A government surveyor knocked on a Minnesota farmer's door and informed him that a surveying error was discovered. His farm was actually in Wisconsin. The farmer replied "Thank God, I don't know if I could take another Minnesota winter.
As a former Toledoan, I am aware Michigan won, by not having to accept Toledo. I am also aware Michigan consists of THREE peninsulas: Upper, Lower, and the two mile square Lost Peninsula, accessable only through Ohio or the water. Some days, I miss home. 😎
@@willoughby1888 Some very slight audio compression artefacts, but not what I would call static as such (listen to the audio, not the silences in between as you would for normal "static"). I've heard much worse on UA-cam - stuff that actually does sound like static. Part of the problem is that once you've uploaded a video, as a creator you don't have much control over what UA-cam does with it technically. While the creator may wish that the video and audio is transmitted exactly as it was uploaded, UA-cam are much more interested in maximising the use of storage and processes the upload accordingly. There's not a lot THG can do about it I believe.
This story is a bit more personal in our family lore. My 3Great Grandfather was deeded 120 acres in the Toledo Strip, as compensation for his father being disabled at the Battle of The Thames. They were originally Michigan residents, having lost their homes when Frenchtown, present day Monroe, was burned forcing the family to flee in an open boat out on Lake Erie. There was some anxiety whether my Grandfather would be able to keep his farm if the Ohio claim was upheld. As it turned out, his deed was honored and he lived there raising 18 children, until passing away in 1882.
For Christ’s sake. How many wife’s did it take him to sire eighteen offspring. My paternal grandfather was one of six kids. The fourth died of pneumonia as the doctor was at the house delivering the sixth one. Then, not to miss out on the attention, the fifth one died a month later. It was a time for the hardy ones.
@@webbtrekker534 , In those days, it was expected to lose one or more to disease, or accidents. There is a tall stone in an old local cemetery next to our farm, which shows the deaths of four children, in a period of 4-5 months. Kids were a necessity to the operation of a successful farm, with the amount of physical work to be done. It was a mixed bag of both good and bad. Keep your family safe.
Only in the eyes of that state down south. Our true rival is MSU. We don't give a hoot about that school down on the farm. P.S. Why did you follow the lead of MSU to become a land-grant college?
Thank you for this one! As a Michigander the "Toledo War" has always been one of my favorite little snippets of forgotten history so I'm happy to see it getting some attention.
As an Ohioan I feel the same way. I have always thought that OH and MI should erect dueling "historical markers" with near identical wording in so far as "At this time in this place our valiant boys fought back the evil invading ". Kinda like what you can find when you go to Canada and read the War of 1812 markers there, and about as important to world history.
@@ProtoNeoVintage It's already cheeky enough of the British that in the Treaty of Ghent they never acceded to the correctness of the American (and only honest) reading of the Treaty of Paris requiring the British to vacate the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio, and only said that they would abide by it. Like, "OK, we'll pretend you were right all along and vacate the premises."
I think the UP would rather be is own state and I can't blame then. They would be so much better if it they didn't have to support the dead cities of Detroit or Flint, hell we would all be better off if we didn't have to support that city. It is beautiful land up there. So much snow.
@@Nathan_Whaley-g8m Detroit was a manufacturing powerhouse. The auto factories were the biggest companies in the world. Good union jobs. The jobs went to Mexico and we have what we have.
@@KevinSmith-dx6xq I never said it wasn't a great city at one time but now it's just a crumbling corrupt mess that takes all the tax money that we could use to have roads that don't destroy your car when you drive in them.
My vote for best silly-war-that-wasn't, goes to the "Pig War". Dispute between US & UK re. border between now state of Washington & BC-Canada. Wherein one Capt. George Pickett of the US Army (yeah, that same guy of later Gettysburg infamy) defied a powerful squadron of British warships. The matter was at long last resolved in arbitration... by Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany. After a 12-YEAR military standoff, the only actual casualty... was the namesake pig.
Thanks for the lesson. I always thought it was weird that the Upper Peninsula was not part of Wisconsin. You need a huge bridge to get from lower Michigan to the UP.
@@williamkoenig7399 and not just that alone... UP lumber went into rebuilding Chicago after the fire in 1871 and Henry Ford used the lumber, iron and copper for his factories and Model T's
@@brentdoolin4791 True! I have to admit I was thinking more about the Keweenaw Peninsula specifically. William Cronon’s book Chicago: Nature’s Metropolis is pretty clear where the timber of north woods went.
My wife is from Michigan and I'm from Wisconsin. The biggest unresolved argument in our marriage is which state is best mapped out with the back of a left hand. She says it's clearly Michigan but then I ask what about the U.P.? When she argues it doesn't matter I yell "Then give us back the U.P. You lost the Toledo War, get over it!" Thank you for explaining my eternal espousal squabble!
@Treg Burk some of us do. Mind you I prefer the artistic footwork & creativity of Ginga vs. the boring kick the ball back and forth in the air of European style "football"... Long Live O Jogo Bonito
As a history buff who was born in Toledo and raised in Maumee, I really enjoyed this episode, including the mention of Two Stickney. One error, however: at 7:30 the town you’re referring to is named Perrysburg, not Perrysville.
. . . relax you B-bergers lol : ) . . . at least you made the cut . . . i grew up in Rossford which wasnt even around at that time so no mention there . . . unless maybe there will be a future history piece on the Rossford LOF plate glass plant and town : ) Thanks for all you Lance!
