Is It Safe To Dry Fire A Rifle
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2020
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - Спорт
Dry firing is especially important in training these days thanks to the ammo shortage.
R32R38 Training for what?
Crazy Canuck I’m guessing to shoot better 😂
@@ninjasquirrels he must be such a good marksman that he doesn’t need to practice
Liberty Or Death in all fairness, dry practice IS good and it’ll ultimately make you a better shot - I do it at home all the time 🤷🏼♂️
@@ninjasquirrels as do I
Wonderful video Ron! Excellent instruction. I learned something here and will try this myself. Thanks!
Excellent video. Ron has a gift for teaching!
I've been on the journey from bird hunting using shotguns to hunting with rifles and it's challenging to break shotgun habits. They look alike but the way we handle them is very different. Best of luck going forward you in great hands to learn from!
In the Marines we had a snap in period at painted whit barrels, with black marks. We learned trigger control by dry firing against our flag safety, for hours and hours. It’s amazing what it does to your accuracy.
Good video on starting basics. I know a lot of “experienced” shooters at my club who would improve if they did this. Have a great weekend Ron.
Great podcast. Keep up the good work. God bless you Ron.
Thank Ron for a very instructive video!
Good video Ron, Merry Christmas!
great training, Thank you.
Was always a bird hunter, kept trying rifle and couldn't get the hang of it. I had then started archery which really slowed thing down for me, that it actually helped me understand shooting the rifle.
I started dry firing my rifles mainly to help me relax and be more aware of anticipation.
I started watching Biathlon as well and they are amazing after cross country skiing a loop shooting 50m prone at a target the size of a silver dollar, then do another loop and shoot standing 50m target the size of a CD no rest.
Great video! The tip concerning eyes is often overlooked. Rhythmical, controlled breathing is also a must. An obvious point, maybe, but many folks instinctively hold their breath when aiming, which only serves to cause the body to wobble and the eyes to glaze. Accuracy needs oxygen.
I appreciate the tutorial. I'm decent shooting off the bench, but weak in any other position. 1 question: Isn't dry firing a rimfire going to damage it?
Some rimfire's, especially older ones, should not be dry fired, but most modern ones can be dry fired. To be perfectly safe, consult the manufacturer of your 22 rf.
Or get snap caps, if they are made for rim fire rifles, as they are for centre fires.
This video is amazing. Ty.
So fewer of you have to read thorugh all the comments to find my answers to the "don't dry fire a 22 rimfire" warning, know that many, if not most, modern rimfires are built with some sort of firing pint travel limiter to prevent the pin face from striking the breech rim. The limiter might be a cross bar or pin or a flange built around the pin itself. Some older 22s do not have this, so if you're concerned, consult with the manufacturer. Modern Ruger 10/22s can be safely dry fired.
Would a snap cap be helpful?
@@gregdorey3394 Can't hurt, but not necessary with most rifles. Some older 22 rimfires and a very few modern ones do not have a firing pin travel limiter, meaning the face of the pin could strike the back of the barrel (breech, chamber edge,) but most have a heavy-duty mechanism to stop pin travel short of this. Consult with manufacturer for details.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron. I appreciate your response. Have a great day.
I will often save a spent case for this purpose. No need to spend on a snap cap unless you are testing firing pin functionality in the event of light primer strikes. If you have concerns about firing pin breakage used brass is a cheap and safe solution to catch the pin.
@@hammerheadms I don't know if fired brass would be effective, Garth. The pre-dented primer has already been pushed to the firing pin's limit. It might have been pushed back a tiny amount from the chamber pressure, but I question whether there's enough resistance there to absorb pin energy. I doubt it. Pin travel is generally stopped by a larger diameter of the pin inside the bolt body catching against another heavy-duty section of the bolt body. This is why headspacing is critical for ignition. Were the pin free to travel until it met resistance, it would reach primers much farther from the bolt face.
awesome video Ron! Showing my buddies how a pro does it.
Talk soon I Hope... :)
Another great video !
Great content!
Hmmmm, ok, interesting approach that Ron is utilizing here none the less I really like watching . listening to Ron's videos as he has some very good material.
Cool, thanks
Hey Ron
I enjoyed the video, thanks...
