Dear viewer: The purpose of this video is NOT to trash or belittle Catholics who go to the New Mass, or say the are less Catholic. Rather, it is to illustrate the grave actions that are done every day in thousands of Churches. The only way for the Catholic Church to be restored, is to completely return to the Traditional Latin Mass as the only Mass of the Roman Rite. It is the historic Traditionalist position that the New Mass is theologically deficient regardless of how it is said. Much more will be said on this issue in an upcoming 100-plus episode series on the Problem with the New Mass, beginning in March of this year, where myself, Kennedy Hall, Murry Rundus, Matthew Plese, Anthony Abbate, and many others illustrate the central problems with this issue.
If anyone were to genuinely say "stop trashing the Novus Ordo, radtrad!" in response to this, it would be a clear sign of projection. It's literally just comparing two things side-by-side with no opinions added in, no manipulations or distortions. If that makes anyone defending the Novus Ordo uncomfortable, what does that tell you?
I'm from Chile, a Catholic mayority country, never been to a TLM because it a complete rarity here, but I have never been to a mass like that NO you are showing, I usually attend to a NO mass at a Benedict monastery and completely reverent, only a organ is played. There is ways to do reverent N.O. and because of its the complexity you simply cannot do a TLM everywhere a N.O. is done. TLM is not the original mass, we can, must, find a way to balance reverence with reach. TLM is not it.
@CarlosOteroC TLM was everywhere before the 70s. It just that priests aren't competent anymore, and finding a priest interested in anything traditional is a rarity. If Jesuit missions back in the day could do it, I think we can do it now. Also, the NO is deficient in more than just music or language. It is missing many important prayers, and other things.
@@CarlosOteroC Scholars agree that the TLM is the ancient Roman rite. The Issue with the New Mass is not primarily about how reverent it it said. The Problem is that it is theologically deficient.
Pardon the lengthy reply: A year ago, I was looking around for a Protestant church that fit my arbitrary expectations of what my religion should look like…nothing felt right, one day, I decided to step into a RCC that offers TLM. (I had no idea what any of that meant) I attended mass (NO) for the first time in my adult life and did not come out feeling like I wanted more…I then attended TLM and have not stopped since, I cannot get enough of the reverence and sacredness. I immediately signed up to be a catholic, for the first time I was kneeling and praying, I felt at peace…my surroundings was foreign, quiet, overwhelming…I knew I was home. God willing I will be a member of the one true apostolic church by Easter 🙏
Good for you it’s important to distinguish between good liturgy and bad bad liturgy unfortunately there’s good people in this bad liturgy. Saint Augustine said when the person dies God knows who were the members of his flock I’m just paraphrasing.
As the fallen away Canadian Catholic said after he left the church in the 1950s and later stopped by to hear a Mass in the 1970s--The Canadian said “whatever was there in the 1950s is no longer there…”
Novus Ordo could be fine if it set a high standard and stuck with it instead of deviating from the original like many of these Churches have after they went to it.
@ yes if they add Gregorian chant, altar rails, and ad orientum I’d return to novus ordo. Although then it wouldn’t be novus ordo. I can’t do the standing communion from some random girl with altar girls and stuff. It’s just too new age for me
My Church I grew up in used to have TLM, not when I was growing up, but like back in the 1960's and before and it's mass has been on the more traditional side even with its switch, but even so, today because it's not held to a strict standard, it has deviated more than I have felt comfortable, the music director literally only playing organ music at Christmas and Easter, then the rest is piano, some of it being traditional, but also a decent amount being modern contemporary stuff.
@ I’m very lucky to have an incredibly beautiful FSSP parish I’m a member of. I can see why it’s made so many saints. It exploded it my faith which I truly believe the low standard NO masses is why 68% of modern Catholics don’t believe in Catholic doctrine.
@ Mine does like chants in English (sometimes), then occasionally some Latin chants on certain feast days, but I think the problem is that these NO Churches took the term ordinary time waaaayyyy too literal lol.
I’ve been to the church at Econe during the 2000 SSPX Jubilee pilgrimage in Rome. I had the honor to serve as an acolyte at a High Mass at their church there. What a blessing! Deo gratias!
For many years while attending NO Mass I have been feeling like there is something missing here. I kept seeing only wrong things thinking I was being judgmental so I tried suppressing my feelings. When covid happened the NO got even worse. Then I found TLM and felt I was home. I wept many times as I felt Gods love after receiving Holy Communion. I realized that all these years at NO I wasn't being judgmental but it was GOD trying to show me the way to what I was searching for and that is the TLM. Im so thankful to God for taking me away from all the noise and improper practices of NO. Just watching this video brings great sorrow to my heart knowing that God is being offended while being sacrificed during the NO Mass. I pray that it will be completely abolished and the only thing that will remain of it are sorrowful memories. God bless you. ✝️ 🙏
I doubt the New Mass will ever be abolished. The NO Parishes will eventually fold due to lack of funding and vocations. It’s already happening with the consolidation of parishes. On the flip side- Just today I read a FSSP newsletter where 2 of the Apostolates are growing out of their current buildings. Houston, and Tyler. One of them has to offer 6 Sunday Masses. Even Hispanic Catholics value Traditions.
This really confuses me, I've been attending a NO parish my whole life here in Nigeria, None of our masses are ever like the NO mass in this video, we don't celebrate mass EXACTLY like the TLM in the video too, but we do use latin a lot throughout the mass, we also use songs in the local vernacular for some parts of the mass.
Yours must be of the traditional variant. A good amount of these U.S. NO Churches are influence by hipster and congregationalist/bapist/other protestant worship services, that's why they're like that.
@@geckoniner5625 I've been to a few "Pentecostal" services and in no way are they like the New Order (Novus Ordem) Catholic Mass. The original NO Mass is as beautiful in Latin as it is in English or other languages.
Same here, our 'new mass' where I attend is very reverent and not like this one shown in New Jersey. What many people may need to understand is that civilisation and culture change over time. When American culture became the de facto world culture, the pressure on the Catholic Church to adapt to change was irresistible. Americanism is the protestantisation of Catholicism via the consciousness changing shift brought on by the whole American experiment in governance. The USA is a Protestant culture. So the Universal Church, under pressure of the change in the whole world brought on by American Protestantism, reflects this cultural shift in philosophical thinking. This is at odds with Catholicism, but Protestant thinking has overtaken the Church in the modern world. The teachings of the Catholic Church are eternal and the 'Gates of hell will never prevail against it'. We must never forget that The Catholic Church is the one, true church of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour. I disagree greatly with the new modernist Church which appears to be Protestant. Protestantism and other forms of judaizing is anathema to the Catholic faith. This fight needs to be resolved with both/and thinking and not the either/or happening now. I pray daily that the new mass and radical thinking in Rome at the moment gets purged, that the TLM is allowed to continue, and all masses are made to be reverent. But you cannot either follow the Latin Mass right out of the Church. Schism is a real thing. The Catholic Church is more real and true than Eastern Orthodoxy because while Orthodoxy never changes, it fails to reflect the reality of the movement of time. (St Augustine) This is the danger of some of the current TLM movements. Since Catholicism and even Christianity no longer dominate culture in the power centres of the world we are no longer in the same world as when the Church was the centre and developed the TLM. Yet there is no doubt the TLM has retained something essential, core and important. I disagree greatly with the chauvinism of some of the traditionalists that claim the new mass isn't valid and isn't Catholic and is even sinful. It is time for a massive reform in the liturgy in the Catholic Church.
It's going on a year since I've been to the N.O mass .I can't ever go back.. So hard to watch. It's pure misbehavior at Calvary..I just want to add. I absolutely love my N.O priest..
I've gone to the NO 3x since 2020. 2 funerals and a wedding. Every time I think I am going to try to go to a weekday Mass I am reminded by something like this 😔
@Jorbinocus No. I would love to. I do have a Publicans prayer book. I'm sure you know..ita a eastern Catholism prayer book..and I'm obsessed with it. the iconography in the book is amazing..prayers and devotion to the Theotokos are beautiful.
@@markdaddy2089 No actually I’ve never heard about it! I’ll have to check it out maybe pickup my own copy. But as far as the Divine Liturgy you gotta go. It’s awesome. I love it just as much as the TLM.
@@tonijohnson7132 Please give it a try. We got to the Extraordinary Form ever Sunday, but it's a bit of a trip. I have found a couple of local weekday NO Masses that are very different from their Sunday Mass. The folks that go during the week tend to be more devout and reverential. And the priests at these Masses have not had a problem with me dropping to a knee to receive on the tongue.
To improve this video, the only thing i can think of is to add captions as to the titles of prayers / part of the Mass being said (Prayers of the Faithful / Offertory etc.)
My NO Priest is amazing. Our Bishop has been wise to put the most orthodox Priests in the Parish Church in St Marys KS! Please keep praying for God’s will to be done. Whatever it may be. I love the TLM as well. No place is going to be perfect. Living and working near St. Marys has shown me that.
@@Neb-ie5mj It seems to me that this may be mostly because of the SSPX. (I don't want to accuse the bishop of bad intentions, that's just how it usually goes. Where the SSPX shows up there it suddenly appears that you can get "permission" for TLM, etc.). So that people who for some reason attend both rites or out of curiosity will go there for the Traditional Mass will not feel how great the gap is between the "new" teaching and spirituality and the Traditional.
The one gives me a glimpse of something outside our time and space and lifts my soul to it: the other returns me to the world of the supermarket, the car park, trash, grit, the neighbours’ intrusive radio …
My family converted to Catholicism through the Novus Ordo, and we have been deeply blessed by the sacraments offered by NO priests. The Eucharist in the new mass has played a vital role in my spiritual growth. The Novus Ordo is valid and beautiful, offering the same sacrifice as the TLM to more than 98% of Catholics worldwide. Please do not diminish or insult the Mass that many of us grew up with, and through which we have encountered Christ. While I find the TLM to be incredibly beautiful, my heart belongs to the Novus Ordo, as it is the Mass in which I was raised in the faith. That said, I firmly believe that any instruments other than the organ should be banned in every Catholic Church. Clown masses are essentially sacrilegious, and only bread and wine are the only food that should ever touch the altar. Additionally, any music resembling evangelical Christian tunes should have no place in our Churches. And finally, it would be nice to have some Gregorian chants in our masses.
@@faithful451 Wow. How insensitive of you, I have been baptised into the Church and received our Lord in the Novus Ordo. To diminish my love for it to mere nostalgia is quite insulting.
Yeah for sure my guy, I too was raised in NO and would only just like it to be reformed to have placed in said reform, a high standard, a strict one at that.
