To me the problem with age gaps is not how big they are but *when* they occur, specifically in the timeline of the younger partner's life. 30 year old Wilmer Valderrama dating 17 year old Demi Lovato fresh out of rehab, when he's had a history of dating teenage starlets like Mandy Moore and Lindsay Lohan, is wrong. And the age gap is 12 years. Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas' age gap is 22 years, yet I have no problem with that, since she was over the age of the 30 when they met, had agency and life experience, and simply fell for an older person. So I'm more inclined to judge the timeline of an age gap-relationship, rather than how big it is.
I was just thinking about this in relation to Sarah Paulson & Holland Taylor, who have a 32 year age gap, Sarah in her 40s when they got together (and already had a thriving career), vs Kate Beckinsale, who has been with several young men from ages ~20 /21 to 26 at time of getting together, with the men considerably less famous or established than her. I'm not sure that I would necessarily categorize it as predation, but Beckinsale's track record definitely gives me a bit of an icky feeling, whereas Paulson & Taylor in a loving committed relationship and speaking effusively about each other in public makes me feel genuinely happy for them. Both examples are also not the traditional patriarchal archetype of Established Older Man & Ingenue Younger Woman so I think that complicates the conversation, but I agree that it definitely depends on the timeline of the relationship and the power dynamics at play at the start of that timeline.
I was going to mention Demi Lovato and Wilder valderrama. We know he's known for dating underage girls. But I loved Demi song about basically. Was this okay? Because now she's the age that he was when he started dating her and it's like not okay. I mean yes child actors, child stars have a lot more life experience than a regular child because they're in an adult space. But yeah no. I mean she didn't call him a pedophile but it's like looking back at your life and now that you are that age like what would I have in common with a 17-year-old?
Exactly. Age gaps in themselves are not the issue. It is though when the younger of the couple is literally a minor. When someone is abused, groomed, bought, coerced in any way. That's when it's an issue. Adults choosing to date each other is their own problem.
So, if you’re the “illegal age,” it’s okay? Nah, I don’t agree. Just because they are “illegal” age, doesn’t mean their mind, and action is. I will ALWAYS look at dudes who date very young women, who can still be naive, the way I look at pedos who are 24, and seeking a 14 year old teen girl. Regardless, older dudes who look for very young women, to me, are still pedo, and alpha disgusting dudes. And, the reasons why they date them, because it’s easy to control young minds, instead of someone who are close to their age. And, of course, power. I hate when people think just because a young woman is 18, 19 years old, which is “illegal” age, it’s “okay” for them to date a pedo who is 30 plus. And research showed that women aren’t really mature until their older adulthood. I don’t agree on age gap, because if you support them, because they are “illegal,” might as well support pedo relationships with teens. Edited: I wonder if this chick think 16 is STILL okay to date a pedo, I mean, a dude who is 30 plus, because in their state, 16 is “illegal” for “consent,” which I highly disagree with, so this chick thinks it’s okay!?!? If so, then I wouldn’t come to her with answers.
Recently I went on a social news network thread to ask women a question. I asked women on why do they think men put down women for being single. I then proceeded and say that men like to tell women that "They will be single forever", "They will d i e alone", "This is why you have no man" and "This is why you have no husband". I then did some research and studies on marriage and here’s what I got. Both men and women benefit from marriage, but men benefit from it more than women. The reason why men benefit from marriage more is because married men live longer, they make more money, they have better health and more. Also, research and studies say that married men with children are happier than single men and married men live longer than single men. On the flip side, research and studies says that single unmarried women without children are happier and live longer than married women who have children. So, in conclusion, married men are the happiest and single women without children are the happiest. There was an article by Psychology Today by Greg Matos, and he wrote an article titled “What’s Behind the Rise of Single Lonely, Men”. He said in the article that in reality, you don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy, but men are typically happier and healthier when they are partnered. On the Reddit thread, some of the replies said that the reason why men shame single unmarried women without children is really projection. Men are the ones who really don’t want to be single, and they don’t want to d i e alone so they project those fears towards women.
So much to it. A social construct and it gets romanticized for girls starting out with fairytales. I finally watched bridgerton last month (the girls didn’t have a clue) & saw FD signifier’s video essay on why father’s aren’t in the home which hit on the functionalism behind marriage for me. I remember my professor showing the inverse relationship between happiness with marriage between husbands and wives and around that time started to see some of the wedding/marriage culture in my peers
I have heard about those studies. The reason married men live longer is because they have wives who remind them that they have to go to the doctor and such. Single men won't think of such things on their own. On the flip side single women will remember to take care of their health, while married women will take care of everybody else ahead of themselves.
I agree I read those statistics as well, I am much happier single in a relationship a man is always trying to emotionally manipulate me and to disregard my feelings it’s a lot of work …life is much easier for me this way I do not want to be single for ever as I am in my 30’s but I am excellent with where I am at mentally,emotionally and financially
I know shes a white woman, but the Brooke Shield's documentary on HULU really highlights the bad currency of beauty. The exploration she experienced was sickening!
I wonder though, can it be fully attributed to beauty though? Coz ‘unattractive’ women go through similar, if not worse. To where they aren’t believed when they give testimony.
@@mergerogue4291 i agree, at the same time tho, if she wasnt so "beautiful" and wasnt able to be a child star to the same extent, would she have experienced the same exploitation? Probably not to the same extent as she did
I'm of the opinion that each consenting-adult should date whomever (consenting-adult) they want to. However I do believe there is wisdom in age, and sometimes you only realize the 'exploitative' aspect of the relationship once you're 'out of it'
I am 37 and I have barely realized in the past few years how much my exes used my trauma to get off. My ex husband was significantly older than me and we met when I was 24. Most of my relationships were with older men because of my trauma. I was so messed up by that point that I had no idea what was happening to me. I "consented" and didn't realize for a decade how f'ed it really was until I had a lot of therapy. He even made jokes about how he wanted them to only fix the parts of me that bothered him, not the stuff he liked despite the fact that it was like cutting to me. I still struggle with my trauma and involving myself with some of that because PTSD is pervasive and no matter what you do it's always lurking in the corner. These people will exploit your trauma and situation and they know exactly what they are doing. There's always exceptions to the rule, but 99% of these relationships are horrible in ways that are you can't understand until you get help and have some distance from the situation.
I think many women know this through experience and that's why they take issue with these kinds of relationships because they've been there and ultimately know the damage that some of these relationships can cause. Sending you love, forgive yourself you didnt know better then.
I think the solution is education. Consenting adults should be able to engage in relationships. Just let the young girlies know that to keep any of the wealth, they need the promises notorized. I think the uneven power dynamics also appears in gay male relationships.
Large age gaps are common in many cultures, especially with men being older (speaking of heterosexual relationships). I usually give a side eye when one of the persons in the relationship is younger than 30 due to possible power imbalances, but by ~30+ I don’t side eye age gaps in most cases. Overall, each situation is different, and as you said, not black and white. For example, I know a couple where the wife was mid 20s and husband was late 40s at their time of marriage (20+ age gap) and their love seemed genuine and not predatory. 15 years later they’re still happily married. As far as the 80+ year olds, their relationships don’t bother me but them still having kids is unethical.
Y'know honestly, hearing the married women in my life I'm always wondering 'do you even want sex', 'are you ok'? I hope it never gets like that for me 😖
What's been quite shocking to me is that the people talking about these grown women as if they're children seemingly don't realize how misogynistic it is to presume that grown women aren't capable of making decisions for themselves like that's sexism 101, baby!
I don't care what _adults_ do in the privacy of their bedrooms as long as no one gets hurt - everyone chooses it, and the relationship was based on transparency. As soon as a minor is involved, someone is abused or lied to or used or bought... it's a problem. But we've done a piss-poor job protecting ACTUAL CHILDREN (like from the RCC) to be all up in arms about 20+ year olds choosing people who are older. Even if they're doing it for money or clout or security. As long as the older person doesn't care, IMHO, it's none of our business.
@@brooklyndecember or, I have it right. If a younger person decides to use an older person for money, I don't care if they don't. It sucks if a younger person feels they have no other options - a job, family, etc, but that wasn't what this video is about. If you want to talk reforming culture/economics/capitalism and giving everyone free college, then I'm all there for that. But some young people are still going to want to pursue wealth through relationships and marriage and I'm not their mama to tell them no.
I think the issue of Paternalism is a complicated one when talking about oppression and is something that is delicately balanced. So, do people know they are oppressed without being taught they are oppressed? The answer is yes and no as folks who are oppressed often side against themselves and work toward their own oppression. So, when talking about age gaps and power dynamics, saying well they are making clear decisions and consent the question becomes well are they oppressed and don't know it? That issue shows up in class relations all the time when people who would MOST benefit from unions oppose unions. This is where the balance of paternalism and oppression conversations struggle and head butt each other.