I drive down Old State Line Rd every day when I go to work. I chuckle everytime I do as I think about this period in our local history. Thank you for doing this video. Would also like to see one eventually on the Battle of the River Raisin.
I recommended this video a while ago on Facebook. I was so excited to see it! You did however miss one key point. The Toledo War is how Michigan became known as The Wolverine State when an Ohio Militia member said that Michigan is holing on to Toledo like a Wolverine.
I grew up in Sylvania, Ohio which lies on the border between the state of Ohio and ichigan. The "war" was known to have little contact between the two forces as they often got lost in the swamps. And the "two towns merge" is evident in the terrible street layout in downtown Toledo
The southern state line for Wisconsin ran south to the southern tip of Lake Michigan at one time. It was the creation of the I&M canal that gave Chicago to Illinois. They (US government) didn't want the canal going between state lines so pushed the border north.
Old State Line Rd is just a few miles from where sit right now and that bronze plaque you showed is just up the road from here. It is interesting to see my own stomping grounds on an episode of The History Guy! Thanks for the lesson in my own history.
I'm from Cass county Michigan... I remember this conflict being mentioned in my 4th grade state history class, but we never went into detail about it, and it was never really brought up again. Thank you for the video!
I would love it if you did a video on the history of the upper peninsula. I live in Houghton which is about as far north as you can get on the keweenaw where the copper mines were located. It surprises me that there has been about no historians talking about the extensive amount of history up here. The copper mines were supplying (I think) the most copper output in the world at this time, having some of the biggest mining company's operating from here. We were a huge boom town getting people from all over the world to work in the mines. Finnish people were hired the most probably based on the amount of snow we get, 200 inches a year. This is also how we got the yooper accent. There is so much history up here like the strike of 1913 and the Italian hall disaster (59 children suffocated to death at a Christmas play on Christmas Eve, 73 dead in total) that almost no body knows about. I would love it if you would make a video on this topic. Like I stated before I have never seen another historian do a video on the Michigan copper mines or the keweenaw and I would love it if you were the first. Edit: if you want to hear a yooper accent then try listening to da yoopers.
You know more than enough history to do the video yourself. I've always had a great time in the UP. The ladies up there love to drink I can't keep up with them... Don't forget the fry bread with your pasty
The level of detail in this episode made me realize that none of these episodes would be possible without the original work of archivists at the time that saved the information about what was going on.
-"Holy" Toledo Here... Which would be Michigan, although its very far outside town where the barn is located. ...Clark,Harrison,Perry & Tecumseh walked here.
Jamie farr is from the "Eastside near tony packo" Which Toledo residents do not consider Toledo. ...However the voice of yogi bear is from here, Mr. Daws Butler
It’s so interesting because this history still effects me. I live walking distance from Toledo, but in Michigan. If Toledo had been in Michigan, my neighborhood would probably be in the city. But the Michigan governments have zoning to keep it less city and more rural. So my rural neighborhood might be in the city of Toledo. That’s cool.
I am on the board of directors of the Hillsdale County Historical Society. Our southern border was effected by this conflict. I will be sharing this video with our members. Once again, I love your content!
One thing residents of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula still resent is that the majority of Americans don’t even know they exist. As recently as a few weeks ago, at least one television company displayed a map showing the Upper Peninsula as being part of Canada. Some maps show it as still being part of Wisconsin, while others will leave the area completely off the map, somehow turning the waters of Michigan, Huron, and Superior into one gigantic lake. My own stepmother, a native of Indiana thought that Michigan only consisted of the mitten, not realizing there was a boot right above it connected by the Mackinac Bridge and it all belonged to my beloved Michigan.
Are Da Yoopers still around? We fans of the Dr. Demento show know a little more about the culture there (even if may be a little exaggerated) because of those guys.
I once had someone in the UP tell me they would rather join Canada, since half of America thinks they are Canada anyhow lol. As a Canadian I found this amusing
@@timmmahhhh As far as I know they are still around. I love them! Even went to their ‘tourist trap’. ( I lived in Ishpeming and Marquette for eleven years. Hope to eventually retire there) If you can find a copy, watch one of the funniest movies I have ever seen: it is a Jeff Daniels movie he wrote and directed called Escanaba in da Moonlight. You will laugh your butt off!
Being a Michigander I've long wondered how the Upper Peninsula became part of Michigan not being attached by land and now only being attached by a bridge. Now I know. Pretty complicated history. Thanks.
In my 52 years, I've lived 48 in Michigan and 4 in Ohio. I love the story of the Toledo War and how Michigan hit the jackpot with the natural resources of the upper peninsula. In Ohio History class (taught in middle school), I would bring up how Michigan was the ultimate victor in the war, which earned the ire of my teacher and classmates. I think the bad blood between Ohio and Michigan can ultimately be traced back to the conflict and is acted out in modern day college football. Michiganders don't think much of Ohioans, but Ohioans downright despise Michiganders.
We here in SE Michigan call Toledo "The Part of Michigan Nobody Wanted" or the Ohio Swampland. :) Where do you think they got the name for their baseball team, The Toledo Mud Hens"?
Grew up in St Joseph County in Michigan and never heard of this! Given that my father was fond of strange local histories, I'm surprised he didn't know about this happening within walking distance of his home town!
