I am glad to see affordable third party repairs like this are available. QC Charge really knows their way around batteries and how to do the job properly. Thanks for sharing! 😀
Hey! Thanks for the video. How do you bleed the cell voltage with pre charge resistor? Is there any books you recommend for EV repairs? I work as a mechanic in New Zealand trying to learn about EVs. Thank you
Really appreciate what you do. Randomly started researching these older leafs and it definitely would be nice to breathe life into them all. Insane that most of them for sale seem to only have ~30-60k worth of miles and yet they are essentially bricked other than for niche use cases. Any light at the end of the upgrade tunnel? Have to imagine tech will unlock their potential in the near future
We already do battery upgrades for the LEAF (and have been doing so for over 2 years). These days, the "easiest" batteries to get are aftermarket/remanufactured packs from China, which use CATL cells, which can go anywhere from ~150-300mi depending on the size. They are pretty expensive though, so they tend to only be for the most dedicated of LEAF owners!
@@QCCHARGE yea saw you guys do it 👍. Just felt like the price was tough to justify, spending 10+ thousand vs putting that towards a newer used vehicle that still has warranty etc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Federal rebate next year should help. Think those battery prices need to come down about 50% or so to really be competitive.
Does anyone know a company here in the USA that has the wisdom to work on a way to use new modules to replace used ones in the battery pack and profit from this aftermarket need?
i have 2011 nissan leaf with degraded battery 24KWH , there is no help around Sacramento California to check if the whole battery is bad or maybe just few cells . I'm not mechanic nor electrician but slowelly i'm thinking to dive in to project . Take the battery pack out , take apart , test each cell and find out . Question come out : where i can purchase those individual modules ?
In this particular case that we showed in the video, the cell in question was pretty much totally failed, and had gotten the car to a point where it was essentially undrivable, so I would not typically consider this to be a viable repair to address degradation. For a situation like yours, where the main issue is just degradation, the cells are likely degraded fairly evenly. Sometimes the cells at the back of the pack degrade a bit faster than the rest, (as that's where the modules are grouped together and the most heat builds up), but likely not enough to make a huge difference. The easiest way to see if you do have any weak cells would be to look at your cell voltage data using LEAFspy. If the cells tend to stay within a 20-30mv difference throughout the charge/discharge curve, then you probably don't have any cells that are "appreciably" weaker than the rest. Unless you have an edge case like the one in this video, I'd say by swapping out modules, you'd probably only be able to see a single digit percentage improvement in capacity, so your cost vs. benefit is not going to be very good as far as that sort of procedure goes... You'd probably be much better off simply finding a used pack that is less degraded (though that can also be easier said than done).
Nice informative video! Thanks! I am crossing my fingers that a 3rd party pack replacement comes out (Like the EVs Enhanced liquid cooled battery) for us OG Leaf owners. I'd love to keep this car on the road instead of getting scrapped. (Sadly I don't live anywhere near Vista, I'm in NorCal)
We are actually currently working with a vendor who may be able to supply us with aftermarket batteries. We are waiting on some initial samples, and hope to have more info in a few months...
What's a 6 bar 2012 Leaf realistically worth? I paid under $2500 for low mileage 8 bar car to flip, and getting nervous seeing a bunch of similar cars on Facebook for $3000-$4000 not selling after months online.
informative. thanks for sharing. it is sad it takes a good number hours in labor to get it back to a working condition. which I would imagine surpass the value of the car. good for DIYing or learning project otherwise many of these will end up in junkyard.
There was quite a bit of labor (about 10-12 hours), but that's really the majority of the cost involved. The battery module itself is only worth ~$100 at most, so the total cost (depending on labor costs wherever you're at) should be between $1500-2000. In today's market, these LEAFs have a pretty strong value, even with a degraded battery. This one is rougher shape than most (severely peeling clear coat), but around Southern California, I'd say it's still worth about $4-5k (though just 2 years ago, it probably would've only been worth half that).