What is your basis for saying the organ should be the only instrument allowed in worship? What (except a preference) makes organs more appropriate for worship? Keep in mind an organ is an expensive instrument which might not be in every church or chapel.
Some churches obviously can’t afford an organ. I know the parish my sister goes to in the Omaha archdiocese does not have an organ. not even after they built a new church a few years ago.
The piano isn't the problem it is the it is being used. That being said, for smaller parishes I suggest aquiring a harmonium or continuo organ. Many people are giving them away.
So painful to watch. I am a convert who only attended NO masses for 20 years. I didn't know any different, and I was taught that the NO was just the English translation of the Latin Mass. Once I started attending the TLM and seeing how different it really was, I really can not attend the NO mass. Also, you picked a random NO mass from NJ, but I have attended NO masses in North Carolina, Maine, New York, and they are all basically the same. There is a common myth that all a person needs to do is find a "reverent" NO mass, but I have never found one.
We found one in New York (ad orientem; Gregorian chant; kneelers) but it is a longer drive than to our TLM. It is truly a thing of beauty - and I believe if all were said in a similar manner, we would all greatly benefit!
It's nice that both of the Masses you picked are celebrated in rather minimally furnished churches. It shows how much can be done even with limited resources
The SSPX Chapel in my state is in a small house with only an altar, two statues, and a Jesus image on the wall. Yet, they have the most beautiful masses over all the other historic and big parishes.
Oh what we have lost! Lord God Almighty, King of Heaven and Earth We pray thee to preserve the Latin Mass in perpetuity as the Saints would recognize it in their day May it's depth, richness and fullness draw ever more converts and lost Catholics to it's majesty Heaven on Earth is never closer than during the Mass as it was intended Please Lord protect it from those that would seek to destroy it We are unworthy, we have been asleep, but so many are coming to the fullness of the Truth We beg in your mercy to lift the veil so that those who are blind come to see, that those who are deaf come to hear, and those who are in darkness come to know the light which The Mass illumines in the soul In nomine Jesu Christi, Amen. Our Lady of Sorrows Pray for Us Our Lady of Grace Pray for Us
My hometown parish closest to me is like this NO, but luckily my college one is much more reverent and I enjoy it much more. Will be attending TLM at home from now on.
It would seem that something is fundamentally missing from the novus ordo that is present in the TLM. What that something is i think is the transcendence that a TLM brings one to. A priest i knew a while back said it best about the NO: "The Sacrament is transcendent but the Liturgy is not"
In my personal experience the constant chatter and noise of the N.O. causes me irritation and raises my level of anxiety. It distracts my mind from prayer and Adoration. With anyone who suffers from PTSD or any other psychological disorder , the N.O. Mass only causes the symptoms to become more exasperated than usual. Unfortunately this is the only Mass that I Have Access to, and even more unfortunate is that it's held in an Anglican Church building.
I understand completely. Try earplugs and stay on your knees and focus on the tabernacle to avoid all of the nonsense. I am 100% on my knees with prayer hands for the whole Liturgy of the Eucharist. No 'grope of peace' or 'touch-down' arms in the air during the Our Father for me. My quiet time with Our Lord after Communion is best accomplished in the parking lot. Such is the state of our times..... :/ Oh, and "offer it up" along-side Our Lady at the foot of Calvary; comfort and shield her from the noise.
@ddoggall I agree with you on every suggestion. However, I was doing these things and my Priest asked me not to do them . But I do continue to kneel every time the Eucharist is elevated And when I receive on my tounge. The NO mass I attended in my village is offered in an Anglican Church with about 18 people so unfortunately I have no Tabernacle to focus on during the Mass . But as you said, "I'll offer it up" in humble obedience Until things in my life change for the better. I believe God currently has me in" The Dark Night of the senses" phase of the Spiritual journey. Which is painful but a Good place to be.
We made our change to a TLM parish when we both had our fingers in our ears after Communion because the organist and cantor appeared to be having a contest about who could be louder! Before we got to our car, my wife said "I can't do this anymore!" - and I immediately agreed. I am not the only one who brought up the constant taking before, during, and after Mass to our pastor. His response was that church was the only time some of the "older folks" get to visit. I reminded him that I was only weeks away from my 80th birthday and found the vestibule, newly refurbished gathering space, community center, or the diner a short walk away ALL amenable to visiting other parishioners - and that I would like some quiet when visiting our Lord!
The Latin mass is so beautiful, I wish there was one near me in the UK. The No in the UK is not quite like the NO in America, it's more reserved. I pray the Latin Mass will be restored so more people can attend or have the opportunity to attend one. At the church I attend one of the side chapels is set up for a Latin Mass, I think the priests must say it privately.
As a boomer, I know that the problem is that they are old-hippie boomers. There is no talking to them. Sadly, I'm left to wait for the biological solution to take its effect....about ten more years should do it. :/
What has blown my mind as I've talked with people online about the problems in your average Novus Ordo Mass is how many "Pro Novus Ordo" Catholics seem willfully ignorant and defensive of the comparisons being made here. I've posted in comments sections describing the exact things contained in the video on the right side as the kinds of things you can expect if you threw a dart on a map of the USA and went to the closest N.O. parish. I know this for a fact and by experience, because the N.O. parish right next to my house (which I faithfully attend, for various reasons, but likely will not be attending for much longer if I'm being honest) is practically beat-for-beat exactly like this random parish you found for this video; it's also exactly like a similar video Kennedy Hall made a while back; and it's also exactly like many other random parishes you could choose. Seriously, just look up a Novus Ordo parish's masses, if they stream them, here on UA-cam -- try it and see what the overall average trends towards! But what do I get in the replies to my comments? "I've literally never experienced what you're talking about." "What's the problem with what you described?" "You're being divisive, you sound judgemental." "Well Jesus is still there, so it still counts!" I can only assume that these N.O. commenters have all managed to find the ideal "Novus Ordo Unicorn" and have failed to realize that their experience, by nature of their Mass being colloquially called a "unicorn", is NOT the norm and that they're in a bubble; or alternatively, they're simply ignorant of the problems around them (or, and I don't say this lightly, could be lying), and they are reacting with extreme discomfort because their cognitive dissonance is being pointed out. Thank you for making this comparison video and for not providing any personal commentary about which Mass is better, I think this could all serve as a very useful resource in the future.
This is very true. I used to attend a unicorn mass before I took the sacrifice of going to the Tridentine Mass, and its nothing like the average NO. Literally every other Novus Ordo Mass I've attended is like the one on the right or worse. For anyone who has a unicorn mass, ask yourself what Mass gives more glory to God and make the sacrifice to go there. The liturgy is not for us, but is also meant as an act of religion.
Yeah brother, the NO Church I grew up in I would say is more on the traditional side, but because of it's lack of a strict standard to be held onto, it's quality of service has slightly decreased year by year.
It's the lack of standard that has made these Church's masses, even if originally not being too shabby of a worship service, susceptible to these Baptist/Congregationalist influences on the services.
Maybe because a lot of us in fact attend many reverent Novus Ordos frequently all the time. So what you are describing does not match up to observable reality. Yes cringe novus ordos exist, they are too common but its not necessarily the average depending on where you go.
@christopherjohnson9167 OK, well if we're just going to go purely off anecdotes, I've been to several different dioceses all around the USA, and gone to the nearest N.O. parish to the place I was staying at in each location, and every time it was this video's style of irreverent N.O. Mass. It was at varying levels of "cringe" (some were actually done quite competently), but the Mass was still fundamentally the same. Whether or not the Mass is "cringe" really isn't a factor, it's the reverence that is the concern, and the genuine average in regards to the N.O. Mass is an average that is NOT reverent, to the point that the reverent Masses simply start becoming a statistical anomaly. It should not "depend on where you go" on if you're going to get a reverent Mass or not, the fact such a stipulation even needs to be included indicates that there's a serious reverence problem at the average N.O. Parish. As an attempt at a little more objectivity and relying a little less on anecdotes, there's a site called "reverent Mass finder", which is basically a user-made database of parishes people have attended which don't have irreverent Masses. Run a search for any particular area and see which parishes pop up -- then, compare that result to a Google Maps search of Catholic Churches in that same area. Based on a couple of the searches I did of major cities, there is often, at best, a ratio of 1:3 reverent vs. Non-listed parishes. Of course just because a parish isn't on that website doesn't mean it ISN'T reverent, but again, we're dealing with the average here, and it's obvious that there's a clear trend towards irreverence. I'm glad you have found such a wellspring of reverent Novus Ordo Masses, but statistically I think you're in a much smaller minority than you realize.
The largest groups of kids I watched go to the March for Life from my diocese saw almost ALL of them kneel to receive communion, on the tongue. I think we are seeing an upswing in Reverence.❤
@@kateuli8481 Absolutely agree! We love being surrounded by the many young families with several children in tow at out TLM Mass. To witness these children (as young as 2, 3, 4) kneel, bless themselves, recite so many of the prayers, etc. gives great hope for the future of our Church!
Can’t be called Mass if the ‘priests’ aren’t even validly ordained priests. "When you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains"
Honestly (I go both to TLM & NO) the music in the NO one was fine for me, I get what you mean, it seems protestant, can't tell the difference, plus boomer, but the singers were good, I've been to some churches (of course I'm speaking of NO) and ...an issue with churches is wanting to be so nice and welcoming that they forget sometimes it's important to have standards... and my point is I went to one and other than being one of the few younger people, the singing of the "choir" was such that I felt like I was listening to a cat being strangled or nails on a chalkboard... not kidding, I was in the mass and it was a struggle as it was due to the boomer atmosphere, but then the "music" felt for me like I was doing penance and it was painful and I was just like... clearly there are people who want to sing but cannot and should NOT be in a music group with access to a microphone!!! You can sing to your hearts content in the pews and not be in tune... but if it's so unpractised and shabby (the group was all over the place too) and out of tune to the point those attending feel like it's a punishment (on top of the unappealing boomer elements!) ...I was just like ... I'm here fulfilling my Sunday obligations (I couldn't go to the TLM that week, and the local Polish one was not in the correct timeslot), but I was thinking, no wonder it's empty ... esp of young, don't have those problems in the other ones... plus boomer NO priests in the west ... hashtag not all... sure many are nice people... but most are out of touch and some are just ex hippies and brought the lefty woodstock paganism with them :/ Anyway, my point was... the singers in the NO one were good... they could sing, it was nice tunes/songs and relaxing and they were passionate and talented... I've been in ones like the one I described above... that's why I described that experience... phew.