When i think about how beauty is a bad investment, I always think about Kanye West hopping up the conventionally attractive hierarchy, aka ds-bw, ls-bw, mediterranean-ww, ww. There always is a next best thing. Young women should move with that fact in mind and plan accordingly.
@@Youokhun It can be a "good" investment, if young women have the forsight to prepare for their life after the relationship ends. If they use their partner's ressources and access as a springboard for better opportunities, build themselves a nest egg, have a good exit strategy, etc. Otherwise, not so much: dating older wealthier powerful cishet men isnt for the faint of heart.
I've had to reflect on this recently too. I said something to my partner about 9 years being a lot, and he was like umm what are you saying about my parents then? because his mum is 10 years older than his dad and they had a lovely marriage (they aren't broken up, his dad passed away; I know, who would have thought the one 10 years younger would go first). when they got married, he was 25 and she was 35 and they had two kids and were a pretty happy family. like it seems like his dad had full agency and was not exploited in any way by this secretary he met while making a delivery so I have to rethink some things about age gaps.
Thanks for streaming! Im a 30 year old gay man, and when i was 19 i got with a 31 year old man. It was my first relationship, and i didnt know until years later that he was a sexual predator. He was a band tracher and was caught with one of his students. When you add the fact that i looked 13 when i was 19 it all starts to make sense. He was the most controlling person ever. One night my best friend and i we were hanging out at his(predators) house, and i suddenly started to feel sick. I allowed my friend to use my phone for watching netflix, and went to lie down. Shortly after i went to lie down he took my phone from my friend and went into the bathroom. He knew my friend would tell me, right? I ended up having enough of his shit, and i ended up punching him in the face for reasons i dont feel the need to justify. This is an example of an exploititive relationship. I was naive and foolish. I wasnt old enough to unserstand i was being preyed upon. When i was 25 i got with my current partner who was 41 at the time. Ive never been happier. The amount of growing up you do from 19-25 is huge. Looking back at my previous relationship makes me sick. Just knowing that i was being used. So, I only have my personal experience to look back on, but in my opinion 18-23 shouldnt be dating someone 10+ years older than them. Its so easy to control someone when theyre so much younger, and in love with you. Like i said; just my personal experience.
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? Like a college senior dating a college freshman? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and like a girl in college who is in 1st year of college so she is either 18 about to turn 19 soon or is already 19 now so we are only like 3 years apart in age. We chat on Instagram daily and we do get along well and don't see any maturity gap so far and can relate to each other as we are both college age so would it be fine to ask her out?
I get that is your experience but at 19 in college, I dated a 32 year old and it was hands down my best dating experience. The options for us as gay men are already small but we met at a club and were both musicians and connected over that as friends first than began dating months later. We each had clear boundaries from the start and genuinely enjoyed each other’s conversations and company. I also felt inspired by seeing a gay man living a good life and thriving when there weren’t many examples of it in the media at the time. And I had someone to talk to who had been through the some of the stuff I was struggling with and had nobody to really understand before then. I also had the safety of not worrying about sneaking around and stuff because he had a career and a car. If someone is a predator or criminal, no matter their age they will use violence and manipulation against you. But someone simply being older is not a sign of a predator. Being predatory is. Individuals as adults should be able to decide what they are comfortable with as a partner. And at 19, I was paying thousands of dollars for school AND working, so I was not a child 🤷🏾♂️
I'm surprised you didn't address Mary K Letourneau. She was a married parent and a teacher who pursued her underage male student and ultimately left her family to marry and have children with her student. She was relentlessly predatory about that boy child.
@@MK-hh1voThats not her because Mary Letourneau died 3 years ago from cancer. But its true that while she was married with four kids she fell in love with a 12 year old child who she groomed.
Also, it can't hurt to mention that she was white and the boy child was Asian. I wonder how things would have played out if the ethnicities were reversed.
There's always some level of inequality and codependence in any relationship--that's what a relationship is. It's just a matter of managing it, knowing your boundaries, what you're willing to compromise, etc.
Psychology says that you can be 25 and still behave younger due to trauma. Trauma can stunt your psychological growth. This needs to be considered. And as feminists we know that there is racial, gender and other traumas due to chronic stress. So some of these women can have traumas that make their relationship choices bordeline unethical to unethical. Idk about illegal after 25 but there's something there. There's a reason we don't like it, and I say trust your gut specially to women.
Careesha and Noor are both 29 while Diddy and Pacino are 53 and 83 respectively, so while they are all above 25, I can see why there are people going ick over seeing those pairings. Robert DeNiro and tiffany, on the other hand, while there is a huge age gap between them (79 and 45), while there are some people going ick over their age gap, I don't think their age gap is the main reason that couple is getting backlash because there are plenty of white women her age that date and marry men significantly older than them and no one is complaining about that. I think that couple is getting backlash is simply because Tiffany is an older non-mixed Asian woman (East Asian in her case; likely divorced as well) that is in a relationship with a non-Asian man.
There are plenty of predatory relationships that get little to no outrage; only a few getting a lot of outrage. Billie Eillish and that 31 year old she was with. Courtney Strodden being married at 16 to some 51 year old guy. JewWario grooming one of his young female staff members when she was 18 (one of the incidents mentioned in the Channel Awesome controversy). Woody Allen grooming and marrying his ex-wife's adopted daughter. Celine Dion's marriage to a man that groomed her when she was young. Leonardo DiCaprio constantly dating young women and dumping them when they turn 24-25. Drake having a "special" relationship with one of the Stranger Things female stars. Demi Lovato and Wilmer Valderrama's relationship. Taylor Swift and John Mayer's relationships. That white female teacher that groomed one of her male Asian students and then married him. Numerous stories of male Christian and Mormon pastors, priests, and influencers getting caught harming children and grooming girls and young women. The marriage between Lauren Boebert and her husband. The relationship between Tohru Honda's parents (the Furuba/Fruits Basket fans were not happy about that). Cardcaptors Sakura having two student-teacher relationships featuring a male teacher and a female student; one of those relationships being Sakura's parents. Kuchi ga Saketemo Kimi ni wa having a couple met when the wife was the teenage daughter of a rich man and the husband was a police officer. The story of how Ichigo's parents met (in Bleach). Older cis straight men going to East Europe and non-white countries to prey on teenage girls and young women. Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis's marriage is creepy when you remember that Mila was the only actual teenager in the cast when she was on That 70's show. Brooke Shields and how she was exploited by older men. Bill Cosby and his long history of abusing women. R Kelly and his long history of preying on teenage girls. One of Doug Ford's opponents being revealed to be a creep and groomer of teenage girls (yet he almost won since so many white people voted for him). Donald Trump sexually harassing the Miss America pagent contestants. Ned Fulmer hiring Alex when she was a young impressionable fan of the Try Guys on Buzzfeed; then continued his affair with her when Try Guys left Buzzfeed to create their own company. Jay-z and Beyonce when you realize that Beyonce dated Jay-Z when she was 19 and Jay-Z was in his 30s. What happened to Aliayah and the man she got groomed by. The relationship between tyga and kylie jenner. Subjective: Mr. Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman constantly dating young women and dumping them when they mature and become too old for him. Disney has a good chunk of stories in shows and movies where the female characters is a teenager to young adult in a relationship with a man that is older than them and 21+; one example being Rapunzel and Eugene where Rapunzel is 18 while Eugene is 25. Gauken Babysitters featured a mom that met her ex-husband when she was a student and he was a teacher ... then later on had a terrible rocky marriage to the point that they got a divorce and never want to get back together.
that twitter rant just symbolized the attitude of "trial by vibes" - "i don't like it. it gives me the ick. let's make it illegal"....which is not how shit works.
With Diddy having an history of dating women very young/ barely legal. The mother of his first son was in highschool while he was in his late 20s, how old was Cassie when he've got with her ? Even if Kim was off age we saw that he had with her the same toxic power dynamic he had in relationship with the younger women. I think it is more that people are dissecting him and Caresha's relationship through this lense. This is why I wouldn't put this relationship as an equivalent of Pacino's, Dinero,...
