living together.
Sonic was doing that so well.
@@charactersin-depth3472 Ikr
@@charactersin-depth3472
Here's a hopeful thought, humans might have been omitted from Forces *purely because of the character creator.* As evidence, try to remember the rebel army from near the final battle.
It wouldn't be simple in a nutshell for sure the government would pass a bill that will discriminate mobians and non-mobians making harder for them to live peacefully.
If I ever make my own sonic game, I would 100% bring them back
Can you talk about the Chaos Emeralds next? Because they haven’t been relevant since Sonic Generations Story-wise.
Hmm, interesting idea. I could make a vid about how they shape the characters and world of Sonic. However, I'm working on a Metal Gear vid for now, but I'll keep the Emeralds in mind since it's a great idea, you're a natural.
Don’t forget LEGO Sonic. That was the actual last time they were relevant.
@@SuperSonicWarrior93 The lego game was a hodge-podge of references and meta jokes.
Characters In-Depth I’m fine with references, but the meta jokes need to stop. It wasn’t funny then, and it sure as hell ain’t funny now.
Characters In-Depth can you make a video about how robotnick has become a joke how he lost his menacing edge that he had in the adventure games and maby a video about why orbot and cubot are the worst and should never be brought back
Right, I'mma defend the Commander:
The Commander (I'll use his Archie name of Tower for sake of ease) was a child when he was on the ARK, his parents presumably researchers since they supposedly died on the ARK. He was one of the many civillians "saved by GUN" after "Gerald's experiment" killed the researchers and Maria, the latter he saw as like a big sister. To everyone else, this faceless, nameless "experiment" was to blame for the awful tragedy and GUN were the heroes that saved all they could. To Tower, he was the only one who actually saw this experiment, and later in life would learn that its name was Shadow. Tower has both a name and a face to put to the supposed murderer of everyone he ever loved.
Keep in mind that Tower was just a child when all this went down - so when it all happened he cemented in his mind the fact that the black hedgehog he saw was a monster and that GUN were heroes of justice. That mindset stuck for his entire life because there was never anything to challenge that notion, nothing that he saw at least. So when Shadow saved the world, to him it was just an act, or perhaps Shadow only did it because he had his own plans. There was no way Shadow was a hero because, well, he's an evil monster that massacred everyone on the ARK. The ones who saved his life said so after all. It's only when Tower meets Shadow on the ARK that he sees reality doesn't meet expectation. Shadow isn't the merciless killer he's supposed to be. Shadow wasn't the heartless monster in Towers' mind. Shadow even said he would accept death if what Tower said was true. Suddenly, Towers has that reason to question what GUN had told him 50 years ago that he never had before.
Ultimately, Towers is a parellel to Shadow in that game. Where Shadow is blinded by his desire to know his past and misses what's happening in the present, Towers is blinded by what he "knows" of the past, what he "knows" to be true, and that interrupts his ability to see what's happening in the present. And nobody else can sympathise with him because he's literally the only person on Earth who was both a survivour of the ARK incident AND who knows the identity of the supposed culprit behind it.
By the end of the Last Story, both Shadow and Towers realise their mistakes and resolve to make amends, looking towards the future and working to protect the peace Gerald and Maria wanted. It's sad that the only closure we ever get between them is a single piece of dialogue in the Expert Mode where Towers apologies to Shadow and invites him to dinner (possibly serving Steamed Hams)
100% agreed
I mean, Shadow apparently accepts the apology since, starting with '06, he's an agent of GUN along with Rouge and Omega, which is an aspect about them that I really miss. Yeah, they still hang out with each other, but them being active in the military added that little bit more flavor to them and showed that something else in the world cared about what was going on instead of just Sonic and his friends.
@@LightEffexor actually, did anyone ever thought about this all in the way that, you know, G.U.N. is, like, an organization, with, like, staff, personnel, so, emmm, what about personnel changes and dismissals, eh? or such things are prohibited to exist in Sonic's world?
@@LightEffexor Basically, Shadow and co being GUN agents is a guarantee of their presence in every single games, normally. Because weird stuff cannot happen without GUN investigating on.
