I think it's absolutely fascinating how we three individuals have had such different responses to this interview! For context, I'm a thirty year old who has had various aspects of myself politicized against my will, which has admittedly begun to shape my political stances and general worldview. I had clicked on this in the hopes of hearing some wisdom from The Margaret Atwood, and as it turns out I've actually reached many of these conclusions on my own, independent of her insight. I'm actually having a really hard time with this bc I'm finding her contributions here to be incredibly condescending? And I really don't like considering the wisdom of my elders to be "condescending." Despite my misgivings, I can't shake the feeling that I'm being talked down to... I suppose I simply wasn't the target audience for this conversation.
@@arbyswitch5580 - Interesting! What you perceive as "condescension", I experience as "a dry sense of humour". I may be "immune" to this in part because Ms. Atwood very much reminds me of my high school art teacher, another wise woman with a dry sense of humour who did _not_ suffer fools gladly--and when you're an art teacher, that's a tall order! I don't think it's meant to be condescending, but I'm not here to tell you how you should feel.
@@jlevogiani2012 honestly I appreciate you saying that. I'm a bit wry myself, and feel a bit silly for not considering that (much more graceful) interpretation of her tone. Thank you 😊 I really do respect MA so I appreciate and welcome gentle pushback on my initial response.
How has this been here a day and nobody’s gushing about how one of their favourite UA-camrs is up here in the comments? I apologise on behalf of the community, we have failed you
Jon-Thank you for not being one of those hosts who are constantly interrupting your guests with inane comments, talking over the guest, asking questions that don’t matter and, worst of all, pushing their own opinions, especially when they disagree with the guest. A host who actually listens is a rare thing. I am in search of more of your podcasts.
Yes, you could see Jon was really listening and thinking about what Ms. Atwood said. Very refreshing and it made for such an interesting, deep conversation.
Often times, hosts are bored with their vapid "celebrity guest" and feel they have to " fill in the blanks" with noise. Not so these two; absolutely charming.
I have said this before and will say it again here. “The Handmaid’s Tale” should be read by all females from teens on up, and should be required reading for all. It should never be banned! Thank you for this interview, Jon. Thank you for “The Handmaid’s Tale, Margaret!❤❤❤❤❤
6 днів тому
Wtf? Why just females? We've all read it....its not about 'feminism', ffs. And who said anything about banning it?
Yes. The Republicans in the U.S. and the militant right-wingers in other countries would be nowhere without a flock of ignoramuses and dimwits bleating their support.
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right." Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
Exactly. There is an old rule called Hanlon's Razor which states that it's a mistake to attribute something to malice (meaning the kind of deliberate malevolent action which most people would label as evil) when it can be explained equally well by ignorance and stupidity. However, I think there ought to be a fourth element in the equation which I would label as selfishness. Where Hanlon's Razor falls down is that it doesn't acknowledge there's actually a lot of room between intentional cruelty -- or evil, if you will -- and ignorance or stupidity which might not have had any hateful intent (or at least not consciously). As another old proverb states, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Selfishness is not an inherently bad thing because all of us need a certain amount of it in order to be healthy, but it can easily become a bad thing in excessive amounts. However, an excessive amount of selfishness is not necessarily malicious and it's also not necessarily stupid although it frequently is careless and short-sighted.
If I am a fraction of this sharp, this incisive, this witty and this insightful at 83, I will count myself lucky, indeed. What a fantastic interview. You could tell there was a mutual rapport there, so well done, Favs!
She's so much more than an author. She has watched the world churn for decades and she is so skilled at pointing out the most important patterns. Brilliant.
Some of us knew exactly why she wrote a "Handmaid's Tale" Some of us see the rising power of the religious right in American politics as the inspiration for said novel! The military complex has been programming veterans via right wing media, the very worst of it, on military base PA systems! This persuasion enforces the desire to support the military industrial complex. We now know Ike was right, the murder of two Kennedy's and the assassination of RFK jr's life is an extension of this long, expansion of war mongering and world domination! This is the result of "manifest destiny" the insane claim to everything, because we are American! IN this regard we are more like the Russians.
Margaret said that, one thing at the heart of the dystopian society is "you no longer have someone to trust in" and it becomes "eerily quiet"... between us... and who is this? Dylan's "Things have changed" also finds us in that reality, where we are today in the US. It can happen here; it already happens here and there, in right wing enclaves: Grass Valley, Clallam County, Provo, and many other places: it's happening: surveillance, monitoring, tracking and terrorizing. Gilead is here.
@@benfordcameron7619 RFK, jr. murdered his own personal life as his mental degradation continues. "Manifest Destiny" like Zionism mixes religion with land as the driving force to conquer.
Ms. Atwood is saying ‘ Evil never sleeps’ when things get bad, evil shows its malice. When things are good, evil diminishes and crawls back into a hole. Ms. Atwood is right on the money.
@@bjmaynard01 - Evil is thriving because evil lies. The lies are easy for many to believe because they're blinded by anxieties and fears. Evil feeds those feelings and tries to turn them towards anger and grievance. And then too, many people find the simple, pat assertions that "everything is terrible" easier to believe than the more complex reasoning required to understand why things are _not_ terrible. For instance, it's easier (for many people) to believe that applying tariffs to _all_ imports is a good thing, than it is to understand the negative economic impacts of those same tariffs.
5 днів тому+2
Margaret Atwood's insights into the complexities of politics, religion, and hope are truly refreshing. Her clear vision of human tendencies and her sharp wit make me feel both inspired and grateful to be alive. I admire her ability to shed light on these deep issues with such clarity-she is a hero in my eyes. Thank you!
Bet this interview took you by surprise, John. Yup, she's smart. Yup, she's accomplished. Yup she is older than you and shows it in words of wisdom. Great interview. One of your very best. A treasure. Thank you to both of you. You lifted me up.
As a Canadian, I have always loved and admired Margaret Atwood. I had read Handmaid's Tale when I was pregnant for my daughter over 35 years ago. Wow! Had I of known then how her story would almost come to fruition today, I would never have believed it! She's definitely a national treasure and has the wit, intelligence, and a funny woman all wrapped up in a nice package! Proud to be Canadian!
Margaret Atwood is a visionary and brilliant. I really hoped so much of her stories wouldn't fit our country changing into a scary authoritarian state. I live in FL and yes, I am stunned the government wants bloggers to register with them for approval. That is terrifying and yet, people have nerve to tell me how free Florida is. Is it? Because I thought freedom of speech is the hallmark of a free society.
SUZIE: I would say the same thing if I was Canadian! Canada has blessed the world with SO much PHENOMENAL talent, kindness & greatness...& I would consider Margaret Atwood Canada's biggest brag yet! 💚💙💜 from Washington (STATE, not DC). PS: YRS ago I lived in Phoenix, Az & worked for an extended stay Hotel that mostly accomodates snowbirds from all around the globe. Id get SO EXCITED for fall when my regulars would return for the colder months🥰ESPECIALLY CANADIANS! 🥰They are surely the most kind, gracious, well-mannered individuals God ever dropped on the plant! (Middle-State Americans & Aussies are very close "seconds") .
@@anabaird3835 I’m grateful that my youngest daughter and her husband live in Washington too. I hope they can escape before she is forced to breed. That’s already too close to iQ45’s call for a “baby boom” and medical care being denied to women across the country.
I work at a restaurant frequented by Doug Mastriano, the former Republican candidate for Governor of Pennsylvania. He is a religious fundamentalist, Qanon supporter, election denier, and all-around Trump supporter. He's had his election rallies and announcement parties at my restaurant where Don Junior, and thus the Secret Service, were present. The one aspect of this that has hit me hardest during my direct dealings with this man and his wife is just how ordinary he is. It's the old "banality of evil" at its finest. He is kind and respectful and his wife is lovely. Yet, the policies this man would have engendered(including a full-no exceptions ban on abortion) would have destroyed real lives in Pennsylvania. We MUST remain vigilant. As long as one group is being marginalized and attacked, we are ALL under attack.
Well that's the problem isn't it? We've come to accept such low standards for humanity. You call that man ordinary. He doesn't sound to ordinary to me. He sounds pathological. Until we start making the distinction between people who are sane we will continue to allow people who have a distorted view of reality making decisions about how large amounts of people should live
Authoritarians are always charming...but they are devious in their minds ..always there to take advantage of people who have been taught to have good thoughts and empathy for their fellow humans
Just an FYI: I helped get out the vote for Fetterman because I knew how important that race was even though I don't live in the state of PA anymore. There's another race that is just as important if not more so in WI in 3 weeks!!! It could very easily be the Supreme Court of WI that decides who wins the 2024 election! It will also determine whether there will be a law that bans abortion, no exceptions. Currently they are outspending Dems 2 to 1. Dan Kelly, a former Wisconsin Supreme Court justice, faces Democratic-backed Janet Protasiewicz, a Milwaukee County judge, on April 4. The winner will determine majority control of the court, with the fate of abortion access, legislative redistricting, voting rights, rules for elections and other major issues at stake. The winner will also be in place heading into the 2024 presidential election in battleground Wisconsin. The court, currently controlled 4-3 by conservatives, came within one vote of overturning President Joe Biden’s narrow win in 2020. Please go to Mobilize Me to find out about volunteering opportunities to help Democrats win. Thank you!
It's not hard to defeat them right now. 1) Hammer them for trying to cut Social Security. 2) Hammer them for taking away womens' reproductive rights. 3) Hammer them for pushing cheap easy guns on America. Tell them they hate America, because they do.
Handmaid's Tale is one of my favorite books. Atwood is so gentle and subtle in her scathing dissection of the hypocrisy of Christian Fascists. Pro-life yet brutal executions, forced monogamy for the women but the men go to brothels, entitled access to women's reproduction but also a weird perverse aversion and ignorance to women's anatomy. And so much more.
Literally all of that, as she's said herself, is directly lifted from real history. The specific details of the Ceremony are almost the only exception. The truth behind the fiction is what's really scary.
It’s so heartening that older women are finally becoming visible. The experience and wisdom they can bring to today’s world is invaluable. Learning about women who’ve made important discoveries and others whose achievements were claimed by men or simply quietly hidden has been enlightening. Women still have a long way to go toward equality but I am grateful that women of all ages are becoming more prevalent in all arenas.
LOVE your first sentence. I am one of those older women living in a small community among people that have never been out of their surroundings, whereas my life (as an average, ordinary person) was filled with unbelievably diverse life experiences, including crossing the Atlantic on one of the last passenger boats (as opposed to modern cruise ships) because back than it was cheaper than flying. And yes, women in general, once their bloom of youth begins to fade, are indeed becoming very, very invisible, even to men who are 20 or more years older than they are, especially single women.
@ discovering that many younger men are far more likely to listen equally to women. And once they understand women’s lived experiences they notice the discrimination in their everyday lives.
It's a sad thing to realize that we would rather disagree to point of wishing each other dead. Instead of sitting down together and finding a solution and not wait for chaos to erupt. Where are the adults in the room? A child could figure this out. Mrs Atwood is a breath of fresh air. Her awareness is legendary. Thank you.
You can’t negotiate with Christian Fascists. They think they’re on a mission from god to subjugate the world and anyone in their way is satanic. This is coming from my family that essentially runs the Christian Coalition for America, a massive right wing Christian political org.