The trouble with this comparison is that it is the best of TLM with a poor Novus Ordo. Back in the day half of latin masses were gabbled by priests with a rudimentary grasp of latin. A Novus Ordo mass celebrated with incense well trained servers, extraordinary ministers when circumstances demand, and ad orientam if possible is very dignified reverent and spiritual. I have no problem with the TLM but let's not use it as a weapon to divide the church.
In all honesty, the misnomer that the Priests back in the day did not know Latin in an insane take. All Seminaries in the west had all their dogmatic and moral theology classes in Latin, and had to have scholastic disputation in Latin weekly over highly complex theological topics. When ministers said mass sloppily, they were often disciplined by their superiors or the local bishop. Most of the bad stories were here today are from "boomers" who did not like the Church to begin with. The NO on the other hand wether said reverently or not has theological deficiencies in it.
I love my N.O. preist and deacons who helped me become Catholic last year in RCIA. I love the community too and I've been volunteering at the parish for the Confirmation classes for High Schoolers. I've been going to the TLM since last November and I can't get enough of it. The N.O. isn't going away but it does need a serious reform.
@@authorityfigure1630 The 70’s Hippies won’t reform the NO. In their mind, any reform is a rejection of the Council Documents. They would rather see an empty Church than admit they were horribly wrong.
The only reform it needs is to be held to a higher standard, and be stricter on that standard instead of having loose interpretations on relatively lax standards.
@@authorityfigure1630 The main reason is to have it in English for understanding, but of course have it still reverant. And not that it can't even have some latin thrown in there, but most of it being in English I think would be a good compromise for people outside the Church to not be ignorant of the worship taking place as well, which I've heard complaints from people even in my local community express their issues with these Latin based masses.
@@ancapgrandscribe9546 ehh I get the sentiment you’re putting forth but I lean more towards “mass isn’t a Bible study and it isn’t where you get catechised” I think the Novus Ordo should be suppressed and eventually phased out judging from the fruits of it since it’s been implemented. Better Catechesis and Catholics reading scripture will fix the issues you’re concerned with.
This video proves how crucial music is to the experience of the mass, because it can be very deceptive. The NO mass shown in this video may be what's considered average in the US, in Europe, at least in the country that I live, the average NO mass plays the ORGAN... which makes the mass SEEM a lot more reverent than it actually is. Everything else, though, is the same: the priest is reduced to a mere animator, and the mass hinges on his charisma. And ofc you have, among other things, lay people (incl. women!) hand out the Holy Eucharist. It's an aberration once you've gotten to know the TLM.
Thank you! Thats exactly what I experiened at several churchs on both sides!!!! I CHOOSE THE CHURCH JESUS GAVE US ...I WEEPEX IN SORROW WHEN I EXPERIENCED THE SIFFERENCE.
To be fair, there are some Novus ordo churches that DO use the organ. I grew up in one. The rare time we had someone play a guitar was when The at the time organist, who was elderly, had the day off. We had daily school mass Monday through Friday. And it was my religious sister teacher with a habit that played the guitar at mass, and that was maybe once a month at most. Now they have a younger organist who is a mother of several of the students that go to the school and she’s also the music teacher I think she’s still the regular school Mass organist at least. And I think I remember hearing a harp or a flute. I go to the Low mass now at a fssp chapel.
The one on the left reminds me of my current parish. 👍🏻 The one on the right reminds me of all of my past parishes, including the one that is literally 1 mile from my home. 👎🏻
Opening Orthodox Divine Liturgy: Diacon: "FATHER BLESS" Priest: "BLESSED IS THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT NOW AND EVER AND UNTO AGES OF AGES. AMEN People make the sign of the Cross and make a prostrations.
@@thetraditionalthomist I’ve caught a couple of your suggestions(The Catholic Controversy, Controversies of the Christian Faith)through livestreams. I also remember you saying you had some books to suggest to the guest from The Catholic Convert on the TLM. I’m a fairly new convert. So understanding the church’s history and traditions better would be great.
@@Mommabear34 I see. Ok, I would recommend the following. Firstly, read a Good Traditional Catholic Catechism. For instance "The Catechism Explained". For the Mass issue I would recommend "The Problem of the Liturgical Reform" by the SSPX. For the Crisis, I would read "Open Letter to Confused Catholics" by Archbishop Lefebvre and "The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church" by the SSPX. I would also seek out an SSPX chapel in your area to go to. IF there are none, try and find a TLM. Hope this helps. Pray the Rosary everyday, abstain from Meat on Friday, go to confession once a week, and practice virtue. You are in my prayers.
Welcome to this communal celebration of the Eucharist. Today is the 6 millionth Sunday in ordinary time. Please stand for the entrance hymn, one bread on body, found in your breaking bread hymnal on page 666. Please stand
I always wondered why many NO parishes always start with this kind of announcement, when the liturgy was meant to be itself self-explanatory, no guesswork or mystery anymore. I hate when I have to travel and I get it - my ability to immerse myself into prayer is already kneecapped at minute 0 when I’m told this.
I feel you. I went to a NO last Saturday for first Saturday mass, it was terrible to say the least. The priest made his procession like he was a celebrity walking to the stage. I struggled throughout the mass.
@briankenome I struggle greatly as well, so much so that for me to go, it becomes a great occasion to sin. Even if the priest isn't acting or like a celebrity wannabe, the guitar music, the singers all distorting and contorting their faces with their eyes closed like they are on stage at a rock concert, the female lectors, the lifting up of the palm to signify that we are to sing the response to the psalm, the horrible and extremely paltry chanting that takes the place of true Chant, everyone assuming the orans position at the Our Father, the Masonic handshake, the Protestantized praise and worship singing of the songs and the parts of the Mass, the much less than lustre homily where one hears nothing of the teachings of our Faith, but are ramblings based on pop psychology with stressed analogies and horribly pithy misquotes from other religions. Yeah, I have an extremely hard time. Even if I position myself at the very back, people stare at me then give themselves space from me because I kneel during the anaphora, I respond in Latin, I refuse the handshake, I stay kneeling from the Lamb of God onwards. And after, since by this point I couldn't even go receive Communion, I try to make a spiritual communion, but there is no peace inside. I want to get up and run out of there so fast.
same, went to NO my whole life up until 3 and a half years ago, since then I've gone to TLM exclusively and watching this video gave me major ptsd lol.
If you think this video belittles those who go to the new mass, you clearly think the Old Mass is better than the New Mass, because all this video is doing is comparing an average High Mass to an average Novus Ordo Mass side by side.
Maybe I'm spoiled but the average Novus Ordo where I live is nothing like that. I've been to 3 different ad orientem Novus Ordo masses this week at 3 different churches. I'm not trying to negate any point made by this video as I'm on your side, I just think you chose a particularly bad example. Again, I have no idea how it is other places though. And, before anyone says it, yes I'm aware that you would argue that there are inherent deficiencies in the Novus Ordo even when it's celebrated very reverently. I think that's up for debate, and I would argue for the "reverent Novus Ordo"
The priests who are celebrating the novus ordo missae are supposedly following what the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) has said. I'm so sad when saw some priests who not being strict about the liturgy especially the Holy Mass. I think maybe they should celebrate the novus ordo missae in ad orientam.
1. Using the Mass on the right as a means of condemning the NO in itself is disingenuous. If you want to put blame on certain pastors and bishops for this sort of thing, fine, but it isn't fundamentally ingrained in the liturgy. My diocese has very little of it and nothing comparable. 2. While the sights and sounds of a TLM might appear to be more aesthetically reverent than some NOs, aesthetics don't determine liturgical validity. Also, contrary to internet Catholic belief, every Mass prior to VII wasn't some solemn affair like the average TLM is today. I sometimes go to a low TLM in a little chapel near me. To the non-Catholic, it wouldn't appear to be much different in reverance to the NO at the main church across the street. 3. It's ironic how SSPX members and other schismatics refer to themselves as traditional Catholics when there is absolutely nothing traditional about going to a Mass that Rome has declared illicit. Same goes for all the clergy bashing that the so-called traditionalists like to engage in. If you want to talk about tradition, clergy bashing has traditionally been a Protestant sport.
I agree with everything you said. The schismatics are scumming themselves. What is worst is that they do not even notice that they are schismatics and that they do not respect the authority of the church. You explained it brilliantly. And truly, with the horrors spoken here, it's no wonder they were banned. With all the shortcomings and changes in NO, they are again completely out of step with Jesus. Nicely said. 🙏🙏🙏
If the suit fits.. but... Our Lord does not find pleasant a Mass celebrated in rebellion or excommunication. Christ is as present as present as in the Traditional Latin Rite (TLR) as in the New one. Nevertheless, the TLR is the pinnacle of worship of God.
Can we say it makes no sense why leadership would sabotage and disparage their own history, tradition, and Latin identity...unless they don't like it and they actually reject it. If that's the case, then how can we we trust them now? What they're demanding, the current novelty, as being sacred and honored may just be rejected in the future. That's the problem with neglecting and rejecting tradition... if it's not sacred and to be revered, who is to say the current liturgy is?
If they read the comments and in general on youtube, be sure that you are going to a sect and schism. How long will it be allowed, with this kind of rhetoric and mockery of the church, I don't think for long.
I love my Novus Ordo Mass here in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia. It is nothing like this. My three Priests are very reverent & devout. Regarding these two, the TLM is true worship of our almighty God. This NO seems more into putting on a show.
This is confirmation of my worst fears--Traditionalists who want the Latin Mass and Communion rails to be the ONLY Mass allowed, even for those of us who want the Mass to remain in English, and with Communion in the hand. I will be a totally alienated and left behind Catholic if people like the traditionalthomist get their way. I will be left behind, but something tells me that Traditionalists won't care, because they feel that Catholics like me are "heretics" and they have no love in their hearts for Novus Ordo Catholics like me.
