organic527 yes, wonderful. He is a man of God . What i love is when he says that through the silence he seeks the Word. The Word is God in Christianity. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 For those who don’t know i would like to explain that The Messiah Jesus is the Incarnated Word of God. I am not sure that the others knew what he meant.
Please dont add Christianity to this forum, because we dont get our beliefs from mystical experiences, no matter what the monk says. He is mislead. Jesus said Himself, that there is only one way to the Father and that is through Him. He said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Jesus would never condone what is going on in this forum. He was not only the Jewish Messiah that the prophets said would come and die on the cross for all man's sins, He is God. Read Isaiah 53. Isaiah prophesied this 700 years before Jesus was born. Come on guys! Do your homework!!! John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Before you die, read your bible. It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters what God says!!
I had a profound mystical experience that led me to becoming a Christian. There is a rich history of mysticism in the Christian faith. "I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one-as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me." John 17:21
Then if you know this, get help. Reasons to be unhappy are legitimate. Carrying it around and dumping it on others is not fair to you or those you attack. There are hundreds of people who have had extreme trauma experiences and they have turned it around by getting help. You make that choice. Don't use your trauma as an excuse to be mean to others. You are not 5 yrs old anymore. Now an adult, you need to move out of the trauma and live. It's your choice.
By the third or fourth episode, the Rabbi says that he does not think he himself is a Mystic, and he may actually have used his claim to lead into insulting Christianity with his Pork and Cheese sandwiches dream that never happened for him. In the Old Testament, through Moses, the Israelites were instructed by Yahweh that they must rejoice before Him when eating their food! There are numerous accounts, such as being rained on by quails, because they complained about food. I'm not sure why the Rabbi claimed that Moses experience at the burning bush was almost worthless. He said that very clearly around 12mins. I do not think there is any Christian Denomination who would say such a thing? By all that he led into by this, the Rabbi completely degraded or diminished the Mystical experience of the female Sufi, and the host of the show seemed to be biased in favor of the Rabbi. Also by the third or fourth episode the host is did not ask the female Sufi to speak anymore, so that she was completely cut out. Some Bible persons would not agree with the Rabbi's interpretation of Elijah having bowed down to someone he should not have. The Rabbi spoke of this also in part 3 or 4 episode.
Could you please spell the first name of the author you mention around minute 11:40 (for one of the scholars--Smith--of religion who wrote about the founding of our major religions on mystical experience)?
very elequent people...our master jesus is all i want and need know he is uncomparable his love and his will says it all the father son and holy spirit...stigmatization of religion and mysticism good and and evil to conjugate the infinit of consciosuness to look with the naked eye at the chaos of the universe is to understand that only god is good and there fore we com to the realization truth lyes with god and godness jesus is that...then what is mysticism if not jesus the truth of the matter is religion should not be diverse there is no point in knowing what is not truth. jesus spoke a house divided can not stand
Well of course. But your answer is lacking. You are angry with yourself. And that's not small potatoes either. It's pretty big stuff. All mean people are angry and unhappy. I was hoping you'd see this. Try to be kind. Kindness is real strength. I came at you because I detest bullies and mean people.
i just had a mystical experience a few months ago. it was fukin powerful. such serenity that i have never experienced in my life. it felt like that you are connected to something larger in universe. It was profound to say the least.
@Kyle Baggett I would like to suggest that you get to know the Orthodox Churches --- Eastern Orthodox (Antiochene, Russian, Romanian) or Oriental Orthodox (Coptic, Ethiopian), there's not much difference in essence. You will like them. If you tell me where you are, I may be able to give you some pointers if I know anything in your nick of the woods. May God lead you.
These people r just talking about mystical exp - they have no personal exp w God. Watch Charles Stanley of intouch ministry -- listen to his sermons on how listen to god n some of his petsonal testimonies.
I'm writing a dissertation on "The ethics of belief in mystical experience". Basically I am trying decide if a mystical experience should be allowed to effect one's belief system and to what extent. It appears that (a minority of the) people who have mystical experiences use these mystical experiences to form rather unreasonable beliefs. For example: the world was created in 7 days. If anybody could recommend any books or would like to comment on this I would be very grateful. Thanks
+tom jones Thank you for your comment. I will consider the points you made. With regard to your question, I am more interested in self imposed censorship - I've no real interest in the State's role. Although to be more precise, my study will go slight deeper than the ethics of self censorship (vis-á-vis beliefs formed through mystical experience). It will inquire into whether or not the mystic (so to speak) should allow the mystical experience to affect his belief system in the first place. My tentative answer to this at the moment is: in some case, yes. On a separate point. I've noticed that one of the sentences in my comment appears to be crossed out. I don't know why this :)!
