Dutch Van Der Linde Got Exposed at Horseshoe Overlook
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- Dutch Van Der Linde is mentally unstable and near his breaking point at Horseshoe Overlook in Chapter 2 of Red Dead Redemption 2.
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This video needs more attention.
I haven't seen a video that breaks down Dutch, as well as this one, until now.
Nicely done.
You should check out a video made by Fizhy called “The mental decline of Dutch van der Linde”. It doesn’t quite touch on the same subject that this guy is, but it definitely gives a lot of info and insight into Dutch’s thought process. I will absolutely agree that this was an amazing video.
Facts
Agreed. I've watched a lot of content on this game since beating it earlier last year (I was late to the series) and not one really pointed out that this was the real moment that spelled the death of the gang. Damn. Very nicely done.
And yes Fizhy makes great videos but he never really takes a solid stand on any one thing to the ambiguity of games due to their subjective nature. Or not one that I can recall anyway.
One time Dutch came up to me telling me that "I hang around camp too much and used to be a man of action" despite the fact that I was grinding like a motherfucker robbing trains, hunting, and clearing gang hideouts. So I left camp and just kept doing what I was doing without returning until I triggered the event for Charles to come looking for me. Then I put 500 dollars in the camp funds, gave enough meat to feed an army to Pearson, antagonized Dutch, Shaved my mountain man beard, and then took a nap.
I always donated watches, rings and jewelry bags that I found from robbing houses and trains. I never gave them cash. I also kept everyone fed with giving Pearson meat. I don’t think Dutch was ever a good man just a master manipulator. I hated in chapter 6 how Dutch took advantage of the Natives. He knew it was a losing battle and he still led them to slaughter. Hosea was shot in cold blood, Lenny was killed, Sean was shot in the head at Rhodes and etc. Dutch didn’t give a shit about the other gang members just about himself. I also didn’t like how he killed Brontë Angelo. Looking for Jack at Braithe Waite manor was horrible because he did instigate them into that. You can’t keep robbing and stealing from someone without repercussions.
I was always mad u couldn’t fight them back after they knock u out😂😂
A true RDR enthusiast
@@breezy6859In ways, I did feel justified with the Greys, the Braithwaites, and Bronte, but you really start to see that the gang are turning into murderous monsters, Hosea says as much himself. I had really mixed feelings on Catherine Braithwaite, when they killed her sons in front of her and dragged her out of the burning house. Bronte's death was especially brutal and everyone there was horrified. Killing Bronte was also a waste of time in the end, especially for the reasons Dutch gave. Yeah, he set us up and took Jack, but he gave Jack back. Killing him had to have gotten the attention of the Pinkertons, if everything else hadn't already.
I think Sean's death and Bronte's death are what really made some of them start to look at themselves and their actions differently. Hosea and Lenny's made them start looking at Dutch differently. It always reminds of John saying _"Sometimes I wonder if things are ever the way we remember 'em, if we were ever who we thought we was."_
Sad that it took so long for the senior members to notice that finding “paradise” was all just a pipe dream.
They were brainwashed the longest. Easy to cut your losses on a year but how do you come to terms with your entire life being a lie?
It was always known underneath it all. That outlaw life was just so addictive. Adrenaline rush inducing. Surviving together, every member being all each other had. They had Dutch who they all admitted WAS a legit great leader for the 1st 20 years of the gang. Hosea is no fool. For him to have been with Dutch that long, Dutch MUST'VE been legit at one point. It wasn't until Micah slithered into the group when Dutch started slipping as a leader and the gang fell apart. The group's downfall started with the botched Blackwater robbery, which everyone knows Micah had a huge hand in. I also think that Micah through all the mayhem of the botched heist, shot Mac & Dave and the huge chaotic commotion of scrambling, trying to escape Blackwater covered his tracks so it looked like Pinkertons got them. I don't think the Callender brothers were very fond of Micah at all and I heard they were some real deal, heavyweight gunslingers. I wouldn't mind a Red Dead where you're playing as Mac. We never SAW his death so maybe Agent Milton was only lying about "mercy killing" him to get in Arthur's head when actually, they never found out where he went. That's just an entrie left field pitch of a Mac Callender protagonist story for RDR3.
@jacobsworld9253 rdr3 need sto be all new characters. Everyone in rdr and rdr2 had had their story told but jack and I don't care to learn what happend to jack..I'd rather it left open ended for fans to speculate...but rdr3 needs to have nothing to do with the van Der linde gang..the VG has had its story told...there's no need to play as mac or Davey.
@@asurxh I was kinda hoping RDR3 was gonna be earlier. I was thinking maybe a disenchanted Civil War soldier that deserts and flees west, has to become an outlaw to survive and then meets up with other guys also laying low and stealing chickens and they form a band.
Or maybe play as the Law. Be a Marshall on the lawless frontier, walking the line to get the bad guys by any means, the only Federal Authority in 1000 square miles.
And then have a young Dutch and Hosea cameo mission. Maybe be the guy that got Arthur's dad. Tie it in without it being the same saga.