I agree with you that we can understand and sympathize with the commander. I especially appreciate the parallel you pointed out between Towers and Shadow. I hadn't thought of them as foils before, but they work that way really well.
I grew a soft spot for him after reading a delightful fanfiction called "Insurrection" by Ardil the Traveller, which makes sense of the many path choices in "Shadow the Hedgehog" and fits the game into the wider world of Sonic installments a little more smoothly (I think the character interactions are pretty great in that re-telling).
If humans do come back into Sonic games, I would love a mix of the humans from Sonic adventure and Unleashed. And the violent temper isn't that bad, he believes Shadow was the reason Maria died. And I for one liked Unleashed.
I missed that idea of humans and animals being together in peace. It just feels wholesome.
They do, watch tails tube 1
THIS! THIS THIS THIS! Sonic's world isn't completely realistic, but it isn't SUPER fantastical either! The humans have heart and purpose!!!! One of my favorite examples is Sonic helping Helen the wheelchair girl from Sonic X #DON'T BE SPECIESIST AGAINST HUMANS!
(Sonic X might've played into the whole two worlds thing. And people at least seem to like the idea of Eggette.
And personally, I think an "animé Pixar" style like how Marza's Twitter draws Lah could work for humans if they ever get brought back.
I will forever respect Sonic X for having an episode of Sonic raising the spirits of a little girl in a wheelchair.
@@charactersin-depth3472 Dude I love that episode so good
Also in Adventure I'd check on that little girl waiting for her daddy at the Train Station and was happy when he got back
@@devanarcher7054 I love that attention to detail with the train clerk reuniting with his daughter.
@@charactersin-depth3472 it's so sweet, I actually want to draw such an obscute character
I remember seeing people saying that she should have been the audience surrogate, rather than Chris, and I agree. That would've been a fantastic contrast.
And as I understand, it was the American branch of either Sega or Sonic Team who determined the whole "Two Worlds" thing, and put it into the manuals, while the Japanese side of things had it as one world. But Sonic X certainly popularized it (the Sonic movie perhaps even moreso) and connected the dots in how it all worked out. I liked that about it.
"Humans belong in Sonic games"
Dr Eggman: Am I a joke to you?
Some Loser Why yes. Yes you are.
I'd feel better if videos like these, that communicate my opinions on the series, were the ones getting millions of views, instead of the ones that say that sonic stories shouldn't be serious and that colors is the best.
Natalia, you're sweet.
As a fan that has played a few different 3D Sonic titles, when it comes to light-hearted stories, Heroes is the best at conveying one and in terms of darker stories, I haven't played the Adventure games so IMO, Unleashed tells the best darker toned story, no game since Unleashed has even had a good story and the lack of one really only prevents them from being the best they can be
In Shadow The Hedgehog I feel like the GUN commander is supposed to represent Shadow and how far he’s come so Shadow can have that moment where he reflects and has the heart to heart with him. The GUN commander, just like Shadow was in SA2, was out for revenge, no matter the cost.
It annoys me when people say "It makes no sense to have Sonic and his friends being the only talking animals in a world of humans without some kind of explanation" because they themselves are totally ok with Eggman being the only human in a world of talking animals with no explanation!
It's just a world where the two coexist! Why is that so hard to comprehend?
If they do bring back humans, I want them to be anime styled like in SA1.
You and me both, dude.
Nope, unleashed style. At least they fit in with the cartoonist style of Sonic.
@@SteveCrafts2k Sonic is a Japanese series so I want the anime-like designs.
@@megapokesonicx maybe for the Japanese titles, but for the English titles, they GOT to be unleashed styled.
SteveCrafts2k but there are no real differences between the English and Japanese titles and I just prefer the anime-styled designs for the humans.
Not gonna lie, living side-by-side with anthropomorphic animals would be awesome.
Why you do this, Sega??
I would love living in a world like that.
Same I would be a flying dog
Sega is scared to put humans in the games because the backlash o6 and unleashed got
Without humans NO SHADOW. End of story.
Professor Pickle was so funny and entertaining in Unleashed. I want him back.
Iizuka has said wierd stuff about sonics lore b4, IE mighty, ray, fang, bean, and bark only exist in the classic universe when there is no such thing, did they all die b4 sa1 or something.