No they won't. They'd get new battery or refurbished battery and keep on going. People do 24/40 kWh swaps and 24/60kWh swaps on them everywhere around the world. To get yourself a car like that one and pay for 24kWh dead battery - to 60kWh good battery swap is still around 30% cheaper than just getting similar range/size BEV on the market. There's even a New Zealand company homologating it's aftermarket 40kWh battery based on LFP cells and with cooling system all squized into original Leaf 24kWh battery cover. So what you're saying is similar to "well my timing belt failed and ruined an engine on my 10 years old $10 000 car - I'm gonna scrap the whole thing!" kind of approach in ICE world.
@@SuperAti15 I agree that battery swaps are popular but any 40 or 60kwh battery will have come from a used car so its own capacity will be less than the headline figure - I would be a lot happier if I could point Leafspy at the replacement battery before purchase.
Awesome video! Thanks. What is the criterion for choosing a replacement module? Looks like your criterion is that the module's SoH (remaining capacity as a percentage of the original capacity) should match that car's SoH closely enough?
Yes, we want the SoH to be as close as possible (within a few percentage points) to make sure the BMS will be able to keep up with balancing for the foreseeable future. If the module is not close enough in terms of capacity, the cell voltages can drift apart over time and cause issues down the road. Whether it could last a week, a month, a year, etc. would depend on how big of a difference there is in capacity, as well as how much the car is driven, and how far the battery gets discharged on a regular basis.
I have 50,000 miles at about 5 years on my 2017 e-Golf. I see max delta of about 10 mV mV- 13 mV across the 88 “cells” (three cells in parallel) in e-Golf pack. It seems to me Samsung SDI cells are pretty well made. I know 24 kWh cars had Panasonic cells, which I’m guessing are also pretty reliable. Have you had any e-Golfs in your shop for HV battery issues?
We haven't had any e-Golfs in the shop! Though, it's worth noting, the vast majority of them are still under the 8 year, 100k mi battery warranty. This year, the first ones would have started coming off warranty (apart from the ones over the mileage limit), so I guess we'll see if any of them start popping up anytime soon...
Hi great video. I wanted to ask there are over seas battery's being made with catl modules .they are 17000 but can someone change all modules and rewire battery to get more milage and a 100% of battery life
It is possible to swap in a larger battery out of a newer LEAF (in fact we have a video about doing just that). Unfortunately those batteries are VERY difficult to get ahold of... It's likely "possible" to swap modules out of some other battery with enough time and money, but for one off projects, it's not really financially feasible unless you have a lot of technical knowledge, fabrication experience, and can complete the work yourself... I think I know of the battery you are talking about, and hopefully those will make it to the U.S. and the costs will be reasonable at scale.
@@QCCHARGE I hope so too.ive found a company that makes them but over seas and the pictures look good and about 400 miles of range so I hope the battery's do arrrive
How's the Leaf battery upgrade business going? With all the new EV's coming out, I'm curious if there's still a lot of people trying to upgrade their older Leafs.
We get calls and emails pretty much every day, but the biggest problem is actually finding batteries to do upgrades with... We are working on a potential new battery solution and hope to have updates on that later this year.
Are you working with EV's Enhanced in New Zealand? They appear to have a promising new solution, a third-party Leaf battery with integrated liquid cooling.
We have been in contact with them about it, and it does seem like a very promising option. However, it sounds like their battery will most likely not be available outside of New Zealand for at least a year (maybe more).
I am glad to see affordable third party repairs like this are available. QC Charge really knows their way around batteries and how to do the job properly. Thanks for sharing! 😀
Hey! Thanks for the video. How do you bleed the cell voltage with pre charge resistor? Is there any books you recommend for EV repairs? I work as a mechanic in New Zealand trying to learn about EVs. Thank you
Great skills, I wish my local mechanics knew about EV maintenance. That weather really wears away the battery 6 bars left ouch!
