Go to Valinor and steal immortality, bro! You're stronger than Manwe, bro. Valar ain't got nothin on your huge army, bruv. Dude totally go conquer the gods themselves, bro.
I just realized something: If Ents get energy from sunlight, like normal trees, then what if Trolls dying in sunlight (turning into stone) is a byproduct of the "counterfeiting" or "mockery" of Morgoth? It's a parallel that might not be intentional, but it's cool either way.
I wish the rivalry between the Ents and the Trolls was more developed. I can imagine the war between the two, in which the Ents prove that they are stronger.
Always felt it could have been cooler if like elves and dwarves the initially artificially created orcs and trolls would have their own individuality as antagonists, maybe a might makes right type of deal or a feeling of being stuck as servants to sauron like how a scene in the books played out that Sauron is simply the devil they know and they expect no sympathy from elves, humans or dwarves. Tolkein did say he wished he could have done more with orcs. I feel like that warrents some exploration even if simply in the same spirit of the concept.
That is the mystery of Tolkens Midfle Earth. There were so many creatures that fill a role for Good or Evil. However unlike Tolkiens Elves, Men and Hobbits, they are token creations of Mythology that exist to add credence to the story. Afterall, someone has to play the roll of bad guy... with the exception of the three Stone Trolls Bilbo Baggans meets who could of become friends.
In that old War of the Ring strategy game, they had some interesting interactions. If a troll slogged an ent, it kinda rocked a little. When the ent hit the troll, it absolutely floored it and sent it flying back.
The cave troll in Jackson's fellowship is perfect. A scarier upgrade on the 3 bumblers in The Hobbit, one of whom reminds me of football manager Brendan Rogers
Every time I hear “Snow Troll” I get flashbacks from my first and traumatic climb to High Hrothgar at The Throat of the World... (Even though it’s not called that in game)
Is it just me or does everyone have that voice in the back of their heads sayin “nooooo” upon seeing the duration of the vid. NODR’s work ethic and dedication to Tolkien’s work are superb that you’d wish there was a 1-hour video about anything and you’d still enjoy it. Your narration and the details u put in sums up the whole puzzle.
in my opinion Tolkiens Trolls we’re perfectly portrayed in the Hobbit, we love you Bert ! Trolls are definitely one of the more interesting “Villians” of Middle - Earth
If I may get personal.. I apologize if this may be too much for some, but I have to comment... I've watched so many of your videos. Lord of the rings has been a part of my life for 23 years. I had fallen on dark times for myself and and depression had taken ahold of me a few times causing me to take unfortunate actions towards myself. But I've obviously survived and I wanted to say that your videos have been a huge anchor for me to find mindfulness and peace. I am greatly appreciative for all you do and the time you spend on all your videos and deep dives into Tolkien. I apologize if I've divulged too much information, I apologize, but in my world, I cannot act as though things should be hidden when it's come to progress of mental health. You do much more than you may know, if perhaps you don't know already. Thank you so much. I will forever be a devoted fan for as long as you continue to produce. I have started making dioramas from my LOTR collection. Thank you again!
In the battle of the Pelenore Fields in the Return of the King, Tolkien also refers to “half-trolls.” I was hoping to learn more about them in Thai video
I think there's quite a bit of ambiguity in that Half-orcs, and Half trolls, may well just be names for Olog-Hai and Uruk Hai. I seem to recall there as always some indication both were a result of mixing with human stock, with some being more human than others strains (hence usable as spies). The separation between the Halfs and the Hai's was more a Middle Earth Roleplaying thing IIRC, whereas as in Tolkien it kinda implies they were at least of a spectrum with the warrior Hais, rather than a seperate genus...
The narrator refers to Men that look like half-trolls, not to actual half-trolls. And to be honest, I don't see how trolls would be biologically compatible with Men - unlike orcs, who when Tolkien wrote LotR he considered to be corrupted Elves; though it is unclear if Uruk-hai are bred with Men, since the half-orcs we see are described separately from the Uruk-hai.
7:05 Well, besides your quotation, the best evidence given about two headed trolls would be the Ettenmoors region seen on the maps, derived from the Old English word "Ettin" which has come to represent either a two-headed troll or giant in general. Even Pr. Lewis used a similar location in the Narnia Chronicles with Ettinsmoor. - take care, Slainte Chugat
The positivity that comes out of this guy in the midst of all this negativity is what makes this my favorite channel. During the watch party when you say "It's ok to love it, it's ok to hate it, it's even ok to just like it, but let's talk about it"... that was really moving (at least for me). nothing but love for those who promote dialogue.. continued success to you good sir ❤
I like how he never crumbled in the face of all the far right culture warrior spergy hate that was levied on his channel over the last 10 months. He took the rational position (judging the show by, you know, waiting for it to be released and actually watching it himself) and never acquiesced to the hate mob like many other youtube grifters did just for views.
@@hannibalb8276 most people disliking on the show are lore purists. i can give you a list a mile long about the lore inaccuracy of the show and sadly for me and many others it pulls me out of the immersion to enjoy the show. it must be nice to blanket all hate under the guise of the far right for every bit of criticism for everything.
@@hannibalb8276 How did the contents of your skull discover and labelled that the opposition came from a "FAR RIGHT CULTURE..."? You know how you are eating a fine meal... only to bite into a completely unexpected object which didn't below to list of components on such meal? Good, now do yourself a favor.
@@hannibalb8276 all you can do is talk about the "far right", the commie channel is somewhere else, go look for it. And again...Tolkien was a Catholic and a conservative...one of the "baddies", read something else...his work is full of nationalistic pride and love for western values..."white supremacy" in you language.
@@hannibalb8276 and by the way he's not judging impartially...he is VOLUNTARILY omitting any criticism, criticism which is necessary from someone who loves the works of Tolkien (we know Tolkien's opinion Myth and the mistreating of his work). Sorry, you are on the wrong side, the "far right" trolls are Tolkien's defenders and Amazon is a disgusting corporation corrupting this and many other channels. Irony, just like the 9 rings given to men Amazon is destroying the soul of those channels promising them worldly rewards.
