"S" is for Speed - Prusa MK4S
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Thanks to NordVPN for sponsoring this video! Check them out at nordvpn.com/ma...
And if you order a MK4S, you can use code MadeWithLayers and Prusa will chuck in an extra free spool of Prusament PLA (valid until August 26th, 2024) go.toms3d.org/...
3Dbenchybenchybenchybenchy www.printables...
Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you)
🎥 All my video gear toms3d.org/my-...
I use Epidemic Sound, sign up for a 30-day free trial here share.epidemics...
🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! / @themeltzone
👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! / toms3dp
Thanks to NordVPN for sponsoring this video! Check them out at nordvpn.com/madewithlayers
And if you order a MK4, you can use code MadeWithLayers and Prusa will chuck in an extra free spool of Prusament PLA (valid until August 26th, 2024) go.toms3d.org/prusa/
"Hot goth girlfriend" is not a phrase I expected to hear used to describe a printer... but it fits the Magneto X at its current state. 😂
At that point i was thinking that the prusa is wife material XD.
But injection molded LCD cover? really? I Hope there's a 3d printed version file out already.
@@itsGeorgeAgain prusa themselves have a printable version of it. Probably the standard mk4 screen cover also works. Downside is that you miss out on the stickers/pad print that comes on the kit/assembled machine and need to be bought extra
now i want a Magneto X...
@@itsGeorgeAgain injection molded parts are what you want for consistency. It blows my mind that people actually want the 3D printed parts but I guess everyone has their own style. As long as the parts files were available, I would happily want everything on my XL to be injection molded if possible.
@@falxonPSN I think for most 3D printing enthusiasts, they're less concerned about consistency and looks and more about the practicality of making it yourself faster, cheaper, or customized. That said, I think it's fine if the printer comes with an injection molded cover. I personally don't care, though I do think it's cool when the parts are printed by the same model I bought. It's just important that it is also available for printing, as it already is on Printables.
All of those "not exciting" qualities are precisely why I love my MK4
This right here.
💯
No one is an "Inkjet Printer Hobbyist" we just File > Print and get paper off the printer. Until recently 3D printers weren't like that, running the printer was as much the hobby as using the things you made with it. The Mk4 is the closest I've ever seen to a printer you can just use.
Yes, the hot exciting thing about a Prusa is that it just works. It’s a tool not a project.
Exactly, he talking about nothing exciting and then he says really exciting stuff.
The MK4s is Debian Stable, The Magneto X is Arch Testing.
MK3S+ Debian stable
MK4 Debian unstable
MK4S Debian testing
Such a great analogy. Perfectly sums up my entire experience with Prusa printers.
Is bambulabs then Apple?
And creality is android
@@p-thorThat would be ultimaker i guess.
Personally, when I bought my Mk4, I only had two complaints:
uneven part cooling, and a lack of *usable* GPIO, despite having pins available, and the codebase mostly there. This fixes both of those, and I am 100% buying it, because $100 is a whole lot less expensive than the dev time it would have taken me to get there. I fully approve of incremental changes and upgrades.
Biblically accurate benchy
The Magneto X is the "hot Goth Girlfriend", the MK4S is the "Childhood Friend girlfriend."
Girl next door
The prusa is the reliable old wife
I have to argue that "it just works" IS the standout feature, maybe one that the general public doesn't appreciate as much, but at the end of the day, it's the most important thing, and nobody seems to do that better than Prusa.
I currently have my MK3 and my (~1 month old) MK4 standing next to each other and printing in parallel. I always thought that the MK3 is already pretty good at "it works", but the MK4 feels sooooo much more "it just works" :)
Most 3d printers today would just work unless its something like a Voron.
How about the XL when it was released? It did not “just work”.
@@JojoJoget Sure, they’ll all print a speed benchy, but if you want to do functional parts, Prusa printers will print them the size you need them on day 1. Bambu printers won’t, for example, they need tweaking.
@@JojoJoget Most of the printers will just work out of the box, but after ? Having a BambuLab X1C, sometimes I miss the "it just work" of my MK3S+... Fortunately, I kept it just in case (and the case appeared some times since I bought the X1C a year ago).
I just need 15000 more Prusameters to get me a MK4S.
just a few more benchies!
I don’t want wow factor, I want a reliable machine that just prints, a machine that I can easily replace parts when needed. My MK3S+ is still going with zero issues since day one, only thing I’ve done to it is put in a revo nozzle and that made it even better for my use.
