The HALF-ELVEN & The Gift of Men | The Choice of ELROND & ELROS | Middle-Earth Lore
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Today we bring you the discussion of just what it meant to be Half-elven in the world of Middle-earth, and how, after Earendil and Elwing it meant a choice of what life you may live. The life of the Eldar, immortality! OR, receive the 'Gift of Men'.
Please join in the discussion down in the comment section!
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Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
1:36 - Who Was Given The Choice?
5:48 - The Extended Mortal Life Given
7:20 - The Journey to the Choice
11:08 - The Early Childhoods of Elrond & Elros
13:28 - Elrond the High King?
15:57 - Round-up Conclusion
17:22 - QotD & Thank you’s!
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A massive shout out to Brandon for penning the script for this video! bratya_nobles
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"Elrond & Elros" - The Broken Sword
Art in order of first appearance:
Elven Hall - Turner Mohan
The Halls of Mandos - ralphdamiani
Gate of the Noldor - jonathanguzi
Sauron Bows Submits to Ar-Pharazon - KipRasmussen
Elrond and Elros sketch - Kinko-White
Eru Iluvatar - Mithgaraf
J.R.R.Tolkien Tribute - Ivan Cavini
Elwing and Earendil - Alberto Dal Lago
Elrond & Elros Tar-Minyatur - (Unknown)
Armenelos - ralphdamiani
Armenelos - Skullb*stard
Elendil the Faithful - Libra1010
Across Middle-Earth - Rivendell - ralphdamiani
Middle Earth - Klaradox
The Last High King and His Herald - MellorianJ
Rivendell - Ivan Cavini
Elrond - alystraea
The Witch-King of Angmar - William Faucher
Glorfindel. Before The Storm. - Venlian
Earnil II, King of Gondor - YoritomoDaishogun
Cirdan - sstefiart
Arwen and Aragorn - Matthew Stewart
Elrond and Celebrian - MellorianJ
Father and Daughter - MellorianJ
Sons of Elrond - BenNewton
Elladan and Elrohir - SaraMorelloart
For Maglor Took Pity On Them - AlystraeaArt
New Star (Part 2) - alystraea
Elrond and Gil-galad - navy-locked
Feanorions (Worlds of Resonance) - AlystraeaArt
Father and Sons - MellorianJ
Elladan - Magali Villeneuve
Elrohir - Magali Villeneuve
Celebrian - kagalin
Elross (Unknown)
The Lord of Imladris - MellorianJ
Lord of Rivendell - Kinko-White
Lord of the Rings - Elrond - Hokunin
Vault of the Stars - MellorianJ
Until the World is Broken and Remade - JennyDolfen
Celebrian's Pain - MellorianJ
Portrait Of Elros Tar Minyatur - Mellorianj
twins of star - JaneDoemmmmm
destiny - ilxwing
Elrond in Armor - MellorianJ
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#LordoftheRingsLore #Elrond #Elros - Розваги
Elrond's story is a tale of profound and repeated loss: -
1. He lost both his parents to their mission to Valinor (from whence they could not returned), effectively orphaned along with his twin brother as infants
2. He lost his beloved twin brother to the Gift of Men
3. He lost his foster-father to the Oath of Feanor and the Curse of Mandos
4. He lost his beloved wife to the after-effects of Orc torture, and thus to Valinor (although I hope they were re-united when he also went there)
5. He lost his High King to Sauron (and chose to "lose" the High Kingship of the Noldor himself)
6. He lost his only beloved daughter to Aragorn and thus to the Gift of Men
7. He lost his sons, at least for a while, to Middle Earth (I hope they travelled afterwards to him after Arwen passed away - I like to think that's the only reason they didn't go with him)
8. He lost the power of Vilya, and of course his long home in Rivendell - but went to Valinor himself
But he gave life too: not only to Frodo, whom he healed, but to the heirs of Elros whom he fostered and ultimately to the next High King of Men, Eldarion his grandson and to _his_ heirs also.