I remember my reaction seeing the armored trolls for the first time in return of the king movie when the gates broke. Pretty much like Gandalf my eyes wided, and I was like OMG thats freaking awesome! Their sheer size and weapons as they tore through gondorian infantry was astonishing!
Gotta give a shout out to Pippin killing a Troll-Chief/saving Beregond at the Battle of the Morannon! In my mind it was a Olog-Hai, and I always wished that part had made it into Jackson's RotK.
Good lord, how much stuff did he change or eliminate? If Pippin didn't kill a troll, then what the heck did he do? He may as well have been sent back to the Shire.
@@tedjinks9224 Beregond wasn't there too? I saw the clip where the Steward jumps off the cliff, "thus falls Denethor," but no context. Next you'll tell me they didn't have to deal with Saruman when they get back to the Shire. Kidding-I know they took that out. Still waiting for the remake.
In an early chart of different creatures, trolls are given the Qenya name maulir. Patrick H. Wynne and Christopher Gilson have suggested that maulir is possibly related to Qenya maule ("crying, weeping"), thus perhaps "referring to cries made by these monsters or to the weeping of their victims".
Can you do a video on Gondor’s navy? Did Tolkien ever write about it? Were there any naval battles in the war of the ring? Why were the corsairs able to sail unopposed into Gondor’s ports (had Aragorn and the oath breakers not come along)?
Thank you my friend for the great narratives whenever I feel the call of middle earth all I have to do is click your channel and here it is a totally emersive dive into the world of Tolkien, thank you for all the great videos.
It is worth remembering that Tolkien took a lot of influence from Norse mythology. Norse trolls are a 'people' but they live outside of civilisation and are generally ill-natured. Later legends describes them as smaller and posibly connected to the earth. A Scandinavial legend states that lightning frightens trolls and also that the bells of churches would drive them away. Grendel (from Beowulf) may be a troll and Egil Skallagrimsson (from Egil's saga) is said to be part-troll.
Tolkien was a scholar of Old Norse and Scandinavian mythology. His trolls are almost entirely lifted from Scandinavian sagas, mythology, lore and fairytales. That they turn to stone in daylight, that they're dumb, eat humans as well as livestock, are all troll features from Scandinavian lore. Trolls also come in sizes from gorilla to as big as mountains. Indeed, the mountains of Norway were, according to lore, simply giant trolls that had turned to stone. He seems to have missed out on one kind of troll that lived in streams and lakes, Nøkken, but otherwise they're well-covered. Evolved trolls are entirely of Tolkien's making. Nowhere in Scandinavian lore do you find intelligent and cunning trolls. That role is reserved for Nisser and Dverger.
I've always been intrigued by the idea that trolls are "counterfeits" of Ents. What does that mean exactly? Tolkien wrote that evil could not create, it could only corrupt. So Morgoth didn't create the race of trolls. Did he corrupt an existing race of peaceful creatures in the Elder Days? Or are trolls merely stone statues brought to life by evil spirits and sunlight reverts them to their original state? We really don't know much about their origins.
I personally think that, much like the orcs are a twisted version of the elves, trolls may have been created by Melkor using ents and corrupting them. This also leads into my theory on the origin of the Olog-Hai. When Sauron burned the gardens of the ent-wives in his flight from the Last Alliance, it is possible that he captured a few of the them and after his defeat he used them to craft trolls with resistance to the sun.
As usual, Clarification is most appreciated!! An obscure corner of Tolkien's creation, but one worth the effort!! Thanks again!! I've probably written this same Kudos a dozen times......
Just want to say I just found your channel and it’s definitely something I’m going to deep dive into. Seems like a great spot for all that delicious lore that hits the spot.
Scenario: You´re an ice troll living around the north pole, Helcaraxë maybe. It's that time of the year again, the sun literally never sets... what do you do?
I feel like lots of trolls survived the war of the ring.After all, the stone trolls would be of no use to Sauron due to their weakness of sun and low intelligence, so he probably left them in the trollshaws.Meanwhile Snow trolls again were left alone, being only good for snowy regions and so useless against Gondor or Rohan where snow is rare.Cave trolls likely stayed in the mountains and the caves, since Sauron left them there to guard that area.Hill trolls probably stayed in the hills too.Plus undoubtedly some or many would have fled upon the ring’s destruction, in the film we see the trolls running away even before the orcs do.Trolls are dumb and rather simple, most likely staying content in the remote and wild regions where they would feast on deer and the like, unlike orcs who would target villages etc because of their greater intelligence and malice.Aragorn probably was content to leave them be, and trolls in the hobbit book seem to like living in remote areas away from people generally.They likely survived further into the fourth age, maybe even surviving recent enough to the Middle Ages.
The trolls in the hobbit were literally in a path often traveled specifically to prey upon travellers... That's the whole point of why the dinner party was disturbed to find them there.
Thank you for this look into trolls. That was a fantastic summary at the end how the forth age of Middle Earth may have had trolls. As monstors of Myth they compliment the orc forces as industrialized might much like machines.
I'm going to say that those trolls east of Bree will still be a nuisance for awhile, even though they don't have the will of Sauron calling them to Mordor or whatever.
These are some of My top suggestions on video topics you should do 1. (Theory video) WHATEVER IF SAURON USED THE BALROG IN THE WAR OF THE RING 2. The life and travels of Frodo Baggins-you did Sam, Bilbo, pippin/merry, why not the greatest hero of the third age? 3. The life and travels of Aragon Elessar Telcontar - I mean, the two videos you did about Aragorn's travels after and before the LOTR were ok, but I believe they don't portray the significance of the heir of Elendil. 4. Theory video on the origins of the fell beasts in the style of your Tom Bombadil video-are they corrupt eagles, weak dragons, dinosaurs? 5. What if Saruman gained the one ring? 6. What if Saruman survived into the 4th age? 7.The life and travels of Eldarion, first king of the 4th age. 8.theory video about the entwives 9. Theory video on the the nazgul with unamed origins-are they haradrim, khandings, corsairs, hobbits 😁, middle men? Is the witch king of Angmar a numenorean? 10. Tour of Middle-earth during the third age 11. What happened to the dragons of the withered heath after Smaug? Did they die off, work for Sauron, get killed by Beowulf and St. George 😁? 12.video on Eru Illuvatar 13. Life of Dain Ironfoot and the dwarves of the iron hills 14. Video focusing on the men of Khand 15. The nature of the thrushes and ravens of erebor and Dale 16. The connection between the men of Dale and the men of Rohan 17. Video on Dunlendings/ruffians
I thought it would've been cool if in Peter Jackson's Battle of Five Armies instead of having were-worms burrow into the valley he should have had really big ugly trolls digging the tunnels. Heck, they could even have been called Mole Trolls, or better, Molag-hai.