Agreed. No need to upgrade a MK3 because it already works good enough. I’ll be waiting for an MK5 or MK6. Maybe by then the Wow factor will be worth it to upgrade.
11:24 "It's the hot Goth Girlfriend" lol
I heard "hot golf girlfriend." You ruined it.
It sounds so much as something he has experience with... ;)
Yea, ...i thought "The fuc*?! Where is the bridge between goth girlfriends and a 3D printer"
@@RiskyBirdness could be same thing
@@Eitoonwe're all here watching a video about 3D printing. Let's be honest and admit we all understand the allure of the hot goth girlfriend.
I would love a video on print appearance (matte vs glossy, etc.) vs print speed/volumetric speed. Being able to have a mental model of what to look for beyond "matte = probably too fast".
+1
Watch @cnckitchen videos. He goes over it
+2
Why sit around waiting for someone to make a video so you can have a mental model? In the slicer add a cylinder primitive, use height range modifiers to change the outer wall print speed of different height ranges. This will give you an actual model using the specific filament you own.
@@radish6691 Yup. Now take that and repeat for many filament types across many different settings, and for different printer types to get a nice, normalized result. I personally lack the time and printers to do this and @MadeWithLayers asked for feedback in the video. Besides, I think his approach to this kind of project and videos are very high quality and would love to see the results.
Aaaand Prusa just released a new Video about the MK4S a few minutes after yours went online. Looks like they are adequately confident in their printer in the video, painting a good picture of a product that simply does what it promises. I wish more products would be like this
I don't know, it's having to wait over a year for a proper firmware release to have the machine function as intended considered "does what it promises"?
@@chipwallaceart Indeed, you have a point. The previous launch felt rushed and didn't fully live up to what it should have.
For me and my own opinion, as long as this won't happen again, I'm disgruntled yet not completely disappointed. The following can't be seen as a justification for a product lacking in promised value, but: oh boy had I printers that were lacking (a different, not as pricey brand). And they seem to keep on pushing out unfinished products...
But sure, Prusa has a steep price, and one would and should definitely expect a fully working product
Prusa is exactly the kinda of company I want to see succeed, which is why I aspire to a MK4S or an XL and not a Bambulab.
also not chinese junk... That alone makes it worth it...
@@FJB2020 I don’t have anything against Chinese made things per se , but most of the Chinese 3dp companies have values I don’t agree with
@@jakeharms1386 true
I have a BL A1 Mini and like it a lot. But with the recent lawsuit I want to get away from the closed system just in case the lawsuit hits the industry hard. So my next printer will be a Prusa MK4S. Plus, I get the option of assembling it myself. I’m not a tinkerer but assembly is appealing to me after having a prebuilt BL. Just as long as I don’t have to tinker once it’s complete😊
@@Shenandoahleather Building it is the best way to know how to repair it in case something does break.. That is the beauty of building it yourself..
Yeah, the MK4's killer feature is I can start a print and walk away. If I didnt do something wrong in slicing, itll print the thing. People value trust and reliability far too little.
My Bambu Lab printer does that too, and at a MUCH cheaper price than a Prusa Mk4, so it's not really a 'killer feature' is it?!
@@trance_trousers I value being able to fix my printer myself very highly, which is why I don't like Bambu.
I'm glad that Prusa went back to the front-mounted part cooling fan. They've been neglecting cooling ever since the Mk3S.
The MK4 not being flashy, but being ready out of the box and reliable is exactly what I love about it.
I sell products that included 3D printed parts, and having a printer like that allows me to scale up production easily.
I still have my speedy P1S for prototyping, but it is nowhere near as reliable as the MK4 in my experience.
To your point at 11:15, I don't think prusa needs a wow factor, it just is what it is and it's good at it. They have a customer base and they know their product. A big problem with other products is that people are too focused on surface level feelings rather then, "Does the product actually function and continue functioning" the upgrades they do are grannyed in as well and those are positive things.
I literally just finished building my MK4 yesterday. Just checked, and I barely made it into a free voucher for the upgrade kit. Orders on Aug 1 or later should get the voucher.
Congrats on your timing. 🙂
Andddd just 2 weeks after I upgraded my Mk3 to the Mk4....guess I'm breaking it all open again...
my experience with prusa support tells me that you might be able to get a discount or something on the upgrade kit if you ask nice. they are very good
But why do you need it really?
