The Rifle of Real-Life Mountain Man Seth Kinman
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 лис 2018
- Seth Kinman was the quintessential mountain man who rubbed elbows with presidents, hunted grizzlies by the dozen, and had one hunting rifle at his side throughout it all. It is proudly offered this December by Rock Island Auction Company.
Follow us!
Facebook: / rockislandauctioncompany
Twitter: / riauction
Instagram: / rockislandauction
Man..... that right there gives me chills, imagine if that ole girl could talk. The stories she could tell, have always been fascinated with the time of mountain men and how they lived but to see an actual rifle that kept one goin is unbelievable.
I’ve been very interested in the mountain man era since I was a child. This is so cool to see the actual rifle.
This guy was not a mountain man. And the rifle at best is not typical. I think he is more likely a wannabe rather that the real thing. At best he is a guy that went to California to look for gold, heard some stories and made up a persona. Maybe he did hunt Gbears in CA. But this is +- 20 years after the beaver trapping real mountain men moved on to other things. This rifle. In the form shown in the period photos is most likely and “over the chunk” type match rifle from Kentucky or Tennessee. Why its had parts added sometime and the 1870s or whenever we will never know. Unless someone WAS using it as a chunk rifle later. Many old guns were modified in the 1920s-1950s to make them worth more. As pictured its a classic “poor boy” or “barn gun” except the caliber is FAR to large and I suspect its been bored smooth for use as a shotgun at some time in its life since rifles of this caliber are rare in the extreme in the US of any period. Especially with a swamped barrel. Chances are he found this rifle in Illinois or there abouts and used it as a studio prop.
SUPERBLY DONE! I am in awe that the rifle survived on one hand but yet it was famous in its own right by all the photographs. These photos may well be the reason it did survive? An amazing piece of history, thank you.
the authenticity and history of that 200+ year old firestick has blown my mind.
You can tell it used to be a flintlock(patchbox hole in stock, ramrod) and was converted after 1825(caps weren't invented until 1820 converting started around 1834)
Or it's a grease hole
Man I wish I could have this rifle. I grew up hearing stories about Mr. Kinman. Very glad to have had the opportunity to see it.
Wow.. INCREDIBLE EXCITING. LET'S hope it REMAINS intact and displayed for MANY years to come.
That is just so awesome! I’m glad it found a home where it will be taken care of .
So many qualified historians and firearm experts this channel and these guys jobs will be made redundant soon
One of the few men killed at the Battle of New Orleans was a Fairless, so this was very interesting to me, his son was named Andrew Jackson Fairless. Thanks for the history lesson.
Where's Ian?
To me as a hunter what this says to me is that Kinman had significant confidence in how this gone shot and the man machine interface for him and he based that on how it handled and delivered success consistently
What a delight to see a period rifle. In my youth I had the opportunity to hold a true Hawken in my hands... the feeling stays with me.
The book 'Mountain Man' by Vardis Fisher is a great book about a trapper from this period. Best wishes from Sussex UK.
I have two brown bess, one pennsylvania musket and one henry weiss breech. These guns have so much history to them, it's amazing to hear the stories attached to the rifle. Also I own a Lee Enfield .303 bolt. Wonder how many people can attach the memories to the rifle.
Absolutely awesome history. Never heard of this guy Seth, but I see a lot of antique guns in the sea one with the history like that is absolutely incredible Lincoln held that rifle wow!
Imagine how crazy this is just for two seconds. They are holding the same piece of equipment this man once did 200 years ago. Absolutely insane! I have a few old rifles myself (on my channel) and only wish they could talk!
Northern Woodsman I feel that way holding a 1923 penny
They don't talk, but have a hell of a Bark.
@@jfc1432 thanks :)
I like the old and historic guns .. they have some history .. my dream is to have a rifle like this or similar and an 1860 pistol .. great video .. cheers
What a fabulous piece of history
Something like this needs to be preserved! (PLEASE)This is a part of history that needs to be protected. A true and real reminder of a time when men where real men and new what they were and not put down for it.I hope who ever gets this is rich enough in their soul to be able to donate it in their name to the Smithsonian, so that everyone can see a real part of all of our historical past. Something that we all need to be reminded of.Thank you for sharing this whit us it was well done!
Thank You.
For those who have inquired in the comments, the bore measured as .68 caliber at the muzzle.
Additional information can be found in the item listing: www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/111/seth-kinman-mountain-man-rifle
.68 cal? Gawd that had some punch. And probably a good reach in its day. No wonder he was knocking down griz.
Probably has a "coned" muzzle for faster, easier loading. True bore diameter is probably 58. The barrel may have beern " freshed out" once or twice in its lifetime. It may have started out a ,50. Then bored to 54 then finally to 58.