Our 'new mass' where I attend is very reverent and not like this one shown in New Jersey. What many people may need to understand is that civilisation and culture change over time. When American culture became the de facto world culture, the pressure on the Catholic Church to adapt to change was irresistible. Americanism is the protestantisation of Catholicism via the consciousness changing shift brought on by the whole American experiment in governance. The USA is a Protestant culture. So the Universal Church, under pressure of the change in the whole world brought on by American Protestantism, reflects this cultural shift in philosophical thinking. This is at odds with Catholicism, but Protestant thinking has overtaken the Church in the modern world. The teachings of the Catholic Church are eternal and the 'Gates of hell will never prevail against it'. We must never forget that The Catholic Church is the one, true church of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour. I disagree greatly with the new modernist Church which appears to be Protestant. Protestantism and other forms of judaizing is anathema to the Catholic faith. This fight needs to be resolved with both/and thinking and not the either/or happening now. I pray daily that the new mass and radical thinking in Rome at the moment gets purged, that the TLM is allowed to continue, and all masses are made to be reverent. But you cannot either follow the Latin Mass right out of the Church. Amazingly the TLM risks becoming a 'protest' (protestant) sect itself! Schism is a real thing. I say allow both but eradicate the irreverent 'pop' liturgies. The Catholic Church is more real and true than Eastern Orthodoxy because while Orthodoxy never changes, it fails to reflect the reality of the movement of time. (St Augustine) This is the danger of some of the current TLM movements. Since Catholicism and even Christianity no longer dominate culture in the power centres of the world we are no longer in the same world as when the Church was the centre and developed the TLM. Yet there is no doubt the TLM has retained something essential, core and important. I disagree greatly with the chauvinism of some of the traditionalists that claim the new mass isn't valid and isn't Catholic and is even sinful. It is time for a massive reform in the liturgy in the Catholic Church. I appreciate the uploader claims he doesn't mean to belittle the Catholics who have found their faith in new mass parishes. To be honest that is nearly all that is available to Catholics today. Looking forward to the series. I would like to see however some efforts towards a happy medium.
I don't understand nor speak Latin. It's easy to romanticize the Latin mass, however kneeling in the pews, if you don't feel the presence of the Lord, that is the bigger problem. I go to the "average" mass and have been to the Latin. The chants are great, however, it's the presence of the Lord in the tabernacle and the eucharist, which is important.
This is like going to a classic car show and noticing that the cars are nicer than the ones you saw in a random parking garage. It is called "selection bias" You are comparing something done by over a billion people, with no specific motive VS Something done by small community for specific reasons. A fair comparison would be: The average mass in let's say 1959 VS The average mass today. The truth is abuse is abuse, and liturgy is done by the people. Guitar masses, clown masses etc. are a product of Boomers, Sexual Revolution and so on. Do you really think updating a missal is what caused these things? But we know from history that many Protestant denominations struggled with the same problems in their services, in the same cultures, at the same time. Was it Rome that caused Protestants to suddenly have guitars at their services?
People really claiming you are going to hell if you don't go to Latin mass. Show me that in scripture..... the Latin mass was not even organized until the protestant heresy. I don't hate the Latin mass at all, however to claim hell for those who go to NO mass is a liar.
Walking down the aisle with the Bible : LOOK AT US PROTS LOOK HOW MUCH WE LOVE THE BIBLE. Prots and Catholics Last 40 years: “that’s cool, but we’re bouncing to the local mega church that has Comfy theatre seats, muffins, coffee and rock band concerts! Plus Pastor Steve is cool, he wears skinny jeans!”
The Mass itself is perfect because it is the Traditional rite. I am very thankful that those orders give pastoral care to millions of Catholics. That being said, I do think the groups (on paper) have issues, because they don't see any issues with the NO or the Council. That being said, I dont think they are evil men, and if they were the only TLM around I would go. I hope that makes sense.
@ Yeah man that makes sense and I actually agree with that. But I feel like some of them secretly don’t agree with the NO or the council but just don’t say anything in hopes that they don’t get labeled schismatic or whatever else.
@@thetraditionalthomist I’m sure they see issues. What they don’t do is speak out or be critical. The charity of St. Francis de Sales. If you cannot say anything charitable then don’t say anything - comes to mind.
@@TradCatholicWoman Hopefully, they’re never forced to offer the New Mass. if it happened, I doubt even half would cave in. As for the Council Documents - Sometimes I wonder if Pope Francis has even read them. He violates them more than anyone.
The Tridentine Latin Mass has been changed so many times it isn't funny. The current 1962 changes really bring the Mass down from its 1950 and 1917 changes. It's still good but not as great as the 1917 changes. It is far from the September 1783 "Victory Mass" said in Philadelphia shortly after the Treaty of Paris was signed, ending the American Revolution. It is not connected to Columbus's "Discovery Mass" in 1492, which was a pre-Tridentine Mass. The New Order Mass has its roots in the earliest forms of the Mass. Read The Didache. Both of the samples you use for this video are not great. The great commonality in both these Masses is the Consecration - the Miracle of Transubstantiation stays the same.
This was absolutely painful. But sooooo striking in showing how the TLM and the NO share no resemblance; they are like different religions. Brought back terrible memories.
As a TLM Catholic, every Catholic on both sides would be happy with this reform: 1. Ad orientum. 2. Gregorian chant. 3. Mass in the vernacular. 4. Altar rails. We don’t go to TLM because it’s in Latin. We go despite that.
Ceremonies Used in the Administration of the Sacraments, as taught in The Roman Catechism of Trent. To (the matter and form) are added certain ceremonies. These cannot be omitted without sin, unless in case of necessity; yet, if at any time they be omitted, the Sacrament is not thereby invalidated, since the ceremonies do not pertain to its essence. It is not without good reason that the administration of the Sacraments has been at all times, from the earliest ages of the Church, accompanied with certain solemn rites. There is, in the first place, the greatest propriety in manifesting such a religious reverence to the sacred mysteries as to make it appear that holy things are handled by holy men. Secondly, these ceremonies serve to display more fully the effects of the Sacraments, placing them, as it were, before our eyes, and to impress more deeply on the minds of the faithful the sanctity of these sacred institutions. Thirdly, they elevate to sublime contemplation the minds of those who behold and observe them with attention, and excite within them faith and charity. To enable the faithful, therefore, to know and understand clearly the meaning of the ceremonies made use of in the administration of each Sacrament should be an object of special care and attention.
Im someone studying and inquiring both orthodoxy and catholicism whos convinced on everything that is mutually agreed upon by the two. 4 years ago when my studies began i made this commitment: if i accept the literal presence of christ in the eucharist and not just a symbol or a spiritual presence, then i will NEVER attend a typical novus ordo.
Sir, why even do this? No matter how much you say it doesn’t put one Holy Mass over the other, it really, really does. Please be honest with yourself. It’s already so damaging that you put this on a public platform. The result, division. Holy Spirit wisdom would reveal this to you. The Holy Spirit is grieved by division. God sees the sincerity and cleanliness of heart in the offering of the Mass, any Holy Mass. I am myself more drawn to traditional hymns etc, but dare not judge another’s sacrifice. I pray this ugly, self-righteous, spiritual pride will just stop. Do you comprehend that the. Catholic Church is universal? You want the Catholic people in Asia and Africa where the church is thriving most, to learn Latin. Have a huge, beautiful pipe organ, when they can barely afford to buy food for their families. Please. This displeases God and we will have to answer for all our actions and harmful words and intentions.
I'm not gonna pretend that I'm an expert on Catholicism, liturgy or even a good catholic, but the new mass has a strong protestant and cheap sentimentality vibe, like they are trying way too hard to make you feel something. I get it they they're were trying to communicate and bring the believers close to the liturgy and faith, but the novus ordo is way too mundane and kinda turns away from the divine and it's beauty
Dear viewer: The purpose of this video is NOT to trash or belittle Catholics who go to the New Mass, or say the are less Catholic. Rather, it is to illustrate the grave actions that are done every day in thousands of Churches. The only way for the Catholic Church to be restored, is to completely return to the Traditional Latin Mass as the only Mass of the Roman Rite. It is the historic Traditionalist position that the New Mass is theologically deficient regardless of how it is said. Much more will be said on this issue in an upcoming 100-plus episode series on the Problem with the New Mass, beginning in March of this year, where myself, Kennedy Hall, Murry Rundus, Matthew Plese, Anthony Abbate, and many others illustrate the central problems with this issue.
If anyone were to genuinely say "stop trashing the Novus Ordo, radtrad!" in response to this, it would be a clear sign of projection. It's literally just comparing two things side-by-side with no opinions added in, no manipulations or distortions. If that makes anyone defending the Novus Ordo uncomfortable, what does that tell you?
I'm from Chile, a Catholic mayority country, never been to a TLM because it a complete rarity here, but I have never been to a mass like that NO you are showing, I usually attend to a NO mass at a Benedict monastery and completely reverent, only a organ is played. There is ways to do reverent N.O. and because of its the complexity you simply cannot do a TLM everywhere a N.O. is done. TLM is not the original mass, we can, must, find a way to balance reverence with reach. TLM is not it.
@CarlosOteroC TLM was everywhere before the 70s. It just that priests aren't competent anymore, and finding a priest interested in anything traditional is a rarity. If Jesuit missions back in the day could do it, I think we can do it now. Also, the NO is deficient in more than just music or language. It is missing many important prayers, and other things.
@@LaserFace23 Very good points!
@@CarlosOteroC Scholars agree that the TLM is the ancient Roman rite. The Issue with the New Mass is not primarily about how reverent it it said. The Problem is that it is theologically deficient.
The TLM Priest in the thumbnail is the one who brought me into the church, heard my first confession, and gave me our lord in holy communion.
That’s awesome! Praise God. Just make sure to capitalize nouns like Our Lord and Holy Communion Confession etc
Pardon the lengthy reply:
A year ago, I was looking around for a Protestant church that fit my arbitrary expectations of what my religion should look like…nothing felt right, one day, I decided to step into a RCC that offers TLM. (I had no idea what any of that meant) I attended mass (NO) for the first time in my adult life and did not come out feeling like I wanted more…I then attended TLM and have not stopped since, I cannot get enough of the reverence and sacredness.
I immediately signed up to be a catholic, for the first time I was kneeling and praying, I felt at peace…my surroundings was foreign, quiet, overwhelming…I knew I was home.
God willing I will be a member of the one true apostolic church by Easter 🙏
Good for you it’s important to distinguish between good liturgy and bad bad liturgy unfortunately there’s good people in this bad liturgy. Saint Augustine said when the person dies God knows who were the members of his flock I’m just paraphrasing.
AMEN!! Welcome home!! 🙏
Welcome Home Deo Gratias
One reminds me why I left Protestantism. The other makes me feel like I never did 😮.
That was the whole point of the liturgical deformation. To make the Catholic rite more Protestant
Catholicism is a disposition more than it is a particular sacramental or artifact of the mass
that's really deep
Well said
Come to holy Orthodoxy and you won't have to deal with that nonsense
Wow! When you place the two Masses next to each….Wow! One Mass is heavenly and the other earthy!
If not earthy, it’s definitely cringe worthy. is that a cymbal she’s playing?