Pod save America have an interview with Anand Giridharadas about exactly that. It's worth watching. He usually writes about capitalism and to address your point, One of the reasons why we are at each other's throats is because we have been set upon each other by the capitalist oligarchs of our society who benefit greatly from orchestrating and the engineering and environment where we focus on each other rather than them and what they do. Because if we did have time and energy to focus on what they do, we might just come for them and rip them from their high places. Whether that be economically or structurally or politically
When it comes to American politics, you're probably right. However, I think the issue is that you don't have two sides that both believe in reality or who can be objective. Most of the time, it's the political right that is delusional. However, the left acts like the right when it comes to particular topics. The left also shuts down nuance or an actual discussion. Anyone who doesn't agree is usually labeled a bigot and canceled, even when their stance is neither, just uncomfortable. As an actual liberal who is politically independent but usually votes Democrat, I feel lost in this current social and political landscape. I now know how the Republicans who believe in democracy felt when Maga and Qanon took over their party.
It's not about two sides disagreeing with each other when we're talking about basic human rights of LGBTQ and people of color. There are people holding sick ideologies that just want entire categories of people to die. Coming together requires that not one who holds those ideas have a seat at the table.
Long time Margaret Atwood fan typing from Toronto. Just when I think your Offline podcast can't get better you do this. Thank you Jon Favreau for continued excellent podcasting. I long for a Crooked Media equivalent in Canada. Long may you pod.
We have CBC, and we have Canadaland, but not an entertaining and activating political media centre. I love listening to the political takes accompanied with humour and occasionally insider perspectives (at least on how things work as a process). I’ve loved the optimism and activation of the audience to make meaningful political change. If anyone knows of a Canadian comparative, I’m all ears! 😊I’d love it!
Margaret Atwood has always managed to impress me every interview she does. Her breadth of knowledge, insight into human behaviour, her ability to use everyday expressions is amazing. Now I will find that Utopia resource to find out so much more. Thank you. 🇨🇦💪
Those qualities are what make her the Mark Twain of our time, in my opinion. The thing that makes me seethe with envy of people like them is that last thing you mentioned, the economy of words. I know that I am knowledgeable and insightful, but any time I try to express it I wind up writing a frikkin essay, full of ten-dollar vocabulary words that many readers might not know. But people like Twain and Atwood (also Angelou, come to think of it), they can stitch a few pedestrian words together and say things so powerful it just about knocks me out. My favorite of Atwood's is "If you tell people there's nothing they can do, they will do worse than nothing." Good lord, how often do we see how true that is?
@@audreymuzingo933 this is one of the most insightful comments I’ve ever seen on UA-cam. You summed up Margaret Atwood perfectly. Not to mention, you use the word ‘envy’ correctly - no one uses the word correctly & it happens to be one of my pet peeves. 🤷🏻♀️
Ms. Atwood is a prime example of what the objective, analytical mind can achieve. I have admired her for years both as a writer and a critical thinker. This is one of Jon's best interviews and shows why Pod Save America is at the top of the heap in podcasts!👌✌👍
Best interview ever Jon. Margaret Atwood's ability to synthesize human behavior and speak to our existential dilemmas is awe-inspiring. I could have listened for hours to her stories.
I think feminism means something different in the USA, than Canada, Europe, Australia etc, as in Europe it only means fighting abuse and subjugation of women. Such as women didn't have as many rights and were less represented in their own country. It wasn't until recently women had the right to not be raped by her husband. In USA it seems to be an insult by men who hate women, who spend their time searching out examples of idiots who talk nonsense to say all women who fight against abuse are like that. Funny how they spend too much time online whinging against women, filling comment sections no matter what the subject as an excuse to whine on against feminists and saying what women should want, but no woman finds an abusive misogynist who feels threatened by women who have rights against them to be a turn on. I also think men and women dislike each other more in the USA than Europe, as USA women tell men they're disgusting if not cir'cised and some men who had that done develop issues, such as less sensitivity, which they spend a lot of time online trying to take out on women. Like the USA man who was banned from entering Europe for making web pages promoting men rpe and abuse women when travelling. Although I also acknowledge men from many places who have had injunctions taken out on them by women offline, then use the internet to carry on being abusive.
As a prolific reader, and a Canadian, I have tried reading. Margaret Atwood’s work and found much of it beyond me. It’s usually deep and philosophical, and I couldn’t keep up. However, there have been one or two I enjoyed, perhaps because they were easier reads. One is Alias Grace, an examination of a small town murder, very early in the last century or late in the one before that. ( it’s been many years since I read it, so I can’t recall the exact decade in which it occurred.) Her brilliance is obvious in everything she does, and she deserves much admiration and praise. I believe she’s had a successful family life, as well, which goodness knows is not easy to achieve for anyone but pis many times more difficult for a famous person.. Her husband/partner of many years passed easy a couple of years ago. If Alice Munro was worthy of the Nobel, Ms Atwood certainly deserves one, too.
The first time I read Atwood was about 1995, and I loved her then! I have only grown to love and appreciate her more through the ages. What an amazing woman. I could listen to her all day. It would be such a treat to have her as a dinner guest!
I had the good fortune of visiting Margaret at University of Toronto when she was in residence. She had a strong presence then and I've enjoyed reading her books and poetry and now am happy to hear her wisdom
Thank you! Best episode ever. Margaret Atwood's creative and intellectual genius forever proves her to be not "O.L.D." (lol) but timeless and ever-relevant. Jon, I've been subbed for years and have always admired your work, online and offline, but I want to thank you also for this episode (which deserves to 'go viral'). Your questions and responses were thoughtful, the conversation a delight, insightful, and fun, but most of all, thank you for being so respectful and (a still rare in media, sadly) example of how to not interrupt or talk over someone, even during pregnant pauses. Oh, and please have more Canadians on more often! xo 🇨🇦
I remember reading The Handmaid's Tale when I was 12 or so, and the impact it had on me even then (I am going to be 37 later this year). The fact that in the last 25 or so years, I've seen the US and other countries spiral down this dark hole towards the reality in the book has been terrifying. Great interview, Jon.
America is certainly going down towards total totalitarianism. DJT is certainly determined to be big brother and rule as a dictator. He has these illusions of grandeur . God help America.
Just curious, I don’t see anything resembling young women being forced in to breeding slavery. The exact opposite. Am I completely blind to something y’all are seeing that I’m not?
She's just one if those folks that sees things so clearly and is so far ahead of our time. Mad respect for this visionary and most beloved genuis. Thank God for Margaret Atwood. Her fiction is our reality. Terrifying. But, she did say there is room for hope.
@@lah6739 Yes, sadly she's exactly spot on. I sincerely just wish that they're just talking about a fictional book but sadly it's a dystopian future we seem to be headed towards.
She is exceedingly well researched on historical examples of the rise of totalitarianism. She observed the shift towards the far right and the march towards authoritarianism that has been occurring in the US Republican party for decades, beginning with Reagan, together with the rise of the Evangelical extremist. Her genius is her observation skills and ability to meld them with real examples of horrific treatment of humans particularly women, written into a fictionalised world.
She said "read history" to learn more about times today. That takes time, effort, research and mindful consideration. She also experienced cultures different from her own. I've noticed online many people have angry opinions but little to no knowledge of the topic they're ranting about. That's "Stupidity" or Intellectually Laziness. Margaret Atwood is the opposite of intellectually lazy.
I started reading "The Handmaid's Tale" late one evening in the 80's, and I didn't stop till sunrise and the end of the book. It was scary, and the further I read, the farther I moved away in the bed from my sleeping husband. I was never so scared for my future.
How sad that you felt compelled to move away from your husband just because of a book. I am so glad I never gave 'The Handmaid's Tale' any time of my day.
@@sandratownsend9711 I wasn't scared because of my husband; I was scared because I remembered how badly some men have treated women. You don't need The Handmaids Tale to know that--any honest history book will tell you the same.
Gotta love Margaret Atwood. "Think about it. Are you thinking about it? Do you have the answer?" Thanks for reminding us that 'think about it' doesn't have to be an insult, it can be valid, an instruction from someone interested in the conclusion an askee will make. I love your reaction to MA, Jon, you look in parts introspective, like a little kid learning at grandma's knee.
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right." Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
Wonderful conversation. I wanted this interview to go on and on. My question for Ms. Atwood is , "Why are the people with the least knowledge the ones with the most advice?" I'd love to hear her advice on many topics and I wish she'd taught me history. Thank you for a wonderful podcast.
There's actually some research about that. Basically, people who are incompetent and unintelligent are quite often unaware of it. So they greatly overestimate their intelligence and think they have things worth saying
Hello @@minoozolala. I believe that it all depends on rhondah1587's age. I'm 85 and I don't think Margaret Atwood is very elderly. My 14-year-old granddaughter does not think so either. She thinks Ms. Atwood and I are incomprehensibly ancient. So, in the end, everyone is right. And I for one like it that way.
@@minoozolala Thank you for your kind comment. And now a bit off-topic, but I'm sure you get it. Last evening we had a family dinner, and my granddaughter proved it again. Everything teens say seems a bit over the top. They are surely the most wonderful creatures on earth.
I had a boyfriend when I was in 2nd year law who spoke in tongues and his sister interpreted it. I don't think they were religious so much as they loved attention. The brother abnegated responsibility because he said he didn't know what he was saying (nobody did) and the sister was motivated by power, because who could gainsay her interpretation? This was in Canada in 1987 in a baptist church. As a young law student, I was just amazed and felt at the time that it was very important to witness it. For some reason, the two of them stopped going to that church and the boyfriend moved to another fundamentalist church. In that church, there was a lot of pressure to couple up and baby up between the parishioners. There was much talk about "sheep stealing". There was a huge focus on donations. The youth pastor actually apologized to me because I was forced to get a career rather than to stay home and reproduce. He couldn't fathom why I would stray from what amounted to God's work. I had a lot of conversations with the pastor, who was the only one who was prepared to have an intelligent discussion with me, particularly given my course of education (philosophy and law). I had doubts about his bona fides because I thought he was too smart not to know exactly what he was doing with those people. In the end, the leadership of the church came to me and told me I had to leave my boyfriend, because... he was "demon-possessed". They were entirely sincere and now they were meddling in my entirely personal life, which was where I decided to get off that bus. I accepted their offer to hide in the house of a family in the congregation for a couple of weeks so this guy couldn't find me. It put the exclamation mark at the end of the sentence. What a ride! Every closed system creates its own rules and therefore its own reality, is supported by the ignorant and directed by the cynical. We all need to be aware that these "innocent" groups exist not just around us, but among us.
I would think that the types of experiences that you describe here would turn more people away from superstitious thinking and cult-like behavior but it seems as though we are seeing a resurgence in these groups. It is certainly more difficult to see the absurdity when you are a part of it. And like Margaret said, people lean on superstition during times of unrest
I agree. With the Mega Churches abounding throughout my Country and their misogynistic, homophobic, racist and bigoted so called Pastors help to indoctrinate the lost people in our Country and turn them into one evil mass of my Countrymen who themselves are misogynistic, homophobic, racist and bigoted. Not only do they want to rule out non-conformists from being allowed to have a presence in our society they also want to take away our Voting Block. They have taken the Christian religion and say only they are true Christians; although they act in a way that Christ would never act; and have turned Christianity into an horrible name. A lot of regular Christians are getting angry about the Mega Churches declaring that ones not in their Church aren’t REAL Christians. It’s probably the best thing to happen for the Democratic Party coming up on the 2024 elections.