The Classic and Modern split universe if funny to me. They both have Genesis stages like Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Death Egg, etc.I'm guessing he'll change his mind next year.
Characters In-Depth Considering the successful reception of the movie which introduced a middle ground of having Sonic able to travel to different worlds with the Rings, I hope so.
Characters In-Depth The most popular fan theory that is accepted at fact is that Generations split the timeline where after the game, Classic Sonic goes on to Mania and not Sonic Adventure. Despite being dumb, it makes sense.
simtek34 “Despite making no sense, it makes sense.”
?????
The weirdest stuff is the information that fans don't get formally told, like how Eggman and Tails are the only characters that are allowed to be inventors, or how no character is allowed to express extreme emotions like depression or grief, or how - in 3D games - only Sonic, Shadow and Silver are allowed to go super, but if the game is 2D then anyone can.
There's so many stupid and contradictory rules and facts about Sonic's universe and games that the developers need to sit down and decide which games are canon and which are not, or come up with an official timeline that allows conflicting events to happen canonically.
The situation at the moment is likeable to Nintendo trying to say that every Zelda game takes place in the same universe and that every Link is the same person. It's just too convoluted and messy to make full sense of by just stringing together comments from interviews.
Ideally, the best thing to do would be to reboot the series, but history proves that both soft and hard reboots of the Sonic series are not good solutions.
I remember someone made a review of the Sonic movie and they said "I don't really like that Sonic met up with humans," and it was just stupid for me to comprehend since they've always had these human friends.
@? Two words: Princess Elise.
You’ve made some good points in this and brought some very clear reasons as to why there can’t be a “human world” and “anthro world”. I thought of the two biggest reasons so far is Shadow and Knuckles. Shadow’s whole existence wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for humans, yet he’s in the “anthro world” in Forces, and where is Angel Island? If its in one world and Knuckles hangs out in the other for a good amount of time then he’s being extra lazy with his job and conflicts the whole story and background established with that.
I swear I never understood or felt what “retcons” were in story telling until now, even though I’ve seen and heard people bring it up countless times. The two worlds thing has to be the most retcon-iest retcon I’ve ever seen. No way.
I’ve gotta agree with you there. Cause first, Angel Island is meant to be in the human world but now suddenly it’s in Sonic’s world for the rest of the time. I’ll always prefer the mix of Mobians, Humans, famous landmarks and places from real life and Sonic games all in one world.
My idea : animals coexisting with humans since the creation of earth
Simple and effective.
Agreed!
But how about this: The "anthros" actually evolved from the animals they where based on, that explains why there are normal animals alongside anthros. Oh yeah this means that there can't be any ape characters in Sonic because humans are the evolutions of apes.
Just because you can't see the humans in certain games, doesn't mean they don't exist. There's EVIDENCE IN THE CLASSIC GAMES they exist. Also look at Mega Man. I don't see very many humans. BUT THEY EXIST
Ah but Sega says there have ALWAYS been two worlds :/
@@RoyalKnightVIII That was never the case though. Japanese Classic Sonic appears in a lot of promo material with humans, and there's evidence of humans in the Classic games. Amy Rose lives in Central City, and Gerald Robotnik is closely tied to the Echidnas.
@@devanarcher7054 don't use logic and facts here! That's not allowed!
@@RoyalKnightVIII lol, what fun is there in making sense anyway
Wow, that's almost saying there were other Mobians(?) besides the main characters in the games living amongst the Humans, only we just never saw them.
I gotta admit, I like the idea of Commander Abraham/ the gun commander’s character drive; being so driven into grief to the point of revenge no matter what onto a specified person. A great contrast to Shadow’s grief which turns to a generalise revenge in rage. Unfortunately I’m sorry if people did like the character, the execution of the character was horribly done.
I really think they should’ve just done what they did with the post-reboot Archie comics where the world is filled with both humans and animals living side by side
That would require a thing known as "thinking"
There's only one place humans don't belong in Sonic. As a love interest.