@@femaleKCRoyalsFan tambourine
Unbelievably sad that we have lost the mystical wonder and beauty of the real mass it was truly heaven and earth together ❤
“By the rivers of Babylon we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion”…
As the fallen away Canadian Catholic said after he left the church in the 1950s and later stopped by to hear a Mass in the 1970s--The Canadian said “whatever was there in the 1950s is no longer there…”
TLM must return as the standard. It has grown the faith of my family so deeply. It brings Christ to the front of mind through the whole week.
Novus Ordo could be fine if it set a high standard and stuck with it instead of deviating from the original like many of these Churches have after they went to it.
@ yes if they add Gregorian chant, altar rails, and ad orientum I’d return to novus ordo. Although then it wouldn’t be novus ordo. I can’t do the standing communion from some random girl with altar girls and stuff. It’s just too new age for me
My Church I grew up in used to have TLM, not when I was growing up, but like back in the 1960's and before and it's mass has been on the more traditional side even with its switch, but even so, today because it's not held to a strict standard, it has deviated more than I have felt comfortable, the music director literally only playing organ music at Christmas and Easter, then the rest is piano, some of it being traditional, but also a decent amount being modern contemporary stuff.
@ I’m very lucky to have an incredibly beautiful FSSP parish I’m a member of. I can see why it’s made so many saints. It exploded it my faith which I truly believe the low standard NO masses is why 68% of modern Catholics don’t believe in Catholic doctrine.
@ Mine does like chants in English (sometimes), then occasionally some Latin chants on certain feast days, but I think the problem is that these NO Churches took the term ordinary time waaaayyyy too literal lol.
I’ve been to the church at Econe during the 2000 SSPX Jubilee pilgrimage in Rome. I had the honor to serve as an acolyte at a High Mass at their church there. What a blessing! Deo gratias!
I've never attended a NO like this, praise be to God. Very blessed over here. I can't wait to attend a TLM
For many years while attending NO Mass I have been feeling like there is something missing here. I kept seeing only wrong things thinking I was being judgmental so I tried suppressing my feelings. When covid happened the NO got even worse. Then I found TLM and felt I was home. I wept many times as I felt Gods love after receiving Holy Communion. I realized that all these years at NO I wasn't being judgmental but it was GOD trying to show me the way to what I was searching for and that is the TLM. Im so thankful to God for taking me away from all the noise and improper practices of NO. Just watching this video brings great sorrow to my heart knowing that God is being offended while being sacrificed during the NO Mass. I pray that it will be completely abolished and the only thing that will remain of it are sorrowful memories. God bless you. ✝️ 🙏
This is my story as well, except it happened to me in 2018.
I doubt the New Mass will ever be abolished. The NO Parishes will eventually fold due to lack of funding and vocations. It’s already happening with the consolidation of parishes.
On the flip side- Just today I read a FSSP newsletter where 2 of the Apostolates are growing out of their current buildings. Houston, and Tyler. One of them has to offer 6 Sunday Masses. Even Hispanic Catholics value Traditions.
That is me too! I could not keep from weepi g for Our Lord Jesus on the cross for us watched this stuff so orotestant!!!!
Oh, how I can relate!! As John Denver said, Ain't it good to be back home again?!
Thanks Nick! I’m looking forward to this series!
This really confuses me, I've been attending a NO parish my whole life here in Nigeria, None of our masses are ever like the NO mass in this video, we don't celebrate mass EXACTLY like the TLM in the video too, but we do use latin a lot throughout the mass, we also use songs in the local vernacular for some parts of the mass.
Yours must be of the traditional variant. A good amount of these U.S. NO Churches are influence by hipster and congregationalist/bapist/other protestant worship services, that's why they're like that.
And due to there not being a strict standard held by some of these Bishops and the Pope himself, they can get away with it.
Majority of NO in my city are almost like a Pentecostal service at times it’s very sad. And I think most parishioners in the US would agree
@@geckoniner5625 I've been to a few "Pentecostal" services and in no way are they like the New Order (Novus Ordem) Catholic Mass. The original NO Mass is as beautiful in Latin as it is in English or other languages.
Same here, our 'new mass' where I attend is very reverent and not like this one shown in New Jersey.
What many people may need to understand is that civilisation and culture change over time.
When American culture became the de facto world culture, the pressure on the Catholic Church to adapt to change was irresistible.
Americanism is the protestantisation of Catholicism via the consciousness changing shift brought on by the whole American experiment in governance. The USA is a Protestant culture. So the Universal Church, under pressure of the change in the whole world brought on by American Protestantism, reflects this cultural shift in philosophical thinking.
This is at odds with Catholicism, but Protestant thinking has overtaken the Church in the modern world.
The teachings of the Catholic Church are eternal and the 'Gates of hell will never prevail against it'.
We must never forget that The Catholic Church is the one, true church of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour.
I disagree greatly with the new modernist Church which appears to be Protestant. Protestantism and other forms of judaizing is anathema to the Catholic faith. This fight needs to be resolved with both/and thinking and not the either/or happening now.
I pray daily that the new mass and radical thinking in Rome at the moment gets purged, that the TLM is allowed to continue, and all masses are made to be reverent. But you cannot either follow the Latin Mass right out of the Church. Schism is a real thing.
The Catholic Church is more real and true than Eastern Orthodoxy because while Orthodoxy never changes, it fails to reflect the reality of the movement of time. (St Augustine) This is the danger of some of the current TLM movements.
Since Catholicism and even Christianity no longer dominate culture in the power centres of the world we are no longer in the same world as when the Church was the centre and developed the TLM.
Yet there is no doubt the TLM has retained something essential, core and important. I disagree greatly with the chauvinism of some of the traditionalists that claim the new mass isn't valid and isn't Catholic and is even sinful. It is time for a massive reform in the liturgy in the Catholic Church.
As someone who grew up in the NO that's the average NO experience in my Diocese.
Mines a decent bit more traditional, but since there's no strict standard, they have been regressing year by year.
It's going on a year since I've been to the N.O mass .I can't ever go back.. So hard to watch. It's pure misbehavior at Calvary..I just want to add. I absolutely love my N.O priest..
Thats awesome dude. Have you ever had the opportunity to go to a Byzantine Catholic divine liturgy?
I've gone to the NO 3x since 2020. 2 funerals and a wedding. Every time I think I am going to try to go to a weekday Mass I am reminded by something like this 😔
@Jorbinocus No. I would love to. I do have a Publicans prayer book. I'm sure you know..ita a eastern Catholism prayer book..and I'm obsessed with it. the iconography in the book is amazing..prayers and devotion to the Theotokos are beautiful.
@@markdaddy2089 No actually I’ve never heard about it! I’ll have to check it out maybe pickup my own copy. But as far as the Divine Liturgy you gotta go. It’s awesome. I love it just as much as the TLM.
@@tonijohnson7132 Please give it a try. We got to the Extraordinary Form ever Sunday, but it's a bit of a trip. I have found a couple of local weekday NO Masses that are very different from their Sunday Mass. The folks that go during the week tend to be more devout and reverential. And the priests at these Masses have not had a problem with me dropping to a knee to receive on the tongue.
To improve this video, the only thing i can think of is to add captions as to the titles of prayers / part of the Mass being said (Prayers of the Faithful / Offertory etc.)
Good point!
My NO Priest is amazing. Our Bishop has been wise to put the most orthodox Priests in the Parish Church in St Marys KS! Please keep praying for God’s will to be done. Whatever it may be. I love the TLM as well. No place is going to be perfect. Living and working near St. Marys has shown me that.
@@Neb-ie5mj
It seems to me that this may be mostly because of the SSPX. (I don't want to accuse the bishop of bad intentions, that's just how it usually goes. Where the SSPX shows up there it suddenly appears that you can get "permission" for TLM, etc.).
So that people who for some reason attend both rites or out of curiosity will go there for the Traditional Mass will not feel how great the gap is between the "new" teaching and spirituality and the Traditional.
The one gives me a glimpse of something outside our time and space and lifts my soul to it: the other returns me to the world of the supermarket, the car park, trash, grit, the neighbours’ intrusive radio …
My family converted to Catholicism through the Novus Ordo, and we have been deeply blessed by the sacraments offered by NO priests. The Eucharist in the new mass has played a vital role in my spiritual growth. The Novus Ordo is valid and beautiful, offering the same sacrifice as the TLM to more than 98% of Catholics worldwide. Please do not diminish or insult the Mass that many of us grew up with, and through which we have encountered Christ. While I find the TLM to be incredibly beautiful, my heart belongs to the Novus Ordo, as it is the Mass in which I was raised in the faith.
That said, I firmly believe that any instruments other than the organ should be banned in every Catholic Church. Clown masses are essentially sacrilegious, and only bread and wine are the only food that should ever touch the altar. Additionally, any music resembling evangelical Christian tunes should have no place in our Churches. And finally, it would be nice to have some Gregorian chants in our masses.
Sounds like you just have an emotional or nostalgic connection to it.
@@faithful451 Wow. How insensitive of you, I have been baptised into the Church and received our Lord in the Novus Ordo. To diminish my love for it to mere nostalgia is quite insulting.
Yeah for sure my guy, I too was raised in NO and would only just like it to be reformed to have placed in said reform, a high standard, a strict one at that.
My NO I grew up in was more traditional, but has regressed in quality over time due to said lack of standard.
What is your basis for saying the organ should be the only instrument allowed in worship? What (except a preference) makes organs more appropriate for worship? Keep in mind an organ is an expensive instrument which might not be in every church or chapel.
The piano in the NO Mass belongs in a cocktail lounge.
Facts, a lot of congregationalist/Baptist influence with the choice in music.
Some churches obviously can’t afford an organ. I know the parish my sister goes to in the Omaha archdiocese does not have an organ. not even after they built a new church a few years ago.
@ Yeah but even if it’s just a cheaper electric organ or piano, they should still play traditional music, or overall non-cringe charismatic music.
Not even, it’s too corny
The piano isn't the problem it is the it is being used. That being said, for smaller parishes I suggest aquiring a harmonium or continuo organ. Many people are giving them away.
So painful to watch. I am a convert who only attended NO masses for 20 years. I didn't know any different, and I was taught that the NO was just the English translation of the Latin Mass. Once I started attending the TLM and seeing how different it really was, I really can not attend the NO mass.
Also, you picked a random NO mass from NJ, but I have attended NO masses in North Carolina, Maine, New York, and they are all basically the same. There is a common myth that all a person needs to do is find a "reverent" NO mass, but I have never found one.
Painful. I couldn't last three minutes. I ache for want of a TLM closer than a three-hour drive. :/
@ I have to drive 45 one way but I do it gladly. Sorry to hear you don’t have one closer.