@@asurxhneed a San Andreas type Red dead of what blacks was going through at that time, bass reeves, Cherokee bill, Nate love etc former slaves turned outlaw and they were not freed slaves either so already got a reason for them being hunted. So many ways you can go
One thing I've noted as another sign of Micah whispering in Dutch's ear: the events of the game are precluded with the shooting of a girl by Dutch, with Micah having put in motion the events leading to it. In Chapter 6, with Abigail captured and sure to be killed, Micah dismisses it with four words to Dutch:
"It's just a girl."
In one of the first entries on Arthur's journal. Arthur's writes about how just before blackwater, they had money and had the opportunity to disappear and buy some land.
But Dutch kept blocking them because he didn't like the land or smt like that.
I think that maybe this was the first time his goals were really tangible, reachable, real.
And he faced the fact that his goals were just platonic.
That he was a seeker, not a finder.
He wanted to free his loved ones. He really did.
But if he succeeds, the seek ends. And and as a consequence, his life would end too.
He kept fooling the gang with those platonic goals. Not just the gang but himself aswell
Hosea was the first one to realize.
In chapter 1 he is already disillusioned and realistic about it.
Always trying to convince abigail, john and some others to leave or at least think about what they're doing before it's too late.
Dutch's internal conflict. Plus the changing world, the losses, the constant stress and the pressure.
This all ate his brain.
"Maybe what began to happen in blackwater began long before... A slow decline i guess"(arthur to sadie when she asks him about Dutch's actions on chapter 6)
And about the trolley, of course may have made things much worse. Made Dutch more irritable and impulsive.
But summing up his mental decline to just "he hit his head and went crazy" is oversimplify too much
It also mentions that he thought they were being watched, which is likely considering the ferry job. The timeline is confusing. Arthur mentions a fire up north, coming south through the grizzlies, Dutch having a lead on land but getting spooked, picking up folks in the grizzlies, Jenny and Micah, and coming to Blackwater. He lists them by paragraph seperately but it seems likely there was a blending of events and he is just recounting things as he writes. It is possible Micah was with them here and already feeding Dutch's paranoia.
Basically, the land purchase falling out could have been anywhere between the fire up north and stopping in Blackwater. Personally, I have thought the land they were looking to purchase was the same land where Pronghorn Ranch pops up in the epilogue and they met Micah prior to that (met in a bar, West Elizabeth is a dry county.) Beechers Hope is also possible. Both are poetic, in their own way (Beechers Hope especially considering its purchase leads the Pinkertons to John). Hanging Dog is another possiblity, and the very name could be enough to spook him lol.
Mate this is perfect explanation. Well done. 👍 Everything you wrote is correct. From word to word.
I love that people are still making thoughtful videos about this glorious game.
Its the best Western movie ever made.
I still watch other people's playthroughs as though its a movie. Its always fun to see what somebody else does.
Its the best open world ever made too. Its kinda a double edged sword, cus I just can not enjoy many open worlds since. They feel like a bunch of chores and generic fetch quests compared to RDR2. They did such a good job giving everything a purpose. Hunting and Fishing are actually fun and relaxing, instead of being a monotonous task, like in Far Cry, where you just want your damn 3rd weapon slot 🤣.
The characters feel like real people. I hated Micah... thats solid writing if you genuinely hate a fictional charachter. Was bummed when Kieran died... he came so far as a member of the crew.
I actually wanted to hear the NPCs talk to each other. I never wanted to fast travel.
I tried Horizon Zero Dawn... bored AF after a few hours.
Its gonna be tough for even GTA6 to match. Its gonna have to be mindblowing.
Its the greatest game of all time brotha
John was already questioning Dutch's decisions from very early in the game.
Yup. I'm also pretty convinced that John was the second "rat". Every job he was on, Blackwater, the train job he set up, and the Saint Denis bank, all had police there right away to intercept them. Also, John is the only one that was taken alive during the bank job, Abigail got away while Hosea was taken and killed, and he was not shot fatally in either the Blackwater job or the army train robbery, when others were killed on sight.
I feel like he only came back for that reason after being gone for a year, but there are a few inconsistencies in the theory. But, if Micah really was only picked up after Guarma, there had to be someone else and John fits it the most imo, considering Milton took Abigail to lead them into a trap, making me think it wasn't her.
@@ZeroshikiJohn was pretty loyal. I could see it being Abigail but you see that they try to use her as bait.. then again you acknowledged the inconsistencies and since the games had such gaps between them...there's bound to be theories unanswered by Rockstar and left up to us to decide. I believe it was all Micah, from the very beginning he leads you to the o driscolls...I think Dutch being careless is why they were so behind the law. Cornwall was a different animal than Dutch was used to, and he didn't care how many of his gang died for his stupid feud with Colm....
@@Zeroshikithe feud is what sets in motion the pinkertons knowing where the gang are AFTER they escaped into the grizzlies. If they'd left the train alone...they could have made it to Tahiti. Maybe not Dutch...