I'll actually accept human/anthro love interests so long as all the characters are equally goofy. The funny-looking humans of Unleashed could easily be seen being in love with the equally funny-looking anthropomorphic animals. The humans of '06 were just so bizarrely real that it's uncomfortable seeing a story like that play out. It's like seeing someone in love with a plush doll. Just creepy.
That girl from 06 was way out of Sonic’s league.
True
I agree.
Mr. X I see it as the other way around.
I think in future games instead of having NPCs be just animals or just humans, it should be a mix of both.
Shadow doesn't make sense to exist in the cannon without humans
Agreed.
I'm more accepting of the two-worlds thing because Sonic X already did that before we had any serious drama with game continuity issues.
That said, making it an excuse to leave the human world out entirely isn't gonna fly with me.
In fact, I think a game where you end up having to jump between Earth, Mobius, and perhaps even the Sol Dminension would be a cool concept they haven't touched on yet for a game...
I had the a similar idea for a game.
I wouldn't mind the two worlds thing in the games if they actually showed or explained the elements of it. It's essentially just hand waving the canon to lazily explain the lack of humans in the last decade
@@c4k377 Understandable, but also remember that Sonic Rush Adventure explains how Blaze's world is Connected to Sonic's world, and why she can show up on Sonic's world pretty freely for things like the Olympics and... showing up to be present... yay Colors DS and both Generations wasting everyone's potential.
I know they didn't do this for Earth/Mobius in the games, but considering a number of things, including how Eggman is most probably from Earth in at least Sonic X and the Sonic movie, with Gerald Robotnick's involvement with GUN, and then how the ancient peoples of the Earth had shrines specifically for charging up the Chaos Emeralds on Earth in Unleashed suggests that what ever connects Earth and Mobius at least occurs with some frequency and has been happening quite a lot over the ages.
They've left little hints at the connection in the games, they just haven't out right shown it in any major story elements.
@DarkSonic180 Going by Sonic X's 2 worlds, Mobius is Earth, but in a different reality. Anyhow, I'd thought everyone agreed that there are already a lot of contradictions in the "Sonic timeline" anyway.
@DarkSonic180 I didn't say it was like Earth, I said that it was Earth but in a different reality.
A reality with wackier landscapes, and the main civilization consists of varying anthro-animals that have high-tech cities.
It could also be assumed that the Sol Dimension is a third copy of Earth/Mobius.
lolsonic game journalists: "eww, what's a cartoon hedgehog doing with humans, running through cities, and having stories..?! i miss the genesis era"
>eggman is a *fucking* human, sonic runs through cities every *other* day in every genesis title, and sonic 3 and knuckles had a form of narrative, that was a big appeal for combining both cartridges.
the most hilarious thing about bashing the franchise ign style, is how contradictory and hypocritical it is, stemming from people who's only exposure to sonic was sonic 1 in passing, and like 3 twitter memes.
humans belong in sonic games; that's how it should be.
I really do miss the *"Looney Tunes"* Vibe where all Humans and Anthros live together in 1 World in the Sonic Franchise, truly a real big Bummer that they have to go for a more *"Mickey Mouse"* Anthros only World after the Post "Sonic Unleashed" Era.
If they brought back humans in the Sonic universe, I imagine them having an anime style to them while Sonic and his friends will still have their cartoon style.
I almost shed a tear of happiness when you suggested every game in the last decade being removed from canon, I've been wanting this since... Well since Boom at the latest... Going back to the ONE WORLD canon and back to the meaningful storytelling of Adventure/Unleashed is all I ask of this franchise that just keeps on trying it's best to distance itself from those times...
6:05 Always had this thought myself, these past stories have ruined so much to the point that I can't and don't want to consider them canon, every last one of em, of anything, either remove em entirely or rewrite them.
Another thing, one yhing that doesn't make sense at all is Eggman being the only human around now, it feels out of place in some ways I guess and doesn't feel right, although I guess it makes SOME sense yhat he'd want to take over a different world from his own, it'd be much easier than taking over a world that already has a government and all. Even then, humans need to come back.
Eggman was visually present in the Classics, so he's secure. Sometimes I think if the GUN Commander was in Sonic 2, he'd stay as well lol
Like what go all the way to the end of sa2?
