Great insights Giz. It flies, "it's not stupid!" A design matter that stands out is the motor-tilt hinge-line is not aligned with the thrust line of the motor (1:35). If you look at the HeeWing VTOL (and other tilt designs), the motor mount and thrust-line are centre aligned with the tilt pivot axis. The Fimi Manta pivots from the top of the motor mount (1:35), so servo torque applied will be non-linear. When the tilt servos where moving faster, they also had to created additional unwanted torque from gyroscopic effects of the spinning propeller. (worse on transition from hover to wing flight due to higher motor rpm) For fixed-wing mode, it may be interesting to experiment with a tiny mix between elevon servo and the motor tilt servo. This could be a way to increase roll rate, and pitch response.
Great work, mine had the same oscillation issues. Overall a very cool little plane, just wobbly on transition. Mine was pretty locked in in tricopter and plane modes, just rocky transitioning to forward flight(mostly fine going back to hover mode). I'll definitely slow down the transition speed and raise the transition angle like in a comment below. BTW, use set mixer_automated_switch = ON and it allows INAV to transition to hover automatically in RTH mode when at the home point. I noticed in the video you said INAV couldn't do it. Happy flying!
As another Manta owner I am interested in your comment "set_mixer_automated_switch=ON". Giz FPV shows the flight being made using VTOL - Transition - Wing flight modes e.g. 3 distinct flying modes. How will your suggested configuration work with this 3 mode inav setup rather than a simple VTOL - Wing mode change ?
If you wanna give Inav a go on your Manta, I've put in link in my video description to download my DIFF. Will give you a head start on the programming :)
Very good, baby steps paid off. I use Horizon mode quite often in iNav as it gives full control of the flight surfaces to full deflection regardless of tune. The wobbling however is caused by Horizon Mode, so its a double edged sword. Once tuned, flying in Acro mode or gyro rate Mode if you prefer will give a much smoother flight overall. Yeah, position hold can only be used once its hovering, not before. Great progress eh?...🤔😳😏😀🇬🇧
Thanks for advice on motor servo speed adjustment. Just finished building a T1 ranger with F405TE vtol fc. Set the motor servo speeds as you advise. Test flight today and was pretty smooth.😊😊
Thanks for showing that iNav is feasible and taking time to create these extremely useful videos. I have just purchased one of these but since I know nothing about Ardupilot I am considering using iNav which I normally use for my fixed wing models. Have you developed the setup any further and created a newer iNav Diff All than the one shown on this video ?
I changed the mode in Ardupilot from QStab to QLoiter. Which has two big advantages. First off, it will not arm until you have satellite lock and secondly, it is much more stable and hovers reasonably well in this mode. A lot of folks get in trouble with the stock setup and take off not realizing that they don't have satellite lock. Then when they do RTH, it will fly away into never never land.
The reason it won't land for you. Is because you have nav_rth_allow_landing = FS_ONLY. It should be set to ALWAYS if you want it to land by the RTH switch.
If you limit the transition angle to 45 degrees or higher, the roll/yaw oscillation is greatly reduced. I don't want to slow my tilt servos, because the transition from 45 to forward flight has a ludicrous pitch up, as the rear motor just turns off while the tilt motors are still pointed upwards. It would be great if the rear motor turned off slowly at the final transition instead of instantly. I do the whole transition in Acro, no self leveling needed.
Thanks for the diff, got it set up, just one question how far should the throw travel on the wing servos end points be and how high should the rates be? my rates are at 100 percent. not sure if the diff you gave records these settings? Cheers.
Hi i would like your cli dump too please! mine has been a pain with the stock ardupilot, cannot get osd working properly with 03 air unit, too slow getting gps fix no matter what gps module you use or where you mount it.
Hello, Thank you very much for your advices and the video. It seems that the google drive link to the diff file is no more valid. Cold you check? Regards from Belgium
Great video, I'm still hesitant to switch to INAV. In the VTOL position, the engine mount is vertical with the engines horizontal ? On the original version, the engines are tilted slightly towards the rear.
Would you comment on how it performs in INAV versus ArduPilot? Also, how did you connect the compass? I bought the RTH version and the two leads for the compass are not connected. Where exactly do they connect on the flight controller. Thanks
Giz - I downloaded the diff months ago - finally found the time to use it - found I lost it - and now the link above appears to be dead. Can you repost? Thanks!
Hello, I just got a Manta. Its my first Wing and VTOL. I'm experienced with quadcopters and betaflight. For this Manta, would you recommend starting with ArduPilot or moving to iNav?
😱 OMG. I have so many questions. Did you use the FC version? Would you make a video of your conversion? Will you share your CLI dump. I been trying to get mine to fly with Arduplane with absolutely no luck at all. This looks like an awesome alternative.