We found one in New York (ad orientem; Gregorian chant; kneelers) but it is a longer drive than to our TLM. It is truly a thing of beauty - and I believe if all were said in a similar manner, we would all greatly benefit!
It's nice that both of the Masses you picked are celebrated in rather minimally furnished churches. It shows how much can be done even with limited resources
The SSPX Chapel in my state is in a small house with only an altar, two statues, and a Jesus image on the wall. Yet, they have the most beautiful masses over all the other historic and big parishes.
Oh what we have lost!
Lord God Almighty, King of Heaven and Earth
We pray thee to preserve the Latin Mass in perpetuity as the Saints would recognize it in their day
May it's depth, richness and fullness draw ever more converts and lost Catholics to it's majesty
Heaven on Earth is never closer than during the Mass as it was intended
Please Lord protect it from those that would seek to destroy it
We are unworthy, we have been asleep, but so many are coming to the fullness of the Truth
We beg in your mercy to lift the veil so that those who are blind come to see,
that those who are deaf come to hear,
and those who are in darkness come to know the light which The Mass illumines in the soul
In nomine Jesu Christi, Amen.
Our Lady of Sorrows Pray for Us
Our Lady of Grace Pray for Us
Amen
My hometown parish closest to me is like this NO, but luckily my college one is much more reverent and I enjoy it much more. Will be attending TLM at home from now on.
It would seem that something is fundamentally missing from the novus ordo that is present in the TLM. What that something is i think is the transcendence that a TLM brings one to. A priest i knew a while back said it best about the NO: "The Sacrament is transcendent but the Liturgy is not"
Yes! Exactly. That's how I'm going to describe the N.O. verses the TLM. Thanks!
In my personal experience the constant chatter and noise of the N.O. causes me irritation and raises my level of anxiety. It distracts my mind from prayer and Adoration. With anyone who suffers from PTSD or any other psychological disorder , the N.O. Mass only causes the symptoms to become more exasperated than usual. Unfortunately this is the only Mass that I Have Access to, and even more unfortunate is that it's held in an Anglican Church building.
I understand completely. Try earplugs and stay on your knees and focus on the tabernacle to avoid all of the nonsense. I am 100% on my knees with prayer hands for the whole Liturgy of the Eucharist. No 'grope of peace' or 'touch-down' arms in the air during the Our Father for me. My quiet time with Our Lord after Communion is best accomplished in the parking lot. Such is the state of our times..... :/
Oh, and "offer it up" along-side Our Lady at the foot of Calvary; comfort and shield her from the noise.
@ddoggall I agree with you on every suggestion. However, I was doing these things and my Priest asked me not to do them . But I do continue to kneel every time the Eucharist is elevated And when I receive on my tounge. The NO mass I attended in my village is offered in an Anglican Church with about 18 people so unfortunately I have no Tabernacle to focus on during the Mass . But as you said, "I'll offer it up" in humble obedience Until things in my life change for the better. I believe God currently has me in" The Dark Night of the senses" phase of the Spiritual journey. Which is painful but a Good place to be.
We made our change to a TLM parish when we both had our fingers in our ears after Communion because the organist and cantor appeared to be having a contest about who could be louder! Before we got to our car, my wife said "I can't do this anymore!" - and I immediately agreed.
I am not the only one who brought up the constant taking before, during, and after Mass to our pastor. His response was that church was the only time some of the "older folks" get to visit. I reminded him that I was only weeks away from my 80th birthday and found the vestibule, newly refurbished gathering space, community center, or the diner a short walk away ALL amenable to visiting other parishioners - and that I would like some quiet when visiting our Lord!
The Latin mass is so beautiful, I wish there was one near me in the UK. The No in the UK is not quite like the NO in America, it's more reserved. I pray the Latin Mass will be restored so more people can attend or have the opportunity to attend one.
At the church I attend one of the side chapels is set up for a Latin Mass, I think the priests must say it privately.
I live in the UK and there are TLM Masses in SSPX churches/chapels with Catholic traditional teachings.
@@ewa2524 I know, but they aren't available to all. I thought that would be obvious.
@
Yes, sure, depends where you live in the UK. If it is too far from where you live, maybe you could try to come to their Mass once a month or so.
The Boomeritis is strong with this NO priest
🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a boomer, I know that the problem is that they are old-hippie boomers. There is no talking to them. Sadly, I'm left to wait for the biological solution to take its effect....about ten more years should do it. :/
Lol truuuueeee, it takes them back to their hipster days duuudde.
What has blown my mind as I've talked with people online about the problems in your average Novus Ordo Mass is how many "Pro Novus Ordo" Catholics seem willfully ignorant and defensive of the comparisons being made here. I've posted in comments sections describing the exact things contained in the video on the right side as the kinds of things you can expect if you threw a dart on a map of the USA and went to the closest N.O. parish. I know this for a fact and by experience, because the N.O. parish right next to my house (which I faithfully attend, for various reasons, but likely will not be attending for much longer if I'm being honest) is practically beat-for-beat exactly like this random parish you found for this video; it's also exactly like a similar video Kennedy Hall made a while back; and it's also exactly like many other random parishes you could choose. Seriously, just look up a Novus Ordo parish's masses, if they stream them, here on UA-cam -- try it and see what the overall average trends towards!
But what do I get in the replies to my comments? "I've literally never experienced what you're talking about." "What's the problem with what you described?" "You're being divisive, you sound judgemental." "Well Jesus is still there, so it still counts!" I can only assume that these N.O. commenters have all managed to find the ideal "Novus Ordo Unicorn" and have failed to realize that their experience, by nature of their Mass being colloquially called a "unicorn", is NOT the norm and that they're in a bubble; or alternatively, they're simply ignorant of the problems around them (or, and I don't say this lightly, could be lying), and they are reacting with extreme discomfort because their cognitive dissonance is being pointed out.
Thank you for making this comparison video and for not providing any personal commentary about which Mass is better, I think this could all serve as a very useful resource in the future.
This is very true. I used to attend a unicorn mass before I took the sacrifice of going to the Tridentine Mass, and its nothing like the average NO. Literally every other Novus Ordo Mass I've attended is like the one on the right or worse.
For anyone who has a unicorn mass, ask yourself what Mass gives more glory to God and make the sacrifice to go there. The liturgy is not for us, but is also meant as an act of religion.
Yeah brother, the NO Church I grew up in I would say is more on the traditional side, but because of it's lack of a strict standard to be held onto, it's quality of service has slightly decreased year by year.
It's the lack of standard that has made these Church's masses, even if originally not being too shabby of a worship service, susceptible to these Baptist/Congregationalist influences on the services.
Maybe because a lot of us in fact attend many reverent Novus Ordos frequently all the time. So what you are describing does not match up to observable reality. Yes cringe novus ordos exist, they are too common but its not necessarily the average depending on where you go.
@christopherjohnson9167 OK, well if we're just going to go purely off anecdotes, I've been to several different dioceses all around the USA, and gone to the nearest N.O. parish to the place I was staying at in each location, and every time it was this video's style of irreverent N.O. Mass. It was at varying levels of "cringe" (some were actually done quite competently), but the Mass was still fundamentally the same. Whether or not the Mass is "cringe" really isn't a factor, it's the reverence that is the concern, and the genuine average in regards to the N.O. Mass is an average that is NOT reverent, to the point that the reverent Masses simply start becoming a statistical anomaly. It should not "depend on where you go" on if you're going to get a reverent Mass or not, the fact such a stipulation even needs to be included indicates that there's a serious reverence problem at the average N.O. Parish.
As an attempt at a little more objectivity and relying a little less on anecdotes, there's a site called "reverent Mass finder", which is basically a user-made database of parishes people have attended which don't have irreverent Masses. Run a search for any particular area and see which parishes pop up -- then, compare that result to a Google Maps search of Catholic Churches in that same area. Based on a couple of the searches I did of major cities, there is often, at best, a ratio of 1:3 reverent vs. Non-listed parishes. Of course just because a parish isn't on that website doesn't mean it ISN'T reverent, but again, we're dealing with the average here, and it's obvious that there's a clear trend towards irreverence. I'm glad you have found such a wellspring of reverent Novus Ordo Masses, but statistically I think you're in a much smaller minority than you realize.
After 50 years I believe the Novus Ordo Mass will fade away and the Latin Mass will return. It must
🙏🙏🙏
The largest groups of kids I watched go to the March for Life from my diocese saw almost ALL of them kneel to receive communion, on the tongue.
I think we are seeing an upswing in Reverence.❤
@@kateuli8481 Absolutely agree! We love being surrounded by the many young families with several children in tow at out TLM Mass. To witness these children (as young as 2, 3, 4) kneel, bless themselves, recite so many of the prayers, etc. gives great hope for the future of our Church!
Can’t be called Mass if the ‘priests’ aren’t even validly ordained priests. "When you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains"
Great video. Thank you!
Honestly (I go both to TLM & NO) the music in the NO one was fine for me, I get what you mean, it seems protestant, can't tell the difference, plus boomer, but the singers were good, I've been to some churches (of course I'm speaking of NO) and ...an issue with churches is wanting to be so nice and welcoming that they forget sometimes it's important to have standards... and my point is I went to one and other than being one of the few younger people, the singing of the "choir" was such that I felt like I was listening to a cat being strangled or nails on a chalkboard... not kidding, I was in the mass and it was a struggle as it was due to the boomer atmosphere, but then the "music" felt for me like I was doing penance and it was painful and I was just like... clearly there are people who want to sing but cannot and should NOT be in a music group with access to a microphone!!! You can sing to your hearts content in the pews and not be in tune... but if it's so unpractised and shabby (the group was all over the place too) and out of tune to the point those attending feel like it's a punishment (on top of the unappealing boomer elements!) ...I was just like ... I'm here fulfilling my Sunday obligations (I couldn't go to the TLM that week, and the local Polish one was not in the correct timeslot), but I was thinking, no wonder it's empty ... esp of young, don't have those problems in the other ones... plus boomer NO priests in the west ... hashtag not all... sure many are nice people... but most are out of touch and some are just ex hippies and brought the lefty woodstock paganism with them :/
Anyway, my point was... the singers in the NO one were good... they could sing, it was nice tunes/songs and relaxing and they were passionate and talented... I've been in ones like the one I described above... that's why I described that experience... phew.
The One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church will return. It’s always darkest before the dawn but light is visible on the horizon.
Honestly , there is a Methodist church that broadcasts locally and it is indiscernible from these New Order mass clips.
Take heart, the average age of the video on screen right is the average age of the fox news audience...That era in the church is dying out.
