Some of this seems outdated. Lithium prices have dropped considerably. Recycling of Lithium ion batteries is becoming routine, Sodium Ion batteries have been showing a lot of promise. Flow is one of many interesting technologies.
Yes. lithium prices dropped but still not cheap enough. However, rare earth minerals are an even bigger ingredient than lithium, and they're not cheap either. Recycling became routine but is still a demanding process. Sodium ion batteries are very promising as we reported about several times . When it comes to cost and scalability, flow batteries are one of the most promising and interesting ones. Best regards and stay tuned. :)
Flow could make electric cars viable, by using current refueling(gas) stations to swap out expended electrolyte for charged electrolyte... thereby "recharging" the EV in seconds!
Flow batteries will gain acceptance with utilities and large power consumers due to the ability to seperate its power from energy. I think ESS inc., out of Oregon is my favorite in this field so far, with their iron flow batteries
They havent been super forthcoming about details but my understanding is it can discharge/recharge at a rate of 75kw an hour and can be recharged while being discharged, idk how that works but is a cool feature. Ive been able to parse from them that the membrane is some common material, some kind of plastic i think. Since its the same liquid on either side of the membrane a ruptured membrane would be a fairly easy repair with minimum down time. Im hoping for increased clarity when they switch out of R&D accounting in Q3
@@onestoptechnologies7305 thanks for reminding me about that one, I will have to watch some videos on that again. If I remember correctly the membrane for ESS is cheap since its the same chemistry on each side and their electrolyte is also water that is saturated with salt and iron
@@Adam-ul2px The other thing I like about Salgenx is that they have smaller systems. The whole house solar market is HUGE! People want to have solar, but they want to "cut the cord" not just add solar and still have an electric bill! Instead of having a few thousand "customers" via electric providers... the market is hundreds of thousands of customers!
True. Battery Breakthroughs are being made everywhere. Its actually a good development for the Industry. But we have to notice that not every Breakthrough in the lab also makes it into mass production.
I have been hearing about all kinds of batteries for the past 5 years. Yet, lithium batteries still dominate. When will these alternative batteries really be practical?
Flow batteries are not going to replace lithium batteries for mobile applications. They are the best hope for the storage needed to make renewables a practical replacement for fossil and nuclear.
Yeah for mobile applications probably not. Energy density is too low. But that doesn’t matter for stationary storages. Only thing matter is price and durability!
Not if someone makes flow battery with the right specifications, like high Wh/liter (like 300Wh/l) . Also there could be the advantage of refilling with charged liquid for long trips.
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. Time taken in stocking energy to build an energy system, adding to it the time taken in building the system will always be longer than the entire useful lifetime of the system. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future".
Salt, water, iron bountiful and cheap materials. Improve apon an equally cheap membrane and Evan with it's lower energy density you have a good market for back up power with long term storage
Every few days a new super break through that NEVER appears. The fault with ALL these devices is MONEY. FOSSIL FUEL is big money i dont see that changing .
So they don't have as much peak power output or input as lion batteries but are cheaper and easier to build in bulk storage... but then you reveal that they cost 3x as much as lion batteries so... yea... how is that economically viable again?
@@The.Futurist I remember looking into this about 5 years ago. How many decades do you think it will take and how is that going to happen if there is no reason to buy them now?
Yet another thing that will NEVER happen, every new tech that has appeared on YT stating what this does never happen, as soon as I see the new stuff apearing in my feed I think here we go again.
But it already happened. There are market ready solutions of this battery already operational as we reported in the video. Not only a lab breakthrough anymore. Best regard’s and stay tuned :)
Flow batteries will not replace lithium. The technologies are complementary. Lithium batteries are great for grid frequency control and flow batteries are great for long duration.
@@The.Futurist Hopefully. That would be cool if they became a good cheap option. They need about an 80% price drop as it is though, just to compete with LiFePO
Of a certain the information presented here is up-to-date, pertinent and valuable; but our real thanks is that you have spent just a nickle more to purchase an AI voice that can pronounce English words correctly, notices the commas and clearly understands context and inflection. (south Florida)
@@The.Futurist Understood. We hereby reward that fella a free large burrito and medium drink...free refills. Note: if the 'other' sites followed your lead and used a real person who spoke proper English their dislike to like ratio would fall appreciably. Thank you again for making this a pleasant experience.