I haven't really gotten into the video, but I do think it's worth a conversation on how a lot of us continue to normalize large age gaps because it's either reflective in our own parental figures or the expressed advice of older women in our families. Dating older has always been presented as a catch all by older women: he will be more financially stable, he will treat you better and play less mind games. Those things are simply not true and as we have men boldly on the internet proclaiming that 30 is too old and there is a another girl turning 18 everyday easier to manipulate and mold, I appreciate these conversations and its nuances. Caresha and Diddy don't make me bat an eye becauae Caresha is hella grown in my opinion, but I do think the sexually driven infantalization on young women and over sexualization of ten girls (15 -19, think Britney Spears' Rolling Stones cover) has some very dark roots in our previous social accessibility and should be further explored. Remember, having a period was considered adult and most of us have the first much older man approach us at age 12 (in my and my peers lived experience/anecdotal). I mean Woman are thought to be too old outside of their 20s and we see a lot of Public examples of men leaving their already younger wives for younger ones and although 45 and 70 are just two adults going about their business, what does the prevalence of such relationships signal to the average young girl that grows up with messages about being picked and not dying alone. I guess it's to say that it's not just the gap, but the age of the younger person in combination with the gap that needs to be explored. My bad if I am completely off base with the video. Edit: Sooo... I am 13 minutes in and I am completely off base 😂. These are all older😂 women. I was thinking about Marcus Houston and his wife (I saw his interview🤦🏾♀️) or Wilmer and Demi. Edit 2: Okay, 18 minutes in and I have decided I need to fully watch the video.
Honestly, i dont think 18 is old enough to consent to sex or a relationship with anyone over the age of like, 20, and the fact that legally its 18 or younger in most states, makes the whole conversation different. I am dating someone 16 years older than me, however, my pre frontal cortex is finished forming, our relationship is great. When I was 18, i was dating a 24 year old, and that relationship was rife with abuse. Maturity is a funny thing, a 26 year old can be more mature than a 50 year old, but there are ABSOLUTELY ZERO mature 18 year olds. Am i making sense?? At 18 I was no match for even a slightly older guy, at 26 I am confident enough to make my own decisions on who I am compatible with. I have found men within the assumed to be socially respectable age gap, are often extremely immature. I am definitely not one of those people who "prefers" to date older men. Maturity is certainly a spectrum, and anyone at any age can be immature. Problem is, 18, 19 year olds are EXPECTED to be immature because theres nothing else they CAN be. A 40 year old doesn't have a reason or excuse, and immature grown ass people 100% need to stay away from very young people. Problem is.. ... They dont do that.
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? Like a college senior dating a college freshman? Yeah 18 and 22 might be strange if the 18 year old is still in high school but is it still bad if both are in college? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and like a girl in college who is in 1st year of college so she is either 18 about to turn 19 soon or is already 19 now so we are only like 3 years apart in age. We chat on Instagram daily and we do get along well and don't see any maturity gap so far and can relate to each other as we are both college age.
@Manosij Roy I think that's fine as you guys are in the same life arena. The predatory nature of age gap relationships in my opinion is not just the biological age , but also which stage of life you are in. Often times the older person has so much live experience which can be weaponised towards the younger person, but because you guys are going through college together , I don't think it's too bad .
I commented earlier that 18 isn't an arbitrarily number. In a time when child brides were societal norm feminists pushed to have the od consent to 21. Men in power were up in arms! For many reasons 18 was a Hugh as they would compromise. Some states still have 13-15 on the books.
I don’t like age gap relationships I think they are inherently predatory when one of the partners in late teens early twenties. Comparing to pedophillia is over the top but it’s not right either
We can still marry children in states 12-17 year old kids and that generates less social media outrage and I wonder if that’s the celebrity driven culture or if it’s so performative moral outrage that everyone knows this and picks to drag these women in the public eye.
Why is it yuck when a woman gets pregnant by a younger man. But not when a 29 year old gets pregnant by an 83 year old. Old aint sexy. Im sure ol girl was atleast attracted to the younger man. An 83 year old probably wont live long enough to see that kid graduate jr.high. The young guy will probably live long enough to watch his kid be a grandparent.
I am sorry but when I see the Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro situation i just see two women securing their bags. They are all in on a financial/legacy transaction.
There are women out there who are deliberately looking for sugar daddies. These men are older than them, but they are in transactional relationships where the women are looking for status and power, while the women are looking for youth and beauty. Its a win/win on both sides.
I want no 18-25 year old to experience what I have but that’s not realistic it’s going to happen and I love this post is an example of what would’ve been helpful for me at that age.
The second caller gave the example of the football player, when I read the story it was that his boyfriend messaged him when he was 18. That’s seems a bit icky to me
Why do activists/feminists/social justice folk spend so much time on ultra high net worth “rich and famous” celebrities and not the politics of everyday folk?
This brings me back to the passport bros discussion. Western women(feminists) framed women from Asia, Africa etc as if they don’t have agency (child like, naive) in these passport bro situations. As an African myself the child like depiction western feminist were making about us made me 🤮. Sure there is power dynamic between men from western countries with money and poorer women from less developed countries, but most us are aware and just trying to get into our passport privilege bag. Like western feminist are capable of understanding hypergamy but when they see women from less developing countries doing it they cannot comprehend it. That alone says everything about how aligned western feminism and white supremacy are .
Absolutely true 🙌🏽 let’s keep calling out the real weirdo behavior instead of the easy call out against women using their sexuality for advancement and men allowing it by funding these women’s lifestyles basically, to an extent ofc because as mentioned there are risks.
This is such an interesting topic to me as my mom was 16 years younger than my dad but met him at 28. But I agree this topic has so many nuances. At first I was all for Caresha and Diddy but after the baby and all the publicly embarrassing things that have happened I just can’t support. But she’s getting her bag or whatever 😅 another situation where the male was way younger than the guy is Cher dating Amber Rose’s baby father. Random but that’s Hollywood for ya.
45 and 79… Honestly, she may be in a position to take advantage of him, her brain is running peak performance, while his is on the decline. As for Caresha and Puffy, a fair exchange ain’t a robbery 🤷🏽♀️ The woman is 30 years old for all intents and purposes…she’s not a child, nor is she naive or inexperienced in the ways of life. I feel that if you’re five years out from your frontal lobe being fully developed, you should be able to date as far up as you feel comfortable.
Insightful as always. I saw this live on Twitter and LOL'd. Claiming one's a victim of p*d* at the big ol' age of 30+ is A LOT! I'm a late millenial ('93) and I've always been interested in men older than me, whether it's a few years or several years. Never was coerced to do it. Growing up as an only child, I'm used to talking to older folks more and feel more comfortable. The power struggle is much more nuanced. Long as both parties consent and there's no inclination of harm, mind the business that is your own.
Like the problem is mainly misogyny. Idk why we can't just say that. Men wanting to date 20+ years their junior is about how society doesn't value age and experience in women. We can have that discussion without making everyone into a pedo despite dating a grown ass woman that could never be mistaken for a teenager.
They are the women who have to be with them in their day and that is not what I want any younger woman with life ahead dealing with but women who have thought this out made the choice that works for them. They have a comfortable life hopefully and actual love.
I just think of these relationships as sex workers with 1 client. I'm pro sex workers. I just hope these people are as smart as traditional sex workers and stack cash, not just designer goods. And don't get confused about the truth of the relationship - even if there's true love there.
Excitement hearing dive into the nuances yayyy cuz I get triggered and I know there’s nuance outside my anger at men. Cuz I’ve 31 and boy is it a different universe mentally than 18-25. But the men get a glare from me.
I was literally writing a comment on how do we expect to be treated as fully fleshed out human beings on both sides of these situations if we contunue to lean into treating each other as things to bought/traded, when you said theres no solutions lol. But also yes, abolish heterosexuality as a societal structure lmao cuz y'all are not okay 😂
Everybody who knew me at 18 sees me still as a baby not even just a teen anymore but because I grew even more so they are like omg you little kid now ur like a little adult. Wtf disgusting
I understand wanting to give people space to To say I might be dating this person who is far older than me. But I know exactly what i'm doing. Like I understand the wants to not be paternalistic but when people Dating decisions that I think are bad and it ends up not working out for them Part of me feels like "I knew it's right" and that's a terrible feeling to have
My question is - where are these old men’s (and women’s) adult children? Someone get their daddy! Gift them vasectomies at 50! 40! This is nonsense. Protect your parents & their generational wealth. Question yourself as a parent - are you raising your child right if bagging a baby with a nearly dead old man is their only economic option? There’s no consideration for the child/ren made in this relationship or their relationship with his children or grandchildren. 🫤
The crazy part is that Pacinos baby mama is from a super rich family, her daddy is an arab prince or something and she has been datinig ONLY order men. Personally I find it weird but hey….
