I believe the skill of your playing covers up the cheaper instruments. You really make all of them sound good. But like you said play ability of the cheaper instruments makes it harder to do some harder songs perhaps. Great video!!! 👍
I picked up a secondhand Westfield A-style for £70.00 (about $90.00). It's solid Spruce top and as new condition but I know why. The poor thing needed some tlc, but after slightly deepening the nut groves for the E strings (it was buzzing like a pissed off bee on the first fret), then sorting out and repositioning the bridge, Putting some decent strings on, it plays beautifully. Anyone who doesn't have club hands but does have a little patience can make a £100/$100 mandolin play pretty well.
Im poor polish high school student but recently I’ve spent almost all of my money for a mandolin. (I won’t eat lunch for next few months but it was worth it lol)
That was me when I closed my eyes. I have a $110 Donner starter and have played a Kentucky just like the one demoed here. The guys I play with (bluegrass) couldn’t tell the difference in the 2. At age 66 and a 50+ year guitar player, I can usually tell the difference in cheap vs quality - but this was very hard to separate.
There are 4 things I think don't translate well in videos like this: Playability/comfort, volume/projection, body resonance, and tuning stability. In the case of 1-3, what you hear and feel as a player matters just as much as what the person in front of your mandolin hears. Some cheaper mandolins project outwards well, but don't vibrate or send volume back to the players ear that well for some reason. This can lead to playing with too much volume in quiet settings, or in loud jams it can lead to not being able to hear yourself at all. I don't know why this happens, but my Northfield is significantly louder than my Eastman to my ears in a jam, but standing in front of them while someone else plays them, the difference in volume is much more subtle. My friend also noticed a similar thing with Collings dreadnoughts we tried. They were the loudest guitars in the store if you're standing in front of them while someone else was playing them, but other guitars seemed louder to the person that was playing them then the Collings dreads did Interesting stuff.
I had a similar experience with a luthier made mandola. To the player, it felt like a mini shock wave going through the body, but stood in front it didn't sound overly loud. Strange stuff.
Rather than fast melodies, tone (good & bad) is more easily judged with long tones - where it’s easier to judge such factors as overtones (richness, “color” & “character.” Also, balance in response becomes more obvious. Test double stops - can you clearly hear each voice, or does it sound like a turtle farting into the mud?
I have a friend who is a world class trumpet player, who’s toured and performed with jazz royalty (Sinatra, Bennet, Ferguson,Wynton and Branford Marsalis). Walter works on long tones for at least 2 hours / day. Same can be said for serious violinists and fiddlers I know. Please redo this video to truly show how badly cheap instruments do when asked to sustain a note or voice harmonies.
How can the speakers (cell phone), and compression of UA-cam really allow us to know the difference. Maybe that's more reason they sound alike. ... Making the point, how do $30,000 B&W speakers sound on a cell phone for comparison?
Purchased a like new mandolin for 20 bucks at a local goodwill store(list price on this model new was around130) It will suit me just fine till i learn how to play the thing and decide whether or not it's even an instrument i want to persue. Fellow mandolin newbies may want to consider the el cheapo goodwill/pawnshop route as well
No chop chord comparisons? I think that's where a lot of the sound difference lies. I went to a music store last week and played a bunch of them ($300-$600 range) and it was surprising to see how many did not have the bridge properly sanded to the top. It's good to learn about the construction and setup details so you can evaluate before buying.
As beautiful as the custom 11K mandolin is, I actually prefer the Kentucky in terms of sound. Thank you. Definitely going to go with that for my first mandolin
After hearing the differences in the mandolins, I've come to the conclusion that it's the player that really makes a difference. I bought the 120.00 dollar Left-handed Vangoa and love it but don't like the 350.00 dollar Ortega.
Northfields are great, but you don’t see used ones come up for sale that often for a reason. I was looking for one or a Montana made Flatiron Festival F for a while. Couldn’t find one, so just bought a new Gibson F5G.
This video proves that it’s all about the player and less about the mandolin. It’s honestly really subtle in the differences, due to your extremely high skill level! :)
Unless it's a mid range Eastman mandolin. The best mandolin I ever owned was an Eastman F-Style that was retail $750 and on sale for like $650. Still miss that mandolin, never should have parted with it.
Looking to gift my nephews a mandolin. My father had one when I was growing up. My boys aren’t necessarily blue grass although I’m a Ricky Skaggs fan. I enjoyed your video. Just the word ‘Kentucky’ sounds good when shopping for a mandolin. Staying in tune and easy to tune is important. So thanks, I’ll be spending 3 to 4 hundred it looks like.
