The Case Against 'Avatar: The Way of Water' (with Walter Chaw from Film Freak Central)
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2023
- David Chen is joined by Walter Chaw from Film Freak Central to discuss the problematic nature of 'Avatar: The Way of Water.'
Read Walter Chaw's review: www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/...
Follow Walter Chaw on Twitter: / mangiotto
Back David on Patreon: / davechen
Subscribe to David's Newsletter: www.davechen.net/letters
Listen to David's podcast: podcast.decodingtv.com - Фільми й анімація
I don’t know Walter, but i feel he’s overly negative here. Dave articulates his points a bit better too imo.
Walter does a good job articulating why this movie is mediocre and average, tbh
He’s openly negative here.
Considering how bad and generic this film is, I don’t blame him
I for one welcome this personal attack on Jeff Cannata.
Something always rubbed me the wrong way about Jake Sulley and your appropriation discussion helped clarify it for me. He really is a white savior. I would be completely down with him being chosen as the general to lead the war on behalf of the Navi (or at least a top advisor) as he genuinely brings to the table knowledge of human culture and military tactics that none of the Navi have. And if you are going to fight humans that is a huge benefit. But making him the leader of the tribe and the guy everyone looks up to is a whole different level that makes no sense.
On a separate note, I'm not clear why you are so specific about the Metkayina being Maori. I saw them as more general Polynesian. Maybe I'm just not as familiar with the culture but what makes them Maori but not Hawaiian, Tongan, Samoan, etc.?
That’s an extremely racist thing of you to say. It comes off like your anti white. It’s weird man.
Jake was definitely the main protagonist/ savior/ hero. He so happens to be white but what gives?
You have no issue with protagonist hero’s until they’re white and I find that view extremely disgusting.
This movie at best ignores the sins of the first movie and at worst doubles down on them, in terms of the botched subtext.
So… to put bluntly, it’s a mediocre sequel to a movie that was mediocre.
👍Got it
I feel bad for the younger actors in this movie. They deserve better than this meh/average garbage. They seem very charming and likable but they need more than this meh material
I quite enjoy the conversations you post David! Thank you!
Love this dude and his content
Glad I'm not the only one who thought Spider was basically the feral child from The Road Warrior.
Ripping off a character from another movie is TIGHT!
I so appreciated this and always want more collaborations with you and Walter!!
Always a good time when Walter and David discuss movies
I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't love it. There are things I liked about it, but definitely things I didn't. Does the medium of cinema need to be pushed? Some people may think filmmaking can be an art form. I'm one of them. Enough action, let's push for art.
The audio sync on this video is a little off.
Ah, nevermind, My video player's audio just de-sync'd.
Solid discussion dudes!
you guys dropped this 👑
Walter is so dang funny here. You two strike a good balance. Would love to see you more of you two reviewing movies.
They’re awesome and they do a good job reviewing this
David and Walter should do this weekly. I'd watch!
7:00-10:00 While David is talking about the film, Walter: yes, yes, when are we going back to the fact that this movie is horrendously, horribly racist and kills babies! Good discussion though afterwards.
The problem is when you take the criticism to avatar to other movies every movie falls apart. Top Gun maverick is unwatchable if you use the same criticisms
Really appreciate Walter sounding off on all the colonial bullshit and racism in the movie. Indigenous people have ringing the bells about how offensive this film series is since the first Avatar, but because it's everyone's favorite film bro James Cameron, and because they're Indigenous people, their grievances are completely unheard
Enjoyed the talk, but I’m confused after hearing him talk the way he talks about TWOW on the Filmcast and on this video. Why did David give this a 3.5 on Letterboxd and even “like” it? I’m guessing after sitting with it he would give it a lower score.
I was by far the most negative on the Filmcast so not sure what you’re referring to there
@@davechensky My apologies, I expressed myself poorly. I meant that the LB score seems high considering that dialogue and this one. I was wondering if it was one of those things where initial impressions maybe faded a bit when you sat and chewed on it. That the problems became more pronounced and overshadowed the elements that you enjoyed - which makes total sense. But honestly talking about scores on letterboxd is about as lame as it gets, so my bad :D Really enjoyed both discussions!