Hi TEZ. This is a very serious discussion to get into. Since you are working theoretically rather than experientially, I will not go into great depth here, and you also wrote 4 years ago and may not see this. There is an essential difference between the mystical experience and the event of revelation. Knowledge of the creation in seven days was not achieved through mystical experiences, but by God revealing it. There is little reason to presume that the 7 days are literal 24 hour days. For instance, our markers of time, the sun and the moon, were not created first, so it seems rather obvious to me that we are not talking 24 hour days. It is my belief that mystical experiences, while beautiful, are very often not trustably authentically from God. You need a deep foundation in Theology to sift the wheat from the chaff here. Not just Christian Theology, but also hindu and buddhist and perhaps more. If you move beyond your dissertation to a vital, personal, existential need to know about this, let me know, perhaps I can offer some pointers.
TEZ, I just stumbled upon this video today, and was thrilled to see your comment/question. I'm so curious to know where you landed with this question. I hope it was not overly disruptive to your happiness. In my own life, I struggle with this idea but had not articulated the "problem" so plainly. In my mind, the separation of mysticism from " beliefs" ( I'm using "beliefs" to mean one's operating system in daily life) is synonymous with "preservation of sanity". This is a big bummer, and I think decreases or eliminates the likelihood of having any mystical experiences.
@@LM-uq9nv Thank you very much for your comment. I spent an hour typing a reply to your question but something went wrong and I lost my whole reply!! So I only have time now to give an inadequate sloppy response unworthy of your question. I also now only have time to go through my conclusions and not my arguments. However, hopefully it will help. Mystical experiences should be allowed to affect your beliefs. However, there are limits on this: 1) You should have a healthy loving rational mind and worldview before allowing your mystical experiences to seriously change your beliefs. Three stages of human consciousness. Instincts, rationality, mystical. Move up the ladder. 2) Mystical experiences should only be permitted to influence your basic values, world view, philosophy, big life decisions - not what socks you will wear today. 3) A mystical experience should not automatically have veto over your rational mind. If you feel led to do something dangerous or mad than it may not have been a mystical experience. Alternatively, it may have been a mystical experience but you interpreted it wrongly because of some bad background beliefs that your mystical experience was filtered through. 4) Move slowly, mystical experiences will gradually mold you. You don't need to start doing crazy things or changing your life every week. You may feel led to make big changes but real change is usually slow and at your own pace. It should feel natural. Finally, take care of yourself. Mystical experiences should make you be more like your true self, they should make your life and the life of others better. They are not meant to act like a lifeless rule book. They are not meant to make you feel bad about yourself all the time. They are not meant to make you feel overly anxious/guilty. Mystical experiences should present themselves as a loving, wise, and patient guiding force - even if they point out something you need to work on. Anything else is not worthy of your attention.
Mata Lynn is initiated into the Naqshbandiyya-Mujaddidiyya golden chain (via Sheikh Llewellyn Vaughan Lee). Please google the golden sufi center and check out the golden chain under the about menu.
I find it fascinating listening to these comments. There is such a difference between their approach and say that of teachers such as Osho, Sri Ramana Maharishi, Buddha and so on. If you examine Eastern teachings you will constantly come across the idea that 'enlightenment is not an experience'. If something arises and falls, comes into being then ceases, it is not awakening. The rabbi came closest when he said that experiences were simply 'pointers'. An experience does not matter - what matters is who, or what, is having the experience - and the answer to that never changes. Any experience of 'God', or 'One-ness', the 'Absolute', etc is just a part of the dualistic illusion we call reality. It may be very pleasant, awe inspiring, life changing, but it is still illusion.