@@thomaskletzl6493I am... SPEED!
If you upgraded since Aug1 you should be getting a voucher for a free upgrade to S on the MK4.
I feel the pain. I bought the mk4 and it arrived yesterday 🥸 woke up to this like wtf
As soon as the upgrade kit is available, they can take my money. 75° overhangs will be great to have.
Absolutely, for $99 it's a no brainer to me. I built my Mk4 from a kit and find the area around the old cooling fan difficult to wire neatly and have the fan sitting in just the right place. So the fact they've moved the fan should fix the wiring in that area up sells it for me.
Yes, that's the proper way to do it. I think, it not being a wow! product, is also marked as such (having the S added to the MK4 logo). Many know about Prusa, most of their customers (I assume) have had that Ender-tinker period (I have). I had an Ender2 that I upgraded and learned from, it printed better than a Prusa mini. But, now having a MK4 (S, when it drops) I just upload, hit print and done. Even though that's a thing with a Bambu as well, I just appreciate a printer that can be tweaked/hacked into. I appreciate this being made in Europe, I appreciate what Prusa did during the Corona pandemic (yes, at least I noticed), I appreciate the support and the company as a whole. I'm totally fine paying for that a bit more. I'm also fine with other printers, it's not a 1 printer is perfect match, I really don't care about all those flame wars (I'm 46 and have seen those for over 20 years or so). :)
What I like about Prusa printers is they aren't "Hot and Exciting", they just work.
Yes. I want reliability as the biggest factor in my printers with dimensional accuracy. I've been very happy with my MK3(S) years.
@@jothain Same, my partner just brought me a MK4 and I am keeping both (mostly as the Mk3 has the MMU as well :D
Yes, all the things I love in life are old and boring, like Linux and Vim. Just workhorses that get ragged on all the time, but which make my whole life fun and easy.
In regards to what feature belongs to what version of the printer: Some features maybe weren't available for the MK4, but it was still sold on the promise that it would be added (especially input shaping). Since they do have integrity, they don't resell it as a "new" feature for the MK4s. Or because they might be called out of it, depending on how bright or dark your view of the world is. This doesn't apply to all the incremental changes, but considering how rushed the launch of the MK4 was, there were some IoU attached to that.
If I remember correctly you did mention this in your original review even, not being overly happy about being sold promises, and as a consequence being unable to test them.
These days, if I was in the market for a "just works" printer, I would probably get a Prusa. But I'm too much of a tinkerer and went the Voron 2.4r2 route (and am incredibly happy with it).
@@felixyasnopolski8571 Because I do want to support a company like Prusa, and because it does "just work". That part it always did, what is a newer development is that it's resonably close in speed to bamboo etc. now with these changes.
Don't you want to have both? A Prusa for when you need that trusted workhorse and that tinkering setup where you might mess up and need a replacement part printed for it. That's why I bought both a Prusa AND a Voron. And while I think I would like to eventually own a fleet of Vorons, they do take a TON of time to build/calibrate correctly and with the prebuild Prusa's you're up and running a lot faster.
@@Cergorach that was the point of the Voron for me. It is a trusted workhorse. It needed basically zero calibration. I can just send a job and it'll be fine. It's the successor to my old hypercube evolution, which I had to repair 4 times to get the Voron prints off it. I also have a cute little cheap cantilever 180x180 (prusa mini style, but sub-200€) for tiny or replacement parts, which will eventually be replaced by a V0 (or printer for ant variation). Like a Prusa, it can't really do ABS without help from some form of enclosure.
Edit: also for me, the building of it is a very large part of what I consider "the hobby", and I just love it. That's why I'm not in the market for a "just works" printer after all.
"It's the hot goth girlfriend" is exactly right. Most people who are really into 3D printers want that extra something the same way people who are into cars would prefer a modded Subaru WRX over a stock Chevy Spark. Sure, the Spark is just as if not more reliable in day to day use, but the WRX is interesting and engaging!
What are you going on about? Prusa nowhere near like a WRX, more like a Pontiac Aztec. Failed to appeal to the mass market and eventually got killed along with the whole company.
@@sketch088 pretty sure the Bamboo machine is the wrx in that metaphor, and the prusa is the Chevy spark.