I closed my eyes and listened and I could hear very little differences. Discomfort and set up playability issues can be easily compensated for by a person such as yourself. I think you may notice it but the listeners would be clueless while your playing would be uninterrupted by issues from a bad set up.. I have a "like new" older F model Fullerton, a little string buzz and maybe some tone dullness overall. But finding a quality luthier is becoming very difficult.
Hi everyone. I am the truest of beginners. I'm not hearing any significant difference in tone. Could you let me know if you do? If so, what is the difference. It also may be because David is such a great player that his skill and talent is covering for the faults of the instrument.
There's no question that the Vanguard: Is easier and more pleasant to play; stays in tune; is a finer mandolin in all aspects. And clearly the Vangoa is so frustrating that it would quickly find it's way to the closet. But just listening to you play (wonderfully of course), the sound of the Vanguard is absolutely not worth $10,000 more. For a professional musician, the extra cost is justified when the instrument inspires you in some way, resulting in increased desire to play and try new things. I think most people would find inspiration from the Kentucky, and I would be afraid to even touch the Vanguard for fear of damaging it!
I tried a Mulucky $119 mandolin as a beginner. So much set up work was required I sent it back to Amazon. I think I will try to play a beginner Kentucky or Eastman. I need to take a loan out.
I just picked up one of the cheapos marketed as a Rover, I'm a guitar player but at the price it was like yep, grab it and play. I can visually see where things fall short like on the built quality but honestly it's staying in tune reasonably and I kinda like the sound. I think cheap instruments are a blast because it's about playing the music. And I think a lot of poeple forget that.
It looks like the protective film is still on the cheap one's pick guard or is it just that dull looking? My plywood mandolin looks like a million bucks once I figured out I needed to take that film off. 😂
Excellent video and comparison. I would love to see something in the middle, such as a comparison between $500, $3,000 and $10,000. I seem to remember that you used to own a flat iron which is about the $3K mark. Could that be a potential future video?
This is very informative and probably confirms what others have said about the importance of who is playing the instrument. I'm mainly a fiddler, and with fiddlers what matters most is the "nut at the end of the bow". I have been humbled by trying to compare different violins in blind situations. It's very easy to just face away from the player and then have them play different instruments to see whether you can tell them apart or even describe their tonal differences. People tend to hear with their eyes. As a player, it really matters how well the instrument responds, how easy it plays and what it sounds like to you, but if you are playing in a band on stage to an audience, then nearly all of your listeners aren't going to be able to tell whether you are playing a fine luthier built mandolin or just a decent factory model. I believe there can be a lot of variability among mandolins of the same model. I also believe that once in awhile a luthier will build a mandolin that is better than his average. Several years ago, I had a friend who owned what he called the Golden Gilchrist. It was an A5 model made of birdseye maple. it was one of those mandolins. We were camping at a festival with a road about 50 yards from our camp. He would chop a chord on it and people walking along the road would immediately turn their heads toward the sound. This was with all kinds of other background noise going on.
I got a Vangoa 5-String Banjo 2 Years ago. Parts of the Tone Ring would fall off, really suseptible to dings, scratches, and the action was stupendously annoying to deal with, which also made intonation "fun" to deal with. Still, for my first ever instrument, I learned quite a lot about how to maintain, what music I like, and the playing style I truly like is perfect for traveling and playing in college.
I am very happy with my Eastman 505. I do hear that more expensive mandolins have more nuances in tone. Maybe one day I can afford a more expensive mandolin. But at my mandolin now does everything what I need :-)
Suggestion. On those cheaper mandolin bridges the action as you say does not go low enough. My experience on setting these up is to drill the top or the bridge straight through where the screws are on each side. You'll find then you'll get full adjustment of the thumb wheels. !
I got out my Sony full ear headphones for this through my Denon receiver and to me the tonal differences are almost indistinguishable. I don't know that I would honestly be able to blindly tell the difference, very subtle. That being said the crappy quality of a $100 mandolin is a false economy. You had to do at least $100 worth of work on it and it is still a POS. Funny I paid $70 for my Harmony mandolin in 1978 and it's still a POS compared to the Kentucky today... It's definitely a diminishing return on investment as you go up on price, but I've never regretted buying the best instrument I could afford.
interesting stuff. the $120 instrument sounded thin and tinny to me, The difference between the Kentucky and the Apitus was much smaller, maybe the Apitus sounded more three dimensional, does that make sense?. Sadly we can't all try an Apitus , Kentucky and Vangoa for comfort and playability. Would I pay $10K around £8k sterling. No, I just ain't good enough. I'd buy a top end Kentucky though.