This is how I feel about Sonic Boom's show. I hate that Eggman is the only human given his financial endeavors in that universe. Seems interacting with other humans would make sense or implying it.
That aside, I do feel humans work in a Sonic medium because of the existence of Eggman.
I’m on the “humans and anthropomorphic species exist in the same Earth” train. It’s just weird to think that Eggman is the only human idea.
And that is why i am planning to make Eggman Mobian to make the two worlds thing work.
I also think the fact that there were comparatively few antro animals in the older games made Sonic and his friends themselves seem a bit more special. Instead of wondering why some antros have cool gameplay powers and the others don't.
Agreed. Humans deserve to appear in more Sonic games. I'd love to see them in Sonic X style, but in 3D.
Also, this franchise needs multiple species, such as Mobians, humans, humanoids, animals, androids, skrulls, vampires, sphinx, mermaids, centaurs, lamias, Wisps, Marmolins (as seen in Sonic X EP69), Seedrians, Chao, fairies (like in Shuffle), unicorns, dragons, animals (real life), demons, angels, monsters, etc.
I always thought humans belonged in Sonic especially since our main villain is a human lol. Sonic unleashed does the human characters the best in my opinion too because they’re nice and cartoony, like Sonic is supposed to be
I think the "two worlds" retcon is kinda dumb tbh, but also I would liek to see background characters that aren't *just* humans. Would be nice to have a mix of humans and anthro characters walking around. Most of the places we've seen in the games with humans are probably just mainly populated by humans because general preference of people. Maybe human people tend to go to bigger cities while animal people prefer smaller villages? Of course that doesn't stop places like Mazuri from existing where the population is humans with what I'm pretty sure is a tribe of natives.
...Been a while since I played Unleashed.
Ok that 2 worlda thing may actually be planed before they stoped including humans in the games,sonic x do that and theres also this thing that in sonic advrnture 1 é 2 only some of the major characters appear to be antrophomorphized (except for the knuckles tribe wich could be from another world)in most classic games whe see no sign of humans except for robotnik and the mystic ruins may be refered as mystic because of being from another world
6:30 "if we have nothing to fight for, then why should we care?"
WELL, SEGA!? YOUR MOVE!
Every time I hear someone say "humans don't belong in a Sonic game", I think to myself,
"So then what's Dr. Eggman to you? A bonobo? Gorilla?"
It's just so counter inductive when people think like that.
But, you have to admit "Sonic Colors" and "Generations" are good games not for story, but because of the gameplay. So why remove them from the cannon?
I really want to think of Eggman as a shaved gorilla now. XD
If Dr. Eggman is an animal character, then he should be a walrus. (It is perfectly clear since Eggman was inspired by The Beatles song "I Am The Walrus").
@@poweroffriendship2.0 Really? XD That's funny.
colors is not good for its gameplay majority of the levels are worst designed compared to unleashed and boosting was made even worse there then in unleashed.
Welp it been confirmed both anthro and human live together in earth so that’s great news
Possibly as a side effect of this Shadow was degraded from a proper anti-hero role to a malicious bully because no humans besides eggman means his entire backstory is gone and with it his character development.
This makes me really want to see a new Sonic series that incorporates humans into the narrative. Like, it could be kinda like April in TMNT where maybe Sonic and the others meet a human girl who’s a tech genius or something (like a rebooted version of Hope Kintobor from the Archie comics).
While Sonic X definitely had its flaws (the 4Kids dub certainly didn’t help), I will say that I think it’s the 2nd best Sonic story to incorporate humans next to Unleashed. Yeah, Chris wasn’t a good character, but the stuff with Helen was amazing, Chuck was pretty fun and had good chemistry with Tails, and the humans had a freaking point within the show.
Don’t forget Ella and Mr Tanaka. Loved them too when watching the show as a kid 😂
I'm pretty sure Sonic X is the primary reason people don't want humans in Sonic games
Felix Morrissey could be, but I’m saying it could still work if done well
Personally, I don't think Chris was that bad, but he definitely could have been better.
@@FuryanJedi13 Agreed. Although I actually think Chris was way better in Season 3.
