Schiff is quickly showing himself to me to be a truly feeling, thinking master of his craft, more so than so many. That sounds far more vacuous than I would like, but it's when you get that feeling of being moved or educated or amused by everything he says or plays, and you wish the video was far longer. And that closing line: "Bach was one of us. The best of us, but one of us." Very beautiful indeed.
It was Andras Schiff who originally opened up my world to the beauty of Bach and I think he's still my favourite interpreter of his music. His insight, clarity, respect and profundity of his playing is exquisite but I could also happily hear him talk about these works all day.
It is always a joy to listen to András Schiff in his explanation of Bachs music. He has really thoroughly reflected the music he plays. Es ist immer ein Genuss, die Ausführungen von András Schiff zu hören. Erstaunlich, wie tief und reflektiert er die Musik durchdrungen hat.
“Bach is the supreme genius of music... This man, who knows everything and feels everything, cannot write one note, however unimportant it may appear, which is anything but transcendent. He has reached the heart of every noble thought, and has done it in the most perfect way.” - Pablo Casals
For me Schiff is a great teacher. I enjoy every posting of his on the UA-cam. Most young people have no idea what lucky we are with all these available learning opportunities. I am very grateful. For example, I would have walked two miles to just listen to this UA-cam when I was 16.
“Any composer, even the most gifted, takes a place second to Bach's at the very start.” - Paul Hindemith “If one were asked to name one composer who came closest to composing without human flaw, I suppose general consensus would choose Johann Sebastian Bach...” - Aaron Copland "to make divine things human and human things divine; such is Bach, the greatest and purest moment in music of all time.” - Pablo Casals “...the greatest music in the world.....” - Felix Mendelssohn
I've heard Bach played on a steel drum. I have heard Bach played on a marimba. No matter what instrument you play, Bach is beautiful and accessible to all.
They say "Sir Schiff". You don't address people you don't know somewhat by their first names, especially if you are acknowledging their membership in the gentry.
Apparently you're right! I've been misled for decades by an interview I read with the actor Anthony Hopkins, who said (after being knighted) that "they say "Sir Hopkins"." So I looked up how to address British nobility, and according to Wikipedia (heh) you only use the last name if the title is really your spouse's, and only if it's a "lesser" title like "Lord" or "Sir". Otherwise, it should be "Sir Anthony", for example.
@@ChollieD I reprimand you for not exercising due diligence before composing your first comment. But I commend you for your willingness to educate yourself and admit your mistakes.
I nearly like as much listening to Andras Schiff talking about Bach as playing Bach. Also, why, oh why is it so unusual and so refreshing to hear that C Prelude at last played "Stylus Phantasticus"? I admire Schiff enormously.
whether you agree with Schiff or not, I appreciate him for being a thoughtful and analytical about his craft. So many believe that "artists" are just born with talent and don't have to do anything. Not so. He demonstrates that his talent and love of his craft have driven him to engage deeply and meaningfully with his studies. I think it may be Barenboim who criticized him for not using the pedal. Barenboim believes that this movement to replicate the "original" sound is silly and doesn't ultimately do what it intends to do.
Ah, Barenboim is the opponent. Well, I therefore cannot be on one side or the other. Both Schiff and Barenboim are artists reaching for infinity. Wherever each arrives, I cannot say what might be best.
One wishes Schiff would touch on the subject of keyboard tuning (in an historical sense). "Well Tempered" in Bach's time translates today to meantone temperament, which gave each key signature a character. These key-personalities were extremely important for the structure of each prelude/fugue, prescribing in many cases their harmony.
Your comment, dear Rob Lingelbach, is just about the only one which is worth reading...And yes, he should have touched on this issue of utmost importance: "well tempered" is by no means equivalent to equal temperament!
DId you watch the video? He said he prefers the way the piano handles dynamics and does not like how overholding notes on the harpsichord effects the flow of the music.
Most musicologist agree that there are three apex composers. Bach, Handel and Beethoven. Most Bach people will disagree and place Bach at the top. However I feel that both Handel and Beethoven belong aside Bach not on the mathematical aspects of music but in Handel`s case his unbelievable melodic and dramatic gifts. Likewise, Beethoven excelled on his innovative and other worldly explorations of new of sounds and structure . Thank goodness for all three.