I bought the Vangoa for $120 because I was curious of the feel and if I would even like the instrument. I have wasted $120 on other hobbies before so I wasn't that worried if the quality was bad just to get my toes wet. Thankfully I was impressed with the instrument and for my skills I found it to be great to learn on. I like your teaching style and I have already learned so much from just a handful of videos. Keep them coming.
The cheap one sounds very thin and tinny.. The Kentucky sounds similar to the Apitius but the Apitius has a definite warm, mellow tone...which you'd expect for the money (that's $15,000 Aud ) . I have an Ibanez electric....hate it.. tinny as, an Eastman 315... love it (currently has the wrong strings on it and about to have pickups installed), and an Eastman 604 (totally different again)
Interesting comparison. Cheep mando very tinny. $500 sounded amazingly for the price. I'll put my money on that one if I'm ever shopping for a new mando.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! The main difference is probably caused by the different types (shapes) of the mandolins'. The Apitus sounds like a well played, broken-in, classic F-style. Whereas the $100 one sounds a bit out of tune when the notes fade out.
Mandolins are like speakers, $500 sounds noticeably better than 100 but 10k is just somewhat better than $500. Great vids by the way
I believe the skill of your playing covers up the cheaper instruments.
You really make all of them sound good.
But like you said play ability of the cheaper instruments makes it harder to do some harder songs perhaps.
Great video!!! 👍
I should add that if you’re not looking to play bluegrass, you can get a pro quality flattop for an extremely competitive price.
I picked up a secondhand Westfield A-style for £70.00 (about $90.00). It's solid Spruce top and as new condition but I know why. The poor thing needed some tlc, but after slightly deepening the nut groves for the E strings (it was buzzing like a pissed off bee on the first fret), then sorting out and repositioning the bridge, Putting some decent strings on, it plays beautifully.
Anyone who doesn't have club hands but does have a little patience can make a £100/$100 mandolin play pretty well.
Im poor polish high school student but recently I’ve spent almost all of my money for a mandolin. (I won’t eat lunch for next few months but it was worth it lol)
Też gram. Jeden z lepszych instrumentów, czyż nie? 🤩
@@Folk_quartet taaak
@@d_and_ właśnie mam w planach zakup oktawowej eastmana. (Podobno bardzo dobra). (Też będę obgryzać tynk😅)
aku pun begitu. sangat mahal mandolin. aku hanya memiliki satu mandolin level beginner
You can hear the difference. But to its credit, the cheapest sounds like an instrument you can get started with.
You make all three sound good. I honestly can't hear any difference between them.
That was me when I closed my eyes. I have a $110 Donner starter and have played a Kentucky just like the one demoed here. The guys I play with (bluegrass) couldn’t tell the difference in the 2. At age 66 and a 50+ year guitar player,
I can usually tell the difference in cheap vs quality - but this was very hard to separate.
There are 4 things I think don't translate well in videos like this:
Playability/comfort, volume/projection, body resonance, and tuning stability. In the case of 1-3, what you hear and feel as a player matters just as much as what the person in front of your mandolin hears. Some cheaper mandolins project outwards well, but don't vibrate or send volume back to the players ear that well for some reason. This can lead to playing with too much volume in quiet settings, or in loud jams it can lead to not being able to hear yourself at all. I don't know why this happens, but my Northfield is significantly louder than my Eastman to my ears in a jam, but standing in front of them while someone else plays them, the difference in volume is much more subtle.
My friend also noticed a similar thing with Collings dreadnoughts we tried. They were the loudest guitars in the store if you're standing in front of them while someone else was playing them, but other guitars seemed louder to the person that was playing them then the Collings dreads did
Interesting stuff.
I had a similar experience with a luthier made mandola.
To the player, it felt like a mini shock wave going through the body, but stood in front it didn't sound overly loud. Strange stuff.
Rather than fast melodies, tone (good & bad) is more easily judged with long tones - where it’s easier to judge such factors as overtones (richness, “color” & “character.” Also, balance in response becomes more obvious. Test double stops - can you clearly hear each voice, or does it sound like a turtle farting into the mud?
I have a friend who is a world class trumpet player, who’s toured and performed with jazz royalty (Sinatra, Bennet, Ferguson,Wynton and Branford Marsalis). Walter works on long tones for at least 2 hours / day. Same can be said for serious violinists and fiddlers I know. Please redo this video to truly show how badly cheap instruments do when asked to sustain a note or voice harmonies.
