I think part of the appeal of Polish sabre fencing comes from the fact, that it is (at least partially) a lost art. And people tend to romanticise lost knowledge. So every time a western treatise mentions some trick used by Polish fencing masters (like the Hellish Polish Fourth, etc...), we get a slightly unrealistic expectation about how deadly it actually was. Pretty much the same thing happened to many eastern martial arts. But there are also two other factors that contribute to the popularity of Polish sabre. One of them is the presentation. A fencing school that relies heavilly on cross cuts and moulinettes is very attractive to look at. That's probably what makes sabre fencing more popular (at least in my experience) than rapier fencing, and what makes Polish sabre a particularly popular among various schools of sabre fencing. And there's one more thing, perhaps a deciding factor for many. Now while I love many of western sabres (like the British 1796 light cavalry sabre - pretty much an evolved version of Polish hussar sabre), I tend to find their history to be... quite mundane. Well, mundane is maybe not the best word here... But you only learn about the military aspect of a particular sword's history. In the case of Polish (and Hungarian) sabres it's very different. Sabres were much more ubiquitous, and had a larger cultural impact, making a history of every single type of sabre absolutelly fascinating. Just to give you an example - in the late 16th and early 17th century Poland you would identify your support for a particular political party (Executionist movement) by wearing a particular type of sabre (batorówka). Certain types of sabres (i.e. karabela) would signal your social position (it pretty much meant that you own more than one village). In some cases the colour of your scabbard could be interpreted as an invitation to a duel. So that's the paradox. Polish sabre is the least documented part of HEMA, but the weapon itself has an unparalleled, fascinating history that draws people in.
In all honesty though, people want to pick up szabla, because: 1. It might be part of their heritage, or they might just be Polish; 2. The lack of sources is intriguing, so it's a developing science, whenever someone finds a new snippet of info it gets passed around; 3. It already had a cult following, people heard the stories of Polish szabla being a god-like weapon in the past and they're drawn in; 4. People want to represent or research a culture that is very underrepresented in media, but still feels familiar.
Polish szabla as a god-like weapon? Since when? I've heard some people calling a winged Hussar sabre (the one with the thumb ring) as "the best sword" because how how many different types of cuts you can do with it(Is it even true?) but aside from that, I haven't heard much about polish sabre being such a great weapon.
Yagi They're not developing a new science though, are they? you're either doing Polish sabre, which seems impossible, or you're 'developing a new science' using a Polish sabre. very different things
I think it's a kind of new kid on the block thing, and because of the association with cool historical soldiers like the winged hussars. Plus, when you see demonstrations the reconstructed version at least tends to be more aggressive and less circumspect than other sabre traditions ("Parry? What parry? Keep cutting and let the other bastard parry!" - Hussar training sergeant). My main criticism other than the lack on manuals is a fairly minor point, which is that polish sabre practitioners seem to be very vulnerable to a cut 4 at the sword arm. Since the standard defense to this is to go from inside hanging guard to a high outside spadroon guard (aka sword arm protect), there is a lot of time to get the cut in under the opponent's point as the sword rotates through 270 degrees. Switching to an outside hanging guard instead (a 90 degree shift) would remedy this, but I don't see polish sabre practitioners doing it.
I think one of the main reasons for this interest in polish saber is about it's image in popular culture as an atribute, a symbol of nobleman's status, similar to that of a sword for western europe. When sabers became popular in western europe it was used by organized, modern military formations instead of knights. So western saber (and in consequence it's fighting techniques) is more anonymous, homogeneous, even souless, while polish saber have this romantic aura about it.
Richard speaks to this in his book. Namely that much of Polish sabre as a martial art is based on reconstructions based on accounts from journals, and the rest is supplemented by martial arts of other sabre treatise, specifically looking a dussack and stick fighting, but also commonly used techniques across other sabre styles. Reconstructive HEMA is not something people really think about but it is really important to note. Good topic Matt, cheers.
Well, there ARE two treatises about polish sabre from XIX century one by Master Starzewski, second one by Colonel Iwanowski. But as you said we still didn't discovered any from XVII century. There are also interesting materials for Hungarian and Russian sabre that weren't studied enough. I don't get the point of this video. So far no one was studying these treatises either... so what's the problem? Or is it just typical western european bias? I'm pretty sure that most of western and northern european sabres already have big attention, while polish or hungarian sabre without this current "hype" wouldn't be ever touched by anyone knowing how central-eastern europe basically doesn't exists in people's minds.
Badger0fDeath But the other styles were explored and have good amount of people researching and practising them already. While with polish sabre we're trying to recovered it. It's obvious it needs more attention. "while others with much older lineages " --- You mean younger, right?
Kamil Szadkowski Really, all the other styles already have plenty of people studying them? Stuff like the English backsword or German/Austrian military sabre?
Proportionally? Definitely much more than polish sabre. At least to recent time. Tell me, how many people are studying hungarian military sabre? Or russian shashka?
western military saber was heavily influenced by backsword. They are almost identical. Polish saber is interesting because its different. And the lack of scourge material gives room for experimentation and innovation. I love it because the Winged hussars are freaking awesome. I love Matt and watch all of his videos, but this honestly makes him sound like he's just irritated. Wonder how many people have come to his club asking to learn Polish saber?
The thing with Polish (or hungarian whatever) saber is that while there are no or not many treatises the saber as a weapon is engraved into the culture of those nations. You look most military statues people wear sabers. You read about any national hero they used sabers. You ask almost any child what sword Toldi or Kinizsi used they will tell you it was a sabre. (Even if they might didn't in reality) What sword Attila used, they will say a sabre (nope). My point is sabre is more important to millions of people, people without any particular military interest or education, and they get more passionate about it then most Englishmen would get about any type of sword. It would be much better to compare this interest to the Royal Navy than to lets say backswords. And of course as you said there are no treatises so imagine the frustration what you would feel if you have all those amazing naval legends and battles and heroes but there wouldn't be a single document how sailing ships were used.
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here: ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
For me, I've been fascinated by the Polish Hussar and the commonwealth since I read about them in high school, so I guess it's partly driven by reenactment. Plus my great grandma was Polish.
well i guess its due to the fact that fortunately most Polish people love their traditions! (by the way we in Hungary say szablya it must be the same world for the sword)
Once I heard that thesis: the reason of not having any treatises is a result of some specific rule - Polish saber is not a knowledge that any random person can gain. Rather than that it was like a secret passed to next generation not by means of books but via direct exercise
Maybe if German/French/Italian militaries decided to make swords that looked as cool as the Polish sabers they would have more people interested in them. That's really what it comes down to. Polish-Lithuanian/Hungarian Sabers have a unique aesthetic that is very different to Western European sabers and that draws people's interest.
It has never stopped beeing popular. HEMA was alife in Poland before the term HEMA came up. Even trough the times under soviet occupation since it was one of the few things they would us do..and while there are no manuals for polish sabre as they are for BMS. There are tons and tons of written materials and descriptions of fights (melee and duels) as well people alive that learned from somebody that learned from somebody and so forth. Also everything gets much more interesting to study when there is a shroud mistery surrounding it :)
Maybe this explosion of interest in PS will benefit HEMA after all. Dozens of experts must at some point lead this extinct art to the state of being as accurate as possible
Hello Matt, once again, I came back to this video. I believe our love to the Polish saber is in our (Polish) DNA. Through the history and art, we grow up with it and learn about it. Some of us are playing saber wielding heroes as kids, some like you, get interested in HEMA and historical reconstruction , some reach to the family roots, and the Polish saber plays a huge role. I personally had commissioned a replica of the XVII century saber, to add to the collection of a few, that my Grandfather and my Dad had collected before - including the WZ 34, that you also made a video about. “My” saber is being made by a great master blacksmith - Andrzej Mikiciak. Love your channel 😎👍🏻
Where can I find sabre treatises? Also, could someone point me to a source on Austro-Hungarian sabres, like a reference book, collectors guide or something?