I just don’t want to invest this time
Uh, no way is a Chevy more reliable than a Subaru, even a modded one 😂
@@sketch088 He was referring to the Peopoly Magneto X as "the hot goth girlfriend" which I then compared to a WRX, whereas the Prusa would be a boring reliable car like a Spark.
With the matte finish on these prints (and the Bambu's) I've been really interested if printers have been going "too fast" and sacrificing dimensions and strength at these higher speeds. I've heard of super fast prints on the X1C that crumble in actual use and I would be interested to see real data on this.
There are videos about that topic, the conclusion was: layer adhesion decreases with higher flowrates. However not in a linear way in relation to your max flowrate. If you want strong parts you have to stay within 50% of your max flowrate because you still get 90+% of the maximum strength . If you print near your max flowrate, your layer adhesion drops dramatically.
They're just outrunning the flow rate of the hotend+nozzle. Looking at the numbers Prusa published for their nozzles (including this new one), they are overly generous with their values. When you push it too far, you will get underextrusion, poor layer adhesion, and a matte finish, as well as an overall quality degredation. The gold standard test is to test using CNC Kitchen's flow test, and if I get an MK4, that'll be one of the first things I do. But this is not a big deal, IMHO, as it's very common for manufactures to hyper overly optimistic values (E3D does this too, for example). And it's an easy slicer profile change to dial back the volumetric flow a bit.
My Bambu makes terrible banding at any speed over 200mm/s and if I try to put it into "Ludicrous" mode I have a 50/50 chance of the print failing.
Absolutely, in most cases they are just outrunning the hot-end. Matte finish and poor layer adhesion are two of the most obvious signs. Under-extrusion is another symptom, but not as easy to detect. One of the simplest things you can do to prevent this, no matter what speed you want to run at, is figure out what the max volumetric flow rate is for the material + hotend, and put that in the slicer print profile. The slicer will then slow things down as needed to avoid exceeding that. CNCKitchen has a great video on how to do this. The manufacturers know this, but in the interest of one-upping each other, they push things too far. The hot-end vendors are also overly generous in the max flow rate numbers they list on the product page for their hotends (E3D in particular).
While not "exciting," it will make my MK4 even better value. I can make stuff, which is why I 3D print. I spent many years tweaking things, and now I want to make stuff that looks good and is dimensionally accurate 😁
I would not talk about a different included nozzle as a main thing, the interesting things would be: gpio pins, IS, NFC, screen upgrade. Bad changes: Injection moulded parts.
I got fed uo with building and modifying 3D printers 5 years ago and wanted something to just work. I've been a prusas LOVER since the mk3 was released and had 2. Now, for me, the mk4 are not even close to competing with the X1Cs that I replaced my mk3s with, in terms of printing experience. It is about time Prusa added an enclosure, light, camera, good web and app interface, etc. if they want to charge the same price. Also, don't get me started on the (not fit for purpose) MMU2 piece of junk that they ripped me off with. There is nothing in this printer that would take me back to prusa after a couple of months with 2 X1Cs. Too little, too late Joseph - bambu have caught you with your pants down
Interesting, I wonder how many people agree with your opinion.
Annoying English thing: "bow" as in the front of a ship is pronounced "bao" (like the "ow" in "cow" instead of in "low").
After having messedd around with a couple other printers, I will always appreciate the Prusa's ability to just fucking work when I need it to.😅
I think the words you are looking for are "the girl next door". The one you are overlooking for first 65 minutes of the movie, but eventually inevitably fall in love with. Because she has zero wow factor but she is sweet and nice and reliable and overall great for life. Just like the MK4. The MK4S is just that, only you realize she is also a supermodel and a marathon winner. :D
@12:03 - EXACTLY! I own two Creality machines. Ender3, and CR-6SE, as well as 2 (way defunct) home built units. I am WAY over the tinkering/tuning/messing around phase. Been in this since 2009. I'm over the tinkering. I just want a printer that works. I would LOVE a PRUSA XL (many designs I work on need that bed space, not the height, the area), but that $2K USD price tag is just out of my reach. Sure I know the realiability, but come on...$2K is just OUCH! Especially on a fixed income of a retiree...lol
I wholeheartedly agree with this. That IS the exact reason I even bought a Prusa MK4. I don't need any flashy features or experimental things that make the printer stand out. I have several Enders the I loved to mess around with for years, but now I just want a reliable printer that just works. I don't have the time I used to to just tinker with hardware and code for days just to have to do it again a few weeks later cause something new came out. I wanted the community, the support, the reliability, and the knowledge that what I get form prusa will continue to improve and get better over time.