I now live in Toledo originally from California this was very informative thank you so much. I have no idea how I ran across this on my UA-cam feed but I'm glad I did again thank you
Wonderfull episode again. I hope I'm fast enough for you to see this suggestion: I would love to see an episode on The battle for Lake Tanganyika. A forgotten WW1 skirmish/battle in Afrika, with one of the ships still cruising the lake today. Either way thanks for your wonderfull work.
Awesome content. As a Michigander, I always wondered how it all came about.. And spending a number of years in the UP.. we definitely got the better end of the deal.
I live in Lucas county Ohio, and we still have the border markers from the conflict, marking Michigan's border claim. Good job History Guy. Now we need a video about Mad Anthony Wayne.
Anthony Wayne, of course, but also his second in command, James Wilkinson who was out to undermine him, and who had sworn oaths of allegiance to both Spain and France, and sucked Aaron Burr into his Texas scheme...
Thank you! I requested and you honored. Well done. It's funny you mentioned old state line road; you're in Ohio now you're in Michigan, wait you're back in toledo and... now you're back in temperance. Anyway, thanks for honoring my hometown.
I learned about this in middle school, thanks to a wonderful teacher who taught us Ohio history. I still find out new details about this, even 40+ years later.
Our Spirits teaches history , much more than enjoyable. So much more educational. Connect so many dots. Thank you history guy. History is alive, repeating itself.
Having grown up in Ohio, somehow I managed to hear a little about this. I searched for information in history books, but little was to be found. Definitely something that's almost lost to history.
I only found out from my history teachers in High School. I grew up in Toledo too so pretty surprising it wasn't taught much. My guess is that we kinda got the worse end of the deal lol
I do believe I saw an old map where Michigan had once extended well into current Wisconsin and maybe a third of Minnesota. It was very interesting to study
I grew up in the Toledo Strip and was not aware of this story until HBO included it in a documentary about The Game. I like the additional details provided here. I now live in "that state up north", but will be a Buckeye for life.
Another great video story on history! By the way, have you ever done a video on the History of pockets? If not, why not? That thought came to me when discussing the "possibles" bag that mountain men carried their essentials in with my grandson
I live just a few hundred feet away from one of the stone border markers from 1915, and a few miles away from philips corners. Imagine my surprise when i first stopped by the sign and read about the “battle” over whats now a small grainery and a bridge over a creek
I grew up a Yooper and have lived most of my life in Michigan. While I knew the basic gist of this story I learned several new things today. Thanks @thehistoryguy
The arctic as the UPER. Very interesting. How the maps would have changed if it wasn't agreed upon. Such as the history of these United States. Learning more thanks to you.
I don’t want you to feel pressure from the audience, but honestly it really makes my day that much better when I get on youtube for the first time of the day and see you’ve posted a new video. I love sending these to my parents and grandparents to share with them these neat little stories. Maybe one day I’ll have the courage to get my voice out there too. Keep up the good work!
@@richardklug822 I think you're mixing up the timelines of Dr.seuss and Thanksgiving. In other words; are you under the impression this all happened in the 1960's?
This was a great story. My wife, born and raised in Ohio and much of her family living in Ohio, had never heard of this border dispute not did she know much of Michigan or Ohio statehood stories. I moved all over the country when I was being raised. My excuse for not knowing statehood history is that we were always moving. I enjoy virtually every story that you post. You remain my favorite UA-cam history channel.
I can not imagine where you two find these nuggets of knowledge. But, I am eternally grateful that you have, and seem to be dedicated to making history fun.
Here in the Upper Peninsula, there is still some remnants of Wisconsin influence. With the exception of Mackinac and Chippewa Counties, we are culturally oriented toward Wisconsin. There are far more Packers and Brewers fans than Lions and Tigers (and especially Bears) fans. The counties bordering Wisconsin are on central time. Broadcast weather forecasts include parts of Wisconsin. Overnight shopping trips are to Green Bay and Appleton. Even worse, our representatives to the legislature from the western counties have a trip each weekend of 10 hours or more door-to-door. We are so far away from Lansing, I like to tell people that the Czar is our master but Moscow is far, far away.
Very interesting I live in Ann Arbor, and visited those sites and driven those old territory line roads etc. Read a lot about it. My mother’s family is from western upper peninsula Michigan. They might of been from Wisconsin if it turned out different!
All of the North-South roads in West Toledo have a shift to the East or West Where the MI-surveyed and the OH-surveyed roads meet, like Secor and Byrne; and Douglas and Westwood, Reynolds at Dorr, Holland-Sylvania, Centennial...
Would really like for you to cover the Penobscot expedition, a revolutionary battle that almost nobody knows much about that took place at Fort George which is today located in Castine Maine. If I recall it’s an unflattering tail for Paul Revere and the Massachusetts militia.
A government surveyor knocked on a Minnesota farmer's door and informed him that a surveying error was discovered. His farm was actually in Wisconsin. The farmer replied "Thank God, I don't know if I could take another Minnesota winter.
😂😂😂
HAHAHAHAHA
GOOD ONE
Keep 'er Movin'
Now that is old school funny thank you
I was born and raised in Toledo. I heard that Ohio lost this dispute, and had to keep Toledo.
I grew up in Michigan. I heard that Ohio lost this dispute, and had to keep Toledo. LOL
Ohio won the dispute and got to keep part of Michigan. 😉
@@theannoyedmrfloyd3998 Yup, you're a winner. LOLOLOL
As a former Toledoan, I am aware Michigan won, by not having to accept Toledo. I am also aware Michigan consists of THREE peninsulas: Upper, Lower, and the two mile square Lost Peninsula, accessable only through Ohio or the water.