How can the speakers (cell phone), and compression of UA-cam really allow us to know the difference. Maybe that's more reason they sound alike. ... Making the point, how do $30,000 B&W speakers sound on a cell phone for comparison?
Purchased a like new mandolin for 20 bucks at a local goodwill store(list price on this model new was around130) It will suit me just fine till i learn how to play the thing and decide whether or not it's even an instrument i want to persue. Fellow mandolin newbies may want to consider the el cheapo goodwill/pawnshop route as well
No chop chord comparisons? I think that's where a lot of the sound difference lies. I went to a music store last week and played a bunch of them ($300-$600 range) and it was surprising to see how many did not have the bridge properly sanded to the top. It's good to learn about the construction and setup details so you can evaluate before buying.
The more expensive to my ear has a warmer, clear tone, however is it wroth the price tag? I don't think so.
I think if you are professional level, and can only play 80% of your capacity because you are bottle-knecked at the instrument, then it is worth it.
Can you say anything about how a radius fretboard affects the playability?
As beautiful as the custom 11K mandolin is, I actually prefer the Kentucky in terms of sound. Thank you. Definitely going to go with that for my first mandolin
A good player can make a poor instrument sound pretty good. Well done😊
Iv got a Kentucky KM-250 and it’s got getting tone and volume than an Eastman 815 I own too.
I don't play the mandolin and if I did a blind test I wouldn't know which one is "best", maybe I'd choose the $500.00 one
After hearing the differences in the mandolins, I've come to the conclusion that it's the player that really makes a difference. I bought the 120.00 dollar Left-handed Vangoa and love it but don't like the 350.00 dollar Ortega.
Want the in-between? Get a used Northfield A. $2-3k.
Or the higher end of Kentucky or Eastman - I have an Eastman MD805 that sounds wonderful; I prefer it by far to my old Kentucky KM-150.
Northfields are great, but you don’t see used ones come up for sale that often for a reason. I was looking for one or a Montana made Flatiron Festival F for a while. Couldn’t find one, so just bought a new Gibson F5G.
This video proves that it’s all about the player and less about the mandolin. It’s honestly really subtle in the differences, due to your extremely high skill level! :)
I always say go for what ever feels best to play that’s within your budget
Unless it's a mid range Eastman mandolin. The best mandolin I ever owned was an Eastman F-Style that was retail $750 and on sale for like $650. Still miss that mandolin, never should have parted with it.
Looking to gift my nephews a mandolin. My father had one when I was growing up. My boys aren’t necessarily blue grass although I’m a Ricky Skaggs fan. I enjoyed your video. Just the word ‘Kentucky’ sounds good when shopping for a mandolin. Staying in tune and easy to tune is important. So thanks, I’ll be spending 3 to 4 hundred it looks like.
I closed my eyes and listened and I could hear very little differences. Discomfort and set up playability issues can be easily compensated for by a person such as yourself. I think you may notice it but the listeners would be clueless while your playing would be uninterrupted by issues from a bad set up.. I have a "like new" older F model Fullerton, a little string buzz and maybe some tone dullness overall. But finding a quality luthier is becoming very difficult.
I've got news for you, Gibson's'' finest hollow body electric guitars have pressed plywood tops,
What do you think of Kentucky mandolins?
Hi everyone. I am the truest of beginners. I'm not hearing any significant difference in tone. Could you let me know if you do? If so, what is the difference. It also may be because David is such a great player that his skill and talent is covering for the faults of the instrument.
For me the sound difference is very very subtle and I don't think worth the 9,500 extra dollars.
There's no question that the Vanguard: Is easier and more pleasant to play; stays in tune; is a finer mandolin in all aspects. And clearly the Vangoa is so frustrating that it would quickly find it's way to the closet.
But just listening to you play (wonderfully of course), the sound of the Vanguard is absolutely not worth $10,000 more. For a professional musician, the extra cost is justified when the instrument inspires you in some way, resulting in increased desire to play and try new things.
I think most people would find inspiration from the Kentucky, and I would be afraid to even touch the Vanguard for fear of damaging it!
I tried a Mulucky $119 mandolin as a beginner. So much set up work was required I sent it back to Amazon.
I think I will try to play a beginner Kentucky or Eastman. I need to take a loan out.
I just picked up one of the cheapos marketed as a Rover, I'm a guitar player but at the price it was like yep, grab it and play. I can visually see where things fall short like on the built quality but honestly it's staying in tune reasonably and I kinda like the sound. I think cheap instruments are a blast because it's about playing the music. And I think a lot of poeple forget that.
A $10,000 mandolin is not the very next step up from a cheap mandolin.
