Volusia county drone & helicopter incident changes nothing
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Story here www.wesh.com/article/drone-he...
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Full story here: www.wesh.com/article/drone-helicopter-damage-volusia-county/46256959
I see they say the helicopter made it back to the airport. That implies it wasn't at the airport when the crash happened. So it shouldn't of been so low. It would be nice if someone had a google map view of exactly where the crash happened so we could see who was at fault. Find my drone should pinpoint the drones last location.
The fact that they came up with the idea of implementing remote-ID for drones, while not having something similar for the helicopters, puzzles me.. Helicopters could broadcast their coordinates and altitude, drone operators would be able to see the helicopter and their fly path/altitude in the app (and vice versa), making it way easier to take the proper actions for avoiding each other, problem solved!
Will say the last time I flew along the beach in Fla I got buzzed by a tour helicopter when I was flying below 200ft.
Almost put my Mini in the water to get out of its way. But the event reminded me why it's critical to keep eyes on your drone at all times and to use a spotter if you need look at the remot to line up a shot for photos/video.
I was filming on the Delaware River in Philly one Saturday at 100 feet. I noticed below me the water was stirring pretty good then I noticed a Helo underneath me. I had seen it nearby and thought 100 feet I'd be good. This thing went under 100 feet..I raced back and got out of there...
Thanks once again Ken for the info cause some of us never hear about this love how you keep us informed happy new year brotha
I live on the US/Canada border. I often fly along the border which in this area is the St Lawrence river. Yesterday, I was driving to town and looked out over the river where I fly and saw a Cessna 172 at 60 feet over the water about 200 feet off shore. It was heading away from the closest aerodrome about 3 miles away. Sometimes, some people do things.
100%. i lived in San Diego for 20 years and planes would buzz us suring and would be no more than 20-40 feet above us. i'm not a pilot but that seems excessively low for someone not dropping cocaine on my head.
And I'd bet that pilot would blame a UAS pilot for ANY incident.
My local area is close to glasgow Airport scotland, and on a few occasions, helicopters have entered my area of flying. Luckily, they can be heard well in advance, and i simply drop altitude they fly different routes compared to the many planes landing and taking off we need to always be aware of our surrounding airspace and agree 100 percent on some people being too interested in whats happening across the pond and blowing storys up keep up the great content bud👍
Thanks for video😊
Happy new year and thank you for all you do for our hobby
Well said Ken..well said. I for one fly in Choppa infested air all the time. You never know when one might come around the corner. Some say stay low..at 50 ft I can't really fly much lower. I fly every day...literally. I offer bear surveillance during he summer days to local parents/schools. Living on a mountain bears like to wake up the same time kids go to school. Unfortunately the mountain I live on is Cheyenne mountain. With two flight lines on either side of my property as well as a Military post below, airspace gets kinda hairy. I fly early before revile just for this reason. Yet you never know when a choppa will appear. Being in los on all my jobs I just drop as low as I can...as fast as I can. Happy flying!!
When flying in close proximity to airports, especially smaller airports, I also like to use LiveATC to monitor the tower frequency for traffic from my phone. I even note that I will be doing so if requesting an altitude waiver. You can also look at the runway numbers on a map to know which ones are of concern at your location.
Welcome to 2024 … use em or lose em … brain cells.
Great thoughts Ken. Trouble is as it always is … some people just don’t think.
some details - It's not a "prop", it's a rotor blade and on R44 it costs 10K ... around airports he/she should have had a spotter and flying high he/she should have issued NOTAM
A drone pilot issuing a NOTAM? LOL at portraying yourself as some sort of expert in one sentence, then showing you have zero knowledge in the second.
@@TomInGulfBreeze when you file a LAANC it becomes a NOTAMS for the local airport
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these drone incidents. The one in Florida was unfortunate for both parties involved. I see a lot of helicopters at the beach in NJ, and as soon as hear them, which usually happens before I see them. I lower my drone to under 50 and than try to determine the Heli's flight path. Great video, thanks for sharing.
The plural of aircraft is aircraft, not aircrafts. Thanks for the video.
When working near a airport, getting a releases, etc, why would you not have a VO. Today the VSO has stated they are looking at felony charges at on the drone pilot.
If I here anything in the air when I am flying I just bring the drone down and go back up when it is gone..
