Adding Color the Outdoor Cement Scenery on our Garden Railroad
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Last fall we finished the cement (mortar) scenery on our outdoor railroad. And the final step was adding color and waterproofing. And then we waited for snow...
And the snow came. And more came... And still more. As of a few hours ago we now have the most snow on record here. Over 740 inches (18.8 meters) in the mountains. And it's still snowing.... ANYWAY, that's a good test for our scenery.
NOW, we used several techniques in different areas as a test. And two of the areas came through great. Several areas lost their color. One area totally failed, the cement cracked and failed. So a good test? We think so. We now know what works and what doesn't.
Take a look...
#gardenrailroad #gscale #modelrailroad
Hi Guys,
As a old concrete truck driver. There’s a product called concrete die that will soak into any concrete comes in liquid and powder forms. You can get that maybe Menards or home Improvement Center, but I also know that they for sure they carry it at the concrete plants or they can tell you where to get it.
Larry
Thanks!!!!! Going to try several ways to use that. Score!!
Okay, Al. Here's my two cents about. Think about material you're working with, it's mortar mix. Visit your local home improvement store in the flooring department. On the wall with the with the various mortar mixers there will be various dried mortar pigments. They are made for using with the mortar. There's a wide pallet of Earth colors along with everything else. Use those as your colorant for the mortar. You can make up a pallet of dry powder and put it on or you can mix it with water and a spray bottle and spray it on and wash it wash it in and let it set it should should stay in your rock work and with a little diligence you'll get your natural look that you're looking for. Another old-fashioned technique is to use India ink from Michaels. You can regarding various colors we thought it besides black. From memory there are browns and reds and greens and blues and also pretty colors that you can mix and then mixed with alcohol and then wash it on with your spray bottle. Back in the day when I was working on the hobby shop layout with you at the clubwe were trying to model Yosemite valley and have the same issues we work with latex we worked with rock we work with plaster Paris and ran into the all the same issues that you had to deal with. It was always a trial and error.
Everytime I look at your rock work I m amazed at how beautiful it is I'm sitting here in my hospital bed feeling your frustration. Hope one of the techniques works and you can show that in your next video on your layout work. Picturing all this in my mind's eye and thinking that it's all going to come together and you're going to be happy with it and everybody is going to be fighting to tour your layout instead of going out to the valley and see the see the color outdoors for everybody else.
When I lay here and look at what you're doing and I get all frustrated cuz I know I can't reach out and tell you exactly when I'm 90 could work so we got all the years have I experienced that I've had in being a hobby shop manager picking up all the tips that I picked up over the years just look at you and wish that we could sit down and just tossed back a couple brews and see what I can do to help you. Funny thing but laying here in the hospital bed is no whole lot else to do so I go into my mind's eye and build my own way out and work on my models and amazed at what Karyn does. You're truly a lucky man. Treasure that lady she's a great partner. Should you ever want to send me any messages my email is to 244tl o c o @ anytime you have a question just email me and I'll be glad to give you answers . And anybody else in twin NTV world has questions I don't mind answering those.
Hi!! Gee sorry to hear you are laid up… Damn. 😢 yup we are trying many different things. Not in the video Rit dye. Sort of works. We are going to go to using the mortar color. I want non uniform color. But adding a second color after mixing the first color. And dye. And paint… and?? But the color on hot fry mortar works. Why one part of the mortar failed??? But only that one small area. Another issue. The bitumen in the roofing gives off an acid that is attacking the mortar and rails. But the drains keep the water (acid) off the rails. And the mortar is fine as failure looks fine! It’s stonework. Not smooth concrete. Anyway when it stops snowing (July?) we will be back at it. Stay well!!!!! Give ‘em hell.
July... Lol. Here in the PNW where I'm at they're calling for snow April 2nd, 3rd and 4th, so I think you're correct. We sure could use some of that "Global Warming" right about now. 🙄
I watched the video and then started reading the comments, when I started reading yours I fell in to it and read every word. I'm approaching half a century I'm too busy, too poor and have no place to do any modeling. In my youth I did lots and lots of model cars and trucks. Between my birthday in September and and Christmas I could keep myself busy all year long. Oh Lord I miss those days. Although my life was miserable I could escape in my models. Pretending I had my own custom auto shop and all the cool guys came to me to build their hot rods. Between that and my dog is probably how I made it through the 5th to the 8th grades. School was worse than going to hell, and other kids were so cruel some I swore were possessed. As I got older that went away going to work occupied my time and my mind. Then I started a family and that took all my time. I'll bet you are the coolest cat in town. I know it would be a blast to hang around you and listen to story after story. I miss my Granddads so much for just that very reason.