Yeah man, using the stock manta with the stock electronics and the stock fc. Check the video description, Ive uploaded a cli dump there for people to copy 😊
I'm going to be using pixhark bc I'll be running pi zero for the AI. I have no idea how much trouble I'm going to experience trying to get it to fly on pixhawk but it seems many other larger vtol is running pixhawk so I guess I'll see lol
There's no problems with ardupilot (other than it can be tricky to setup for newbies). I did this mostly as just a test, as inav VTOL support is new. Wanted to see if it worked well
Probably the Heewing T1 VTOL, as its a very well designed and build aircraft. Although if you're inexperienced and feel like you're likely to crash a lot, get the Manta as its cheaper lol
It was very good, you are doing a good job updating Fimi Manta at Inav. Congratulations!!! I am waiting to fly mine too, I would like to ask you to look at your email if it is possible, the click that passed me has missed a profile! 😅
Turns out that a CLI dump doesn't work for a VTOL. Instead I think you need to do upload a DIFF ALL file instead. Check the video description, I've added a link to download the DIFF all file. Hopefully it'll work!
@@gizfpv I managed to solve by copying the profile that was missing from the Github page and putting it together with what sent me, I did not test for not being able to find a place to fly, but thanks for sharing with me and now putting the link, sure it helped me and will help me more people. Thanks!!!
![☀ Квадрокоптер с аэродинамическим профилем и гигантским потенциалом [Fimi Manta]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LtOiG-wiL_M/mqdefault.jpg)
YES..good information to use MixerTab for TilRotorSpeed and tiltservo positions to have "TransitionDone" smoother ❤
Awesome flying, dude! 😃
Thanks a bunch for all the tips for setting it up!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
That's an impressive improvement. Thanks for sharing your various tweaks 🙂
Great insights Giz. It flies, "it's not stupid!"
A design matter that stands out is the motor-tilt hinge-line is not aligned with the thrust line of the motor (1:35). If you look at the HeeWing VTOL (and other tilt designs), the motor mount and thrust-line are centre aligned with the tilt pivot axis.
The Fimi Manta pivots from the top of the motor mount (1:35), so servo torque applied will be non-linear. When the tilt servos where moving faster, they also had to created additional unwanted torque from gyroscopic effects of the spinning propeller. (worse on transition from hover to wing flight due to higher motor rpm)
For fixed-wing mode, it may be interesting to experiment with a tiny mix between elevon servo and the motor tilt servo. This could be a way to increase roll rate, and pitch response.
Good point about thrust line and pivot point....A schoolboy error by Fimi....🤔😳😏🇬🇧
Thank you so much for demystifying this model. And, thank you for the files! Great job!
Great work, mine had the same oscillation issues. Overall a very cool little plane, just wobbly on transition. Mine was pretty locked in in tricopter and plane modes, just rocky transitioning to forward flight(mostly fine going back to hover mode). I'll definitely slow down the transition speed and raise the transition angle like in a comment below. BTW, use set mixer_automated_switch = ON and it allows INAV to transition to hover automatically in RTH mode when at the home point. I noticed in the video you said INAV couldn't do it. Happy flying!
As another Manta owner I am interested in your comment "set_mixer_automated_switch=ON". Giz FPV shows the flight being made using VTOL - Transition - Wing flight modes e.g. 3 distinct flying modes. How will your suggested configuration work with this 3 mode inav setup rather than a simple VTOL - Wing mode change ?
Excellent Giz, been waiting for this. Many thanks
If you wanna give Inav a go on your Manta, I've put in link in my video description to download my DIFF. Will give you a head start on the programming :)
@@gizfpv Got it. Excellent
Very good, baby steps paid off. I use Horizon mode quite often in iNav as it gives full control of the flight surfaces to full deflection regardless of tune. The wobbling however is caused by Horizon Mode, so its a double edged sword. Once tuned, flying in Acro mode or gyro rate Mode if you prefer will give a much smoother flight overall. Yeah, position hold can only be used once its hovering, not before. Great progress eh?...🤔😳😏😀🇬🇧
the video I was waiting for... Thanks! will you share the dump cli parameters? I want to test inav on my manta with your setup
I've added a link to the video description :)
Now let’s try tail sitter in inav!
14:38 it has three motors, instead of quad I think better call it tricopter, multirotor, multicopter
Thanks for advice on motor servo speed adjustment. Just finished building a T1 ranger with F405TE vtol fc. Set the motor servo speeds as you advise. Test flight today and was pretty smooth.😊😊
This is wildly impressive. I’m gonna either use a donor plane or straight build my own plane very soon.
Wow! Amazing job ... My respect for the improvment and the final result. Many Thanks for share!
Thanks for showing that iNav is feasible and taking time to create these extremely useful videos.
