My favorite bit of foreshadowing in the whole game is that Quark says the line "Gosh, grandpa, you're such a worrier" to Tenmyoji which turbonerds may recognize as a line June says to Junpei in 999 verbatim (Well, she says warrior, but she corrects herself to worrier lol) Independent sources confirm: Junpei do be worrying
2:47:47 yeah I think its that. Akane would know about it since she’s been there. Also her more forward “this will work” approach is just VLR Akane only knowing what leaving is like. Kind of a weird retcon payoff lol. We love macguffins here
Huge ZTD/Zero Escape 3 Spoilers (WARNING FOR BLIND PLAYERS WHO WANNA WATCH THE NEXT SERIES): /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Yeah I think it makes sense as a theory (especially you saying this is VLR Akane) , I never really thought about it until that moment during the stream. I'm still on the fence about whether it's a retcon or not. I guess the whole thing hinges on whether Akane and Junpei were planned to be in ZTD from VLR's inception, or if they were added after the fact because Uchi thought it would be neat. The call from the woman claims 6 people are dead, and the game implies that Sigma and Phi will be going to the test site. If that recording exists in this timeline, Phi, Sigma and that woman are the 3 survivors. What Akane says in the 2029 ending, about how she knows nothing of what happens at the test site, and that Sigma and Phi are the only people who can stop the radical 6 outbreak (which is technically true) can serve as evidence that Akane and Junpei were added as an afterthought, and the transporter was added as a band-aid to not break continuity in the VLR timeline. However, it's possible that Akane is just lying to Sigma here to incentivize him to complete the AB project? I definitely think the Phi twist was thought up during VLR's development, and that twist heavily relies on the transporter being a thing, so it's possible that Akane and Junpei being extra survivors in this timeline was also thought of and not a retcon. I also think Uchi definitely wanted to give Junpei/Akane closure, so in my mind, they were planned to be in the 3rd game all along. So who knows, maybe he was a mad genius who thought up the transporter when writing VLR, and hinted towards it with Alice and Clover in the Alternate Ending? Sorry for the rant, just writing out my thoughts haha
Man Idk if I missed something or if I'm stupid (maybe both), but I can't say I'm satisfied. That won't take away how much I liked the streams and the characters, but man that's sad. Maybe it's time to jump to ZTD...
Are you not satisfied with the ending being "Go play ZTD"? Or is it something doesn't make sense. Maybe I can help explain it? I know a lot of this stuff isn't straight forward or simple so it can be confusing for a lot of people.
Thanks for the offer. After rewatching some parts of the previous stream and this one I finally understood the graph and I'm much more satisfied with the story of the game. Ofc the "go play ZTD" was still a letdown, but from what Speedy has explained it makes sense. Anywyas, now I'm really looking forward to how things end in ZTD :)
Another great stream completed! Really enjoyed it, especially towards the end as the mystery unfolded. Just a few things I do not fully get. 1. Why do the older versions of the characters look so unlike their younger selves? Old man Sigma looks nothing like young man Sigma, same thing with Junpei and, to a degree, Akane. I get that so the players do not immediately catch on who is who, but the contrast is quite stark. I guess going through a nuclear apocalypse does not help one's looks. 2. I love the old man Sigma twist at the end, but would he not hear himself speak and realize his voice sounds different? Harsher? Compare yourself to 20 years ago, your voice is definitely different. 3. Maybe the next game will answer this, but how can 2074 timeline still exist? And, how can it not exist? If I understood correctly, old man Sigma is in young man Sigma's body during the next game. So, assuming this time he succeeds in his mission in stopping the spread of Radical 6, what happens to the 2074 timeline? The only reason he succeeds is due… not sure honestly, but if the 2074 era no longer exists, neither should he succeed… right? It is, essentially, the bootstrap paradox. Am I misunderstanding the nature of the time travel? Because the game makes a point about saying how important it was for young man Sigma to come to 2074 to have his training montage, but young man Sigma does not use that training, his older self does. But, how can his older self exist, if the 2074 he knows is never created? See my point? Anyway, great stream and cannot wait for Zero Escape.