I've forgotten how late that the snows come. I remember a snow in late April back East when I was a kid.
Looking forward to your next video today.
Thanks for keeping my spirits up, my friends.
You might want to look into concrete stain , if you have a white cap in your area they should be able to hook you up.
Looks great .I think it's the fun part of building the lay out . Have a good week
Thanks, you too!
We always learn from are mistakes and move on to the next one.😂
It is going to be beautiful when all done with the right stuff. The adventures in out door railroading keeps you busy. Thank you for showing us the good and bad so we can learn too. Have a great day see you Tuesday.
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
Thanks. Yup. I never get upset when a project goes wrong. Well…… almost never. Because the second greatest part of the project is the building. The best is the learning. The third best is the pride of success. Stay happy.
Great video as usual. Sure want to see the mine inside! Always interesting.
Hi Ken. Do check the community tab. I have some mine photographs up. And… oh heck I’ll put a few new ones up right now.
It makes it look more natural and real Dale I think it looks great 👍
Hi again! Thank you! Yup keeping the failed parts. Mostly. Just need to still add colors.
I've done lots of faux rock work on columns for houses and around pool features that have waterfalls etc.. I use watered down latex paint (flat) and use about four different colors (black for seams and depth, usually a grey, and brown's to suit the native habitat.) I brush in the crevaces first for depth and even will add some moss green for effect and mix paints on the rock, all while wet to get a good effect. A quart of latex is relatively cheap, can be applied with spray bottle of brush, and soaks into the mortar. It will require some touch up each year, but it's very easy to do.
What I had to do I bought some cement diy .go to a cement place to get the diy . Now you may still use it .
Hope my suggestions help. As far as getting my heat in. Order, I'm doing my best. Tomorrow is a heart cath to see what's there. Today was a breakthrough day. I walked 3 steps unaided.
I caused this all myself. Bad diet, poor nutrition, no exercise. Aka: DUMB! Paying the piper.
I guess I'm an armchair model railroader now, which is ik. I can't afford anything else for now.
Getting ready for tomorrow. Know that things will be alright.
Keep em rolling, Al, and thanks for all your beautiful video .
You didn’t cause it. Anything can happen. It’s an odds game. You can do everything right and have a heart attack. Or do everything wrong and live to 100. It’s odds. Your at most challenging the odds.
It is not soaking in because the mortar is already saturated with water. IF you do it when it is dry you may have more success. You guys seem to get around, Where, exactly is 3985 & 5511? Your color is good, looks like Utah or western Wyoming BUT the striations are not correct, Horizontal cuts, breaks, shears but not big vertical ones. Some of your stone work look very real and other parts, like one brick near the tunnel, looks like a brick because it is shiny. Mix your color into the mortar. Look at a photo of the cliffs along route in western Wyoming.
3985 and 5511 got sold to the same people who own Milwaukee 261 and they are now at the big shop building
Wrong answer. 3985 and 5511 are at the Railroad Heritage of Midwest America in Silvis IL.
Steve and the crew at Railway Heritage Center have started the restoration of 3985. Started tear down about 8 weeks ago. They are VERY well funded. And have an even better shop than UP. Ed and UP wanted assurances that the locomotives would be rebuilt and the funding was in place before closing the deal. There are a few significant problems with 3985. But anything can be fixed. Hopefully 3985 will be back on the rails in less than 6 years.
@@ToyManTelevision I would like to thank you for your reply. Nice to know there is a well-equipped shop other than UP. Does that locomotive still belong to UP or is this a real give-away. If 4014 is down for any kind of service, Ed not has no replacement. It leaves him with only one small engine. Historic though 8444 may be, it is still only a very common 4-8-4 and far less impressive engine than 3985. Take care, good luck with the coloration. Yes, color put into the mortar is likely your best bet.
UP needed two locomotives for May 10 2019. Golden Spike 150 year anniversary. Because 3985 needed so much work they restored 4014. So they do have two huge locomotives. One 4014 the worlds largest operating locomotive.
The color is added to the raw fresh wet mix in the beginning. Try contacting a Disneyland landscaper/ builder.
I was thinking the same thing.. And funny thing, I went on the Disneyland Careers site the other day and guess what they were hiring for? Brush artists and Stainers! No kidding!
I have used wood stain on cement. I brushed it on the footings for the fence post that were up against a flower bed so the cement would look more like a rock or even soil. At first it worked, but yes eventually it wears off.
Dear Dale and Karyn, I was wondering how you were going to the coloring.