I don’t know if I can fully appreciate the strategic situation between Careesha and Diddy. If by appreciate, we’re referring to the fact that she gets gifts and money and other luxuries then …I guess. Aye, as long as she doesn’t get pregnant…live it up 😂
I so badly wissshhhh I coulda chatted in I would’ve been so good for this as a 21 yo exotic dancer who just had an argument with my older sister about the equal exchange that’s happening and specifically at sur Beverly Hills over brunch since she’s a rhw fan LOL. my week has been so based on the consumer vs producer
Also surrounding different morals ways of living, and she seemed to see me as being deprived of my mind body and soul I went out on a date w an older man regular too, French, and he was trying to tell me it’s not a forever career choice and it can b toxic not only for me but for men as well which is tru, but consensual and everything is toxic to someone contextually and luckily it’s not my forever choice, although I know 21 is a little to young to know everything I will and won’t accept I been around enough to notice what beauty does for and to someone in every aspect of life , for myself , my mom , and my Dads conquests, ofc I know it usually tends to go wrong when ur capitalizing but have no capital of ur own , when u put all ur eggs in one basket and forget about keeping some for u and growing them WHILE u have the chance *
As a dancer u want to do the finessing not the other waynworund and everything is on the table not sneakily or quite as manipulatively in a way, that’s y I decided to make capital off of it thank u so much for materializing thoughts I forget others can see sometimes and feel as well, ppl have forgotten so much ab nuances I really lose hope for anyone caring enough to learn deeper (as Taylor swift cardigan and Lana deal Rey young and beautiful play from my neighbors window )
If relationships start after the younger person is 25 yr old+, no one including me cares. It is what it is. 18 - 25 yr old is a grey area. Gaps between someone's intelligence, sentience, streets smarts, and physical health make the consent within a myriad of contexts very difficult to define in this area. Not everyone wants the cookie cutter relationship everyone else has. The way modern society seems to be it seems like this period is about discovering who you are and what you want. So a committed relationship at this age is what is frowned on. Ages puberty (8 to 18) is slightly easier to define only because of where they go to school. There are some girls in this range who will be taller and more physically developed with secondary sex characteristics than I ever will be at any point of my whole life.
Just wanna clarify that the second guy (who was very fucking cute) misread the age of the young soccer player. The soccer player he’s referring to came out at 17 and the man he’s now dating who is in his late 40’s messaged him immediately after he came out. That is definitely predatory.
Yeah after 25 to about 28 I’d consider that grown and that after that I’d just side eye power dynamics w. Huge age gaps that’s abusive but other than that no issue. And I’d say 25-28 you have enough life experience to hopefully make wise decisions.
Is 19 and 22 fine for dating? I am a 22 year old guy who is in last year of college and I like a girl in my college who is in 1st year of college and she is 19 now so we are only 3 years apart. Will it be fine to ask her out?
I think the difference is the age of the women and not the age gap. A 45 year old woman, a 29 year old woman vs an 18 year old or 21 year old. Monetary success of these women also plays a huge part in this. The age gap really isn't much of an issue. Its the age of the younger individual. Its the difference in financial status
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and I like a girl in my college who is in 1st year and she is 19 now so we are only 3 years apart in age and I wanna ask her out.
Look, yeah age exploitation is a thing. And for adult humans is can be tricky to pin down. As an alternate perspective, I've had a 14+ years older partner for a decade. There have absolutely been power struggles. End of day my priority was securing mine and as such, I can make my own decisions without being beholden to my person. This was not at all true when I was married to someone near my age.
I think its using on both ways.. 19 or 20 or 30 year old dating someone significantly older please believe there is a financial benefit going on in exchange for being in the relationship. Its life and people need to chill.. at 19 I may have been immature about many things but getting money was not one of them . I know women who have had their life trajectory changed for the better by dating an older man and are now married to someone closer to their age .. and the wealth they were able to build during being with the old man was crazy
How interesting that all this moral indignance over "age gap" relationships and "power dynamics" is starting to really trend in the last couple years, now that millennial women are starting to reach their mid 30s (the exact age where romance starts getting a lot harder for women). I'm sure that's just a weird coincidence. Yup, I'm sure they ALWAYS had a moral objection with age gap relationships, they just randomly started expressing in now in their mid 30s, and for purely compassionate and non-self-serving reasons. /s
The only thing that makes it less of a problem from a heterosexual perspective is that being with the same sex would eliminate a sexism power struggle.
It is extremely embarrassing to crash out over a man when you’ve opted into this kind of arrangement. That’s why I said making your own money is still undefeated.
Heterosexuality doesnt have to mean exploiting each other for beauty vs money/material things. Thats the patriarchal definition of heterosexuality. There are many healthy and ethical heterosexual relationships. If anybody got some credible resources, im all ears.
Tbh I think there also needs to be a conversation about frail old men being taken advantage of bc elder abuse I don’t think is talked about enough but just adds a layer of nuance
Why is beauty labelled "a tool" ? Can beauty just be...beauty? I don't see it as an investment because all women are subject to the consequences of patriarchy regardless of their beauty status. Beauty doesnt really have a tangible privilege imho
It does have some tangible privilege tho... I read somewhere that people that a large number of other people found attractive tend to make more money / treated better
Hmm, I think people need to stay worried about folks who are children and young adults. Nobody 80 years old needs to be dating a 19 year old, but once a person is 25 or older and that adult brain has kicked in folks need to mind their business unless their is clear indications of some sort of abuse. 🤷🏽♀️
Older men have always liked younger women. It was just something that I seen growing up and my dad warned me about. My parents are only one year apart but a lot of the kids parents I went to school with their mom is 40 years old and their dad is almost touching 60 I think age gaps are fine after the person is 25 I think by that time you have enough life experience, and you at least are fully grown
I will say there's an important difference between being sexually attracted to and wanting to have sex with. As a grown man, sure sometimes I will see a 19yr old and think "hot body" or whatever, but I never see a 19yr old and think "I want that person to be my lover" because there's (or should be) a lot more to "is sex a good idea emotionally and morally" than "are they hot".
When we act shocked because men are flashing their money, and theyre upset that they are desired for the funds is it not the same as women being told to cover up if they don’t want the (sub: negative) attention from men? 1:08:26
Its really a half baked thought but I’d love any opinions. I’d also like to note that the men that are flashing the money are probably different from the women being told this. So yea🫣
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To me the problem with age gaps is not how big they are but *when* they occur, specifically in the timeline of the younger partner's life. 30 year old Wilmer Valderrama dating 17 year old Demi Lovato fresh out of rehab, when he's had a history of dating teenage starlets like Mandy Moore and Lindsay Lohan, is wrong. And the age gap is 12 years. Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas' age gap is 22 years, yet I have no problem with that, since she was over the age of the 30 when they met, had agency and life experience, and simply fell for an older person. So I'm more inclined to judge the timeline of an age gap-relationship, rather than how big it is.
I was just thinking about this in relation to Sarah Paulson & Holland Taylor, who have a 32 year age gap, Sarah in her 40s when they got together (and already had a thriving career), vs Kate Beckinsale, who has been with several young men from ages ~20 /21 to 26 at time of getting together, with the men considerably less famous or established than her.
I'm not sure that I would necessarily categorize it as predation, but Beckinsale's track record definitely gives me a bit of an icky feeling, whereas Paulson & Taylor in a loving committed relationship and speaking effusively about each other in public makes me feel genuinely happy for them. Both examples are also not the traditional patriarchal archetype of Established Older Man & Ingenue Younger Woman so I think that complicates the conversation, but I agree that it definitely depends on the timeline of the relationship and the power dynamics at play at the start of that timeline.
I was going to mention Demi Lovato and Wilder valderrama. We know he's known for dating underage girls. But I loved Demi song about basically. Was this okay? Because now she's the age that he was when he started dating her and it's like not okay. I mean yes child actors, child stars have a lot more life experience than a regular child because they're in an adult space. But yeah no. I mean she didn't call him a pedophile but it's like looking back at your life and now that you are that age like what would I have in common with a 17-year-old?
Exactly. Age gaps in themselves are not the issue. It is though when the younger of the couple is literally a minor. When someone is abused, groomed, bought, coerced in any way. That's when it's an issue. Adults choosing to date each other is their own problem.
Well said
So, if you’re the “illegal age,” it’s okay? Nah, I don’t agree. Just because they are “illegal” age, doesn’t mean their mind, and action is. I will ALWAYS look at dudes who date very young women, who can still be naive, the way I look at pedos who are 24, and seeking a 14 year old teen girl. Regardless, older dudes who look for very young women, to me, are still pedo, and alpha disgusting dudes. And, the reasons why they date them, because it’s easy to control young minds, instead of someone who are close to their age. And, of course, power.
I hate when people think just because a young woman is 18, 19 years old, which is “illegal” age, it’s “okay” for them to date a pedo who is 30 plus. And research showed that women aren’t really mature until their older adulthood. I don’t agree on age gap, because if you support them, because they are “illegal,” might as well support pedo relationships with teens.
Edited: I wonder if this chick think 16 is STILL okay to date a pedo, I mean, a dude who is 30 plus, because in their state, 16 is “illegal” for “consent,” which I highly disagree with, so this chick thinks it’s okay!?!? If so, then I wouldn’t come to her with answers.