The trouble with this comparison is that it is the best of TLM with a poor Novus Ordo. Back in the day half of latin masses were gabbled by priests with a rudimentary grasp of latin. A Novus Ordo mass celebrated with incense well trained servers, extraordinary ministers when circumstances demand, and ad orientam if possible is very dignified reverent and spiritual. I have no problem with the TLM but let's not use it as a weapon to divide the church.
In all honesty, the misnomer that the Priests back in the day did not know Latin in an insane take. All Seminaries in the west had all their dogmatic and moral theology classes in Latin, and had to have scholastic disputation in Latin weekly over highly complex theological topics. When ministers said mass sloppily, they were often disciplined by their superiors or the local bishop. Most of the bad stories were here today are from "boomers" who did not like the Church to begin with.
The NO on the other hand wether said reverently or not has theological deficiencies in it.
One is worship, the other isn’t.
I love my N.O. preist and deacons who helped me become Catholic last year in RCIA. I love the community too and I've been volunteering at the parish for the Confirmation classes for High Schoolers. I've been going to the TLM since last November and I can't get enough of it. The N.O. isn't going away but it does need a serious reform.
Why reform it? Would it not be better to move back to the TLM?
@@authorityfigure1630
The 70’s Hippies won’t reform the NO. In their mind, any reform is a rejection of the Council Documents.
They would rather see an empty Church than admit they were horribly wrong.
The only reform it needs is to be held to a higher standard, and be stricter on that standard instead of having loose interpretations on relatively lax standards.
@@authorityfigure1630 The main reason is to have it in English for understanding, but of course have it still reverant. And not that it can't even have some latin thrown in there, but most of it being in English I think would be a good compromise for people outside the Church to not be ignorant of the worship taking place as well, which I've heard complaints from people even in my local community express their issues with these Latin based masses.
@@ancapgrandscribe9546 ehh I get the sentiment you’re putting forth but I lean more towards “mass isn’t a Bible study and it isn’t where you get catechised” I think the Novus Ordo should be suppressed and eventually phased out judging from the fruits of it since it’s been implemented. Better Catechesis and Catholics reading scripture will fix the issues you’re concerned with.
This video proves how crucial music is to the experience of the mass, because it can be very deceptive. The NO mass shown in this video may be what's considered average in the US, in Europe, at least in the country that I live, the average NO mass plays the ORGAN... which makes the mass SEEM a lot more reverent than it actually is. Everything else, though, is the same: the priest is reduced to a mere animator, and the mass hinges on his charisma. And ofc you have, among other things, lay people (incl. women!) hand out the Holy Eucharist. It's an aberration once you've gotten to know the TLM.
While a well sung high mass is majestic I feel low mass is even more powerful sometimes as it's mostly silent. Just me and God.
Thank God for Marcel Lefebvre and all who helped him keep the TLM alive! Hope he will be canonized once the whole church returns to Tradition.
Thank you! Thats exactly what I experiened at several churchs on both sides!!!! I CHOOSE THE CHURCH JESUS GAVE US ...I WEEPEX IN SORROW WHEN I EXPERIENCED THE SIFFERENCE.
To be fair, there are some Novus ordo churches that DO use the organ. I grew up in one. The rare time we had someone play a guitar was when The at the time organist, who was elderly, had the day off. We had daily school mass Monday through Friday. And it was my religious sister teacher with a habit that played the guitar at mass, and that was maybe once a month at most. Now they have a younger organist who is a mother of several of the students that go to the school and she’s also the music teacher I think she’s still the regular school Mass organist at least. And I think I remember hearing a harp or a flute. I go to the Low mass now at a fssp chapel.
What's funny is that when you see the title, you know exactly which Mass was going to be bad.
The NO "hymns" would probably be GREAT around the campfire at church camp.
If you’re a prot heretic…then yes.
@@T.Truthtella-n8u I mean so long as they're not Heretical then that's fine
The one on the left reminds me of my current parish. 👍🏻 The one on the right reminds me of all of my past parishes, including the one that is literally 1 mile from my home. 👎🏻
That NO priest is just a performer. The whole thing is soul destroying
Pray for his soul!!!
Don't know about soul destroying, but definitely uninspiring and cringe.
Opening Orthodox Divine Liturgy:
Diacon: "FATHER BLESS"
Priest: "BLESSED IS THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT NOW AND EVER AND UNTO AGES OF AGES. AMEN
People make the sign of the Cross and make a prostrations.
Do you have a suggested reading list?
I need to make one. Do you have a particular subject in mind?
@@thetraditionalthomist introduction to traditional Catholic theology
@@thetraditionalthomist I’ve caught a couple of your suggestions(The Catholic Controversy, Controversies of the Christian Faith)through livestreams. I also remember you saying you had some books to suggest to the guest from The Catholic Convert on the TLM. I’m a fairly new convert. So understanding the church’s history and traditions better would be great.
@@thetraditionalthomist I would like a reading list of the Homilies of the Church Fathers.
@@Mommabear34 I see. Ok, I would recommend the following. Firstly, read a Good Traditional Catholic Catechism. For instance "The Catechism Explained". For the Mass issue I would recommend "The Problem of the Liturgical Reform" by the SSPX. For the Crisis, I would read "Open Letter to Confused Catholics" by Archbishop Lefebvre and "The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church" by the SSPX. I would also seek out an SSPX chapel in your area to go to. IF there are none, try and find a TLM. Hope this helps. Pray the Rosary everyday, abstain from Meat on Friday, go to confession once a week, and practice virtue. You are in my prayers.
I think that the TLM should be reformed, adding readings and the Deprecatio Gelasi.
Welcome to this communal celebration of the Eucharist. Today is the 6 millionth Sunday in ordinary time. Please stand for the entrance hymn, one bread on body, found in your breaking bread hymnal on page 666. Please stand
Fr fr
Diabolical 😂
ALLLL OUR WELCOME IN THIS PLACEEEEE, ugghh, gets stuck in my head everytime my NO Church plays it.
I always wondered why many NO parishes always start with this kind of announcement, when the liturgy was meant to be itself self-explanatory, no guesswork or mystery anymore. I hate when I have to travel and I get it - my ability to immerse myself into prayer is already kneecapped at minute 0 when I’m told this.
Erm, this side by side comparison is skizmatikk
2:34 ...I'm sorry, did he actually just say, "...on earth peace to people of good will. (No, no-oh, no)." ???🤦♂️
Ya... * sigh * 🤦
I've been to both, and neither was like this. The TLM I attend is silent. The NO I attend doesn't have silly music (thankfully.)
The TLM you go to then is a Low Mass. I would not go to the NO.
Miss... .👏 🙏🙏🙏
Traditional Latin mass, ordinariate mass, or eastern Divine liturgy. That’s it.
They’re not even comparable.
Woah, i live in Brazil and i've never seen a Novus Ordo that irreverent
Hey Nick, check out Church of the Nativity in Timonium, MD.
Billions must attend the Novus Ordo
I cannot even think of going to a NO Mass again. It is so painful, even if it is a unicorn NO.
I feel you. I went to a NO last Saturday for first Saturday mass, it was terrible to say the least. The priest made his procession like he was a celebrity walking to the stage. I struggled throughout the mass.
@briankenome I struggle greatly as well, so much so that for me to go, it becomes a great occasion to sin. Even if the priest isn't acting or like a celebrity wannabe, the guitar music, the singers all distorting and contorting their faces with their eyes closed like they are on stage at a rock concert, the female lectors, the lifting up of the palm to signify that we are to sing the response to the psalm, the horrible and extremely paltry chanting that takes the place of true Chant, everyone assuming the orans position at the Our Father, the Masonic handshake, the Protestantized praise and worship singing of the songs and the parts of the Mass, the much less than lustre homily where one hears nothing of the teachings of our Faith, but are ramblings based on pop psychology with stressed analogies and horribly pithy misquotes from other religions. Yeah, I have an extremely hard time. Even if I position myself at the very back, people stare at me then give themselves space from me because I kneel during the anaphora, I respond in Latin, I refuse the handshake, I stay kneeling from the Lamb of God onwards. And after, since by this point I couldn't even go receive Communion, I try to make a spiritual communion, but there is no peace inside. I want to get up and run out of there so fast.
same, went to NO my whole life up until 3 and a half years ago, since then I've gone to TLM exclusively and watching this video gave me major ptsd lol.
That’s rough 😬
If you think this video belittles those who go to the new mass, you clearly think the Old Mass is better than the New Mass, because all this video is doing is comparing an average High Mass to an average Novus Ordo Mass side by side.
Maybe I'm spoiled but the average Novus Ordo where I live is nothing like that. I've been to 3 different ad orientem Novus Ordo masses this week at 3 different churches. I'm not trying to negate any point made by this video as I'm on your side, I just think you chose a particularly bad example. Again, I have no idea how it is other places though. And, before anyone says it, yes I'm aware that you would argue that there are inherent deficiencies in the Novus Ordo even when it's celebrated very reverently. I think that's up for debate, and I would argue for the "reverent Novus Ordo"
The priests who are celebrating the novus ordo missae are supposedly following what the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) has said.
I'm so sad when saw some priests who not being strict about the liturgy especially the Holy Mass. I think maybe they should celebrate the novus ordo missae in ad orientam.
1. Using the Mass on the right as a means of condemning the NO in itself is disingenuous. If you want to put blame on certain pastors and bishops for this sort of thing, fine, but it isn't fundamentally ingrained in the liturgy. My diocese has very little of it and nothing comparable.
2. While the sights and sounds of a TLM might appear to be more aesthetically reverent than some NOs, aesthetics don't determine liturgical validity. Also, contrary to internet Catholic belief, every Mass prior to VII wasn't some solemn affair like the average TLM is today. I sometimes go to a low TLM in a little chapel near me. To the non-Catholic, it wouldn't appear to be much different in reverance to the NO at the main church across the street.
3. It's ironic how SSPX members and other schismatics refer to themselves as traditional Catholics when there is absolutely nothing traditional about going to a Mass that Rome has declared illicit. Same goes for all the clergy bashing that the so-called traditionalists like to engage in. If you want to talk about tradition, clergy bashing has traditionally been a Protestant sport.
I agree with everything you said. The schismatics are scumming themselves. What is worst is that they do not even notice that they are schismatics and that they do not respect the authority of the church. You explained it brilliantly. And truly, with the horrors spoken here, it's no wonder they were banned. With all the shortcomings and changes in NO, they are again completely out of step with Jesus. Nicely said. 🙏🙏🙏
I call that a “K-Love Mass.”