I really get what you are saying about being exciting vs working properly. I used to tinker with my 3D printer, now I just want to print reliably every time. Same with phones - I used to install custom firmwares, now I just want a phone that works. I used to build my own gaming PC, now I am seriously considering buying a console...
For half the price I would buy the P1S. For me it has technical advantages and the enclosure is smaller and better looking in my home office. Although I can imagine conpanies, designers, studios or enthusiast with plenty of money to waste would go for the MK4s.
7:07 Most people above 20 have absolutely used T9 inputs on their flip-phones!
I still use T9 dialing on my smartphones. I find it faster for dialing than searching for names.
It's just iPhones that lack the feature, despite still having the letters on the dialing pad.
Not a chance, most people above 20 weren't even 10 years old when T9 was phased out
@@oyuyuy T9 was still common and in use around 2013!
@@ironnoriboi 'Common and in use' doesn't say much. Smartphones took the majority sales market share around 2009-2010 and most 10-year olds didn't have phones back then (and still don't).
@@oyuyuy I did, all my friends did, and nearly all of their friends did. Maybe we simply grew up in a different area :3
Maybe I've been out of the game a while and coming back in and using a Mk3.9, I am super happy with it. It's ABS parts at 0.1mm look amazing as in I want to re-print the whole thing out of ABS. Today I was asked to print some lids that another tech's printer would do 6 in 19 hours. With this 0.1mm height I can do the same job in 3.5 hours. It's reliable speed I'm impressed with and did I mention the black ABS parts look amazing!!!
I did buy an Ender 5 plus some years back, did put few bucks in direct drive, changed power supply and case fans with different sizes, designed a new head, got rid of the of the old marlin to use the 2.1 branch with MPC for the hotend, and I did harden it a lot. And it works, it prints very fine at around 100mm/sec (80 perimeters 120 infill) and it's reliable, it does print. The print counter available only since I use Marlin 2.1 shows me nearly 1000 prints, 60 days spent on printing. I can say it works and is reliable.
That is to say I understand what Prusa is doing, but their machines are too costly.
Yeah. You can make virtually any printer good. It's for many the following question. Do want printer or printing/designing as a hobby? I got MK3 back in the day and boy it's been breeze to select profile and print with good reliability. I got Ender 3 V2 as secondary printer cause it was said to be equivalent to Prusa by many and I can now vouch that it's utter bs to say that, mediocre at best out-of-box. It's quite ok now after adding second motor to Z-axis, changing hotend, installing magnetic sheet and BL touch. But I wanted good, working solution when I bought my MK3 (now S), which is still going strong. My very first printer was house burner Anet and got sick of apalling quality and watching printer constantly. Heck I've occasionally have to rush seek that if I have remembered to remove previous print using Octo with MK3S. Also occasionally it can take like two hours starting to print and to get that "oh yeah, I should check out if printing have started fine". To me it tells everything necessary about reliability.
So you modded it like crazy. Sure, I did the same with my Ender2, but that's a totally different experience than just buying a printer and presto, done. :)
@@jothain Heh, seems like you went down the same path as me. First was an Anet house burner. Laughed at that memory. Also got the MK3 when it came out. and then upgraded to an S, 6-7 years old now. It still works fine! Made a friend happy today with a print she wanted. I want to see how Bambo and Creality still support there own older models in 6 years time..
@@VincentGroenewold It's also a way to know how it works: building it. It's a shame I can't post a picture of it. I do design many things and now I love the fact I can just sent the print job using octoprint without worrying, I go see the printer some hours later and the object is on the bed.
There's an old saying "Linux is only free if your time has no value." I think that applies equally to cheap 3D printers. You can buy a cheap printer, mod it and get good results. But if your time is limited/valuable, you'd probably find that when you account for printer + parts + time you've probably spent more than buying a printer that doesn't need mods. Yes, that printer is more expensive but I'm paying for someone else to put their time into the R&D to make it work right, rather than doing it myself. I'm at a point in my life now where I'd rather spend some $$ to save a whole bunch of my time. The Mk4 was a great investment for me, maybe a little more than I'd have ideally liked to spend (I bought the kit to save cost/shipping because it was at the upper end end of my budget), but spending that money to get a well engineered printer that just works was so worth it to me. (Like other commenters, I too had an Anet houseburner, the Mk4 was what got me back into 3d printing after the frustration of owning the Anet drove me away).