Thanks to all who have written to disagree with Schiff's comments about the harpsichord. Harpsichord music by many composers is filled with appoggiaturas. Yes, the second note is as loud as the first on a harpsichord. But harpsichordists used other aspects of articulation, plus of course some imagination, and it worked just fine. So the argument is ridiculous. Sad, because Schiff brings many fine qualities to his playing, and his lectures on Beethoven are very illuminating.
DAVID LOCKWOOD I guess its not rare to have German name for anyone coming from countries of former Austro-Hungarian Empire, and for a Jewish person it is eve more expectable. But there is definitely something Germanic in his mindset. Without doubts one of the top Bach players ever, if not the best one.
One can hear a clavichord in a hall, small!,or church.Erwin Bodky payed Pr & Fugues in the 30's in Amsterdams Concertgebouw ( I, too, at the end of my first Clavieruebung recital there in 1985. I would believe that the organ was the Master's favorite keyboard instrument., the summit of his Clavieruebung, the Third Book....
MrKlemps I think Andras Schiff is referring to Arie Vardi, the great Israeli pianist and teacher. Check out their fascinating dialogue on UA-cam. In that same program, I also enjoyed hearing Schiff's comments regarding Glenn Gould's Bach playing.
Cyril Goldstone Thank you for alerting to me that wonderful interview. How rare for a great musician to be interviewed by someone--apparently another great musician, previously unknown to me--who knows the right questions to ask!
+Cyril Goldstone Actually, I think the pianist in question is someone about whom he and Arie were talking in that interview. They both agreed that the pianist is very difficult to debate, for he cannot be wrong and keeps on pushing well beyond the point where you've lost interest in trying. I can't remember his name, but they both knew what he was like. Skip through the interview again, and I'm sure you'll find it quickly. It was in the first part of the show, if I remember correctly, maybe 10 minutes in? -- [Edit] I went looking for it, and I must have misspoken. It apparently was not in that interview. I must be thinking of a different one, but I do not know which.
I completely agree with you, Mr. Schiff is a bit too traditionalist for my taste, He does, however, play the piano in such a masterful way that I can overlook that. I do wish, though, that he would stop with this nonsensical notion of the harpsichord having these sort of limits he describes in all his interviews. He makes many blanket statements about the harpsichord, and what he perceives as its "limits", I feel most of these limits can be overcome with all be it very skillful play.
I respect Mr Schiff, but I also respectfully disagree with his evaluation of the harpsichord. The Well-Tempered Clavier can, and has been, played marvellously on this instrument. It is really a dead-end business to compare modern piano and harpsichord. They are different instruments, with different languages and different means of expression. One can do what the other can't and vice versa. Neither is better or worse. Neither is more or less expressive.
Schiff certainly knows how to wind up harpsichord fans with his claim that some pieces in the 48 are not suited to that sublime instrument! I think that hearing an instrument a great deal makes one respond to it more strongly. Piano fans are going to prefer Bach on the piano and harpsichord fans are going to prefer harpsichord performances. It's deep down in what their brain's learnt and trying to rationalise the preference may be missing the point.
Eh, in prelude 881, the thinning and thickening of the musical texture on harpischord accomplishes the "sospiro" as he calls it. It's built into the bass line, and is actually much more apparent on harpischord than on piano. See Kenneth Gilbert or Glen Wilson on lute stop for good examples, not with Schiff's exaggerated rhythm. What about touch and timbre and temperament of modern piano (conveniently his own instrument) being very different from any instrument which Bach would have known?
There are many great composers and I note you mention Palestrina a very early composer.Bach being a later Baroque composer had the benefit of earlier masters to learn from and if we judge the composers in their paradigm we can only be astounded at what they did but I will be controversial and say Bach was the greatest composer . But this of course is my opinion based on my unfailing admiration of his work. It constantly opens my mind to new aspects of his vast knowledge and creativity.
