A Record Machine SHOOTOUT!
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- Опубліковано 30 кві 2024
- I tested 3 machines in a decibel shoot-out. Which one won?
Record Doctor X: amzn.to/4bdZXso
Record Doctor VI: amzn.to/4bjZlld
Pro-Ject VC-E2: amzn.to/3xYNqL6
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The Project VCE2 has 2 advantages, one is the magnetic clamp, two is the supporting platter only covers the label and does not contaminate the underside whilst turning the vinyl disc!
I will say the magnetic lamp is a great feature, Marc.
Loving the RDX! Cleaned about 150 records last weekend, and it was a (loud, but effective) breeze. Grateful to you for that last review, and I’m kicking myself for not having bought one of these sooner.
Really glad to hear that, Christopher!
I have a Project VC-E, and yes, it is kind of loud. I changed the vacuum pickup adhesive cleaning strips to the ones VPI uses,which are thicker and wider than what Project supplies. Huge improvement in cleaning, with little or no moisture residue.
That's really interesting Robert. I never considered it could be the strips that make the difference.
I am happy with my Nessie Vinylcleaner. A major reason why I have this one is the extremely low noise emission.
The Nessie is a very cool machine.
I have the 6 and have no intention of replacing it till I have to.
I don't mind if it takes me 30 minutes to clean five records. It's one of things that makes me love vinyl. What do I do when I want to play a record? Turn on my eq, turn on my TT, turn on my amplifier, set the stylus down. If need be, adjust the eq. It's a ritual that I thoroughly enjoy.
That's what it's all about, Stanley. Enjoyment! 🍺
After a year, the project sounds like a 747 😂😂😂Buy a Humminguru.
More like the Wright Brother's plane 🍺
Hmm, I might have to test my Nitty Gritty machine I have. It's rather loud and sounds like an old vacuum cleaner, but it works for me.
Nitty Gritty is. great machine too
I know this is a little off topic but your tip about using a wooden toothpick for fixing pops on vinyl was fantastic!
Glad it helped, Jake!
Thanks for doing that comparison. The loud sound is also something I don't like about my record cleaners. In my woodshed I got a quiet air compressor (60 dB) to replace a louder (90 dB) unit, and my dust extractor is also MUCH quieter than a shop vac. However, 1-2 dB are not much of a difference, so not worth replacing my current Project with another vacuum unit. I've been eyeing an ultrasonic unit, but not sure how insane to go. In August, I'll be in LA, and may head over to Upscale Audio to check some out. Maybe also some phono preamps ...
If you do go the way of an ultrasonic let me know. I've been eyeing them as well.
Well 👍 done. My sequence differs when cleaning my albums but additionally I use a 3M pair of ear protection headphones too. Same as with mowing the lawn or chainsaw to protect my dainty eardrums 😊
That's really something I should invest in
Hi Rick, I have been looking at both for several months. Just ordered the VC-E2 from Amazon for evaluation. Concerned with the RDX being mdf and vinyl and cleaning 2 sides at once. Love watching your channel.
Hi Ron! Great to hear - let me know what you think after you've had a chance to use it. Cheers!!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Rick, in your opinion which one cleans better, Pro-ject VC-E2 or RDX. Does the Pro-ject line up horizontally with album accurately and does it leave residue? Hearing bad reviews now that I ordered it.
Are you concerned with the RDX MDF/Vinyl construction?
Second thoughts about ordering Pro-ject as I have been having supply chain issues with them on other products. Also, cannot currently source velvet strips for VC-E2. It's a changing world.
@@RonGrift Hey Ron!
I've used the RD VI, the VC-E2, and now the RDX extensively. In my humble opinion the Record Doctor machines (both) do a better job. Before the RDX I would use the RD VI to clean the residue left from the VC-E2 before putting it in its anti-static sleeve. I continued to use the VC-E2 because of the motor feature but was frustrated that I still went back to the RD VI as a final step. That frustration has been eliminated with the RDX.
I don't have any concerns with the construction only because it's the same (except in size) as the RD VI which I have had for years now. I've literally cleaned over 1500 records with it. Man, I wish the RD X had been created sooner 😂😂😂😂. So many hours spent doing that.