Same, I've always found them so interesting, it's weird that Tolkien has been so incredibly influential to the fantasy genre but a lot of his central ideas like orcs and trolls as corruptions/creations of magic and his specific interpretation of their forms in general are so comparitively rare.
Tolkien "translates" the red book of westermarch into Received Pronunciation (what Gandalf, Saruman speak), not American English (which is what the UA-cam speaks).
The title and subject of the video immediately made me think of the more hateful aspects of the internet these days lol. A nice polite zinger. I am happy Tolkien lore is being used as a backdrop for fantasy tales, and that the fantasy genre is being supported.
Hey Nerd of the Rings. Maybe you can make a video about "Light". Tolkien's light is pretty different from real light. It's more solid. It hurts those who sinned. It can be preserved and reincarnated. And propably have more features i don't know.
@@AlanHoey86 These fuckin HOBBITS come along, with their waistcoats and their napkins, like dude what are you doin we live in a fuckin FANTASY world, why do you have a pen!? Right?
worth mentioning about the "dumbness: of trolls: one of the 3 from the Hobbit had an enchanted bag in his pocket! and seemed enchanted for him-spoke the same- or by him!!
I wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear Sauron chatting with The Mouth, the Witch-King, and one of the Blue Wizards: "I'm bored, what do you guys want to do today? Oh, I know! Let's make a new improved breed of trolls!"
The part where Gandalf said to Galadriel “get to the choppaaa” brought a tear to my eyes, best adaptation of Tolkien’s work ever. So brave and beautiful! Instant classic.
Tolkien is definitely one of the authors who got my imagination fired up on troll mythology. I love his interpretation of them among the trolls of warhammer.
Stephen O'Rourke 1 second ago Upon reflection of the entirety of Tolkien's works I wish there was more on the ENTS!! A subplot that needed more development!!
Don't agree with your take on the rings of power but at the same time still love your channel. Don't have to agree with everything but I have enough respect as a Tolkien fan, to respect your being a Tolkien fan as well. Keep the lore vid's coming, you're damn talented at it.
While Trolls in Middle Earth are notoriously hard to track down, since they can come from many, if not all, of the races that make up the land, evidence of their existence is relatively ubiquitous. On the notice boards in any public square or tavern from Bree to The Iron Hills, their handiwork is easily spotted. Notices such as “Sauron did nothing wrong” or “Elves have your money” are pretty common but their are many more. It is fair to say that most Trolls are Men but they can also be Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents and yes even Elves.
I wish you mentioned the troll from the poem Perry The Winkle from the book Adventures of Tom Bomadil. It likely is just a story and has no fact to it. Yet still it shows that the hobbits did not view trolls wholy evil as they did with orcs, and that they thought there room for a good troll out there.
Curious about the trolls depicted in the Hobbit movies, specifically the smaller/slender/agile ones in the Battle of the Five Armies. What breed were they?
I'd guess they were an early form of Olog-Hai. Tolkien mentions them being bred in the late Third Age, which can be thought to apply to the events of "The Hobbit" without too large a suspension of disbelief. It should also be noted that they arrived with the Dol Guldur orcs, implying they were probably bred in Mirkwood, which gives more credence to this theory.
That was a fun video, and I was not aware that quite that many troll variations existed in Tolkien's legendarium. It was neat to see how varied this only rarely seen species could be. So, unrelated Tolkien question; why aren't there "evil wizards" in Middle Earth? Okay, so there are; we aren't certain what became of the Blue Wizards, though they might have fallen to darkness, and Saruman certainly did, but Sauron wasn't the only "evil Maiar" in the world. Some lore, or theories, at least, would suggest that each Balrog was some variation of Maiar, much like Sauron, and Gandalf, and there were others, too, who served Morgoth. Why were none of them garbed in the form of imperious sages, and tasked with using their fell magicks upon the Dark Lord's foes? Tolkien treated "magic" as a vague thing; elves were "magical", but didn't use spells, and even literal Wizards, like Gandalf and Radagast, were more talkers then casters, when it wasn't necessary to flex their power, but it almost seems like some dark mages should have existed. Some of the Nazgul are referred to as "mighty sorcerers", though I never remember them using what I'd refer to as magic. A few other humans were seemingly believed to be able to perform some magic; movie Saruman insisted that the Necromancer was merely some hedge mage, and couldn't possibly be Sauron, a Ringwraith, or other darker terror, yet we never see important kings with "court wizards, or even royal sages. Sometimes, I just complain about how little magic there sometimes seems to be, in LotR, no doubt because the D&D I've played for so many years, and which drew some inspiration from Tolkien, among other sources, ma I es or so much more central, but it still surprises me that so many dark forces are purely martial in their methods, and don't use unholy, arcane powers, or something. If the Istari could come yo Middle Earth, in the guise of aged Wizards, why didn't Morgoth turn evil such counterparts against his own foes? Why did Gandalf, and Saruman, have "magic power", but other Maiar seemingly didn't?
Perhaps they thought the Necromancer was one, before they realized it was Sauron. It sounds like he's the only follower of Morgoth who was a maia who survived to the Third Age, unless the Balrog was one.
Human sorcery is generally looked down upon and typically not a good thing. Magic in Tolkien's world is soft magic and not hard magic like dnd. So there is lot's of examples of magic but it's more subtle and not necessarily spoken spells or fireballs or whatever.
@@abnercliff9624 They said D&D was based on medieval warfare gaming. Without Tolkien's works I wonder whether it would even exist and what the fantasy genre would look like, too.