I don't agree. Pedal can be beautyfull in Bach! And he was certainly not one of us (at least not one of me, that's for sure!). I think Bach would have been happy to know that so long after his death people stil enjoy playing his works, perfectly or not. He meant his keyboard works for entertainment, after all!
Bach would have been delighted if he had a grand piano. All these "would be musicians" who become interviewers miss this important point and ask banal questions to show off their knowledge of music. Yes piano, No piano, Yes pedal, No pedal. Bach was an innovator and if he had a chance to own a computer for writing his music, he would have jumped on it too. Lastly, Bach's music would sound good if played well by a kazoo orchestra. His genius was writing music with a mathematical perfection unlike any other composer. Just listen to the myriad of transcriptions from instrument to another... they all sound great. He himself transcribed his own music for different instruments. Grow up and leave Bach alone :)
Schiff knows infinitely more than I do about Bach, but how can one say that the WTC is not meant to be played on a harpsichord? It definitely sounds better on a modern piano, but Bach intended it for something else... On the other hand, Well Tempered for Bach did not mean equal temperament, a subject that Schiff doesn't even mention!
... also, a worse mistake you made was assuming that Schiff is more concerned about "playing exactly how" Bach wished (on ancient instruments) than what he himself as a musical interpreter wished (on progressively further developed instruments). An artist would be finished if he thinks that way as you think. Even a historian wouldn't be so pointlessly self-limiting.
Interesting! He firmly believes that Bach's favorite instrument was the clavichord. This belief comes from CPE Bach but now some people believe that CPE Bach attributed his own preference to his father. Proof? We have a surviving inventory of Bach's music collection when he died. He had quite a lot of music instruments in his possession but NOT A SINGLE CLAVICHORD.
“The elephant in the room” is not the modern piano. J.S. sounds superb on ANY instrument and at ANY time. ... the “elephant in the room” is the inappropriate question.
I also very much enjoy his piano playing and have tried to learn from it. But as a harpsichordist, I feel insulted that he refuses to show the same kind of respect that many harpsichordists accord him.
The limitation of harpsichord was a simple fact stated in comparison to today's instruments that Bach had no luck to witness in his life, therefore your claim of "a completely dynamic result" is simply a deliberate exaggeration in your false attempt at refuting Schiff. Yes there could be some "dynamic result" on harpsichord (which Schiff apparently knows since he used them professionally!), but by no means "complete" compared to today's instruments - and that's Schiff's point.
Is M. Schiff, great pianist that he is, totally unaware of how harpsichord technique works ? There is no need for any agogics, just a little overholding, a little décalage between the hands and clear musical projection and you can have a completely dynamic result. Would Bach have ever allowed the limitations of the harpsichord to prevent him from playing exactly how he wished ? I have lost all respect for Schiff.
Can we please move on from the notion that playing Bach on the piano is somehow daring?! Have these conservative idiots heard of Wendy Carlos? Bach WORKS on the piano and just about every other instrument that has 12 semitones and few octaves to spread out on! End of story.
I met a guy who did not like Bach / classical music, he died of a drug overdose, so yeah just some junkie. If you don't like Bach you don't know much about music :D
I really don't like the way Glenn Gould plays Bach, to me he ruins it. In general, I think the well tempered klavier should be played with pedal, however, I make an exception for András Schiff as I think he plays Bach incredibly without pedal. I don't like the way Gould plays Bach without pedal. Listen to Daniel Barenboim's Well tempered klavier album, that is how Bach should be played with pedal. This is my opinion of course, feel free to disagree, I respect other opinions. Fascinating topic nonetheless.
