Covenant theology is a contract of the obedience of faith, for the hope of eternal life, requiring grace in baptism, our state of grace, and the grace of Jesus to forgive past sins.
I am only half way through this video and I already ordered the book on Amazon! I am so excited. I really do think this will line up how my brain works. 🤓 Thank you for the interview! I will have a new read for my vacation next week. 👍
Perkins here asks 1689F to make it clear how OT believers were saved if only the New Covenant is the Covenant of Grace, suggesting that our view implies two different ways of salvation. I have much to say on this topic, but not enough time to say it. Lord willing more to come in the future (including a full response to the last RF video responding to 1689F). For now, I will simply note that Perkins puts great effort in minimizing the differences between Klineans and non-Klineans for the sake of unity, but conversely has put in effort to maximize differences between 1689F and WCF. Disagreements between Klineans and non-Klineans revolves around the meaning of "substance" as does our disagreement. The "republication" debate is interwoven with the baptism debate and always has been. The question is "Does one way of salvation necessarily entail that the substance of every covenant is the same?" Westminster says "Yes." John Owen (and the other Congregationalists), Lutherans, Baptists, and many others say "No, that does not follow." Please note Owen very carefully. He understands the issue quite clearly. 1) He acknowledges the "sole foundation" of WCF's view is the claim that one way of salvation = twofold administration of the same covenant. 2) He says this is mistaken logic. t.co/uq8mqk6bk3 Owen says the New Covenant operated "invisibly" prior to Pentecost. It "put forth its efficacy" with "no visible outward worship" (ordinances/sacraments). t.co/zY1eo0qsb5 How is that possible? Because ordinances/sacraments are not necessary for salvation. Berkhof (I could pull from many) "the sacraments are not absolutely necessary unto salvation... Think of the believers before the time of Abraham" t.co/K6V33OZiwX
No. Everyone was not condemned by sin, they were condemned whether or not they sinned, because Adam disobeyed God. In Romans 3:19 talks of those who have sinned.
🎉RF. Why do you always ask these questions of 1689. But never allow 1689F here to answer them? Why do we repeatedly have to publish responses on different websites that you never interact with? Nothing Harrison Perkins presents here is new to us. Nor is it difficult for us to answer. It's not even an answer unique to our version of Covenant Theology. It's the same answer John Owen gave. Do you cast him out of Reformed Theology as well?
Harrison Perkins is the author of a Reformed book which I see is very good and I hope to have this newly published book signed directly by the author himself, namely Harrison Perkins, Triune God bless. Can I download the pdf file or what?
At the 51 minute mark they state that Old Testament saints went to heaven when they died, and mocked the notion that they went to some "staging area." No, that's called Hades, which has a diverse geography. Of course O.T. saints didn't go to heaven because we SEE them rising and going to heaven upon the Death of Jesus.
1 Samuel 28:13-15 ESV - The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”
honestly i try to be into this covenant theology stuff. BUt it hard. HOnestly is boring sorry fellas. we the church need to be atuned into the bible verses and passages and just plainly talk and discuss it all. I say all this politely. But the church simply needs to stay within the bounds of scripture. Now, Im sure you all maybe some of You have heard of Dr. Warren Gage and his works. Different for sure check it out those into deep Typology, some allegory but some unHeard of exegesis that is rooted in early church history. Warren gage. CHeck out his teachings with Pastor Chip Bennett regarding Chiasim in John and Yes Revelation. SOme real Interesting stuff we Neeed to hear. Blessing in CHrist.
No, no, no. Romans 4 Abraham learns about forgiveness, but is not saved in a Trinity situation, not the same way directly by God as then, but saved by the Father and Son.
Covenant theology is a contract of the obedience of faith, for the hope of eternal life, requiring grace in baptism, our state of grace, and the grace of Jesus to forgive past sins.
This was interesting.
I am only half way through this video and I already ordered the book on Amazon! I am so excited. I really do think this will line up how my brain works. 🤓 Thank you for the interview! I will have a new read for my vacation next week. 👍
Perkins here asks 1689F to make it clear how OT believers were saved if only the New Covenant is the Covenant of Grace, suggesting that our view implies two different ways of salvation.
I have much to say on this topic, but not enough time to say it. Lord willing more to come in the future (including a full response to the last RF video responding to 1689F).
For now, I will simply note that Perkins puts great effort in minimizing the differences between Klineans and non-Klineans for the sake of unity, but conversely has put in effort to maximize differences between 1689F and WCF. Disagreements between Klineans and non-Klineans revolves around the meaning of "substance" as does our disagreement. The "republication" debate is interwoven with the baptism debate and always has been.
The question is "Does one way of salvation necessarily entail that the substance of every covenant is the same?"
Westminster says "Yes."
John Owen (and the other Congregationalists), Lutherans, Baptists, and many others say "No, that does not follow."
Please note Owen very carefully. He understands the issue quite clearly.
1) He acknowledges the "sole foundation" of WCF's view is the claim that one way of salvation = twofold administration of the same covenant.
2) He says this is mistaken logic.
t.co/uq8mqk6bk3
Owen says the New Covenant operated "invisibly" prior to Pentecost.
It "put forth its efficacy" with "no visible outward worship" (ordinances/sacraments).
t.co/zY1eo0qsb5
How is that possible? Because ordinances/sacraments are not necessary for salvation.
Berkhof (I could pull from many)
"the sacraments are not absolutely necessary unto salvation... Think of the believers before the time of Abraham"
t.co/K6V33OZiwX
Harrison! What's up bro!?
No. Everyone was not condemned by sin, they were condemned whether or not they sinned, because Adam disobeyed God. In Romans 3:19 talks of those who have sinned.
🎉RF. Why do you always ask these questions of 1689. But never allow 1689F here to answer them? Why do we repeatedly have to publish responses on different websites that you never interact with? Nothing Harrison Perkins presents here is new to us. Nor is it difficult for us to answer. It's not even an answer unique to our version of Covenant Theology. It's the same answer John Owen gave. Do you cast him out of Reformed Theology as well?
Harrison Perkins is the author of a Reformed book which I see is very good and I hope to have this newly published book signed directly by the author himself, namely Harrison Perkins, Triune God bless.
Can I download the pdf file or what?
At the 51 minute mark they state that Old Testament saints went to heaven when they died, and mocked the notion that they went to some "staging area." No, that's called Hades, which has a diverse geography. Of course O.T. saints didn't go to heaven because we SEE them rising and going to heaven upon the Death of Jesus.
Ephesians 4:8-10
1 Samuel 28:13-15 ESV - The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”
honestly i try to be into this covenant theology stuff. BUt it hard. HOnestly is boring sorry fellas.
we the church need to be atuned into the bible verses and passages and just plainly talk and discuss it all. I say all this politely. But the church simply needs to stay within the bounds of scripture. Now, Im sure you all maybe some of You have heard of Dr. Warren Gage and his works. Different for sure check it out those into deep Typology, some allegory but some unHeard of exegesis that is rooted in early church history. Warren gage. CHeck out his teachings with Pastor Chip Bennett regarding Chiasim in John and Yes Revelation. SOme real Interesting stuff we Neeed to hear. Blessing in CHrist.
No, no, no. Romans 4 Abraham learns about forgiveness, but is not saved in a Trinity situation, not the same way directly by God as then, but saved by the Father and Son.