As Abner wrote, magic in Tolkien's legendarium was far more subtle than it tends to be both in D&D and in derivative fantasy fiction. So much so that even the term "wizard" only really applies to the Istari themselves, who were sent by the Valar to Middle Earth on a mission. Galadriel explained herself that she didn't necessarily understand what humans or hobbits meant by the term "magic" as the abilities she and the elves had were natural to them (imagine a wild animal watching a human manipulate items they have created, it might seem like magic to them too). That being said, it is clear that the Nazgul at least were magical and some had been sorcerers prior to becoming Nazgul. It's also said that the Mouth of Sauron had been a sorcerer, and it is implied that he had lived long beyond a natural lifespan as a result to the extent he had forgotten his original name. I think the reason there aren't that many dark mages is that it was probably very difficult to become one. If the Istari had to be literal mortal incarnations of "angels" (Maiar), that should give you a clue as to how difficult it would be. Sure, there were "magical" races but most of them - even dark ones like Eol, who was able to craft at least one magical sword, would not willingly serve Morgoth. It therefore fell to the dark analogues of the Istari - the Balrogs - who were also once "angels" to fulfil this role, even though we only ever hear of them casting magic in Gandalf's account of when he first came across Durin's Bane in Moria before the epic fight. Most of the time, Balrogs are "just" terrifying physical opponents, but they clearly had the ability to cast magic too. Even on the "good" side, there were few who were not Istari that could cast magic. Even Galadriel arguably only achieved the mastery she did because (a) she had studied a long time previously with another Maia, Melian, and (b) since she had one of the Three Rings. Perhaps Elrond's "skill" in healing was also a form of "magic" but we don't know for sure...clearly he had some ability as the flood at the fords of Bruinen were mostly his doing (unlike in the film where they gave that ability to Arwen) with Gandalf only really adding the artistic flourishes of the white horses in the foam. Glorfindel the Noldor Elf clearly had some power too, but he was sent by the Valar back to Middle Earth on his reincarnation and was given a big upgrade to near-Maia level. The higher forms of human like the Numenoreans and Dwarves clearly could create items (e.g. weapons) with subtle magical qualities, but again whether this is magic or "skill" is left to the reader's imagination by Tolkien. To answer your last question, I think all the Maiar had the ability to use magic, even if they didn't grow beards and wear pointy hats (aka archetypal "wizard").
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](/img/n.gif)
Sauron remains the biggest troll of Middle-earth. Dude seriously told Ar-Pharazon to go attack the Valar
The biggest troll of middle-earth wrote the script for amazon's power of the rings.
Go to Valinor and steal immortality, bro! You're stronger than Manwe, bro. Valar ain't got nothin on your huge army, bruv. Dude totally go conquer the gods themselves, bro.
@@alightinthedarkages9494 Yeah, they're totally weak, and Eru Illuvatar never pays attention anyways. You got this!
It was just a prank, bro!
Hhaha
My favorite boromir quote from the movies might just be “They have a cave troll.” I love Sean Bean’s delivery
Ones does not simply slay a cave troll
Because of course they do.
@samrameker watch Sharpe.
My favorite Boromir quote: "By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe."
Okay, thank you for your service.
I just realized something: If Ents get energy from sunlight, like normal trees, then what if Trolls dying in sunlight (turning into stone) is a byproduct of the "counterfeiting" or "mockery" of Morgoth? It's a parallel that might not be intentional, but it's cool either way.
Nice insight!
It does make sense.
That is a beautiful connection I'd never thought of. Well done sir!
The Anti-Ent or Bizarro-Ent.
Happily now my head-canon, neat idea!
I wish the rivalry between the Ents and the Trolls was more developed. I can imagine the war between the two, in which the Ents prove that they are stronger.
While reading that part I thought there would be
Always felt it could have been cooler if like elves and dwarves the initially artificially created orcs and trolls would have their own individuality as antagonists, maybe a might makes right type of deal or a feeling of being stuck as servants to sauron like how a scene in the books played out that Sauron is simply the devil they know and they expect no sympathy from elves, humans or dwarves.
Tolkein did say he wished he could have done more with orcs.
I feel like that warrents some exploration even if simply in the same spirit of the concept.
Upon reflection of the entirety of Tolkien's works I wish there was more on the ENTS!! A subplot that needed more development!!
That is the mystery of Tolkens Midfle Earth. There were so many creatures that fill a role for Good or Evil. However unlike Tolkiens Elves, Men and Hobbits, they are token creations of Mythology that exist to add credence to the story. Afterall, someone has to play the roll of bad guy... with the exception of the three Stone Trolls Bilbo Baggans meets who could of become friends.
In that old War of the Ring strategy game, they had some interesting interactions. If a troll slogged an ent, it kinda rocked a little. When the ent hit the troll, it absolutely floored it and sent it flying back.
The cave troll in Jackson's fellowship is perfect. A scarier upgrade on the 3 bumblers in The Hobbit, one of whom reminds me of football manager Brendan Rogers
😂😂😂 spot on with the Brendan Rogers comparison
Joe Allen, the welsh Xavi
Looks like Brendan Rogers, sounds like Ray Winstone
Every time I hear “Snow Troll” I get flashbacks from my first and traumatic climb to High Hrothgar at The Throat of the World...
(Even though it’s not called that in game)
What game?
@@concept5631 Skyrim
@@JonathanGhost42 Thank ya
You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to RUN.
I Thought of the same exact thing. They were nightmare fuel early game lol
Is it just me or does everyone have that voice in the back of their heads sayin “nooooo” upon seeing the duration of the vid. NODR’s work ethic and dedication to Tolkien’s work are superb that you’d wish there was a 1-hour video about anything and you’d still enjoy it. Your narration and the details u put in sums up the whole puzzle.
As the stone trolls Bilbo encountered provef, there is another thing trolls and ents have in common: taking forever to make a decision. ;)
in my opinion Tolkiens Trolls we’re perfectly portrayed in the Hobbit, we love you Bert ! Trolls are definitely one of the more interesting “Villians” of Middle - Earth
Many things from the "Hobbit" don't add up with the "Lord of the rings".
I liked more Olog-Hai
Rangs of powaa fan spotted
Until you watch Unexpected Journey lmao
I think the first hobbit and the LOTR trilogy both did a really good job, not a fan of the ones from battle of the five armies
If I may get personal.. I apologize if this may be too much for some, but I have to comment...