"...the Spirit of God reaches us through the Souls of the Manifestations (Messengers). We must learn to commune with Their Souls, and this is what the Martyrs seemed to have done, and what brought them such ecstasy of joy that life became nothing. This is the true mysticism, and the secret, inner meaning of life..." - Shoghi Effendi, Unfolding Destiny
wow talking with you is like talking to budha. you are right I am angry depressed and misrable but I have good reasons for it. I am jalaus at happy people.becouse I suffer for no reason all the time.I had a realy hard life man, raped when I was 5 by my father and so on. so I have a good reason to be unhappy
I understand you have good reasons. And I sympathise. Allow me to be direct, very direct --. Self-pity won't help you, however - suppressing self-pity probably doesn't help much either. One thing I've learnt is that it is not the traumatic events themselves that give problems, it is our own reactions to them. When someone we love and trust mistreats us, it is common that it leads to depression. I suppose it might be because our love and trust on one hand, and our fear and self-protection on theother hand, struggle against one another. Forgiveness is crucial - until we can forgive, we are stuck with our anger or hatred, and even with our memories - we cannot let them go. At the root of all such problems, also your jealousy, is self-love. Awareness of this is a major step towards healing. These are some very tough truths, and I don't know if you are willing to 'use' them. Note that I didn't say able - I said willing. In any case, I'd suggest that you seek professional help - or you may spend you entire life without resolution. You have my sympathy and my best wishes. You may find Marie Cardinal's book "The Words to Say It" helpful. It's autobiographical, by a very seriously traumatised woman who found healing through psycho-analysis. I'm not suggesting that's the only way, but the book might give you some insights and handles on your problem. If you reply to this, I may have a few more things to say that might help.
not so great, narrow perspective, The Rabbi and Monk are virtually identical path, and sufi is self described as multi religious and fully informed by the religon of the two men, They speak from a tiny narrow source
Brother David speaks with such a wise and open heart... a lovely authentic spirit
organic527 Bless Brother David may He Rest in Peace....🕊
S. G. Brother David isn’t dead?
organic527 yes, wonderful. He is a man of God . What i love is when he says that through the silence he seeks the Word. The Word is God in Christianity. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1
For those who don’t know i would like to explain that The Messiah Jesus is the Incarnated Word of God.
I am not sure that the others knew what he meant.
Please dont add Christianity to this forum, because we dont get our beliefs from mystical experiences, no matter what the monk says. He is mislead. Jesus said Himself, that there is only one way to the Father and that is through Him. He said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Jesus would never condone what is going on in this forum. He was not only the Jewish Messiah that the prophets said would come and die on the cross for all man's sins, He is God. Read Isaiah 53. Isaiah prophesied this 700 years before Jesus was born. Come on guys! Do your homework!!! John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Before you die, read your bible. It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters what God says!!
I had a profound mystical experience that led me to becoming a Christian. There is a rich history of mysticism in the Christian faith.
"I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one-as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me."
John 17:21
I myself long to become a monk, but that probably won't happen...
Love Brother Steindal ..he has passed on to eternity but his teachings and knowledge will continue to benefit the Contemplative.
He's still alive according to Wiki. Usually I would like when they are wrong but really hoping they aren't here. Pax et lux
This is true interfaith dialogue. Very profesional host. Thank you for posting.
she just seems completely superficial in my opinion... like some hippie yoga teacher lol
Yes..and sort of puts down the 2 other mystics there , saying she was out of the box. How rude !
Then if you know this, get help. Reasons to be unhappy are legitimate. Carrying it around and dumping it on others is not fair to you or those you attack. There are hundreds of people who have had extreme trauma experiences and they have turned it around by getting help. You make that choice. Don't use your trauma as an excuse to be mean to others. You are not 5 yrs old anymore. Now an adult, you need to move out of the trauma and live. It's your choice.
I dunno, it's pretty much like talking about music or talking about sex, i.e., useless.
By the third or fourth episode, the Rabbi says that he does not think he himself is a Mystic, and he may actually have used his claim to lead into insulting Christianity with his Pork and Cheese sandwiches dream that never happened for him.
In the Old Testament, through Moses, the Israelites were instructed by Yahweh that they must rejoice before Him when eating their food! There are numerous accounts, such as being rained on by quails, because they complained about food. I'm not sure why the Rabbi claimed that Moses experience at the burning bush was almost worthless. He said that very clearly around 12mins. I do not think there is any Christian Denomination who would say such a thing?
By all that he led into by this, the Rabbi completely degraded or diminished the Mystical experience of the female Sufi, and the host of the show seemed to be biased in favor of the Rabbi. Also by the third or fourth episode the host is did not ask the female Sufi to speak anymore, so that she was completely cut out.
Some Bible persons would not agree with the Rabbi's interpretation of Elijah having bowed down to someone he should not have. The Rabbi spoke of this also in part 3 or 4 episode.
very nice...I always enjoy watching discussions with enlightened people such as these, who follow the true mystic path...
Could you please spell the first name of the author you mention around minute 11:40 (for one of the scholars--Smith--of religion who wrote about the founding of our major religions on mystical experience)?