If only they could have expanded on this in the movie trilogy, It would have given more context to his character, and relationship to his daughter.
The full story of Elrond, please!
Uuu yes, please!
Very much would love this
Yes please. Full story of both!
Yes please, the full story of both Elrond and Elross. Thanks for a very thoughtful presentation.
The full story of Elros please!
As I recall, both sons of Elrond (Elladan and Elrohir) went with Celeborn when he finally departed, but the phrasing does leave it ambiguous.
That photo is kinda scary…
hahahhahaha😂😂😂😂
Very
😂😂😂
Agreed. Very strange looking as well
@@TheBrokenSword I’m gonna throw this out right here: my almost 13 yr old made a mocking comment about my own largish forehead and called it a “fivehead.” 🤣 I cracked up & now it’s just part of our vocabulary. These dudes have fiveheads. 😂
I commented on a different channel just an hour ago that I wished for this choice to be explained to me, because I didn't understand who would choose a mortal life. I'm so glad I didn't have to wait too long for a proper answer, from a different channel that I also love lol
One thing I see a lot of in all fantasy lore of long-lived races is that they often become isolationist. Rarely do they associate with short-lived races like humans unless by necessity. Exceptions like Elrond who actually seems to like humans and even dwarves are rare. Also it seems that their long lives alter their perspectives to such a point where it is hard to even communicate with short-lived races as a month may seem only a day, or a year but a month to an elf, but to a human that is precious time slipping away. Even in lore where elves are mortal and eventually die of old age, it is often after 750 to 1000 years. Imagine how your perspectives on life would change if you had been born in 1250 AD and had watched the history of men unfold over all that time seeing the same patterns of death and destruction repeat again and again. Maybe at one point in your youth you tried to help men see the folly of their ways, but eventually you stopped trying or caring. I can see where if one were immortal or even that long-lived where you would perhaps begin to wish for death. I won't even speak to how an elf that spent enough time with humans to make good friendships would be repeatedly decimated by seeing them die whether from disease, violence, or simply old age. It would be similar to the pain one goes through losing a pet. For many that is a pain they never want to experience a second time. Even if you just associate among the elves, I can see where elves could grow tired of watching their kin die in wars, lose their passion for living and just wither, or simply grow tired of watching the passing of years and seeing the changes to the world. Imagine watching the forest you live in grow and die repeatedly, watching a stream cut away rock in a noticeable manner, a once lush savannah turn to desert, a desert turn to savannah. I could see where in Tolkien's world especially where elves are immortal that after thousands of years watching the passing of seasons, you would stop seeing the beauty in it or the years would blend into a blurry vision of the past where a glorious spring may have been 10 years ago or maybe 5000 years ago and you can no longer remember which. I can definitely see where elves could eventually come to think a mortal life might be a gift as time will be more precious, relationships have greater value as they are so short, things of beauty stand out more.
Yes, eternal life is not something necessarily that is 100% positive. The weariness of someone like Cirdan, who was there on the first migration from Cuivienen to Beleriand right until into the Fourth Age cannot be comprehended.
As an amateur fantasy writer myself, I have a protagonist who is not an Elf (since there are no Elves in my story) but who effectively has a strain of magical blood which leads him and those in his bloodline "whose blood runs true" to be functionally immortal in the same way as Tolkien's Elves - i.e. immortal and perpetually youthful in theory, but killable. In this story, their people's hearts tend to "go cold" over time as they see people they love pass away, and as they witness the change of even the landscape and cultures. They dissociate from society and at best revert to a wild lifestyle away from whatever they did before - be they peasant or king - or at worst their dissociation creates a fall to evil as they turn truly sociopathic (and eventually need killing). The jeopardy for my protagonist and for those who love him is that he is extremely powerful in magic too, and thus for his whole life until that point could either end up a harmless wanderer or the next Dark Lord effectively, so his close ones are always on the lookout for the sign he is about to turn - and then have a terrible choice to make.