Something important that should be mentioned regarding the burden of yielding the right of way is that helicopters are big, loud, and conspicuous. Drones are none of those things. As a fellow daily 107 operator, whenever I hear an aircraft, no matter what type, I immediately have eyes and ears on what it is, the bearing and the altitude. Sometimes, that means I decrease altitude and let the manned aircraft pass. I can almost guarantee the drone operator in this instance heard or saw the helicopter before the collision...they're not exactly stealth...and also guarantee the helicopter pilot could neither hear nor see the drone prior to the point of no return.
Exactly we have to give way and be vigilant
Thanks for your take on this. Here in the UK the CAA are also incredibly slow to react and indeed to evolve. Simply they cannot keep up with UAV legislation. Ref the “blink of an eye”, I get you have to regularly check your screen but operating UAVs here in the UK VLOS is hammered home on every drone qualification from basic operation of UAVS continually up to a GVC (General Visual line of sight Certificate). If that pilot in Volusia was using VLOS, surely they would have seen the helicopter?? Generally manned aircraft will not go below 500ft but we are warned Police, Ambulance and SAR will regularly fly lower. Again thanks for the vid and the channel.
In the fb pages and drone forums, this event has shown how little the majority of drone pilots know about aviation.. which is sad.
Facebook is a cesspool
I do think that the rules surrounding homebuilt UAS (especially for 107) are confusing and need to be fixed especially relating to Remote ID.
I get that the rules require 107 pilots to register a homebuilt drone along with a separate RID module but with the direction the technology is progressing I should be able to easily register my own built in "standard" RID serial number with the FAA when I register the drone. I realize that this means that I, the "manufacturer" have the ability to change and update the SN that is broadcast as part of that but I also have an incentive to ensure that it matches to the registration since I can get in trouble if it doesn't match to my registration.
Whereas how it is setup in the current process I have to pay an additional fee every three years to maintain a homebuilt UAS to ensure that I keep the correct RID module with the correct homebuilt drone.
With the new drones if all GA had ADSB and all the new drones had then any GA would show up on the APP
Note: I have heard from an informed source that:
1) The helicopter was ascending on departure from the adjacent airport.
2) The drone pilot did have an active COA
That said, I assume that even if the drone pilot had a COA, I assume that would not exempt him from the requirement to "see and avoid". Also, I can't see how he could have been unaware of the adjacent airport and the associated risk.
Only of those things where a link in a chain of safety wasn’t followed
I "heard" the drone was above his COA height and the helicopter was moving at a pretty good clip departing the airport, I wonder if the drone pilot will be found at fault..
Every once in a while I hear stuff like, you have to be so far from the nearest airport etc. No, not really, not specifically. You just have to be aware of and obey any flight restrictions where you fly, regardless of whether it's due to an airport or any other reason, permanent or a TFR. Not trying to be pedantic, but apps like b4ufly air aloft, etc do an excellent job telling you what you need to know. This actually covers a lot more than just the nearby airport. As a drone pilot, I really could care less what kind of air space I am in, only do I need LAANC and what is my max altitude.
@@OriginaldoBo I agree, I work in an industry where safety is critical so I have to do regular risk analysis. I am always so surprised about how informal/cavalier many government agencies can be regarding safety. I suspect some of that comes from them being political by nature and maybe also because they can't be sued. Ex: If a COA was in place, how does the FAA assure that all pilots were notified of the additional risk (in a verifiable way). Also, If human risk is involved, a double fault would normally be required.
@@OriginaldoBo That spot is next to I95. Not a chance the drone pilot heard anything but cars until that helo was on top of him. Pretty good chance he wouldn't have seen him as the Highway overpass is right there blocking the view to the airport from the Flea market. What good is Remote ID and LAANC if that information never makes it helicopter pilot. Given its less than 1/2 mile from the airport why didn't ATC notifiy the helo there was a drop up in the area? It was a pure accident but raises questions why the systems in place didn't help reduce the risk. Helo's need to be required to have ADS-B. They can fly so low that sight and sound and the drone pilot's ability to react are damn near impossible. It's an interesting study in how the systems failed to commmunicate.
So at 8:00 we're supposed to talk about it; at 10:00 we're NOT supposed to talk about it, or well maybe only those that have sat down and made a 2 AD roll length rant themselves are able to talk about it... so confusing... so sad... so.... what? sow seeds see what grows...
We're not sensationalizing it Lambo... its facts that its happened a few times and that those that thing this event tailors the hobbies outcomes are mislead. Where the fuck did I say we shouldnt talk about it? Ive always talked topics in a non sensational way.