I've watched so many of your videos. Lord of the rings has been a part of my life for 23 years. I had fallen on dark times for myself and and depression had taken ahold of me a few times causing me to take unfortunate actions towards myself. But I've obviously survived and I wanted to say that your videos have been a huge anchor for me to find mindfulness and peace.
I am greatly appreciative for all you do and the time you spend on all your videos and deep dives into Tolkien.
I apologize if I've divulged too much information, I apologize, but in my world, I cannot act as though things should be hidden when it's come to progress of mental health.
You do much more than you may know, if perhaps you don't know already.
Thank you so much. I will forever be a devoted fan for as long as you continue to produce.
I have started making dioramas from my LOTR collection.
Thank you again!
In the battle of the Pelenore Fields in the Return of the King, Tolkien also refers to “half-trolls.” I was hoping to learn more about them in Thai video
I think there's quite a bit of ambiguity in that Half-orcs, and Half trolls, may well just be names for Olog-Hai and Uruk Hai. I seem to recall there as always some indication both were a result of mixing with human stock, with some being more human than others strains (hence usable as spies). The separation between the Halfs and the Hai's was more a Middle Earth Roleplaying thing IIRC, whereas as in Tolkien it kinda implies they were at least of a spectrum with the warrior Hais, rather than a seperate genus...
@@davidcauley9400 i
The narrator refers to Men that look like half-trolls, not to actual half-trolls. And to be honest, I don't see how trolls would be biologically compatible with Men - unlike orcs, who when Tolkien wrote LotR he considered to be corrupted Elves; though it is unclear if Uruk-hai are bred with Men, since the half-orcs we see are described separately from the Uruk-hai.
7:05
Well, besides your quotation, the best evidence given about two headed trolls would be the Ettenmoors region seen on the maps, derived from the Old English word "Ettin" which has come to represent either a two-headed troll or giant in general. Even Pr. Lewis used a similar location in the Narnia Chronicles with Ettinsmoor.
- take care, Slainte Chugat
The positivity that comes out of this guy in the midst of all this negativity is what makes this my favorite channel. During the watch party when you say "It's ok to love it, it's ok to hate it, it's even ok to just like it, but let's talk about it"... that was really moving (at least for me). nothing but love for those who promote dialogue.. continued success to you good sir ❤
I like how he never crumbled in the face of all the far right culture warrior spergy hate that was levied on his channel over the last 10 months. He took the rational position (judging the show by, you know, waiting for it to be released and actually watching it himself) and never acquiesced to the hate mob like many other youtube grifters did just for views.
@@hannibalb8276 most people disliking on the show are lore purists. i can give you a list a mile long about the lore inaccuracy of the show and sadly for me and many others it pulls me out of the immersion to enjoy the show. it must be nice to blanket all hate under the guise of the far right for every bit of criticism for everything.
@@hannibalb8276 How did the contents of your skull discover and labelled that the opposition came from a "FAR RIGHT CULTURE..."? You know how you are eating a fine meal... only to bite into a completely unexpected object which didn't below to list of components on such meal? Good, now do yourself a favor.
@@hannibalb8276 all you can do is talk about the "far right", the commie channel is somewhere else, go look for it.
And again...Tolkien was a Catholic and a conservative...one of the "baddies", read something else...his work is full of nationalistic pride and love for western values..."white supremacy" in you language.
@@hannibalb8276 and by the way he's not judging impartially...he is VOLUNTARILY omitting any criticism, criticism which is necessary from someone who loves the works of Tolkien (we know Tolkien's opinion Myth and the mistreating of his work). Sorry, you are on the wrong side, the "far right" trolls are Tolkien's defenders and Amazon is a disgusting corporation corrupting this and many other channels. Irony, just like the 9 rings given to men Amazon is destroying the soul of those channels promising them worldly rewards.
Tom Bert and William are the best trolls
They SO are.
I remember my reaction seeing the armored trolls for the first time in return of the king movie when the gates broke. Pretty much like Gandalf my eyes wided, and I was like OMG thats freaking awesome! Their sheer size and weapons as they tore through gondorian infantry was astonishing!
Your voices are really good. As a fellow human who likes to do voices, I thank you.
10/10 on tree beards voice 👍
Gotta give a shout out to Pippin killing a Troll-Chief/saving Beregond at the Battle of the Morannon! In my mind it was a Olog-Hai, and I always wished that part had made it into Jackson's RotK.
Good lord, how much stuff did he change or eliminate? If Pippin didn't kill a troll, then what the heck did he do? He may as well have been sent back to the Shire.
i suppose its because beregond and his whole story isnt in the rotk, which is a shame but i suppose if they had to cut anything it makes sense
@@tedjinks9224 Beregond wasn't there too? I saw the clip where the Steward jumps off the cliff, "thus falls Denethor," but no context. Next you'll tell me they didn't have to deal with Saruman when they get back to the Shire. Kidding-I know they took that out. Still waiting for the remake.
@@sandal_thong8631 the films wouldve been about 18 hours long if they included everything from the books lmao
@@tedjinks9224 he made the Hobbit 18 hours long and that’s just one book.
In an early chart of different creatures, trolls are given the Qenya name maulir. Patrick H. Wynne and Christopher Gilson have suggested that maulir is possibly related to Qenya maule ("crying, weeping"), thus perhaps "referring to cries made by these monsters or to the weeping of their victims".
Can you do a video on Gondor’s navy? Did Tolkien ever write about it? Were there any naval battles in the war of the ring? Why were the corsairs able to sail unopposed into Gondor’s ports (had Aragorn and the oath breakers not come along)?
in the books there are fiefdoms on the coast and it those troops that Aragon brought to Pelennor fields not the ghosts
Thank you my friend for the great narratives whenever I feel the call of middle earth all I have to do is click your channel and here it is a totally emersive dive into the world of Tolkien, thank you for all the great videos.
It is worth remembering that Tolkien took a lot of influence from Norse mythology. Norse trolls are a 'people' but they live outside of civilisation and are generally ill-natured. Later legends describes them as smaller and posibly connected to the earth. A Scandinavial legend states that lightning frightens trolls and also that the bells of churches would drive them away. Grendel (from Beowulf) may be a troll and Egil Skallagrimsson (from Egil's saga) is said to be part-troll.