Some days, I miss home. 😎
Careful, in round 2 they will give Ohio Detroit.
At 1:27 I say the Mississippi was the eastern boundary of the Northwest Territory. Of course, it was the Western Boundary. I am sorry for the error.
along with perrysburg not perrysville
Just don't talk smack about me not knowing left from right and we good.
With the turn of a phrase THG attempts to alter geographic fact. Lol.
I'm surprised both states didn't try to carve up the young Indiana.
I still hear static in your audio, just another heads up.... I am guessing others are as well.
@@willoughby1888 Some very slight audio compression artefacts, but not what I would call static as such (listen to the audio, not the silences in between as you would for normal "static"). I've heard much worse on UA-cam - stuff that actually does sound like static. Part of the problem is that once you've uploaded a video, as a creator you don't have much control over what UA-cam does with it technically. While the creator may wish that the video and audio is transmitted exactly as it was uploaded, UA-cam are much more interested in maximising the use of storage and processes the upload accordingly. There's not a lot THG can do about it I believe.
This story is a bit more personal in our family lore. My 3Great Grandfather was deeded 120 acres in the Toledo Strip, as compensation for his father being disabled at the Battle of The Thames. They were originally Michigan residents, having lost their homes when Frenchtown, present day Monroe, was burned forcing the family to flee in an open boat out on Lake Erie. There was some anxiety whether my Grandfather would be able to keep his farm if the Ohio claim was upheld. As it turned out, his deed was honored and he lived there raising 18 children, until passing away in 1882.
Very Cool 😎 family History Sir!
For Christ’s sake. How many wife’s did it take him to sire eighteen offspring. My paternal grandfather was one of six kids. The fourth died of pneumonia as the doctor was at the house delivering the sixth one. Then, not to miss out on the attention, the fifth one died a month later. It was a time for the hardy ones.
@@robertqueberg4612 My grandfather was one of 12 kids. An uncle was one of 13.
@@webbtrekker534 ,
In those days, it was expected to lose one or more to disease, or accidents. There is a tall stone in an old local cemetery next to our farm, which shows the deaths of four children, in a period of 4-5 months. Kids were a necessity to the operation of a successful farm, with the amount of physical work to be done. It was a mixed bag of both good and bad. Keep your family safe.
@@robertqueberg4612 More likely the lack of birth control. Grand father born 1881, uncle born 1899.
The war continues to this day every November between The Ohio State Buckeyes, and the Michigan Wolverines.
Go Bucks :)
Michigan continues to lose.
Only in the eyes of that state down south. Our true rival is MSU. We don't give a hoot about that school down on the farm.
P.S. Why did you follow the lead of MSU to become a land-grant college?
And in the eyes of the rest of the country, you both lose!
Not really a war anymore, it’s a slaughter every year.
The Upper Peninsula is among the most amazing and beautiful place in the United States. Lucky the residents of this lovely land.
Lucky until their first winter...
And The Bridge makes it accessible.
Say Ya to da UP Eh.
AND they still make the best pasties!
The 51 st state, eh!!
People that say our country is "more divided than ever" have forgotten our history
Thank you for this one! As a Michigander the "Toledo War" has always been one of my favorite little snippets of forgotten history so I'm happy to see it getting some attention.
Never heard that before. I always thought it was Michiganian, or possibly Michigeese. ;-)
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681,
The Libs tried to change it to Michiganians but us Michiganders weren’t havin’ it!
As an Ohioan I feel the same lol
As an Ohioan I feel the same way. I have always thought that OH and MI should erect dueling "historical markers" with near identical wording in so far as "At this time in this place our valiant boys fought back the evil invading ". Kinda like what you can find when you go to Canada and read the War of 1812 markers there, and about as important to world history.
@@ProtoNeoVintage It's already cheeky enough of the British that in the Treaty of Ghent they never acceded to the correctness of the American (and only honest) reading of the Treaty of Paris requiring the British to vacate the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio, and only said that they would abide by it. Like, "OK, we'll pretend you were right all along and vacate the premises."
We here in Wisconsin would invade and take the UP but have to keep our troops on the Illinois border.
I think the UP would rather be is own state and I can't blame then. They would be so much better if it they didn't have to support the dead cities of Detroit or Flint, hell we would all be better off if we didn't have to support that city. It is beautiful land up there. So much snow.
Shuddup and stir the cheese
@@Nathan_Whaley-g8m Detroit was a manufacturing powerhouse. The auto factories were the biggest companies in the world. Good union jobs. The jobs went to Mexico and we have what we have.
@Popup Target You guys like us to come buy fireworks. Peace.
@@KevinSmith-dx6xq I never said it wasn't a great city at one time but now it's just a crumbling corrupt mess that takes all the tax money that we could use to have roads that don't destroy your car when you drive in them.
I thought I knew a shed load of obscure and ludicrous wars. Once again, THG pulls one out of the bag.
Brilliant. Thank you THG.
This one was featured prominently in "how the States got their names".
But my favorite "war" is still the kerfuffle around Jenkin's ear.
My vote for best silly-war-that-wasn't, goes to the "Pig War". Dispute between US & UK re. border between now state of Washington & BC-Canada. Wherein one Capt. George Pickett of the US Army (yeah, that same guy of later Gettysburg infamy) defied a powerful squadron of British warships. The matter was at long last resolved in arbitration... by Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany. After a 12-YEAR military standoff, the only actual casualty... was the namesake pig.