Anyhow, if and when you’re going to make new rocks, try pigments added to the cement mixture. Especially for red roof tiles and the old fashioned way of mounting the capping tiles, cement was often colored with a red pigment. In Dutch this stuff was called ‘Doodekop’ translated deadhead, for the cadmium coloring. That product has disappeared for safety reasons. Now, the wholesale stores sell pigments which are comparable to artist’s pigments, safer to use, and way cheaper, because they’re sold in much larger containers. Disadvantage of the pigment use outside is that they may be prone to weather influences.
For coloring grey cement after it dried, you may have to look at dispersal primers. This will improve the way the paint will stick to the cement. Maybe you can even try to add and mix your paints to a dispersal fluid. Although you shouldn’t go too thick, because it will take away the soak-in capacity of the dispersal fluid.
Hope this helps, cheerio
Thanks!!! We will be testing some “new” (old) ideas when the sun returns. Added color to the mix… water based die and stain over hot and dry mortar. That worked well by the portal.
Ow next time put some port land cement with the mortar .That's what I had to do .seem to work pretty good .
Thanks for the tip
Pretty cool hard work for the scenery outdoors. I am planning on returning to the Nevada Northern Railway Museum in Ely, Nevada sometime in April 2023 soon. I maybe will likely see Nevada Northern 81 in operation there.
Your trail & error really paid off.
Thanks!!!
Well, perhaps you can add modelling rock slides to your resume.... Amazing amount of patience and knowledge applied to determine what works outside.
Well Mother Nature says hills and cliffs should fall down. And then n fact they do. Right on the track. On the main line or in the backyard. The key is 1. Make sure the colors are good looking. 2. Clean the debris off the track. Just a bit. Cause as long as the color is good it looks GREAT.
Great vidio guys, like the progression from fall work to spring results. Having done masonry as a living ill sugest you put mortar coloring into your mix , pick a color. I've always used a brown in my plaster so if it chipped just dirt not bright white. I'll sugest a mortar color spray mix to fix your gray spots. Its something i would do to fix a chimney job. Stuff will stain your hands bad. Thanks for the home coffee...
Thanks!!! I just tested Rit dye. Interesting. Soaks in in places. Not in others. But interesting. The key is going to be coloring the grey white mortar first!
Yep mortar dye is about 1 cup per mixer load so very potent stuff. Get at masonry store.
It strikes me that the mortar is designed to repel water. Under that circumstance you would need to add the color while your mixing the mortar. And do any coloring before the mortar has a chance to dry.
I've never done this, just watched you guys.
Thx again
That’s the new plan.
Greetings Mr toy man, greetings Mrs toy lady well if you want to keep all your colours they way they are and will protect them. You could put spray with a clear Matt finish of Polly. I can’t think of the proper name but here in Australia we use it. I used to spray over my buildings outside on my Railway, protect them from the Weather and it works but if you want to do something different, go down to your home depo and buy yourself, a tarp laid over the top of that, and they’re protected from the rain and the snow, and you’ll still keep your colours in your border. Looking good. Mr toy man looking good yours Jeff, Melbourne, Australia
G’day mate. Yup did that. But the clear comes off as well. And I LOVE THE LOOK with snow on the railroad. Even run in the snow when conditions are tight and the mood hits. Which happens about twice a year. Or less… anyway we fear no maintenance! So all good.
@@ToyManTelevision Thank you Mr toy man and Mrs toy lady thank you forgetting back to me unfortunately some people on channel when you comment I don’t bother getting back to you and you feel that it’s a waste of time commenting on certain things specially when it comes to due scale Railway I enjoy working on my Railway and I I know maintenance takes up a lot but that’s the joys of model trains in the backyard at the moment my Railway is looking good as I said it’s 1 m off the ground no more crawling around on the dirt trying to put rolling stock together and all that because I turn 70 tomorrow and I’m not in the mood for crawling Yours Jeff Rosebud Melbourne Victoria Australia thank you PS sometimes about 10% of your channel can be a bit boring especially when you did those articles on gauges and scale I’m not a smart man I got totally lost a time so I figured the best way out is just enjoy the Trains it was Jeff thank you
you could try Indian ink it is water proof when dry. You can get different colors of Indian ink. It soaks into and stains good, Your layout is really looking good. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the tip! I’m also using Rit dye. Seems to sort of work.
Dale, The next time you do this with morter mix add your color into the wet cement 1st! You can buy the dry powder color at the hardware store of any color you want! I used to live in Sedona and wanted to make red stepping stones! That's how to get the stone work look real!! Cured plain old cement is not porous to allow anything to soak in!!!