The problem with draw weights is that there isn't much written about it in contemporary sources that is quantitative (though you can find estimates here and there for the late medieval period). Plus power can be achieved through either or both high draw weight and long draw length. If anything, historical manuals from multiple cultures devote far more words to the importance of coming to full draw (refer to Gao Ying, Peri Toxeias, the two middle eastern manuals, Toxophilus, etc), than to pulling a ridiculously heavy bow. Interestingly, Byzantine manuals (Taktika, Strategikon, etc) state that bows should be matched to a man's strength, but clarify that that should be a fair bit less than his maximum limit. The archers were intended to be shooting continuously, so they needed endurance. There's also the Byzantine manuals' point that "speed is important in shaking the arrow loose and discharging it with force". In other words, quickly coming to full draw and immediately loosing the arrow, avoiding material creep and hysteresis and a loss of power. So technique plays an important role as well. If Matt doesn't have the time to do a video on this subject, I'd be more than happy to.
ryddragyn thanks for the help ive heard a lot about how the romans used slingers over archer for their superior range i would like to see evidence of this and also how other cultures felt about wich was better the sling only realy became outdated with the use of stronger warbows i.e english longbows..theres not much info online comparing wich is better for range and power and up to what draw wieght does a sling out power a longbow.
Leon Pacuret Caeser had Cretan Archers while in Gaul, so we know there were archers fighting for the legions. We know Rome's auxiliary primarily were armed with weapons from the military traditions preceding Rome's occupation. I would assume it was less a preference towards slings and more that good slingers were easier to find than good archers.
Teddy Boragina: In a way. I suspect it's more specifically, "I need to do x hours a week of drills and sparring to learn szabla" versus "To learn Victorian military saber I need to start by reading a book". The former sounds more interesting. (Of course, after I've read the book, I then have to do x hours a week of drills and sparring practicing what I've read. That seems to get lost, though.)
I think people like it because of the cross-cutting and how it looks fancy and wild, especially when contrasted to the "posh" British and French military sabre of the 19th century, plus the whole Slavic culture is viewed as a fascinating oddity by a lot of westerners, same as Japanese or Chinese cultures.
...and the possible overlap with those using sharply curved swords in the balkans and indo-persia... lots to feed those who find the 'orient' 'exotic'.
The instructors can make up whatever they want, that is why it is popular most likely. You will start seeing McDojos popping up everywhere teaching their version of Polish Saber to make money.
Sadly, I think this is a factor. If you have no treatise to compare against to validate your system, it makes you less accountable to the wider HEMA community if you don't know what you're doing.
Evirthewarrior A lot of HEMA schools have internal promotion with ranks like novice, scholar, free scholar, provost etc. As long as they don't charge fees in exchange for promotion I think this is probably fine.
lancer D Normally it is totally fine, however some instructors use those ranks, to keep students coming, making them out to be better than they really are, they get very cult like and do not compete or share information with other schools. It is pervasive throughout the martial arts community. The instructor starts promoting himself, adding titles or rank, promotes students two to three times faster than anywhere else. It breeds a "chase the rank" situation where people want that next title and do not give a damn about the information. They want to be able to say "I'm a master in [insert martial art style]" In the case of belt rank "I'm a black belt in [insert martial art]"
A lot of people aren't interested in looking at primary sources and they might not even know where to find them or what swords have treaties. It comes down to what's available on places like UA-cam to capture a casual viewer.
In truth, what I have taken from all of your videos is your love and respect for all things sharp and pointy. Keep on teaching me more and more about these fine weapons - all of them. Thanks.
I think that people are studying the Polish sabre more than any other sabour because of the fact that there aren't many sources and traiteses about it. what fun would it be to read everything about the sword in a book and then talk about it on the Internet. in MY opinion it's very important to find out more information and write new sources about weapons like the Polish sabre, especially that the Polish history isn't that known and it is a big part of European history, in my opinion it should be studied a lot more as it is extremely interesting
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here: ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Hey Matt, polish sabre enthusiast here. Nice video, I think the interpretation/reconstruction of a lost discipline is what pulls many people towards looking at polish sabre as opposed to say British military styles or continental variants (For me in particular, I love the deep curve on the eastern swords).I would point out that I've studied and practiced the likes of Hutton and Roworth etc. etc. and I would recommend anyone interested in looking into polish sabre find a good treatise from a Western European source and learn its principles before trying to figure out how the polish might have done things differently. This has certainly helped me out a lot .
I really want to study English and Scots Backsword (and compare and contrast differences between) but unfortunately all the clubs within sensible travel time are German Longsword and I.33 focused - I'm not sure that I'm really up to self study as I don't want to get too many bad habits through personal misinterpretation - any advice on how to start?
Not impossible, but probably unlikely because of Poland's history unfortunately. I think it's more likely that a Russian or Austrian early sabre treatise will be found which would shed more like on early sabre. Already some of the Russian manuals give hints.
Yeah, Italy is southern and France western. Britain spans the central third on the north-south axis. Practically nothing south of the Baltic should be considered "Northern Europe". And before someone rides in bitching about tradition, or what some organization considers "Northern Europe", I don't care one bit. I care about logic.
Well the term "Northern European" has different meanings depending on the era and the region. Correct me if I am wrong, but in England in the 19th century (what is Matt's area of expertise), people would have put France into Northern Europe.
Deja vu, I just saw you comment on this yesterday on FaceBook! That said, what recommendations do you have for French military sabre treatises? And do they come in English? Also, what's the sword hanging vertically on the left wall (from the audience) that's closest to the corner? It's near the other sword on the ground.
QUESTION Hey I like your videos, just wanted to know what style you think someone could kind of "graduate" to from polish saber. I'm sure it depends on what you want to do as a swordsman but perhaps there is intelligent method of progression involving different styles?
just throwing this out there, i plan to start studying sabre this year, the only and easiest treatise i have available is obviously huttons cold steel which im liking, BUT where can i find a german sabre treatise??? translated or not i dont mind, main reason is A. i can speak german and B though im in australia my family is largely from hamburg/northern europe so i kind of like studying what was popular where my family were at for the mostpart. So i started with german longsword (also because that was the closest club) ive expanded to fabris rapier which was popular in hamburg, denmark, north germany etc and influenced the traditions, but where am i going to find a german sabre manual???? sorry for rant :) keep making vids Matt their great and also props to being on some history shows i saw you on what was it umm ancient assassins? was good, got a smile seeing you there :) peace all!
German French British start using sabre about two hundred years later. I believe sabre come up to Poland from Hungary in numbers for first time and staying there till September 1939. Sadly true is that today we do not have original polish sources how to use it. Still legend will live on and on
Isn't Polish sabre practice mostly in Poland? Is it that popular in other parts of Europe? Also, if there is very little information about it all research and reconstruction is more valuable and needed than practising styles than are well documented and known?