@@boatrat Stretching the term "war" a bit, but my personal favourite is the Jerusalem ladder war.
Hey, nothing ludicrous, we gained the Upper Peninsula, and me a home that I love.
Thanks for the lesson. I always thought it was weird that the Upper Peninsula was not part of Wisconsin. You need a huge bridge to get from lower Michigan to the UP.
This channel is so underrated
Says the one who joined at 900K
Yep
It's biggest problem is that there aren't any other channels quite like it when you run out
I concur.
truth
I bet this was the last time anyone ever cared so much about Toledo.
Cpl Clinger did. And the entire M.A.S.H. 4077th unit cared about Toledo's ribs.
Woody refused to buy gas in MI.
LOL!!!!!!!
What is wrong with Toledo ?
@@thomassherer5962,
Tony Packo’s Hot Dogs!
The UP is still pretty much "perpetual wilderness", though - beautiful, wonderful wilderness.
Not many know that the UP was essentially clear-cut of its old growth forest before the 20th century and what we see is the recovery.
@@brentdoolin4791 You are correct. Just about every stick standing went into the copper mines or supported mining one way or another.
@@williamkoenig7399 and not just that alone... UP lumber went into rebuilding Chicago after the fire in 1871 and Henry Ford used the lumber, iron and copper for his factories and Model T's
@@brentdoolin4791 True! I have to admit I was thinking more about the Keweenaw Peninsula specifically. William Cronon’s book Chicago: Nature’s Metropolis is pretty clear where the timber of north woods went.
@@williamkoenig7399 ironically 50,000,000 tons of peninsula copper Was mined before Columbus even showed up.... and it wasnt native americans :)
Poor Wisconsin. Showed up at the end of the story and still lost.
Wisconsin got hosed by Illinois too, because the boundary was supposed to be the south end of Lake Michigan.
Serves the Cheeseheads right sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong, LMAO.
Wisconsin eventually won by the birth of America's Football Team, the Green Bay Packers!
I had only heard of this but hadn't gotten the whole story. Thank you for explaining it. As a Michigander, I'm not bothered. I like the UP.
i agree im a life long Michigander and love the up thank you ohio !!!
Ohioan here. But we used to vacation in the UP, and I love it too. Beautiful country.
@@kesmarn Time heals all wounds. I've even forgiven Woody Hayes.
@@yohannbiimu How long to forgive Rich Rodriguez?
@@yohannbiimu Whoa! That's a step too far. Boo Woody.
As a victorious Michigander, I quite enjoyed this episode. I've got a t-shirt with an outline of the upper peninsula captioned "toledo war champs"🤣
I have that shirt, too!
Not Big Ten Champs. They have made those in Michigan for awhile.
You guys up north won. I would rather have the U.P. over Toledo any day.
@Kelly Haines -I-O
But like... y'all lost Toledo to Ohio. You only won if we consider Wisconsin the losers.
As an Ohioan, it's long been my theory that this dispute is of course re-enacted every year at "The Game" (Ohio State vs U Michigan football).
Of course that's what you think. But you still have Toledo!
@@travelinman70 Ohio State usually wins that game. Haha
And once again, we win! Go Bucks!
Apparently Michigan has decided that they want you to keep it...
We think the same in MI, Mr. Buckeye
This is so helpful for family Genealogy ,some family say they wer born in Ohio and others say Michigan in that timeline
Thanks for sharing. As a Michigan boy there were things I learned from this.
My wife is from Michigan and I'm from Wisconsin. The biggest unresolved argument in our marriage is which state is best mapped out with the back of a left hand. She says it's clearly Michigan but then I ask what about the U.P.? When she argues it doesn't matter I yell "Then give us back the U.P. You lost the Toledo War, get over it!"
Thank you for explaining my eternal espousal squabble!
Having lived in the toledo area for the last 20 years I appreciate the insight into my new homes history
I've been to Toledo. I've been to the UP. We Michiganders, definitely got the better deal.
Tru!!
Yeah toledo probably wishes it was in Michigan. Ohio is just a boring state.
Wolverine's !
Who cares about Michigan though like to this day nobody cares Iand upper Michigan is boring afffff
Proud gander here
I heard this story in history class in High School In the 1970's. Living in Ohio, I was always fascinated with this war. Thanks for doing this story.
Did you have the same thin red "Ohio History" book I did when you were in grade school? I'd love to find a copy of that.
Absolutely fascinating bit of history that deserves to be remembered.
"Ohio and Michigan went to war over a 50 year old map, and Wisconsin lost."
That has to be the most amazing random thing I've ever heard
Makes more sense than going to war annually over an oblong-shaped pigskin. I guess Wisconsin is sometimes impacted by that war too. 😉
Ask most "Yoopers" who their favorite NFL Football team is and I bet they say THE Green Bay Packers...
#JustSaying
@@richardkimpel6142 I think the Steelers are Detroit's favorite.
@@afx935 LOL
@Treg Burk some of us do. Mind you I prefer the artistic footwork & creativity of Ginga vs. the boring kick the ball back and forth in the air of European style "football"...
Long Live O Jogo Bonito
Finally someone is covering this! Being from Wisconsin, not even many Wisconsinites know this story!
