7 Shops Later...Biggest Parts Cannon FAIL of 2021!! (Chevy Truck Misfires - Part 1)
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- Опубліковано 29 гру 2021
- Where do we begin?
This poor 2001 GMC Sierra V8 has been running like dog poo for over a year. Shop owner says that under load Bank 1 cylinders start misfiring and dropping out to the point where the truck is barely drivable!
It has been to 7 SHOPS, and each shop has apparently replaced some parts and sent the customer down the road... the last guy told the customer that it "needs a wiring harness" xD
Apparently it is UNFIXABLE!
Let's start the diagnosis from scratch and see how badly the Parts Cannon FAILED on this truck...
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Happy New Year!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
parts cannon, sounds more like a 155 mm parts howitzer LoL. another excellent video thanks Ivan !
It reminds me the 8 inch howitzer
Yeah - one of those 155's the yanks had in Germany to lob nuclear tipped artillery shells into the Fulda gap. 😆
More like a parts A-Bomb.
Omg!! I live in Ithaca! Next time you’re here, would love to take you to lunch!! You’re work is awesome!
Too bad the original parts are long gone. I'd put the old "crap" back and start over again.
A lot of bad parts are being distributed to Auto Parts Stores. This is what a lot of us are dealing with. I just say a small prayer now hoping that my replacement (Non Factory) part will endure past the Warranty period. I just replaced the coils and spark plugs in a 4.6L Ford motor last month and the customer said the vehicle was running rough. I diagnosed the #7 coil as bad and replaced it. Ran fine. The coil was at fault with less than 2,000 miles on it. This is not the first one either. A 4.6L cannot handle a single cylinder misfire to well at all. I explain to customers that if you go cheap you can pay in the long run. Some listen Some don't.
I had a similar issue with new aftermarket coil on my f150 truck 3.7l but it was coil #6. Happened going up a long steep hill in NY on Oct.
I was surprised since it worked on a trip from NY to NC with a car on trailer then back to NY without the car just trailer.
Atleast I kept the original Ford ones. I switched it out now I keep a old original in the truck.
I agree. The cat could be plugged
But I’d be checking those replacement coils on those cylinders aftermarket crap.
Seen to many crap out under load.
Looking forward to your find!!
Might want to make sure the gaps are right. Just looking at the plugs should tell you what is working. What bad parts can cause rich running? Listed in #2 video.
I can't believe they have not replaced the ECM yet. Usually, people have put several on those on at this stage. 🤣🤣
I diagnosed my car and came to the conclusion it was the exam. I told my wife to get napa to change ecm and program it. They told her they needed to diagnose themselves and it ended up costing double. It was ecm like I thought.
@@mordosamsonite5833 I've been told ECM's seldom go bad. I just replaced mine.
in the older days of TBI injection setups, the computers very often went south, and many times due to bad injector/s cooking the drivers. ( pre-obd2).
of course then you went to any junkyard, pulled one from similar car/matching main ECM number and just swapped the chips over to transfer the correct calibration over.
showing my age again I guess 🤪
i admire the mindset of IVAN
and when i am troubleshooting
i get my extra energy from him
Do any of these people who get ripped off by shop's who just throw parts, and don't diagnose the problem ever get their money back??? I fix all my own vehicle's, because I don't trust anyone to do an oil change right. My dad passed away last year, and I ended up with his truck. I went to do an oil change, and they were to lazy to put the right filter on, and put a smaller filter on. I have an 05 ranger with the 3.0, and the filter isn't that easy to get to, and it has this funnel to keep the oil from dripping onto the starter. The truck had left a leak spot only after driving, so i figured it was the filter, which was not even close to hand tight. I had a guy flag me down from an oil change place, and he showed me his dipstick that had no oil on it, and he was protesting the guy because the drain plug fell out, and locked his motor up, and he had it towed to the lube shop to make them take care of it, but they had already closed for the day. The guy went down the road with his phone, recording all the oil leaking it did. I have known two other people with the plug falling out. Part cannon city, along with junk parts from china, and then your car is still broke, crazy. Thanks for all the great content. God bless.
Sitting here thinking selfishly, I wish he was my neighbor
What a joke, 7 shops. man we need to get this auto industry together.
I love Johnny Hates Jazz - shattered dreams! Great case study anxious for part 2
I repaired a NY Corvette many years ago with similar symptoms, by cleaning the corrosion off the ECM connector.