@@grekygrek Yeah, I kinda assumed it might be Micah all along, since every job he was involved in was a setup, same with John. He told Arthur where to go and he was immediately taken by Colm's boys.
I'm kinda iffy on John; he left the gang for a year and was questioning Dutch's leadership before anyone else, besides Hosea. But, they also came back and took his family later to threaten him to gather up the rest of the gang, so that's an inconsistency. I feel like if he was working with them before, they might not need to threaten him, unless he really just didn't want to bother since he'd made a new life for himself. Plus, I'm not sure if he would let Arthur be at risk like that, but that could go either way, at least earlier on.
With Abigail, I'm not sure either, because she killed Milton without hesitation and she never really had any gain. She thought they'd killed John at first, which I would think was something she'd doubt if she was really involved with them, because her only goals were to protect Jack and John. Although it does coincide with John being captured at the bank, instead of being killed like Hosea and Lenny, and Abigail managing to get away.
Either way, it's hard to say for sure. And it could've been someone else altogether. Or no one at all. Like Arthur said "We don't need a rat. We got sloppier than the town drunk. And they know who we are, and where we are, and what we're doing". Dutch never made things any easier with his "noise and commotion" nonsense. Killing Bronte, getting involved in the war on Guarma, shooting Cornwall when Milton had just walked away, getting involved with the natives, the army, and then robbing the train, etc, etc. He basically led them to their front door at every turn. By design or not, I'm still not sure of that either.
@Zeroshiki John wasn't a rat. Neither was Abigail. There was no rat before Guarma. Afterwards it was Micah. Milton says as much at the end. Arthur tells Dutch that there didn't need to be a rat because they had gotten sloppy. All the trouble caused by Dutch's plans were enough to cause high alert statis in Saint Denis. The gang were being heavily investigated the whole game anyway. That's why the jobs they planned almost always went to shit.
It truly boggles my mind how so many people who played Rdr1 where Dutch was just straight up evil, played Rdr2 and walk away thinking that he is good but turns evil by the end. He's clearly a really bad manipulating maniacal dude from Chapter 1, and only gets worse. All these theories of getting a head injury on the trolly, or the impact of losing Hosea, and oh the rat in camp, like ya they add to it, but he was evil all along, and the gang was destined for failure since the Blackwater massacre. Their doom was inevitable.
Dutch is a complicated character and many people have different interpretations of the character.
There, mind unboggled.
In my opinion, it’s heavily implied Dutch is a fraud and a manipulator early in the game. We’re told by Milton he takes advantage of peoples situations (all of the gang were at their lowest points bar one or two) we also see that with Sadie at the start of the game, his speech he gives in colter is written on a piece of paper at horseshoe overlook and obviously the shooting of Heidi McCourt who we don’t see but we here about. However his charisma and his fake caring nature overrides this. Until chapter 4 when we see he starts to fall apart and we see him for who he really is. In my mind the trolley heist does affect his brain and mind because after he has no where near the charisma and charm he had before and he genuinely becomes unhinged. For example, killing Bronte and the anger he has whilst doing it. John even says “what part of your philosophy says to feed a man to a goddamn alligator Dutch?” As if to say you’ve never done this before, what happened to you. That happens in one or two missions after the trolley heist.
@@channel45853nah bruh cuz Dutch was always a hypocrite
@@channel45853Dutch’s character plays on childhood innocence as it did for many of the people he found young, but as an adult you hear John and his gang killed 100 people that sounds like a ton of people today and an astronomical amount back then
@@benjaminwatson7868 dude, the value of human lives does not inflate over time.
Arthur should've run away with Mary and start a life before getting sick 🥲
“Shu-ah, Dutch.” I believe Dutch also felt threatened by Lenny, there’s some camp dialogue (not sure if it’s at Horseshoe Overlook or Clemens Point) between Lenny and Dutch. They’re having a philosophical debate and Lenny schools Dutch. Funny how all of the “good” characters have disagreements with Dutch. The villainous characters just go with the flow.
When you think about it, when you are playing Arthur, its dawn, its chore time, and typically during story developments the game will put you into a cutscene, music que and camera focus on the expressions of the speakers, the things that make players pay attention to. But you don’t get any of that as these obvious red flags in dialogue. I honestly thought it as him talking through the motions of temporary bouts of frustration. Which really illustrates how we continued to miss it time after time while focusing on our own problems and missions. Almost scary how accurate people miss things like this irl.
PS. this was a well done video essay.
Excellent work, bravo. Yes Dutch in Chapter One was unsettling. "You will betray me in the end, youre the type" - EXCUSE ME??!!
I think this kind of writing is a marvel of storytelling. The amount of writers coming toghether to write this 1 character, not including the 100s of other voiced Charaters/Npcs, and how he interacts with them is INSANE. Ive played this game 3 times over, mainly just for the story, and I still hear new voice lines, interactions, and in dutches case especially I see another layer to their charaters.
Ive never seen these encounters dutch has been crazy all this time..