Honestly, I think that a big reason why we like the human-anthro dynamic is because it allows for us to relate to the world and stories more. Other than the fact that we are humans ourselves which allows for us to put ourselves in the place of people seen I games like sonic unleashed.
The anthro designs in Sonic have one of the most generic foundation to them. How many characters have one big eye instead of two? How many have relatively spiky hair? How many of them share the same shape as sonic. Characters like Rouge, Blaze, Cream, and even Big the cat become memorable despite of them being a side characters. Because they stand out. A lot more than people like silver, or espio, or Jet.
Characters like Tails, Amy, Shadow, and knuckles get a pass because they were the Original characters and among the first to incorporate the sonic style.
Like compare designs from Zelda to designs from Sonic and they have a more distinct character designs.
Characters like midna, Majora, Ganondorf, the 4 heroes from Botw, the many iterations of Link and Zelda, among other characters.
as a sonic fan i fucking hate how Sega got rid of the human in the series i miss i wish i can controll sega and make human in sonic world again
Sonic forces was the perfect time to bring back Humans. G.U.N could send solders to fight the illocutions
God, the human characters in Unleashed were amazing. I loved when you put the world together and you would see one person from a country visiting the other.
I honestly prefer if they balance the style between SA and Unleashed. It doesn't matter on the origin of the character's creation, what matters is that they should be consistent with the world around them.
Take note that Sonic's design has some inspirational aspects from cartoon characters. From lanky legs to his one-eyed appearance, putting him beside characters, such as Elise or Pickles, will make him stand-out as if he doesn't belong there.
"But dude, what about Kingdom Hearts, huh?" The main reason this works is that some of those human characters are intentionally not part of that world to begin with.
A redesign of Maria is this: sonic.fandom.com/f/p/3100000000000000798/r/3087807323247268373
It looks more close to Uekawa's artstyle, It fits more with Sonic Team/SEGA games style/Aesthetic. Having that Animesque look feels better too, It reminds me of early Designs of Humans in NIGHTS and more striking colors, evoking that that 90s aesthetic just overall more.
Eggman is a human and people forget that sometimes.
Thanks goodness for tails tubes for clarifying that human live in continents while mobians (anthropomorphic animals) lives exclusively in islands
I personally like the humans designed from Unleashed
Me too
Why?
@@mistersureshot1749 Because it suits his own predilections.
What answer are you expecting? Some philosophical or scientific reasoning with a mathematical methodology?
@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 More like Why do you like characters who look Blue Sky Studio rejects.
yeah, their cartoony design fits well, unlike the humans on Sonic 06
this explains why there hasn't been one epic sonic game finale after unleashed, everything feels so empty, specially colors and lost world, i miss how bad ass every final stage and boss was, even in 06, humans make us care about the story, and it made sonic and company feel like true heroes that saved millions of lives, they tried to populate the world with animals instead of humans in forces, but it didn't gave me the same feeling, they looked generic and lifeless and since we never interact with them in the game besides the avatar, it makes things worse.
The animals in Forces don't even have exprecions like in the final battle almost all of them just have an static smile even when a FREAKING SUN IS GONNA KILL THEM ALL!
Sonic without humans is like Mario without Mushrooms or Link without a Sword
Michael McFly ...there are no mushrooms in Super Mario Odyssey
@@jaybee27D ..Toad?
The classics didn't have humans so what's your point
That makes no sense. classics, advance, rush, riders and rivals series didn’t have them
StarryNights riders had them
This might be the most important Sonic-related video I've seen to date. I needs to be seen by more people. The constant splitting of Sonic's canon across separate worlds is just insulting to fans of the earlier games, and it needs to be retconned back.
You're bloody right it does! If anything the separate worlds thing should've stayed in Sonic X. Although it was fitting for the movie, but the games should be changed back to having Humans and Mobians(?) coexisting with each other! I mean look at the Archie comics, despite the fact that it failed and was filled with loads of contradictions it had an interesting concept with showing Humans.
This is just "Bring back the Sonic dark age".
@@bumblebee2511 the state Sonic's been in for the past decade is the REAL dark age.