Hello Mr. Easton, I would really like to learn about other saber fencing styles! Can you provide some links online about the existing saber fencing treatises of other countries (British, French, German - anything other than polish really)? Frankly I'll admit that I've only been vaguely aware that other countries used sabers as a cavalry weapon but I was not aware that they had complex traditions and styles to them, so this is a really cool discovery. P.S. What are some general differences between the different saber fencing styles of the different countries? What is your favorite saber style?
I'd love to see a video from you talking about the broad differences between the different styles of sabre by country. What the various countries' philosophies were in regards to sabre fighting. Cheers.
It was a slight rant, Matt. But I understand your point of the video. Most of my limited HEMA experience has been German Longsword (Letchaur, spelled wrong I know). My club just started a sabre night for both British Military Sabre (Hutton) and Polish, which I have now done some of both and see some similarities, and difference between the two systems. Maybe, not one of your best videos, in my opinion, but again I understand your point.
Ben Trieschmann ah but the point is that "polish sabre" style is just made up for the most part and could be radically different to how it was used. its less hema and more modern, based strongly on individual trainers experience with other sabre/sword styles.
Is it though? There are two treatises strong enough (though not early enough) to matter. There are multiple depictions of fighting styles used in Poland, Lithuania and Hungary as well, which helps decoding the stances and cuts used. Not all of them are accurate. Nothing as comprehensive or nicely illustrated as medieval manuscripts or even Hutton's manuals, but good enough. There's a lot of work and research to be done. (May I remind you that Hutton did reconstructive work still, based on Silver and Marozzo. It's not a clean old sabre style either.)
+scholagladiatoria Hey schola, since you mentioned it may you please make a video explaining the differences and traits between the different saber traditions? I mean, you get tot talk about context and we all know how you love context :D Thanks you for your time and for the knowledge. Cheers
A protective metal covering on a sheaths/scabbards tip is called a 'chape'. There is often extra extensions on chapes on both leather and metal scabbards ( such as the flattened protruding, rounded, flanges you identify on the top two scabbards) to give enhanced protection from wear - these extensions are referred to as a 'drag', or 'shoe'.
When i say italian longsword i mean all lineages from italy. Idk if you understood my comment. I meant that there are many other hema branches based and different nations and masters that are more popular than polish sabre. You want more sword styles to be popular in hema based on other nations and treatises while you yourself teach (i dont remember correctly) but i think you said you teach fiorre and tah hoffer. Polish saber isnt going to replace all of other hema styles.
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here: ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Would you not say that the majority of pre 16th century systems are in some sense re-constructive because so much of the early material relies on interpretation and many of the core principles of even heavily studied and complete treatises, e.g. Fiore, Ringeck, i.33 are still debated among HEMA practitioners due to difficulties of language, idiom and the way these books were written?
Pre-1501? Many treatises from before 1501 contain a lot of detail - compared to zero detail about Polish sabre in that period, as far as I'm aware. When we're able to agree with basically every other Fiore group about how to do 95% of the techniques from his treatises, I think that's a pretty high degree of information transfer and convergence. If we get into the 16th century then things like Meyer and Marozzo are absolutely massive - so much so that I don't know anybody doing all of Marozzo for example. It's just got so much content.
Where do you find those treaties? I try to find some german ones for some time now and i cannot find any. Maybe i'm not looking in the right places. They don't have to be in german, english would be fine.
One of the cool things about saber is that most countries have their systems and masters! France, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Germany, Russia... It's a shame everyone does the same thing - whether it's polish or british! It's not like longsword when you have to go german or italian.
Hey Matt you said that you also study german military saber. I as a german am really interested in this topic but can hardly find any sources... Where do you found yours and could you provide some for me? Many thanks and greetings!
Polish saber's popularity might be partially due to how awesome purple heart armory's synthetic Polish saber is. I wish I was swinging mine around right now.
Walloon swords, also known as spadroons in Britain (no, not that kind of spadroon) also have thumb rings and offer better hand protection than the polish sabre. The authors of several British 18th century treatises considered these to be the best sword for defense and an ideal compromise between the old highland basket-hilted broadsword and the french smallsword.
Thumb ring may be on sabre used in Poland but don't have to. Also such thing as "polish sabre" don't exist. There was many types of sabres used in Poland but none was called "polish sabre". szabla husarska(to some extend modified type II hungarian saber) karabela szabla węgiersko-polska(hungariam-polish) szabla ormiańska(armenian) szabla ormianska futher go to: czeczuga smyczek ordynka karabela ormiańska(armenian karabel) Kościuszkowska Batorówka Zygmuntówka Janówka saber wz. 34(wz. mean wzór which translate to pattern/model end number usually is year(or at least two last digits of year)) saber wz. 1971 saber wz. 1976 saber wz. 1934/2002 End many more.
if you're getting hit in the hand when using polish saber, you're either trying to: guard with it - stop that, there are no guards in polish saber bend your elbow- this will put your hand on danger not raising the blade enough when you are going for a cut- this will put your hand in danger. i use a shashka for polish saber, the top edge of my grip has been hit a few times, but never my hand, even during drills where the opponent specifically tries to hit the hand.
Matt how about you pick your idea of the best British cavalry sabre of the 19th Century and the best British Infantry officers sword of the 19th Century, as a fighting sword?
Radimkiller Possibly. Although the swords may be the same, the fighting styles aren't necessarily. Using a 15th century example, German longsword and Italian longsword have somewhat different guards.
AFAIK polish sabres were quite a bit different from western military sabers. I believe later military sabers became more similar to them though. You can spot eastern european sabres when looking at the guard or the thumb ring. I think that they were handled fundamentally the same, but the foot work and guards might have been a bit different (and preference of cuts/parries...). Moreover, the use of the ring (on some sabres) must have some impact too, but I don't know enough to speculate how.
19th century sabre uses almost totally linear footwork and the hand is kept forward, while Polish sabre, being an earlier style, has more passing footwork and the hand is often kept retracted.
German and Polish sabres are definitely different. But german sabre was definitely influenced by polish. Especially after Saxony entered personal union with Poland.
I just started studying Henry Charles Angelo's British infantry saber. Very interesting and engrossing material, and the rest of the guys at Texas Armizare are keen to learn, just wanted to say thank you for making it available!
(there are subtitles) he is saying that fighting without gloves will give the fencer more freedom to do few circular techniques . different perspective.
Matt, I'm certainly no expert but I heard this statement about Polish Saber recently. Perhaps you can comment. I paraphrase: "Polish Saber techniques were for Aristocrats to settle affairs of Honor. First Blood was sufficient. Killing your client or cutting his sword arm off would cause far more headaches than it was worth. Ergo Polish Saber is less than a pure martial art where presumably the objective is: "Kill! Kill!! KILL!!!" …..RVM45
Preach! It's weird how this sort of thing takes off. Like Polish winged hussars Vs normal hussars. Historically we don't know that much about them, like whether or not they really did have wings even, and yet winged hussars own the internet while normal light cavalry hussars have such a massive historical footprint that it makes the winged kind look like "ancient aliens" by comparrison.
On question how many of british french german etc. saber treatises come from xvii century? So far it seems all of them are from xviii or even xix centuries so there you have it
Cool to get a response! Could you give some examples of xvii century treatises of saber fencing? The most sources you seem to refer to are xviii and xix century ones.
I can see how that could be irritating as someone interested in the history and tradition of the thing. I think most people just want an effective and versatile system (we're competitive that way). I'm really arguing for learning ALL of it lol
szabla is a cool looking word and the lack of sources is what adds to its popularity, its mysterious! I heard that if you use real polish saber technique and have perfect form your opponents defenses are overwhelmed with the largest cavalry charge in history!