@@viekent your comment assumes that people can see this absurdity. A lot of people are as stupid as a block of wood and a simply incapable of high level thinking and analysis and don't particularly care about what is true and what isn't
That's a good TV series called Psycho-Pass that explores the idea of the role. Innocent civilians play in a society. It fits in very well with Margaret's work. It's a little gruesome, but it is a good series. In particular, this theme is addressed in season 2. There's also a very good movie
It is great to have Margaret Atwood talk about her experiences in the Soviet Union. I had very similar experiences when I went there in the mid-seventies. I was not an author; I had only the opportunity to listen. It is a relief to know that Atwood's perceptions are spot on. Thank you so much.
Interestingly, I hear the same concerns from conservatives about the radical left in the U.S. It would be an interesting experiment to ask people who have escaped from places like the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, N. Korea, China, etc., whether they are more concerned about the "political left", or "political right" in the U.S.
@@serpentines6356Or places like Pinochet's Chile, Franco's Spain, Iran under either the Shah or post-revolution. Pre-1945 Japan, Germany, Italy. Manchukuo.
I had the pleasure of training many new employees in several types of businesses. My best advice to every person was "Don't guess. Ask. You don't yet know what you don't know." It's hard to "untrain" a bad procedure.
"Geesh, why do you always have to be so difficult? who knows better here, you or me? for once just do what you're told!" if you ask, you're labeled a difficult person, someone who doesn't accept instructions from higher up, a trouble maker, anti-authoritarian.. so.. your mileage may vary with that advice
She's one of my heroes. Thank goodness for Margaret Atwood and her insightful novels. Decent people are fighting back against the rise of religious fascism in the U.S., and around the world. We've beat them before, we'll beat them again.
So happy to see the wonderful, insightful Canadian on your your program. Here's hoping that this carnage of American democracy seep into Canada. At least, we dont have to deal with Electoral College results! Huge thanks to Margaret!🍁👏
Margaret was guest a year or two ago - it was THE BEST interview I had heard in a long time. She is so wise, so wise. I am so looking forward to this! Thank you! Margaret is a gift and a treasure.
Thank you both for this thoughtful conversation. I recognize Margaret Atwood as an author but sadly never read any of her books. Tomorrow is my 70th Birthday and I'm changing that....I'm reading THE HANDMAID'S TALE!
A magnificent woman, her words are clear and true. She describes chaos with a calm and strong voice. If only the idiots leading the world would listen. But no, they ban books instead.
As a writer, I'm in awe of her skill in prose writing. I thought "The Handmaid's Tale" was going to be a dull polemic, just the usual thoughtless trashing on the patriarchy, but I wanted to borrow elements of Gilead for one of my stories. I was so wrong! Her prose just flows across the page, her scenes are powerful and striking. And I am so glad I was so wrong.
@@rhythmandblues_alibi I have read a little history. However, I also read an interview of Atwood in which she said that much of her book was based on talking to people who were behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, hearing about what it was like to live in repressive regimes. That added a lot to the intensity of her story as well, I suspect.
Thank you for having one of our Canadian treasures on. As a Canadian myself, I'm thrilled that your audience is getting a glimpse of Margaret Atwood's brilliance. 🍁
This was such a great interview. Thanks Jon! Margaret is an extraordinary woman. She has obviously been inquisitive her entire life and unlike many, she was proactive in seeking answers to the many curiosities she still seems to find interesting. I love her! ❤ The next time people shoot an ageists remark please remind them about Margaret Atwood. I knew a woman like her. We called her aunt Caroline even though we weren’t blood related. She was just a dear friend to my mom and our neighbor when I was growing up. She lived well into her 90’s. Her body gave out eventually but her mind remained razor sharp until the day she died. I’d like to think Margaret would be the same. She reminds me of my aunt Caroline. 🥰
I've been reading Margaret Atwood for over 40 years. She is one of my favourite Canadians🍁🦫and one of my favourite authors; she is a master with the written word. Her Oryx and Crake Trilogy is a masterpiece.
This woman has vast knowledge that people really need to pay attention to. She is an old soul that has knowledge that the young can apply to the future. She has my respect.
@daniele.3361I didn't like the Handmaid's Tale when I first read it, but then when I realized it's implications, I gained immense respect for her. It's a cautionary tale. It points out the frog in politics, things get incrementally hotter and hotter before you know it you're boiled. Never once did I think Trump would be president.
As the mother of a son now turning 30, give your children space to make mistakes, don't fix everything for them. Answer their questions when they ask! Teach them music and read to them every night no matter what. There, lots of advice!!
Mom always advised me to remember that I was "raising adults", not raising children. :) It made me do what you describe above. Smart women make a difference in the world. :)
@@JustMe-vk4fn Yes, my mantra (having been raised by a single mom who got her PhD in genetics when I was 5) was "I am raising a feminist son". I never forgot that and he makes me a proud mom every single day!
To which I add: Your job as a parent is to make yourself superfluous. In order to do that your offspring need lots of time without you where they can make mistakes, fail, take risks, explore without your guidance and challenge everything you say.
I love her and the wisdom she has that is not even spoken yet I'm sure is as amazing as what she has spoken. I guess I'm a bit of a odd ball but I have always loved history. My grandma is the one that pretty much raised me. She came to live with my husband and I back in 2015 at the age of 95 she died here at home in 2021 at the age of 101. All my life I would ask her questions about the things she had gone through during her life. I also used to spend a lot of time with my great great aunt who died in 1987 at the age of 87. She was born in 1900, grandma in 1920 both women lived through some amazing and hard times. Just by asking them about the things they went through, the things they saw I actually learned a lot. Except for these two women I was mostly on my own since I was 9 or 10 and especially after I turned 13. There are things people go through in life that can make them grow up to fast like me, there are things people go through that make them grow up to slow, both things happen. But learning the truth of things, learning the truth of the past first hand from those that lived it is a wonderful teacher in itself. Even if not asking direct questions about something, even though the times were very different for them then for me at say age 16 or what ever age. There is still wisdom to be gained even if we don't realize we are gaining it at the time. I think that is something we should all remember, even when we are young and dumb and think we know it all. I'm 57 now and realize I know less and admit this, then I thought I knew at 16. Yes there are some legit things that I don't know if I will ever fully understand just because of how much has changed in such a short time, and other things I am learning or remembering I was taught or shown when I was young and didn't grasp it truly until now. We all need to search out the wisdom of those older then us even if times have seemed to have changed by a great deal, because basic wisdom, especially that of the soul is still invaluable and ever lasting. There are things from the past that even now can help us, even if for nothing else but give us strength. The strength those 2 wonderful women gave me through their knowledge is the greatest gift I have ever received. So don't avoid those older in your family unless they are d--k heads who we all have in our families, but seek them out and learn at least the history from someone who lived it first hand and you may also find they have many questions for you to help them learn about now and how to cope with the now. Above all keep politics out of it as much as possible unless they ask you to help them understand the truth that is going on now. You can learn much from each other in very respectful ways.
I miss my grandparents & parents so much! My dad passed at 90 last year, my mother died when I was 11, so I had to grow up too fast, as you said! It saved me from idealism & hubris!
I read this book in a high school AP English class at a catholic school. "The Handmaids tale" was the first book I had ever read that I didnt want to put down and was actually interesting to read! It truly changed my life, helping me realize I was not crazy to see this stuff happening at many times throughout the last 30 years.
We adore Maggie. She is incredibly humorous even though she writes such dystopian literature. Once an audience member asked her about her hair- was it real? And Maggie laughed and replied - do you think I would have hair like this on purpose? Her Massey Lecture on debt was prescient just before the crash of 2008 and she invented a remote way to sign books. She is a MARVEL and beloved by all Canadians. Thank you for this interview John.
I am Canadian... my sister and I just finished watching the interview (together, and from different towns) I echo my sister with Wow! We love you Margaret Atwood, your candid response and easy-going, make sense info!
Margaret Atwood is an under appreciated National Treasure. Thank you for having her on your podcast. ❤ come this Canadian. Keep up the very important and excellent work you are doing
And reading everything. I think I read two of Richardson's novels, one assigned, the second to see if they were really that bad. I can't imagine choosing to read the third, though I understand why she did it. Think about all the reading she has done to develop that level of knowledge.
Margaret Atwood is a very smart woman, and this interview was spot on. I live in Germany, so I’m well aware of all the spying that was done here with the Gestapo during the war as well as the spying in East Germany by the so-called “Stasi” (Staatssicherheitsdienst = state security service), which is literally the same thing as the Gestapo. I recently had a German friend of my mother tell me how she and her family were questioned and spied on for years just because her older brother had escaped to the West just before the wall was built. I’m also very aware of the dangers of fascist autocracy, which is why I closely observe what is happening in the States right now. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but you are definitely heading in that direction if Republicans get their way and if Trump is re-elected.
Thank you for saying this out loud. We need more people from other countries to say these things. I always ask any of my foreign relatives/friends on what their opinion is of him/us to see if I’ve become too blinded by my hatred of the man and his followers. Their opinions are always similar to those you stated. I have hope that the young people coming up now can get us out of this mess. At least I pray they do. Thank you for your opinion. 😊
@@primatecarer3707 Believe me, a lot of people over here hate him, too. I’ve spoken to elderly people who were still kids when Hitler came to power and are still alive. They all say they see similarities and it scares them. Look also at what happened when Trump visited London, the masses of protesters that absolutely despise him. He was taken a different route so that he didn’t see the protesters and only got to see the few who were out there to support him, but knowing Trump, you can bet he watched the news. He lied to his supporters when he told them they loved him. You can cross the borders here in Europe and always find people in other countries who despise him, so no, you’re not blinden by your hatred, we see through him, too.
I have never understood the reasoning behind post WWII East Germans being harassed, stopped and even murdered for leaving the country. What did the government think they were accomplishing with such a policy, that basically turned the country into a prison camp? They gained nothing useful doing this by literally admitting that their country wasn't worth living in.
I rather Greed, Anger and Stupidity. Good and evil are matters of opinion and taste, but everybody recognises Greed and Anger in any language. Ignorance is a bit harder.
I only discovered the Handmaid’s Tale one month ago then binged watched it to the last published episode and I must say that this frightened to me and opened my eyes more to what’s happening now in the Republican Party. We as democrats and conscious citizens must work now to fight against the Republicans. We the “exhausted majority” want our freedom back! It’s up to us!
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right." Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
And yet the Democrats are the party of The State and ever expanding bureaucracies. Right wing political philosophy champions individual liberties, limited government, and free markets. Granted they don’t abide by these principles but they are the best chance of delaying the destination of Serfdom.
I agree, BUT--let's not demonize all Republicans, let's reach out to them. When I was growing up, Republicans and Democrats could still be friends, and they worked together in the House and Senate. I must hope that can happen again.