Really appreciate what you do. Randomly started researching these older leafs and it definitely would be nice to breathe life into them all. Insane that most of them for sale seem to only have ~30-60k worth of miles and yet they are essentially bricked other than for niche use cases. Any light at the end of the upgrade tunnel? Have to imagine tech will unlock their potential in the near future
We already do battery upgrades for the LEAF (and have been doing so for over 2 years). These days, the "easiest" batteries to get are aftermarket/remanufactured packs from China, which use CATL cells, which can go anywhere from ~150-300mi depending on the size. They are pretty expensive though, so they tend to only be for the most dedicated of LEAF owners!
@@QCCHARGE yea saw you guys do it 👍. Just felt like the price was tough to justify, spending 10+ thousand vs putting that towards a newer used vehicle that still has warranty etc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Federal rebate next year should help. Think those battery prices need to come down about 50% or so to really be competitive.
How much to do the repair?
An informative and educational video. Thanks for sharing your EV tech skills and a great result too! Well done.
Does anyone know a company here in the USA that has the wisdom to work on a way to use new modules to replace used ones in the battery pack and profit from this aftermarket need?
i have 2011 nissan leaf with degraded battery 24KWH , there is no help around Sacramento California to check if the whole battery is bad or maybe just few cells .
I'm not mechanic nor electrician but slowelly i'm thinking to dive in to project .
Take the battery pack out , take apart , test each cell and find out .
Question come out : where i can purchase those individual modules ?
In this particular case that we showed in the video, the cell in question was pretty much totally failed, and had gotten the car to a point where it was essentially undrivable, so I would not typically consider this to be a viable repair to address degradation.
For a situation like yours, where the main issue is just degradation, the cells are likely degraded fairly evenly. Sometimes the cells at the back of the pack degrade a bit faster than the rest, (as that's where the modules are grouped together and the most heat builds up), but likely not enough to make a huge difference.
The easiest way to see if you do have any weak cells would be to look at your cell voltage data using LEAFspy. If the cells tend to stay within a 20-30mv difference throughout the charge/discharge curve, then you probably don't have any cells that are "appreciably" weaker than the rest.
Unless you have an edge case like the one in this video, I'd say by swapping out modules, you'd probably only be able to see a single digit percentage improvement in capacity, so your cost vs. benefit is not going to be very good as far as that sort of procedure goes... You'd probably be much better off simply finding a used pack that is less degraded (though that can also be easier said than done).
Good luck my dear and you have to show clear voltage for multimeter..
Nice informative video! Thanks! I am crossing my fingers that a 3rd party pack replacement comes out (Like the EVs Enhanced liquid cooled battery) for us OG Leaf owners. I'd love to keep this car on the road instead of getting scrapped. (Sadly I don't live anywhere near Vista, I'm in NorCal)
We are actually currently working with a vendor who may be able to supply us with aftermarket batteries. We are waiting on some initial samples, and hope to have more info in a few months...
@@QCCHARGE Awesome! I look forward to some news! :)
What's a 6 bar 2012 Leaf realistically worth? I paid under $2500 for low mileage 8 bar car to flip, and getting nervous seeing a bunch of similar cars on Facebook for $3000-$4000 not selling after months online.
informative. thanks for sharing. it is sad it takes a good number hours in labor to get it back to a working condition. which I would imagine surpass the value of the car. good for DIYing or learning project otherwise many of these will end up in junkyard.
There was quite a bit of labor (about 10-12 hours), but that's really the majority of the cost involved. The battery module itself is only worth ~$100 at most, so the total cost (depending on labor costs wherever you're at) should be between $1500-2000.
In today's market, these LEAFs have a pretty strong value, even with a degraded battery. This one is rougher shape than most (severely peeling clear coat), but around Southern California, I'd say it's still worth about $4-5k (though just 2 years ago, it probably would've only been worth half that).