The Polish sabre was very dangerous cause enabled using special techniques which were not possible using straight sabres or profiled in other way, even katana. The success of this sabre confirmed practice and history. For example, it was used by Polish winged-hussars (e.g. at Vienna 1683) which were undefeated during period of 125 years ! It was like now bomb A military formation.
It is funny for me when I see the "Polish sabre - szabla" term, like the "szabla" was some name for that weapon. No, the word "szabla" in Poland means just a sabre, any kind really. It is equal to the word sabre. And even when you say "Polish sabre" (or "polska szabla" / "szabla polska" in Poland) it is still too generous term, because in Poland many types of sabers was used from 15th to 20th century.
People also use the German word "Messer" as if it's a technical term when it literally just means "knife". These things happen I guess, it's a useful shorthand.
there were different types of sabres that distinctly different from each other e.g. Karabela (a saber used by szlachte nobles commonly and have eagle shaped Handles i dont how to call them in english. anyway theres many various types of sabres Batorowka, Wisniowiecka, Kontuszowa etc.
As someone who does british military sabre and silvers broadsword, AND polish sabre, I agree on all points. I wish we hard extant manuals, it would make things to much simpler. Although for me its less about marsden and his book (which I do have, and is good) and more about personal family history etc. Either way I'd be inclined to say studying middles eastern and indian swordsmanship would likely be useful for any practicioner of polish sabre, seeing as the indian styles and the turkish styles were reportedly similar to the polish ones, but more of the tradition has survived. Sadly, I know no one who teaches it.
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here: ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here: ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Not trying to throw shade. The sentiment is fine if the only thing you're after is a perfect reproduction of martial arts that lost their relevance centuries ago, but it kinda misses another piece of what draws people to HEMA in the first place, cultural identity, whether that's European or national. Complaining about something like this feels like a back-handed way of saying that anything without a treatise is illegitimate, and that their energy is better spent on more legitimate treatises. Maybe they should have another term invented to describe it, like FEMA, Fake European Martial Arts. I think The energy associated the study and reconstruction of traditions that don't have extant historical treaties is fine, and helps expand the HEMA community in the long run. Gives more people a way to connect culturally with the groups they identify with, and helps build a larger community. Take the example you focus on, Polish sabre, only historical tid-bits a bit of borrowing from the Germans, and no full treatises, but I'd argue who gives a crap? So long as people get to practice a martial art they enjoy, and it's functional within the larger group, the sourcing shouldn't matter. Hell, considering the dipping into German texts for the example you cited, they're already studying a treatise based on reality. These techniques didn't exist in a vacuum, so there probably was quite a bit of borrowing going on anyway.
Hema is cool, and its very specific. My one thing is that there is no Hma scene that I can find, I wish they would let non-European Hma into Hema or somehow make another scene which would be a lot more work. You even mentioned Indian sword fighting, which isn’t European. There is so much cool historical sword fighting and martial arts across the world, I just wish it was broadened more.
I think part of the appeal of Polish sabre fencing comes from the fact, that it is (at least partially) a lost art. And people tend to romanticise lost knowledge. So every time a western treatise mentions some trick used by Polish fencing masters (like the Hellish Polish Fourth, etc...), we get a slightly unrealistic expectation about how deadly it actually was. Pretty much the same thing happened to many eastern martial arts.
But there are also two other factors that contribute to the popularity of Polish sabre.
One of them is the presentation. A fencing school that relies heavilly on cross cuts and moulinettes is very attractive to look at. That's probably what makes sabre fencing more popular (at least in my experience) than rapier fencing, and what makes Polish sabre a particularly popular among various schools of sabre fencing.
And there's one more thing, perhaps a deciding factor for many. Now while I love many of western sabres (like the British 1796 light cavalry sabre - pretty much an evolved version of Polish hussar sabre), I tend to find their history to be... quite mundane. Well, mundane is maybe not the best word here... But you only learn about the military aspect of a particular sword's history. In the case of Polish (and Hungarian) sabres it's very different. Sabres were much more ubiquitous, and had a larger cultural impact, making a history of every single type of sabre absolutelly fascinating. Just to give you an example - in the late 16th and early 17th century Poland you would identify your support for a particular political party (Executionist movement) by wearing a particular type of sabre (batorówka). Certain types of sabres (i.e. karabela) would signal your social position (it pretty much meant that you own more than one village). In some cases the colour of your scabbard could be interpreted as an invitation to a duel.
So that's the paradox. Polish sabre is the least documented part of HEMA, but the weapon itself has an unparalleled, fascinating history that draws people in.
Amazing information, thank you for taking the time to write this.
Great comment, thanks!
So...
The cultural significance gives it a big boost.
Which means the Polish Saber is kinda like the Katana in this aspect.
The collar gives you a Nosferatu look.
And his teeth does not?
Yes Nosferatu. xD
HEY! Any update on the Carthage graphic novels you are working on????
They're still working on it. It's a lot of work you know!
Jealous hobbitses
Oh, c'mon. We know you don't want people to study Polish saber, because you'll have to say Jerzy and Starzyński more often!
Or Maciejowski.
tomekm1804 Maciejowi*c*ki, actually. ;-)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Maciejowski
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Maciejowski
But it's still depend of context. ;)
tomekm1804 You are right, I was wrong.
In all honesty though, people want to pick up szabla, because:
1. It might be part of their heritage, or they might just be Polish;
2. The lack of sources is intriguing, so it's a developing science, whenever someone finds a new snippet of info it gets passed around;
3. It already had a cult following, people heard the stories of Polish szabla being a god-like weapon in the past and they're drawn in;
4. People want to represent or research a culture that is very underrepresented in media, but still feels familiar.
Polish szabla as a god-like weapon? Since when? I've heard some people calling a winged Hussar sabre (the one with the thumb ring) as "the best sword" because how how many different types of cuts you can do with it(Is it even true?) but aside from that, I haven't heard much about polish sabre being such a great weapon.
Jacek N because poland master race
Yagi They're not developing a new science though, are they? you're either doing Polish sabre, which seems impossible, or you're 'developing a new science' using a Polish sabre. very different things
Ó Slattarra alright Nietzsche
I think it's a kind of new kid on the block thing, and because of the association with cool historical soldiers like the winged hussars. Plus, when you see demonstrations the reconstructed version at least tends to be more aggressive and less circumspect than other sabre traditions ("Parry? What parry? Keep cutting and let the other bastard parry!" - Hussar training sergeant). My main criticism other than the lack on manuals is a fairly minor point, which is that polish sabre practitioners seem to be very vulnerable to a cut 4 at the sword arm. Since the standard defense to this is to go from inside hanging guard to a high outside spadroon guard (aka sword arm protect), there is a lot of time to get the cut in under the opponent's point as the sword rotates through 270 degrees. Switching to an outside hanging guard instead (a 90 degree shift) would remedy this, but I don't see polish sabre practitioners doing it.
But there are loads of bat'leth treatises, even 3D video footage of masters using them, and you ignore all of this.
I'd rather study Form VII of the lightsaber.
POLONORUM IMPERIUM
HAHAHAHAHA! Stupidity is cheap and readily available in the universe.
Well, if there are only loads, but not butt-loads, it might not be enough for Matt! ;)
I think one of the main reasons for this interest in polish saber is about it's image in popular culture as an atribute, a symbol of nobleman's status, similar to that of a sword for western europe. When sabers became popular in western europe it was used by organized, modern military formations instead of knights. So western saber (and in consequence it's fighting techniques) is more anonymous, homogeneous, even souless, while polish saber have this romantic aura about it.