I hadn't had to think about replacing the strips on the VC-E2 only because the RDX came along shortly after I'd purchased it. I did change the RD VI strips many times over the years. Hopefully the supply chain for those doesn't dry up anytime soon.
I hope this helps.
I have the older model project cleaner - I have to put my weed-whacker muffs to use it - it is SO LOUD that I dread the cleaning sessions 😞
Someone else mentioned using ear protection. I've taken to using cotton balls.
I have the VPI 16.5 machine. The only thing loud is vacuum motor. Doesn’t bother me at all. One of the best investments I’ve made.
VPI does make a great machine
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I agree. It has made me re-listen to my collection again.
Yep I'm one of those that switched based on your recent review. I was lucky as my ProJect EC 2 was still in the return window. I truly believe the vacuum was going out on the EC 2 as it got gradually louder. Comparably, RDX is reasonably quieter and of course way more efficient cleaning my platters. Always rock my Bose earsbuds during this process which helps big time. Thanks for thinking of doing this Rick; interesting results!
After quite a few cleanings I'm very pleased with the RDX. I've been using cotton balls in my ears 😂😂
I have a Project VC-E possibly a mk1? on loan from my friend, and it's LOUD!
Jim🏴🙂
Yep! They are all a bit loud but a necessary step in audio enjoyment 🍺🍺🍺
Plan on getting a RCM for the coming xmas and birthday. Since I am one of the fortunate ones where they fall close together.
Hope Santa is good to you!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I am being a good boy... lol
Record Dr X is on my wish list
Well done
Thanks Wayne!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords BTW, I use a similar record cleaning method to yours, but instead of using a spin clean for the distilled water rinse, I use a 12" lazy Susan, spray on distilled water from a Walmart aerosolizer (most people use them for coating pans with oil), then use a dedicated record brush to spread the distilled water on and into the grooves, then vacuum the record off. That way each record side gets its own virgin distilled water. Now that you have the record doctor X, this probably won't work for you because you get to clean two sides at once. The lazy Susan however is great for cleaning extra dirty records from garage sales. For this I use a painters edging brush which fits the record playing surface perfectly.
Your accent sounds quite Bostonian, but I can't define it any closer. I grew up in Peabody and Lynnfield Ma.
I really do enjoy your channel!
@@waynesharaf6369 Thanks, Wayne! And good ears in the accent - lived in Hanson, Mass (a stone's throw from Brockton)
My Okki Nokki mk1 leaked and destroyed 2 Smiths records and a Box Tops record. Never store a VRCM on your record shelf.
That really breaks my heart. I’m really sorry to hear that. I hope others see your advice to avoid that.
Hi Rick, all of these vacuum cleaners are just “noisy” I have the Project S2 which is a full size machine with an aluminium body. I run it on vacuum for two circuits in each direction and have no residue issues. Based on your tests, the results are pretty much equal with only a 2% variation between the best and the worst. I doubt the human ear can tell between a 1 decibel variation. The Record Dr has the significant advantage of drying both sides at the same time. Once you have cleaned your collection then noise becomes less of an issue if you are only worried about new additions. As you say, 5 records a week is only a few minutes of noisy vacuum and then perhaps price per clean is more relevant?
Interesting topic, I am not sure there are any clear winners in the vacuum field.
Best, Pat
Exactly, Pat! They are noisy with little difference that the human ear can only barely detect. It really comes down to performance.
I guess the upshot of this is that there isn't a whole lot of difference between them in terms of sound, and record cleaners with vacuums are just loud. I use an ultrasonic cleaner, and it's pretty loud too. Just one of the things that go along with records. Gotta take the bitter with the sweet, as they say...
Lol - yep - it definitely is "bitter sweet" 🍺
What your process from start to finish for cleaning records
Hey Steve - I run the record through a thorough clean on the RDX then I put it into the Spin-Clean with distilled to rinse any detergent off that may be left. Then back on the RDX to vacuum off the water.
Rick, let's hear all three of them running at the same time!
;-)
Kidding aside, do any of them require more rotations than the others?
For example, my VPI 16.5 machine will dry a side in one rotation (but I still give it two rotations). Do all three of those machines get the record dry in a single rotation?
Also, do the platters spin at (or close to) the same speed? I am asking, because if one machine turns at ½ the speed as a different machine, then the former will take twice as long to dry a side.