Really appreciated this conversation, and I enjoy both movies. Would love to see you have this kind of conversation with someone like Richard Newby as well.
I love how Walter just doesn't give a fuck and will just say it as it is
The movie looks meh and story looks generic and average but the younger cast look awesome and I hear they did a good job
While I consider the writing to be simple I personally I think the negative impact of cultural appropriation is being widely overblown.
I also think that, just based on interviews with James, he didn't add Native Americans in the story to highlight their past but more so added them because in his experience they were a culture that did value nature. So I see him taking inspiration from Native Americans in order to further his envionmentalist views. He isn't telling a story about Native Americans first and foremost the message is nature.
Because of this viewpoint I don't consider him being malicious towards the representation of the na'vi. This is kind of like how Turning Red and Encanto told a story about generational trauma because those cultures have experince in that sort of thing.
I consider Encanto to be a better movie than Avatar 2.
In Encanto, you care about the story and characters and the theme of family and takes a better time fleshing out it’s narrative and setting
Avatar 2 is very generic and meh and looks very basic and silly and I feel terrible for the younger actors for starring in this mediocre fluff
@@chasehedges6775 Jesus, shut up.
@@chasehedges6775 Encanto has a story? 😂
@@davadh Yes. A very relatable one for anyone in Latin America
Jeff Cannata response video??
I love Walter, always great hearing him talk about movies. So articulate and effortlessly funny!
I personally felt so cheated by this movie. There's no denying JC is a great filmmaker and when you're watching it on 3D IMAX you can't escape its immersive nature. I think the action is entertaining, the movie is funny - even if unintentionally - and it's just like Jeff said on the Filmcast, an Avatar movie is basically its own genre, there's not much to compare it with.
But it's so goddamn dumb and it thinks so little of its audience. I left the theater mostly satisfied but every minute I spent thinking about it after the fact, I think less of the movie and less of myself for getting swindled so easily. And I think I'll go crazy if I keep hearing people praise things like Sigourney Weaver's performance. Not that she's bad at all, it's just that that character is written like it was generated from an AI prompt, so empty and devoid of reason to exist.
Agreed wholeheartedly with your comment.
It’s so dumb and think so little of its audience.
Nailed it.
I think Sigourney Weaver deserves better than this.
I enjoy a good discourse with Walter Chaw.
Great talk.
Awesome video
I wanted to get another point of view on this movie and was willing to listen. The high frame rate I can understand because I heard it didn’t work for a lot of people. The movie taking beats from the first movie, I can also understand how that would be annoying to some. Saying it’s “cheap” to reincarnate Quaritch by downloading his memories into an Avatar, I’ll still be on board, even though I think now y”all might just be getting petty. But then y’all lost me when y’all said this movie is racist. I’m sorry you two feel offended over a culture that you admit isn’t yours being used for inspiration. And for calling those who like and are willing to roll with it “idiots,” then yeah, obviously something else is bugging you about this movie.
The dreadlocks seemed acceptable since that’s the way Na’vi wear their hair and he has been raised as/grownup with them.
Though what do you really think about the movie? 😉
Walters interpretation of high frame rate is probably his weakest argument here
Yes, finally a few people that reflect my view on the movie.
Same. This movie looked average from the trailers
love the two of yall!
They’re great
Darn... Thought this was going to be a thoughtful discussion about nuance. Walter was clearly offended by the film, which I can understand for the most part. However I don't feel like I gained much from watching this discussion, but maybe it's a meta way to discuss a film that made him feel the same way. Complaining in circles, but thanks for sharing your views!
I fucking love Walter Chaw
Walter nailed it.
He really did. His take on this movie is the best. 👍💯
Dave, why can’t you just love things?