"Literally a butt-load"? I do not think that means what you think it means.
Lindybeige No, it is an actual measurement equivalent to 126 gallons.
126 gallons of people are studying Polish sabre Lindy!
Lindybeige
When the f*ck did people start using the word, "literally," all the time, instead of using "figuratively?" Hate it.
Lindybeige
Yes, and I think "butt-load" is adult industry jargon lol.
I farted with joy at seeing this comment.
It is darn annoying that literally everyone uses the term "literally" wrong
Richard speaks to this in his book. Namely that much of Polish sabre as a martial art is based on reconstructions based on accounts from journals, and the rest is supplemented by martial arts of other sabre treatise, specifically looking a dussack and stick fighting, but also commonly used techniques across other sabre styles.
Reconstructive HEMA is not something people really think about but it is really important to note. Good topic Matt, cheers.
Well, there ARE two treatises about polish sabre from XIX century one by Master Starzewski, second one by Colonel Iwanowski. But as you said we still didn't discovered any from XVII century. There are also interesting materials for Hungarian and Russian sabre that weren't studied enough.
I don't get the point of this video. So far no one was studying these treatises either... so what's the problem? Or is it just typical western european bias? I'm pretty sure that most of western and northern european sabres already have big attention, while polish or hungarian sabre without this current "hype" wouldn't be ever touched by anyone knowing how central-eastern europe basically doesn't exists in people's minds.
Kamil Szadkowski. couldn't agree more.
Badger0fDeath But the other styles were explored and have good amount of people researching and practising them already. While with polish sabre we're trying to recovered it. It's obvious it needs more attention.
"while others with much older lineages " --- You mean younger, right?
Kamil Szadkowski Really, all the other styles already have plenty of people studying them? Stuff like the English backsword or German/Austrian military sabre?
Proportionally? Definitely much more than polish sabre. At least to recent time.
Tell me, how many people are studying hungarian military sabre? Or russian shashka?
western military saber was heavily influenced by backsword. They are almost identical. Polish saber is interesting because its different. And the lack of scourge material gives room for experimentation and innovation. I love it because the Winged hussars are freaking awesome.
I love Matt and watch all of his videos, but this honestly makes him sound like he's just irritated. Wonder how many people have come to his club asking to learn Polish saber?
The thing with Polish (or hungarian whatever) saber is that while there are no or not many treatises the saber as a weapon is engraved into the culture of those nations. You look most military statues people wear sabers. You read about any national hero they used sabers. You ask almost any child what sword Toldi or Kinizsi used they will tell you it was a sabre. (Even if they might didn't in reality) What sword Attila used, they will say a sabre (nope).
My point is sabre is more important to millions of people, people without any particular military interest or education, and they get more passionate about it then most Englishmen would get about any type of sword. It would be much better to compare this interest to the Royal Navy than to lets say backswords.
And of course as you said there are no treatises so imagine the frustration what you would feel if you have all those amazing naval legends and battles and heroes but there wouldn't be a single document how sailing ships were used.
Dobrze powiedziane, Bracie
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here:
ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Oh, Matt. It's not "literally" a buttload. That's just ridiculous. The literal term is "metric fuck-ton." :-)
Alefiend could be though.
Depends on the size of the butt. Are we talking Meg Ryan or J-lo here?
Technically, a butt load is 126 gallons, so...
For me, I've been fascinated by the Polish Hussar and the commonwealth since I read about them in high school, so I guess it's partly driven by reenactment. Plus my great grandma was Polish.
just because you have polish sabre friends doesnt mean you are not antipolishsabre racist!
Aye, stop Britishsabresplaining, Matt.
Oh dear, HEMA+ incoming!
#NotAllPolishSabres
"I do like Poland" - Matt Easton 2017
well i guess its due to the fact that fortunately most Polish people love their traditions!
(by the way we in Hungary say szablya it must be the same world for the sword)
Greeting from Poland. Just wanted to clarify that polish 'szabla' is a word specific for 'saber', a regular 'sword' is called 'miecz'.
ohh my bad! i tired to refer to the sabre. (so szablya = sabre = szabla) for a regular sword our word is: kard
Márk Vidéki I do believe the word (saber, sabre, sable, szabla, etc) originates from Hungarian.
Similar in Croatian, mač is sword, sablja is sabre.
Swedish: sabre is "sabel", sword is "svärd". So quite similar to the english and central european words.
You know, the chinese military longsword does have treatisies as well
I do know :-)
:D
hhahahahaha
what is chinese military longsword? Or which one are you referring to specifically?
Kama Sutra dude.
Once I heard that thesis: the reason of not having any treatises is a result of some specific rule - Polish saber is not a knowledge that any random person can gain. Rather than that it was like a secret passed to next generation not by means of books but via direct exercise
Maybe if German/French/Italian militaries decided to make swords that looked as cool as the Polish sabers they would have more people interested in them. That's really what it comes down to. Polish-Lithuanian/Hungarian Sabers have a unique aesthetic that is very different to Western European sabers and that draws people's interest.
It has never stopped beeing popular. HEMA was alife in Poland before the term HEMA came up. Even trough the times under soviet occupation since it was one of the few things they would us do..and while there are no manuals for polish sabre as they are for BMS. There are tons and tons of written materials and descriptions of fights (melee and duels) as well people alive that learned from somebody that learned from somebody and so forth.
Also everything gets much more interesting to study when there is a shroud mistery surrounding it :)
You say you don't understand Polish sabre's popularity and yet you gave the exact reason in this video!
Maybe this explosion of interest in PS will benefit HEMA after all. Dozens of experts must at some point lead this extinct art to the state of being as accurate as possible
Hello Matt, once again, I came back to this video. I believe our love to the Polish saber is in our (Polish) DNA. Through the history and art, we grow up with it and learn about it. Some of us are playing saber wielding heroes as kids, some like you, get interested in HEMA and historical reconstruction , some reach to the family roots, and the Polish saber plays a huge role.
I personally had commissioned a replica of the XVII century saber, to add to the collection of a few, that my Grandfather and my Dad had collected before - including the WZ 34, that you also made a video about.
“My” saber is being made by a great master blacksmith - Andrzej Mikiciak.
Love your channel 😎👍🏻
Where can I find sabre treatises? Also, could someone point me to a source on Austro-Hungarian sabres, like a reference book, collectors guide or something?
please do more on slings and ancient bows draw wieghts...love the vids btw.:)
The problem with draw weights is that there isn't much written about it in contemporary sources that is quantitative (though you can find estimates here and there for the late medieval period).
Plus power can be achieved through either or both high draw weight and long draw length. If anything, historical manuals from multiple cultures devote far more words to the importance of coming to full draw (refer to Gao Ying, Peri Toxeias, the two middle eastern manuals, Toxophilus, etc), than to pulling a ridiculously heavy bow.
Interestingly, Byzantine manuals (Taktika, Strategikon, etc) state that bows should be matched to a man's strength, but clarify that that should be a fair bit less than his maximum limit. The archers were intended to be shooting continuously, so they needed endurance.
There's also the Byzantine manuals' point that "speed is important in shaking the arrow loose and discharging it with force". In other words, quickly coming to full draw and immediately loosing the arrow, avoiding material creep and hysteresis and a loss of power. So technique plays an important role as well.