As always, a very excellent video. The best thing I've seen so far. I just ordered my upgrade and this is exactly what I love about Prusa.
Glad they finally are getting an accelerometer. Now I just need to wait for the adaptor for Green Boy's pellet extruder to come out.
Cooling is one of the main areas the MK4 underperformed at. Glad to see it addressed.
OSS software, reliable prints and other things RE exciting to me actually, I want machine that works, lasts and can be repaired.
It is boring, but that is kind of the point, isn't it?
Very fair review. Thanks. If the XL was cheaper, i would consider going back to Prusa.
$2000 is a little steep, but reasonable.. if it was enclosed and assembled, but that's actually $3000. Then when you look to add more heads @+$470 for just one extra head and $1,420 for 5, that's a deal breaker. BUT if you NEED to print more than 2 multi-color or multi-material fast it seems to be the go to machine
I've always had a budget minded approach to 3D printing, I stayed away from Makerbot back in the day and I'm staying away from Prusa
Fair review? He is comparing 2 Prusa sh1ts. Compare it to Bambulabs and Prusa will loose in every aspect.
Prusa is 10 years late and overpriced.
@@majdracekcan you get bamboo labs to do the multi-head tool swapping like the XL does? I'd be willing to abandon prusa if there was a viable alternative to multi-material that didn't waste a shit ton of filament like bamboo currently does
I'll buy another prusa because they have great customer service and reliability is top notch.
Dude! ........The fact that we can now design functional parts with lower overhangs without needing supports is a GAME changer for a single extruder machine. The only people who care about the bulletpoints of the lesser machines you mention are definitely not makers. I think you re missing the entire point of this machine , since you would rather favor of new "exciting " features, which prove to be ultimately useless and help clutter the market with inferior products . You used to make videos for makers but Im thinking you re going full on mainstream!
10:11 I get what you are saying and kind of agree, but I feel Prusa is like Tesla. They get the OTA updates and make the current owners happy at the cost of mellowing down the future product announcements. As mk4 owner I am happy with hat route.
Prusa does not try to compete directly with anything Bambulab has to offer at the moment. Both companies have different goals for their products and so their products will cater to different audiences. Prusa is NOT overpriced or outdated. What they’re selling are machines that are proven to be extremely reliable, besides being an ethically sound company. Neither of those things can necessarily be confirmed for Bambulab. The first one in time perhaps, but Prusa is massively ahead of them because Prusa has been around for so much longer.
Prusa machines are not as flashy or extremely fast as Bambulab machines, Voron’s, the Crealities, Sovols, Anycubics of this world and so on. But that is exactly the point. Different tools for different jobs and different people
I have 2 X1 Carbons that I bought during the Kickstarter. They each have ~2000 hours on them. I've done minimal maintenance and have had no major issues, with one printer still using the same hot-end. Bambu can keep up with Prusa in longevity - and we now have the hours to prove it.
@@wolffpv535 no, that’s not what I said at all. Prusa has many, many more machines out there that have been proven to be very reliable for many years. Bambulab is nowhere near that level of reputation
@@wolffpv535 nope... the ammount of returns alone should prove it to you... oh wait... you wont get those numbers from a PRC company
X1 Bambulab printers are the replacement printers for any Prusa Printer. Look at every Printer Farm most Prusa Printers are replaced by X1 because speed is the key for faster production.
@@oriwan3786 Until they break down and you can't fix one without official parts. And of course they break down, just as a Prusa or any other printer. Some will have a lot of hours, before they do, some won't.
Can't disagree more about holding features and releasing annually - the only reason I pay the Prusa premium is because I know they will continue to make it better - making someone wait for - take for instance; input shaping longer then needed so you can bundle it... just does not make any sense.
Working as an engineer, having something that "just works" and is reliable really is the biggest selling point of prusas for me. We got a Carbon X1E when they came out, and the hotends and AMS unit have been consistently giving us priblems, along with inconsistent bed adhesion from their own PLA, absolutely wild.
Am I the only one excited about the PCCF parts?! Finally some original high temperature parts to print asa and abs in an enclosure with! PETG warping was real
No you are not! I am been printing PC Blend Carbon Fill with my MK3S, I wonder what is the maximum process temperature with the MK4S? How much more than 300C can we do?