The devs really put lots of time onto the game thats just crazy
Obviously. He has been grooming kids for 20 years that we know of. To be extremely loyal robbers and killers. Kids that have grown up and now seeing Dutch for what he has always been..
Even Micah knew it, as early as chapter 2. "Waiting on daddy to put food on the table" Yet Dutch only really took part in the big jobs. His boys did most of the dirty work, on Dutchs 'orders?' Although, Dutch made those orders sound like favours. "You're the best man for the job. You're the only one I can trust with this. You're more than a son...
Dutch really knew how to manipulate people for his own means. He hid it well until Micah came along and started feeding Dutchs ego for his own ends.
Ergo. Dutch was always a calculating psychopath.
But, it was Micah who helped the gang see Dutch for what he always was...
A wild west Charles Manson
If you play low honour for a full playthrough and antagonise everyone in camp constantly, you'll hear a whole lot of new dialogues
He groomed Susan Grimshaw when she was a teen to be his lover and number 1. When she got to around 30 years old, Dutchs eyes fell on Annabelle. He had her so much under his "spell" she stays with the gang because she still loves him and he is still fond of her. Dutch didn't get a chance to get bored of this infatuation due to Colm killing Annabelle. Dutch has never been in love before, except for his own self. That is why he has to see Colm dead. Dutchs eyes then fell to the 19 to 21 year old Molly. He never says he loves her, but says "Thank you my dear" when she says it to him.
Now that Molly is 30 Dutchs eyes fall to Marybeth and Molly knows this. After Molly goes missing, you see Marybeth leave Dutchs tent in her underwear. Marybeths book tells the story of a young girl in love with a charismatic leader, of sorts. Ring any bells?
Marybeth asks John if he's heard anything of Dutch and says that's a shame when he says he hasn't. She obviously is still under Dutchs "spell". Still doesn't have a bad word to say about the man who "saved" her.
Dutch was pure and simply a manipulative, conniving bastard. Who groomed kids to do whatever ever he wanted them to do..
Bottom line
@@lynette50 what do you mean? By grooming 🤔
@@lynette50 MARY BETH DID WHAAAT
This is the only video that analyzes Dutch in the light that he should be analyzed. The dark abstract music, viewing him under the lens of a cult leader rather than a gang leader or a simple leader of a group of outcasts, is the way ive always seen it. Dutch was pretty much running a cult but made it seem like they were just disenfranchised people who were treated bad by civilization so now their goals are to simply survive and establish their own “town” of misfits. Yet the true goal was to wage war against the industrializing US government. This is also the only video ive seen to talk about that weird interaction where Dutch just starts freaking out cause Arthur is in his general area. I always thought that was really weird but i thought maybe Dutch was just making an odd joke, but considering how the story pans out, you’re also inclined to think that Dutch was genuinely losing his marbles in that moment lmao. The story of the gang is the story of Dutch’s downfall, i think at one point he truly thought himself as just another outlaw but one with some sort of moral compass, but the more he realized he could get people to follow him and do his bidding, the more he realized he could use his big brain to move on to the nefarious identity he took on as the gang grew. Loan sharking, robbing poor and rich folk, and eventually poking the bear that is Uncle Sam. Literally the power he had over the people he would meet eventually gave him the messiah complex that most cult leaders tend to fall into sooner or later. All under the guise of a freedom fighter and simple man who just wants to live a simple life for himself and his people. Uncle said it best in a camp event, “he wants to be an American king (Dutch), with his knights (Arthur, John, Bill, Javier, Micah, Charles, Lenny, etc).” Unfortunately for Dutch, like most leaders, the pressures of the job got to him, making him mad and devolve into his worst self.
Man Red Dead 2 was one of the last great hurrah's of triple A gaming, i wish more games in recent years made people think and feel in the way this game did.
Dutch shot a girl to escape from Blackwàer heist (RDR2). He shot the young woman In the bank to escape Blackwater (RDR1).
Blackwater brings the devil out of him
I can't help but feel like Arthur, John, Uncle, Charles, and Grimshaw could have stopped Dutch and Micah
Tf is uncle gonna do he got lumbago
@@templesleeper27 Uncle was Red Harlow. Plus, he would be willing to die protecting his family, much as his family died protecting him.
@@joekuvorkian it was a lumbago joke but uncle is 100% not red dude rockstar said revolver isn't canon. please stop its been years
@@templesleeper27 Revolver isn't canon it's an over exaggeration of Uncle's memory. He literally tells you he was the one shot kid and has the same scar. He is the canon Red Harlow. I don't give an 8th of a fuck what you say 😂
@@joekuvorkian Uncle is not Red Harlow. Uncle tells lies about his past and Red Harlow was half Native American.
I'm glad I didn't play RDR1 until I beat RDR2. I fell for Dutch's silver tongue like many of the gang.
I can totally appreciate that perspective. He really is a smooth bastard. Having played rd1 first, it really made the whole journey poetic.
In those instances of hope, knowing how things turn out for the gang, really coincided with Arthur having TB, knowing he's going to die.