About every word from his mouth is utter uneducated nonsense! - "What's the right instrument for Bach? It's impossible to answer! [...] You cannot say what [the WTC] was written for" is plain wrong. While many of the pieces work on other instruments, technical and stylistical elements clearly favour the harpsichord. - "[Clavier] is first and foremost the clavichord. [...] This was Bach's favourite instrument" Clavier does mean "keyboard instrument", but not first and foremost the clavichord, and there's no evidence anywhere to suggest otherwise. Besides, as someone else pointed out already, there's not a single clavichord listed in Bach's belongings (a number of harpsichords though), so it's highly doubtful it really was his favourite instrument. - He says "sospiri" when demonstrating an appoggiatura, alas, the term "sospiratio" describes something entirely different, a pause inserted into a melody, and only came to be associated with descending tones much later. - He claims the harpsichord is unable to properly play an appoggiatura and the only means of approximating it is by making "huge agogic changes". Again, wrong on both accouts. The harpsichord is not only capable of playing an appoggiatura, it also has many more means of doing so aside from "huge agogic changes". Besides, would so many people have written for the harpsichord music containing appoggiaturas, had they been convinced that the harpsichord was unable to play them? - "The a minor fuge from the WTC is an organ piece, as evident from the pedal point at the end, which is only playable by an organ". Only if you look at the score without ever playing it. Playing it on the harpsichord this is what happens: by the time you need to let go of that low A because your hand needs to move elsewhere, the note has already faded, so letting go of it is not noticable. Besides, why would Bach, the great organist, who wrote such devilish pedal parts in his organ music, write a piece for organ, in which the pedal is used for only a single note at the end? Surely, had this piece been intended for the organ, you'd be able to tell from more than one note! - His argument against using the pedal is "Bach didn't have a pedal, so why should I use the pedal?", which is a valid argument. However, he fails to apply that same argument to the modern piano as a whole. "Bach didn't have a Steinway, so why should I use a Steinway?" sounds like a reasonable thought to me. I could go on, but then I wouldn't get anything else done tday...
Who is this pretentious stuffed shirt asking these banal questions. First, since there are no recordings of Bach playing his own music, everything said about this and that about Bach is pure speculation. If Bach had access to a modern grand piano with a sustain pedal he would have been thrilled. If it were a digital piano he would have been even more thrilled. Had he heard jazz, he would have probably gone mad with excitement and written a great jazz 4 part fugue. Great musicians are always looking to expand their horizons. Who does not agree?
Schiff is quickly showing himself to me to be a truly feeling, thinking master of his craft, more so than so many. That sounds far more vacuous than I would like, but it's when you get that feeling of being moved or educated or amused by everything he says or plays, and you wish the video was far longer. And that closing line: "Bach was one of us. The best of us, but one of us." Very beautiful indeed.
It was Andras Schiff who originally opened up my world to the beauty of Bach and I think he's still my favourite interpreter of his music. His insight, clarity, respect and profundity of his playing is exquisite but I could also happily hear him talk about these works all day.
It is always a joy to listen to András Schiff in his explanation of Bachs music. He has really thoroughly reflected the music he plays.
Es ist immer ein Genuss, die Ausführungen von András Schiff zu hören. Erstaunlich, wie tief und reflektiert er die Musik durchdrungen hat.
“Bach is the supreme genius of music... This man, who knows everything and feels everything, cannot write one note, however unimportant it may appear, which is anything but transcendent. He has reached the heart of every noble thought, and has done it in the most perfect way.”
- Pablo Casals
For me Schiff is a great teacher. I enjoy every posting of his on the UA-cam. Most young people have no idea what lucky we are with all these available learning opportunities.
I am very grateful. For example, I would have walked two miles to just listen to this UA-cam when I was 16.
This kind of videos are a treasure !!!!
It is always interesting to listen to Andraa Schiffs comments, one of the greatest pianists of our time and highly experienced ! Thanks for posting
Interviewer: "Let's talk about the elephant in the room..." *Schiff looks around the room amusedly...*
"For Bach it was not so important to listen to this or that it should be played. It's just there .. sheer perfection"
Schiff nailed it as usual!
“Any composer, even the most gifted, takes a place second to Bach's at the very start.” - Paul Hindemith
“If one were asked to name one composer who came closest to composing without human flaw, I suppose general consensus would choose Johann Sebastian Bach...” - Aaron Copland
"to make divine things human and human things divine; such is Bach, the greatest and purest moment in music of all time.” - Pablo Casals
“...the greatest music in the world.....” - Felix Mendelssohn
"The old Bach, who contains all of music..." C. Debussy
Cioran: "Bach disait tout devoir à Dieu alors que c'est Dieu qui doit tout à Bach"
💙💙💙
The one by Pablo Casals is so accurate and well said, it is excactly how i feel.