Glad you enjoyed it! I can try to answer some of your questions, but the answers probably won't be satisfying haha 1. I don't think they look too drastically different, but it's definitely not obvious. It was probably a little intentional to hide the twists better, especially Sigma's. If we saw the hologram of Zero and it looked too much like him, it would potentially ruin the setup for the ending. However, I had a friend who played the game blind and right when he saw the old woman's corpse, he guessed her identity correctly, and then in turn guessed Tenmyouji's identity because of it. I'd say it's still in the realm of believability. 2. This is where the player has to suspend their disbelief a bit haha. I like to think being thrown in a death game would probably keep you a bit distracted and wired, so changes like that wouldn't be as apparent to Sigma. Especially when his arms (a part of your body that you're able to see easily) looked young like they usually do. However, I do think it's ridiculous that Sigma would not try to check his reflection once during the game, when he stated that he felt floaty and that he didn't feel like his body belonged to him. That and the fact that he never tried to touch his face or rub his eye, where he has a robotic eye jutting out. 3. The third game will give closure to this, but I'll try to explain it. The version of Sigma that we followed throughout the entirety of the game was set on a course to learn to master his time-jumping abilities, so that he can go back to the Nevada test site and prevent Radical-6 from ever breaking out. If Sigma fails to prevent Radical-6 from getting out, he will end up in that room with Akane in the year 2029, and swap with a version of Sigma that got hit with the butt of the knife in the garden. The failure Sigma will live out the rest of his days on Rhizome-9 in the timeline where Earth is red. The ultimate goal is for Sigma to succeed and prevent the outbreak from occurring, in which there will be a new branching timeline created where humanity is saved. But just because that timeline is created and exists, it wouldn't erase the other timelines where Sigma made a mistake and failed. It becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. In order for VLR to occur, a future version of Sigma had to fail at the Nevada test site. If the Sigma that we followed fails in the third game, it will be his duty to make sure the events of VLR occur as they do, and the infinite cycle of Sigma's will continue on in this time loop. (And that timeline where Sigma does become Zero and reenacts the events of VLR perfectly only needs to occur once among an infinite amount of differing timelines. There could be billions of timelines where the AB project fails or doesn't even get created in the first place. As long as the successful timeline is recreated once among these possibilities, the loop will continue forever.) I think the thing that doesn't make it a boot strap paradox is that Sigma isn't trying to re-write history, but he's trying to create a path to an alternate timeline. If you look at the "mystery schematic" diagram that explains the AB project's timeline paths, you can see that the event at the Nevada test site has two branching paths, and just because one is traveled down, doesn't erase the other. I hope that helps, it's confusing the think about, but I'm very glad you enjoyed the game and as always, I appreciate the support!
@@SpeedyHawk 1. Yeah, 100%. There is enough to justify the different looks, at least in regards to Sigma. 2. Now that you say it in that way, it is even more ridiculous. That means Sigma did not try to touch his face, scratch himself, anything that might indicate his body is not the one he knows. Also, would no one point out, hey you with the robotic eye? And, there were enough reflective surfaces there to see himself (you start the game in a room that has a blank screen in it). Definitely you have to suspend your belief. But, I feel there is also enough justifications in the game to smooth that over: having radical-6, being in a tense and unknown situation. Still, a suspension of belief, but workable. 3. Thank you for that explanation, it does make it clearer. So, they are not trying to rewrite time, but create an alternate time where Radical-6 never breaks out. So, the timeline of VLR will always happen and the sequence of events that follows will always happen. So, Alice and Clover are stuck in 2074 no matter what. Based on that, and maybe spoilers for the next game (feel free to quack), does the game ever answer why Sigma failed to stop it first time around (whatever "first time" means in this case)? Also, old man Sigma (from 2074) is playing the third game in his younger body… right? So, if it is branching timelines, then fail or succeed, he still returns to his own post Radical-6 timeline in 2074. To that degree, we can say, the AB game was more than a training montage, it was also to teach Sigma to help others, regardless of the inherent value in it. After all, why should old man Sigma care what happens in the past? His 2074 future is set, there is no changing that. It also stands to reason, that there is a timeline where Radical-6 never breaks out and never happens. Perhaps, then, helping a different Sigma to live out his life peacefully is worth it. And, ultimately, to guarantee a peaceful life for humanity, without relying on chance. At least, that's how I see it. Honestly, I love time travel and alternate timelines, I can spend way too much time discussing them. So, thanks for that.
@@jeffl3916 There actually aren't reflective sources aside from that one pond, literally every other mirror or other kind of surface that *should* normally be reflective has some flavor text saying how it's too dirty or cracked or some other reason for it to not actually be reflective when you check it
Can't believe Uchikoshi would use the morphogenetic field to travel back in time and make VLR a 2024 meme game
I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!