Ahhhh! You making my gears turn. Had a Suburban like that. I love me some Stabilant 22. Have a tube I bought close to 10 year ago. Stuff works.
Amazon says: Last purchased Oct 11, 2015.
Your videos have better cliffhangers than most drama programmes.
xD
I watch this channel to learn more about how to keep my 21 year old van on the road, but the big bonus in this channel is getting to see scenes from my much beloved and missed home state. Thanks for that. It made my day.
The difference between a technician vs a mechanic is the parts cannon vs diagnostic tools and diagnostic mindset.
I would say less about the diagnostic mindset and more about an in depth understanding of how the systems work beyond "suck squeeze bang blow".
Not that one is more important than the other, but it seems to be (more often than not) a lack of understanding of pretty rudimentary principles.
This is definitely an interesting one though.
@Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, what's the bet it's not one of the options you listed and turns out to be some weirdo problem with the intake manifold? ;)
What ever you charge for your service is likely not enough. Love the channel!
Unfortunately "Getting money back" from a slew of blunders is worse than dealing with your insurance company after a accident.
Especially now adays considering the world we live in
I watch your videos all the time and I love them . I find it all so fascinating and I've learned a lot . Thank you !
Ivan, you are amazing. As meticulous as you are, I hope you produce a digital record of your findings for purchase. This would be a very valuable tool for every mechanic in the country, world.
When the parts cannon doesn't fix it, the diagnostic mindset will.
I wouldn't bet on a new cat being restricted, but a muffler restriction may have been overlooked. Good to get back pressure out of the way though.
Muffler restriction(unless it's a true dual exhaust) would show on both banks.
I've had cats that were one-way flow,installed backwards,that did this.
I would bet on the cats .all these aftermarket makers are reproducing these parts cheap as they can. I'm a firm believer in OEM parts if the budget can afford
Exhaust restriction would show as a high upstream EGT.
@@Stoney3K Unfortunately EGT isn't something that's monitored by the engine management on these vehicles.
Thing is it's running rich AF, so while the cat may have been fine when it was put in... It could have been trashed by now with all the fuel being poured into it. Think about it, how would a muffler only be causing trouble on bank 1? Bank 1's cat however...
I think they loaded up the blunderbuss with all the parts they could find and shot it.
DAS BLIETZKRIEG!!
Many times I was the last tech that they called .there is nothing quite like following a string of parts changers . Diagnosis by replacement pays well one time but leaves a bad taste in the customers mouth .
Ivan, looks like you've found another one. Can't wait to see how this turns out. Thanks for Sharing!
I used to work at a used car yard, higher cylinder pressures require higher ignition voltage to jump the spark plug gap, which a fowled plug would undermine. Change the plugs.
If you load the engine just below the point of misfiring, you can get the plugs to clean themselves up sometimes
A blocked cat subdues the exhaust note, the exhaust note sounded pretty throaty in the garage
This higher ignition voltage required on high cylinder pressure might also cause the spark to jump somewhere outside the cylinder. I would test the coils and spark plug leads using Ivan's proven method of pointing a test light at it.,
Or shoot some water in the intake steam clean.
My money is on one original problem compounded by at least one new problem introduced by the parts cannon.
I think someone left the choke on.
Exactly what I started to say. Great minds think alike.
yep, cold weather coming, gotta clean, lube and adjust that choke and linkage.
That was great...I went to comment on the comment.....and then I see Watch Wes Work's handwriting.
Wes be nice😐
@@abilioarruda4619 ......it could happen.....
I love your "new" multi-part shows!
Hey Ivan. The O2 sensors were reading lower than bias (except for one I think I saw) because the heaters turn on KOEO which drops the voltage. It is a test that you can use to check for heater operation.
Yes excellent point! On this older model the heaters are not computer-controlled, so they are always on with the key on :)
Your approach to every single car is absolutely awesome.
Thanks 👍 for sharing your knowledge us
Part 2 bring it on!!!
Listen to that piston slap😂😂 Raaaa.....Raaaaaa
Great study! Cant wait for Part 2!
Quite an interesting case study Ivan!, can't wait to see the next part/s of the diagnosis. Throwing parts at the vehicle indeed throws off the diagnosis and starting from scratch is really the way to go. My bet is on a clogged portion of the exhaust system.. Cheers!
after the fact
Great vids Ivan. Have a happy New Year.
your skills amazes me as you have big headaches that you work through patiently!!
waiting for part 2 Ivan! Have a Happy New Year!
