PLASTIC PIPE FOR PLUMBING - Buteline System
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- Here we show you how to install plastic plumbing pipe for you hot, cold, and heating system pipes. We introduce Butleine as great solution for the professional plumber looking to up their game in plastic plumbing installation. We show you how to measure out, cut and clamp the pipe together and how to first fix copper pipe up to the radiators to keep a decorative feel to the 2nd fix of the job.
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I'm not even a plumber and I still keep watching these videos..
Im researching a full bathroom job. Dont fancy paying a plumber several grand! These vids are invaluable. Thank you.
Another entertaining video James well done
11 minute video but for sure is hours upon hours worth of work and post editing, thanking youuuu.
Great vid - would love some tutorials out of this project in the future! Thumbs up.
loved the video i think is fantastic product.
A happy cheerful guy. Like your videos
I love what you doing well done mate
Cracking video Mr James! Hope you have a good bank holiday.
Very nice, thanks.
Lovely neat job
would be great to test all the pipe and push fit available in uk for stress e.g. pull apart test. maximum pressure, heat and frozen test to see how all the pipe par with each each other
Beautiful video editing
Hi mate, great vid bud. I was going to ask about conduit going through the wall but then you explained. We have been using the quick and easy toke to long on the site we are on and gone back to poly.
Alex, your experience with Q & E is one we have herd many times, but you should seriously consider Buteline, 85% of installers tell us Buteline is quicker to install than push fit in a 1st fix environment, there are additional time savings to be had on clipping and testing too, which is only done once and for 30 minutes! As competitive as Push fit, an installation friendly process, it never leaks, completely secure, bomb proof joint that's not reliant on an "O" Ring or insert! Free tools to new users and it available via one of your chosen merchant suppliers send us your contact details and we will come and see you, as seeing is believing :-)
ButelineUK Ltd Just watched the plumberparts video re your product. Very interested in placing an order. Could you let me know if the free tools offer is still in place?. About to start 2 bathroom refits and would love to give your products a try.
Craig Smith give us a call and we will sort it out for you 👍
Brilliant video...why didn’t I become a plumber Earlier in life
Like the new production, seems a bit more flexible than standard pushfit.
Hi Zed Man, you assume correct, our pipe is more flexible, and in some instances could allow you to use upto 20% less fittings . The system cost also works out cheaper than push fit, but seeing is believing, provide us with your contact details and your location and we will get one of our guys to touch base with you and discuss some free tooling for you.
Thought there wasn't going to be any silliness in this video until a few minutes in. I needn't have worried!
Great video but how did you get your insulation to stay in place between the Joists
came a long way buddy. 60k subs well done !
8:35 :) i think that's the best one you've ever said :)
I had a feeling that the host would be British just by looking at the thumbnail for some reason. Great video, really enjoyed watching it. Now shopping for that clamping tool... expensive for a small DIY project :(
Good work, do you recommend using speedfit pipe
There is cooper pipes again! What was the issue in using the flex plastic pipes? No soldering and no mess.
What soldering mat do you use? great video as always
what is the slider system you are using Graham? Also, heard your advert on TalkSport - Top Job!
Nice video and a regular viewer but as a sparky myself I would question those timber drilling zones though for both electrical & plumbing!
why would you question them? they look fine..
Do you still need inserts for these? If not then that can save a lot first fixing a house
Copper forever!
Hi James
Not a plumbing question sorry 😐
But I wanted to know what you thought of the one man plasterboard hoist?
Obviously make life a bit easier but do they get the job done ok?
I’m building a house at the moment and had planned to get one as I’ll be doing the boarding myself.
Thanks 🙏🏼
What about use in concrete floor central heating? I have a 20 foot run in my living room.
does the 22mm pipe work with all other fittings like JG speedfit (if joining on to older work) ?
At 10:39, I think you should avoid two lines cross and touch each other. As pressure changes, the lines make slightly movements, and on crossing spots this is like a slow sawing thru movement. In a few years there will be a leak. Put some thick and soft insulator between them.
"All pipes ar going to be insulated"
Is this different to pert or pex pipe? Im looking to have ufh downstairs on a new build but have another ufh manifold upstairs feeding radiators zoned on both floors. I need a pipe that can take a hotter temp for the radiators. No jpints under floor boards end to end terminations.