"And Now you Know the Rest of the Story" - The Late Paul Harvey ( Radio Show ) Would Say at Closing Everyday... Miss That Show...
As a history buff who was born in Toledo and raised in Maumee, I really enjoyed this episode, including the mention of Two Stickney. One error, however: at 7:30 the town you’re referring to is named Perrysburg, not Perrysville.
He also pronounces Maumee incorrectly. Even though there is a U it is pronounced as a W.
Yeah I grew up in Perrysburg and was upset when he called it Perrysville
I'm not from Ohio, but spend some time there, I thought Perryville sounded familiar but not quite right.
Ya that error bugged me as a Perrysburg native lol. Perrysville is near Mansfield.
. . . relax you B-bergers lol : ) . . . at least you made the cut . . . i grew up in Rossford which wasnt even around at that time so no mention there . . . unless maybe there will be a future history piece on the Rossford LOF plate glass plant and town : ) Thanks for all you Lance!
I drive down Old State Line Rd every day when I go to work. I chuckle everytime I do as I think about this period in our local history. Thank you for doing this video. Would also like to see one eventually on the Battle of the River Raisin.
I recommended this video a while ago on Facebook. I was so excited to see it! You did however miss one key point. The Toledo War is how Michigan became known as The Wolverine State when an Ohio Militia member said that Michigan is holing on to Toledo like a Wolverine.
I grew up in Sylvania, Ohio which lies on the border between the state of Ohio and ichigan. The "war" was known to have little contact between the two forces as they often got lost in the swamps.
And the "two towns merge" is evident in the terrible street layout in downtown Toledo
I grew up in Toledo. Have read Don Farber's book a couple of times. Really glad you covered this major, yet largely forgotten, historical event.
The southern state line for Wisconsin ran south to the southern tip of Lake Michigan at one time. It was the creation of the I&M canal that gave Chicago to Illinois. They (US government) didn't want the canal going between state lines so pushed the border north.
“Two Stickney, brother of One Stickney”
Benjamin Stickney, real-life inspiration for the Cat in the Hat?
Are you suggesting they had 2 brothers: Red Stickney & Blue Stickney? ( :
Old State Line Rd is just a few miles from where sit right now and that bronze plaque you showed is just up the road from here. It is interesting to see my own stomping grounds on an episode of The History Guy! Thanks for the lesson in my own history.
I had no idea this went on in my home state of Ohio. I'm originally from Clermont Co. Thank you for the Ohio and Michigan history lesson.
I Grew up and was raised in Toledo,Ohio. Thank you for doing a video on this subject!! Best channel on UA-cam!!
I can 't say either Michigan or Ohio won. Ohio was stuck with Toledo, Michigan is now stuck with a bunch of Yoopers!
I'm from Cass county Michigan... I remember this conflict being mentioned in my 4th grade state history class, but we never went into detail about it, and it was never really brought up again. Thank you for the video!
I always thought it was so random for the UP to be a part of Michigan... now I know why. 😂
I have studied American History for 3 decades. Never "deleved" into things this funny. HOW FUNNY!! LOVE YOUR VIDEOS.
And it still hasn’t ended, only now we fight with footballs 😂
Since The War Between The States of Michigan and Ohio Years Ago The Rivals Especially in Football Haven’t Liked Each Other Since!
Awesome explanation of this "war". Thank you.
I would love it if you did a video on the history of the upper peninsula. I live in Houghton which is about as far north as you can get on the keweenaw where the copper mines were located.
It surprises me that there has been about no historians talking about the extensive amount of history up here. The copper mines were supplying (I think) the most copper output in the world at this time, having some of the biggest mining company's operating from here. We were a huge boom town getting people from all over the world to work in the mines. Finnish people were hired the most probably based on the amount of snow we get, 200 inches a year. This is also how we got the yooper accent.
There is so much history up here like the strike of 1913 and the Italian hall disaster (59 children suffocated to death at a Christmas play on Christmas Eve, 73 dead in total) that almost no body knows about. I would love it if you would make a video on this topic. Like I stated before I have never seen another historian do a video on the Michigan copper mines or the keweenaw and I would love it if you were the first.
Edit: if you want to hear a yooper accent then try listening to da yoopers.
And don't forget the pasties, eh.
He should do a video on the Bath, MI school bombing.
One of the 10th most deadly school massacres...ever!
I love Houghton/Hancock! All the buildings made out of red granite are absolutely gorgeous. Old industrial town.
Steve letho - wrote a book - Covering the Italian Hall Disaster (You Can Find Him on UA-cam)
You know more than enough history to do the video yourself. I've always had a great time in the UP. The ladies up there love to drink I can't keep up with them... Don't forget the fry bread with your pasty
The level of detail in this episode made me realize that none of these episodes would be possible without the original work of archivists at the time that saved the information about what was going on.
I gave this story a thumbs up as I usually give all of your stories, however this one is only a tentative one as I am a Wisconsinite!
Thank you for doing a video on this! It's an important piece of Michigan history that nobody knows!
-"Holy" Toledo Here... Which would be Michigan, although its very far outside town where the barn is located. ...Clark,Harrison,Perry & Tecumseh walked here.
Jamie farr is from the "Eastside near tony packo" Which Toledo residents do not consider Toledo. ...However the voice of yogi bear is from here, Mr. Daws Butler
@@abearbrown1594 Don't forget Danny Thomas. Refs to Toledo were a part of his schtick in his TV shows.
correct you know your history.