Tolkien was a scholar of Old Norse and Scandinavian mythology. His trolls are almost entirely lifted from Scandinavian sagas, mythology, lore and fairytales. That they turn to stone in daylight, that they're dumb, eat humans as well as livestock, are all troll features from Scandinavian lore. Trolls also come in sizes from gorilla to as big as mountains. Indeed, the mountains of Norway were, according to lore, simply giant trolls that had turned to stone.
He seems to have missed out on one kind of troll that lived in streams and lakes, Nøkken, but otherwise they're well-covered.
Evolved trolls are entirely of Tolkien's making. Nowhere in Scandinavian lore do you find intelligent and cunning trolls. That role is reserved for Nisser and Dverger.
I can't believe that we get to listen to content of this magnitude for free.
Another great video. Tolkien's variety of trolls is very interesting. I wish they appeared more in the stories but what is there is fantastic.
I've always been intrigued by the idea that trolls are "counterfeits" of Ents. What does that mean exactly? Tolkien wrote that evil could not create, it could only corrupt. So Morgoth didn't create the race of trolls. Did he corrupt an existing race of peaceful creatures in the Elder Days? Or are trolls merely stone statues brought to life by evil spirits and sunlight reverts them to their original state? We really don't know much about their origins.
I personally think that, much like the orcs are a twisted version of the elves, trolls may have been created by Melkor using ents and corrupting them.
This also leads into my theory on the origin of the Olog-Hai. When Sauron burned the gardens of the ent-wives in his flight from the Last Alliance, it is possible that he captured a few of the them and after his defeat he used them to craft trolls with resistance to the sun.
@@drizzmatecI was thinking the same! After all they seem to be very similar to ents, not only the size, but also the way they look
Good to see that you still produce content I can watch without getting spoilers for the Rings of Power! :)
They're not following the lore
there's even more mistakes than there was in The Lord of the Rings movie
@@BlazRa
I know that part already.
Can you do the life of Bard The Bowman next he’s a character I’d like to learn more about
@Aaron Learns Ya and a great follow-up would be the History of Dale
A really well constructed and informative video, thank you. The timing just makes it absolutely sublime ❤
As usual, Clarification is most appreciated!! An obscure corner of Tolkien's creation, but one worth the effort!! Thanks again!! I've probably written this same Kudos a dozen times......
The snow troll scene in the first episode of rings of power give me high hopes .. which were quickly dashed 😂
Just want to say I just found your channel and it’s definitely something I’m going to deep dive into. Seems like a great spot for all that delicious lore that hits the spot.
Was wondering this the other day when watching The Hobbit so glad to see you got a video for it. Great works as always Matt!
Scenario: You´re an ice troll living around the north pole, Helcaraxë maybe. It's that time of the year again, the sun literally never sets... what do you do?
Stay in your cave.
Live in Morgoth's old stronghold where a flame won't give off warmth to the hand
I feel like lots of trolls survived the war of the ring.After all, the stone trolls would be of no use to Sauron due to their weakness of sun and low intelligence, so he probably left them in the trollshaws.Meanwhile Snow trolls again were left alone, being only good for snowy regions and so useless against Gondor or Rohan where snow is rare.Cave trolls likely stayed in the mountains and the caves, since Sauron left them there to guard that area.Hill trolls probably stayed in the hills too.Plus undoubtedly some or many would have fled upon the ring’s destruction, in the film we see the trolls running away even before the orcs do.Trolls are dumb and rather simple, most likely staying content in the remote and wild regions where they would feast on deer and the like, unlike orcs who would target villages etc because of their greater intelligence and malice.Aragorn probably was content to leave them be, and trolls in the hobbit book seem to like living in remote areas away from people generally.They likely survived further into the fourth age, maybe even surviving recent enough to the Middle Ages.
The trolls in the hobbit were literally in a path often traveled specifically to prey upon travellers... That's the whole point of why the dinner party was disturbed to find them there.
Thank you for this look into trolls. That was a fantastic summary at the end how the forth age of Middle Earth may have had trolls. As monstors of Myth they compliment the orc forces as industrialized might much like machines.
I'm going to say that those trolls east of Bree will still be a nuisance for awhile, even though they don't have the will of Sauron calling them to Mordor or whatever.
This video has an epic crescendo -- SO well done
Can we appreciate how much of a grind this guy is on rn 💪 Thanks for all the content!!!
Perfect video topic imo .. many casual fans would want to know more about the lore after watching the first two episodes
The trolls survived and overtime became smaller and more intelligent and now they like to occupy their time messing with people online
I love this channel and I've used the lore I've learned about in an "extension" of the new shadow
Is that posted anywhere I'd love to read it
@@kylemoore687 no sorry its not finished yet
Great video brother keep ‘em coming!! Can’t get enough Tolkien lore!!
Simply the best UA-cam channel on the subject!
They have a cave troll.
Amazing video as always! I usually hear your videos as background music for house chores 😆 cheers!
I love trolls this is gonna be good!!
Gotta love that Ent voice
These are some of
My top suggestions on video topics you should do 1. (Theory video) WHATEVER IF SAURON USED THE BALROG IN THE WAR OF THE RING 2. The life and travels of Frodo Baggins-you did Sam, Bilbo, pippin/merry, why not the greatest hero of the third age? 3. The life and travels of Aragon Elessar Telcontar - I mean, the two videos you did about Aragorn's travels after and before the LOTR were ok, but I believe they don't portray the significance of the heir of Elendil. 4. Theory video on the origins of the fell beasts in the style of your Tom Bombadil video-are they corrupt eagles, weak dragons, dinosaurs? 5. What if Saruman gained the one ring? 6. What if Saruman survived into the 4th age? 7.The life and travels of Eldarion, first king of the 4th age. 8.theory video about the entwives 9. Theory video on the the nazgul with unamed origins-are they haradrim, khandings, corsairs, hobbits 😁, middle men? Is the witch king of Angmar a numenorean? 10. Tour of Middle-earth during the third age 11. What happened to the dragons of the withered heath after Smaug? Did they die off, work for Sauron, get killed by Beowulf and St. George 😁? 12.video on Eru Illuvatar 13. Life of Dain Ironfoot and the dwarves of the iron hills 14. Video focusing on the men of Khand 15. The nature of the thrushes and ravens of erebor and Dale 16. The connection between the men of Dale and the men of Rohan 17. Video on Dunlendings/ruffians
I thought it would've been cool if in Peter Jackson's Battle of Five Armies instead of having were-worms burrow into the valley he should have had really big ugly trolls digging the tunnels. Heck, they could even have been called Mole Trolls, or better, Molag-hai.