No they won't. They'd get new battery or refurbished battery and keep on going. People do 24/40 kWh swaps and 24/60kWh swaps on them everywhere around the world. To get yourself a car like that one and pay for 24kWh dead battery - to 60kWh good battery swap is still around 30% cheaper than just getting similar range/size BEV on the market. There's even a New Zealand company homologating it's aftermarket 40kWh battery based on LFP cells and with cooling system all squized into original Leaf 24kWh battery cover. So what you're saying is similar to "well my timing belt failed and ruined an engine on my 10 years old $10 000 car - I'm gonna scrap the whole thing!" kind of approach in ICE world.
@@SuperAti15 I agree that battery swaps are popular but any 40 or 60kwh battery will have come from a used car so its own capacity will be less than the headline figure - I would be a lot happier if I could point Leafspy at the replacement battery before purchase.
Very well made video and professional HV battery repair! Keep it up guys!
Awesome video! Thanks. What is the criterion for choosing a replacement module? Looks like your criterion is that the module's SoH (remaining capacity as a percentage of the original capacity) should match that car's SoH closely enough?
Yes, we want the SoH to be as close as possible (within a few percentage points) to make sure the BMS will be able to keep up with balancing for the foreseeable future.
If the module is not close enough in terms of capacity, the cell voltages can drift apart over time and cause issues down the road. Whether it could last a week, a month, a year, etc. would depend on how big of a difference there is in capacity, as well as how much the car is driven, and how far the battery gets discharged on a regular basis.
What charger are you using to charge the cells
Ok, now how do I get my 2013 LEAF out to you, so we can get my battery back to balanced?
Is there a guide to the LEAF_BC_SCAN app?!
Cuantas barras tenia antes de iniciar el trabajo?
Electric cars don't start they just turn on
Hi where is your shop?
We are located in Vista California, USA
I have 50,000 miles at about 5 years on my 2017 e-Golf. I see max delta of about 10 mV mV- 13 mV across the 88 “cells” (three cells in parallel) in e-Golf pack. It seems to me Samsung SDI cells are pretty well made. I know 24 kWh cars had Panasonic cells, which I’m guessing are also pretty reliable. Have you had any e-Golfs in your shop for HV battery issues?
We haven't had any e-Golfs in the shop! Though, it's worth noting, the vast majority of them are still under the 8 year, 100k mi battery warranty.
This year, the first ones would have started coming off warranty (apart from the ones over the mileage limit), so I guess we'll see if any of them start popping up anytime soon...
@@QCCHARGE good point. Thank you.
Where are you located at?
Hi great video. I wanted to ask there are over seas battery's being made with catl modules .they are 17000 but can someone change all modules and rewire battery to get more milage and a 100% of battery life
It is possible to swap in a larger battery out of a newer LEAF (in fact we have a video about doing just that). Unfortunately those batteries are VERY difficult to get ahold of...
It's likely "possible" to swap modules out of some other battery with enough time and money, but for one off projects, it's not really financially feasible unless you have a lot of technical knowledge, fabrication experience, and can complete the work yourself...
I think I know of the battery you are talking about, and hopefully those will make it to the U.S. and the costs will be reasonable at scale.
@@QCCHARGE I hope so too.ive found a company that makes them but over seas and the pictures look good and about 400 miles of range so I hope the battery's do arrrive
How's the Leaf battery upgrade business going? With all the new EV's coming out, I'm curious if there's still a lot of people trying to upgrade their older Leafs.
We get calls and emails pretty much every day, but the biggest problem is actually finding batteries to do upgrades with... We are working on a potential new battery solution and hope to have updates on that later this year.
Are you working with EV's Enhanced in New Zealand? They appear to have a promising new solution, a third-party Leaf battery with integrated liquid cooling.
We have been in contact with them about it, and it does seem like a very promising option. However, it sounds like their battery will most likely not be available outside of New Zealand for at least a year (maybe more).
wow all of that for 30 miles ahhaahahhah
All that for the car to be usable…
30 extra miles for the life of the battery. That's saving 60-80.00 a month on gas.