They didnt give up on guns back then.
needs to be in a museum for all to enjoy.
Really COOL!!!, love this era of american history, it needs to be in a museum!!!
Get the weight off the ram rod, it’s killing me
With all thats going on YOU'RE worried about an antique ram rod that isn't even yours, i'd bet a great many things bother you in life....i couldn't imagine, were did it go wrong Jeffery ?.....Never mind.
Yeah, they wear gloves, but bend the ramrod??? Ya suppose Ol' Seth only touched his rifle with gloves on? Ha!
@Shang Hunter. Hell yes that's what he is worried about and I was worried about the ramrod too. How about be a little nicer with your responses in the future. Re,ember, we're all here because we share a similar interest and on the same team.
@@boweavil1063 jm
My first thought at 39 seconds
Just this afternoon, my wife and I visited the Table Bluff Cemetery located in Loleta, Ca, where Seth Kinman and his family are buried, cool old cemetery….. we live just up the road a few miles…..
I do hope a Museum can purchase this, this is such an important bit of early American history.
That's pretty incredible!
Awesome gun. I'm very fond of my 50 Cal and absolutely love Hunting with it.
what kind you do you have? i have a cva mountian rifle in 50 caliber.
Oh man ... This was cool!
I wish you would've talked more about the rifles specifics. Like the maker, caliber, etc... But overall well done.
So awesome 👌
Yes, wiping out the California Grizzlies is an hilarious matter..I liked your little giggle there
6:32-6:36 seeing the marks in the stock in the old photo and then the new video is pretty neat.
Incredible ..!
Incredible story and firearm
The barrel had to have been freshened more than once during its lifetime. Also, the buckhorn rear sight was probably added later because I don't think they were used on early 19th-century rifles. They came about during the plains rifle period.
Man, the history that thing has seen!
I wish the Museum Of The Mountain Men in Pinedale Wyoming could have purchased this gun , or the Winchester Firearms Museum in Cody , WY.
Wow what a piece of history. Would be nice if better mics were used.
Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY is a treasure
Seth had a six-flat hex bolt on his hammer ad side-plate? I wouldn't have thought that.
Incredible
Never showed the other side of the gun, or gave any dimensions, or explained why the plug is missing from the stock (missing percussion cap box?)
The hole in the stock is 'Poor boy' style instead of a patchbox. Kept wax or grease there for lubing patches.
if i could afford this gun, i would place it on the wall, and admire it at the very least once a day.
I am surprised it did not go to a museum for the history's sake.
The only part of this rifle that could possibly have been at the battle of new Orleans is the barrel, maybe the front sight. The rear sight is is a California buckhorn sight. The old lock that was on the rifle, while it has been converted for the original flint is in a later flint pattern, but was not original to the gun as evidenced from the size of the lock mortis which you mention. The barrel "might" have been at the battle of new Orleans, but we know that Kinman was a showman on the lecture circuit, so the story might be a fabrication. However, arms like these are bought and sold on their history and whether the history is correct is immaterial. The person who buys this rifle is getting a very good deal. Thanx for showing it.
Interesting stuff man.
If Kinman participated in the California gold rush, wasn't he of later date than the real mountain men trappers?
Held by President Lincoln. What a treasure
Been nice to get a little pertinent info, like make (Kentucky?) Caliber, 50-54?
Wow, if that thing could talk. At least there are photos.
Whatcom County had a black powder club in the eighties when I had acreage there: you had to make your own outfit AND your gun, (execpt for the approved working gun parts) in order to be welcome to shoot. No store bought allowed! I'd guess the club is still around, and there are more elsewhere???
wow what a gun and a storey
Wonder who bought this rifle? Saw it in an issue of American Frontiersman magazine awhile back.
I presume you guys are the experts but owning several antique firearms all the way back to a matchlock that from the video does not in any way look like a conversion. Owning 2 such firearms in my small collection I would really like to know how the was determined to be a pre 1815 firearm converted from flintlock to percussion.
COOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!
This my rifle, this is my gun. This is for shooting and this is for fun.
WOW.
How much $ did it make at the auktion ?
Amazing artifakt!
Wonder what caliber it was I didn't hear them say.
Seth Kinmen was my great grandmother's uncle. He settled around Ferndale, Calif and is buried nearby. He was quite a character and actually made that chair he is pictured in. When he pulled a hidden string the grizzly would open its mouth like it was roaring. He made a couple other chairs similar to it with elk horns and hooves. He was a storyteller par excellence and a braggart in true mountain man style.