Hi excellent video. IS this pipework compatible with combi boilers? And can this pipework be used in a new install into screed floors ? As I don't want pipework work on display Or is copper better for screed floors thanks in advance. Danny
Would it be ok to only use 22mm pb pipe on a complete central heating system and only step down to 15mm when connecting to the copper rad pipes under the floor . The reason I ask is I already have enough 22mm pipe to do the whole system and don't want to buy a roll of 15mm unnecessarily.
Why am I watching this? Im not a plumber or a handyman. It must be his confidence in plumbing, filming, editing and coolness.
Women love him too.
Fiona Gregory housewives favourite.
Is normal electric copper pipe press fit gun ok for crimping buteline if I change the jaw?
I’ve been advised to lag the plastic pipes would you agree with this?
First of all... Nice quidenance.-job
As a plumber I would say that you had not much choice of material to choose from :-D because of small gaps between the joist.Cooper is the best choice if done properly.
Anyway the stuff you are using is the same stuff such as PEX something I did use 11 years ago.So surely nothing new.
I believe that you must have the heating in your house for free for such promo of the company. Clever step.
I wish you good luck I the future an keep up the good work
PB is not PEX. Complete different chemistry. Get you facts straight before you recommend this crap.
Production values just keep on getting better and better, loving your work! About to begin replumbing our old knackered house and I'm almost intrigued to give Buteline a go, maybe... perhaps... possibly...
Hi Daniel, try it, I can assure you that you will become converted, change should only be for the better and everyone that takes the "leap of Buteline faith" never goes back, but seeing really is believing, if you could provide us
with your contact details and your location we will get one of our guys to touch base with you, show you the system and allow you to have a play yourself and discuss some free tools for you at the same time
ButelineUK Ltd you've got me intrigued, I'm all up for change if it's for the better! What's the best way to get in touch?
Hi Daniel, if you can reply with your location and contact number we can get one of our guys to touch base with you and discuss some free tooling.
Can these plastic pipes withstand temperatures of up to 80C
You mention right at the end that all the pipes will be insulated. Do you mean lagged individually or covered by the under-floor insulation?
allanpennington we make this pre lagged too 👍
Buteline, as in polybuteline? If so, you should know that that stuff is so bad that it has been banned from use here in the USA. PEX (poly ethylene crosslinked) is what we use and it is good as long as you know how to install it. There are different systems for it. A few where the fitting goes inside the pipe and one where you expand the pipe over the fitting. Pex has all sorts of adapters to copper. Any time I come across a polybuteline pipe (and there is not much of it because it was quickly banned) I get nervous because the fittings will often simply break apart when you touch them. Here PEX is now the standard because it works well and cost half as much as copper and takes half as long to install. Most plumbers here do not solder much anymore because when working with copper we often use press fittings. Not push on fittings but press it on with a machine.
barneyfilm85 . We Australians consider this buteline, absolute crap. Rehau is far superior.. I agree about the copper. Some of the younger plumbers I supervise, have no idea about welding copper. Use copper B press for every thing.
Air-locks galore. And them fittings reduce flow and makes the water turbulent through the fittings.
But nice job. Don't forget to insulate the pipes going through the timber joists to stop noise and creaking. Aww man do a 90 degree bend into a straight joiner as those elbows have alot or restriction, sorry to be a party pooper. Still love the videos 😅
Fionnan O Brien I bet you're a laugh on a night out! No air lock btw and insane pressure on all outlets. Totally fine.
I love the videos on plumbing disasters. Some of that shit is shocking. I peed a little bit one day at one of the photos you showed. Aww man...... I should have fitted a safety valve to my Stopcock.
Keep em coming James.
Hold tight buddy.
We make this pre lagged too 👍
why would you get airlocks ? do you put a laser level on all your copper through joists? you hardly ever get airlocks on sealed systems. even if you did, turn off some upstairs rads till the pump clears it.
plastic doesn't creak as it expands very little compared to copper.
less resistance due to less tight bends and less fittings, you should try it before slagging it off.
Hi, how do you know when to uses 22mm over 15mm pipes for plumbing in a new bathroom?
In New Zealand our Standards say to use 15mm for basins and 20mm to shower and bath in low pressure system; and to use 10mm for basins, 15mm for baths and 20mm to shower in Mains pressure systems. This is based on max pipe lengths of 20 meters.