Had a question about a used Remington model seven in 308 Winchester I purchased. The rifle is a 1993, with a walnut stock 13.25" LOP, 18.5" barrel. I scoped it with a older Redfield frontier 4x which feels and looks will balanced and appropriate. My question is at 6'2" with proportionate arm length, should I be concerned with the short LOP? I love the feel, and idea of toting a light weight gun in the mountains. I have not shot at the range or in field, but don't want to have issues, or delvelop poor habits. Should I think about extending the stock? I know you are a compact rifle enthusiast, and I value your input, so what do you think?
Ken
Shooting off a rest...Focus on the reticle, steady pressure on the trigger, follow thru. With center-fire rifles, at the range I focus on 5 perfect dry fires before taking each live round shoot. Focus on the reticle, did the cross hair move slightly left or right on follow through after dry fire trigger break? Continue dry fire until you can get 5 perfect dry fires in a row, then take a live fire shot. Dry fire can damage rimfires such as .22 lr ...
What make and model rifle is the young lady shooting? Good looking rifle
Good stuff
This drives my wife nuts. Live ammo will be locked safely away, but she will still worry about me shooting holes in a wall.😂
Have HER check, re-check, then check again that it's safe.
If she still says no, go out to the garage, barn, south 40, whatever.
Respect her wishes.
Respect is a two way street ...
Because unloaded guns seem to fire way too often.
It drives my wife crazy too, but it's not any safety concern, it's the hearing all the "snap" and "clack" of the hammer/striker falling, then me working the action. It's all Zen to me, but I definitely can't do it when she's within earshot, haha.
How many people have been killed by an "empty" gun!
Thank you
Ron, it’s a bad idea to dry fire .22 lr rifles because they are rim fire. It will mess up the firing pin.
Only on some models, derekkt. Even the newer Ruger 10/22s can now be dry fired safely. Consult the manufacturer for specifics.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Good stuff Ron, thanks for the info.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Just a note here Ron on the 10/22 and dry firing them. Yes, there is a pin and slot the stops the firing pin from contacting the breach face; however, the slot, after time, will elongate and the firing pin will get into the breach face and dent the chamber. It is not the end of the world, a gunsmith can ream out the chamber opening and a new firing pin is cheap enough. The 10/22 is a Bentz Chamber and is massive in size compared to a bolt or target chamber for a .22 - so it will be pinging the breach face for a minute before the rounds start having a problem feeding. With kids and I shooting a lot at one point in my life, I managed to do this in about 13 or 14 months on a new rifle. My guess is this rifle had 15,000+ rounds through it. Could it have been a soft firing pin - I don't know, there were no aftermarket parts back then.
Funny side to the story - I have never had children and I was the only one in our group to first own a 10/22. I never said no, and the kids loved the 10/22 - and it was not the only .22 I owned, so I bought a bunch of .22 ammo that year....
i was taught not to dry fire, especially with rim fire or antique guns. with that said you can get snap caps, which i think is the way to go, some old timers use a case that has already been fired, this cushions the firing pin, preventing breakage or mushrooming. read your owners manual and see if the makers of this gun recommends dry firing.
Ron thank for this video and all videos! all your videos on hunt ar great! (for whose see this video: almost all new 22 rifles allows dry fire! old ones might not, why not? relpy and Ron sure ill asnwer you... well him or me)
I bought a new Ruger SR22 .22lr. The manual says that it is safe to dry fire. However, after a couple of weeks of dry fire practice, the firing pin broke. Ruger paid shipping both ways and fixed it. But, now I do not dry fire it. Or, if I do want to dry fire, I put a #4-6 X7/8 drywall anchor into the breach.
Hope you have better luck than I with the SR22. I hated mine.
Darned good video.
God video Ron! Jess is a classy lady!
She's a patient and effective dog trainer, too. And soon after our training sessions, she shot her first deer at something like 270 yards!
I agree with everything you have mentioned in this video with one caveat: I would prefer using a centerfire rifle. I have an old Remington .22 LR single shot bolt action (Circa 1952) with the original Iron sights and it shoots far better than I can hold. It's only downside is that, because we dry-fired it so many times, the firing pin striking the edge of the chamber housing, (the part that acts like an anvil helping the firing crush the hollow rim of the cartridge, setting off the primer) without rim to protect things means the chamber, firing pin and the inside of the chamber housing all get distorted and create problems. This sweet shooting little rifle now refuses to eject about 1 out of every 10 cartridges, then you get to pry that empty out with a multi-tool. No fun! I bought the gun used for $10 to teach my 8 year old how to shoot.