Unfortunately he was a racist and a real jerk.
He boasted that he had killed 40+ grizzly bears using dead indians as bait. Not a very nice person.
Isn't it funny how no1 ever says anything about the mutual racism of the old days...most indians hated whites & blacks just the same. And blacks & whites were terrified by the demonic barbarism of many native tribes, so killing an insanely wicked, mutilating murderer of men/women & children was a good thing for all around. Even the fair-minded, normal tribes wanted peace from the crazy tribes...which led to many young Indian men scouting for whites. Your ancestor was a normal human being in his era...and he likely did the region a favor with his weapons.
What did it sell for, and who bought it?
Wished there was more description on what bone material the front sight was made of.
Bet that lighter colored front side was easier to line up between the dark colored backsight iron; as well as the dark fur of the game. 121618
Yes, that's why period front sight blades were most often made of brass.
When I shot black powder competition, I always shined my front sight before matches, and wiped it frequently.
Same as modern fiber optic sights.
The front sight is supposed to be elephant ivory based upon the description from when it sold back in 2010.
@@TupeloOrdnanceWorks ,
Thanks for that info. I wonder when that was done, as I don't think it's original
Turn on the lights
Its sad in a way that this will go into some rich dudes private collection......
Should really be in a museum given its impressive history.
honestly, a private collector who can afford this piece would be able to take better care of it than any museum, think of all the stress that is put on a piece in a museum, allways someone who wants to touch it, the harsh lights that shine on it day in and day out, give it 10-20 years and it will end up in worse state than it already is, or worse, be put on a shelf in a forgotten section of a museums storage closet, never to be appreciated for who knows how long.
Ever heard of a "curator"? 😂
AcolyteOF Fire Have you seen how they house Davy Crockett rifles in Tennessee or the Alamo? Nobody can touch it or nobody even asks to touch it, it's behind glass and people aren't that stupid. ?
What museums do you go to where you can touch things like this?
intro song?? i love it
what calibar
What’s the intro song?
How much did it sell for?
Impressive dude. I would love to hear him tell the story of restocking his bear chewed gun out there in the wildersess.
whats the intro song called?
"Ach du lieber, mein schatz"!!! Wunnerful piece of great history. BUT why do you NOT mention the caliber & barrel length & kind of metal (twisted iron?)??? To me, the "caliber" is what a Hawken rifle is all (or mostly!) about! How about the gun's weight? "Gesundheit"!!!
Not a Hawken, it is a eastern style mtn. Rifle.
Exactly. How did they manage not to say anything about it's most important ballistic features(aside from those ghastly sights). That don't look like a gun that's killed scores of grizzlies either unless grizzlies are a lot easier to kill than I gave them credit for. Not buying this one.
it was more or less a kentucky rifle probably .45 caliber.
@@steelgila I agree find it hard to believe he killed a grizzly bear with that gun.
@@steelgila step on over some time partner. got a pretty good copy made by cva 40 yrs ago. slow twist patched ball. VERY POWERFULL with 80 grains black powder.
I'm suspicious that this guy was more a showman than mountain man. Like the guy said having this many pics of a gun in that time period doesnt happen.....unless you're in California, the home of show business
I quest you have no idea who he was than..
@@rickeyryan303 well only what the "stories" say
Can't find it on your website.......🤔🤔
www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/111/seth-kinman-mountain-man-rifle
THANKS
Cool story. What caliber is it
Seth kinman is my great great uncle
Him got fire stick.
Great rifle and cool info but , what is the round cut out in the butt stock for ?
That is called the patch box, it was eliminated when the rifle was converted from a flintlock to a percussion. Most likely around 1832 or shortly after.
@@shanghunter7697 It was a grease hole. One of the earliest and simplest ways of greasing the cloth patch that would hold the round ball as it was seated on the powder charge. I do not believe that there was ever a top on it at all.
To hold Grizzer Bear grease to lube the linen patches that surround the ball, gripping it and marrying the two to the rifling grooves and also acting as an obturator.
Seth Kinman is my great great great great grandfather!
Any relation to Jim Anderson from Eureka?
Well, you sure do have a LOT of kin in the comment section then.
Great!
what caliber was it
Hmmm. Was restocked, converted from flint to percussion got a new stock got a new lock, got a new butt plate... is it really the same gun that fought at New Orleans?
NO WAY TO KNOW. PART OF THE MYSTERY OF IT.
I wonder. Why is the lock plate different in one photo. I could be wrong.
wel lthey said its been repaired to the point where the gun is almost a completely different firearm compared to it's original configuration.
@@acolyteoffire4077 Iv'e still got the same axe my Great Great Grandfather had when he was a boy... It's only had 8 new handles and 3 new heads....!!