Considering how much loss and pain exists, I'd absolutely choose the gift of Men over being stuck here until the end of the world. Immortality is just not glamorous or appealing to me.
Given your passionate description of the honorable and virtuous life of Elrond, I, too, would love to see a comprehensive review of his life’s story. It would be great to add in a timeline of Elroy atop of this Elrond review, including any known times when they would be together after separation in their early life.
When thinking of the idea of a “gift” of men, I use the example of cheat codes in a video game. When I got cheat codes for Doom, I quickly bored of the game. It’s only when we know life is limited and our actions impact the time we have that we are able to fully realize the gift of mortality.
You get that by the philosopher guy channel and Huge work done by Tolkien Untangled.
The full story of Elros would be very interesting, but I would love both really
Regardless of what his sons chose, I cannot imagine Elrond being able to stand going to Valinor, seeing his wife again and having to tell her that she'd never see her daughter again.
Unnumbered tears Celebrian would shed. It would take everything for Elrond to tell her.
You know we want more videos! Lol I want both vids
I don’t know if he acted similarly in in the books, but this video sheds light on why Elrond got so upset at Arwen for wanting to leave.
The full story of Elros! I feel he gets neglected 😏
Full story of the Half-Elven's!
Really enjoyed this telling of the lineage of Men & Elve's. I was intrigued throughout until the end. I look forward to seeing MORE of LOTR character back-stories on your show!
Thank you for the video ❤️
The full story of Both 🌞👑
THIS is the one question I have had for YEARS!!!! Thank you!!!
After you last video seeing the 87 percent unsubscribed people watching your videos. I had to subscribe. Your content is great.
I'd choose the life spam of numenor men a few centuries is pretty cool, now seeing everyone else die , city's/nations rising and falling , many wars , and then the fact that I have to live with all those good/sad aswell as bad/sad memories 4ever .. na
Even though this is a fictional story, that choice between mortality and immortality is a great moral dilemma. The curses for both suck. It would be a really hard decision. To be honest, I would choose to be an Elf, because aging and the physical diminshing that comes with it is hard to bear too ... as well to have all that time to grow in wisdom and service.
Elrond sailed into the West in the end, where he was reunited with his wife, Celebrian & I like to think that the two of them had several more children.
extremely unlikely as elves only have children while young
you've told and amazing story bro , your voice is claiming
Long-lived mortal, no-brainer here.
Yet another great video. 💪
Full story of the half elven please.
Númenor was supposed to be a discussion about death vs life vs human nature vs immortality. But in the serie we had: Make Númenor Great Again.
About the elves, there is an opportunity to show that being immortal is not just not aging and being beautiful for eternity, but the fact of acquiring feelings, wisdom, lived moments that will be eternal and that will not "be lost in time like tears in the rain".
Excellent choice for a quote, mate. I still haven't watched RoP, was waiting until we had a whole first season to see if they ever hit stride and turn it around.
In regards to RoP. You might as well put red hats on them since half the characters got their hair done at supercuts anyway. 🤷
Another great video 💕
Please do a story on elros
I need your live streams to sound this good
In a broken world like middle-earth or our own, mortality is indeed a great gift.
A mortal life! Out living your children, grandchildren, etc... That would crush my heart and soul. The metal and emotional pain would be extremely hard to bear! I know that it sounds rather odd, but no parent should have to witness their child dying!
Oh, one more thing! It would be great to get the back stories of the two characters that you had mentioned!😀
I would choose the life of Elros, I’m not quite sure why.I think there is beauty in the bittersweetness of mortality. It makes thing more precious, knowing we r only here for a limited amount of time. I would like to live a longer than normal life though.
Great video. I would be interested in the full life of Elrond.
Very Nice ✌️😉♥️
I can't see mortality as a gift no but I can see it as an experience and with every experience comes knowledge which is a gift. All in all as a christian, I would tell you to ask me that question again when I have tasted resurrection. 🙂The AI-generated art you use is beautiful btw.
Full story of both of course! Please and thank you.