Dono and other Americans are the only ones who should have any speaking authority - and anyone else is immediately disqualified. But! It's all good faith! It's not just for the money or views. Don't complain about mid rolls, they are necessary you know. It takes A LOT of production cost to sit behind a desk and do these talks for the drone community, be more grateful for Dono's content sir. Maybe it's time for Ken to quit drones, and do more robot vacuum cleaner reviews, and 3D printers pumps. Remember when he lost that iFlight drone last year, and it had a GPS? Pepperidge farm remembers.
@@ripit_fpv143👍🏼
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I have like 4 different cameras I use
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This was super informative, thanks. I honestly had to look this up and I am shocked to discover that there is no minimum flight altitude requirement for helicopters operating in US airspace. In Canada the minimum flight altitude for all aircraft is 1000 feet (other than UAVs obviously). The ONLY exceptions are for take off/landing, police/fire/EMS operations, or for helicopters carrying an external load. On a related note I would absolutely lose my god damn mind if a helicopter tour company was regularly flying 60 feet over my house just to give people a nice view.
I agree. Perspective. Many daily and deadly auto collisions have damages more than $60k and are a pervasive problem. So drone critics sensationalizing a rare drone incident would do better to direct their efforts to at least safely operating their own vehicle with the vigilance they demand of drone operators. For starters - ask themselves when was the last time they checked their tire pressures.
I’ve seen several times here in the LA area where helicopters are buzzing the beaches at definitely lower than 100 ft AGL.
I used to kiteboard at Belmont shores in Long Beach where it’s known to be a kiteboarding area and helicopters would buzz the beaches there at altitudes less than 100 ft AGL. Kiteboarders there would be using 75 ft lines on their kites and always worried about a helicopter getting tangled up with a kite.
More attention should be given to helicopter pilots buzzing low to the ground because they seem to think it’s fun and ‘cool’. They really have no reason to be flying less than 500 ft AGL most of the time.
I also live in LB. I fly off of Ocean near the bluffs and man those police helicopters seem to come from nowhere and buzz the beach around 200ft. It's getting to the point where I am almost afraid to fly. I actually know a guy who is a police helicopter pilot. I asked about it and he said they get a notice when you use LAANC but they are not supposed to fly that low unless they are actively engaged in a call. I can tell you, when I check flightradar24 it's a common route they take, they are not chasing anyone. They like buzzing the cliffs just because they can.
I heard he had a waiver and there was a pilot alert to watch out for a drone below 200 ft in that area. Also that he was within the area he was supposed to be in and below the altitude he was approved for. I guess that should be verifiable information but I don't know where to look for it.
Have to wait for the official report, likely admitting stating he lost VLOS not going to help.
@@OriginaldoBo What was the drone pilot's name? Could search the FAA 107 Waivers Issued online maybe.
@@OriginaldoBo no it's not. I did find the NOTAM #05/056 !DAB 05/056 DAB AIRSPACE UAS WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 0.25NM RADIUS OF 291007N0810354W (.48NM SSW DAB) SFC-200FT AGL DLY SR-SS 2305201030-2312312237
I'd like to know what the waiver says. They are all different.
Very Well covered here! Lots have taken this entire story WAY out of context....this situation was a bit of a freak accident, on both pilots. Nobody was hurt, shit happens, move on! Some people and the way they are blowing this up, is actually comical to see
Aren't helicopters required to fly over 500ft (FAA Title 14 Section-91.119)?
Don't believe so
yes, they are. But in this instance it within 4km from airport and the helicopter was landing
I live in volusia county in deltona florida
@OriginaldoBo , agreed... and it will be interesting to see the final report on this. I think we should be more concerned about the crooked SecretLab Magnetic Memory Foam Head Pillow than an FAA kneejerk reaction. :)
Let’s gooooooooo
I think that it is inevitable that helicopter flights will end up with a minimum transit height requirement in populated areas, as the efficacy of drones for commerce (which this drone flight was) and public safety are undeniable.
This should be the case anyways imho. Fixed wing aircraft have to be 1000 feet AGL or tallest structure. There seems to be no minimum for helicopters as far as I can tell. My street in suburbia is at 400'. I regularly have helicopters passing over my house at 800 to 900 barometric (based on ADS-B). That's under 400 feet over my roof in some cases. I can legally have my done that high. Don't like them that low over my roof anyways. Especially the very loud Huey King County Washington Sheriff Helicopters. No they are not responding to an emergency. It's the same flight every time, presumably training, and I just happen to live under the path to and from the training area.