Actually he was bringing in one of Tolkien's creatures, Bilbo mentions them briefly before they all leave Bag End
I know that it’s not that way in the books but I did love the comedic delivery of Boromir in film “they have a cave troll” 🙄
In my opinion, trolls, along with goblins, are some of the most interesting creatures in Middle Earth.
Same, I've always found them so interesting, it's weird that Tolkien has been so incredibly influential to the fantasy genre but a lot of his central ideas like orcs and trolls as corruptions/creations of magic and his specific interpretation of their forms in general are so comparitively rare.
@@SaberRiko I agree, and I kind of like that his interpretations of said creatures are more native to Middle Earth; makes it more unique.
I like the Tolkien Trolls, they’re a cool different part to have amongst the rest of the creatures of Middle-Earth 🧙♂️⛰
What about the half-trolls of Harad? Do you think they only descriptions of humans or are they another breed of troll?
There's no other mention to half-trolls with in the History of Arda; their existence is a mere speculation.
Snow Trolls, from the Power of the Rings, are so cool!
❤I love their depiction ❤
Their only weakness - 100 lb women.
@@The_Cyber_Nomad you have not seen what she has seen!!!!
I wish we knew more about the Hill-trolls, they seem very interesting as a race for me!
i’m obsessed with your videos
Aw hell yeah! New video :-) Awesome as always dude.
Nice Video, thank you! I would like to see a video about Bard the Bowman, for me a quite interesting character! 😁
I would absolutely love it if you narrated Tolkien's books.
Tolkien "translates" the red book of westermarch into Received Pronunciation (what Gandalf, Saruman speak), not American English (which is what the UA-cam speaks).
If I remember correctly theres was a mention of troll human hybryds among haradrim
GW even made miniatures of them for lotr sbg
6:34 My ideal definition of a troll. It's the slightly thick lower lip with small tusk like teeth sticking out from behind the lower lip.
Jackson depicted them with perfection . I thought the baddest ones were the ones armored like Uruks
Will you do a lore video on the other wildlife and monsters of middle earth?
The title and subject of the video immediately made me think of the more hateful aspects of the internet these days lol. A nice polite zinger.
I am happy Tolkien lore is being used as a backdrop for fantasy tales, and that the fantasy genre is being supported.
That's a hilarious observation! 😄
Hey Nerd of the Rings. Maybe you can make a video about "Light".
Tolkien's light is pretty different from real light. It's more solid. It hurts those who sinned. It can be preserved and reincarnated. And propably have more features i don't know.
The three trolls in the Hobbit have the same names of my three favorite comedians, Bert Kreischer, Tom Segura, and Bill Burr.
Bill Burr voicing a troll would be hilarious
@@AlanHoey86
These fuckin HOBBITS come along, with their waistcoats and their napkins, like dude what are you doin we live in a fuckin FANTASY world, why do you have a pen!? Right?
worth mentioning about the "dumbness: of trolls: one of the 3 from the Hobbit had an enchanted bag in his pocket! and seemed enchanted for him-spoke the same- or by him!!
I wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear Sauron chatting with The Mouth, the Witch-King, and one of the Blue Wizards:
"I'm bored, what do you guys want to do today? Oh, I know! Let's make a new improved breed of trolls!"
The part where Gandalf said to Galadriel “get to the choppaaa” brought a tear to my eyes, best adaptation of Tolkien’s work ever. So brave and beautiful! Instant classic.
Finally some great Tolkien content not connected to TRoP.😁👍
Thanks!
The snow troll in TRoP was pretty cool, but I'm glad to hear that their was a reason I didn't know about their race befor
Tolkien is definitely one of the authors who got my imagination fired up on troll mythology. I love his interpretation of them among the trolls of warhammer.
The first time I saw a Snow Troll was in Episode One of The Rings of Power.
I really like that music in background
I like the troll with the helmet who bashes in the Gates in gondor and dies that troll was hopped up on somthing
I recommend “The Legend of Olog-hai” by Bridge City Sinners.
Fact: trolls are often too busy on Twitter triggering different kind of NPCs, especially the cave trolls variety
Yeah, I often think that trolls in fantasy lit have nothing on internet trolls.
Stephen O'Rourke
1 second ago
Upon reflection of the entirety of Tolkien's works I wish there was more on the ENTS!! A subplot that needed more development!!
Trolls weak to sunlight, "dull and lumpish"..damn that rings true in 2024 !
Awesome video !
Ents: Exist
Melkor: We do a little trollin
Nice Ent voice. Well acted!
God bless you man,every your video that i watch like i watch movie,well done
Please make a video about the Giants Of Middle Earth please
My favorite Tolkien fact is that Bill had a last name, and it was Huggins.
Don't agree with your take on the rings of power but at the same time still love your channel. Don't have to agree with everything but I have enough respect as a Tolkien fan, to respect your being a Tolkien fan as well. Keep the lore vid's coming, you're damn talented at it.
Great video on Tolkien's troll lore.
While Trolls in Middle Earth are notoriously hard to track down, since they can come from many, if not all, of the races that make up the land, evidence of their existence is relatively ubiquitous. On the notice boards in any public square or tavern from Bree to The Iron Hills, their handiwork is easily spotted. Notices such as “Sauron did nothing wrong” or “Elves have your money” are pretty common but their are many more. It is fair to say that most Trolls are Men but they can also be Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents and yes even Elves.
When I saw the title I thought you were talking about the Amazon Rings of Power show runners lol
Haha, Cockney is "A debased form of the common speech."!!!