Dutch is also very quick to anger, in chapter 2, when sitting by a tree, he'll call Arthur over, if Arthur isnt there within a few seconds he'll get a-"yeah well FUCK you then." from Dutch
Followed by a "Fuck you too!" by Arthur.
Is this real?
@@chodagreat7876 Only experienced it once
@@doomer37 That's crazy! Im only in Chapter 4 atm, but Dutch seemed like a sociapath to me. That is why I looked this video up on UA-cam..
Micah Bell and Dutch the conman give me bad vibes.
@@chodagreat7876 Just wait until chapter 5 and 6...
My fist time playing rdr2 was a few weeks ago. Im only on chapter 2 and dont like dutch. The outa pocket shit he says to arthur was a red flag for me and made we want to betray him off rip. And i refuse to do the micha mission
One question that has never been answered is ; who is Dutch Van Der Linde ? according to Bronte that name is an alias,
His mother, Greta van der Linde, is buried in a marked grave in Blackwater. Her grave is located on the northwest side of the graveyard and the headstone reads: - "Loving mother to her son Dutch. There was grace in her steps, love in every gesture."
But isn't his mom buried in Blackwater with the name Van Der Linde?
@@KarlPHorseWell he can't be named Dutch, that's a nationality, not a names.
Apparently his actual name is Daniel but I haven't seen any evidence for that
@@docc_yes he can. Dutch is a name, as is Pole
they need to add more cutscenes with characters. arthur could’ve been running the camp and had companions go on missions or hunting with them. this game is one of the best honestly but i wish it had simple tweaks that would’ve made it more enjoyable and realistic
I mean it would have been awesome, but not a realistic expectation sadly. :\ RDR2 has a lot of reactivity to players, and a lot of voice acted dialogues, which, added to the many activities and the nuances, make RDR2 to be among the top10 most expensive games ever created with an estimated 170 million dollar development budget.
But who knows.. maybe modders can add content like that in the future.
Whenever I go to camp and Dutch talks to me about some nonsensical book he's reading or something else I always see the psychotic and manic Dutch from rdr1 it always reminds me that no matter what Dutch will always end up the way he did in rdr1
One morning when Arthur woke up dutch was just staring at me and says good morning Arthur im telling you it was creepy
This really shows me details on Dutch I've never seen in the game. Thanks for the great video!
Man keep up the great work brother. This is top quality here. I love the dark music you’re playing to fit this topic
Marybeth: “WE’RE GONNA DIE”
Pierson: “good morning Mr. Morgan :D”
The loyalty of this man
please make more vids like this, it was amazing and tells people to slow down in the story cause this game RUNS DEEEEP
The literature hes always quoting is not random. Hes a huge fan of Evelyn Miller whose real name is Henry Thoreau. Hes a character you meet at the ball in Saint Danis and eventually do some favors for him.
When the pressure was building up, Dutch was exposed more and more to what he truly believed - his talks about how he would sacrifice himself for the group were lies he told everyone including himself. In reality, Dutch always cared about himself more and that his life, ego, ideology was more important than that of his memebers. Fighting and surviving was his drug and at the point of a gun, he'd sacrifice every member to keep on going. He would never let himself say that truth, but his actions betrayed his virtuous look of himself every time
So much attention to detail in this video, very well done. I've never seen 70% of these encounters, crazy how much was put into this game. Also, love the dark ambient music in the back round. Really set the mood for the topic.
thanks for your videos! Keep going on
Rdr3 has to absolutely have the black water ferry heist
That's gotta be the ending!!! We should also play as Dutch
@@joekuvorkianI’m all for it but there is the matter of postgame free roam.
@@ashenking5013 not needed. Someone also pointed out to me that Dutch doesn't fit the theme of "Redemption". So maybe Mac Calendar? Final mission is the black water ferry then the final scene is Mac bleeding out and shooting at Pinkertons while everyone gets away, before being killed by Agent Milton.
@@joekuvorkianthe callender brothers were described as a “vicious pair of bastards and that’s all they ever were and will be” by Charles to Arthur. They have no redemption plot. Also the blackwater heist doesn’t seem like a good ending to the game… we need to freeroam after the story.
A fresh new story and characters is the best way to go. Or maybe Landon Ricketts. We don’t need a prequel to a prequel. RDR2 IS the backstory.
@@McDiesel27 Macs redemption was fighting off Pinkertons while Arthur escapes. Still, I don't see how Dutch can't free roam if it's prior to RDR2. I hope we get several characters in one game like GTA 5 TBH.
I really wish the game had activities to do with other camp members. For example maybe you could take members to the saloon or fishing maybe even hunting or just plain riding. GTA4 had a great mechanic where you could hang out with other characters and have interesting interactions and conversations. If this was the case in RDR2 we could've got really good lore conversations and the fallout between gang members would be more apparent to the average player.
There are missions like that, they’re small scale but there’s Robbing, hunting and fishing with many of the members.