The stock was worn and heavily scratched and the blueing kind of looked like a pinto pony from rust spots, but the inside of the barrel, action and trigger looked like new. I thought i' would do a quickie stock refinish using sandpaper and lin-speed finish but when I removed the finish from the Remington "Hardwood" stock, I discovered it was a nicely figured walnut stock and so my "overnight " stock refinishing and spot blueing job took 3 months to complete. Every time I take it to the range and take it out of the velvet lined wooden case (A good friend and expert cabinet maker made it after seeing the gun) folks just come running over. Then when the first 5 shot group out of the gun drops into a ragged hole at 25 yards, their eyes really open.
I have already mentioned the sour part of all this. I have already discussed repairing the gun with 4 different master gunsmiths and they all agree that dry-firing was the culprit in all of this and they tell me that to repair it properly involves removing the barrel, re-chambering it and taking off about 1 thread of but all said they couldn't guarantee that it would shoot as well as it does now. Somehow, spending $5-600 to get a normal shooter just doesn't light my fire or float my boat.
ONLY dry fire rimfirres if you have snap caps. If you must (and I absolutely recommend it) dry fire centerfire firearms! Usually it will not harm the gun, but if it does it means a fireing pin breakage and that is a LOT easier to deal with. You don't usually need a lot of talent to take a bolt apart except on some older Mausers, but that is another story.
Thank you...Thank you...dry firing a 22 just shows a person don't know what's going on at the mouth of the chamber...😵 😩
You can dry fire lots of modern rim fire 22’s
Good job
Also breathing control
5:00 Maybe Ron is doing the same sound to the Deer 🦌 before he shoots.
Unfortunately, it isn't. Many rifles have firing pins that simply won't endure extensive dry firing, and I know from replacing a few. Even bolt guns, like the Savage 110, are susceptible to damage. Others are the Remington 760, the Marlin 336, and Savage 1899. Even revolvers with stout, fixed pins, like the first generation Colt SAA, will crystallize and break the pin with repeated drops on empty cylinders. The only rifles I feel comfortable dropping the pin on an empty chamber are my Remington 700s. Everything else, I use snap caps.
RON? About THAT DRY FIRING the .22 LR RIMFIRE;: A lot of us have heard “the firing pin/bolt design isn’t supposed to be able to handle dry firing”? Not a ‘floating pin” design maybe, as in a center fire-type rifle? Good info/instruction as always Ron (ha, .22 cal USED TO BE inexpensive AND available..HOW times have changes).
Some great advice on your vids Ron! Thanks very much. One thing though, how much bourbon do you have to drink to get that voice? Love it ;-)
Ron, you should have taught Jess to use the sling for better support.
Absolutely, but we'll get to that in later lessons. What I should have done was remove sling.
Great advice and technique. But, dry firing a .22? I always heard that is a no-no.
I’ve always been told not to dry fire 22 rifles and pistols. Old wives’ tale? Perry Pappous
yup
I have often heard that dry-firing a centerfire can "throw the firing pin" or even break it. Also, for rifles with little to no recoil, I find it steadier offhand to not grip the forend at all. Brace your upper arm and elbow against your torso and allow the forend to lay on top of your open hand. The hand on which the forend rests should be open, fingers together, and in line with the forearm - as if you were showing a person in front of you a tiny object and didn't want to obstruct it with your fingers. You are right, though; learning to use improvised rests in the field beats great offhand technique in pretty much all situations - with the exception of jump-hunting (scaring animals in heavy cover and shooting at them while they run off).
I started shooting when I was about 6.....I’m 43 now.....my dad always said don’t dry fire. I never questioned it because he was in the military and has killed as many deer as anyone and has been hunting his whole life..... It never made sense to me why you couldn’t so this is an interesting rebuttal to what I have always known. Interesting 🤨
Jess needs to lean head forward on stock. She has head straight up maybe slightly back. Probably has only partial view through scope. ( She should probably use shorter lighter 10/22, she wants to lean back to help offset weight of rifle)
Phisha, the "head forward" lean is not mandatory. Many shoot comfortably and well with straight up head position. One does need to adjust scope position to get a full view without edge blackout (proper positioning to match the eye relief distance build into the scope, usually 3 to 4 inches.)