You brought up insurance. Maybe a video about how you handle your insurance needs would be a good one.Personally I have been considering Thimble because it's 'per job' but I did not do a deep dive as to what 'real' coverage I get. I think in 2024...it's time.
For aerial I use Skywatch for liability I use Hitchcox however they do not cover aerial
@@OriginaldoBosame here .. SkyWatch on an annual policy
From what I've read, been able to verify myself and been told by some who are "in the know" on the situation. There was a construction site located south west approximately a half mile from the threshold of runway 07L.
The site is located in a LAANC 50' altitude block. The Pilot had a CoA for operating at 200' foot in this area. There was a NOTAM in place and I was able to verify this in Foreflight, this NOTAM stated that UAS operation was taking place in this area at an altitude of 200' and expired on Dec 31.
Since this is a controlled airport, it would be interesting to see how the R44 Pilot was cleared in to land, was it via the 07L approach, or direct in to landing. You would think the controller would keep aircraft clear of an area that the drone was operating in, specifically since the Pilot called into the tower and notified them of his presence.
What I think is everyone may share a bit of the blame with this, The drone Pilot, for not maintaining situational awareness, the R44 Pilot for not maintaining situational awareness in that he flew directly through a NOTAM that was easily avoidable. The controller, if they didn't direct the pilot to avoid the NOTAM area after they were made aware of the drones operation.
That being said, if the controller instructed the R44 to avoid that area, for example if they cleared the helicopter in via the runway 07L approach, and the pilot flew a direct approach that could be pilot deviation, thus the accident may fall more on the R44 shoulders.
One thing is for sure, these camera drones don't have the performance of FPV's and can only move horizontally and vertically so fast. If the helicopter was traveling at 100 Knots, at an altitude of 180' by the time, you could hear the R44, locate it through the buildings and trees. That mind you aren't very tall but the helicopter is very close to the ground, you would have very little time to make a decision and begin to take evasive action.
We should be thankful that no one was hurt, and it will be interesting to see the facts once they come out.
I think this instance was just pure accident. A series of perfectly timed events that lead to this. That’s why I say the FAA looks at the percentage of events like this occurring
@@OriginaldoBo pure accidents do happen. For some people to crucifix the drone pilot for not yielding to manned air traffic is ridiculous. They weren't there, they didn't experience the situation, the ambient noise from construction, a 6 lane highway, the airport I'm sure all factored in.
I can see how this happened, R44 may of forgot about the NOTAM, or wasn't made aware by the tower, (Curious if there's any archived comm's on Live ATC).It would be hard to see the drone during the day even if you knew it was there.
On the drone pilots side, the ambient noise, visual obstructions, a low and fast helicopter. It was the perfect series of events for something like this to happen
@@OriginaldoBo Something else I find interesting, after a little internet detective work. Leading Edge Helicopters, The operator of the flight in question. Is based 1,500 feet to the south of the construction site.
What's interesting is the helipad doesn't exist in b4ufly, air control.
The FAA does require notification for "any permanent landing area; public versus private use does not matter"
Im led to believe that the FAA isn't aware of this location as its not displayed on B4UFLY.
I concur the drone pilot shouldn't be crucified. Its just how it goes 9-10 times they side with the manned aircraft. From the sound of it the drone operator did everything by the book. Being that close to an airport they likely heard the copter departing a few times so no reason for alarm at that moment. If in fact the B4UFLY doesnt display it thats a fail on the FAAs part
I understand it is the UAS PIC duty to yield to manned aircraft...I also did some investigating as well and found the same information you did. I feel that if the NOTAM was for this UAS mission and the helicopter pilot flew at 201 AGL, we would not be talking about this. I also am glad nobody got hurt and will be very interested in the FAA final report.
Helicopters are a pain her in San Diego, I could be flying at a beach where I have no restrictions on altitude and these helicopters come cruising so low over the water and beach. They shouldn’t have a floor of 400 feet if our ceiling is 400.
they have limitations on altitude. 500 feet
An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
@@SimPitTech Well at least you got that one right.
You made some great Points and I agree 💯 with you. However, the FAA will give manned aircraft the benefit of the doubt in almost every instance when something like this happens. I don’t think the FAA wants to deal with us( Drones in general) but they have no choice it seems like we were dropped in their lap due to innovation. So in the future I can see more regulations for us and nothing done to manned aircraft. They are the money makers not us for now but that can change in the future as the technology evolves.