They all sounded like they had a different pitch, which would make one sound be more penetrating than a different one.
My VPI 16.5 machine is probably equally as loud at your test units. But the noise does not bother me, due to its frequency or pitch. It is loud, but not irritating. If a machine's vacuum irritated my ears, then I would not buy it (or I would return it after hearing it).
The Pro-Ject definitely requires more rotations, and even then I used to do a final one with the RDVI manually which sort of defeated the purpose of buying the Pro-Ject. The RDX platter spins slower than the Pro-Ject. But the fact that it cleans thoroughly puts it over the faster spinning Pro-Ject for me.
I own both the pro-ject and record dr x and if they get together and have a baby, we would have the perfect vacuum cleaner. Combine the speed of project, magnetic clamp with the suction of record doctor x. How accurate are the decibal meter apps? The decibal meter in my ears says that record doctor is the loudest thing I’ve ever heard and it makes it torture to use as not only is it so loud, but spins so slow which makes 10 seconds feel like 10 hours. But it definitely dries much much better than pro-Ject and i love that it dries both sides at once. Even after a few spins, my project still leaves the record a little wet and doesn’t reach all the way to the label.
I don't recall if I mentioned that in the RDX video but yes - I have noticed the Pro-Ject doesn't reach all the way to the label. The sad part is - before getting the RDX, I had to do a manual final vacuum with the RD VI for the left over residue from the Pro-Ject cleaning.
In my opinion after hearing all three, I think the RD X had the most pleasing sound of the three. I thought the highs were a bit fatiguing on the RD VI and the Project seemed a little too heavy in the midrange. The RD X was much more full bodied with the highs slightly rolled off and a solid punchy bass. I will add that I also compared all three with my Dyson rechargeable floor vacuum and found that it did a much better job at removing cat hair from my carpet. Lol!!!! I'm sorry I just couldn't resist. Great video Rick! I'm going to wind up with one of these sometime in the future.
😂😂😂. This was great Neil! Complete missed opportunity on my part! That's how I should have approached this shootout 😂😂😂
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
At first I thought you might go down that road when I started watching. That's why I couldn't help myself. Sometimes laughter is the best medicine! Glad you got a kick out of my comment. You're the best!
Do the quieter machines have less suction than the louder machines? I couldn't picture a a real quiet Hoover. About right might be a machine that is loudjust loud enough to blot out your apartment neighbor slamming his door that it's too loud. loud.
With an old machine years ago, I turned a Nautilus Harvest by Neil Young lp from VG play graded to Near Mint play graded.
Good question. They are really all about equal when it comes to loudness. I only did it because of the many questions I got after the last video about how the sound compared. I really do find the Record Doctor machines provide more suction. Both the RD VI and RD X. Could be the Pro-Ject I have is defective.
How are you thoughts on ultrasonic cleaners. Have you heard anything about the Vevo ultrasonic cleaner?
I've heard of Vevor and may have even been on their website once. I've never had a chance to try out an ultrasonic cleaner. I know they are supposed to be excellent although some do a way better job than others from various tests I've seen.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords yeah, I heard the same. I got time to do my research. For the money the RDX. Looks like a great deal
I have a Vevor, sold under the name of happybuy, around $200, I think it cleans great, but to be honest nothing to compare it too. It might be a little more labor intensive than the spin doctor. I use distilled water a little alcohol and a surfactant. Then a spray bottle of distilled water, for rinsing, might get a Spin clean for the rinsing part.
@@gregcarson3444 I have seen them. I was curious about them. So you have had good results? I just use liquinox and a distilled water rinse. With microfiber towels. So straight grit. Which gets to be a headache if the used albums build up. The wife is starting to realize because she likes to look for living stereo shady dogs, and I have to clean them suckers for a good 15 minutes sometimes. And then find out I may need to do it again. Soooooo glad she sees my pain I endure to keep her happy. Lol. I see a RCM in my near future
Do you or someone else have an idea here how to dampen the Pro Ject machine? My machine sounds like a nozzle jet when sucking out.
I don't - although I would have loved to have found a way to do that.