@@abearbrown1594 hmmm, tony packo...yum...
And the Jamie Farr Classic is in....? Toledo!
Great video as always. Another part of history previously unknown to me.
It’s so interesting because this history still effects me. I live walking distance from Toledo, but in Michigan. If Toledo had been in Michigan, my neighborhood would probably be in the city. But the Michigan governments have zoning to keep it less city and more rural. So my rural neighborhood might be in the city of Toledo. That’s cool.
Oh you live in that really nice suburb of Toledo haha. I’m always lost when I go there, it’s like a grey zone between the two states
I recommend this topic months ago. I thought it was forgotten. Thank you THG you did a wonderful job.
Oh, I am sure someone have already posted this, but I still have to: "Holy Toledo!!"
I’m from Ohio. The best explanation I have heard about the Michigan and Ohio dispute.
Can confirm: Wisconsin still salty about this.
I am on the board of directors of the Hillsdale County Historical Society. Our southern border was effected by this conflict. I will be sharing this video with our members. Once again, I love your content!
One thing residents of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula still resent is that the majority of Americans don’t even know they exist. As recently as a few weeks ago, at least one television company displayed a map showing the Upper Peninsula as being part of Canada. Some maps show it as still being part of Wisconsin, while others will leave the area completely off the map, somehow turning the waters of Michigan, Huron, and Superior into one gigantic lake. My own stepmother, a native of Indiana thought that Michigan only consisted of the mitten, not realizing there was a boot right above it connected by the Mackinac Bridge and it all belonged to my beloved Michigan.
I've driven across the UP. It is some of the prettiest scenery in the US.
Are Da Yoopers still around? We fans of the Dr. Demento show know a little more about the culture there (even if may be a little exaggerated) because of those guys.
I once had someone in the UP tell me they would rather join Canada, since half of America thinks they are Canada anyhow lol. As a Canadian I found this amusing
@@timmmahhhh As far as I know they are still around. I love them! Even went to their ‘tourist trap’. ( I lived in Ishpeming and Marquette for eleven years. Hope to eventually retire there)
If you can find a copy, watch one of the funniest movies I have ever seen: it is a Jeff Daniels movie he wrote and directed called Escanaba in da Moonlight. You will laugh your butt off!
Being a Michigander I've long wondered how the Upper Peninsula became part of Michigan not being attached by land and now only being attached by
a bridge. Now I know. Pretty complicated history. Thanks.
In my 52 years, I've lived 48 in Michigan and 4 in Ohio. I love the story of the Toledo War and how Michigan hit the jackpot with the natural resources of the upper peninsula. In Ohio History class (taught in middle school), I would bring up how Michigan was the ultimate victor in the war, which earned the ire of my teacher and classmates. I think the bad blood between Ohio and Michigan can ultimately be traced back to the conflict and is acted out in modern day college football. Michiganders don't think much of Ohioans, but Ohioans downright despise Michiganders.
Thank you for the history lesson! I always wondered how the U.P. and the Ohio border with Michigan came about. Fascinating!
We here in SE Michigan call Toledo "The Part of Michigan Nobody Wanted" or the Ohio Swampland. :) Where do you think they got the name for their baseball team, The Toledo Mud Hens"?
But you're stuck with Detoilet...
Grew up in St Joseph County in Michigan and never heard of this! Given that my father was fond of strange local histories, I'm surprised he didn't know about this happening within walking distance of his home town!
No doubt about American history. It's so well recorded, and so often exceptionally funny, that it deserves much more recognition than it gets.
I now live in Toledo originally from California this was very informative thank you so much. I have no idea how I ran across this on my UA-cam feed but I'm glad I did again thank you
Wonderfull episode again. I hope I'm fast enough for you to see this suggestion: I would love to see an episode on The battle for Lake Tanganyika. A forgotten WW1 skirmish/battle in Afrika, with one of the ships still cruising the lake today.
Either way thanks for your wonderfull work.
Talk about it some in this episode ua-cam.com/video/SIDo_KOxTU4/v-deo.html
Awesome content. As a Michigander, I always wondered how it all came about.. And spending a number of years in the UP.. we definitely got the better end of the deal.
I live in Lucas county Ohio, and we still have the border markers from the conflict, marking Michigan's border claim.
Good job History Guy.
Now we need a video about Mad Anthony Wayne.
I grew up there! I agree about Anthony Wayne.
Anthony Wayne, of course, but also his second in command, James Wilkinson who was out to undermine him, and who had sworn oaths of allegiance to both Spain and France, and sucked Aaron Burr into his Texas scheme...
@@dinahnicest6525 And also Lewis and Clark meeting each other while stationed at Fort Meigs, during the war of 1812.
I'm named after him. First and middle name.
Thank you! I requested and you honored.
Well done. It's funny you mentioned old state line road; you're in Ohio now you're in Michigan, wait you're back in toledo and... now you're back in temperance. Anyway, thanks for honoring my hometown.
Sweet I'm over 50 years old and I never knew this learn something new everyday
I learned about this in middle school, thanks to a wonderful teacher who taught us Ohio history. I still find out new details about this, even 40+ years later.
Really interesting. US history have many unknown episodes. I have no idea. Greetings from Chile.😊
Greetings from Michigan!!
Our Spirits teaches history , much more than enjoyable. So much more educational. Connect so many dots. Thank you history guy. History is alive, repeating itself.