I've heard Bach played on a steel drum. I have heard Bach played on a marimba.
No matter what instrument you play, Bach is beautiful and accessible to all.
In recent Henle Editions of Bachs Wohltempetierte Klavier, Schiff writes how to execute... I recommend it!!!
Happy to see that he's been knighted by the Queen. I'd be very happy indeed to address him as "Sir András" - he's given much to music.
They say "Sir Schiff". You don't address people you don't know somewhat by their first names, especially if you are acknowledging their membership in the gentry.
+ Dan Only ignorant people would say "Sir Schiff".
Apparently you're right! I've been misled for decades by an interview I read with the actor Anthony Hopkins, who said (after being knighted) that "they say "Sir Hopkins"." So I looked up how to address British nobility, and according to Wikipedia (heh) you only use the last name if the title is really your spouse's, and only if it's a "lesser" title like "Lord" or "Sir". Otherwise, it should be "Sir Anthony", for example.
@@ChollieD I reprimand you for not exercising due diligence before composing your first comment. But I commend you for your willingness to educate yourself and admit your mistakes.
@@igorjee I reprimand you for being late. Very, very late. Also, for being Magyar. :P
Haha, he's clearly referring to Arie Vardi. Check out the interview he had with Schiff and talking about the usage of Pedal in Bach's music.
I am very excited to hear the new recordings.
Very thoughtfully played, Schiff is grreat
I nearly like as much listening to Andras Schiff talking about Bach as playing Bach. Also, why, oh why is it so unusual and so refreshing to hear that C Prelude at last played "Stylus Phantasticus"? I admire Schiff enormously.
Interesting and thought-provoking, as Andras Schiff always is.
please upload the complete version of this valuable recording discussion
Wonderful! Thanks Klassik!
Very interesting. Many thanks.
whether you agree with Schiff or not, I appreciate him for being a thoughtful and analytical about his craft. So many believe that "artists" are just born with talent and don't have to do anything. Not so. He demonstrates that his talent and love of his craft have driven him to engage deeply and meaningfully with his studies. I think it may be Barenboim who criticized him for not using the pedal. Barenboim believes that this movement to replicate the "original" sound is silly and doesn't ultimately do what it intends to do.
Prince Hal Both arguments make sense to me actually. The way they execute those ideas is what matters to me tho.
Actually, I think that the one who criticized him might be Perahia. He always uses pedal in Bach.
Ah, Barenboim is the opponent. Well, I therefore cannot be on one side or the other. Both Schiff and Barenboim are artists reaching for infinity. Wherever each arrives, I cannot say what might be best.
One wishes Schiff would touch on the subject of keyboard tuning (in an historical sense). "Well Tempered" in Bach's time translates today to meantone temperament, which gave each key signature a character. These key-personalities were extremely important for the structure of each prelude/fugue, prescribing in many cases their harmony.
Your comment, dear Rob Lingelbach, is just about the only one which is worth reading...And yes, he should have touched on this issue of utmost importance: "well tempered" is by no means equivalent to equal temperament!
It's the F minor Prelude n° 12 from The Well-Tempered Clavier, book 2 :)
Thank you for this video. It made my morning!
Maestro Schiff uses the pedal also in the prelude of the english suite number six by bach.
Thank you for this!
Very nice how he plays BWV 881 Prelude at 3:00 with that slightly rubato on the repeated chord
einfach genial!
Music is subjective, but not that subjective. It's just there, sheer perfection. Sheer subjective perfection, but not that subjective perfection.
What on earth are you waffling on about??
it would be nice to have talked about what/if he's doing different from the last recording
wunderful explanation
After all the interest in this, we still don't know where to find the full interview....
So true, that's why they're called artists, all are different.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
what a nice venue, would love to play that piano at night, when all that city lights would be on
DId you watch the video? He said he prefers the way the piano handles dynamics and does not like how overholding notes on the harpsichord effects the flow of the music.
very true
Most musicologist agree that there are three apex composers. Bach, Handel and Beethoven. Most Bach people will disagree and place Bach at the top. However I feel that both Handel and Beethoven belong aside Bach not on the mathematical aspects of music but in Handel`s case his unbelievable melodic and dramatic gifts. Likewise, Beethoven excelled on his innovative and other worldly explorations of new of sounds and structure . Thank goodness for all three.