If you ask me the gangs best chance to lie low would have been to start a ranch. They have all they need to do it and they clearly don't need buildings to survive. They could have started with chickens, eggs and raising horses to sell. They have three good ways of making money the honest way. Though Dutch's delusions costed the gang everything. They all could have just disappeared. If not for all the noise they made they would have gotten away.
It’s so interesting to see Dutch being a Cult leader with our eyes clear after beating the game the first time and not being fooled by him
I blame Micah for everything, Micah may have been the rat, but Dutch is responsible for everything that went wrong with the gang. The Blackwater Ferry Job. It was Micah's idea. Arthur and Hosea had a rich real estate scam going on and Dutch went with Micah's idea, because one big score was just too big for Dutch to pass up. You’ve noticed Dutch going crazy in chapter 2, just chill there and talk to Dutch while he’s reading his books. His “Ideas” mainly came from books he would read. The Saint Denis robbery, they’re in an abandoned building. Dutch needs ideas on how to escape; until he seen a painting of a boat on the wall. He was crazy from the start and hitting his head made it worse
I haven't seen a video that breaks down Dutch this well until now good job!
btw I've never seen all these encounters this crazy!
Very well put together video. Looks like you had a plan while putting this together.
Fantastic video. I wish you did more content about Dutch.
i love this!! well done :)
Ngl, I never noticed all of this…maies the second chapter darker than I though it was.
I love when Abagails all like “John we barely making it!” John’s bank account, over 22K
This game is so interesting because when you really stew on the plot, Dutch never even respected Hosea. Considering they met as they were trying to rob one another, Dutch manipulated and strung Hosea along using his tactical skills as a means to an ends. Once he found Micah, someone he thought possessed the same skillset as Hosea, but with ideologies more aligned with his, he immediately betrayed him and followed through with the Blackwater heist.
I don’t think he ever cared that Hosea died. He was only upset that he’d lost another resource.
I see the reunion between John and Dutch in 1911 as a dark(er) mirror of the 1899 Blackwater Massacre. I think in 1899 things went wildly wrong and they got trapped, so Dutch took a hostage to buy time. Eventually he panicked and pulled the trigger, fhen ran in the ensuing chaos, fleeing to the snowy mountains to escape with his people. To deal with the horror of what he's done he convinces himself he only did what he had to do. In 1911 he coldly and deliberately recreates the scenario, perhaps as a way to gain control over the event, then instead of fleeing he regroups in those same mountains to do what he knows best - fight. Fight. Fight. Then die.
I didn’t recognised because I didn’t spend time on that hole. I was going to saloons and betting a lot. 😂
People are always saying there wouldn’t be a story with a prequel, but dutches madness and the doubt from the gang is evident right in the beginning of the game. Blackwater was the beginning of the end and whatever events that lead up to a fire in the north was the catalyst of the downfall. Arthur even says “I don’t know if he’s losing his mind or if he lost it a couple years back and we’re just starting to realize it” or something along those lines after returning from Guarma. I would like to see the madness and hypocrisy that was Dutch in the north
I love this video dude! Great analysis! And honestly the creepy as hell background noise/song really helps to hit home just how sinister and selfish Dutch’s actions were deep down.
I think one of the biggest f ups is that all this is completely missable, like its not very fun just waitin in camp for shit to happen, you shouldve be able to one, run in camp and two, been able to take members of the gang with you free roaming and them than enabling you to have these type of interactions while free roaming, like imagine your hunting and your with uncle and while hunting uncle expresses this shit to you instead of waiting in camp fir something anything to happen such a shame
There’s a lot of camp interactions that I felt should’ve been cutscenes tbh. The fact that a lot of players don’t know that Dutch was crazy from the start is alarming lol
@@McDiesel27 I played on ps4 and pc multiple playthroughs and I didnt even know I just don't hang around in camp all to much
@@moretoastedthanatoasterstr9773 yeah that’s fair. Exactly why I think they should’ve made some of them cutscenes. Too much important info that’s easily missable.
@@McDiesel27In one of the missions with Sadie Arthur says that he realises Dutch's decline started long ago, and there are several instances in other cutscenes where is stablished that ever since Micah joined the gang, Dutch has been specially careless, so it's definitely made clear in the story itself too. The random missable interactions are just little treats that they give to add even more depth to the characters, but they wouldn't left something so important in just a missable interaction. If some people thought that Dutch just started going crazy at the end that's just lack of media literacy lol
@@michelle1794 I see what you mean, but some of the camp interactions reveal a lot more about their characters than most of the cutscenes do, and with how missable these interactions are, it can cause the player to misunderstand the narrative due to missing what I think is crucial dialogue/scenes. There’s a couple John/Dutch moments that shouldve been in missions imo. And same with Bill and Javier who only get development through camp interactions, and almost none through missions.
I think most camp interactions make sense and should stay as is, as you said, they add depth and nuances. But there’s definitely a few that should’ve been made cutscenes due to their importance of the character’s development but that’s just my opinion
You also have the Curse of Valentine to go with this as well. Very interesting points, also added bonuses for the ominous soundtrack in the background.