None of these companies will make a change, you mention that VW, Tesla ect are trying to find replacements for Lithium batteries, but i think already agree to build a sodium ion battery factory in EU for most germany produced cars, which will cost 100$/kwh. Soon will be sold at 80$/kwh. And NASA/Darpa said they made battery of nano materials and water, which can be sold at 1/3 of Lithium batteries. Redox batteries is not a progress.
@@c.kainoabugado7935 You seem to forget price range of batteries, within a year sodium ion will be available at lower price than redox flow, telling us that price in 2 years might be 80dollar/kwh. Redox batteries seem to be old before they really win access to market. But lets see.
I want to build a new ICF house with Geothermal heat and cooling and put a solar panel array on the roof of a single slope garage shop. The goal is being completely off grid capable. As Democrats push net zero targets our electricity is going to get more expensive and less reliable. Lithium is too expensive and dangerous, lead acid batteries are too much work. Redox flow batteries would be ideal.
No its not a scam. We just bring all the facts together in one video regarding one topic. Our goal is to put everything together in the most entertaining wayy
Storing energy in chemical reactions is a terrible idea , storing it in the forms of heat of cold or as magnetic fields is the future , hydrogen is also an option … bottom line batteries suck …
Some of this seems outdated. Lithium prices have dropped considerably. Recycling of Lithium ion batteries is becoming routine, Sodium Ion batteries have been showing a lot of promise. Flow is one of many interesting technologies.
Yes. lithium prices dropped but still not cheap enough. However, rare earth minerals are an even bigger ingredient than lithium, and they're not cheap either.
Recycling became routine but is still a demanding process.
Sodium ion batteries are very promising as we reported about several times .
When it comes to cost and scalability, flow batteries are one of the most promising and interesting ones.
Best regards and stay tuned. :)
Flow could make electric cars viable, by using current refueling(gas) stations to swap out expended electrolyte for charged electrolyte... thereby "recharging" the EV in seconds!
Our body blood working like this principle.
How ?
Flow batteries will gain acceptance with utilities and large power consumers due to the ability to seperate its power from energy. I think ESS inc., out of Oregon is my favorite in this field so far, with their iron flow batteries
need see lifespan of membrane and charging and discharging times comparing vanadium flow battery
They havent been super forthcoming about details but my understanding is it can discharge/recharge at a rate of 75kw an hour and can be recharged while being discharged, idk how that works but is a cool feature. Ive been able to parse from them that the membrane is some common material, some kind of plastic i think. Since its the same liquid on either side of the membrane a ruptured membrane would be a fairly easy repair with minimum down time. Im hoping for increased clarity when they switch out of R&D accounting in Q3
@@Adam-ul2px What about the Salgenx battery (salt water)? This battery does not need a membrane which will cut down initial cost AND ongoing costs!
@@onestoptechnologies7305 thanks for reminding me about that one, I will have to watch some videos on that again. If I remember correctly the membrane for ESS is cheap since its the same chemistry on each side and their electrolyte is also water that is saturated with salt and iron
@@Adam-ul2px The other thing I like about Salgenx is that they have smaller systems. The whole house solar market is HUGE! People want to have solar, but they want to "cut the cord" not just add solar and still have an electric bill!
Instead of having a few thousand "customers" via electric providers... the market is hundreds of thousands of customers!
I have been an advocate for gel like substrate batteries,with a porous solid bridge for long time
Add electronic switching circuit improve capacity.
Is it possible that redflow's expensive price is set so that they can provide kickbacks to politicians/goverments who deploy their product?
Of course, These modern ticks have to be payed well if you want them to accomplish anything.
what is the Charge/Discharge rates of these redox batteries?
I've seen and read about a lot of promising ideas in the last 20 years
True. Battery Breakthroughs are being made everywhere. Its actually a good development for the Industry. But we have to notice that not every Breakthrough in the lab also makes it into mass production.
There’s an error in this video. Redflow was started by Chris and Alex Winter. Phil Livingston started redback technologies.
SUPER IDEA . POZDRAWIAM .
I have been hearing about all kinds of batteries for the past 5 years. Yet, lithium batteries still dominate. When will these alternative batteries really be practical?
I think very soon! The Industry is developing rapidly, with battery breakthroughs made almost every week.
Flow batteries are not going to replace lithium batteries for mobile applications. They are the best hope for the storage needed to make renewables a practical replacement for fossil and nuclear.
Yeah for mobile applications probably not. Energy density is too low. But that doesn’t matter for stationary storages. Only thing matter is price and durability!