Where do the professionals turn to when they are stumped, IVAN at PHAD!!!
It's like house, but for cars. Magnificent!
The suspense is killing me
Can't wait for part 2 to find out the issue.
What are the odds that all the after market parts are working?
Bought the headlamp from your store as a little thank you gift for some friends and all are appreciative. Stay well
Yep. I've had brand new spark plugs not work. Chased a misfire for days because I ruled out a new part.
Detective Ivan is on the scene I have a feeling you will find the culprit(s). Thanks Ivan and have a Happy New Year.
Thanks Ivan, absolutely a great case study!
Being Ivan I would say spark plugs he always find the bad ones..
That's why it's on my logo haha
Another interesting issue! Ivan, I can't wait to see if your gut feeling is correct. Thanks for posting it.
Looking forward to part 2!!
Instead of a possible plugged cat,
I wonder if there was cast flashing
in those brand new looking headers
that could be plugging up the
Exhaust??? Looking forward to part 2 Ivan!!!!!
Looking forward to part 2 !
Its worth fixing these old trucks because they last forever unlike these newer ones that barely make it thru the warranty period. I love CHEVY and GMC trucks and vans.
you bet I still drive my 1991 GMC 1500
Its worth fixing old trucks solely due to the expense of new trucks. New truck dollars will purchase bulk ammo for the parts cannon.
Love that Cowboys towel. Ivan will find and fix that problem, no doubt
I had one with similar symptoms that had a leaking fuel pressure regulator.
A buddy of mine asked my advice for 1 side running rich, his opinion was o2 sensors, I said no, it's something else. The data and the smell said rich. Ended up being a leaking pressure regulator
That was my first hunch. Short term fuel trims were at -15% but the car smelling of gas? That would mean leaky injectors or something wrong upstream. It could also be a fuel rail overpressure leading to the fuel flow being completely wrong.
If it was a plugged exhaust that caused the sensors to go rich, it would mean the sensors read high but the car would not smell of gas.
I had the fuel pressure regulator on my list of things to check as well, especially with a hard start.
Very interesting. Thanks Ivan!
Thank you Iven I was wondering why when I revved the engine to 6500 the missfire cleared up
And, like Heinz ketchup, anticipation is making me wait.
Ivan building up the hype on this case
Great video 👍
This a good one. I would like to see the coil power, ground and signal on the scope. If I had to guess, I would say a PCM ground issue. You'll find it.
Those motors are a pain to diagnose… the few I’ve had to mess with had about a dozen small issues, lots of vacuum leaks and on and on and on… never ending…
Actually quite simple compared to the newer GDI VVT TURBO junk 😁
I shouldn’t have started pt 1. Not the cats. Just my feeling. Now I have to wait for pt 2
I would say you have several issues going on. Just the fact that the one O2 sensor is almost touching the frame tells me that it's the wrong one or definitely aftermarket if the exhaust pipe is original and in the original position. With the misfiring and the rich condition, the new cats could already be bad depending on how long it's been driven with those symptoms going on after the cat replacement. I can't wait to see part 2.
Would be interesting to know how much that customer had to pay up till now and how this all started out. Was it something that all of a sudden happened etc ... .
It was over a year.
Hey Ivan, it's been a while, but I seem to remember that this year had two different up stream sensors. One was Delphi and I think the other was Denso(?) Not sure. I never had both in hand but if the sensor you showed is too long (touching the frame) it could be the wrong one. Also, the ground for those sensors is one of the upper bell housing bolts. We have had a couple of these in my classroom that my students diagnosed O2 issues on over the years.
when it comes to Computer diagnostics you and Scanner Danner at Rosedale are my go to guys.
Good video ! I would go for one area at a time exhaust then fuel then ignition that way you can eliminate possibly of bad aftermarket parts . I am taking a stab at first bad aftermart part or parts then a crack intake manifold
I'm really waiting for part two .. it's almost like a soap opera lol I'm going with a crook cat ..
How could you leave us like that? I can't stand the suspense!
inlet temp and outlet temp to the catylitic converter.halfway thru the vid i'd check if that cat is gettting red hot or not???
Can't wait to see what happens with the O2 that's mashed into the frame rail. Learned values?
Thank you Ivan
Hi Pine Hollow. 97 grand voyager 3.3 crank, no start, no spark. Fuel pressure perfect. All fuses good. Replaced cam and crank sensors. Then noticed ASD relay has no power on the circuit when key on engine off.