MK4s is the wife one marries for her timeless beauty, intelligence and most importantly a sensible attitude towards a joint economy.
I am really tempted to get one of these, but then I look at those 8mm rods supported by printed plastic parts, and think "no, not for $1100". But kudos to Prusa for what looks like a good upgrade.
I don’t really use my mk3s anymore but I will say the build quality was awesome and I didn’t have to do a single repair other than nozzle and whatnot in 300 days worth of print time. It may not look as polished but their printers are sturdy as hell.
Oh, my MK4 has been incredible. I've done no tweaking, and out of the box it prints to sub tenth of a mm accuracy. If I model something 30mm, my calipers measure 30.0mm. It just does exactly what it's supposed to do every time. I've traveled with it, too, on several cross-country road trips, and printed in hotel rooms all along route 40, both ways, a few times. Wake up each morning to a finished part, and hit the road again. With Polymaker PolyTerra, I almost can't see the layer lines at all. I've made so many things that look like they came out of a factory. I keep the filament dry in a Sunlu S2 while printing, usually down at 16%, and get no strings at all either. I've been nothing but impressed for a year now.
@@gfixler You've convinced me. I have owned two MK3S in the past, and had a bad experience with one of them (during a period when Prusa was skimping on perimeters and infill settings on their parts). But seems like love for the MK4 is pretty universal, so I'll be ordering one today.
@@mghumphrey woo-hoo! All things you know, I'm sure, but this was my first printer, and I had to know very little to get perfect parts. The only things I did were 1) print a temp tower and make sure my temp settings for the PolyTerra were right (actually lower than claimed; I use 185C, because it looked best, 200 still on the first first layer for good adhesion), and 2) I use bone dry filament. I dry it in the Sunlu S2 down to below 20% with a few desiccant packs inside the middle, so they dry out along with it, and then vacuum them with the packs still inside in the Sunlu bags between uses. Those two to things-proper temps and dry filament-and I get factory beautiful things every time. I've even had several occasions where I forget I'm printing something, get a hot and cold flash, like "oh no! I haven't checked on it since yesterday!" and I go in and find it done, or still printing, no issues. Obviously a badly designed part will be an issue still, but that's true for any printer. The only other thing I've done was get a new heaterblock and nozzle recently, because it was starting to print badly, and when I saw the nozzle, I was surprised it was printing as well as it had been up till then. It was no longer a 0.04. It was probably twice that, and worn so flat. I'm going to replace the nozzle a couple of times a year now to keep it in top shape.
@@gfixler Thanks. I am probably in the "advanced" category when it comes to 3D printing, and have built many printers and know how to create and tune slicer profiles. But there comes a point when you want at least one machine you won't be tempted to tinker with. What attracted me to the MK4S is the excellent surface quality on the prints and the performance on overhangs. The latter means I can crank out quick designs for my own usage without worrying as much about design for printability. I ordered one of the ObXidian high flow nozzles. I use that on another printer, and I think it will let me not worry about which material I am printing, but still achieve decent flow rates. Yeah, it's still slow compared to my CoreXY printers, and is not enclosed, so if I need a draft part super quickly, or a part in ABS or ASA, I can just use one of those. But having options is great.
Well the continious improvements. That's why I bought an MK4. And the brand of Prusa is in my thinking. It just works, no whizzels, no bells. It's just always in front of what you can get. So I don't care about the other newest models. I just want to print my projects and I rely on Prusa doing the right things. - This works
I think injection molding and other custom tooling-based hardware manufacturing is one of the best things I'm seeing Prusa doing. They can get better, more consistent quality for far cheaper.
Prusa improving their DfM/DfA will be very good for them in the coming years as they deal with more cutthroat competition.
I guess the compromise is that they injection-mould parts for the economies-of-scale. But ensure all those parts can also be 3D-printed on those machines.
@@andybrice2711 Prusa claims to move around 10k units a month. This is 100% within economies of scale. This is coming from someone with thousands of 3D printed production parts in the wild.
@@ZURAD But let’s say they’re planning to stick with this design for another 2 years. That’s 240K parts. So surely at that scale it works out cheaper to injection mould them?
@@andybrice2711 Yes of course it does. FOSH company owners are not known for being the most shrewd and numbers driven of people though. I don't get it, but it's his competition to lose
@@ZURAD So what I’m saying is: I agree it’s sensible to injection mould those parts for the machines they’re selling.