@@88Ariadne88 George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right." Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’
Jon, I really like this podcast. I appreciate both extremes being discussed. I'm a professor and author of fiction too and I feel like I already censor what I say in my lectures. My job has been to teach the facts. However, now it's uncomfortable to discuss certain topics because of how that could be wrongly perceived. I've been teaching over 28 years and never thought I would have to censor how I speak. It's so sad.
I feel for teachers at all levels. Best to you. However when we self censor and second guess our instruction we in some degree have given the Christo Fascist authoritarians a victory. DeSantis is a bully and self-serving POS. Unfortunately he is just one of many. As a gay male in Western New York Teen before Stonewall, 20 + in the 70s I self-censored until coming out in '73. Life has been better ever since, 100%. P.S. I do recognize that when teaching is your livelihood a heavy burden is imposed. Good luck and blessings!
Why censor yourself? We are not in Florida Is that not the opposite of academic honesty? I taught until 20 years ago, but always found a way to say what needed to be said. Not every student would have got my point, but the top third of most classes either would, or would have been curious enough to go searching.
Sheila Durant, Thank you for your years of honesty and ingenuity. "qui tacet consentire," silence gives consent. I for one and hopefully many others will not be intimidated into silence and nonexistence. (The quote is from P. 88 of A Man for All Seasons, Robert Bolt's brilliant play about Sir Thomas More. Vintage Books paperback, 1962)
I just stumbled across Ms. Atwood's novel "Lady Oracle," and I loved it! It's hilarious, completely different than any other book from Ms. Atwood that I've ever read.
What an amazingly curious and inherently critical person. Margaret Atwood's perspective is a rare gift to the societies that currently occupy this planet.
Atwood is woman’s wizard. I always feel the 60’s & the assassinations. “Regimes will kill you …” that is how I have always felt politically is fearful & guilty. Thank you so much, I have watched Handmaid’s Tale with my grand-daughter. Bless you for everything. It is such a joy to be able to tell you thanks from the bottom of my heart. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Where most sane people see The Handmaid's Tale as a warning there are others who see it as a how to manual. The combination of the sudden rise of the charismatic evangelical church and a fascist political movement in America is scary af. When I was younger I always imagined the Nazis were a smallish group of thugs who managed to rule by fear but looking back at old footage of Nazi Germany it's now clear that those people at the mass rallies or lining the streets weren't afraid or coerced to clap and cheer but were ecstatically and gleefully present for it with all their heart and soul. This is where I think Ms Atwood got it wrong a little when saying the reason Putin and others like him are able to establish a totalitarian regime. Yes fear is there for the small group who might oppose him but by and large the average Russian is on board through a mixture of feelings of national pride and paranoia. Putin like Hitler has mastered the art of demagoguery. Despite being a mighty nation the average Russian believes the rest of the world is out to destroy their nation and culture just as did the average German. The West didn't have enough imagination to understand that the humiliation of the Russian people with the collapse of the USSR would create the same conditions that caused the rise of fascism in Germany.
I’m not sure it’s a lack of imagination as much as an incredible amount of hope. With Gorbachev and his followers, America thought Russia was really beginning to align itself with most of the rest of the world. It’s only been since Putin that Russia has again isolated itself. We weren’t ready for what Putin did but we knew that this population could easily slip back into totalitarianist thinking. The old Soviet Union isn’t that far gone from their lives. Most Russians grew up under the Soviet regime and feel comfortable with it. This was well understood but America could do very little about it without starting a war.
She addresses this. The most vociferous in opposition are beaten killed jailed. Seeing that, the rest fall in line. Or escape. Viola. Everyone wants to needs to get something 'out of it' just to survive and care for their families. The masses won't sit and starve in opposition - they - and you if you had to - will fall in line.
Don't forget a simple reason that is happening right now in America and that is an old method that still works: information. How much do people know? To what kind of information do they have access? Do they think the "others" are wrong or are the enemy? I spoke with this intelligent well educated chinese woman that was offended someone refered to Tibet as a country on itself. For her it's simply a part of China. That's what she learned at school and on the tv since always. I tried my best diplomacy and explained that for her it was normal to think of Tibet as part of China, but for us we always heard the story a different way... Folks in Germany just elected some guys that seemed to have some interesting ideas. They didn't vote gor war and concentration camps. The same way most people that vote Republican don't actually want to lose the right to abortion and affordable health care. The same way some people may support Putin, many fear him and tons dream of when he'll go away. But it's hard to mobilize opposition. And when you try, the forces in power fight back with brutality. The Handmade Tale is a reminder that we are never too far away from disaster. Iran right now is hell for women and not so many decades ago they had a lot more freedom. Some women may have thought it was a good change, some may still agree with it according to their "info", but ALL of them live with the consequences of a couple dudes decisions.
This is a perfect example of an older person who has a sharp mind and a lifetime of experience a combination that is hard to beat and an asset that has a lot to offer humanity and a stark comparison to the many empty vessels that fill the space particularly in the political sphere especially on the right side of the spectrum
I enjoyed this interview so much. It had me lol numerous times. I was pleased to find out the Ms Atwood was also a fan of Grimm’s Fairy Tales as a young girl and my mother loved finding me the most beautifully illustrated books with those stories. Your convo made me appreciate her more. Thank you Jon. 👍🏽
'Maybe you should read a bit of history." The book banners don't read, they just fearfully react.Two wonderful and intelligent people conversing. Thank you for giving us this.
Exactly…those of us who are avid readers are terrified for what this current autocratic trend means….i have Handmaid’s Tale…off to buy her other books…..
My five year old granddaughter just told me she knew everything. I kid you not. I related this story to a cabdriver this afternoon and he said his 41/2 year old son told him the same thing. lol. Their generation is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Delightful, insightful, interview. Much appreciated.
I used to look forward to watching Bill Moyers thoughtful interviews on Moyers & Company. Now I look forward to Offline in the same way. Another wonderful show.
Following the US elections, listening to Margaret Atwood's firm but steady wisdom is a balm to my spirit. Thank you!
She SCARED ME TO DEATH! Her words are balm?!
I think it's absolutely fascinating how we three individuals have had such different responses to this interview! For context, I'm a thirty year old who has had various aspects of myself politicized against my will, which has admittedly begun to shape my political stances and general worldview. I had clicked on this in the hopes of hearing some wisdom from The Margaret Atwood, and as it turns out I've actually reached many of these conclusions on my own, independent of her insight. I'm actually having a really hard time with this bc I'm finding her contributions here to be incredibly condescending? And I really don't like considering the wisdom of my elders to be "condescending." Despite my misgivings, I can't shake the feeling that I'm being talked down to... I suppose I simply wasn't the target audience for this conversation.
@@arbyswitch5580 - Interesting! What you perceive as "condescension", I experience as "a dry sense of humour". I may be "immune" to this in part because Ms. Atwood very much reminds me of my high school art teacher, another wise woman with a dry sense of humour who did _not_ suffer fools gladly--and when you're an art teacher, that's a tall order! I don't think it's meant to be condescending, but I'm not here to tell you how you should feel.
@@jlevogiani2012 honestly I appreciate you saying that. I'm a bit wry myself, and feel a bit silly for not considering that (much more graceful) interpretation of her tone. Thank you 😊 I really do respect MA so I appreciate and welcome gentle pushback on my initial response.
Margaret Atwood is now my favorite person on earth.
How has this been here a day and nobody’s gushing about how one of their favourite UA-camrs is up here in the comments? I apologise on behalf of the community, we have failed you
I am usually bored shitless by interviews on UA-cam. Hell, Atwood is as entertaining as Bertrand Russell!
And Mama Doctor Jones is one of mine!
❤❤❤ Aw. Mama Jones. Thank you for the work you do also.
Did you know that the United States is Funding actual Ukrainian Nazis that are killing the ethnic Russians that live in Eastern Ukraine.
Jon-Thank you for not being one of those hosts who are constantly interrupting your guests with inane comments, talking over the guest, asking questions that don’t matter and, worst of all, pushing their own opinions, especially when they disagree with the guest. A host who actually listens is a rare thing. I am in search of more of your podcasts.
Agreed! I love his interviews.
Yes, you could see Jon was really listening and thinking about what Ms. Atwood said. Very refreshing and it made for such an interesting, deep conversation.
Often times, hosts are bored with their vapid "celebrity guest" and feel they have to " fill in the blanks" with noise. Not so these two; absolutely charming.
What did I not see there..?.What did I not hear..?...A Brilliant Truth..!!!!!!
I have said this before and will say it again here. “The Handmaid’s Tale” should be read by all females from teens on up, and should be required reading for all. It should never be banned! Thank you for this interview, Jon. Thank you for “The Handmaid’s Tale, Margaret!❤❤❤❤❤
Wtf? Why just females? We've all read it....its not about 'feminism', ffs.
And who said anything about banning it?
Handmaid’s Tale should more importantly, be read by males.
"There is not just good and evil. There is good, evil, and stupidity." So simple yet eye opening. Thank you, Ms. Atwood.
Yes. The Republicans in the U.S. and the militant right-wingers in other countries would be nowhere without a flock of ignoramuses and dimwits bleating their support.
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right."
Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
Do you think we are too far gone with so much dumbing down of the worlds population over the past few generations?
The vast majority of "evil" that we get in the world is the result of stupidity.
Exactly. There is an old rule called Hanlon's Razor which states that it's a mistake to attribute something to malice (meaning the kind of deliberate malevolent action which most people would label as evil) when it can be explained equally well by ignorance and stupidity. However, I think there ought to be a fourth element in the equation which I would label as selfishness.
Where Hanlon's Razor falls down is that it doesn't acknowledge there's actually a lot of room between intentional cruelty -- or evil, if you will -- and ignorance or stupidity which might not have had any hateful intent (or at least not consciously). As another old proverb states, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Selfishness is not an inherently bad thing because all of us need a certain amount of it in order to be healthy, but it can easily become a bad thing in excessive amounts. However, an excessive amount of selfishness is not necessarily malicious and it's also not necessarily stupid although it frequently is careless and short-sighted.
If I am a fraction of this sharp, this incisive, this witty and this insightful at 83, I will count myself lucky, indeed. What a fantastic interview. You could tell there was a mutual rapport there, so well done, Favs!
@Daniel E. Sorry that you are not capable of deep thinking.
@Daniel E. You seem to have an unfavorable opinion of Ms. Atwood. Can you expand on that beyond the eye-rolling emogi?
@@kathleenlandolt5936 Don't bother, Gilead cultists have lost the capacity of verbal communication.
@@kacodemonio 😄 You're apparently right! It's been two months since I asked that question, and there's still no response.
She's so much more than an author. She has watched the world churn for decades and she is so skilled at pointing out the most important patterns. Brilliant.
👍🏾
Some of us knew exactly why she wrote a "Handmaid's Tale" Some of us see the rising power of the religious right in American politics as the inspiration for said novel! The military complex has been programming veterans via right wing media, the very worst of it, on military base PA systems! This persuasion enforces the desire to support the military industrial complex. We now know Ike was right, the murder of two Kennedy's and the assassination of RFK jr's life is an extension of this long, expansion of war mongering and world domination! This is the result of "manifest destiny" the insane claim to everything, because we are American! IN this regard we are more like the Russians.