If Matt doesn't have the time to do a video on this subject, I'd be more than happy to.
ryddragyn thanks for the help ive heard a lot about how the romans used slingers over archer for their superior range i would like to see evidence of this and also how other cultures felt about wich was better the sling only realy became outdated with the use of stronger warbows i.e english longbows..theres not much info online comparing wich is better for range and power and up to what draw wieght does a sling out power a longbow.
Leon Pacuret Caeser had Cretan Archers while in Gaul, so we know there were archers fighting for the legions. We know Rome's auxiliary primarily were armed with weapons from the military traditions preceding Rome's occupation. I would assume it was less a preference towards slings and more that good slingers were easier to find than good archers.
wots draw weights
Hao Chao Tsi Minh
It's a measure of how hard to pull a bow.
Poolish Spodroon, ned moer fullowers
I'm subskriebd
subscribedski
what in the f--- :D
I enjoy the ScoolaGlahdiatooria channel.
Ned tu uplowd mor vedeos tu folow u on paytreeon
it's because oh how good looking the polish sabers are. they're just that much cooler than military sabers that all look pretty similar
I think people like it because it has no treatise
Teddy Boragina: In a way. I suspect it's more specifically, "I need to do x hours a week of drills and sparring to learn szabla" versus "To learn Victorian military saber I need to start by reading a book". The former sounds more interesting.
(Of course, after I've read the book, I then have to do x hours a week of drills and sparring practicing what I've read. That seems to get lost, though.)
I think people like it because of the cross-cutting and how it looks fancy and wild, especially when contrasted to the "posh" British and French military sabre of the 19th century, plus the whole Slavic culture is viewed as a fascinating oddity by a lot of westerners, same as Japanese or Chinese cultures.
...and the possible overlap with those using sharply curved swords in the balkans and indo-persia... lots to feed those who find the 'orient' 'exotic'.
Well, you have to swing like you're using a flail.
To add to Ranziel1, there's also the fact that winged hussars are generally considered cool as shit.
The instructors can make up whatever they want, that is why it is popular most likely. You will start seeing McDojos popping up everywhere teaching their version of Polish Saber to make money.
Sadly, I think this is a factor. If you have no treatise to compare against to validate your system, it makes you less accountable to the wider HEMA community if you don't know what you're doing.
lancer D It happens in most martial arts, Just wait until they have an internal promotion system added, then schools turn into belt factories.
Evirthewarrior A lot of HEMA schools have internal promotion with ranks like novice, scholar, free scholar, provost etc. As long as they don't charge fees in exchange for promotion I think this is probably fine.
lancer D Normally it is totally fine, however some instructors use those ranks, to keep students coming, making them out to be better than they really are, they get very cult like and do not compete or share information with other schools. It is pervasive throughout the martial arts community. The instructor starts promoting himself, adding titles or rank, promotes students two to three times faster than anywhere else. It breeds a "chase the rank" situation where people want that next title and do not give a damn about the information.
They want to be able to say "I'm a master in [insert martial art style]" In the case of belt rank "I'm a black belt in [insert martial art]"
McDojos. I love it.
A lot of people aren't interested in looking at primary sources and they might not even know where to find them or what swords have treaties. It comes down to what's available on places like UA-cam to capture a casual viewer.
In truth, what I have taken from all of your videos is your love and respect for all things sharp and pointy. Keep on teaching me more and more about these fine weapons - all of them. Thanks.
I think that people are studying the Polish sabre more than any other sabour because of the fact that there aren't many sources and traiteses about it. what fun would it be to read everything about the sword in a book and then talk about it on the Internet. in MY opinion it's very important to find out more information and write new sources about weapons like the Polish sabre, especially that the Polish history isn't that known and it is a big part of European history, in my opinion it should be studied a lot more as it is extremely interesting
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here:
ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Could you do a vid on the differences between the military sabre arts of various countries?
NakMuayify I agree this would be really interesting!
Hey Matt, polish sabre enthusiast here. Nice video, I think the interpretation/reconstruction of a lost discipline is what pulls many people towards looking at polish sabre as opposed to say British military styles or continental variants (For me in particular, I love the deep curve on the eastern swords).I would point out that I've studied and practiced the likes of Hutton and Roworth etc. etc. and I would recommend anyone interested in looking into polish sabre find a good treatise from a Western European source and learn its principles before trying to figure out how the polish might have done things differently. This has certainly helped me out a lot .
So you're saying it's maybe trendy? Which is a bad reason to want to study something?
What do you know about Dutch and Swedish Sabers? (as two other north-western countries of importance in that era)
As I understand it, Polish sabre would be "reconstructive" hema. I personally find it appealing cause WINGED HUSSARS! God, they were so cool.
I really want to study English and Scots Backsword (and compare and contrast differences between) but unfortunately all the clubs within sensible travel time are German Longsword and I.33 focused - I'm not sure that I'm really up to self study as I don't want to get too many bad habits through personal misinterpretation - any advice on how to start?
Matt, you should do some videos on fasion. You're always so stylish.
What treatise or book would you recommend for someone starting out with English sabre? Hutton is readily available, but it's pretty late.
The Witcher made me attracted to the Polish culture.
Another semi related question. How likely do you think it is that a 17th century or later Polish sabre treatise will be found.
Not impossible, but probably unlikely because of Poland's history unfortunately. I think it's more likely that a Russian or Austrian early sabre treatise will be found which would shed more like on early sabre. Already some of the Russian manuals give hints.
France and Italy are not Northern European, Matt . . . Pls Stahp. . .
France is usually considered the transition between southern and northern europe.
I imagine he meant western.
Yeah, Italy is southern and France western. Britain spans the central third on the north-south axis. Practically nothing south of the Baltic should be considered "Northern Europe".
And before someone rides in bitching about tradition, or what some organization considers "Northern Europe", I don't care one bit. I care about logic.
Well the term "Northern European" has different meanings depending on the era and the region.
Correct me if I am wrong, but in England in the 19th century (what is Matt's area of expertise), people would have put France into Northern Europe.
Archsinner You are Wrong.
Deja vu, I just saw you comment on this yesterday on FaceBook!
That said, what recommendations do you have for French military sabre treatises? And do they come in English?
Also, what's the sword hanging vertically on the left wall (from the audience) that's closest to the corner? It's near the other sword on the ground.
QUESTION
Hey I like your videos, just wanted to know what style you think someone could kind of "graduate" to from polish saber.
I'm sure it depends on what you want to do as a swordsman but perhaps there is intelligent method of progression involving different styles?
just throwing this out there, i plan to start studying sabre this year, the only and easiest treatise i have available is obviously huttons cold steel which im liking, BUT where can i find a german sabre treatise??? translated or not i dont mind, main reason is A. i can speak german and B though im in australia my family is largely from hamburg/northern europe so i kind of like studying what was popular where my family were at for the mostpart.
So i started with german longsword (also because that was the closest club) ive expanded to fabris rapier which was popular in hamburg, denmark, north germany etc and influenced the traditions, but where am i going to find a german sabre manual????
sorry for rant :) keep making vids Matt their great and also props to being on some history shows i saw you on what was it umm ancient assassins? was good, got a smile seeing you there :) peace all!
look for F.C. Christmanns Hau-und-Stoßfechten from 1838!
German French British start using sabre about two hundred years later. I believe sabre come up to Poland from Hungary in numbers for first time and staying there till September 1939. Sadly true is that today we do not have original polish sources how to use it. Still legend will live on and on
>other Northern European military sabre traditions
>doesn't mention Swedish sabre.