ButelineUK Ltd which of your merchants offer the free tooling? Fitting a complete Combi heating system in my house would like to use buteline.....
great video James and great efforts from yourself.
I'm not really seeing any great advantages of the buteline that would make me want to start using it, maybe I'm to old school. Is buteline the same system they had big trouble with out in the states ?
i watch a few american plumbers and they love this kinda stuff.. but the americans are about 20 years behind us on plumbing.. they still use boilers the size of a car to heat there house and hot water heaters.. oil fired cast iron boilers and some places use condensate plastic glued fittings as water supplys......... i dont like this system. imagine going to do a repair on this under a bath.
The American system is completely different 👍
What about pressure testing? And if the joints leak do you just cut the pipe and reseal?
Paul Capel if in the unlikely event you hadn't fully clamped a joint, you can re-clamp again in the same place 👍
Buteline could make the copper adapters with a bit more of a radius like copper elbows. These looks like a tight 90° which will affect flow
Hi....Our Elbowed soldering tails are manufactured with virtually the same internal radiuses as end feed, and the extremely flexible Buteline pipe will allow you to greatly reduce the overall use of restrictive fitting's and thus will create more "sweeps" in pipe. More sweeps, less fittings, less fittings means greater flow rates and increased efficiency in the delivery of water at its destination, making heating & hot water systems more cheaper to run.
Can you send me some info on the free tools for spending over 300 quid please? Will
Hi Will if you can provide us with your contact details and your location and we will get one of our guys to touch base with you and discuss some free tooling for you.
ButelineUK could you please send me some info on the free tools on spending more than £300 please
is this the same buteline pipe that is banned in the states where pex is preferd
Like the idea of this product but would not use due too the bastard 16mm size. Would also be useful if you could use a compression fitting straight on to the pipe as you would with hep and speedfit
David Smith they do make a compression coupling too
Compression fittings are available 👍
I just had a massive house renovation on my first property and my father is worried the builder did a cowboy job of installing plastic radiator underfloor pipes to feed to the radiator copper pipe, can someone tell me if i should be worried and if my home insurance will be void? Also, father mentioned there is a concern it may not tolerate the hot water and high pressure. Please can someone put me out of my misery, I would honestly appreciate it so much! Thank you everybody and to whoever responds to me. God bless.
Why use 16 mm, annoying for other plumbers /trades if they damage the existing pipe or maybe when they need to tee of the existing pipe work for another radiator in the future maybe.
Future headache I think 🤔
now you mention it , yeah wats up with that
Cause in the future copper will disappear, especially for drinking water, and any plumber will have to learn and use this new system, like the rest of the world has already been doing for the last 10 years, but England of course is always the last one to adapt. We still have hot and cold water coming from different taps or from the same tap but to be adjusted singularly by the user unlike the rest of the world has been using a single lever mixing cartridge for at least 20 years by now. We need to evolve and upgrade not the opposite.
@@antoniogalluccio4213 I disagree, copper has withstood the test of time, plastic is yet to be tested to that extent.
Just a rubber o-ring to seal a joint that will have its temperature as high as 80 degrease and then back down again to around 20 again. expanding and contracting the plastic pipe constantly is going to put so much strain on just that rubber o-ring...... I’m not to convinced my self.
P.S Moved from London to Australia in 2019, worked as a plumber on plenty of building sites so far, all off them favouring copper.
Informative video as always, but I prefer your older more raw videos without all the sound bites etc.
I thought plastic pipes were frowned upon since if you drive a nail into one by accident, the plastic envelopes the nail almost completely, not alerting you to the fact and then start to leak later on?
what size is the bore for them fittings
The internal bore size of our fittings are slightly larger than a pushfit style fitting after the pipe has been inserted into the fitting and an insert used, remember Buteline is an internally sealing system that requires no inserts nor does it have any 'O' Rings, the Buteline fitting also has a defined chamfer design on the inside of the fitting tail that promotes the increased flow of water. In general, but mainly down to the increased flexibility of our pipe, the flow rates achieved using the Buteline system are greater than other systems.
why do people put rads under windows, all the heat straight out the winda. Much rather get a tall floor to ceiling rad behind a door or something where the space isn't usually used. then you can put your dresser/ chest of drawers under the window or a window seat. good vid showed me loads of useful tips
Hmm I was taught when soldering onto brass, heat the brass not the copper otherwise the solder can run before the brass is hot enough and make a bad connection. I'm not sure how much truth is in it but when I've come across copper pipes that just pull out of brass bayonet back plates for example, I always blame the previous engineer for not heating the brass.