Margaret said that, one thing at the heart of the dystopian society is "you no longer have someone to trust in" and it becomes "eerily quiet"... between us... and who is this? Dylan's "Things have changed" also finds us in that reality, where we are today in the US. It can happen here; it already happens here and there, in right wing enclaves: Grass Valley, Clallam County, Provo, and many other places: it's happening: surveillance, monitoring, tracking and terrorizing. Gilead is here.
@@benfordcameron7619 RFK, jr. murdered his own personal life as his mental degradation continues. "Manifest Destiny" like Zionism mixes religion with land as the driving force to conquer.
Ms. Atwood is saying ‘ Evil never sleeps’ when things get bad, evil shows its malice. When things are good, evil diminishes and crawls back into a hole. Ms. Atwood is right on the money.
Except things ARE good in the US right now and evil is THRIVING
@@bjmaynard01 - Evil is thriving because evil lies. The lies are easy for many to believe because they're blinded by anxieties and fears. Evil feeds those feelings and tries to turn them towards anger and grievance. And then too, many people find the simple, pat assertions that "everything is terrible" easier to believe than the more complex reasoning required to understand why things are _not_ terrible. For instance, it's easier (for many people) to believe that applying tariffs to _all_ imports is a good thing, than it is to understand the negative economic impacts of those same tariffs.
Margaret Atwood's insights into the complexities of politics, religion, and hope are truly refreshing. Her clear vision of human tendencies and her sharp wit make me feel both inspired and grateful to be alive. I admire her ability to shed light on these deep issues with such clarity-she is a hero in my eyes. Thank you!
Bet this interview took you by surprise, John. Yup, she's smart. Yup, she's accomplished. Yup she is older than you and shows it in words of wisdom. Great interview. One of your very best. A treasure. Thank you to both of you. You lifted me up.
This interview is pure gold.
@Daniel E. Why do you think that?
@daniele.3361your ignorance shows
Yup!❤ she sure is a wise woman and everything everyone is saying😊
Double spaces are for ancient typewriters. Look it up. Nowadays it's one space.
As a Canadian, I have always loved and admired Margaret Atwood. I had read Handmaid's Tale when I was pregnant for my daughter over 35 years ago. Wow! Had I of known then how her story would almost come to fruition today, I would never have believed it! She's definitely a national treasure and has the wit, intelligence, and a funny woman all wrapped up in a nice package! Proud to be Canadian!
Put, p
Margaret Atwood is a visionary and brilliant. I really hoped so much of her stories wouldn't fit our country changing into a scary authoritarian state. I live in FL and yes, I am stunned the government wants bloggers to register with them for approval. That is terrifying and yet, people have nerve to tell me how free Florida is. Is it? Because I thought freedom of speech is the hallmark of a free society.
@@annmarieknapp2480 She has certainly opened up awareness of the direction the GQP is taking us. Unfortunately, most of the MAGATS don’t read books.
SUZIE: I would say the same thing if I was Canadian! Canada has blessed the world with SO much PHENOMENAL talent, kindness & greatness...& I would consider Margaret Atwood Canada's biggest brag yet! 💚💙💜 from Washington (STATE, not DC).
PS: YRS ago I lived in Phoenix, Az & worked for an extended stay Hotel that mostly accomodates snowbirds from all around the globe. Id get SO EXCITED for fall when my regulars would return for the colder months🥰ESPECIALLY CANADIANS! 🥰They are surely the most kind, gracious, well-mannered individuals God ever dropped on the plant!
(Middle-State Americans & Aussies are very close "seconds") .
@@anabaird3835 I’m grateful that my youngest daughter and her husband live in Washington too. I hope they can escape before she is forced to breed. That’s already too close to iQ45’s call for a “baby boom” and medical care being denied to women across the country.
OMG this woman is an international treasure. Pure distilled wisdom, leavened with humour. We need to clone her!
Well, she certainlyis a Canadian national treasure.
@@pl414ditto, she is ours.
@@judithrochon7837 Let's clone her!
She really is. Such a lovely, genuine woman.
Maybe we could force her to reproduce. Sounds dystopian, I know, but the idea just came to me.
Margaret Atwood is a national treasure of Canada, and we proudly share her w. the rest of the world! Thank you for the interview.
I could listen to her talk forever.. shes brilliant
I work at a restaurant frequented by Doug Mastriano, the former Republican candidate for Governor of Pennsylvania. He is a religious fundamentalist, Qanon supporter, election denier, and all-around Trump supporter. He's had his election rallies and announcement parties at my restaurant where Don Junior, and thus the Secret Service, were present.
The one aspect of this that has hit me hardest during my direct dealings with this man and his wife is just how ordinary he is. It's the old "banality of evil" at its finest. He is kind and respectful and his wife is lovely. Yet, the policies this man would have engendered(including a full-no exceptions ban on abortion) would have destroyed real lives in Pennsylvania. We MUST remain vigilant. As long as one group is being marginalized and attacked, we are ALL under attack.
Well that's the problem isn't it? We've come to accept such low standards for humanity. You call that man ordinary. He doesn't sound to ordinary to me. He sounds pathological. Until we start making the distinction between people who are sane we will continue to allow people who have a distorted view of reality making decisions about how large amounts of people should live
Authoritarians are always charming...but they are devious in their minds ..always there to take advantage of people who have been taught to have good thoughts and empathy for their fellow humans
@CCRider Well that’s a truly horrible piece of news to start my day. It’s a deadly game of Whack-a Mole isn’t it.
What restaurant? I'm live near Gettysburg.
Just an FYI: I helped get out the vote for Fetterman because I knew how important that race was even though I don't live in the state of PA anymore.
There's another race that is just as important if not more so in WI in 3 weeks!!! It could very easily be the Supreme Court of WI that decides who wins the 2024 election! It will also determine whether there will be a law that bans abortion, no exceptions.
Currently they are outspending Dems 2 to 1.
Dan Kelly, a former Wisconsin Supreme Court justice, faces Democratic-backed Janet Protasiewicz, a Milwaukee County judge, on April 4. The winner will determine majority control of the court, with the fate of abortion access, legislative redistricting, voting rights, rules for elections and other major issues at stake.
The winner will also be in place heading into the 2024 presidential election in battleground Wisconsin. The court, currently controlled 4-3 by conservatives, came within one vote of overturning President Joe Biden’s narrow win in 2020.
Please go to Mobilize Me to find out about volunteering opportunities to help Democrats win. Thank you!
Jon, thank you for this interview. She was an absolute delight.
I couldn’t agree more. She’s a remarkable author.
It’s wonderful to sorta meet her like this. I love it!
@@robertcasey7312A must share interview!
It's not hard to defeat them right now. 1) Hammer them for trying to cut Social Security. 2) Hammer them for taking away womens' reproductive rights. 3) Hammer them for pushing cheap easy guns on America. Tell them they hate America, because they do.
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Handmaid's Tale is one of my favorite books. Atwood is so gentle and subtle in her scathing dissection of the hypocrisy of Christian Fascists. Pro-life yet brutal executions, forced monogamy for the women but the men go to brothels, entitled access to women's reproduction but also a weird perverse aversion and ignorance to women's anatomy. And so much more.
Literally all of that, as she's said herself, is directly lifted from real history. The specific details of the Ceremony are almost the only exception. The truth behind the fiction is what's really scary.
@@pendorran Yes true, I specifically referred to Christians but its the same with any theocracy.
😊😊😊😅😅
Sounds like you're talkin about the us right now totally agree
nakfloor1816 • Your post is A+, please accept a virtual hug, for putting my thoughts into such articulate words.
It’s so heartening that older women are finally becoming visible. The experience and wisdom they can bring to today’s world is invaluable. Learning about women who’ve made important discoveries and others whose achievements were claimed by men or simply quietly hidden has been enlightening. Women still have a long way to go toward equality but I am grateful that women of all ages are becoming more prevalent in all arenas.
LOVE your first sentence. I am one of those older women living in a small community among people that have never been out of their surroundings, whereas my life (as an average, ordinary person) was filled with unbelievably diverse life experiences, including crossing the Atlantic on one of the last passenger boats (as opposed to modern cruise ships) because back than it was cheaper than flying. And yes, women in general, once their bloom of youth begins to fade, are indeed becoming very, very invisible, even to men who are 20 or more years older than they are, especially single women.
@ discovering that many younger men are far more likely to listen equally to women. And once they understand women’s lived experiences they notice the discrimination in their everyday lives.
Dear Ms. Atwood, you are young forever! Thank you for this interview.
It's a sad thing to realize that we would rather disagree to point of wishing each other dead.
Instead of sitting down together and finding a solution and not wait for chaos to erupt. Where are the adults in the room? A child could figure this out. Mrs Atwood is a breath of fresh air. Her awareness is legendary. Thank you.
You can’t negotiate with Christian Fascists. They think they’re on a mission from god to subjugate the world and anyone in their way is satanic. This is coming from my family that essentially runs the Christian Coalition for America, a massive right wing Christian political org.
Pod save America have an interview with Anand Giridharadas about exactly that. It's worth watching. He usually writes about capitalism
and to address your point, One of the reasons why we are at each other's throats is because we have been set upon each other by the capitalist oligarchs of our society who benefit greatly from orchestrating and the engineering and environment where we focus on each other rather than them and what they do. Because if we did have time and energy to focus on what they do, we might just come for them and rip them from their high places. Whether that be economically or structurally or politically
When it comes to American politics, you're probably right. However, I think the issue is that you don't have two sides that both believe in reality or who can be objective. Most of the time, it's the political right that is delusional. However, the left acts like the right when it comes to particular topics. The left also shuts down nuance or an actual discussion. Anyone who doesn't agree is usually labeled a bigot and canceled, even when their stance is neither, just uncomfortable. As an actual liberal who is politically independent but usually votes Democrat, I feel lost in this current social and political landscape. I now know how the Republicans who believe in democracy felt when Maga and Qanon took over their party.
It's not about two sides disagreeing with each other when we're talking about basic human rights of LGBTQ and people of color. There are people holding sick ideologies that just want entire categories of people to die.
Coming together requires that not one who holds those ideas have a seat at the table.
For some reason, humans have a profound need to have others subscribe to their belief systems.
Long time Margaret Atwood fan typing from Toronto. Just when I think your Offline podcast can't get better you do this. Thank you Jon Favreau for continued excellent podcasting. I long for a Crooked Media equivalent in Canada. Long may you pod.
Well, there's the good ol' CBC. Marge's been on loads of times.
Can we come North to escape the insanity? Sounds so much better than what is happening here.
We have CBC, and we have Canadaland, but not an entertaining and activating political media centre. I love listening to the political takes accompanied with humour and occasionally insider perspectives (at least on how things work as a process). I’ve loved the optimism and activation of the audience to make meaningful political change. If anyone knows of a Canadian comparative, I’m all ears! 😊I’d love it!
@@AVspectre This is exactly what I meant!
@@3souris Yes, but I mean the whole Crooked Media thing- there is not enough of an equivalent here.
Margaret Atwood has always managed to impress me every interview she does. Her breadth of knowledge, insight into human behaviour, her ability to use everyday expressions is amazing.
Now I will find that Utopia resource to find out so much more.
Thank you. 🇨🇦💪
Margaret’s reference to pick up Stix really makes me feel old, but it is a good example of how one move can change SO many things! She’s brilliant!