Right on bro :)
Thanks to all who have written to disagree with Schiff's comments about the harpsichord. Harpsichord music by many composers is filled with appoggiaturas. Yes, the second note is as loud as the first on a harpsichord. But harpsichordists used other aspects of articulation, plus of course some imagination, and it worked just fine. So the argument is ridiculous. Sad, because Schiff brings many fine qualities to his playing, and his lectures on Beethoven are very illuminating.
What is the piece at 12:56, does anyone know?
+kwoksmusic BWV 883
e flat minor prelude, book 1
Hej, from which piece was this again? (At 03:01)
I just can't remember...
Schiff is German for ship....
Well he floats my boat
A great German pianist playing a great German composer
Gruss Gott
i thought he is hungarian?
adam2eve Yes,born in Budapest of Jewish descent.
Maybe this is where the German name of Schiff comes from?
DAVID LOCKWOOD I guess its not rare to have German name for anyone coming from countries of former Austro-Hungarian Empire, and for a Jewish person it is eve more expectable. But there is definitely something Germanic in his mindset. Without doubts one of the top Bach players ever, if not the best one.
schiff: i love you for ever. i'd love to meet you.
I have a strong feeling that he's referring to Daniel Barenboim.
One can hear a clavichord in a hall, small!,or church.Erwin Bodky payed Pr & Fugues in the 30's in Amsterdams Concertgebouw ( I, too, at the end of my first Clavieruebung recital there in 1985.
I would believe that the organ was the Master's favorite keyboard instrument., the summit of his Clavieruebung, the Third Book....
Who is the pianist whom Schiff does not name who disagrees with him about the use of the sustaining pedal? Please post if you know. Thanks!
MrKlemps I think Andras Schiff is referring to Arie Vardi, the great Israeli pianist and teacher. Check out their fascinating dialogue on UA-cam. In that same program, I also enjoyed hearing Schiff's comments regarding Glenn Gould's Bach playing.
Cyril Goldstone Thank you for alerting to me that wonderful interview. How rare for a great musician to be interviewed by someone--apparently another great musician, previously unknown to me--who knows the right questions to ask!
+Cyril Goldstone
Actually, I think the pianist in question is someone about whom he and Arie were talking in that interview. They both agreed that the pianist is very difficult to debate, for he cannot be wrong and keeps on pushing well beyond the point where you've lost interest in trying. I can't remember his name, but they both knew what he was like. Skip through the interview again, and I'm sure you'll find it quickly. It was in the first part of the show, if I remember correctly, maybe 10 minutes in? -- [Edit] I went looking for it, and I must have misspoken. It apparently was not in that interview. I must be thinking of a different one, but I do not know which.
Which organ fugue does he talk about at around 5 mins? anyone know the bwv?
a minor fugue first book
what's the piece at 8'24''???
prelude in b flat minor, first book
Shiff makes one really understand why Bach is being called "the father of modern music".
I completely agree with you, Mr. Schiff is a bit too traditionalist for my taste, He does, however, play the piano in such a masterful way that I can overlook that. I do wish, though, that he would stop with this nonsensical notion of the harpsichord having these sort of limits he describes in all his interviews. He makes many blanket statements about the harpsichord, and what he perceives as its "limits", I feel most of these limits can be overcome with all be it very skillful play.
What is the piece at 12:31?
BWV 853. This is: musescore.com/classicman/scores/340831
What is the "pastoral" piece at 8:26?
The prelude from the Prelude and Fugue in E major BWV 854
I respect Mr Schiff, but I also respectfully disagree with his evaluation of the harpsichord. The Well-Tempered Clavier can, and has been, played marvellously on this instrument. It is really a dead-end business to compare modern piano and harpsichord. They are different instruments, with different languages and different means of expression. One can do what the other can't and vice versa. Neither is better or worse. Neither is more or less expressive.
5:37 it was probably Brendel. I hope not Sokolov!
am I imagining it or does this guy bear an uncanny resemblance to Bach?