Elf for me. I love history and becoming an immortal historian and keeper of knowledge appeals to me.
Elrond lost his mother at a young age, had to watch his twin brother grow old and die, bury at least 70 generations of nephews, grandnephews, great-grandnephews, and so on, fostering many of them, and after all of that, Arwen chose the same fate as his brother. And yet, he always fought for good and took care of those who needed it, turned down offers of power, and managed to not become bitter or full of despair. What a guy, huh?
Full story of both please!
Sending into the universe... Needs to be made a movie. I would choose a good mortal life because after a while time and events just go into repeat.
Full story of Elros would be a neat project
The full story of Elrond please!!! :D
I would take a long mortal life, 300-500 years.
Yes full story of everything
Was the intro picture for Halloween ? All the other art looks great!
😂😂 it was some AI art we’ve been playing with!
@@TheBrokenSword lol I like it its fit in with the season!
@@TheBrokenSword hi there is a spam bot in the comments doing giveaways
Full stories of both _Peredhel_ please!
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
Full story on both!
Full story of elrond !
Full story of both please!!
Full story of Elrond please!
Elrond and Elros were full grown by 24 years of age:
"Elrond. The “Half-elven” should age slower than ordinary Men, before the “doom” of the Valar was spoken.[ Probably at rate of 1 to 5 as for Elros, the only one who lived his life out as Half-elven. (Full growth being achieved at Elvish rate of 24 but reckoned in normal löar.)"
NoMe, Elvish Ages & Númenórean
Tis nothing in this world that can fill an eternity. To hear every joke, see every beauty, to know every twist and turn except for the evolving cruelty... immortality is no gift.
A complete story of Elrond would be awesome.
Fair enough, but I don't think Tolkien's world is eternal. There's a long but finite history, and then the Second Music of Ainur, and after that, who knows (maybe everyone's back to the timeless void, and then maybe there will be another universe).
The Full Story of Both the Half-Elven Brothers please :)
Full story of both, pretty please!
Full story of both, please!
Full story of both!
I’d choose the life of an elf and I’d love to hear the story of both half elves!! ❤
I'd choose the life of an elf, think of all the knowledge and wisdom that could be gained through such immortality!
What are those DnD Warcraft type of elves doing on your thumbnail? I love your videos but... there are countless super good ones to use.. just curious is all...
They could make the most epic of trilogys for this story alone
It's sort of understandable why Elrond didn't take on the High Kingship of the Noldor when Gil-Galad died at the end of the Second Age, as so few Noldor Elves remained in Middle Earth after that. I'm sure most of them actually returned to Valinor at the end of the War of Wrath when the Exile of the Noldor was lifted, and they returned in dribs & drabs thereafter, thusly a diminishing people over which to rule.
It's less clear why he didn't eventually assume the High Kingship of the Sindar earlier than this though. Was it because Doriath had been the seat of the Kingship and at its loss under Dior it effectively ended the realm of the Sindar, leaving only colonies? However, there was still a large population of Sindar with Cirdan who could have hosted Thingol's descendants. Elwing could have been High Queen upon Dior's death, but perhaps the High Overlordship could only pass down the male line and her brothers disappeared and presumably died young. Maybe by the time Elrond & Elros came along, there was no point and certainly by the time the twins were in the custody of Maglor & Maedhros (after the Second & Third Kinslayings), there was nothing to rule over. But then Elrond grew up as an Elf and could have ruled the Sindar remnant who were lead by Cirdan (which included last survivors from Doriath) - but I assume he chose not to.
Full story of both, please. Thanks
More Elros please
Celebrìan departed for Valinor, not the Halls of Mandos.
The Return of the King appendices say that Elladan and Elrohir remain in Rivendell after their father's departure, joined there by Celeborn.
I find it interesting when I see paintings of Elrond and Elros in which they’re not identical. After all, I think Tolkien NEVER said they were IDENTICAL twins!