I wonder if the drone pilot had insurance? I know that State Farm will insure your drone but does it also cover liability?
Why didn't the pilot of the drone hear that helicopter coming and either land or fly down to 50' ?
I dont think state farm offers anything for drones. This would be a SkyWatch or a on demand policy
I have mine insured with State Farm. I was flying it in an abounded parking lot to run down the battery when I hit a small power line. It messed the Mavic 2 up really bad. I picked up the pieces and my next stop was the State Farm office. The lady started a claim on it. I sent it back to Fort Worth at DJI service center. They kept me notified of the repairs. I received an e-mail of it coming back to me. The cost was $235. State farm paid for it. DJI sent me a brand new DJI Mavic 2 Zoom drone.
I guess they sent it off to a refurb facility and sold it on e-may or some other outlet. I am happy with State Farm.@@OriginaldoBo
curious what the letter of the law is on that. If he got the appropriate clearance to operate above 50' and he was also that close to an airport, why should he have to drop down to 50 just because he heard an aircraft? That would be expected right? If he kept doing that, he might never get his flight in. The purpose of the clearance is so that he could operate above 50 feet.
I have State Farm Drone insurance for over 2 years. I have used it once and they paid right off.
I believe I pay $70 per year.@@OriginaldoBo
What about the damage to the drone? Why don't you talk about that? I don't see any further information on this crash in your posting.
drone was destroyed that should be common sense
But the Mavic 2 Pro is OK right?
Swift recovery ❤️🩹
The regulations and the interpretation of them clearly say the that UAS (drone) pilot is responsible (always) to give way to manned aircraft; that is just part of being a drone pilot. Although spotters are required for FPV flights, they may well be required for all (except those having a waiver) UAS (drone) flights. A spotter would likely have seen the helicopter in time to prevent the collision. Ditch the drone; they drop fast. Although the current broadcast Remote ID would likely not have helped, in the future, network Remote ID would allow the drone's location to be included in better air traffic management systems. Yes, the FAA regulations which are actually mandated by congress through LAW are slow to change. That said, congress can still pass additional LAWs for UAS (drone) regulation. Tomorrow, likely not. In the future, well, maybe. What if there were 10 million or more drones flying around by irresponsible pilots who may, or may not, even know the regulations. It will likely not be the delivery drones that cause the problem, but rather people who simply buy a drone and fly.
Helicopters fly low. I'm scared of them. I avoid areas I see them fly in.
“Stop sensationalizing”
Period.
Thats right b stay in yuh boolclad clat zone blessup!!
Yet another reason to ban all heavy drones, like the Mavic! Yes, some helicopters fly very low, but If this was a mini drone, nothing would have happened to the helicopter! There is no reason to fly this heavy drones, which are so dangerous! The Mini 3 has a much better camera than the Mavic, anyway! The FAA should ban all heavy drones, but allow small mini drones to fly almost anywhere, day or night, including National Parks!
Your mini 3 has better than a Hasselblad 4/3?
Go home you flat earth nut job
Of course! It's not just the sensor size, it's the pixel size and the aperture that's very important, and together with the pixel binning for very low noise at night, the Hasselblad has no chance!
Why so angry? Because I said that heavy and dangerous drones should be banned, and your job as a DJI shill is to sell DJI drones? 😀
I completely agree. Over Christmas, there was a 'professional' drone pilot who flew his 5" over crowds in London which is a NFZ. Same response from some of the community when he was called out on it "you're drawing attention to it and will do more harm" This mindset is ridiculous, blame the dude who made the wrong decision not those who react to it and ultimately may be affected by it. Unfortunately there's always going to be those who will do anything for likes, completely selfish and I'm glad to see that the community tries to self regulate.
I've probably said it a dozen times in the comments but as always thanks for bringing clarity and a no BS non sensationalized approach to an accident that, well, appears to be an accident. My first thought about this was autonomous drones too and couldn't agree more that we need a system where it's not just one sided. I had a similar situation at Lake Louisa FL when flying over the water and a helicopter came from where i had woods at my back in seconds, had my drone been up then could have easily been a collison. The copter was no more than 75' up, in fact I took a photo with my cell phone and I could see someone's face in the open door and see them smiling. Unless we're going to only fly from tops of mountains or roofs with 360 degree views for miles this is a real issue.