Recently I went on a social news network thread to ask women a question. I asked women on why do they think men put down women for being single. I then proceeded and say that men like to tell women that "They will be single forever", "They will d i e alone", "This is why you have no man" and "This is why you have no husband". I then did some research and studies on marriage and here’s what I got. Both men and women benefit from marriage, but men benefit from it more than women. The reason why men benefit from marriage more is because married men live longer, they make more money, they have better health and more. Also, research and studies say that married men with children are happier than single men and married men live longer than single men. On the flip side, research and studies says that single unmarried women without children are happier and live longer than married women who have children. So, in conclusion, married men are the happiest and single women without children are the happiest. There was an article by Psychology Today by Greg Matos, and he wrote an article titled “What’s Behind the Rise of Single Lonely, Men”. He said in the article that in reality, you don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy, but men are typically happier and healthier when they are partnered. On the Reddit thread, some of the replies said that the reason why men shame single unmarried women without children is really projection. Men are the ones who really don’t want to be single, and they don’t want to d i e alone so they project those fears towards women.
That makes so much sense
So much to it. A social construct and it gets romanticized for girls starting out with fairytales. I finally watched bridgerton last month (the girls didn’t have a clue) & saw FD signifier’s video essay on why father’s aren’t in the home which hit on the functionalism behind marriage for me. I remember my professor showing the inverse relationship between happiness with marriage between husbands and wives and around that time started to see some of the wedding/marriage culture in my peers
I have heard about those studies. The reason married men live longer is because they have wives who remind them that they have to go to the doctor and such. Single men won't think of such things on their own. On the flip side single women will remember to take care of their health, while married women will take care of everybody else ahead of themselves.
I agree I read those statistics as well, I am much happier single in a relationship a man is always trying to emotionally manipulate me and to disregard my feelings it’s a lot of work …life is much easier for me this way I do not want to be single for ever as I am in my 30’s but I am excellent with where I am at mentally,emotionally and financially
i remember reading about that study, i believe it also said that women who married younger men lived as long as single women
I know shes a white woman, but the Brooke Shield's documentary on HULU really highlights the bad currency of beauty. The exploration she experienced was sickening!
Yeah, the crap she went through was so awful
I wonder though, can it be fully attributed to beauty though? Coz ‘unattractive’ women go through similar, if not worse. To where they aren’t believed when they give testimony.
*exploitation* she experienced
@@mergerogue4291 the only difference I can think of in brooks case is that they obsess over you for your beauty but tear you down just as obsessively
@@mergerogue4291 i agree, at the same time tho, if she wasnt so "beautiful" and wasnt able to be a child star to the same extent, would she have experienced the same exploitation? Probably not to the same extent as she did
I'm of the opinion that each consenting-adult should date whomever (consenting-adult) they want to. However I do believe there is wisdom in age, and sometimes you only realize the 'exploitative' aspect of the relationship once you're 'out of it'
This ☝🏿
Well said
I am 37 and I have barely realized in the past few years how much my exes used my trauma to get off. My ex husband was significantly older than me and we met when I was 24. Most of my relationships were with older men because of my trauma. I was so messed up by that point that I had no idea what was happening to me. I "consented" and didn't realize for a decade how f'ed it really was until I had a lot of therapy. He even made jokes about how he wanted them to only fix the parts of me that bothered him, not the stuff he liked despite the fact that it was like cutting to me. I still struggle with my trauma and involving myself with some of that because PTSD is pervasive and no matter what you do it's always lurking in the corner. These people will exploit your trauma and situation and they know exactly what they are doing. There's always exceptions to the rule, but 99% of these relationships are horrible in ways that are you can't understand until you get help and have some distance from the situation.
agreed, 100% been through it too
I think many women know this through experience and that's why they take issue with these kinds of relationships because they've been there and ultimately know the damage that some of these relationships can cause. Sending you love, forgive yourself you didnt know better then.
I find diddy having horrendous allegations against him the concerning part not caresha publicly dating him.
Exactly
Yeah
That part!
Because of the allegations, it's concerning that she is dating him.
Off topic:
You're glowing and looking absolutely gorgeous
I Agree
I agree
I think the solution is education. Consenting adults should be able to engage in relationships. Just let the young girlies know that to keep any of the wealth, they need the promises notorized.
I think the uneven power dynamics also appears in gay male relationships.
Large age gaps are common in many cultures, especially with men being older (speaking of heterosexual relationships). I usually give a side eye when one of the persons in the relationship is younger than 30 due to possible power imbalances, but by ~30+ I don’t side eye age gaps in most cases. Overall, each situation is different, and as you said, not black and white. For example, I know a couple where the wife was mid 20s and husband was late 40s at their time of marriage (20+ age gap) and their love seemed genuine and not predatory. 15 years later they’re still happily married.
As far as the 80+ year olds, their relationships don’t bother me but them still having kids is unethical.
Look at the cultures in which they're normalized. They all have something in common. And none of them are positive!
Y'know honestly, hearing the married women in my life I'm always wondering 'do you even want sex', 'are you ok'? I hope it never gets like that for me 😖
What's been quite shocking to me is that the people talking about these grown women as if they're children seemingly don't realize how misogynistic it is to presume that grown women aren't capable of making decisions for themselves like that's sexism 101, baby!
I don't care what _adults_ do in the privacy of their bedrooms as long as no one gets hurt - everyone chooses it, and the relationship was based on transparency. As soon as a minor is involved, someone is abused or lied to or used or bought... it's a problem. But we've done a piss-poor job protecting ACTUAL CHILDREN (like from the RCC) to be all up in arms about 20+ year olds choosing people who are older. Even if they're doing it for money or clout or security. As long as the older person doesn't care, IMHO, it's none of our business.
"As long as the older person doesn't care". You've got it all so backwards
@@brooklyndecember or, I have it right. If a younger person decides to use an older person for money, I don't care if they don't. It sucks if a younger person feels they have no other options - a job, family, etc, but that wasn't what this video is about. If you want to talk reforming culture/economics/capitalism and giving everyone free college, then I'm all there for that. But some young people are still going to want to pursue wealth through relationships and marriage and I'm not their mama to tell them no.
I think the issue of Paternalism is a complicated one when talking about oppression and is something that is delicately balanced. So, do people know they are oppressed without being taught they are oppressed? The answer is yes and no as folks who are oppressed often side against themselves and work toward their own oppression. So, when talking about age gaps and power dynamics, saying well they are making clear decisions and consent the question becomes well are they oppressed and don't know it? That issue shows up in class relations all the time when people who would MOST benefit from unions oppose unions. This is where the balance of paternalism and oppression conversations struggle and head butt each other.
When i think about how beauty is a bad investment, I always think about Kanye West hopping up the conventionally attractive hierarchy, aka ds-bw, ls-bw, mediterranean-ww, ww.
There always is a next best thing. Young women should move with that fact in mind and plan accordingly.
I’m really interested in your take! Can you tell me what you mean? Is it a good or bad investment? 😊
@@Youokhun It can be a "good" investment, if young women have the forsight to prepare for their life after the relationship ends. If they use their partner's ressources and access as a springboard for better opportunities, build themselves a nest egg, have a good exit strategy, etc.
Otherwise, not so much: dating older wealthier powerful cishet men isnt for the faint of heart.
I've had to reflect on this recently too. I said something to my partner about 9 years being a lot, and he was like umm what are you saying about my parents then? because his mum is 10 years older than his dad and they had a lovely marriage (they aren't broken up, his dad passed away; I know, who would have thought the one 10 years younger would go first). when they got married, he was 25 and she was 35 and they had two kids and were a pretty happy family. like it seems like his dad had full agency and was not exploited in any way by this secretary he met while making a delivery so I have to rethink some things about age gaps.
You look very beautiful Kim. Your skin, hair, nails, background, and everything else is so esthetically pleasing.
Thanks for streaming! Im a 30 year old gay man, and when i was 19 i got with a 31 year old man. It was my first relationship, and i didnt know until years later that he was a sexual predator. He was a band tracher and was caught with one of his students. When you add the fact that i looked 13 when i was 19 it all starts to make sense. He was the most controlling person ever. One night my best friend and i we were hanging out at his(predators) house, and i suddenly started to feel sick. I allowed my friend to use my phone for watching netflix, and went to lie down. Shortly after i went to lie down he took my phone from my friend and went into the bathroom. He knew my friend would tell me, right? I ended up having enough of his shit, and i ended up punching him in the face for reasons i dont feel the need to justify. This is an example of an exploititive relationship. I was naive and foolish. I wasnt old enough to unserstand i was being preyed upon.
When i was 25 i got with my current partner who was 41 at the time. Ive never been happier. The amount of growing up you do from 19-25 is huge. Looking back at my previous relationship makes me sick. Just knowing that i was being used.