Need to say something about finding your natural point. After finding your natural point of aim - then adjust for it.
Ron, you stress having both eyes open. I am blind in my right eye - shot left handed - any suggestions or observations for me. I have been blind since birth and have no sensation in my eye my depth perception is quite good. I did a lot of shooting when I was younger but now I am older and retaking up the sport. Love your videos - you make it easy to follow. Thank you. Mike
No Snap Caps? Rim fire firing pins can touch the back end of the chamber of the rifle leaving a mark that will grow and become a pinch into the chamber eventually. The rifle the girl is using has a butt stock that is too long for her, she needs a shorter length of pull. Great Skills being taught, Shotgun trigger control is a lot different then rifle trigger control.
I'm sorry but you should always shoot using your dominant eye. I learned that when my vision changed due to m.s. my right eye was dominant but optic neuritis caused My left eye dominant I could not adjust my sights far enough to compensate. I had to learn to shoot left handed. Also helped a friend with the same sorta thing. Thanks for all the great videos. Keep shooting straight.
Hi Ron my uncle as he was a roo shoot all ways told me not too dry fire a gun at all as it not good for your bolt
What about stance and using the slang as a brace
I learned how to shoot rifles from the booklet I got with my BB gun.
Dry fire a center fire rifle ? Yes. Rim fire rifle. No!
I was always told that dry firing a rimfire was a no-no.
I too, Tommy, but most modern 22s, or at least a lot of them, include a firing pin stop mechanism so you can safely dry fire. Consult your manufacturer.
I still won’t do it.
Like others have already mentioned, I was always told 'you never dry fire a rimfire because the firing pin will take a beating from the receiver'. Period. End of story. Why not just give them an empty, fired case or two to give the pin something to impact besides the steel of the receiver?
I have just checked some of the other replies and I should have known you'd have an answer. I withdraw my complaint since it is covered elsewhere! Merry Christmas, folks
You can purchase dry fire rounds for virtually any caliber for practice. I would never dry fire a rim fire as the firing pin will hit the side of the chamber causing deformation. 22 ammo is cheap . Why not use the real live stuff and have fun.
They should swap rifles. Ditch sling, as you said.
Jess went into a better stance of balance at her second shot.
Muscle memory will develop with repetative CORRECT practice.
How about wild hog hunting in South Arkansas
Like they say experience comes from equipment screwed up.
I learnt to shoot living on a farm in S Africa ..Bare foot and with a .303 open sights ..We can shoot and dont like these 6-40 x 56 illuminating scopes mounted on a Weathery 340 Hiroshima magnum ...Makes us laugh
Im using a sporter 303 british no4mk1 and it has the 300 and 600 flip aperature sights.
You don’t want to dry fire a rim fire center fire is fine. Don’t do it with your rim fire it can damage your chamber
Always told not to dry fire a rimfire, can damage firing pin. Is this fact or myth.
Fact with some older 22 rimfires. Not a problem with most new ones, including newer Ruger 10/22s. I suggest you consult with manufacturer for your specific rifle.
it’s a bad idea to dry fire bye bye to the firing pin.
I thought dry firing a rimfire was bad for the firing pin?
Call your shots.
How do I know if a shotgun fits me ?
There is better (and more accurate) info out there, but what you can do is make an "L" with your arm that has the trigger finger (think "Robot Dance" to make the L shape with your arm). If you can put the butt of the shotgun on the inside of your elbow and comfortably reach the trigger with your arm along the buttstock, the length of pull is ok (stock is not too long or too short).
When you mount the shotgun to your shoulder pocket, I *believe* you want to be looking directly down the ramp with your eye fairly level with the ramp (vs slightly above the ramp), but I am not sure. If you have a turkey gun, you can see how close you are to aligning the middle bead and the front bead to each other when bringing the shotgun up and making ready to shoot. Main thing is to have the same sight picture and the same position of the shotgun in your shoulder pocket each time you mount it (putting it in your shoulder pocket between your chest and your arm and looking down the sights)
Hope that helps. Cobbled it together from a few years worth of fuzzy memories.