I wouldn't rule out nuclear yet
@@BamBam-uf4yi Nor would anybody who looks at ther facts.
Not if someone makes flow battery with the right specifications, like high Wh/liter (like 300Wh/l) . Also there could be the advantage of refilling with charged liquid for long trips.
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
Time taken in stocking energy to build an energy system, adding to it the time taken in building the system will always be longer than the entire useful lifetime of the system.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future".
WTF, that is total nonsense.
And what about Sodium instead of Vanadium ?
Bronco Power Boost for homes and businesses. A low cost solution without the need for solar.
If this was invented 137 years ago, that would have been in 1886 not 1878.
how much does it cost per Kwh
We put all the informations into the video.
Thanks
Couldn’t watch entire video due to pounding in the audio
COST is the bottom line.
Nice
Salt, water, iron bountiful and cheap materials. Improve apon an equally cheap membrane and Evan with it's lower energy density you have a good market for back up power with long term storage
Exactly!
Every few days a new super break through that
NEVER
appears.
The fault with ALL these devices is MONEY.
FOSSIL FUEL is big money i dont see that changing .
Consumer level testing now: ua-cam.com/video/OCSa4yNNOWI/v-deo.html
So they don't have as much peak power output or input as lion batteries but are cheaper and easier to build in bulk storage... but then you reveal that they cost 3x as much as lion batteries so... yea... how is that economically viable again?
After scaling up production, costs go down exponentially. The technology is still in its infancy. With the economics of scale it will be cheaper.
@@The.Futurist I remember looking into this about 5 years ago. How many decades do you think it will take and how is that going to happen if there is no reason to buy them now?
Wow, another one of those breakthroughs nobody ever hears about again...
It's hydrogen flow and water flow battery power plant.
Yet another thing that will NEVER happen, every new tech that has appeared on YT stating what this does never happen, as soon as I see the new stuff apearing in my feed I think here we go again.
But it already happened. There are market ready solutions of this battery already operational as we reported in the video.
Not only a lab breakthrough anymore.
Best regard’s and stay tuned :)
Flow batteries will not replace lithium. The technologies are complementary. Lithium batteries are great for grid frequency control and flow batteries are great for long duration.
LiFePO, unless these flow batteries get a heck of a lot cheaper.
Im pretty sure they will
@@The.Futurist Hopefully. That would be cool if they became a good cheap option. They need about an 80% price drop as it is though, just to compete with LiFePO
We have achieved cost per kwh less than 500$
1 kWh LFP batteries costs about $70.
Liquid battery - hydrogen
Tom Nelson #110 podcast goes into the issues involved with hydrogen
Of a certain the information presented here is up-to-date, pertinent and valuable; but our real thanks is that you have spent just a nickle more to purchase an AI voice that can pronounce English words correctly, notices the commas and clearly understands context and inflection. (south Florida)
Thank you. But its actually not an AI Voice 😁
@@The.Futurist Understood. We hereby reward that fella a free large burrito and medium drink...free refills. Note: if the 'other' sites followed your lead and used a real person who spoke proper English their dislike to like ratio would fall appreciably. Thank you again for making this a pleasant experience.
None of these companies will make a change, you mention that VW, Tesla ect are trying to find replacements for Lithium batteries, but i think already agree to build a sodium ion battery factory in EU for most germany produced cars, which will cost 100$/kwh. Soon will be sold at 80$/kwh. And NASA/Darpa said they made battery of nano materials and water, which can be sold at 1/3 of Lithium batteries. Redox batteries is not a progress.
It's available to the public. Is NASA's/DARPA's?
@@c.kainoabugado7935 You seem to forget price range of batteries, within a year sodium ion will be available at lower price than redox flow, telling us that price in 2 years might be 80dollar/kwh. Redox batteries seem to be old before they really win access to market. But lets see.
I want to build a new ICF house with Geothermal heat and cooling and put a solar panel array on the roof of a single slope garage shop.
The goal is being completely off grid capable. As Democrats push net zero targets our electricity is going to get more expensive and less reliable.
Lithium is too expensive and dangerous, lead acid batteries are too much work.
Redox flow batteries would be ideal.
😃
Nice marketing scam video. Try again.
No its not a scam. We just bring all the facts together in one video regarding one topic. Our goal is to put everything together in the most entertaining wayy
Storing energy in chemical reactions is a terrible idea , storing it in the forms of heat of cold or as magnetic fields is the future , hydrogen is also an option … bottom line batteries suck …
Why do you think its a bad idea ?