Schiff certainly knows how to wind up harpsichord fans with his claim that some pieces in the 48 are not suited to that sublime instrument! I think that hearing an instrument a great deal makes one respond to it more strongly. Piano fans are going to prefer Bach on the piano and harpsichord fans are going to prefer harpsichord performances. It's deep down in what their brain's learnt and trying to rationalise the preference may be missing the point.
Eh, in prelude 881, the thinning and thickening of the musical texture on harpischord accomplishes the "sospiro" as he calls it. It's built into the bass line, and is actually much more apparent on harpischord than on piano. See Kenneth Gilbert or Glen Wilson on lute stop for good examples, not with Schiff's exaggerated rhythm. What about touch and timbre and temperament of modern piano (conveniently his own instrument) being very different from any instrument which Bach would have known?
2:57 Appogiatura
There are many great composers and I note you mention Palestrina a very early composer.Bach being a later Baroque composer had the benefit of earlier masters to learn from and if we judge the composers in their paradigm we can only be astounded at what they did but I will be controversial and say Bach was the greatest composer . But this of course is my opinion based on my unfailing admiration of his work. It constantly opens my mind to new aspects of his vast knowledge and creativity.
I don't agree. Pedal can be beautyfull in Bach! And he was certainly not one of us (at least not one of me, that's for sure!). I think Bach would have been happy to know that so long after his death people stil enjoy playing his works, perfectly or not. He meant his keyboard works for entertainment, after all!
Prelude in E major Book 1
For those who are curious about the pedal discussion he referred to:
ua-cam.com/video/MhDFq_MrOcE/v-deo.html
Who attacked him about the use of pedal?
Bach would have been delighted if he had a grand piano. All these "would be musicians" who become interviewers miss this important point and ask banal questions to show off their knowledge of music. Yes piano, No piano, Yes pedal, No pedal.
Bach was an innovator and if he had a chance to own a computer for writing his music, he would have jumped on it too.
Lastly, Bach's music would sound good if played well by a kazoo orchestra. His genius was writing music with a mathematical perfection unlike any other composer. Just listen to the myriad of transcriptions from instrument to another... they all sound great. He himself transcribed his own music for different instruments. Grow up and leave Bach alone :)
Schiff knows infinitely more than I do about Bach, but how can one say that the WTC is not meant to be played on a harpsichord? It definitely sounds better on a modern piano, but Bach intended it for something else...
On the other hand, Well Tempered for Bach did not mean equal temperament, a subject that Schiff doesn't even mention!
Funny he should mention that. Actually I find much of Bach's choral music interminable - is it just me or what?
e major prelude, book 1 :)
should be bwv 865, here is a video of it /watch?v=tpz9Y_TUipk
skip to 1:30 for the fugue
... also, a worse mistake you made was assuming that Schiff is more concerned about "playing exactly how" Bach wished (on ancient instruments) than what he himself as a musical interpreter wished (on progressively further developed instruments). An artist would be finished if he thinks that way as you think. Even a historian wouldn't be so pointlessly self-limiting.
Interesting! He firmly believes that Bach's favorite instrument was the clavichord. This belief comes from CPE Bach but now some people believe that CPE Bach attributed his own preference to his father. Proof? We have a surviving inventory of Bach's music collection when he died. He had quite a lot of music instruments in his possession but NOT A SINGLE CLAVICHORD.
“The elephant in the room” is not the modern piano. J.S. sounds superb on ANY instrument and at ANY time.
... the “elephant in the room” is the inappropriate question.
08:24
New York
I also very much enjoy his piano playing and have tried to learn from it. But as a harpsichordist, I feel insulted that he refuses to show the same kind of respect that many harpsichordists accord him.
The limitation of harpsichord was a simple fact stated in comparison to today's instruments that Bach had no luck to witness in his life, therefore your claim of "a completely dynamic result" is simply a deliberate exaggeration in your false attempt at refuting Schiff. Yes there could be some "dynamic result" on harpsichord (which Schiff apparently knows since he used them professionally!), but by no means "complete" compared to today's instruments - and that's Schiff's point.