Thanks for the tip! That’s the plan going forward.
@@ToyManTelevision-😇.
I would look into how they color the rocks and mountains in Disneyland and Disney World also there are companies that make lightweight rocks that are colored and they look lifelike 👍🏻🚂
They use outdoor latex house paint. Diluted about 2:1. On warm dry cement. But about 20 different colors blended. So it’s not uniform. And even a pint costs about $25. So we were looking for a more affordable option. Thinking the house paint is the best. Just expensive.
I just watched the most recent Ask This Old House (on the PBS App 0 Episode 16, Season 21) and the last segment was their master painted going out to a home where the paint was peeling off the cement foundation, which rose about 3-feet above the ground. Long story short, he used a paint that is for cement and can withstand all kinds of weather abuse, including snow. It is very thick. However, even though your paint project on the scenery is down and looks great, if it doesn’t hold up maybe you should look into this. You could apply a base background coat of a natural color (tan, a light reddish-brown) that the paint store could mix for you. Then once that is fully dried and cured you could paint in the details with an exterior grade paints. Just buy those sample jars that again they will mix for you in any color. I think that would make for a much longer lasting result.
Thanks! We have several ideas to test if IT EVER STOPS SNOWING!! Thanks.
@@ToyManTelevision Yep, for us it’s cold rain and in Orange County, CA where “winter” is usually 2-3 weeks. We’ve been going on 4 months with 25 inches of rain since Jan 1 - A “normal” year is about 12!
I used deluded house paint on my concrete , worked fine
That’s the best. That’s what they use at Disneyland. But it’s expensive to get about 5 or more colors. But that’s the gold standard.
Winters still here Dale, we got a snow storm in Roy.
Yup. When it stops snowing (July?) we are back at it.
For your base color I would add cement/concrete dye to the mortar mix. With the dyes there is a whole pallet of colors to work with.
Water getting in the mortar with the freeze-thaw cycles raises hell with it. I have no idea how you would seal the water out so this doesn't happen and still keep the detail.
As long as the mortar is colored breaking may be fine. And when needed, I can repair it.
@@ToyManTelevision as you have mixed and put in place your base color in place add layers of darker dyed mortar on top or side or... to get the look you are after.
The idea of making and working with different colored batches at the same time may also be of use, much like you were doing with your paints.
All kinds of ideas to explore and play with.
I like the colors. They worked as well as could be expected outside.
I wonder what would happen if you used outdoor latex paint instead?
As the craft acrylics aren't outside paint.
Someone else recommended the Morter powder dies. But that really only works for new stuff. Unless you want to redo some of the rockwork.
Also recall that the big railroads have massive MOW crews for when Mother Nature gets carried away.
And dealing with snow slides, mud slides, rock slides, and fallen trees are just typical expected results of winter and other rain or snow storms.
So you are being prototypical on your railroad.
I'm interested to see how your deck drains are working. As you get a lake on the track everytime it rains
I have a big much more stonework to do… I’m about halfway through it? So the mortar color dyes will get a sec there. But for the most part… this is working.
😊
You can try colored mortar or concrete diye's
You could have considered alcohol stains and tints, thinned with denatured alcohol. It really soaks in well. Then a thin concrete sealer for protection. Alcohol has a lower surface tension factor and soaks into the mortar or plaster really well, whereas water has a higher surface tension factor and doesn't want to sink in and tends to sit on the surface.
I use that inside. Works well. We are going to try concrete stains next. Experimenting.
For the light gray mortar try using water resistant drywall compound the type you use in your bathroom. Apply it like Jason Jensen does for his brick walls apply a flat clear coat before applying the mortar
I use plain drywall plaster inside… that should work great. Thanks.
There are powdered stains you add to as you mix the cement .
The color goes all the way through this cement .
I don't know how much to mix into it
Use a test area ( not on the layout ) to test how much is mixed in .
You do want stratas .
Pree dilute a dark brown instead of black it's more natural .
And try using OUTDOOR canned paint ( small cans ) aka Touch-up .
I think I would probably go with a driveway/sidewalk sealer with stain pigment added. If you look up some of those options I think you could mimic the look you were going for with the paint. That sealer will soak into the mortar and permanently dye it. Probably have to touch it up every 4-6 years.
I tried that in one area but it dried super glossy. But I need a better sealer. So if it’s gloss it’s gloss. Better shiny than failed.
Try adding the color to wet mortar mix when mixing the mortar....or try when mortar is completely dry after it is applied.