Did u watch and listen to the video???
Josh Rogan lol!
Why would that guy interrupt any of the historical information surrounding this artifact? It is the history the controls the value of the artifact.
I wonder if he new hatchet Jack?
What was the Caliber ?
Is that an elk tooth front sight?
Wonder if he ever shot a Sasquatch?
BOTH sides ar New Orleans did not know the treaty had been signed.
(Think sailing ships)
I do declare I do believe this gun has been bubbaized. It was a hand made one of kind that was seriously reworked during its day and continued to give service through two lifetimes. I think it would have started life as a "poor boy" then got reworked by a blacksmith, not to be confused with a gun smith, and restocked by a man who'd never stocked a gun before but it certainly is an historical artifact and was handled by President Lincoln.
Why is there no movie about this guy?
Most Mt. men stuck with flints locks because you could make your own flints. You had to purchase caps in town. This man was a market hunter and not my idea of a Mt. Man.
I'm 5th gen Californian, 4 of those generations in Humboldt County, where Kinman hunted most of his elk and griz. The County is bigger than the State of Rhode Island, but even today only has the population of a small suburb. The terrain is steep and rugged, and because of the wet coastal conditions is choked with undergrowth everywhere but under the densest redwood canopies. I can't remember the link right now, but online is a diary from one of my ancestors from the 1870's , part of which describes the efforts of my family to help a lesser prepared family survive the winter. Kinman was indeed a savy marketeer and showman, but he was ABSOLUTELY a Mountain Man.
had to get powder in town also.
@@williamdaniels6943 percussion caps were just one more thing that could go wrong. Which is why at least early on, flint was the way to go. A true mountain man of the mountain man era didn't have a town to go to. He went to Rendezvous or if he were in the southern Rockies Taos or Santa Fe.
@@jamesharville1489 He wasn't a Mountain Man in the accepted sense of the term. He wasn't Jim Bridger, Kit Carson, Jedediah Smith, Hugh Glass or dozens of other actual mountain men. He was a frontiersman and many other things, but not a Mountain Man. He didn't even get to California until 1849, the mountain man era was already over. And the term Mountain Man is associated with the Rocky Mountains not the California coastal ranges.
@@williamdaniels6943 Native Americans got gun powder somewhere without going to town. Could have been from traders however the ingredients are charcoal, sulfur, and ammonia nitrite you can get from manure or your own urine. The recipe was extremely common knowledge. While I believe most people purchased Black powder my data is some people made their own. While modern publishers would shy away from telling how to make black powder in my youth it was not so. Reenactor types had their favorite recipes. In one case the maker claimed he liked to use his urine to wet the cake when mixing it. Make it into a cake. Let it dry and then break it up. That is called corning. He then sifted it for size. He said using the urine seemed to add a little extra punch. Making black powder is not rocket science but it can be extremely dangerous.
Some powder mills actually had the boards on the walls loosely attached so a blast could easily push them off allowing the building to decompress more easily thus saving the frame and maybe some of the people inside. When Black powder burns it needs some resistance to push against while the pressure builds up which explains why the Boston bombers put the stuff inside a pressure cooker rather than just wrapping it up in wrapping paper. For some reason I seem to be able to recalling a staggering amount of information that is of no earthly use to me whatsoever.
According to Kinman he killed over 800 grizzlies with that gun.
Any update on what it sold for?
It would be great to see this and other guns owned by famous people in a museum. Where you could pay and wear plastic gloves. Then get to hold each one briefly and have pic. to have held the guns famous in our history. Charge fifty dollars a head all day long. Have them also standing on 3in. of foam rubber in case of a drop.
Is Ian okay? Where's Ian?
Warren Okuma noooooooo gun Jesus
Ian is knowledgeable and well spoken. I had some trouble understanding the first speaker, but could not understand the second at all. This video did not have cc.
What caliber ?
omg....it's all through the comment section and links provided, read, search, click and you'll find your answers.
White brass, a.k.a. German silver, was a popular material for front sight blades during that era, but the Kinman rifle appears to have an ivory front sight blade. If so, do you know if it was one of Seth's innovations?
IN THOSE SHOOTING A RIFLE LIKE THAT WAS AN INDIVIDUAL SKILL AND MOST WERE ALTERED SOME TO FIT THERE OWNER.
It is elephant ivory and would have been one of the "innovations". Information comes from the Bohnam Auction of the rifle back in 2010.
Many thanks for the information.
Just to let ye know . Its on its way to IRELAND
Why you think they had gloves???
A working man's rifle is used to handling, what's with the gloves? GEES!