As a Byz. Cath. I'm definately chosing TLM over NO
If the suit fits.. but... Our Lord does not find pleasant a Mass celebrated in rebellion or excommunication. Christ is as present as present as in the Traditional Latin Rite (TLR) as in the New one. Nevertheless, the TLR is the pinnacle of worship of God.
Can we say it makes no sense why leadership would sabotage and disparage their own history, tradition, and Latin
identity...unless they don't like it and they actually reject it. If that's the case, then how can we we trust them now? What they're demanding, the current novelty, as being sacred and honored may just be rejected in the future. That's the problem with neglecting and rejecting tradition... if it's not sacred and to be revered, who is to say the current liturgy is?
They are completely different. Thanks for sharing. God bless!
The NO is so Protestant and loud.
This is not the average NO and the SSPX is not in communion with the church
What you said about the SSPX is false.
Roman Commission Ecclesia Dei has officially stated that the SSPX is not Schismatic and is in the Church. So your wrong.
If they read the comments and in general on youtube, be sure that you are going to a sect and schism. How long will it be allowed, with this kind of rhetoric and mockery of the church, I don't think for long.
Yeah I’m not sure this is every Novus Ordo… definitely quite a bit maybe not totally average
TLM = BASED
I love my Novus Ordo Mass here in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia. It is nothing like this. My three Priests are very reverent & devout.
Regarding these two, the TLM is true worship of our almighty God. This NO seems more into putting on a show.
Novus Ordo in Asia and Africa are not like the clown mass on the right side.
This is confirmation of my worst fears--Traditionalists who want the Latin Mass and Communion rails to be the ONLY Mass allowed, even for those of us who want the Mass to remain in English, and with Communion in the hand. I will be a totally alienated and left behind Catholic if people like the traditionalthomist get their way. I will be left behind, but something tells me that Traditionalists won't care, because they feel that Catholics like me are "heretics" and they have no love in their hearts for Novus Ordo Catholics like me.
Schism😱😲🤔🤕🙏🙏🙏
Any videos on Saint Pius X society?
Our 'new mass' where I attend is very reverent and not like this one shown in New Jersey.
What many people may need to understand is that civilisation and culture change over time.
When American culture became the de facto world culture, the pressure on the Catholic Church to adapt to change was irresistible.
Americanism is the protestantisation of Catholicism via the consciousness changing shift brought on by the whole American experiment in governance. The USA is a Protestant culture. So the Universal Church, under pressure of the change in the whole world brought on by American Protestantism, reflects this cultural shift in philosophical thinking.
This is at odds with Catholicism, but Protestant thinking has overtaken the Church in the modern world.
The teachings of the Catholic Church are eternal and the 'Gates of hell will never prevail against it'.
We must never forget that The Catholic Church is the one, true church of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour.
I disagree greatly with the new modernist Church which appears to be Protestant. Protestantism and other forms of judaizing is anathema to the Catholic faith. This fight needs to be resolved with both/and thinking and not the either/or happening now.
I pray daily that the new mass and radical thinking in Rome at the moment gets purged, that the TLM is allowed to continue, and all masses are made to be reverent. But you cannot either follow the Latin Mass right out of the Church. Amazingly the TLM risks becoming a 'protest' (protestant) sect itself! Schism is a real thing. I say allow both but eradicate the irreverent 'pop' liturgies.
The Catholic Church is more real and true than Eastern Orthodoxy because while Orthodoxy never changes, it fails to reflect the reality of the movement of time. (St Augustine) This is the danger of some of the current TLM movements.
Since Catholicism and even Christianity no longer dominate culture in the power centres of the world we are no longer in the same world as when the Church was the centre and developed the TLM.
Yet there is no doubt the TLM has retained something essential, core and important. I disagree greatly with the chauvinism of some of the traditionalists that claim the new mass isn't valid and isn't Catholic and is even sinful. It is time for a massive reform in the liturgy in the Catholic Church. I appreciate the uploader claims he doesn't mean to belittle the Catholics who have found their faith in new mass parishes.
To be honest that is nearly all that is available to Catholics today.
Looking forward to the series. I would like to see however some efforts towards a happy medium.
I don't understand nor speak Latin. It's easy to romanticize the Latin mass, however kneeling in the pews, if you don't feel the presence of the Lord, that is the bigger problem. I go to the "average" mass and have been to the Latin. The chants are great, however, it's the presence of the Lord in the tabernacle and the eucharist, which is important.
My experience attending the TLM and the NO has been nothing like the versions presented in this video.
This is like going to a classic car show and noticing that the cars are nicer than the ones you saw in a random parking garage.
It is called "selection bias"
You are comparing something done by over a billion people, with no specific motive VS
Something done by small community for specific reasons.
A fair comparison would be:
The average mass in let's say 1959 VS
The average mass today.
The truth is abuse is abuse, and liturgy is done by the people. Guitar masses, clown masses etc. are a product of Boomers, Sexual Revolution and so on. Do you really think updating a missal is what caused these things? But we know from history that many Protestant denominations struggled with the same problems in their services, in the same cultures, at the same time.
Was it Rome that caused Protestants to suddenly have guitars at their services?
People really claiming you are going to hell if you don't go to Latin mass. Show me that in scripture..... the Latin mass was not even organized until the protestant heresy. I don't hate the Latin mass at all, however to claim hell for those who go to NO mass is a liar.
Lie i agree with you.
Walking down the aisle with the Bible : LOOK AT US PROTS LOOK HOW MUCH WE LOVE THE BIBLE.
Prots and Catholics Last 40 years: “that’s cool, but we’re bouncing to the local mega church that has Comfy theatre seats, muffins, coffee and rock band concerts! Plus Pastor Steve is cool, he wears skinny jeans!”
How do you feel about TLM at ICKSP or FSSP parishes? I know some people almost refuse to even attend those and only exclusively SSPX.
The Mass itself is perfect because it is the Traditional rite. I am very thankful that those orders give pastoral care to millions of Catholics. That being said, I do think the groups (on paper) have issues, because they don't see any issues with the NO or the Council. That being said, I dont think they are evil men, and if they were the only TLM around I would go. I hope that makes sense.
@ Yeah man that makes sense and I actually agree with that. But I feel like some of them secretly don’t agree with the NO or the council but just don’t say anything in hopes that they don’t get labeled schismatic or whatever else.
@@thetraditionalthomist I’m sure they see issues. What they don’t do is speak out or be critical. The charity of St. Francis de Sales. If you cannot say anything charitable then don’t say anything - comes to
mind.
@@thetraditionalthomist"on paper" is correct. I know FSSP priests who have grave issues with the NO.
@@TradCatholicWoman
Hopefully, they’re never forced to offer the New Mass. if it happened, I doubt even half would cave in.
As for the Council Documents - Sometimes I wonder if Pope Francis has even read them. He violates them more than anyone.
The feminist NO is repulsive
Very blessed to have a TLM near me in the Arlington diocese at St Ritas that I will raise my (new) family in.
The Tridentine Latin Mass has been changed so many times it isn't funny. The current 1962 changes really bring the Mass down from its 1950 and 1917 changes. It's still good but not as great as the 1917 changes. It is far from the September 1783 "Victory Mass" said in Philadelphia shortly after the Treaty of Paris was signed, ending the American Revolution. It is not connected to Columbus's "Discovery Mass" in 1492, which was a pre-Tridentine Mass. The New Order Mass has its roots in the earliest forms of the Mass. Read The Didache. Both of the samples you use for this video are not great. The great commonality in both these Masses is the Consecration - the Miracle of Transubstantiation stays the same.
This was absolutely painful. But sooooo striking in showing how the TLM and the NO share no resemblance; they are like different religions. Brought back terrible memories.
The Catholic Church completely became protestant.
As a TLM Catholic, every Catholic on both sides would be happy with this reform: 1. Ad orientum. 2. Gregorian chant. 3. Mass in the vernacular. 4. Altar rails. We don’t go to TLM because it’s in Latin. We go despite that.
Ceremonies Used in the Administration of the Sacraments, as taught in The Roman Catechism of Trent.
To (the matter and form) are added certain ceremonies. These cannot be omitted without sin,
unless in case of necessity; yet, if at any time they be omitted, the Sacrament is not thereby
invalidated, since the ceremonies do not pertain to its essence. It is not without good reason that
the administration of the Sacraments has been at all times, from the earliest ages of the Church,
accompanied with certain solemn rites.
There is, in the first place, the greatest propriety in manifesting such a religious reverence to the
sacred mysteries as to make it appear that holy things are handled by holy men.
Secondly, these ceremonies serve to display more fully the effects of the Sacraments, placing
them, as it were, before our eyes, and to impress more deeply on the minds of the faithful the
sanctity of these sacred institutions.
Thirdly, they elevate to sublime contemplation the minds of those who behold and observe them
with attention, and excite within them faith and charity.
To enable the faithful, therefore, to know and understand clearly the meaning of the ceremonies
made use of in the administration of each Sacrament should be an object of special care and
attention.
Makes me so thankful in my area I have 4-5 very Rev No and an ICKSP Oratory within 40 minutes.
Im someone studying and inquiring both orthodoxy and catholicism whos convinced on everything that is mutually agreed upon by the two. 4 years ago when my studies began i made this commitment: if i accept the literal presence of christ in the eucharist and not just a symbol or a spiritual presence, then i will NEVER attend a typical novus ordo.
Night and day
Sir, why even do this? No matter how much you say it doesn’t put one Holy Mass over the other, it really, really does. Please be honest with yourself. It’s already so damaging that you put this on a public platform. The result, division. Holy Spirit wisdom would reveal this to you. The Holy Spirit is grieved by division. God sees the sincerity and cleanliness of heart in the offering of the Mass, any Holy Mass. I am myself more drawn to traditional hymns etc, but dare not judge another’s sacrifice. I pray this ugly, self-righteous, spiritual pride will just stop. Do you comprehend that the. Catholic Church is universal? You want the Catholic people in Asia and Africa where the church is thriving most, to learn Latin. Have a huge, beautiful pipe organ, when they can barely afford to buy food for their families. Please. This displeases God and we will have to answer for all our actions and harmful words and intentions.
I'm not gonna pretend that I'm an expert on Catholicism, liturgy or even a good catholic, but the new mass has a strong protestant and cheap sentimentality vibe, like they are trying way too hard to make you feel something.
I get it they they're were trying to communicate and bring the believers close to the liturgy and faith, but the novus ordo is way too mundane and kinda turns away from the divine and it's beauty
exactly
In Tennessee here. I’ve been to 20 churches here in TN and a number in Georgia. I’ve never seen a Novus ordo like the ones you’ve pictured.