Having grown up in Ohio, somehow I managed to hear a little about this. I searched for information in history books, but little was to be found. Definitely something that's almost lost to history.
I only found out from my history teachers in High School. I grew up in Toledo too so pretty surprising it wasn't taught much. My guess is that we kinda got the worse end of the deal lol
@@ArcherIndustries yep, ohio was the ultimate loser ;)
Great history lesson... Learn from and never forget ..
As a Wisconsin native, I always wondered we the U.P. was a part of Michigan and not Wisconsin. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do believe I saw an old map where Michigan had once extended well into current Wisconsin and maybe a third of Minnesota. It was very interesting to study
I grew up in the Toledo Strip and was not aware of this story until HBO included it in a documentary about The Game. I like the additional details provided here. I now live in "that state up north", but will be a Buckeye for life.
Another great video story on history! By the way, have you ever done a video on the History of pockets? If not, why not? That thought came to me when discussing the "possibles" bag that mountain men carried their essentials in with my grandson
I live just a few hundred feet away from one of the stone border markers from 1915, and a few miles away from philips corners. Imagine my surprise when i first stopped by the sign and read about the “battle” over whats now a small grainery and a bridge over a creek
Today’s war would be “you take Toledo.”
“I don’t want you take it”
......
Bir Tawil.
After reading your comment, I was laughing for a half hour with tears. I guess you are right on these.
Great Vlog....I grew up in the North side of Toledo....I used to ride my bike into an Michigan called the Lost Peninsula....Thanks...
Very interesting. Perhaps the State of Franklin next?
I grew up a Yooper and have lived most of my life in Michigan. While I knew the basic gist of this story I learned several new things today. Thanks @thehistoryguy
This was one of your better ones, and the title is brilliant.
The arctic as the UPER. Very interesting. How the maps would have changed if it wasn't agreed upon. Such as the history of these United States. Learning more thanks to you.
Really fascinating! I've long wondered why the UP was part of Michigan...
There was a cable TV series called "How the States Got Their Shapes." It was pretty good.
@@tncorgi92 Thanks! I've actually seen a couple of episodes of that show, but clearly must have missed the one that covered this.
I don’t want you to feel pressure from the audience, but honestly it really makes my day that much better when I get on youtube for the first time of the day and see you’ve posted a new video. I love sending these to my parents and grandparents to share with them these neat little stories. Maybe one day I’ll have the courage to get my voice out there too. Keep up the good work!
Best part of this entire story is the two brothers named 1 and 2.
Maybe inspiration for Thing 1 and Thing 2 from "The Cat in the Hat"?
Would that make them the brothers Three?
@@richardklug822 I think you're mixing up the timelines of Dr.seuss and Thanksgiving. In other words; are you under the impression this all happened in the 1960's?
@@BobbinMcferry I think you misunderstood the intent of my comment...it was a joke! Next time I'll add a :^).
@@richardklug822 Sorry Richard.. get slapped by enough stupid and you forget it can be different..
This was a great story. My wife, born and raised in Ohio and much of her family living in Ohio, had never heard of this border dispute not did she know much of Michigan or Ohio statehood stories. I moved all over the country when I was being raised. My excuse for not knowing statehood history is that we were always moving.
I enjoy virtually every story that you post. You remain my favorite UA-cam history channel.
I was born in Toledo and this was something i learned about in school when I was young.
I can not imagine where you two find these nuggets of knowledge. But, I am eternally grateful that you have, and seem to be dedicated to making history fun.
the History Dude comes through with another one
I wish there were more documentary films on subjects such as this. Thanks for sharing!!!
Here in the Upper Peninsula, there is still some remnants of Wisconsin influence. With the exception of Mackinac and Chippewa Counties, we are culturally oriented toward Wisconsin. There are far more Packers and Brewers fans than Lions and Tigers (and especially Bears) fans. The counties bordering Wisconsin are on central time. Broadcast weather forecasts include parts of Wisconsin. Overnight shopping trips are to Green Bay and Appleton. Even worse, our representatives to the legislature from the western counties have a trip each weekend of 10 hours or more door-to-door. We are so far away from Lansing, I like to tell people that the Czar is our master but Moscow is far, far away.
Is the boundary between Mackinac /Chipewa Counties and the counties west of them what the state line would have been?
Yet another way in which da UP & Siberia are alike.
Very interesting I live in Ann Arbor, and visited those sites and driven those old territory line roads etc. Read a lot about it. My mother’s family is from western upper peninsula Michigan. They might of been from Wisconsin if it turned out different!
Being from Michigan. My family loves the UP of Michigan. Michigan still fights Ohio each year on the football field.
All of the North-South roads in West Toledo have a shift to the East or West Where the MI-surveyed and the OH-surveyed roads meet, like Secor and Byrne; and Douglas and Westwood, Reynolds at Dorr, Holland-Sylvania, Centennial...
Would really like for you to cover the Penobscot expedition, a revolutionary battle that almost nobody knows much about that took place at Fort George which is today located in Castine Maine. If I recall it’s an unflattering tail for Paul Revere and the Massachusetts militia.
That explains the odd borders of state Michigan .... thanks Mr History Guy!
I’m from Toledo, this is a news story that comes up every couple of years.
Typically when there is a certain college football game.
There today is Perrysburg, near south of Toledo, but no Perrysville. Current town of Perrysville, OH is some 2 hour drive away, across the state.