Hi!
Hooe you are not so busy!
Can you say something about Caraya ma-001- bs
Do you know something about it?
It looks like the protective film is still on the cheap one's pick guard or is it just that dull looking? My plywood mandolin looks like a million bucks once I figured out I needed to take that film off. 😂
Excellent video and comparison. I would love to see something in the middle, such as a comparison between $500, $3,000 and $10,000. I seem to remember that you used to own a flat iron which is about the $3K mark. Could that be a potential future video?
This is very informative and probably confirms what others have said about the importance of who is playing the instrument. I'm mainly a fiddler, and with fiddlers what matters most is the "nut at the end of the bow". I have been humbled by trying to compare different violins in blind situations. It's very easy to just face away from the player and then have them play different instruments to see whether you can tell them apart or even describe their tonal differences. People tend to hear with their eyes. As a player, it really matters how well the instrument responds, how easy it plays and what it sounds like to you, but if you are playing in a band on stage to an audience, then nearly all of your listeners aren't going to be able to tell whether you are playing a fine luthier built mandolin or just a decent factory model. I believe there can be a lot of variability among mandolins of the same model. I also believe that once in awhile a luthier will build a mandolin that is better than his average. Several years ago, I had a friend who owned what he called the Golden Gilchrist. It was an A5 model made of birdseye maple. it was one of those mandolins. We were camping at a festival with a road about 50 yards from our camp. He would chop a chord on it and people walking along the road would immediately turn their heads toward the sound. This was with all kinds of other background noise going on.
I got a Vangoa 5-String Banjo 2 Years ago. Parts of the Tone Ring would fall off, really suseptible to dings, scratches, and the action was stupendously annoying to deal with, which also made intonation "fun" to deal with.
Still, for my first ever instrument, I learned quite a lot about how to maintain, what music I like, and the playing style I truly like is perfect for traveling and playing in college.
I am very happy with my Eastman 505. I do hear that more expensive mandolins have more nuances in tone. Maybe one day I can afford a more expensive mandolin. But at my mandolin now does everything what I need :-)
Suggestion. On those cheaper mandolin bridges the action as you say does not go low enough. My experience on setting these up is to drill the top or the bridge straight through where the screws are on each side. You'll find then you'll get full adjustment of the thumb wheels. !
Big jump from $500 to $10,000.
I got out my Sony full ear headphones for this through my Denon receiver and to me the tonal differences are almost indistinguishable. I don't know that I would honestly be able to blindly tell the difference, very subtle.
That being said the crappy quality of a $100 mandolin is a false economy. You had to do at least $100 worth of work on it and it is still a POS.
Funny I paid $70 for my Harmony mandolin in 1978 and it's still a POS compared to the Kentucky today...
It's definitely a diminishing return on investment as you go up on price, but I've never regretted buying the best instrument I could afford.
interesting stuff. the $120 instrument sounded thin and tinny to me, The difference between the Kentucky and the Apitus was much smaller, maybe the Apitus sounded more three dimensional, does that make sense?. Sadly we can't all try an Apitus , Kentucky and Vangoa for comfort and playability. Would I pay $10K around £8k sterling. No, I just ain't good enough. I'd buy a top end Kentucky though.
I bought the Vangoa for $120 because I was curious of the feel and if I would even like the instrument. I have wasted $120 on other hobbies before so I wasn't that worried if the quality was bad just to get my toes wet. Thankfully I was impressed with the instrument and for my skills I found it to be great to learn on. I like your teaching style and I have already learned so much from just a handful of videos. Keep them coming.
The cheap one sounds very thin and tinny.. The Kentucky sounds similar to the Apitius but the Apitius has a definite warm, mellow tone...which you'd expect for the money (that's $15,000 Aud ) . I have an Ibanez electric....hate it.. tinny as, an Eastman 315... love it (currently has the wrong strings on it and about to have pickups installed), and an Eastman 604 (totally different again)
I'm excited to hear how good the new epiphone mandolin is cause epiphones been making some good guitars lately and this mandolin looks pretty good
Interesting comparison. Cheep mando very tinny. $500 sounded amazingly for the price. I'll put my money on that one if I'm ever shopping for a new mando.
I could hear a difference, as the price went up the sharp Ness in the notes reduced. By the way what tunes were you playing during this test.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
The main difference is probably caused by the different types (shapes) of the mandolins'.
The Apitus sounds like a well played, broken-in, classic F-style.
Whereas the $100 one sounds a bit out of tune when the notes fade out.
Great videos! I'm buying a Kentucky KM-250.