Hi there, fellow Canuck.
Excellent interview
Those qualities are what make her the Mark Twain of our time, in my opinion. The thing that makes me seethe with envy of people like them is that last thing you mentioned, the economy of words. I know that I am knowledgeable and insightful, but any time I try to express it I wind up writing a frikkin essay, full of ten-dollar vocabulary words that many readers might not know. But people like Twain and Atwood (also Angelou, come to think of it), they can stitch a few pedestrian words together and say things so powerful it just about knocks me out. My favorite of Atwood's is "If you tell people there's nothing they can do, they will do worse than nothing." Good lord, how often do we see how true that is?
@@audreymuzingo933 this is one of the most insightful comments I’ve ever seen on UA-cam.
You summed up Margaret Atwood perfectly.
Not to mention, you use the word ‘envy’ correctly - no one uses the word correctly & it happens to be one of my pet peeves. 🤷🏻♀️
Ms. Atwood is a prime example of what the objective, analytical mind can achieve. I have admired her for years both as a writer and a critical thinker. This is one of Jon's best interviews and shows why Pod Save America is at the top of the heap in podcasts!👌✌👍
That was absolutely wonderful. We got wisdom, history ( lived & learned), and humor. She is such a treasure!
I So agree I felt the same way listening to her
Best interview ever Jon. Margaret Atwood's ability to synthesize human behavior and speak to our existential dilemmas is awe-inspiring. I could have listened for hours to her stories.
If only a fraction of our politicians were as wise as she… we would live in a different world
Her book is as effective now as when I first read it in the
In the Reagan 80's.
I always get a kick out of her interviews. She is so sharp and witty!
Margaret is an international treasure. Thanks for the interview.
Legendary Feminist creature.....
Thank you for correcting an earlier misplaced patriotic comment😊
Yes.. her and Margaret Sanger.. the darlings of Planned Parenthood.. the human waste disposal industry.
I think feminism means something different in the USA, than Canada, Europe, Australia etc, as in Europe it only means fighting abuse and subjugation of women. Such as women didn't have as many rights and were less represented in their own country. It wasn't until recently women had the right to not be raped by her husband. In USA it seems to be an insult by men who hate women, who spend their time searching out examples of idiots who talk nonsense to say all women who fight against abuse are like that. Funny how they spend too much time online whinging against women, filling comment sections no matter what the subject as an excuse to whine on against feminists and saying what women should want, but no woman finds an abusive misogynist who feels threatened by women who have rights against them to be a turn on.
I also think men and women dislike each other more in the USA than Europe, as USA women tell men they're disgusting if not cir'cised and some men who had that done develop issues, such as less sensitivity, which they spend a lot of time online trying to take out on women. Like the USA man who was banned from entering Europe for making web pages promoting men rpe and abuse women when travelling.
Although I also acknowledge men from many places who have had injunctions taken out on them by women offline, then use the internet to carry on being abusive.
As a prolific reader, and a Canadian, I have tried reading. Margaret Atwood’s work and found much of it beyond me. It’s usually deep and philosophical, and I couldn’t keep up. However, there have been one or two I enjoyed, perhaps because they were easier reads. One is Alias Grace, an examination of a small town murder, very early in the last century or late in the one before that. ( it’s been many years since I read it, so I can’t recall the exact decade in which it occurred.)
Her brilliance is obvious in everything she does, and she deserves much admiration and praise. I believe she’s had a successful family life, as well, which goodness knows is not easy to achieve for anyone but pis many times more difficult for a famous person.. Her husband/partner of many years passed easy a couple of years ago.
If Alice Munro was worthy of the Nobel, Ms Atwood certainly deserves one, too.
The first time I read Atwood was about 1995, and I loved her then! I have only grown to love and appreciate her more through the ages. What an amazing woman. I could listen to her all day. It would be such a treat to have her as a dinner guest!
What a brilliant women,and when will they finally give her her Nobel!?!?
Not this year!
I had the good fortune of visiting Margaret at University of Toronto when she was in residence. She had a strong presence then and I've enjoyed reading her books and poetry and now am happy to hear her wisdom
Thank you! Best episode ever. Margaret Atwood's creative and intellectual genius forever proves her to be not "O.L.D." (lol) but timeless and ever-relevant. Jon, I've been subbed for years and have always admired your work, online and offline, but I want to thank you also for this episode (which deserves to 'go viral'). Your questions and responses were thoughtful, the conversation a delight, insightful, and fun, but most of all, thank you for being so respectful and (a still rare in media, sadly) example of how to not interrupt or talk over someone, even during pregnant pauses. Oh, and please have more Canadians on more often! xo 🇨🇦
Thank you Jon for the interview. Margaret Atwood is a breath of fresh air ❤
Wow, she is so spot on with remark on experience under totalitarian governments😢
I remember reading The Handmaid's Tale when I was 12 or so, and the impact it had on me even then (I am going to be 37 later this year). The fact that in the last 25 or so years, I've seen the US and other countries spiral down this dark hole towards the reality in the book has been terrifying. Great interview, Jon.
Exact same !
America is certainly going down towards total totalitarianism. DJT is certainly determined to be big brother and rule as a dictator. He has these illusions of grandeur . God help America.
I watched the first series, but can't bring myself to watch the second, it's too scary for these days.
You do mean the reality of people choosing to castrate themselves, ushering in the population collapse of the next 20 years. Right?
Just curious, I don’t see anything resembling young women being forced in to breeding slavery. The exact opposite. Am I completely blind to something y’all are seeing that I’m not?
She's just one if those folks that sees things so clearly and is so far ahead of our time. Mad respect for this visionary and most beloved genuis. Thank God for Margaret Atwood. Her fiction is our reality. Terrifying. But, she did say there is room for hope.
Legendary Feminist creature.....
Margaret isn't ahead of our times, she is in our time - fully.
@@lah6739 Yes, sadly she's exactly spot on.
I sincerely just wish that they're just talking about a fictional book but sadly it's a dystopian future we seem to be headed towards.
She is exceedingly well researched on historical examples of the rise of totalitarianism. She observed the shift towards the far right and the march towards authoritarianism that has been occurring in the US Republican party for decades, beginning with Reagan, together with the rise of the Evangelical extremist. Her genius is her observation skills and ability to meld them with real examples of horrific treatment of humans particularly women, written into a fictionalised world.
She said "read history" to learn more about times today. That takes time, effort, research and mindful consideration. She also experienced cultures different from her own. I've noticed online many people have angry opinions but little to no knowledge of the topic they're ranting about. That's "Stupidity" or Intellectually Laziness. Margaret Atwood is the opposite of intellectually lazy.
Margaret has the most beautiful dry intelligent sense of humour, very Canadian. Thanks Jon for this thoughtful interview.
Thank you for this interview, Jon. You are a wonderful interviewer… a great listener makes a great interviewer… many could learn from you. 😊
I started reading "The Handmaid's Tale" late one evening in the 80's, and I didn't stop till sunrise and the end of the book. It was scary, and the further I read, the farther I moved away in the bed from my sleeping husband. I was never so scared for my future.
The Handmaid’s Tale was a pretty close depiction of women in slavery here. The raping to breed fresh labor. The dehumanization.
How sad that you felt compelled to move away from your husband just because of a book. I am so glad I never gave 'The Handmaid's Tale' any time of my day.
@@sandratownsend9711Same here. Was never impressed with her since "Surfacing". Utter trash.
The girl in the book was happy with her family. They stole her husband and child. It wasn't the husband that betrayed her.
@@sandratownsend9711 I wasn't scared because of my husband; I was scared because I remembered how badly some men have treated women. You don't need The Handmaids Tale to know that--any honest history book will tell you the same.
Gotta love Margaret Atwood. "Think about it. Are you thinking about it? Do you have the answer?" Thanks for reminding us that 'think about it' doesn't have to be an insult, it can be valid, an instruction from someone interested in the conclusion an askee will make. I love your reaction to MA, Jon, you look in parts introspective, like a little kid learning at grandma's knee.
Like your comment, but a better word than 'askee' might be interrogator, which is really just meaning someone who asks questions.
What an interesting, intelligent, charismatic woman. Loved her stories
i’m❤
❤❤
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right."
Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
Jeeze. It's a long time since I've listened to such an intelligent, insightful, sassy woman. Amazing stuff. Thanks, Margaret.
@Daniel E. Again with the eye-roll... ?
Wonderful conversation. I wanted this interview to go on and on. My question for Ms. Atwood is , "Why are the people with the least knowledge the ones with the most advice?" I'd love to hear her advice on many topics and I wish she'd taught me history. Thank you for a wonderful podcast.
There's actually some research about that. Basically, people who are incompetent and unintelligent are quite often unaware of it. So they greatly overestimate their intelligence and think they have things worth saying
@@O1OO1O1 It’s the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Yup and knowleadgeable people are prudent, know there are nuances, and so won’t spurt out ’advice’ cookie-cutter style
@@O1OO1O1 Dunning-Kreuger.
@@O1OO1O1 "think they have things worth saying".... What a compassionate thing to say.
She is an excellent example of one who is quite elderly but very wise. A reason no one should be considered incompetent just because of old age. 😊
Wow, we're so grateful.
83 is hardly “very” elderly.
Hello @@minoozolala. I believe that it all depends on rhondah1587's age. I'm 85 and I don't think Margaret Atwood is very elderly. My 14-year-old granddaughter does not think so either. She thinks Ms. Atwood and I are incomprehensibly ancient. So, in the end, everyone is right. And I for one like it that way.
@@robertbobsky8509 You make a good point.
@@minoozolala Thank you for your kind comment. And now a bit off-topic, but I'm sure you get it. Last evening we had a family dinner, and my granddaughter proved it again. Everything teens say seems a bit over the top. They are surely the most wonderful creatures on earth.
This lady is a treasure to listen to, learn from. She doesn't just talk at you, she makes you think about what she's sharing.
Conversationalist, do you mean?
I had a boyfriend when I was in 2nd year law who spoke in tongues and his sister interpreted it. I don't think they were religious so much as they loved attention. The brother abnegated responsibility because he said he didn't know what he was saying (nobody did) and the sister was motivated by power, because who could gainsay her interpretation? This was in Canada in 1987 in a baptist church. As a young law student, I was just amazed and felt at the time that it was very important to witness it.
For some reason, the two of them stopped going to that church and the boyfriend moved to another fundamentalist church. In that church, there was a lot of pressure to couple up and baby up between the parishioners. There was much talk about "sheep stealing". There was a huge focus on donations.
The youth pastor actually apologized to me because I was forced to get a career rather than to stay home and reproduce. He couldn't fathom why I would stray from what amounted to God's work.
I had a lot of conversations with the pastor, who was the only one who was prepared to have an intelligent discussion with me, particularly given my course of education (philosophy and law). I had doubts about his bona fides because I thought he was too smart not to know exactly what he was doing with those people.
In the end, the leadership of the church came to me and told me I had to leave my boyfriend, because... he was "demon-possessed". They were entirely sincere and now they were meddling in my entirely personal life, which was where I decided to get off that bus. I accepted their offer to hide in the house of a family in the congregation for a couple of weeks so this guy couldn't find me. It put the exclamation mark at the end of the sentence. What a ride!