I'd look into concrete stain for painting the rock work. It'll bond and soak into the mortar good
I'm thinking to dye the mortar/cement mix before you lay it down. Of course, I have never done it myself, so just a thought.
Yup. That’s the plan going forward.
thy do make concrete stains of various colors you can buy at Menards or Home Depot. I used it on my layout to stain the concrete roadbed
A heat gun warming the rocks first may have helped
How about covering it with clear concrete sealer after you get desired color look
Planning to
As previously stated, add the color pigment to the mortar mix before applying the mortar to the layout. You'll have better results. 🙂
Thanks for the tips!
Dale, it does my heart good to know that there is another modeler who can overthink thing just as I do.
Have you tried contacting Dave Meek from Thunder Mesa for a technique that might work? Disney has made a science out of such work.
Yes I have. Using his system in Cañon Grande inside. Have you see the photos of the Lark Mine on the community tab? That’s in the Cañón.
@@ToyManTelevision I have and it is truly impressive.
Have you thought of ceiling in the color with a dullcote?
Yup. Didn’t help. But still working on that.
Thanks
Welcome!!
Have you tried the tinting products for cement\ mortar? They come in several colors, and you might be able to tone down or increase color. These mix into the mortar as a dry product.
Not yet. But that’s the plan going forward
Dale -- Why didn't you tint the mortar mix to begin with? Then you would only need to accent the colors.
Need a better color. And too uniform. But I’m going to do that next time.
Try concert dyes that should work cause they are made to penetrate already poured concert.
Let Mother Nature handle the weathering
Yup.
It doesnt hold up , you will probably have to redo it every couple of years. at least that's what happened here in WI
Thinking I’ll need to. Not a big deal. Simple.
Exterior acrylic paint should work!🚂🚂🚂
It should. As long as it soaks in. That’s what I had on the old railroad. But hard to get much color. Anyway it’s what they use at Disneyland. So it does work!!
:)
After you paint try a dull clear coat
Did. But the paint failed and took the clear coat right with it. 😢
Maybe use alcohol on the places with paint, or thin paint with alcohol.
Might work.
You could try Ink not paint. I've done it with plaster of paris it soaked in.
Trying Rit Dye. Seems to work
I was wondering why you didn’t mix color in the mortar to get a base color to start with?
Yup. That’s the plan going forward. Didn’t do that on the old railroad and it looks and works fine!! Latex house paint over the bare concrete. Anyway from now on yup, color in the mix.
It's probably to late but what about adding the paint to the mortor mix before mixing it.
Yup. That’s the plan going forward. Concrete stain.
I am thinking a clear coat over the paint might have worked too.
Tried that. But the paint still comes loose and takes the clear coat with it. But I think I have a workaround.
I’m curious what would happen with Muriatic acid and solvent based paints. I’m not sure what chemistry of paint would work or the application method. I do agree with others that tinting the mortar during or pre application would likely be best, and I think I’ll do that when I do my own. It might be worth experimenting with Muriatic Acid, on the already complete section. However, Hydochloric Acid must be treated with respect, so gloves and mask at a minimum.
It is looking good, if you can make it stay…
I tried that! Gave it up. The acid opened the mortar surface, which is what I wanted, but it caused the lime to surface when ever it got wet.
Dale, Have you found the Train Crew you purchased to install in the cab, to fit? I have found that all of my figures to be 6 feet tall and to be too tall for my locos! Jpwever, I have simply shortend their legs and used them with their amputations! How well has it worked in your Fsace;?
Yup. Most of mine have one leg. It happens.
The truth of the matter is that back in the 20s and 30s, people where not as tall as they are now. Also, even today, not everyone is 8 foot or taller, so the manufacturers are simply getting it wrong!
Ok, What stains your driveway and you pay hell getting that stain out? oil. Oil mixed with other stuff,
John Campbel mentioned "dried mortar pigment" used to die the mortar before adding water.
What do you think about taking some "Mineral Oil" mix it with some of that pigment and paint that on your dried Motar. The motar is, after all, the base for concrete.
Then, after drying, seal it with an oil based mat finish. Look this may be a hair brained idea, but I've had a few of those work out fine
The goal is to use something that penitrates the dried motar, oil peritrates. Just saying ;-)
That’s why I thought the wood stains “wood” work. Nope. Spill it on the driveway and it will be there for centuries. Paint it on and it just sits there.
How about concrete stains at lowes or home depot ?
Next up.
why don't you mix a color pigment in your mortar when you mix your mortar you wouldn't have to worry about it
Plan
They make concrete stain.... just sayin.
Yup. Getting some. Color is uniform. But I’ll make it work.