“The Dark Age” > Whatever we got now this past decade
The old sonic games were good because they had minimal backstory. It was just hedgehogs. The sonic adventure games were good because they did have a story. Both these games series are the backbone of sonic. The two worlds retcon essentially makes both those old sonic series no longer properly fit the canon: the classic games because wasn't Eggman a human, and the adventure series because it had classic sonic zones in the human world. I agree with this video. It was dumb. That said, I don't think sonic games and other media are fully adhering to the two worlds thing and that's probably understandable.
I think both anthros and humans as citizens work well, just humans can work as well since it helps the main characters stand out
i'm glad they brought back humans in the movie maybe that might encourage sonic team to bring them back into the games
I wish SEGA would take their time to look at videos like yours to take some time to shape their sonic lure good! It seems like they only only respond to negative reactions. They heard how everybody hates Elise and Chris so BOOM humans are retconned. And when they do hear positive reactions, they shape it weird (like bringing classic sonic to forces cuz everybody loved his levels in generations). I feel like if you're trying to create your own story with your own world, then you should trust your vision. Not everybody will like it, but it doesn't matter! (Pun not intended). It's your story! See it through the end! Great vids dude!
Oh my god finally a Sonic fan that agrees other humans makes sense in Sonic games Dr Eggman having a grandfather and cousin and mother and father makes sense.
I'M ALL FOR WORLD BUILDING! WHERE DID IT ALL GO?!?!?!
(For reals though...ever watch a scene from the O.G DragonBall where there are just Anthros and Humans Co-Existing and you were all like "This is pretty much Sonic's world!"?)
Yeah, where are all the anthro bears in Dragon Ball now?
@@charactersin-depth3472 I dunno man!
My headcanon is that the world is a gigantic version of earth that is cut in two halves: one filled with humans and other filled with Anthropomorphic animals.
Hmm
That would support forces
So like
Unleashed was before they split it is my guess
I support this
But since eggman got the entire Earth would that mean only the anthro side would only be harmed?
i just want include this knowing the fact that Sonic's world Mobius is suppose to be a post apocalyptic Earth
im guessing some random retarded Paradox caused something
@@hevendor958 Wasnt that an Archie Comic thing?
Humans are to Sonic what actual uniquely-designed Toads are to Mario.
Both added variety and personality to their respective worlds, and the fans want them back.
i wish but sonicteam never listens to their fans only idiotic critics and non sonic fans who don't know a thing about the series
@@jdawson7877 SEGA and Sonic Team only care about short-term profit and meaningless praise instead of consistency.
If sega doesn't includes humans, the least they could do is only include Eggman's family Maria, Gerald, and hell even others.
Saying that the humans live on an entirely different world than Sonic is the equivalent to if the people behind Origami King stated that the reason no original characters have been appearing is that they all live in the storybook world, and Mario likes to explore the papercraft world. It doesn't make any logical sense, has no in-game signs pointing to this, and is invalidated by the fact that Sticker Star took place in a storybook too.
This is why I hate the "classic" feel being forced into the modern games. Like Sonic 06 wasn't bad because of the humans.
There's nothing wrong with Sonic living with humans! That does not bother me at all!
Exactly, when Eggman is the main human villain himself, since 1991
Gotta say, been watching all your Sonic videos, you've basically been describing why I love this franchise. Keep up the good work!
Unleashed had the best example
I think the Sonic movie peeked into the two worlds bit, and it makes a lot more sense than just Anthros and Humans living together. It'd definitely fill in a lot of blanks to certain things.
Not only that but my head canon is that certain beings are able to hop to different earth's, or in this case, from Mobius to Earth. There's a youtuber I recently watched that explains this better but I forgot their name. I think he does "What if" scenarios.
6:35 *inserts Megaman X4 What am I fighting for scene *
There are no "2 separate worlds" in the Sonic universe. That's just something Iizuka pulled out of his ass.
All sonic needs is decent well written characters, human or not human.