Every closed system creates its own rules and therefore its own reality, is supported by the ignorant and directed by the cynical. We all need to be aware that these "innocent" groups exist not just around us, but among us.
I would think that the types of experiences that you describe here would turn more people away from superstitious thinking and cult-like behavior but it seems as though we are seeing a resurgence in these groups. It is certainly more difficult to see the absurdity when you are a part of it. And like Margaret said, people lean on superstition during times of unrest
I agree. With the Mega Churches abounding throughout my Country and their misogynistic, homophobic, racist and bigoted so called Pastors help to indoctrinate the lost people in our Country and turn them into one evil mass of my Countrymen who themselves are misogynistic, homophobic, racist and bigoted. Not only do they want to rule out non-conformists from being allowed to have a presence in our society they also want to take away our Voting Block. They have taken the Christian religion and say only they are true Christians; although they act in a way that Christ would never act; and have turned Christianity into an horrible name. A lot of regular Christians are getting angry about the Mega Churches declaring that ones not in their Church aren’t REAL Christians. It’s probably the best thing to happen for the Democratic Party coming up on the 2024 elections.
@@viekent your comment assumes that people can see this absurdity. A lot of people are as stupid as a block of wood and a simply incapable of high level thinking and analysis and don't particularly care about what is true and what isn't
That's a good TV series called Psycho-Pass that explores the idea of the role. Innocent civilians play in a society. It fits in very well with Margaret's work. It's a little gruesome, but it is a good series. In particular, this theme is addressed in season 2. There's also a very good movie
there's no such things as speaking in tongues. It's mental illness or they're bullshitting you
It is great to have Margaret Atwood talk about her experiences in the Soviet Union. I had very similar experiences when I went there in the mid-seventies. I was not an author; I had only the opportunity to listen. It is a relief to know that Atwood's perceptions are spot on. Thank you so much.
Interestingly, I hear the same concerns from conservatives about the radical left in the U.S.
It would be an interesting experiment to ask people who have escaped from places like the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, N. Korea, China, etc., whether they are more concerned about the "political left", or "political right" in the U.S.
@@serpentines6356 I think we know the answer! Ms. Arwood stuck in her past.
@@serpentines6356Or places like Pinochet's Chile, Franco's Spain, Iran under either the Shah or post-revolution. Pre-1945 Japan, Germany, Italy. Manchukuo.
Ahahahaha!
Bravo 👏
I had the pleasure of training many new employees in several types of businesses. My best advice to every person was "Don't guess. Ask. You don't yet know what you don't know." It's hard to "untrain" a bad procedure.
"Geesh, why do you always have to be so difficult? who knows better here, you or me? for once just do what you're told!"
if you ask, you're labeled a difficult person, someone who doesn't accept instructions from higher up, a trouble maker, anti-authoritarian.. so.. your mileage may vary with that advice
She's one of my heroes. Thank goodness for Margaret Atwood and her insightful novels. Decent people are fighting back against the rise of religious fascism in the U.S., and around the world. We've beat them before, we'll beat them again.
"wokeness" is the new fascist religion.
So happy to see the wonderful, insightful Canadian on your your program. Here's hoping that this carnage of American democracy seep into Canada. At least, we dont have to deal with Electoral College results! Huge thanks to Margaret!🍁👏
Margaret was guest a year or two ago - it was THE BEST interview I had heard in a long time. She is so wise, so wise. I am so looking forward to this! Thank you! Margaret is a gift and a treasure.
Thank you both for this thoughtful conversation. I recognize Margaret Atwood as an author but sadly never read any of her books. Tomorrow is my 70th Birthday and I'm changing that....I'm reading THE HANDMAID'S TALE!
@@jennifermarlow. one of my favourites too. If you haven’t read Maddadam series, you’ll probably like it. Atwood is writing royalty
Read this last year at 69.
Never too late to grow intellectually.
Why read 'The Handmaid's Tale' when you can move to Florida and live it?
@@Andy1805-y8w lived in two states that have theocracy, no thank you!
A magnificent woman, her words are clear and true. She describes chaos with a calm and strong voice.
If only the idiots leading the world would listen.
But no, they ban books instead.
As a writer, I'm in awe of her skill in prose writing. I thought "The Handmaid's Tale" was going to be a dull polemic, just the usual thoughtless trashing on the patriarchy, but I wanted to borrow elements of Gilead for one of my stories. I was so wrong! Her prose just flows across the page, her scenes are powerful and striking. And I am so glad I was so wrong.
I only like to write, I have read your post, if you write everything like you just did, I will not seek your work.
@@benfordcameron7619 Well there's all sorts of good reasons for not wanting to read my stories. What about my post warned you about it?
@patpowers9210 maybe read some history and base your setting on that, like Atwood did for her book.
@@rhythmandblues_alibi I have read a little history. However, I also read an interview of Atwood in which she said that much of her book was based on talking to people who were behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, hearing about what it was like to live in repressive regimes. That added a lot to the intensity of her story as well, I suspect.
What an incredible mind this woman has. I have been in awe of Ms Atwood for decades; this video just ramped that awe up a few notches.
Thank you for having one of our Canadian treasures on. As a Canadian myself, I'm thrilled that your audience is getting a glimpse of Margaret Atwood's brilliance. 🍁
Hi there, Fellow Canadian.
This was such a great interview. Thanks Jon! Margaret is an extraordinary woman. She has obviously been inquisitive her entire life and unlike many, she was proactive in seeking answers to the many curiosities she still seems to find interesting. I love her! ❤ The next time people shoot an ageists remark please remind them about Margaret Atwood.
I knew a woman like her. We called her aunt Caroline even though we weren’t blood related. She was just a dear friend to my mom and our neighbor when I was growing up. She lived well into her 90’s. Her body gave out eventually but her mind remained razor sharp until the day she died. I’d like to think Margaret would be the same. She reminds me of my aunt Caroline. 🥰
I've been reading Margaret Atwood for over 40 years. She is one of my favourite Canadians🍁🦫and one of my favourite authors; she is a master with the written word. Her Oryx and Crake Trilogy is a masterpiece.
This woman has vast knowledge that people really need to pay attention to. She is an old soul that has knowledge that the young can apply to the future. She has my respect.
Interviews like this are why we keep the internet alive.
This was an excellent interview with a great writer and intellectual - thank you, Jon.
@Daniel E. Why?
@@billy-bg9rx Why? What is it about her writing you find fault with?
@daniele.3361I didn't like the Handmaid's Tale when I first read it, but then when I realized it's implications, I gained immense respect for her. It's a cautionary tale. It points out the frog in politics, things get incrementally hotter and hotter before you know it you're boiled. Never once did I think Trump would be president.
@daniele.3361you need some education. You can't recognize intellect when it's right in front of you. I pity you.
As the mother of a son now turning 30, give your children space to make mistakes, don't fix everything for them. Answer their questions when they ask! Teach them music and read to them every night no matter what. There, lots of advice!!
Mom always advised me to remember that I was "raising adults", not raising children. :) It made me do what you describe above. Smart women make a difference in the world. :)
@@JustMe-vk4fn Yes, my mantra (having been raised by a single mom who got her PhD in genetics when I was 5) was "I am raising a feminist son". I never forgot that and he makes me a proud mom every single day!
To which I add:
Your job as a parent is to make yourself superfluous.
In order to do that your offspring need lots of time without you where they can make mistakes, fail, take risks, explore without your guidance and challenge everything you say.
@@JustMe-vk4fn There are so few smart women anymore, every woman under 30 went to a marxist puppy mill for an education.
My kids are the only ones who sometimes just wanted to go to sleep instead of a story!
I just love this women! So much wisdom and GREAT author. Once again, you did not disappoint John!!!!!!
Thank you for interviewing Margaret Atwood, someone we all need to listen to.
Margaret Atwood is a hero of mine. This was the best interview that I have seen with her in a long time! Thank you 🙏 😊
If I could host a dinner party with great wine, moody atmosphere, and the worlds most interesting people, Margaret Atwood would definitely be there.
Wow what a great interview. Thank you for letting the brilliant ms Atwood speak at length she had so many great things to express
I love her and the wisdom she has that is not even spoken yet I'm sure is as amazing as what she has spoken. I guess I'm a bit of a odd ball but I have always loved history. My grandma is the one that pretty much raised me. She came to live with my husband and I back in 2015 at the age of 95 she died here at home in 2021 at the age of 101. All my life I would ask her questions about the things she had gone through during her life. I also used to spend a lot of time with my great great aunt who died in 1987 at the age of 87. She was born in 1900, grandma in 1920 both women lived through some amazing and hard times. Just by asking them about the things they went through, the things they saw I actually learned a lot. Except for these two women I was mostly on my own since I was 9 or 10 and especially after I turned 13. There are things people go through in life that can make them grow up to fast like me, there are things people go through that make them grow up to slow, both things happen. But learning the truth of things, learning the truth of the past first hand from those that lived it is a wonderful teacher in itself. Even if not asking direct questions about something, even though the times were very different for them then for me at say age 16 or what ever age. There is still wisdom to be gained even if we don't realize we are gaining it at the time. I think that is something we should all remember, even when we are young and dumb and think we know it all. I'm 57 now and realize I know less and admit this, then I thought I knew at 16. Yes there are some legit things that I don't know if I will ever fully understand just because of how much has changed in such a short time, and other things I am learning or remembering I was taught or shown when I was young and didn't grasp it truly until now. We all need to search out the wisdom of those older then us even if times have seemed to have changed by a great deal, because basic wisdom, especially that of the soul is still invaluable and ever lasting. There are things from the past that even now can help us, even if for nothing else but give us strength. The strength those 2 wonderful women gave me through their knowledge is the greatest gift I have ever received. So don't avoid those older in your family unless they are d--k heads who we all have in our families, but seek them out and learn at least the history from someone who lived it first hand and you may also find they have many questions for you to help them learn about now and how to cope with the now. Above all keep politics out of it as much as possible unless they ask you to help them understand the truth that is going on now. You can learn much from each other in very respectful ways.
I miss my grandparents & parents so much! My dad passed at 90 last year, my mother died when I was 11, so I had to grow up too fast, as you said! It saved me from idealism & hubris!
Such a brilliant woman. Lovely to listen to her. New ideas spill out of her. So hopeful. A blessing to the rest of us.
I read this book in a high school AP English class at a catholic school. "The Handmaids tale" was the first book I had ever read that I didnt want to put down and was actually interesting to read! It truly changed my life, helping me realize I was not crazy to see this stuff happening at many times throughout the last 30 years.
The Tao Te Ching changed my life in 7th grade!
We adore Maggie. She is incredibly humorous even though she writes such dystopian literature. Once an audience member asked her about her hair- was it real? And Maggie laughed and replied - do you think I would have hair like this on purpose? Her Massey Lecture on debt was prescient just before the crash of 2008 and she invented a remote way to sign books. She is a MARVEL and beloved by all Canadians. Thank you for this interview John.
I could listen to her have a conversation with almost anyone about anything.
I’m 64 and loved sitting at my grandmas knees listening to her wisdom. This Lady 🌹reminds me so very much of those days. Thank you is not enough 🙏
i relate to this, i worshipped my grandmother.