I don't know 🤷♂️ When I first saw Dutch boasting & grandstanding in the beginning, I thought:
"This guy is full of shit & will betray us all"
Sure enough he did.
I don't think he's interesting.
That last speech you show Dutch giving - you can find it in written form, just outside Horseshoe Overlook, resting on or near a ruined wagon and some other junk. It's a letter item called "Dutch's Speech Notes." If you read it from the paper on-screen you can even see sections he decided he didn't like or needed to change, and crossed-out. Finding this is a revelation as to just how rehearsed and non-spontaneous this supposedly inspiring rally is; Dutch has even clearly denoted in his written script where he needs to pause for dramatic effect. It's extremely telling, and I was honestly expecting to see it in this video. Great video otherwise, and pretty darn thorough. I love content like this. Subbing.
whacky unrelated side note: I've played the game 100% in VR, and I noticed that while Dutch is giving his very similar speech in the very beginning, in the Colter cabin after the gang has all filed in, the Callendar boy laying dead on the table totally has a fog-breath effect/animation coming from his mouth/nose, like he's breathing. I've noticed all kinds of funny stuff that is supposed to be off-camera. Asset placements, etc. I try NOT to see them for the sake of maintaining immersion, but sometimes I do and they're almost always funny.
Phenomenal work here.
Watching all horseshoe overlook Dutch interactions in succession clearly show he was already losing his marbles
Dutch is a natural politician.
Think about that for a moment
Omg that heavy synth suspense music makes it feel so much more sinister. Crazy how a mood can be added.
In the game, I felt like Dutch was just trying to keep everyone going and feeling like they could succeed, for the sake of morale.
I (Arthur) and Hosea obviously knew Dutch was a real politician and doesn't believe his own BS.
I was pretty good at keeping the spirits in camp high with all the amenities being topped off and chores done, so I did not see a lot of the stressed-out encounters til Butcher Creek, when you just couldn't donate anything anymore.
I didn't really feel like Dutch was losing it til we burned down the plantation.
The fact that he still managed to convince the rest of the gang to pursue their tropical pipe dream despite pretty much having it on Guarma speaks volumes.
volumes for how stupid the gang is
Did everyone notice his platform 24:36 attached to the floor of his tent, there is no reason for it being there other than it being used as a platform for his speeches .
this video feels so eerie. like as if you would talk about a serial killer ghost possessing people in my city 😖
Great video man dutch was always insane!
One could argue that people drawn to the outlaw life tend to be a little unstable in general.
There are interactions I had where Arthur would call Dutch on how he treats Molly, and Dutch would mentally beat Arthur dowm and tear him emotionally, Arthur is clearly upset by this by the expression and body language. There was one time Arthur made a playful jab at Dutch, and clearly to make an example of Arthur to tear him down brought up Arthur’s failed relationship with Mary and mocked him for it. This was chapter 2 and jist one example on how shitty Dutch is.
The more I play, the more I see as early as chapter 1, Dutch is manipulating everyone around him. Even if you're manipulated, you still question and want to understand the manipulator. Arthur is aware he's being fed lies, but he's mentally stuck and, at least in my opinion; is willing to be Dutch's target of abuse. He encourages the younger members to question, to think on their own, to not take Dutch seriously. John, Lenny, Tilly, etc.
I alwaus applaud this game for having such human feeling characters. Different types of people. And how accurate Dutch is as a toxic manipulator is horrifying.
The majority of the problems started when Micah joined the group. Dutch kept him around for reason I can’t figure out.
Dutch seems to be what used to be called a utopian socialist from XIX century. It was quite common people like him in the US and Brazil, Patagonia, etc, trying to create a new better society.
Just ran through RDR2
It’s been probably 10+ years since I’ve picked a controller up. It blew mind how much RDR set this game up and left room for Rockstar to do some story telling. Masterpiece. 10/10 So much nostalgia.
3:31 is very true Arthur has always been the best😊
Really good vid.
Dutch was a hero to everyone in the gang. Many occasions you can hear the other members telling their story how they came to know Dutch. They all were at the end of their rope staring into doom when Dutch took them in and educated them and gave them all purpose. Arthur has been with Dutch and Hossia for 20+ years. Its understandable that they would all follow him to the end. Personally I think Dutchess behavior was brought on shortly after meeting Mica and plotting to betray the gang. It would be impossible no matter how much money they obtained to disappear with that many people. It would take a grate toll on a man to betray people he cared deeply about. It would also weigh heavy on someone to be responsible for so many people while on the run with such a huge bounty on their heads. The trolley incident when Dutch suffered a head injury pushed him over the edge. Throughout the game it seemed at times mostly before the trolley incident Dutch was doing things in hopes to be caught.
i caught a couple of these one day while i was playing with the deadeye and tracking people he just randomly yells at me for following him, i then antagonized him and he pushes me!
tbh dutch manipulated me too during my first playthrough lol. i didnt hear a plenty of those conversations because i wasnt in the camp a lot. until chapter 6 i really believed that he wants to find a safe place for gang to live. i could see that he's toxic and had my doubts about his decisions (for example the way he treated molly and mary beth really made me irritated/disappointed or how he was so chill when arthur saw pinkertons) but in the end i ignored thousands of red flags lol
Since day one, forgetting about Dutch in the other game, I knew this man was insane and should have been put down. Dutch needs to survive because of the other game… but I would have put him down when the camp was in horseshoe
I have a good feeling Dutch never intended on settling down. He only used the prospect of such a thing to keep his underlings motivated.