Honestly, having humans really helped with immersion as a kid. Seeing “real” people with sonic made me take him more seriously
I agree with everything except for getting rid of all the games from the past decade. Rather I would have games like Colors be remade/retold with the Adventure/Unleashed aesthetic. I really loved the concept of Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park, and it would've been really fun to see an Unleashed style hub world in each of the 6 world's with interaction with with park attractions and people who either give you interesting tips or side missions or simply talk about how they feel in Eggman's park. Personally, I feel like Colors is the game I would salvage that would greatly benefit in being remade with a better narrative and have the human aspect added.
Humans are practically required to have some characters work, like shadow the hedgehog's backstory is based around him wanting revenge on humanity because his oldest freind died. If he wanted revenge on purely animal characters, he wouldn't really team up with rouge and other characters because he'd be wanting revenge on them.
I agree, I want humans back in Sonic games. In more recent ones we haven’t really seen them. In Sonic Forces it was just a bunch of animals and no humans, besides Eggman. All the animals looked very similar to another anyway. Eggman was taking over 99% of the world and yet there were no humans to witness it, just animals...
THEY'RE BACK!!!!!!!
I didn't realize how weird it was for there not to be humans in Sonic's world, until that amusement park in Sonic Colors was completely empty! Especially in the cutscenes there's literally no one there! Eggman keeps talking on the radio as if there are actually people there, but there aren't any. Also the thought never occurred to me that G.U.N would totally do something about Eggman trying to take over in Sonic Forces.
The way I see it, there are pros and cons to both points, wether there are two worlds or one, from a story prospective and since the retcon, I don’t know if that’ll change any time soon, but there’s always fanfictions and head canons, like if I was to make Sonic story, I would have the two worlds thing be a thing in it until a cataclysmic event merges the two worlds into one
I still hope that, now that the previous writers have left the Sonic series, they will install Ian Flynn as the new writer for the main games.
He also hates the two worlds thing, so he might be able to fix things if he was in a position like that. :'D
Late to the party, but the common , regular ass human beings make the world of Sonic feel more magical and whimsical, just Cartoon animal characters make it feel samey
Last time I convince that to the community, they bombard me with hate comments
The tails v tuber actually retconed it back to being a unified world, the animal characters live in islands while humans live in the larger continents
It’s a good thing that “two worlds” thing was a translation error :) When translating with a proper understanding of Japanese, it’s much, much clearer that he meant there are different societies in Sonic’s world: societies of anthro characters, societies of humans.
Is that legit true so humans are still around in Sonic they just not shown yet since Unleashed because they're playing safe
It doesn't even have to humans, Just add more mobians in your games. I'm not talking about the mobians in forces, they felt hallow, they hardly said anything, and only appeared in, like, one scene in the entire game. They were just background characters Sega put in to try up the stakes, but failed at it. How are were supposed to care about characters, when sega only aknowledged them for a few minutes.
I always felt it weird that eggman was the only human in forces
Eggman was born on earth proof is in sonic x
@@Sylvy2637 thery are all born on earth
NO go watch the adventures of sonic
@@Sylvy2637 that has no bearing on the game series
@@Trigger99X ok
To be fair certain games wouldn't really make sense to have humans appear
I used to think that the humans were the problem in Sonic 06. I was wrong. If they make the humans not so dead eyed, I'm all for it! Elise wasn't a bad character. She just looked so creepy!
Yup you saw what happened in Sonic Forces. Same OCs 3 times
I actually liked the G.U.N commander.
X-Mighty were you high?
The angry Sonic fan ua-cam.com/video/4Qr8enS5u7M/v-deo.html
@@traktor420 No he isn't.
I just assumed the master emerald allowed Angel Island and its inhabitants to jump between the two worlds with chaos control or something similar.
The thing is on tails tube tails says every game is on the same world just different island
If your going to add Human, have them fit in the Art style of the Sonic Universe in a Cartoon mix with Anime style
Never go realistic Human in 06, they were boring
And never go too cartoony sonic unleshed has that problem for me
How about we make a combination of SA1 anime styled humans with the cartoonish style of Unleashed, it would fit a lot better in the games and it would compliment Eggman's design
Mephilis the dark /Elijah Ramatali also a sonic fan find that perfect mix of both Cartoonist and Anime, does that sound good?
HydroRobot SA1 were ok, they were somewhat Anime like, with 25% cartoon elements