Some pictures show Elrond with pointy ears, and Elros with round ones: and it’s funny, cause I guess Tolkien NEVER said that Elves had pointy ears! 😅
I still would make the same choice Elrond did to be an immortal Elf. Yes, your friends will all die but it's not about how long you have with them it should be about how much fun you have and what you learn from them. Then you just make new friends.
Yes, a full story on the life of Elrond and one on Elros would be great. Give my Elrond time to shine.
The full story of all 3 please
In principle, the prospect of being not bound to the Music of Ainur and therefore in effect having more free will would be tempting, and likewise the prospect of (after a time) being set free from Ea (and any possible weariness thereof) and go live with Eru aka. the celestial dictator (althought the latter is only a conjecture and supposedly only Manwe and Mandos know the answer).
But on the downside, the ordinary lifespan of Men is a joke. As soon as Men start to get hang of anything, it's already time to pass away. Being susceptible to sickness and senescence is also not the nicest thing.
So, to answer the question: Given the opportunity to have the "Gift of Men" AND an assurance of a lifespan of at least a couple of millennia (Elros' 500 years or so is an improvement but not good enough), and no sickness and old-age ailments bs, I would perhaps at least consider Elros' choice. Otherwise it would be Elvenhood every time.
The full story of both half-elven
The full story of both please.
Full stories for every named character!
The full story of the half-elven :D
Full Story of Both Please 😃
Yes please
Do the Dwarves and orcs have an afterlife?
None knows the answer to that.
Would like to see full story of both please
The full story of the half-elven please
What is the background tune?
Full story of Elros, please. Particularly why he chose to create a brand new (mortal) family and never be reunited with his parents and twin brother. Elros deliberately chose to permenantly turn his back on his closest kin. It makes you imagine that he had a deeply unhappy childhood. Poor Elrond - I'd have thought twins are usually closer than that.
You'll love Tolkien Untangled then!
If he didn't most likely aragorn wouldn't have existed or it'd simply make him another elf by default....
@@Makkaru112 Thanks for the recommendation but I already subscribe to Tolkien Untangled (and many other Tolkien channels). :)
Consider the childhood they had, their family history, the mighty Elves they knew- I'd choose mortality as well I'd it meant avoiding decades, even millenia of loss and pain.
Full story of both plz
I've always wondered if the lives Elrond and Elros lived before making the choice had an impact on that choice. Remember, Elrond and Elros had lost their parents by the age of 6. They then were brought up by the elves who killed their grandfather and tried to kill their mother. I know Maglor (and I believe Maedros) came to love the brothers. But he acted at first out of guilt, and that had to have an impact on their relationship. The sons of Feanor seem like unhappy, conflicted elves, and the boys certainly would be aware of this. Elros chooses to become mortal and a king. Elrond on the other hand, chooses immortality and never claims any throne he would have had the right to claim. I wish I knew why.
Maglor and Maedhros were the oldest of the Sons of Feanor, but they were also the most opposite in temperament and personality. Maglor was said to be the most like their mother, who was literally the only person who could calm Feanor down. Now the Middle 3 C-named sons were psychopathic, sociopathic and vengeful SOB, but it’s disheartening to learn that the 2 M-named sons still took part in the Kinslayings. If my dad decided to uproot our family and attempt to make me swear an oath because his 3 pretty gemstones were taken from him, I’d of laughed in his face and would have had him committed to a nursing home somewhere in the Fountains of Lorien(Vala Irmo) and ask him to give him soothing visions since he must have lost his goddamned mind lol.
@@JonBoullion1020 pretty gemstones? Don't think you understand how important the silmarils where
@@JW-jd6sn I think I do, especially when you take the Light of the Two Trees out of the equation, then you’re stuck with nothing but 3 pretty gemstones. The Light that made them special, Feanor didn’t make and so to swear an oath to recover them, would be a dead point to me. What Right would I have had to claim the Light inside was also mine and would one covet such a Jewel proudly walking through Valinor with the Jewel on a Crown? Yavanna and Nienna just sitting there and me expecting them at least to not do anything to me? It’s their light that made the Gemstone anything special, and judging by the first deed done by the Feanor and his Sons was the Kinslaying…..I might make a pinky promise to maybe search the couch really good to make sure one didn’t fall into it, but I’m not about to bring upon the Doom of Mandos and become a fugitive and willing party to do much suffering in the world.