-L
Liddell, this is a somewhat complicated procedure best handled by a professional fitter who will have you shoot several rounds at a patterning plate to determine where your gun points. Butt stock shape and position mainly determine this. Stock cast on or off and comb height are the main determiners. A quick shorthand trick is to focus on an object, say a door knob. Then close your eyes, raise your gun into shooting position, keep it there, open your eyes (both) and see where the barrel is pointing. Repeat often until you get a general reading such as "I'm always left of the knob," or "The knob is always below my aim." A gun fitter will adjust the butt until it's position against your face results in the barrel pointing where you are looking. Consistent gun mounting and placement are key.
For a hunting shotgun, practice throwing it to your shoulder (with the chamber(s) empty) and swinging on a potential target. The butt stock should find the pit of your shoulder pretty much on its own; with your gaze parallel to, and slightly above, the top center of the barrel. It should not come to rest on your arm, nor bounce off your cheek. The forearm and trigger should both be of comfortable reach, and the buttpad or plate should make complete (or nearly complete) contact with your shoulder. You also want to try this with your most commonly worn hunting jacket/coveralls on, since this can make a big difference, as well.
Another trick is to tape a straw on the shotgun's rib. Close your eyes, mount the shotgun. If you can see thru the straw it's pointing where you're looking anyways. Other than that you want a length of pull that puts your nose about two or three finger widths from your trigger hand when you're holding the gun.
What about dry firing ruining a rifle .... any truth to that ?
No with center fire such as 30 06, yes with rimfire such as .22 lr.
Perhaps snap-caps ...or a spent shell? I prefer the better quality metal or hard plastic caps with the soft pad insets to the monolothic soft plastic ones.
Most modern rimfires and virtually all modern centerfires can be safely dry fired. Some rimfires and many older ones didn't have a firing pin travel stop built in, so dry firing would slam the head of the pin against the rim of the barrel breech, damaging it or the firing pin itself. By putting an enlarged "barrel" or flange on the main firing pin body behind the head, it can/will stop forward progress against another hefty part of the bolt body. Thus, no impact between the pin head and barrel breech. Sorry for the poorly worded explanation. To be perfectly safe, consult your gun's manual or the manufacturer.
Ahh, I wondered. My Ruger says "no problem", but my imported dbl-barrel shotgun's Mfr. recommends "minimal dry-firing".
@@tedb.5707 Yes, double barrel shotguns are different. Best to not dry fire those. Snap caps.
Air rifle. Cheap ammo and no shortage and you can literally carry thousands of shots in your pockets if you chose to.
You should not dry fire a rimfire gun. Most of them the firing pin is long enough to hit the edge of the chamber and you will damage either the chamber or the firing pin over time. Unless you know the pin does not hit the chamber on your particular rifle use a snap cap or even just a spend case. I learned that the hard way as the gunsmith that repaired my gun told me about this. Even some centerfire guns can be sensitive to dryfiring, the pin can be glass hard and dont cope well with the sudden stop at the end of the free travel. A primer is relatively soft compared to the hard stop at the end of travel on an empty chamber.
I like youre movies,, but in general they take too long to describe something obvious
With my hunting rifles dry firing in never OK! Dry fire a Tikka T3 multiple times and the firing pin will bend! I've seen 2 bent by a buddy who loves to dry Fire! Use snap caps or dummy rounds!
That chick is making me uncomfortable and I'm not even standing next to her. She looks like she's ready to hurt somebody
Yuck Foutube yeah I was trying not to use a pejorative. Plus she gives me tingles in my no-no place.
Did you say leave both eyes open with a scope?? And i thought if the pin hit nothing the kinetic energy would finally break the pin
Most modern rifle firing pins include an enlarged contact point on the shaft machined to stop forward progress at just the right distance to hit and ignite the primer. Think of a dual diameter rod or pin. The narrowest part at the tip slides through the bolt face to hit the primer. The fatter part behind it slams against a matching rim/wall within the bolt body. Safe to dry fire all but a select few firearms. Check with manufacturer to be doubly sure.