You know, the disturbing part is... In maybe this chapter, but he definitely the third chapter, Dutch flirts with MARY-BETH, the liklely third youngest member of the gang, being at most 6 years older than Lenny and Tilly, making her 20-26. And how old is Dutch? 44! HE IS POSSIBLY TWICE HER AGE! All these just go to show how insane Dutch is in RDR2, even at his most sane point in the story...
A 40 year old flirting with a full grown 26 year old woman is more disturbing than murdering a woman? Tf?
Your video is very well done.
I am on my second play through. The first time I kind of went along with the story. But I didn't like Dutch from the first Giddy Up.
This time through I do every thing I can to piss Dutch off. Every time I see him I get in his face and antagonize him as much as I can. I follow him around and keep getting in his way. When he wants to talk to me I avoid him. I have him so pissed off at times he'll start yelling and pushing me around in camp.
Will this action change anything in the story? No. But it makes me feel better. 😁
Again, thanks for the Vid.
You're welcome and thank you! It's thoughtful comments like this that make you forget the rude and hateful ones, making this so worthwhile.
@@RedSalute The rude and hateful folks are something I don't understand. What really gets me is I'm pretty sure they don't even begin to understand how much work and thought goes into producing a video of this caliber and quality or any video for that matter. If you disagree make your case and move on. Everyone has an opinion. Unfortunately some think their opinion is the only correct one.
It seems that these folks know how to make a nasty remark and that's about it. My guess is that making the nasty remark exhausts their total creative abilities and it is all that they are capable of. As I said this is just a guess. 🤔
Please give no more concern to the nasty ones then you would for an ant crossing the road in downtown NYC.
Keep up your excellent work.
@@sr3237"everyone has an opinion". Sounds like they wrote it off as facts, in which case they deserve the heat
Dutch Plan Der Linde just got exposed now I'm going to antagonise him as much as Micah
Dutch was everyone's downfall. They had enough money to go anywhere they wanted by the time Arthur, Charles, and Uncle robbed the Rhodes bank. Arthur can also have insane amounts of money if he hunts for gold. If they had split up in small groups and went either far west or overseas, Arthur could have had a peaceful last few months and they wouldn't have lost Lenny and Hosea, maybe even Sean.
Dutch was a master manipulator that was charming enough to keep everyone around and was too busy trying to hold onto his pride and prove a point to the government than to keep his people safe. Hosea tried so hard to get everyone to realize that they were wasting their time and digging the hole deeper by doing whatever Dutch wanted.
I knew something was off with Dutch from how he spoke to his wife at the camp by valentine. After they told us about his killing of a pretty lady during the black water job, I knew then his character would go deeper than just the douche leader
“Okay, Dutch”
ITS OBVIOUS ARTHUR IN THIS SCENE SHOWED BLATANT SKEPTICISM AND ANNOYANCE AT DUTCHS MAD RANT!!
MORNING MISTER MORGAN! :D
Karen was never very smart tbh I can see why she bought into Dutch
🎯💯
at least it was fun though
and micah was also a fun guy
what did the gang stand to lose anyway?
they had nothing, they were outlaws
so there was no deterioration for them
it was all the same with sane dutch or insane dutch
Micah Bell:
I aint no monkeh
I believe this dutch been losing his shit since whenever him n colm started to have beef. Which got a girl he love killed n him killing the man's brother
Passive-Aggressive much?
if dutch was really about his philosophy he would have turned himself in
The bipolar theory seems even more likely with these clips
Arthur should of took the deal and gave up Dutch when the Pinkertons offer it
Yes, but the Pinkertons would've just shot Arthur the moment they had the chance. Both Dutch and the Pinkertons are two different beasts from the same mother.
The Pinkertons would shit gold before they actually honored that deal
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Loved it! Do you have other channels?
You got my loser 29 year self interested in a story I already heard on a Friday night. Good story telling skills and idea!t
dude chill, dutch has a plan
Is Dutch a cult leader
Might as well be. Poor bastards
First time i played this game, I was like "Dutch went mad and Micah ruined everything, Arthur deserves high honor"!!! Just like everyone else does. But after the second time playing it I was like "Oh freak Dutch was mad and evil the whole time, and Micah only kicked over the already crumbling foundations. Arthur deserves getting stabbed in the back on low honor, and Hosea deserves just as much responsibility as Dutch"!!!!
Very accurate
I wish that when Dutch is giving a big speech more people would come and gather around, at least at the start
You're greatest video 💯💯💯.🙏🏽🩸