I wish you mentioned the troll from the poem Perry The Winkle from the book Adventures of Tom Bomadil. It likely is just a story and has no fact to it. Yet still it shows that the hobbits did not view trolls wholy evil as they did with orcs, and that they thought there room for a good troll out there.
BTW. Have you seen or even heard about Hobbit TV series? Hobbit 1993. It's Finnish adaptation of Lord of the rings books
Curious about the trolls depicted in the Hobbit movies, specifically the smaller/slender/agile ones in the Battle of the Five Armies. What breed were they?
Pure invention of the movies, most likely
I'd guess they were an early form of Olog-Hai. Tolkien mentions them being bred in the late Third Age, which can be thought to apply to the events of "The Hobbit" without too large a suspension of disbelief. It should also be noted that they arrived with the Dol Guldur orcs, implying they were probably bred in Mirkwood, which gives more credence to this theory.
Love your channel, keep it up mate. The positivity is needed.
or hypocrisy, you know he is pretending that sh!!t smells like lavender
@@flvflv4712 so people aren't allowed differences of opinion in your world?
@@contactlight8079 of course, hypocrisy is another thing though
That was a fun video, and I was not aware that quite that many troll variations existed in Tolkien's legendarium. It was neat to see how varied this only rarely seen species could be.
So, unrelated Tolkien question; why aren't there "evil wizards" in Middle Earth? Okay, so there are; we aren't certain what became of the Blue Wizards, though they might have fallen to darkness, and Saruman certainly did, but Sauron wasn't the only "evil Maiar" in the world. Some lore, or theories, at least, would suggest that each Balrog was some variation of Maiar, much like Sauron, and Gandalf, and there were others, too, who served Morgoth. Why were none of them garbed in the form of imperious sages, and tasked with using their fell magicks upon the Dark Lord's foes? Tolkien treated "magic" as a vague thing; elves were "magical", but didn't use spells, and even literal Wizards, like Gandalf and Radagast, were more talkers then casters, when it wasn't necessary to flex their power, but it almost seems like some dark mages should have existed. Some of the Nazgul are referred to as "mighty sorcerers", though I never remember them using what I'd refer to as magic. A few other humans were seemingly believed to be able to perform some magic; movie Saruman insisted that the Necromancer was merely some hedge mage, and couldn't possibly be Sauron, a Ringwraith, or other darker terror, yet we never see important kings with "court wizards, or even royal sages. Sometimes, I just complain about how little magic there sometimes seems to be, in LotR, no doubt because the D&D I've played for so many years, and which drew some inspiration from Tolkien, among other sources, ma I es or so much more central, but it still surprises me that so many dark forces are purely martial in their methods, and don't use unholy, arcane powers, or something. If the Istari could come yo Middle Earth, in the guise of aged Wizards, why didn't Morgoth turn evil such counterparts against his own foes? Why did Gandalf, and Saruman, have "magic power", but other Maiar seemingly didn't?
Perhaps they thought the Necromancer was one, before they realized it was Sauron. It sounds like he's the only follower of Morgoth who was a maia who survived to the Third Age, unless the Balrog was one.
@@sandal_thong8631 originally they thought the necromancer was a ring wraith. Then Gandalf went to Dol-Guldur and learned the truth
Human sorcery is generally looked down upon and typically not a good thing. Magic in Tolkien's world is soft magic and not hard magic like dnd. So there is lot's of examples of magic but it's more subtle and not necessarily spoken spells or fireballs or whatever.
@@abnercliff9624 They said D&D was based on medieval warfare gaming. Without Tolkien's works I wonder whether it would even exist and what the fantasy genre would look like, too.
As Abner wrote, magic in Tolkien's legendarium was far more subtle than it tends to be both in D&D and in derivative fantasy fiction. So much so that even the term "wizard" only really applies to the Istari themselves, who were sent by the Valar to Middle Earth on a mission. Galadriel explained herself that she didn't necessarily understand what humans or hobbits meant by the term "magic" as the abilities she and the elves had were natural to them (imagine a wild animal watching a human manipulate items they have created, it might seem like magic to them too).
That being said, it is clear that the Nazgul at least were magical and some had been sorcerers prior to becoming Nazgul. It's also said that the Mouth of Sauron had been a sorcerer, and it is implied that he had lived long beyond a natural lifespan as a result to the extent he had forgotten his original name.
I think the reason there aren't that many dark mages is that it was probably very difficult to become one. If the Istari had to be literal mortal incarnations of "angels" (Maiar), that should give you a clue as to how difficult it would be. Sure, there were "magical" races but most of them - even dark ones like Eol, who was able to craft at least one magical sword, would not willingly serve Morgoth. It therefore fell to the dark analogues of the Istari - the Balrogs - who were also once "angels" to fulfil this role, even though we only ever hear of them casting magic in Gandalf's account of when he first came across Durin's Bane in Moria before the epic fight. Most of the time, Balrogs are "just" terrifying physical opponents, but they clearly had the ability to cast magic too.
Even on the "good" side, there were few who were not Istari that could cast magic. Even Galadriel arguably only achieved the mastery she did because (a) she had studied a long time previously with another Maia, Melian, and (b) since she had one of the Three Rings. Perhaps Elrond's "skill" in healing was also a form of "magic" but we don't know for sure...clearly he had some ability as the flood at the fords of Bruinen were mostly his doing (unlike in the film where they gave that ability to Arwen) with Gandalf only really adding the artistic flourishes of the white horses in the foam. Glorfindel the Noldor Elf clearly had some power too, but he was sent by the Valar back to Middle Earth on his reincarnation and was given a big upgrade to near-Maia level. The higher forms of human like the Numenoreans and Dwarves clearly could create items (e.g. weapons) with subtle magical qualities, but again whether this is magic or "skill" is left to the reader's imagination by Tolkien.
To answer your last question, I think all the Maiar had the ability to use magic, even if they didn't grow beards and wear pointy hats (aka archetypal "wizard").
What's the name of your outro theme?
I would also love some more middle earth gaming content
would have liked a full out battle between ents and trolls
The biggest troll would be Eru Iluvatar allowing Melkor to believe he got the upper hand in the battle of musical theme.
In the Age of Mythology game when you upgrade trolls they have two heads and are called Hammer trolls