Have had my RD X for almost two weeks. I will probably return it for these two reasons: 1) The low torque of the motor makes it almost impossible to run the record in both directions for cleaning and drying. 2) I have cleaned about 50 records and could only hear a small difference in three of them. Maybe a little less surface noise, and maybe the sound is a little more open and vivid. The other 47, nothing. Same noise level. But I've misplaced my list of what's been cleaned so I'm listening to cleaned and uncleaned, I hear no difference. I sold my VPI cleaner 25 years ago but swear I used to hear much less noise and better sound after using it. Any suggestions anyone?
Sorry to hear that Tom. I did find the need to make sure the clamp was really tight to overcome the torque. It's only stopped once on me, and that was when I first got it. Since then it's never stopped.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Thanks for the reply. I've tried torquing down the clamp, I'll try more torque. Do you hear a consistent difference btw an uncleaned and cleaned record? I'm fluxed because my memory of the VPI vacuum cleaner was I could hear real differences. And I am pretty sure the RD X is at LEAST as good at cleaning as the 35 year old VPI.
@@TheTomryan123 Hmmm. Are these records that were cleaned before or the first time? I've noticed a difference with records that I've brought home which were used and somewhat dirty. For newer records it's not a huge difference. If you see the fluid being removed you can at least rest assured it's doing its job.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords It indeed is doing that. Just these last two days it's been doing a decent job with some $1.00 sixty-five+ year old classical records. Also a 65 year old Sinatra album which had less surface noise and more clarity. I am sure none of these rare find albums (that I found!) were ever cleaned. (And I'm actually enjoying the cleaning process. It's fun. I never had that with the VPI.)
@@TheTomryan123 I'm thrilled to hear that!
Okki Nokki is better not so loud!
Rick, you are a nice guy with exceptional taste in music but I wouldn't want to be your neighbor.
Judging by the three cleaning machines you own, you must have a lot of records that need cleaning.😆
Thankfully my nearest neighbor is far enough away 😂😂😂😂
The evidence on OUR side of the monitor had the Project coming in at a lower pitch, making it seem quieter (when you said the RD 6 was quieter, we here at Pendragon Hold Sound Labs were looking at each other and going "Wait.....WHAT?!" So, just to be TOTALLY fair, we added our Vinyl Vac doohickey to the mix, and as expected, came in quieter, thanks to the sound proofed box we placed the mini-vac in, AND the 25 decibels our bias subtracted from the test. AND THE WINNER WAS.........The degritter. Now go to your corners and cry..........Sound tests of cleaning machines are no different than American Idol finals.....you know, when everybody in the room stares at each other and go "What the hell just happened?" Judges OBVIOUSLY hear things that we people in the cheap seats can't...........
Did you make sure the left volume control was turned up? Interns are famous for fiddling with knobs when nobody is looking. I’m sure Pendragon Labs’ interns are no different - just more advanced.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords We wouldn't DARE touch a volume control.....that's what BALANCE knobs are for! But since a vacuum machine doesn't use balanced connections, we weren't Able to apply snake oil to the Platinum coated unbalanced power cord which feeds AC down one wire and DC back down the other, which thoroughly confused our interns, who in turn begged our one paid employee to draw a diagram for them to stare at, thinking that if they stared at a diagram long enough, the physics would make itself apparent and thus solve the imbalance in the perceived sound levels of the left channel. This DOES make perfect sense.....right?
@@FrightfulMess I can't argue with any of that logic 😂😂
There has to be a better way. All three of these are very noisy
I wish there was - I think it's inherent in vacuum solutions as good as they are
Really do not understand your dread of using the NOISY Pro Ject VC2, I don't clean my records in the room I would listen to anything, mine are done in the utility room where I can use it and my humminguru
That record doctor 10 on your video sounds horrendous 😅
Cleaning records is a must if you want the best sound and least record wear/damage so for me a little bit of noise is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things particularly as we don't listen to music at the same time.
My buddy has the new record doctor and he swears my VC2 cleans better than his.
I am sure that is just him doubting his purchase as he was very happy with the results on his records when I lent him my VC2 for a few days, he says he only bought the RD machine as he got a good deal on the price, he has NEVER moaned about either machine being noisy, he's just happy they do what they do as well as they do it as am I.
I certainly wouldn't buy a second wet vac machine just because of 1 or 2 db in noise difference, I would spend it on more records to clean.
I think most of the wet vac cleaners are so close in performance it's nit picking which is best