@@JonBoullion1020 lol. Yes take the element that makes them special to make a stupid argument
@@JW-jd6sn An argument? Where? 🤨 I was commenting from the viewpoint of someone who enjoys the book and was poking lighthearted banter at the lack of morality that Tolkien had written the Sons of Feanor to posses when swearing their Oath and all that came from it. YOU seem to have taken offense at my viewpoint and have somehow decided to make this into an argument where my viewpoint is “stupid”…..Oh nooo……sweet J W🥺…..…you do know that the entirety of Tolkien’s work on this topic is Fiction, right? 😥
I didn’t want to be the one to tell you that…to ruin your weirdly misplaced superiority complex as if I were an older sibling ruining Christmas for his naive little sibling by divulging the secret that Santa isn’t Real.😱
Oh damn, I did it again, didn’t I 😩
Go find someone else to argue with before I tell you a similar secret about a Miss Fairy, Tooth.
Thus it came to pass.
I will take the gift.
I always thought it was BS that Elrond's children were not bound by their father's fate, while Elros' were.
Because Elros married a mortal woman. If he married an Elf maybe his descendants would be given the choice
Pretty sure you know this, but it was Elrond who was the great grandson of Fingolfin and grandson of Turgon, not Finrod Felagund. I am in no way questioning your knowledge (which is undoubtedly far greater than mine), I just wanted to point it out. Keep up the good work!
Full story on both please
Full story of both.
The full story of both please
Full story of both please
Full story of both half elven please.
Both full stories of Elrond and Elros.
Full story of Elros (please 😄)
I am interested in the story of this whole family because Elrond & Galadriel are fascinating to be. I wanna know about Elrond & Elrond’s parents, if there were siblings, their lives in full, that of their next generation if there is anything much said. I have all the books, which includes the genealogy, but those are similar names on pages and some lines die, trail and renew & mix, so it can be daunting and confusing. I didn’t even realize that Arwen’s mom, Celbrian was Galadriel’s daughter & couldn’t remember anything about her. I thought of Elrond and Galadriel as being contemporary in age, but had forgotten he’s much younger, as they are immortal and that age visibly catches up and goes no further for eons. This is wondrously interesting and I would love you guys’ guidance on them all. I also rarely hear anything about Arwen’s twin brothers. So much to delve into. Please do. I also loved another commenter’s question about whether there are concepts of afterlife for dwarves and orcs (as well as Hobbits) and their views on such things, which might also get tangled up in belief systems or “religion.” But, I’d love to hear more on that, too. 👍🏻
I could see Uruks believing in Davy Jones' Locker
the full story of both please
WEll done, but frankly I'm more interested in why the twins might have chosen their respective kindreds. I myself rather love the notion that Elros fell in love with a mortal woman, and--knowing as he did the tale of Ardenal--made the "Choice of Luthien."
Although the culture of the elves appeals to me more, I could not tolerate that kind of longevity. As one lives, one accumulates sorrows and pains and losses. I'm glad there is an end to that. In fact, that makes it livable. I'd hate for it to go on forever.
Full story of Elros please
Doesn't that make arwen and aragorn relatives though? Elrond is aragorns great uncle.
Full story of elros
Not Jeff here. Elros and Elrond are twins. The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, are twins. The tale of Arwen and Aragorn mention that they had daughters, unnamed and unnumbered. My headcanon is that there were twin girls, and they were also amazing adventurers.
Does Elrond, also have Maiar lineage?Can he also claim, Vanya lineage?
As a descendant of Lúthien, Elrond indeed had Maia blood. And as a descendant of Idril Celebrindal, he indeed had Vanyarin blood.
Story of both, please.