I have just purchased one of these but since I know nothing about Ardupilot I am considering using iNav which I normally use for my fixed wing models. Have you developed the setup any further and created a newer iNav Diff All than the one shown on this video ?
Nice that you got it working with INAV. If mine don’t fly well in ardupilot at least I got back up 😅. Btw you gave me a good idea with blu tack👍
I changed the mode in Ardupilot from QStab to QLoiter. Which has two big advantages. First off, it will not arm until you have satellite lock and secondly, it is much more stable and hovers reasonably well in this mode. A lot of folks get in trouble with the stock setup and take off not realizing that they don't have satellite lock. Then when they do RTH, it will fly away into never never land.
@@raptr49 this is mine:ua-cam.com/users/shortsZ4g_wTjkYk8?si=GKQf2FMeksmjcE3T
It flies pretty well. For the time being, I will stick with Ardupilot.
The reason it won't land for you. Is because you have nav_rth_allow_landing = FS_ONLY.
It should be set to ALWAYS if you want it to land by the RTH switch.
If you limit the transition angle to 45 degrees or higher, the roll/yaw oscillation is greatly reduced. I don't want to slow my tilt servos, because the transition from 45 to forward flight has a ludicrous pitch up, as the rear motor just turns off while the tilt motors are still pointed upwards. It would be great if the rear motor turned off slowly at the final transition instead of instantly. I do the whole transition in Acro, no self leveling needed.
Thanks for the diff, got it set up, just one question how far should the throw travel on the wing servos end points be and how high should the rates be? my rates are at 100 percent. not sure if the diff you gave records these settings? Cheers.
Hi i would like your cli dump too please! mine has been a pain with the stock ardupilot, cannot get osd working properly with 03 air unit, too slow getting gps fix no matter what gps module you use or where you mount it.
I've added a link to the video description :)
@@gizfpv Nice!
Wild
Beautiful
Hello, Thank you very much for your advices and the video. It seems that the google drive link to the diff file is no more valid. Cold you check? Regards from Belgium
Great video, I'm still hesitant to switch to INAV. In the VTOL position, the engine mount is vertical with the engines horizontal ? On the original version, the engines are tilted slightly towards the rear.
Would you comment on how it performs in INAV versus ArduPilot?
Also, how did you connect the compass? I bought the RTH version and the two leads for the compass are not connected. Where exactly do they connect on the flight controller. Thanks
Now u need a servo on your roll switch for a camera tilt function so u can see better
Awesome!
Nice! Dump file please. I'm thinking about getting one
I've added a link to the video description :)
Awesome!
Giz - I downloaded the diff months ago - finally found the time to use it - found I lost it - and now the link above appears to be dead. Can you repost? Thanks!
Hello, I just got a Manta. Its my first Wing and VTOL. I'm experienced with quadcopters and betaflight. For this Manta, would you recommend starting with ArduPilot or moving to iNav?
Any chance you could add a link to your EdgeTx file for your Pocket transmitter ?
😱 OMG. I have so many questions. Did you use the FC version? Would you make a video of your conversion? Will you share your CLI dump. I been trying to get mine to fly with Arduplane with absolutely no luck at all. This looks like an awesome alternative.
Yeah man, using the stock manta with the stock electronics and the stock fc. Check the video description, Ive uploaded a cli dump there for people to copy 😊
Can i get camera vtx mount like yours
i'm totally buying one of these next time they go below $110 USD for the PNP+FC version
I'm going to be using pixhark bc I'll be running pi zero for the AI. I have no idea how much trouble I'm going to experience trying to get it to fly on pixhawk but it seems many other larger vtol is running pixhawk so I guess I'll see lol
Hi and congratulations! Why did you put "inav" in the Vtol? What problems does Vtol have with "Ardupilot"?
There's no problems with ardupilot (other than it can be tricky to setup for newbies). I did this mostly as just a test, as inav VTOL support is new. Wanted to see if it worked well
Nice.
Can you provide the dump file for us please 😊
I've added a link to the video description :)
what vtol would you raccomend to start?
Probably the Heewing T1 VTOL, as its a very well designed and build aircraft. Although if you're inexperienced and feel like you're likely to crash a lot, get the Manta as its cheaper lol
1st view!
Bad ass!!
It was very good, you are doing a good job updating Fimi Manta at Inav. Congratulations!!!
I am waiting to fly mine too, I would like to ask you to look at your email if it is possible, the click that passed me has missed a profile! 😅
Turns out that a CLI dump doesn't work for a VTOL. Instead I think you need to do upload a DIFF ALL file instead. Check the video description, I've added a link to download the DIFF all file. Hopefully it'll work!
@@gizfpv I managed to solve by copying the profile that was missing from the Github page and putting it together with what sent me, I did not test for not being able to find a place to fly, but thanks for sharing with me and now putting the link, sure it helped me and will help me more people. Thanks!!!