So, I only have my personal experience to look back on, but in my opinion 18-23 shouldnt be dating someone 10+ years older than them. Its so easy to control someone when theyre so much younger, and in love with you.
Like i said; just my personal experience.
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? Like a college senior dating a college freshman? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and like a girl in college who is in 1st year of college so she is either 18 about to turn 19 soon or is already 19 now so we are only like 3 years apart in age. We chat on Instagram daily and we do get along well and don't see any maturity gap so far and can relate to each other as we are both college age so would it be fine to ask her out?
I get that is your experience but at 19 in college, I dated a 32 year old and it was hands down my best dating experience. The options for us as gay men are already small but we met at a club and were both musicians and connected over that as friends first than began dating months later. We each had clear boundaries from the start and genuinely enjoyed each other’s conversations and company. I also felt inspired by seeing a gay man living a good life and thriving when there weren’t many examples of it in the media at the time. And I had someone to talk to who had been through the some of the stuff I was struggling with and had nobody to really understand before then. I also had the safety of not worrying about sneaking around and stuff because he had a career and a car. If someone is a predator or criminal, no matter their age they will use violence and manipulation against you. But someone simply being older is not a sign of a predator. Being predatory is. Individuals as adults should be able to decide what they are comfortable with as a partner. And at 19, I was paying thousands of dollars for school AND working, so I was not a child 🤷🏾♂️
I'm surprised you didn't address Mary K Letourneau. She was a married parent and a teacher who pursued her underage male student and ultimately left her family to marry and have children with her student. She was relentlessly predatory about that boy child.
There is a student teacher couple that had a kid... Just ran across a story with them... They still together.. I was like wow
@@-Epiphany That's them. She really groomed him. He never had a chance to interact with girls his own age.
@@MK-hh1voThats not her because Mary Letourneau died 3 years ago from cancer. But its true that while she was married with four kids she fell in love with a 12 year old child who she groomed.
@@alicegauteng2358 Thx for the correction!
Also, it can't hurt to mention that she was white and the boy child was Asian. I wonder how things would have played out if the ethnicities were reversed.
“Equal exchange ain’t no robbery”. 🤔🤭
There's always some level of inequality and codependence in any relationship--that's what a relationship is. It's just a matter of managing it, knowing your boundaries, what you're willing to compromise, etc.
Psychology says that you can be 25 and still behave younger due to trauma. Trauma can stunt your psychological growth. This needs to be considered. And as feminists we know that there is racial, gender and other traumas due to chronic stress. So some of these women can have traumas that make their relationship choices bordeline unethical to unethical. Idk about illegal after 25 but there's something there. There's a reason we don't like it, and I say trust your gut specially to women.
Lawd. You broke that all the way down! As usual, a well thought out thesis.
Careesha and Noor are both 29 while Diddy and Pacino are 53 and 83 respectively, so while they are all above 25, I can see why there are people going ick over seeing those pairings. Robert DeNiro and tiffany, on the other hand, while there is a huge age gap between them (79 and 45), while there are some people going ick over their age gap, I don't think their age gap is the main reason that couple is getting backlash because there are plenty of white women her age that date and marry men significantly older than them and no one is complaining about that. I think that couple is getting backlash is simply because Tiffany is an older non-mixed Asian woman (East Asian in her case; likely divorced as well) that is in a relationship with a non-Asian man.
There are plenty of predatory relationships that get little to no outrage; only a few getting a lot of outrage. Billie Eillish and that 31 year old she was with. Courtney Strodden being married at 16 to some 51 year old guy. JewWario grooming one of his young female staff members when she was 18 (one of the incidents mentioned in the Channel Awesome controversy). Woody Allen grooming and marrying his ex-wife's adopted daughter. Celine Dion's marriage to a man that groomed her when she was young. Leonardo DiCaprio constantly dating young women and dumping them when they turn 24-25. Drake having a "special" relationship with one of the Stranger Things female stars. Demi Lovato and Wilmer Valderrama's relationship. Taylor Swift and John Mayer's relationships. That white female teacher that groomed one of her male Asian students and then married him. Numerous stories of male Christian and Mormon pastors, priests, and influencers getting caught harming children and grooming girls and young women. The marriage between Lauren Boebert and her husband. The relationship between Tohru Honda's parents (the Furuba/Fruits Basket fans were not happy about that). Cardcaptors Sakura having two student-teacher relationships featuring a male teacher and a female student; one of those relationships being Sakura's parents. Kuchi ga Saketemo Kimi ni wa having a couple met when the wife was the teenage daughter of a rich man and the husband was a police officer. The story of how Ichigo's parents met (in Bleach). Older cis straight men going to East Europe and non-white countries to prey on teenage girls and young women. Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis's marriage is creepy when you remember that Mila was the only actual teenager in the cast when she was on That 70's show. Brooke Shields and how she was exploited by older men. Bill Cosby and his long history of abusing women. R Kelly and his long history of preying on teenage girls. One of Doug Ford's opponents being revealed to be a creep and groomer of teenage girls (yet he almost won since so many white people voted for him). Donald Trump sexually harassing the Miss America pagent contestants. Ned Fulmer hiring Alex when she was a young impressionable fan of the Try Guys on Buzzfeed; then continued his affair with her when Try Guys left Buzzfeed to create their own company. Jay-z and Beyonce when you realize that Beyonce dated Jay-Z when she was 19 and Jay-Z was in his 30s. What happened to Aliayah and the man she got groomed by. The relationship between tyga and kylie jenner.
Subjective: Mr. Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman constantly dating young women and dumping them when they mature and become too old for him. Disney has a good chunk of stories in shows and movies where the female characters is a teenager to young adult in a relationship with a man that is older than them and 21+; one example being Rapunzel and Eugene where Rapunzel is 18 while Eugene is 25. Gauken Babysitters featured a mom that met her ex-husband when she was a student and he was a teacher ... then later on had a terrible rocky marriage to the point that they got a divorce and never want to get back together.
that twitter rant just symbolized the attitude of "trial by vibes" - "i don't like it. it gives me the ick. let's make it illegal"....which is not how shit works.
Very timely considering the Phillip Schofield situation here in the UK.
With Diddy having an history of dating women very young/ barely legal. The mother of his first son was in highschool while he was in his late 20s, how old was Cassie when he've got with her ? Even if Kim was off age we saw that he had with her the same toxic power dynamic he had in relationship with the younger women. I think it is more that people are dissecting him and Caresha's relationship through this lense. This is why I wouldn't put this relationship as an equivalent of Pacino's, Dinero,...
Hmmm that was ominous…
That Celine Dion marriage is weird weird weird. I didn't know about Seinfeld but 17 is 🤢
J&B 😫
I Agree
Absolutely
I haven't really gotten into the video, but I do think it's worth a conversation on how a lot of us continue to normalize large age gaps because it's either reflective in our own parental figures or the expressed advice of older women in our families. Dating older has always been presented as a catch all by older women: he will be more financially stable, he will treat you better and play less mind games. Those things are simply not true and as we have men boldly on the internet proclaiming that 30 is too old and there is a another girl turning 18 everyday easier to manipulate and mold, I appreciate these conversations and its nuances. Caresha and Diddy don't make me bat an eye becauae Caresha is hella grown in my opinion, but I do think the sexually driven infantalization on young women and over sexualization of ten girls (15 -19, think Britney Spears' Rolling Stones cover) has some very dark roots in our previous social accessibility and should be further explored. Remember, having a period was considered adult and most of us have the first much older man approach us at age 12 (in my and my peers lived experience/anecdotal). I mean Woman are thought to be too old outside of their 20s and we see a lot of Public examples of men leaving their already younger wives for younger ones and although 45 and 70 are just two adults going about their business, what does the prevalence of such relationships signal to the average young girl that grows up with messages about being picked and not dying alone. I guess it's to say that it's not just the gap, but the age of the younger person in combination with the gap that needs to be explored.
My bad if I am completely off base with the video.
Edit: Sooo... I am 13 minutes in and I am completely off base 😂. These are all older😂 women. I was thinking about Marcus Houston and his wife (I saw his interview🤦🏾♀️) or Wilmer and Demi.
Edit 2: Okay, 18 minutes in and I have decided I need to fully watch the video.
I enjoyed the commentary from the Patreon. Looking forward to more in the future ❤
You and Professor Karen Hunter should do a collab. Love you both to bits.
Honestly, i dont think 18 is old enough to consent to sex or a relationship with anyone over the age of like, 20, and the fact that legally its 18 or younger in most states, makes the whole conversation different. I am dating someone 16 years older than me, however, my pre frontal cortex is finished forming, our relationship is great.