My favorite bit of foreshadowing in the whole game is that Quark says the line "Gosh, grandpa, you're such a worrier" to Tenmyoji which turbonerds may recognize as a line June says to Junpei in 999 verbatim (Well, she says warrior, but she corrects herself to worrier lol)
Independent sources confirm: Junpei do be worrying
2:47:47 yeah I think its that. Akane would know about it since she’s been there. Also her more forward “this will work” approach is just VLR Akane only knowing what leaving is like.
Kind of a weird retcon payoff lol. We love macguffins here
Huge ZTD/Zero Escape 3 Spoilers (WARNING FOR BLIND PLAYERS WHO WANNA WATCH THE NEXT SERIES):
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Yeah I think it makes sense as a theory (especially you saying this is VLR Akane) , I never really thought about it until that moment during the stream.
I'm still on the fence about whether it's a retcon or not. I guess the whole thing hinges on whether Akane and Junpei were planned to be in ZTD from VLR's inception, or if they were added after the fact because Uchi thought it would be neat.
The call from the woman claims 6 people are dead, and the game implies that Sigma and Phi will be going to the test site. If that recording exists in this timeline, Phi, Sigma and that woman are the 3 survivors.
What Akane says in the 2029 ending, about how she knows nothing of what happens at the test site, and that Sigma and Phi are the only people who can stop the radical 6 outbreak (which is technically true) can serve as evidence that Akane and Junpei were added as an afterthought, and the transporter was added as a band-aid to not break continuity in the VLR timeline.
However, it's possible that Akane is just lying to Sigma here to incentivize him to complete the AB project? I definitely think the Phi twist was thought up during VLR's development, and that twist heavily relies on the transporter being a thing, so it's possible that Akane and Junpei being extra survivors in this timeline was also thought of and not a retcon. I also think Uchi definitely wanted to give Junpei/Akane closure, so in my mind, they were planned to be in the 3rd game all along. So who knows, maybe he was a mad genius who thought up the transporter when writing VLR, and hinted towards it with Alice and Clover in the Alternate Ending?
Sorry for the rant, just writing out my thoughts haha
Man Idk if I missed something or if I'm stupid (maybe both), but I can't say I'm satisfied. That won't take away how much I liked the streams and the characters, but man that's sad. Maybe it's time to jump to ZTD...
Are you not satisfied with the ending being "Go play ZTD"? Or is it something doesn't make sense. Maybe I can help explain it? I know a lot of this stuff isn't straight forward or simple so it can be confusing for a lot of people.
Thanks for the offer. After rewatching some parts of the previous stream and this one I finally understood the graph and I'm much more satisfied with the story of the game. Ofc the "go play ZTD" was still a letdown, but from what Speedy has explained it makes sense. Anywyas, now I'm really looking forward to how things end in ZTD :)
Another great stream completed! Really enjoyed it, especially towards the end as the mystery unfolded. Just a few things I do not fully get.
1. Why do the older versions of the characters look so unlike their younger selves? Old man Sigma looks nothing like young man Sigma, same thing with Junpei and, to a degree, Akane. I get that so the players do not immediately catch on who is who, but the contrast is quite stark. I guess going through a nuclear apocalypse does not help one's looks.
2. I love the old man Sigma twist at the end, but would he not hear himself speak and realize his voice sounds different? Harsher? Compare yourself to 20 years ago, your voice is definitely different.
3. Maybe the next game will answer this, but how can 2074 timeline still exist? And, how can it not exist? If I understood correctly, old man Sigma is in young man Sigma's body during the next game. So, assuming this time he succeeds in his mission in stopping the spread of Radical 6, what happens to the 2074 timeline? The only reason he succeeds is due… not sure honestly, but if the 2074 era no longer exists, neither should he succeed… right? It is, essentially, the bootstrap paradox. Am I misunderstanding the nature of the time travel? Because the game makes a point about saying how important it was for young man Sigma to come to 2074 to have his training montage, but young man Sigma does not use that training, his older self does. But, how can his older self exist, if the 2074 he knows is never created? See my point?
Anyway, great stream and cannot wait for Zero Escape.
Glad you enjoyed it! I can try to answer some of your questions, but the answers probably won't be satisfying haha
1. I don't think they look too drastically different, but it's definitely not obvious. It was probably a little intentional to hide the twists better, especially Sigma's. If we saw the hologram of Zero and it looked too much like him, it would potentially ruin the setup for the ending. However, I had a friend who played the game blind and right when he saw the old woman's corpse, he guessed her identity correctly, and then in turn guessed Tenmyouji's identity because of it. I'd say it's still in the realm of believability.