I think it’s good but the internal diameters are small. So it’s not ideal for replacing micro bore to upgrade flow rates.
Nice work mate, do they make a battery powered crimp machine?
Yes they do
Link me up please :)
Check out their product catalogue www.buteline.com/showfile.php?downloadid=226
where do you go to get the tools free with the big orders? Had a look on the buteline site but can't see any links on there.
Hi Joe, send us your contact details and location and we will arrange for someone to make contact with you and arrange free tooling on your behalf via your chosen merchant route :-)
ButelineUK Ltd hi thanks its joe_turner_2303@hotmail.com. Wolverhampton area thanks
You're probably the coolest fucking plumber in the world.
I wish my wife said that!
I Dont know man, Im pretty cool myself 😂😂
Whats the point if you still have to use adapters for solder and compression. Compression fittings go straight onto speedfit. To use it effectively you need a big van stock and who stocks them? I haven't seen butfit in any merchants. #xpress #mapress
David Pawson I really don't get the advantage of this press fit stuff requiring clamping, over speed fit, polypipe, hep.
And what's with the bastard size "16mm". Push fit ( touch wood) has never let me down
Tom Strutton yorkshire xpress uses 15mm copper not butlines 16mm plastic. I find advantage of xpress copper
1. no hot work permits
2. speed of installing. I save on average 1hour on a boiler swap
3. no flux
4. can crimp directly onto chrome pipe no need to take chrome off.
5. If you forget to crimp a joint you don't need to drain system
6. Can crimp onto old pipe no need to wire wool
7. Its a little bit cheaper than speed fit
8. Looks a lot more professional than speed fit
9. My work is recognisable. I dont solder any more. If someone put my name to someone else's dodgy work and its soldered it isnt my work
From a thermal efficiency any plastic pipe is much better than copper even without any insulation. it's cheaper too!
push fit is DIY tonk..................I'll leave that shit to the Polish or DIYers. barrier pipe is great, but as long as you use compression or this stuff
another advantage is, copper will split on the first freeze, barrier has give and they say it can be froze 6 times before it splits. yet to see any splits on barrier that hasn't been insulated yet tho
I can't believe PB is still used!
richard wysham why is that?
Buteline North London PB started out as the new best thing since sliced bread. It was flexible, resistant to corrosion and cheap. Pb was installed in millions of caravans(mobile homes) in the U.S. during the late 70's. By the early 90's it was the subject of huge class action lawsuits. Failure of the fittings, failure of the crimps. As an aside, I think the original 'sharkbite' fitting was designed to repair PB. To me the biggest failure was this. Rodents love to gnaw on it. Is there anywhere in the world free of rodents? Copper is antibacterial, PB, PEX and CPVC are not. Without getting too deep in the weeds.. Say some company comes out with a new product in plumbing. In researching the product, they look at how often it's purchased. The chart says a water system lasts, on average, 20 years(guess) To them, it's a good product because it doesn't fail until 25 years out. I want my install to last a thousand years... well, maybe 75. Big selling point of these products is'labor savings'. Why the hell would I want to save labor? That's how I make money."It's so easy, anyone can do it!" Yeah? Then why do you need me? That way, it ends up like here. In a 50 mile radius, not one plumbing business with multiple employees.They're all 1 man operations and no unions Quality is shit
richard wysham I had a feeling you were going to say that. FYI the pipe we supply in the UK is not the same as the pipe that used to be installed in the US with the issues you mention. We are aware of the failures there but this is not the same company, system or pipe.
It's a cheap inferior version of PEX pipe. It should be banned by now.
The internal bore of those fittings must restrict the flow of water
Daniel Stevens the internal bore is bigger than any pushfit fitting with and insert. The internal spigot is also designed to promote the flow of water unlike a flat ended insert. You will also find that because of how you can bend our pipe unlike other plastics you will use up to 15% less fittings depending on the install which will again add to the flow as there are less restrictions and more sweeps rather than tight bends. We can come and show you with a hands on demo and you can see for yourself and have a go 👍
Home run?
So, what do homeowners need you for?