Since I dont have a pressure transducer, my next step would be to move the plugs and see if fouling followed them before I declared them to not be fouling as, I would want to rule them out completely as participating in the issues. As you describe the problem I am leaning to the notion that a rich mixture has crapped the aftermarket cats especially the right side, however you have not really explained how many miles or hours this truck might have been driving. lacking a transducer, and assuming there is no crossover I would look for a spot in the cam where all exhaust valves on bank 1 are closed and i would dump 100 PSI of compressed air into the Bank 1 pipe at the sensor hole and I would measure pressure using a screw in gauge at the back sensor hole. If there is a crossover, a simple sawzall cut followed by inserting a hunk of 18 ga sheetmetal would separate the two sides. If this "test" revealed no sever lag in delivering pressure through thc cat, I would move on to looking at the remainder of the exhaust. In the end I think you are going to return to that sensor that was touching the frame to solve your sensor voltage issue?
.
You know a video is good when a 17 min video feels like 5min 🤣
This issue sounds alot like when Bank 1 Sensor 1 wire was shorted on our 6.0L, something chewed the wires. It caused the computer to go crazy, misfires and few other issues. I wonder if the O2 sensors and the coils share common source within the ECM.
Common source might not be a good idea in design. In other words separate ground wires.
Excess fuel can destroy a converter very quickly. I can't imagine the money this guy has spent on this repair already. It appears to be something effecting bank 1 only. Seems weird all four plugs would be fouled causing the problem. We still have the vacuum leak issue up by the intake.
He showed only three bad. O2 sensor.
Go get 'em Ivan !!!
I had this exact issue on a 5.3
After fuel pump replacement. Customer replaced the fuel pump at another shop and got hosed for 600 bucks.
The fuel pump was replaced because they believe that the fuel tank was sabotaged.
Then they replaced the spark plugs with champion plugs for a lawnmower. Once I emptied and cleaned tank and then put a good set of ac delcos in and a tank of 104 octane in it literally came to life. Guy said it put pepper in his stepper what I’d done to it. Then he got tboned 2 weeks later so no clue if it lasted.
If the O2 sensors are reading rich when they shouldn't, the engine is actually lean (it is removing more fuel than it should), so why would you smell gas and have fouled spark plugs? Wouldn't you only expect that if the engine was actually rich? Also if the sensors won't move down, why did it only reach -10%/-10%? Isn't the max -20%/-20%? This reminds me of the one where AFR sensors were accidentally used in a traditional O2 setup. The statement that "all four sensors can't be bad" actually seems completely wrong, since all four were probably replaced and who knows what they were replaced with (they could all be the wrong sensor or a junk sensor).
Is there a better, independent way to tell if a rich condition actually exists? Other than sniffing the tailpipe (which apparently indicated it is real)?
Gas analyzer is the answer.
The o2 sensors read rich because the actual afr is rich. The trims would be taking fuel away (leaning the engine from the designed ratios). What would cause the engine to be rich is anyone's guess, since it's even across the whole engine, maybe an intake restriction, bad pressure regulator sending raw fuel into the manifold, bad o2 sensor ground (but they oscillate and read fine so I don't think it's the o2s)
@@brainndamage Yeah, I was thinking that as well given that they said they smelled fuel. Of course we weren't there, so we don't know. But based on that, Ivan's hypothesis and further testing confused me. He seemed to be looking for a reason that the O2 sensors were wrong when he should be looking for a reason they are right.
@@jessicav2031 I thinking the same...but Ivan is going to figure it out. 😉😉
Checking fuel pressure is always a good idea. I have seen it where a engine would run rich because the fuel pressure was too high.
O2 sensors wiring I 'd also check secondary ignition
Scanners help so much
Ivan, always good stuff, thanks, but see that Cowboys blanket behind you? Get rid of that thing! That's the problem!! lol 😎 HNY
Aftermarket O2 sensors
Anyone else notice every time he turns the camera on himself he adjusts his headlamp LOL
HI IVAN ,looks like another great video.The videos lately have been great,all these people with so many different problems that have been looked at by many many mechanics.i think a small part of the issue is if they had them at the dealer or a high volume repair shop the pressure on rookie mechanics to fix or find something wrong so they can bill hours to the job is just to big.So they SHOOT THE PARTS CANON,in this case it's more like a gatilling gun.AND then send it,saying if it screws up bring it back.It also could be that they GOT the right part,that was the issue but USED A LOW QUALITY replacement that didn't meet the specs THE CAR Needed to run well.You are #1 as far as I'm concerned on TEACHING how to diagnose an issue and confirm that the part is the CORRECT part, once the repair is done.I hope you consider a TEACHING career once you get TIRED of actual repair.your knowledge and ability to diagnose should be passed down to STUDENTS.So thanks
Thank you so much for the feedback, Roberto! Glad you are finding value in the video case studies :)
Wow, so many shops had a stab at it lol.