2. This is where the player has to suspend their disbelief a bit haha. I like to think being thrown in a death game would probably keep you a bit distracted and wired, so changes like that wouldn't be as apparent to Sigma. Especially when his arms (a part of your body that you're able to see easily) looked young like they usually do. However, I do think it's ridiculous that Sigma would not try to check his reflection once during the game, when he stated that he felt floaty and that he didn't feel like his body belonged to him. That and the fact that he never tried to touch his face or rub his eye, where he has a robotic eye jutting out.
3. The third game will give closure to this, but I'll try to explain it.
The version of Sigma that we followed throughout the entirety of the game was set on a course to learn to master his time-jumping abilities, so that he can go back to the Nevada test site and prevent Radical-6 from ever breaking out. If Sigma fails to prevent Radical-6 from getting out, he will end up in that room with Akane in the year 2029, and swap with a version of Sigma that got hit with the butt of the knife in the garden. The failure Sigma will live out the rest of his days on Rhizome-9 in the timeline where Earth is red.
The ultimate goal is for Sigma to succeed and prevent the outbreak from occurring, in which there will be a new branching timeline created where humanity is saved. But just because that timeline is created and exists, it wouldn't erase the other timelines where Sigma made a mistake and failed.
It becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. In order for VLR to occur, a future version of Sigma had to fail at the Nevada test site. If the Sigma that we followed fails in the third game, it will be his duty to make sure the events of VLR occur as they do, and the infinite cycle of Sigma's will continue on in this time loop. (And that timeline where Sigma does become Zero and reenacts the events of VLR perfectly only needs to occur once among an infinite amount of differing timelines. There could be billions of timelines where the AB project fails or doesn't even get created in the first place. As long as the successful timeline is recreated once among these possibilities, the loop will continue forever.)
I think the thing that doesn't make it a boot strap paradox is that Sigma isn't trying to re-write history, but he's trying to create a path to an alternate timeline. If you look at the "mystery schematic" diagram that explains the AB project's timeline paths, you can see that the event at the Nevada test site has two branching paths, and just because one is traveled down, doesn't erase the other.
I hope that helps, it's confusing the think about, but I'm very glad you enjoyed the game and as always, I appreciate the support!
@@SpeedyHawk
1. Yeah, 100%. There is enough to justify the different looks, at least in regards to Sigma.
2. Now that you say it in that way, it is even more ridiculous. That means Sigma did not try to touch his face, scratch himself, anything that might indicate his body is not the one he knows. Also, would no one point out, hey you with the robotic eye? And, there were enough reflective surfaces there to see himself (you start the game in a room that has a blank screen in it). Definitely you have to suspend your belief. But, I feel there is also enough justifications in the game to smooth that over: having radical-6, being in a tense and unknown situation. Still, a suspension of belief, but workable.
3. Thank you for that explanation, it does make it clearer. So, they are not trying to rewrite time, but create an alternate time where Radical-6 never breaks out. So, the timeline of VLR will always happen and the sequence of events that follows will always happen. So, Alice and Clover are stuck in 2074 no matter what. Based on that, and maybe spoilers for the next game (feel free to quack), does the game ever answer why Sigma failed to stop it first time around (whatever "first time" means in this case)? Also, old man Sigma (from 2074) is playing the third game in his younger body… right? So, if it is branching timelines, then fail or succeed, he still returns to his own post Radical-6 timeline in 2074.
To that degree, we can say, the AB game was more than a training montage, it was also to teach Sigma to help others, regardless of the inherent value in it. After all, why should old man Sigma care what happens in the past? His 2074 future is set, there is no changing that. It also stands to reason, that there is a timeline where Radical-6 never breaks out and never happens. Perhaps, then, helping a different Sigma to live out his life peacefully is worth it. And, ultimately, to guarantee a peaceful life for humanity, without relying on chance. At least, that's how I see it.
Honestly, I love time travel and alternate timelines, I can spend way too much time discussing them. So, thanks for that.
@@jeffl3916 There actually aren't reflective sources aside from that one pond, literally every other mirror or other kind of surface that *should* normally be reflective has some flavor text saying how it's too dirty or cracked or some other reason for it to not actually be reflective when you check it