Hello mate, see if you can get Buteline to send you 5x their pro starter kits to give away in the next vid. I'd like to give their stuff a go.
Why not send us your contact details and your location, we will touch base with you and arrange for one of sales managers to come and visit you, show the product and discuss maybe a set of FREE tools ;-)
I'm probably not your target market, I do a few house renovations a year not day-to-day plumbing work. Never the less I'm willing to spend a few hundred quid on some pipe and fittings if you can chuck in the tools.
Not a problem, if you can reply with your location and contact number we can get one of our guys to touch base and discuss some free tools.
Ello Mates, I am a licensed plumber in the usa. Just gotta tell ya this Crap has been banned in the US for over 30 years! its refered to aS 1-800 LAWSUIT. Shell Oil made the polymer and is still paying for it.
Can't connect to copper though without soldering which is a let down...
Edvinas Narijauskas they do conversions with compression fittings too. 👍
I wonder if anybody done any long term tests on how long plastic pipe lasts, due to embrittlement and the expansion/contraction from heating/cooling.
don't worry...the mice will nibble holes in them before they get brittle.
@@lapisredux - I worry about that too! It seems insane to create a nice warm, nibbly place for mice to bed down. But then again my rubber electric cables seem to have escaped that fate (or there’s a lot of fried mice down there).
@@Benzknees mice can sense water and if it's inside a nice chewy plastic pipe and they're feeling thirsty............
@@lapisredux - Haha, which they will be after a nice meal of pasta shaped arsenic.
Great video! Quick question - my combi boiler is fitted upstairs top floor (new build, 3 storey), I seem to get ‘Waterhammer’ in the plastic pipes when opening & closing the taps, only the hot water side, any ideas to fix mate?
Urwa Yusuf does your combi boiler have a anti-water hammer fitted?
Harry Wooldridge I don’t think so.
Similar to the auspex crimp system. Although I've never seen a manual crimp tool before... does it actually compress fittings to a consistent standard?
vImprOv yes it does, would you like to have a go and see for yourself?
great vid so would you never use speed fit? surley speedfit is better as you can take it off and re alter if its wrong. the stuff in the vid looks like its knackered if its in the wrong place?
robert Griffiths you can dry fit this system in case of a mistake etc and once you are happy then clamp. Same as solvent weld before you glue.
get u mate. end of the day what are we saying better than copper?
robert Griffiths joints are stronger and far quicker to install. Would still go copper tails where it is visible though.
this many advantages over copper, cheaper, faster, less joints, slow sweeping bends (so less resistance) cleaner, less thermal conductivity (less heat loss and lower risk of legionnaires) easy to pull through joists ( nightmare with copper). won't split when froze. wont suffer electrolitic corrosion when pipes touch, wont corrode from cement, no pipes knocking from heat expansion, no water hammer.
disavantages, joints more expensive, doesn't look as neat as copper when run visibly ( I always use copper or chrome tails). cant run on flow or return directly on boiler. obviously cant be used for gas, possibility of mice chewing it, although I've never seen it. and gives the sparkie a headache when fitting the earth on the incoming main. that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
this stuff will NEVER replace copper, but its awesome for running under floors, as long as you don't use pushfit, that stuff is cowboy dogshit
@@davelaye7003 Dave Laye Excellent information which I found more informative than this video itself. You say push fitting is bad but what's the alternative? Compression fittings? Thanks
You're not sponsored by Bute, are you?
Do you think that plastic pipes will take over from copper pipes? The reason I ask is because I was recently working in Uplyme in Dorset. I met a couple who's son had built his own house and put plastic plumbing in. A few months later his house flooded. It turns out that rodents had chewed through the plastic pipes. He had to do it all again with copper pipes. That must have been a nightmare for that chap!
exactly!...very few houses escape an occasional mouse invasion and they chew up anything softer than their teeth.
my issue with this would be its alot slower than push fit.. and also if any other plumber went on a job where this stuff is all installed then he is going to struggle to connect to it without having the crimpers or fittings in stock...... most plumbers have a large variety of stock including myself but nothing like this....... also what if this pipe is leaking in a very tight spot like under a bath? you cant connect onto it and you cant get the crimp in to use it... its ok if its first fix but try doing repairs or get into tight spots with it, would be a nightmare....
brendan west yorkshire
Hi Brendan, your would be right in concluding the most effect use of Buteline would be in a 1st fix environment hands down, this is what our customers tell us. No real system provides a "one size fits all" solution and there are times where getting your hands in a gap with a pushfit fitting suits, but that's if you happy with the security of "O" ring based systems? our systems is fitted slightly differently to other systems as its permanent, so like copper, in hard to get to areas where you may choose to "pre fab" first or alternatively use the flexibility of our pipe to clamp outside and push it back in, a little bit difficult to explain over text.