(I think they need to do a course on engine management logic). Who could supply that 😀.
So in open loop mode the computer is using default settings that are close enough to allow it to run?.
The second it has sensors, logic hell breaks loose lol, plus any vaccume leaks/breaches could confuse matters.
Dang, you left us hanging!
Why is there never any ice cream in Ivan’s videos? This was definitely a double cone triple scooper.
Why aren’t O2 sensors switching when in closed loop? Does the truck never go to closed loop? That exhaust is suspect too, especially mashing the O2 sensor wires against the frame.
Have a 4.8 2000 silverado doing the same type thing. So looking forward for clues. Haven’t parts cannonball it yet😅
@ 3:50 Sounds like more investigation into the leak issue is in order imo
In my great uncles stepdaughters Ford EL Falcon it had a problem with the ground wire causing that sort of problem because the fuel injectors & the ignition coil is grounded through the wire which had a corrosion problem,it wasn't firing properly on cylinder number 6 & the spark plug was a bit wet.
It's possible that the PCM in the car in the video has a short circuit or a partial short circuit in the ignition coil signal circuit or fuel injector driver circuit,a possible cause is water inside the PCM,I have had that problem before.
It could be something a simple as a corroded terminal in a wiring connector or in the PCMs wiring harness or the wiring harness could be chafing on the chassis ground somewhere therefore causing it to short to ground, check the loom visually to see if it has been melted through by the exhaust headers, etc,I've had to do some wiring loom work on a 1991 model Toyota SV21 .Camry which had an overheated but not seized engine in it,some of the wires melted.together & shorted out inside of the loom.
If it runs a return style of fuel system then there may be a blockage in the return side of the fuel system, it's a possibility that could be causing the "pig" rich condition as well
Make sure you post them all 😎
Wow what does this say about the diagnostic skill of our current technicians ‼️ Is this a problem at the dealer level too. Are cars becoming too complicated to keep up with ?
I started in 1972. We didn’t really understand the new EGR systems that were just starting to show up until up in the 80’s.
I enjoy your videos because I enjoy the challenge. I’m retired 5 years after 45 years and can already see I’m falling behind the technology.
Looking forward to the answer. We used to tell those parts cannon owners to take all those parts back and then they could afford to pay us to diagnose their problem.
But it was not the owner, seven shops, remember? So I'm 78 and still have to fix my own cars, still looking for a good mech.😁
I can imagine the old cat broke up and blew chunks back into the muffler causing a partial blockage.
Strong smell of gas suggests that O2 sensors are not incorrect/defective and exhaust really is that rich. Cat on Bank 1 could be compromised as a result. So that may need to be replaced, depending on results of pressure testing. But why is exhaust rich? Insufficient spark? Test those aftermarket ignition coils. Looking forward to part 2.
In Arkansas that's like one of the most common trucks around and none of them have catalyst converter's
Right off the bat I believe we have upstream o2 sensor issues. Ive never seen them flatline that long. Usually they will start cycling up and down .2v up to .8v ..
I'll place my bet on bad 02 sensors and fouled spark plugs. 🤞
I'm going with bad O2 sensors. It looks like they are hitting the frame, which has possibly worn through the wiring harness coming out of the sensors
Lean condition from leaking manifold area and that caused cats to crap more than once IMO...
Im bettin its melted cats I would not count out a bad upstream o2 on bank 1 either..Running rich like that and burning all the loaded fuel built up is not good on cats. Im only a few months in on learning all this stuff thoo. I dont know if there is a down stream cat plugged and contaminating bank 2 or is that even possible? I just finished chapter one of danners classes. There is a lot to this stuff to learn. I learned a little the day you were here thoo. Thanks Ivan.
Can't wait to see how this turns out...my initial thought was that if a whole bank is bad it could be a bad cat if each bank has their own. Geez, maybe I'm actually learning something watching all of these repair vids ;)