When I was 18, i was dating a 24 year old, and that relationship was rife with abuse. Maturity is a funny thing, a 26 year old can be more mature than a 50 year old, but there are ABSOLUTELY ZERO mature 18 year olds. Am i making sense?? At 18 I was no match for even a slightly older guy, at 26 I am confident enough to make my own decisions on who I am compatible with. I have found men within the assumed to be socially respectable age gap, are often extremely immature. I am definitely not one of those people who "prefers" to date older men. Maturity is certainly a spectrum, and anyone at any age can be immature. Problem is, 18, 19 year olds are EXPECTED to be immature because theres nothing else they CAN be. A 40 year old doesn't have a reason or excuse, and immature grown ass people 100% need to stay away from very young people. Problem is.. ... They dont do that.
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? Like a college senior dating a college freshman? Yeah 18 and 22 might be strange if the 18 year old is still in high school but is it still bad if both are in college? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and like a girl in college who is in 1st year of college so she is either 18 about to turn 19 soon or is already 19 now so we are only like 3 years apart in age. We chat on Instagram daily and we do get along well and don't see any maturity gap so far and can relate to each other as we are both college age.
@Manosij Roy I think that's fine as you guys are in the same life arena. The predatory nature of age gap relationships in my opinion is not just the biological age , but also which stage of life you are in. Often times the older person has so much live experience which can be weaponised towards the younger person, but because you guys are going through college together , I don't think it's too bad .
I commented earlier that 18 isn't an arbitrarily number. In a time when child brides were societal norm feminists pushed to have the od consent to 21. Men in power were up in arms! For many reasons 18 was a Hugh as they would compromise. Some states still have 13-15 on the books.
I don’t think we should limit pedophilia to “legal” age when even after age 18, you are still a TEENAGER
"You HAVE to make your own money..."
"You're right. ..it's a good life!"
Fucking ICONIC 😁
Anna Nicole walked so Ashley Darby could run
On the subject of strategic maneuvers, the example of Ashley Darby on housewives of Potomac is a great one to explore
I don’t like age gap relationships I think they are inherently predatory when one of the partners in late teens early twenties. Comparing to pedophillia is over the top but it’s not right either
We can still marry children in states 12-17 year old kids and that generates less social media outrage and I wonder if that’s the celebrity driven culture or if it’s so performative moral outrage that everyone knows this and picks to drag these women in the public eye.
I read somewhere that the actor Paul Walker dated teenagers?
I saw that too
He did
I’m just trying understand the lack of I’d like to be alive for my daughter being not just a young kid.
your brilliance is endless
Why is it yuck when a woman gets pregnant by a younger man. But not when a 29 year old gets pregnant by an 83 year old. Old aint sexy. Im sure ol girl was atleast attracted to the younger man. An 83 year old probably wont live long enough to see that kid graduate jr.high. The young guy will probably live long enough to watch his kid be a grandparent.
As I reiterated over and over again, grown people need to leave people under 25 alone. And he was 22 when she got pregnant.
Much needed convo
Indeed. 🧐🍿☕
I am sorry but when I see the Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro situation i just see two women securing their bags. They are all in on a financial/legacy transaction.
There are women out there who are deliberately looking for sugar daddies. These men are older than them, but they are in transactional relationships where the women are looking for status and power, while the women are looking for youth and beauty. Its a win/win on both sides.
I want no 18-25 year old to experience what I have but that’s not realistic it’s going to happen and I love this post is an example of what would’ve been helpful for me at that age.
Also people should not avoid the rumor/fact that the guy who died in Fast in Furious was also dating a teen
The second caller gave the example of the football player, when I read the story it was that his boyfriend messaged him when he was 18. That’s seems a bit icky to me
Kim loves every part of work except figuring out the tech at the beginning lol
Why do activists/feminists/social justice folk spend so much time on ultra high net worth “rich and famous” celebrities and not the politics of everyday folk?
I, literally, address this is in the video.
Status envy. They are dysgenic and mad.
Doesn't fit the narrative they want to spin...they forget that it's such a small group of people
The thing is caresha is going to go to the notary so I wish her the best of luck
This brings me back to the passport bros discussion. Western women(feminists) framed women from Asia, Africa etc as if they don’t have agency (child like, naive) in these passport bro situations. As an African myself the child like depiction western feminist were making about us made me 🤮. Sure there is power dynamic between men from western countries with money and poorer women from less developed countries, but most us are aware and just trying to get into our passport privilege bag.
Like western feminist are capable of understanding hypergamy but when they see women from less developing countries doing it they cannot comprehend it. That alone says everything about how aligned western feminism and white supremacy are .
Good for me but not for thee. Pretty much sums them up.
Absolutely true 🙌🏽 let’s keep calling out the real weirdo behavior instead of the easy call out against women using their sexuality for advancement and men allowing it by funding these women’s lifestyles basically, to an extent ofc because as mentioned there are risks.
This is such an interesting topic to me as my mom was 16 years younger than my dad but met him at 28. But I agree this topic has so many nuances. At first I was all for Caresha and Diddy but after the baby and all the publicly embarrassing things that have happened I just can’t support. But she’s getting her bag or whatever 😅 another situation where the male was way younger than the guy is Cher dating Amber Rose’s baby father. Random but that’s Hollywood for ya.
45 and 79… Honestly, she may be in a position to take advantage of him, her brain is running peak performance, while his is on the decline. As for Caresha and Puffy, a fair exchange ain’t a robbery 🤷🏽♀️ The woman is 30 years old for all intents and purposes…she’s not a child, nor is she naive or inexperienced in the ways of life. I feel that if you’re five years out from your frontal lobe being fully developed, you should be able to date as far up as you feel comfortable.
Insightful as always. I saw this live on Twitter and LOL'd. Claiming one's a victim of p*d* at the big ol' age of 30+ is A LOT!
I'm a late millenial ('93) and I've always been interested in men older than me, whether it's a few years or several years. Never was coerced to do it. Growing up as an only child, I'm used to talking to older folks more and feel more comfortable. The power struggle is much more nuanced. Long as both parties consent and there's no inclination of harm, mind the business that is your own.
Like the problem is mainly misogyny. Idk why we can't just say that. Men wanting to date 20+ years their junior is about how society doesn't value age and experience in women. We can have that discussion without making everyone into a pedo despite dating a grown ass woman that could never be mistaken for a teenager.
What's more supportive to be a patron or pop up on UA-cam membership ?
They are the women who have to be with them in their day and that is not what I want any younger woman with life ahead dealing with but women who have thought this out made the choice that works for them. They have a comfortable life hopefully and actual love.
Looking dewy and glowy
Yup! 😍
I just think of these relationships as sex workers with 1 client. I'm pro sex workers. I just hope these people are as smart as traditional sex workers and stack cash, not just designer goods. And don't get confused about the truth of the relationship - even if there's true love there.
That’s a soulless way to live. “Think of ur relationship as sex work” Umm that’s ducking horrible advice get some help.
Excitement hearing dive into the nuances yayyy cuz I get triggered and I know there’s nuance outside my anger at men. Cuz I’ve 31 and boy is it a different universe mentally than 18-25. But the men get a glare from me.
I was literally writing a comment on how do we expect to be treated as fully fleshed out human beings on both sides of these situations if we contunue to lean into treating each other as things to bought/traded, when you said theres no solutions lol.
But also yes, abolish heterosexuality as a societal structure lmao cuz y'all are not okay 😂
Everybody who knew me at 18 sees me still as a baby not even just a teen anymore but because I grew even more so they are like omg you little kid now ur like a little adult. Wtf disgusting
This country decided 18 year olds were adults in 1920.
I understand wanting to give people space to To say I might be dating this person who is far older than me. But I know exactly what i'm doing. Like I understand the wants to not be paternalistic but when people Dating decisions that I think are bad and it ends up not working out for them Part of me feels like "I knew it's right" and that's a terrible feeling to have
My question is - where are these old men’s (and women’s) adult children? Someone get their daddy! Gift them vasectomies at 50! 40! This is nonsense. Protect your parents & their generational wealth. Question yourself as a parent - are you raising your child right if bagging a baby with a nearly dead old man is their only economic option? There’s no consideration for the child/ren made in this relationship or their relationship with his children or grandchildren. 🫤
The crazy part is that Pacinos baby mama is from a super rich family, her daddy is an arab prince or something and she has been datinig ONLY order men. Personally I find it weird but hey….
I don’t know if I can fully appreciate the strategic situation between Careesha and Diddy. If by appreciate, we’re referring to the fact that she gets gifts and money and other luxuries then …I guess. Aye, as long as she doesn’t get pregnant…live it up 😂
Also, if he really does love you and care for you, he’ll wait for you to be a viable option.