Matt pls... :'(
Any treatises for Swedish sabre? It sounds interesting
Isn't Polish sabre practice mostly in Poland? Is it that popular in other parts of Europe?
Also, if there is very little information about it all research and reconstruction is more valuable and needed than practising styles than are well documented and known?
Hello Mr. Easton, I would really like to learn about other saber fencing styles! Can you provide some links online about the existing saber fencing treatises of other countries (British, French, German - anything other than polish really)? Frankly I'll admit that I've only been vaguely aware that other countries used sabers as a cavalry weapon but I was not aware that they had complex traditions and styles to them, so this is a really cool discovery.
P.S.
What are some general differences between the different saber fencing styles of the different countries? What is your favorite saber style?
I'd love to see a video from you talking about the broad differences between the different styles of sabre by country. What the various countries' philosophies were in regards to sabre fighting. Cheers.
It was a slight rant, Matt. But I understand your point of the video. Most of my limited HEMA experience has been German Longsword (Letchaur, spelled wrong I know). My club just started a sabre night for both British Military Sabre (Hutton) and Polish, which I have now done some of both and see some similarities, and difference between the two systems. Maybe, not one of your best videos, in my opinion, but again I understand your point.
Ben Trieschmann ah but the point is that "polish sabre" style is just made up for the most part and could be radically different to how it was used. its less hema and more modern, based strongly on individual trainers experience with other sabre/sword styles.
Is it though? There are two treatises strong enough (though not early enough) to matter. There are multiple depictions of fighting styles used in Poland, Lithuania and Hungary as well, which helps decoding the stances and cuts used. Not all of them are accurate.
Nothing as comprehensive or nicely illustrated as medieval manuscripts or even Hutton's manuals, but good enough. There's a lot of work and research to be done.
(May I remind you that Hutton did reconstructive work still, based on Silver and Marozzo. It's not a clean old sabre style either.)
+scholagladiatoria
Hey schola, since you mentioned it may you please make a video explaining the differences and traits between the different saber traditions? I mean, you get tot talk about context and we all know how you love context :D
Thanks you for your time and for the knowledge. Cheers
Hi Matt, What the French military saber treatises you are mentioning exist out there?
If you go to the Schola Forum, there is a treatise database - look in the 19th century section.
The two swords behind you at the top, what are the rounded parts at the end of the scabbards?
ArghBid I believe they are called 'Chappes', at least on medieval swords.
ArghBid Drag?
A protective metal covering on a sheaths/scabbards tip is called a 'chape'. There is often extra extensions on chapes on both leather and metal scabbards ( such as the flattened protruding, rounded, flanges you identify on the top two scabbards) to give enhanced protection from wear - these extensions are referred to as a 'drag', or 'shoe'.
Ahh thank you everyone, I've always wondered what they were
1:50 What about german longsword? Italian longsword? Many Rapier styles?
When you say Italian longsword, which lineage do you mean? Fiore? Vadi? Marozzo? Dardi? Same for German - which lineages?
When i say italian longsword i mean all lineages from italy. Idk if you understood my comment. I meant that there are many other hema branches based and different nations and masters that are more popular than polish sabre. You want more sword styles to be popular in hema based on other nations and treatises while you yourself teach (i dont remember correctly) but i think you said you teach fiorre and tah hoffer. Polish saber isnt going to replace all of other hema styles.
Poland loves you too.
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here:
ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Matt you used to have i think a short sword half way up your wall, what was that and how much would that cost?
where'd you get that shirt? its pretty cool
People like Poslish Sabre for the same reason people like Pololish Sausage :)
Would you not say that the majority of pre 16th century systems are in some sense re-constructive because so much of the early material relies on interpretation and many of the core principles of even heavily studied and complete treatises, e.g. Fiore, Ringeck, i.33 are still debated among HEMA practitioners due to difficulties of language, idiom and the way these books were written?
Pre-1501? Many treatises from before 1501 contain a lot of detail - compared to zero detail about Polish sabre in that period, as far as I'm aware. When we're able to agree with basically every other Fiore group about how to do 95% of the techniques from his treatises, I think that's a pretty high degree of information transfer and convergence. If we get into the 16th century then things like Meyer and Marozzo are absolutely massive - so much so that I don't know anybody doing all of Marozzo for example. It's just got so much content.
Where do you find those treaties? I try to find some german ones for some time now and i cannot find any. Maybe i'm not looking in the right places. They don't have to be in german, english would be fine.
Look at the treatise database on the Schola Forum for post-1600 sources and Wiktenauer for pre-1600 sources.
Thanks a lot!
One of the cool things about saber is that most countries have their systems and masters! France, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Germany, Russia... It's a shame everyone does the same thing - whether it's polish or british! It's not like longsword when you have to go german or italian.
Hey Matt you said that you also study german military saber. I as a german am really interested in this topic but can hardly find any sources... Where do you found yours and could you provide some for me?
Many thanks and greetings!
F.c. christmann 1838
Matt Easton please do a video or book on Slavic swordsmen and martial arts.
Why stop there? He should do a trilogy of movies of course.
by martial arts you mean the sacred art of squating?
There is no treatise on the use of combat Adidas either, though.
0hn0haha there it's a closely-guarded secret. all I know is that it's called "Tri Poloski".
Can I have a link to the diagram in the thumbnail? Cheers.
Polish saber's popularity might be partially due to how awesome purple heart armory's synthetic Polish saber is. I wish I was swinging mine around right now.
Yes, but do those other ways have a thumb ring? I think that that is the sole reason people are interested in polish sabre.
Cuz it has a thumb ring.
Walloon swords, also known as spadroons in Britain (no, not that kind of spadroon) also have thumb rings and offer better hand protection than the polish sabre. The authors of several British 18th century treatises considered these to be the best sword for defense and an ideal compromise between the old highland basket-hilted broadsword and the french smallsword.
lancer D Meuh spodroon iz behest waipun
Thumb ring may be on sabre used in Poland but don't have to. Also such thing as "polish sabre" don't exist. There was many types of sabres used in Poland but none was called "polish sabre".
szabla husarska(to some extend modified type II hungarian saber)
karabela
szabla węgiersko-polska(hungariam-polish)
szabla ormiańska(armenian)
szabla ormianska futher go to:
czeczuga
smyczek
ordynka
karabela ormiańska(armenian karabel)
Kościuszkowska
Batorówka
Zygmuntówka
Janówka
saber wz. 34(wz. mean wzór which translate to pattern/model end number usually is year(or at least two last digits of year))
saber wz. 1971
saber wz. 1976
saber wz. 1934/2002
End many more.
Czorńy Lisek I like how you're taking it seriously, it's so cute.
I'M TRYING TO BE A TROLL HERE GUYS
No but really, good info, thanks
if you're getting hit in the hand when using polish saber, you're either trying to:
guard with it - stop that, there are no guards in polish saber
bend your elbow- this will put your hand on danger
not raising the blade enough when you are going for a cut- this will put your hand in danger.
i use a shashka for polish saber, the top edge of my grip has been hit a few times, but never my hand, even during drills where the opponent specifically tries to hit the hand.
Nice jumper. Did you get it in the sales?
Thanks - no, for Christmas.
What are, say, your top five "treatises available but not practiced" disciplines?
could you do a video on other sabre treaties people could study?
Matt how about you pick your idea of the best British cavalry sabre of the 19th Century and the best British Infantry officers sword of the 19th Century, as a fighting sword?