Heh... I seriously considered being a Cistercian of the Strict Observance long, long ago.
very elequent people...our master jesus is all i want and need know he is uncomparable his love and his will says it all the father son and holy spirit...stigmatization of religion and mysticism good and and evil to conjugate the infinit of consciosuness to look with the naked eye at the chaos of the universe is to understand that only god is good and there fore we com to the realization truth lyes with god and godness jesus is that...then what is mysticism if not jesus the truth of the matter is religion should not be diverse there is no point in knowing what is not truth. jesus spoke a house divided can not stand
Well of course. But your answer is lacking. You are angry with yourself. And that's not small potatoes either. It's pretty big stuff. All mean people are angry and unhappy. I was hoping you'd see this. Try to be kind. Kindness is real strength. I came at you because I detest bullies and mean people.
it is our ego who is seeking experience
The truth is not experience it is what it is
i just had a mystical experience a few months ago. it was fukin powerful. such serenity that i have never experienced in my life. it felt like that you are connected to something larger in universe. It was profound to say the least.
@Kyle Baggett I would like to suggest that you get to know the Orthodox Churches --- Eastern Orthodox (Antiochene, Russian, Romanian) or Oriental Orthodox (Coptic, Ethiopian), there's not much difference in essence. You will like them. If you tell me where you are, I may be able to give you some pointers if I know anything in your nick of the woods. May God lead you.
These people r just talking about mystical exp - they have no personal exp w God. Watch Charles Stanley of intouch ministry -- listen to his sermons on how listen to god n some of his petsonal testimonies.
it might be that ur left brained.. she's prolly more appealing to right brained ppl (especially artists...women... ppl who feel emotions more).
I'm writing a dissertation on "The ethics of belief in mystical experience". Basically I am trying decide if a mystical experience should be allowed to effect one's belief system and to what extent. It appears that (a minority of the) people who have mystical experiences use these mystical experiences to form rather unreasonable beliefs. For example: the world was created in 7 days. If anybody could recommend any books or would like to comment on this I would be very grateful. Thanks
+tom jones Thank you for your comment. I will consider the points you made. With regard to your question, I am more interested in self imposed censorship - I've no real interest in the State's role. Although to be more precise, my study will go slight deeper than the ethics of self censorship (vis-á-vis beliefs formed through mystical experience). It will inquire into whether or not the mystic (so to speak) should allow the mystical experience to affect his belief system in the first place. My tentative answer to this at the moment is: in some case, yes. On a separate point. I've noticed that one of the sentences in my comment appears to be crossed out. I don't know why this :)!
Hi TEZ. This is a very serious discussion to get into. Since you are working theoretically rather than experientially, I will not go into great depth here, and you also wrote 4 years ago and may not see this.
There is an essential difference between the mystical experience and the event of revelation. Knowledge of the creation in seven days was not achieved through mystical experiences, but by God revealing it. There is little reason to presume that the 7 days are literal 24 hour days. For instance, our markers of time, the sun and the moon, were not created first, so it seems rather obvious to me that we are not talking 24 hour days.
It is my belief that mystical experiences, while beautiful, are very often not trustably authentically from God.
You need a deep foundation in Theology to sift the wheat from the chaff here. Not just Christian Theology, but also hindu and buddhist and perhaps more.
If you move beyond your dissertation to a vital, personal, existential need to know about this, let me know, perhaps I can offer some pointers.
TEZ, I just stumbled upon this video today, and was thrilled to see your comment/question.
I'm so curious to know where you landed with this question. I hope it was not overly disruptive to your happiness.
In my own life, I struggle with this idea but had not articulated the "problem" so plainly. In my mind, the separation of mysticism from " beliefs" ( I'm using "beliefs" to mean one's operating system in daily life) is synonymous with "preservation of sanity". This is a big bummer, and I think decreases or eliminates the likelihood of having any mystical experiences.
@@LM-uq9nv Thank you very much for your comment. I spent an hour typing a reply to your question but something went wrong and I lost my whole reply!! So I only have time now to give an inadequate sloppy response unworthy of your question. I also now only have time to go through my conclusions and not my arguments. However, hopefully it will help.
Mystical experiences should be allowed to affect your beliefs. However, there are limits on this:
1) You should have a healthy loving rational mind and worldview before allowing your mystical experiences to seriously change your beliefs. Three stages of human consciousness. Instincts, rationality, mystical. Move up the ladder.
2) Mystical experiences should only be permitted to influence your basic values, world view, philosophy, big life decisions - not what socks you will wear today.
3) A mystical experience should not automatically have veto over your rational mind. If you feel led to do something dangerous or mad than it may not have been a mystical experience. Alternatively, it may have been a mystical experience but you interpreted it wrongly because of some bad background beliefs that your mystical experience was filtered through.