😂
Critical thinking
I enjoyed the movie too, but I’m open to hearing what other people have to say about it. If you’re not interested in listening, you do you.
@@ofthewilderwoods👍. Same
Avatar 1 and 2 are some of the most mediocre movies ever made and James Cameron peaked at T2.
This has been such a terrible and mediocre decade for film, with a few exceptions like The Northman and Top Gun Maverick
Holy shit HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
“This is a terrible decade for film except for these two HARDCORE DUDE MOVIES I’M ABOUT TO NAME.”
Grow up you absolute dork, and see more movies.
Wrong
@@Redjack10I’ve seen plenty of movies that are better than Avatar LOTR, for instance
Love how Top Gun unashamedly made Russians the bad guys?
Avatar 2 is miles ahead of both of those films 😂
Podcast starts ... "The movie is terrible written" . An unfair assessment . I'd sit and listen to a well thought critic about why you did not like nor enjoy the movie . But when you just try to destroy an overall well made movie I just can't.
It’s cool man. I liked but didn’t love the movie , same with its predecessor and I actually agree with some of the points you made here. I had a similar experience with Maverick last summer I didn’t hate it but I didn’t like it that much either but I felt it had some spectacular moments.
Is it wrong to think that cultural appropriation is actually a really wonderful thing. ??
I don't agree with many of the points, but you both made me think much deeper about the film. And that's always worth the listen.
Now "The Case Against EEOAO"
0:40; would specifically describe it as loved by the general audience given its 'A' CinemaScore; 92% RT Audience Score & 91% PostTrak Score and subsequent near $2bn box office, but only liked not "beloved" by critics given its 77% (7.1/10) RT Score & 67/100 MetaCritic Score. A "beloved" movie for me usually has a 90%+ RT Critics Score & 80+ MetaCritic Score as well!
You guys have taken what is basically an amusement park ride of a movie, a little too seriously. lol.
Love the film but appreciate the critique!
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It's a big dumb action movie.... can it just be that
It doesn't thrive to be that and doesn't need to be 3h long to be that
👎👎👎👎👎👎 It should be a GOOD action movie where you care about the characters and story. That’s what I want
I hated Avatar 2. Without the visuals, I think it'd be considered on par with Battlefield Earth.
70% of it is just a rehash of the first movie except with water Na'vi. Aside from the horrendous cultural appropriation, the story beats are off. No other animal on Pandora can speak and then all of a sudden the whale can speak with that 2nd son. Why wasn't the reunion with the water tribe shown first?
Why make such a huge deal about the kids learning to hold their breath when it's not used later on in the film? Why didn't MuhJake learn to hold his breath? Why wasn't it a bigger deal that Quaritch isn't a real Na'avi that isn't one with the magical planet? Because we're waiting for his face turn in one of the future movies? And the whole plotline with Spider was laughable.
And now we know that Avatar 3 is going to be about some fire tribe so we'll get to go through some more learning about a new tribe before some fight with Quaritch. Is Avatar 4 going to be about a desert clan? Maybe Avatar 5 we'll discover a space clan.
I did enjoy the HFR/VFR. The action was much clearer and it was much better done than The Hobbit.
Without the visuals, it’d be considered on par with Battlefield Earth
The movie is mediocre but it doesn’t come close to that abomination of a film
70 percent of it is just a rehash from the first movie.
Looked pretty evident from the trailers
Really enjoying Walter’s snobbery! More of this!
I just watched an extremely well-done critique of TWOW and of its scenario in particular. Spoiler: it concludes that it is actually quite good! Things are explained and justified, not just stated in derogatory tones like this guy Walter is doing! I'd love you David, and your audience, to watch it, as it is just a level above... actually more than one! Unfortunately, it is in French... but to those who understand French, here is the link: ua-cam.com/video/zr5CtrlMF7Q/v-deo.html
If you dissect every movie, looking for flaws, you are not gonna enjoy most movies.
Sometimes the whole idea of Cinema is pure entertainment
Walter is his usual cheery self as always…