Is M. Schiff, great pianist that he is, totally unaware of how harpsichord technique works ? There is no need for any agogics, just a little overholding, a little décalage between the hands and clear musical projection and you can have a completely dynamic result. Would Bach have ever allowed the limitations of the harpsichord to prevent him from playing exactly how he wished ? I have lost all respect for Schiff.
Can we please move on from the notion that playing Bach on the piano is somehow daring?! Have these conservative idiots heard of Wendy Carlos? Bach WORKS on the piano and just about every other instrument that has 12 semitones and few octaves to spread out on! End of story.
I met a guy who did not like Bach / classical music, he died of a drug overdose, so yeah just some junkie. If you don't like Bach you don't know much about music :D
Really knows his stuff. I think he makes Gould look like shit.
Well, he doesnt.
why?
I really don't like the way Glenn Gould plays Bach, to me he ruins it. In general, I think the well tempered klavier should be played with pedal, however, I make an exception for András Schiff as I think he plays Bach incredibly without pedal. I don't like the way Gould plays Bach without pedal. Listen to Daniel Barenboim's Well tempered klavier album, that is how Bach should be played with pedal. This is my opinion of course, feel free to disagree, I respect other opinions. Fascinating topic nonetheless.
You think wrong.
@Ash Thunor I love Schiff. I think he makes gold look like shit.
About every word from his mouth is utter uneducated nonsense!
- "What's the right instrument for Bach? It's impossible to answer! [...] You cannot say what [the WTC] was written for" is plain wrong. While many of the pieces work on other instruments, technical and stylistical elements clearly favour the harpsichord.
- "[Clavier] is first and foremost the clavichord. [...] This was Bach's favourite instrument" Clavier does mean "keyboard instrument", but not first and foremost the clavichord, and there's no evidence anywhere to suggest otherwise. Besides, as someone else pointed out already, there's not a single clavichord listed in Bach's belongings (a number of harpsichords though), so it's highly doubtful it really was his favourite instrument.
- He says "sospiri" when demonstrating an appoggiatura, alas, the term "sospiratio" describes something entirely different, a pause inserted into a melody, and only came to be associated with descending tones much later.
- He claims the harpsichord is unable to properly play an appoggiatura and the only means of approximating it is by making "huge agogic changes". Again, wrong on both accouts. The harpsichord is not only capable of playing an appoggiatura, it also has many more means of doing so aside from "huge agogic changes". Besides, would so many people have written for the harpsichord music containing appoggiaturas, had they been convinced that the harpsichord was unable to play them?
- "The a minor fuge from the WTC is an organ piece, as evident from the pedal point at the end, which is only playable by an organ". Only if you look at the score without ever playing it. Playing it on the harpsichord this is what happens: by the time you need to let go of that low A because your hand needs to move elsewhere, the note has already faded, so letting go of it is not noticable. Besides, why would Bach, the great organist, who wrote such devilish pedal parts in his organ music, write a piece for organ, in which the pedal is used for only a single note at the end? Surely, had this piece been intended for the organ, you'd be able to tell from more than one note!
- His argument against using the pedal is "Bach didn't have a pedal, so why should I use the pedal?", which is a valid argument. However, he fails to apply that same argument to the modern piano as a whole. "Bach didn't have a Steinway, so why should I use a Steinway?" sounds like a reasonable thought to me.
I could go on, but then I wouldn't get anything else done tday...
'About every word from his mouth is utter uneducated nonsense!'
I stopped reading here lol bloody drama queen..
I prefer Chopin
Who is this pretentious stuffed shirt asking these banal questions. First, since there are no recordings of Bach playing his own music, everything said about this and that about Bach is pure speculation. If Bach had access to a modern grand piano with a sustain pedal he would have been thrilled. If it were a digital piano he would have been even more thrilled. Had he heard jazz, he would have probably gone mad with excitement and written a great jazz 4 part fugue. Great musicians are always looking to expand their horizons. Who does not agree?
You are indulging in the same speculation that you berate others for. There's a word for that.
everyone knows bach is the greatest. mozart and beethoven are so overrated imo. Gerschwin, Tatum, Chopin deserve it more imo