4) Move slowly, mystical experiences will gradually mold you. You don't need to start doing crazy things or changing your life every week. You may feel led to make big changes but real change is usually slow and at your own pace. It should feel natural.
Finally, take care of yourself. Mystical experiences should make you be more like your true self, they should make your life and the life of others better. They are not meant to act like a lifeless rule book. They are not meant to make you feel bad about yourself all the time. They are not meant to make you feel overly anxious/guilty. Mystical experiences should present themselves as a loving, wise, and patient guiding force - even if they point out something you need to work on. Anything else is not worthy of your attention.
Mata Lynn is initiated into the Naqshbandiyya-Mujaddidiyya golden chain (via Sheikh Llewellyn Vaughan Lee). Please google the golden sufi center and check out the golden chain under the about menu.
Lynn pales in comparison to these other two men.
This was a great idea, I was there was more TV like this.
I find it fascinating listening to these comments. There is such a difference between their approach and say that of teachers such as Osho, Sri Ramana Maharishi, Buddha and so on. If you examine Eastern teachings you will constantly come across the idea that 'enlightenment is not an experience'. If something arises and falls, comes into being then ceases, it is not awakening. The rabbi came closest when he said that experiences were simply 'pointers'. An experience does not matter - what matters is who, or what, is having the experience - and the answer to that never changes. Any experience of 'God', or 'One-ness', the 'Absolute', etc is just a part of the dualistic illusion we call reality. It may be very pleasant, awe inspiring, life changing, but it is still illusion.
I agree. Reality is beyond experience.
I love this show. Thanks for posting:)
"...the Spirit of God reaches us through the Souls of the Manifestations (Messengers). We must learn to commune with Their Souls, and this is what the Martyrs seemed to have done, and what brought them such ecstasy of joy that life became nothing. This is the true mysticism, and the secret, inner meaning of life..." - Shoghi Effendi, Unfolding Destiny
You could be right there, (I'm actually an artist part time though lol). Sorry if I came across as harsh.
Peace
Just think of Dostoyevskys world revealing mysticism that came out of his epilepsy.Truly invredible
i can feel the energy in the room, so blissful!
with all your wisdom explain to everyone where you find the weak person in that sentence genius
?
I enjoyed this lesson...
Silence, and stillness is that which is, any identification with other is identifiable and of mind. .
Informative. Thank you.
amazing
where is the muslim representative ???
sufism.
The female sufi on the show.
What about having e Eye appear to you???
Link TV as already mentioned in the description.
wow talking with you is like talking to budha. you are right I am angry depressed and misrable but I have good reasons for it. I am jalaus at happy people.becouse I suffer for no reason all the time.I had a realy hard life man, raped when I was 5 by my father and so on. so I have a good reason to be unhappy
I understand you have good reasons. And I sympathise.
Allow me to be direct, very direct --.
Self-pity won't help you, however - suppressing self-pity probably doesn't help much either.
One thing I've learnt is that it is not the traumatic events themselves that give problems, it is our own reactions to them.
When someone we love and trust mistreats us, it is common that it leads to depression. I suppose it might be because our love and trust on one hand, and our fear and self-protection on theother hand, struggle against one another.
Forgiveness is crucial - until we can forgive, we are stuck with our anger or hatred, and even with our memories - we cannot let them go.
At the root of all such problems, also your jealousy, is self-love. Awareness of this is a major step towards healing.
These are some very tough truths, and I don't know if you are willing to 'use' them. Note that I didn't say able - I said willing. In any case, I'd suggest that you seek professional help - or you may spend you entire life without resolution.
You have my sympathy and my best wishes.
You may find Marie Cardinal's book "The Words to Say It" helpful. It's autobiographical, by a very seriously traumatised woman who found healing through psycho-analysis. I'm not suggesting that's the only way, but the book might give you some insights and handles on your problem.
If you reply to this, I may have a few more things to say that might help.
that is something weak people say all the time
On what channel did this originally air on?
right coz this is a competition ... lol
sound?
I get sound. Please try viewing the video on a different computer, tablet or phone.
Thank you!!!
not so great, narrow perspective, The Rabbi and Monk are virtually identical path, and sufi is self described as multi religious and fully informed by the religon of the two men, They speak from a tiny narrow source
One Little Indian that's your opinion , ONLY.
Gloria in Excelsis Deo! 🙏
The New Mystics by John Crowder
Great book by a truly crazy man.
at who? right now at you!
The lesson here is how much heresy can we fit into 15 min.?
Heresy is always heresy to someone else.