Brendan Fisher
The
if a plumber is fitting Pushfit under a floor....he ain't a plumber
Hep2o everywhere even up into radiators. Bish bash bosh
does this video come in English
No, but your Mum does! 😜
Uponor QE system problem solved
Not a big fan of this stuff...... splits lengthwise where clipped improperly or any pressure has been put on the pipe. (pipe accidently stepped on by other tradesmen etc)
Even some of those long radius bends for extra flow i have seen pipe failure on the stress point.... Don't get me started on the failure rate of long coils of this stuff too.
Im definitely seeing this stuff fail alot after 10-15 years even with proper installation procedures and clipping.
Some houses seem to hit a use by date where it lets go... one leak is fixed only for another section to burst and repeat. Buteline is supposedly stronger then PEX but i have yet to see PEX fail the same way.
Agreed, See my public comment I just made. In the USA this material has been used for years and they now know it also degrades and starts to burst.
Have problems with a 3 year old vailiant boiler fitted by britist gas, 3 times now its broke down, this time the heat exchanger burst and british gas are blaming the plastic pipes!!
sorry was havin a bad day
Bit of a mare getting them clamps in tight spaces
exactly my thoughts... try getting them under a bath to repair on a pipe when your up to the nuts stretching right out..
It's easier than you think guys, why not have a hands on demo and try it? 👍
Nice video but You are reducing the inner diameter
and the rate of flow
I like you
Lagging man.!!!
Expansion loops!!
Can you cover this in an other video.
So this isn't the same poly-b from the 90's that was used in the USA.
No, it's a modern version, but easy to get confused on first look.
This probably is used in house bashing but it would never be used on real plumbing jobs such as office blocks, hospitals and schools.Always copper soldiered or brazed depending on the size.
It must be so handy for your wife to be married to a plumber, and one who can sing and loves cats too. Excellent.
Polybutelene has been completely discredited in the USA. Its considered low grade. PEx is concidered higher grade and copper is top grade. They used polybutelene there years so they have experience of it. Over time it degrades and breaks down, blocking up and bursting. Now houses over there with polybutelene pipes stuff in for 20 years can be hard to mortgage and insure unless you rip it out.
6 tonnes of pressure behave lol
lol
This is just an advert. Stop watching it. Back to the old videos please
Bloody hell, what's your sparky on?
ua-cam.com/video/TIiqviHLChw/v-deo.html
James are you on DIYnot.com? They are talking about how white your teeth are mate
Oh great, ANOTHER completely different pipe system, cause I don't have enough adapters already. I don't really see any benefits of this to the existing plastic systems, looks a bit more inconvenient if anything.
Is copper pipe now officially dead?
no "hold tight", no like.
whatch his other videos and you will understand :)
Anwor Ali it's the classic catchphrase "HOLD TIGHT!"
White Master Mariner it's his catchphrase
16mm nut compatible with any other system then😡
I love all your videos but the pipe is crap and Tha crimp seal lacks luster. Wirsbo is the best pipe and has proper seals on fittings..
Steven Shelton why is that? Have you installed lots of Buteline in the UK? Be interested to know
This stuff is crap. Was fitted to my bungalow by a so called professional. I spent most of the first winter looking at the ceilings checking for the next leak. Appalling stuff. Joints can be twisted so bound to leak. Honestly, in my opinion avoid this stuff at all costs and fit copper. I stripped the whole lot out and did a re install. Do the job properly and do it once!
Adrian Wilding perhaps the issue was the "so called professional" as you say.
nope it is the pb pipe, was outlawed back in the 70s
symbiotic venom outlawed where???
wtf????
I've searched around and there doesn't seem to be any movement to ban PB here in the UK. All they seem to have done is add a barrier film to the inside to resist oxidation. Some manufacturers offer a 50 year guarantee, so they seem confident. I guess maybe the US was unlucky early adopters.