I am Canadian... my sister and I just finished watching the interview (together, and from different towns) I echo my sister with Wow! We love you Margaret Atwood, your candid response and easy-going, make sense info!
She is such a great example of how to have class, a sense of humor & intelligence. ❤
Margaret Atwood is an under appreciated National Treasure. Thank you for having her on your podcast. ❤ come this Canadian. Keep up the very important and excellent work you are doing
Fascinating lady. She's spent many years thinking about everything.
many years writing (which distills and coalesces thoughts)
this is not to suggest you are wrong
And reading everything. I think I read two of Richardson's novels, one assigned, the second to see if they were really that bad. I can't imagine choosing to read the third, though I understand why she did it. Think about all the reading she has done to develop that level of knowledge.
Margaret Atwood is a very smart woman, and this interview was spot on. I live in Germany, so I’m well aware of all the spying that was done here with the Gestapo during the war as well as the spying in East Germany by the so-called “Stasi” (Staatssicherheitsdienst = state security service), which is literally the same thing as the Gestapo. I recently had a German friend of my mother tell me how she and her family were questioned and spied on for years just because her older brother had escaped to the West just before the wall was built.
I’m also very aware of the dangers of fascist autocracy, which is why I closely observe what is happening in the States right now. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but you are definitely heading in that direction if Republicans get their way and if Trump is re-elected.
Thank you for saying this out loud. We need more people from other countries to say these things. I always ask any of my foreign relatives/friends on what their opinion is of him/us to see if I’ve become too blinded by my hatred of the man and his followers. Their opinions are always similar to those you stated. I have hope that the young people coming up now can get us out of this mess. At least I pray they do. Thank you for your opinion. 😊
@@primatecarer3707 Believe me, a lot of people over here hate him, too. I’ve spoken to elderly people who were still kids when Hitler came to power and are still alive. They all say they see similarities and it scares them.
Look also at what happened when Trump visited London, the masses of protesters that absolutely despise him. He was taken a different route so that he didn’t see the protesters and only got to see the few who were out there to support him, but knowing Trump, you can bet he watched the news. He lied to his supporters when he told them they loved him.
You can cross the borders here in Europe and always find people in other countries who despise him, so no, you’re not blinden by your hatred, we see through him, too.
@IntelligentLife Thanks, I’ll see if I can find it somewhere here.
I have never understood the reasoning behind post WWII East Germans being harassed, stopped and even murdered for leaving the country. What did the government think they were accomplishing with such a policy, that basically turned the country into a prison camp?
They gained nothing useful doing this by literally admitting that their country wasn't worth living in.
But now all that is over, and nobody supervises the population in germany anymore. Happy times.
“Good, Evil, & Stupid. Don’t forget stupidity”.
Best line EVER! 😇👿🤪
Thanks for reminding me of that bon mots. She drops so many of them, it's hard to remember.
Stupid people are in fact dangerous especially when they're in the Dunning-Kreuger section of stupidity mixed with power and money.
I rather Greed, Anger and Stupidity. Good and evil are matters of opinion and taste, but everybody recognises Greed and Anger in any language. Ignorance is a bit harder.
Charming interview! Jon, you are such a great listener, and you were very respectful of Margaret- so engaging.
I've never loved Atwood's books, but I adore her essays and conversations. She is amazing. ❤
I only discovered the Handmaid’s Tale one month ago then binged watched it to the last published episode and I must say that this frightened to me and opened my eyes more to what’s happening now in the Republican Party. We as democrats and conscious citizens must work now to fight against the Republicans. We the “exhausted majority” want our freedom back! It’s up to us!
Today’s Democrat Party: George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right."
Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’.
And yet the Democrats are the party of The State and ever expanding bureaucracies. Right wing political philosophy champions individual liberties, limited government, and free markets. Granted they don’t abide by these principles but they are the best chance of delaying the destination of Serfdom.
I agree, BUT--let's not demonize all Republicans, let's reach out to them. When I was growing up, Republicans and Democrats could still be friends, and they worked together in the House and Senate. I must hope that can happen again.
@@88Ariadne88 George Orwell’s 1984 "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture repainted, every statue, street and building renamed, every date altered and the process continues day by day...nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right."
Ronald Reagan (1975): ‘If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism’
Look into yuri bezmenov
Jon, I really like this podcast. I appreciate both extremes being discussed. I'm a professor and author of fiction too and I feel like I already censor what I say in my lectures. My job has been to teach the facts. However, now it's uncomfortable to discuss certain topics because of how that could be wrongly perceived. I've been teaching over 28 years and never thought I would have to censor how I speak. It's so sad.
I feel for teachers at all levels. Best to you.
However when we self censor and
second guess our instruction we in
some degree have given the Christo
Fascist authoritarians a victory.
DeSantis is a bully and self-serving
POS. Unfortunately he is just one
of many.
As a gay male in Western New York
Teen before Stonewall, 20 + in the
70s I self-censored until coming
out in '73. Life has been better
ever since, 100%.
P.S. I do recognize that when teaching is your livelihood a heavy burden is imposed. Good luck and blessings!
above directed to Ann Marie Knapp.
Why censor yourself? We are not in Florida
Is that not the opposite of academic honesty? I taught until 20 years ago, but always found a way to say what needed to be said. Not every student would have got my point, but the top third of most classes either would, or would have been curious enough to go searching.
Sheila Durant, Thank you for your
years of honesty and ingenuity.
"qui tacet consentire," silence gives
consent. I for one and hopefully
many others will not be intimidated
into silence and nonexistence.
(The quote is from P. 88 of
A Man for All Seasons, Robert Bolt's
brilliant play about Sir Thomas More.
Vintage Books paperback, 1962)
Durrant
Margaret Atwood is one of the people that makes me say "I wish I had said that".
I have never listened to or read Margaret Atwood. That will change. She is brilliant, so observant. Margaret makes so much sense.
I just stumbled across Ms. Atwood's novel "Lady Oracle," and I loved it! It's hilarious, completely different than any other book from Ms. Atwood that I've ever read.
What an amazingly curious and inherently critical person. Margaret Atwood's perspective is a rare gift to the societies that currently occupy this planet.
Margaret Atwood...SHERO! Brilliant, articulate and wise,
Atwood is woman’s wizard. I always feel the 60’s & the assassinations. “Regimes will kill you …” that is how I have always felt politically is fearful & guilty. Thank you so much, I have watched Handmaid’s Tale with my grand-daughter. Bless you for everything. It is such a joy to be able to tell you thanks from the bottom of my heart. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Legendary Feminist creature.....
I have watched this interview before. Margaret Atwood is one of my favorite authors. She is subtly sly in her writing. Brilliant ‼️
Nort Korea, the Great Leader has given every house a free radio. The radio has no off button but you can reduce the volume at night,how thoughtful.!
Where most sane people see The Handmaid's Tale as a warning there are others who see it as a how to manual. The combination of the sudden rise of the charismatic evangelical church and a fascist political movement in America is scary af. When I was younger I always imagined the Nazis were a smallish group of thugs who managed to rule by fear but looking back at old footage of Nazi Germany it's now clear that those people at the mass rallies or lining the streets weren't afraid or coerced to clap and cheer but were ecstatically and gleefully present for it with all their heart and soul. This is where I think Ms Atwood got it wrong a little when saying the reason Putin and others like him are able to establish a totalitarian regime. Yes fear is there for the small group who might oppose him but by and large the average Russian is on board through a mixture of feelings of national pride and paranoia. Putin like Hitler has mastered the art of demagoguery. Despite being a mighty nation the average Russian believes the rest of the world is out to destroy their nation and culture just as did the average German. The West didn't have enough imagination to understand that the humiliation of the Russian people with the collapse of the USSR would create the same conditions that caused the rise of fascism in Germany.
I’m not sure it’s a lack of imagination as much as an incredible amount of hope. With Gorbachev and his followers, America thought Russia was really beginning to align itself with most of the rest of the world. It’s only been since Putin that Russia has again isolated itself. We weren’t ready for what Putin did but we knew that this population could easily slip back into totalitarianist thinking. The old Soviet Union isn’t that far gone from their lives. Most Russians grew up under the Soviet regime and feel comfortable with it. This was well understood but America could do very little about it without starting a war.
She addresses this. The most vociferous in opposition are beaten killed jailed. Seeing that, the rest fall in line. Or escape. Viola. Everyone wants to needs to get something 'out of it' just to survive and care for their families. The masses won't sit and starve in opposition - they - and you if you had to - will fall in line.
That's because there was something in it for them, or at least they were convinced of it. Until they weren't, and it was too late.
Don't forget a simple reason that is happening right now in America and that is an old method that still works: information.
How much do people know? To what kind of information do they have access? Do they think the "others" are wrong or are the enemy?
I spoke with this intelligent well educated chinese woman that was offended someone refered to Tibet as a country on itself. For her it's simply a part of China. That's what she learned at school and on the tv since always. I tried my best diplomacy and explained that for her it was normal to think of Tibet as part of China, but for us we always heard the story a different way...
Folks in Germany just elected some guys that seemed to have some interesting ideas. They didn't vote gor war and concentration camps. The same way most people that vote Republican don't actually want to lose the right to abortion and affordable health care.
The same way some people may support Putin, many fear him and tons dream of when he'll go away. But it's hard to mobilize opposition. And when you try, the forces in power fight back with brutality.
The Handmade Tale is a reminder that we are never too far away from disaster.
Iran right now is hell for women and not so many decades ago they had a lot more freedom. Some women may have thought it was a good change, some may still agree with it according to their "info", but ALL of them live with the consequences of a couple dudes decisions.
this is an insane take. Putin is bad but comparing him to Hitler is actually insane. Putin is bad in the same way that Bush was bad.
she's amazing, i could listen to her all day, or at least begin my day with a few of her wisdom nuggets. thanks for having her on
Thanks for bringing Margaret to us in this conversation. She's a treasure. 🤓
This is a perfect example of an older person who has a sharp mind and a lifetime of experience a combination that is hard to beat and an asset that has a lot to offer humanity and a stark comparison to the many empty vessels that fill the space particularly in the political sphere especially on the right side of the spectrum
One of the few authors that I have read her books multiple times. They are so dense and complex and pertinent.
If my mother were still alive, she would be saying these things, in very similar ways. Made me cry. Thank you. Reminds me why I continue the struggle.
I enjoyed this interview so much. It had me lol numerous times. I was pleased to find out the Ms Atwood was also a fan of Grimm’s Fairy Tales as a young girl and my mother loved finding me the most beautifully illustrated books with those stories. Your convo made me appreciate her more. Thank you Jon. 👍🏽
'Maybe you should read a bit of history." The book banners don't read, they just fearfully react.Two wonderful and intelligent people conversing. Thank you for giving us this.
Exactly…those of us who are avid readers are terrified for what this current autocratic trend means….i have Handmaid’s Tale…off to buy her other books…..
My five year old granddaughter just told me she knew everything. I kid you not. I related this story to a cabdriver this afternoon and he said his 41/2 year old son told him the same thing. lol. Their generation is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Delightful, insightful, interview. Much appreciated.
I used to look forward to watching Bill Moyers thoughtful interviews on Moyers & Company. Now I look forward to Offline in the same way. Another wonderful show.
I miss Moyers so much.
Aw yes, loved Bill Moyers
Good comparison.