I so badly wissshhhh I coulda chatted in I would’ve been so good for this as a 21 yo exotic dancer who just had an argument with my older sister about the equal exchange that’s happening and specifically at sur Beverly Hills over brunch since she’s a rhw fan LOL. my week has been so based on the consumer vs producer
Also surrounding different morals ways of living, and she seemed to see me as being deprived of my mind body and soul I went out on a date w an older man regular too, French, and he was trying to tell me it’s not a forever career choice and it can b toxic not only for me but for men as well which is tru, but consensual and everything is toxic to someone contextually and luckily it’s not my forever choice, although I know 21 is a little to young to know everything I will and won’t accept I been around enough to notice what beauty does for and to someone in every aspect of life , for myself , my mom , and my Dads conquests, ofc I know it usually tends to go wrong when ur capitalizing but have no capital of ur own , when u put all ur eggs in one basket and forget about keeping some for u and growing them WHILE u have the chance *
As a dancer u want to do the finessing not the other waynworund and everything is on the table not sneakily or quite as manipulatively in a way, that’s y I decided to make capital off of it thank u so much for materializing thoughts I forget others can see sometimes and feel as well, ppl have forgotten so much ab nuances I really lose hope for anyone caring enough to learn deeper (as Taylor swift cardigan and Lana deal Rey young and beautiful play from my neighbors window )
An equal exchange is not a robbery was beautifully put
U think I’m not gonna use that power dynamic and ppl thinking they can manipulate me to my advantage 😂
That’s not a predator that’s a opportunity and perfectly put if ur emotionally stable on ur own ur gonna navigate with clear head
I think the women would find it being illegal like F off you are messing up my bag… I mean life.
If relationships start after the younger person is 25 yr old+, no one including me cares. It is what it is. 18 - 25 yr old is a grey area. Gaps between someone's intelligence, sentience, streets smarts, and physical health make the consent within a myriad of contexts very difficult to define in this area. Not everyone wants the cookie cutter relationship everyone else has. The way modern society seems to be it seems like this period is about discovering who you are and what you want. So a committed relationship at this age is what is frowned on. Ages puberty (8 to 18) is slightly easier to define only because of where they go to school. There are some girls in this range who will be taller and more physically developed with secondary sex characteristics than I ever will be at any point of my whole life.
1:04:22 I said OOP! 💀💀💀💀
Just wanna clarify that the second guy (who was very fucking cute) misread the age of the young soccer player. The soccer player he’s referring to came out at 17 and the man he’s now dating who is in his late 40’s messaged him immediately after he came out. That is definitely predatory.
Yeah after 25 to about 28 I’d consider that grown and that after that I’d just side eye power dynamics w. Huge age gaps that’s abusive but other than that no issue. And I’d say 25-28 you have enough life experience to hopefully make wise decisions.
Is 19 and 22 fine for dating? I am a 22 year old guy who is in last year of college and I like a girl in my college who is in 1st year of college and she is 19 now so we are only 3 years apart. Will it be fine to ask her out?
@@manosijroy8282 you're both adults dude...
maybe ending capitalism is a much easier solution that ending heterosexuality😄
I think the difference is the age of the women and not the age gap. A 45 year old woman, a 29 year old woman vs an 18 year old or 21 year old. Monetary success of these women also plays a huge part in this. The age gap really isn't much of an issue. Its the age of the younger individual. Its the difference in financial status
Is it fine for a 22 year old to date an 18/19 year old if both are in college? I am a 22 year old guy in last year of college and I like a girl in my college who is in 1st year and she is 19 now so we are only 3 years apart in age and I wanna ask her out.
@@manosijroy8282 I think it's completely fine
Look, yeah age exploitation is a thing. And for adult humans is can be tricky to pin down. As an alternate perspective, I've had a 14+ years older partner for a decade. There have absolutely been power struggles. End of day my priority was securing mine and as such, I can make my own decisions without being beholden to my person. This was not at all true when I was married to someone near my age.
the guest speakers confirmed my suspicions. the gays LOVE Kim. Thought I was among few and far between
I think its using on both ways.. 19 or 20 or 30 year old dating someone significantly older please believe there is a financial benefit going on in exchange for being in the relationship. Its life and people need to chill.. at 19 I may have been immature about many things but getting money was not one of them . I know women who have had their life trajectory changed for the better by dating an older man and are now married to someone closer to their age .. and the wealth they were able to build during being with the old man was crazy
Its an old rule but: half your age plus seven. Captures the reality that its not so much about the numerical gap but the stage in life you are in.
How interesting that all this moral indignance over "age gap" relationships and "power dynamics" is starting to really trend in the last couple years, now that millennial women are starting to reach their mid 30s (the exact age where romance starts getting a lot harder for women). I'm sure that's just a weird coincidence. Yup, I'm sure they ALWAYS had a moral objection with age gap relationships, they just randomly started expressing in now in their mid 30s, and for purely compassionate and non-self-serving reasons. /s
Looks like somone has never heard about the 60 40 phenomenon
In my opinion the Cougar has been placed on a pedastal like a super 🦹♀️ hero while the guy is always seen as a dirty 🧔🏾♂️ old man.
The cougar is only celebrated of she still looks young and has wealth.
There are a lot of gay/lesbian couples with age gaps too, is not about sexual orientation
The only thing that makes it less of a problem from a heterosexual perspective is that being with the same sex would eliminate a sexism power struggle.
@@Christina10J the power struggle is for the age gap
Diddy is with a woman to run 🏃♂️ from allegations...
I am confused because it seems like you contradicted a lot of what you said in the "city girls feminism is embarrassing" video
It is extremely embarrassing to crash out over a man when you’ve opted into this kind of arrangement. That’s why I said making your own money is still undefeated.
Heterosexuality doesnt have to mean exploiting each other for beauty vs money/material things. Thats the patriarchal definition of heterosexuality. There are many healthy and ethical heterosexual relationships. If anybody got some credible resources, im all ears.
Tbh I think there also needs to be a conversation about frail old men being taken advantage of bc elder abuse I don’t think is talked about enough but just adds a layer of nuance
Why is beauty labelled "a tool" ? Can beauty just be...beauty? I don't see it as an investment because all women are subject to the consequences of patriarchy regardless of their beauty status. Beauty doesnt really have a tangible privilege imho
It does have some tangible privilege tho... I read somewhere that people that a large number of other people found attractive tend to make more money / treated better
Hmm, I think people need to stay worried about folks who are children and young adults. Nobody 80 years old needs to be dating a 19 year old, but once a person is 25 or older and that adult brain has kicked in folks need to mind their business unless their is clear indications of some sort of abuse. 🤷🏽♀️
People must e forgotten/don't know about Casey Casem
Who 🤔🤔??
@@thatimokoena8357 He used to host American top 40 on the radio decades ago and he was the original voice of Shaggy in the Scooby Doo cartoon
i prefer women 18 to 24 years old for love.
always have, the only woman over 30 i like is the ones i been dating since she was 18 years old.
Caresha is not world famous lol
Don't you believe City Girls are known outside of the United States? I see Brits quoting them every day.
@@ForHarriet619 true I’m from the uk can vouch, but world famous internationally famous ???? Like Michael Jackson, Abba, Beyoncé ….. yh idk about that
@@anisah8807 I didn't compare Caresha to Beyoncé. You just confirmed that she is known outside of her country of origin.
@@ForHarriet619 again we are talking about using the term ‘world famous’ oh well
Older men have always liked younger women. It was just something that I seen growing up and my dad warned me about. My parents are only one year apart but a lot of the kids parents I went to school with their mom is 40 years old and their dad is almost touching 60 I think age gaps are fine after the person is 25 I think by that time you have enough life experience, and you at least are fully grown
I will say there's an important difference between being sexually attracted to and wanting to have sex with. As a grown man, sure sometimes I will see a 19yr old and think "hot body" or whatever, but I never see a 19yr old and think "I want that person to be my lover" because there's (or should be) a lot more to "is sex a good idea emotionally and morally" than "are they hot".
Age gap = yawn
Love is lacking in the world so adults ..
Love who u want
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
My rule of thumb is if everyone is above 25, I don't see any problem.
I can respect that... Personally for me it's 20
Now hear me out!🙆🏾♀️if money to men is beauty/youth to women= our gendered social currencies
When we act shocked because men are flashing their money, and theyre upset that they are desired for the funds is it not the same as women being told to cover up if they don’t want the (sub: negative) attention from men? 1:08:26
Its really a half baked thought but I’d love any opinions. I’d also like to note that the men that are flashing the money are probably different from the women being told this. So yea🫣
Kat blaque did a great video on how to give advice when needed but at the time ur not hearing anything but what this toxic mentality is saying
You are on they ahhhhhh
They get to have children in the nicest of hospitals and hopefully their husbands live a long life