Polish Sabre vs Japanese Katana
WHO WOULD END THE OTHER RIGHTLY?
This is a trick question, since neither have pommels!
you cant compare 1 handed sword with 2 handed sword
moje konto 20000031231232423424242 why not?
sabre is not a sword...
All European sabres looks same to me. What is difference between polish sabre and a german sabre? Wouldn't german books also apply to polish sabres?
Radimkiller Possibly. Although the swords may be the same, the fighting styles aren't necessarily. Using a 15th century example, German longsword and Italian longsword have somewhat different guards.
AFAIK polish sabres were quite a bit different from western military sabers. I believe later military sabers became more similar to them though. You can spot eastern european sabres when looking at the guard or the thumb ring.
I think that they were handled fundamentally the same, but the foot work and guards might have been a bit different (and preference of cuts/parries...). Moreover, the use of the ring (on some sabres) must have some impact too, but I don't know enough to speculate how.
19th century sabre uses almost totally linear footwork and the hand is kept forward, while Polish sabre, being an earlier style, has more passing footwork and the hand is often kept retracted.
Ranziel1 Like Medieval or Renaissance one-handed systems?
German and Polish sabres are definitely different. But german sabre was definitely influenced by polish. Especially after Saxony entered personal union with Poland.
Hello Matt do you know something about swiss saber manuals?
Thanks!
Do you know if there any surviving treatises or any modern attempts being made to reconstruct two-handed claymore combat?
I just started studying Henry Charles Angelo's British infantry saber. Very interesting and engrossing material, and the rest of the guys at Texas Armizare are keen to learn, just wanted to say thank you for making it available!
Can someone identify that sabre hanging vertically to Matt's left? It's a beauty.
It's a British artillery officer's sword from 1859.
So with that said, are there any American military saber manuals and traditions that people could learn?
Is German Schlager/Academic fencing part of HEMA or is it its own separate sport?
HEMA is anything historical, European and a martial art, so yes it is.
(there are subtitles) he is saying that fighting without gloves will give the fencer more freedom to do few circular techniques . different perspective.
Does anyone know much about english longsword? A hema club near me specialises in it but i dont see much discussion about it.
Matt,
I'm certainly no expert but I heard this statement about Polish Saber recently. Perhaps you can comment. I paraphrase:
"Polish Saber techniques were for Aristocrats to settle affairs of Honor. First Blood was sufficient. Killing your client or cutting his sword arm off would cause far more headaches than it was worth.
Ergo Polish Saber is less than a pure martial art where presumably the objective is:
"Kill! Kill!! KILL!!!"
…..RVM45
Preach!
It's weird how this sort of thing takes off. Like Polish winged hussars Vs normal hussars. Historically we don't know that much about them, like whether or not they really did have wings even, and yet winged hussars own the internet while normal light cavalry hussars have such a massive historical footprint that it makes the winged kind look like "ancient aliens" by comparrison.
oooh what are some of these german millitary saber treaties
On question how many of british french german etc. saber treatises come from xvii century? So far it seems all of them are from xviii or even xix centuries so there you have it
There are several very large and detailed treatises from 17thC England and Germany.
Cool to get a response! Could you give some examples of xvii century treatises of saber fencing? The most sources you seem to refer to are xviii and xix century ones.
Sabres were barely used in 17thC England and Germany, so they are all on the use of the rapier, backsword and broadsword (that I know of).
scholagladiatoria so i was right after all.
And there are at least two known treatises on Polish cross cutting art from the 19th century so...
Damn Lindy Beige really flipped his shit on this one lol
I can see how that could be irritating as someone interested in the history and tradition of the thing. I think most people just want an effective and versatile system (we're competitive that way).
I'm really arguing for learning ALL of it lol
What advice would you give to someone who is having a hard time finding ways to study treatises?
best regards from Poland, cheers!
Speaking of other saber systems, does anyone know of any good American Military saber sources?
I recently picked up a Spanish Sabre Treatise from 1862, it is a very nice read, very heavy on foot work.
szabla is a cool looking word and the lack of sources is what adds to its popularity, its mysterious! I heard that if you use real polish saber technique and have perfect form your opponents defenses are overwhelmed with the largest cavalry charge in history!
The Polish sabre was very dangerous cause enabled using special techniques which were not possible using straight sabres or profiled in other way, even katana. The success of this sabre confirmed practice and history. For example, it was used by Polish winged-hussars (e.g. at Vienna 1683) which were undefeated during period of 125 years ! It was like now bomb A military formation.
Polish saber is the katana of historical saber. There, I said it. There's an aura of mystery and bad-assed-ness surrounding it.
It is funny for me when I see the "Polish sabre - szabla" term, like the "szabla" was some name for that weapon. No, the word "szabla" in Poland means just a sabre, any kind really. It is equal to the word sabre.
And even when you say "Polish sabre" (or "polska szabla" / "szabla polska" in Poland) it is still too generous term, because in Poland many types of sabers was used from 15th to 20th century.
People also use the German word "Messer" as if it's a technical term when it literally just means "knife". These things happen I guess, it's a useful shorthand.
there were different types of sabres that distinctly different from each other e.g. Karabela (a saber used by szlachte nobles commonly and have eagle shaped Handles i dont how to call them in english. anyway theres many various types of sabres Batorowka, Wisniowiecka, Kontuszowa etc.
As someone who does british military sabre and silvers broadsword, AND polish sabre, I agree on all points. I wish we hard extant manuals, it would make things to much simpler.
Although for me its less about marsden and his book (which I do have, and is good) and more about personal family history etc. Either way I'd be inclined to say studying middles eastern and indian swordsmanship would likely be useful for any practicioner of polish sabre, seeing as the indian styles and the turkish styles were reportedly similar to the polish ones, but more of the tradition has survived. Sadly, I know no one who teaches it.
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here:
ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
I am polish, and love your videos, including this one:) keep up a good work:)
Good film. The oldest instructions about the Polish saber fight from the beginning of the 19th century are here:
ua-cam.com/video/S8SauT2DfuY/v-deo.html
Not trying to throw shade. The sentiment is fine if the only thing you're after is a perfect reproduction of martial arts that lost their relevance centuries ago, but it kinda misses another piece of what draws people to HEMA in the first place, cultural identity, whether that's European or national.
Complaining about something like this feels like a back-handed way of saying that anything without a treatise is illegitimate, and that their energy is better spent on more legitimate treatises. Maybe they should have another term invented to describe it, like FEMA, Fake European Martial Arts.
I think The energy associated the study and reconstruction of traditions that don't have extant historical treaties is fine, and helps expand the HEMA community in the long run.
Gives more people a way to connect culturally with the groups they identify with, and helps build a larger community. Take the example you focus on, Polish sabre, only historical tid-bits a bit of borrowing from the Germans, and no full treatises, but I'd argue who gives a crap? So long as people get to practice a martial art they enjoy, and it's functional within the larger group, the sourcing shouldn't matter.
Hell, considering the dipping into German texts for the example you cited, they're already studying a treatise based on reality. These techniques didn't exist in a vacuum, so there probably was quite a bit of borrowing going on anyway.
Your gesticulation with a sword in hand in hand makes me really nervous. I'm wating for the video explaining why there's a hole in the wall...
Hema is cool, and its very specific. My one thing is that there is no Hma scene that I can find, I wish they would let non-European Hma into Hema or somehow make another scene which would be a lot more work. You even mentioned Indian sword fighting, which isn’t European. There is so much cool historical sword fighting and martial arts across the world, I just wish it was broadened more.