But they should also ensure those parts are designed in such a way that they can be easily 3D printed. So that people can easily repair or modify their machines.
"S" ist for super incredibly expensive.
I have to disagree on the non exiting stuff. Features like upgradability, build kits, no being forced to use an app, wifi, etc. is exactly why I chose this printer. I hate companies pushing things on me that I don't want and I love how Prusa handles things. IMO, the world would be a much nicer place, if all companies acted like this.
That blue filament is gorgeous
Another example of the MK4 being prioritized over the Prusa XL
Im sure they're working on the two in parallel, it makes sense to launch the MK4 upgrades first since the machine is simpler and more people have it.
@@Kosaro1234 I really don't think they are working in parallel. You only have so many people so why have two people both working independently on the same extruder. I am sure the improvements of this extruder will come to the Prusa XL it will just take longer and may need slight tweaks.
Also the addition of with injection molded parts is odd and just does not feel right. Injection molded parts are not to replace 3d printed ones it's to be able to make large and more complex things at much lower cost. Maybe they are just using this to test the waters, I hope.
Again showing that Prusa does not, will not and have not prioritised the Prusa XL.
Also I would like to point out that I own and want to love my Prusa XL but the reality that it is underperforming hard makes me feel bad. I want to see Prusa take the criticism on the chin and get up stronger.
@@Ender_Wiggin I have one too, and tbf we did get the 6.0 firmware update a few months back which dramatically improved the printer, and we also got an enclosure about a month back. And now the app!
I'm looking forward to the software update where they enable the XL's accelerometer for input shaping (probably coming soon since its now available on the mk4)
I imagine it'll be trickier to improve the XL's fans due to space constraints, but I'm curious what they'll come up with.
7:00 I love the fact that they're bringing the old keypads back, it's genius. Can't wait for people to complain about it on forums and such though, if they've never seen this before
I had an Anycubic I3 Mega and the community shure knows that it’s a pretty decent printer. But I allways run in smaller issues and allways was a bit tinkering with it. At last I had enough and bought me a M4 - I never run in any issues since whatsoever. I’m just happy with the print, period.
Thank you for calling it correctly as "Mark 4" vs everyone else saying M K 4 (Em Kay Four).
Slow and steady wins the race.
I'm not looking for a WOW printer i'm looking for a printer that print right all the time. This is what prusa have give me for years now.
the new print profiles look to be at the edge of usability. "high flow" v6 nozzle wont fix the issue of short meltzone.
They have "CHT Geometry" in there now. I don't know how good their implementation is, some have tried and failed, but if it's good, it does a fair bit to improve heating performance inside a short meltzone.
Not having the meltzone volume too high is also sort of important because the movement speed of these machines isn't all that, so styrenes can get crispy yellow gross and brittle if you're doing highly detailed prints with a smaller nozzle in these materials. Also things like TPU are usually run at a very modest speed and you still don't want to keep them cooking in the meltzone for too long.
i mean thats literally what a high flow nozzle does. look at any cht style nozzle and its directly compared against long melt zone options
I honestly was hoping for a volcano length hotend instead of a cht nozzle, but i guess they would loose build height in that process as well as increase MMU waste, although im not sure how the cht affects their tip stamping.
I have no doubt it is a great printer...but here, downunder, it is vastly overpriced. In AUD an assembled printer is $1689.00 plus shipping and 10% import duty, so that is right on $2000.00AUD. A Bambu P1P is $899.00AUD and it has local support and parts availability. So sadly is is a no brainer....I would love a Mk4, but Prusa would have to have retail outlets here in Australia, parts support and much, much more competitive pricing...
My heart says Prusa, but my wallet says Bambu...
Yeah would have loved to know the time on a Bambu machine though.
I don't think Bambu was mentioned at all in this video
@@eggbag4182it's a video about a completely different printer
Well, the MK4S still does not outperform the A1, which is disappointing given that the price tag is three times higher.
Better overhangs, faster on designs with overhangs, plus less plastic wasted as lestt support needed. Mk4s is better.
In what way does it not outperform the Bambu Lab A1?
MK4: 4 Million hours of test data in printing farm
A1: bad bed cable
You *do* get what you pay for 😅
The MK4 will have a long life and can be easily repaired. The A1... not the same thing. Having a Prusa (MK3S+) and a BambuLab (X1C), Prusa are far better choice if you want something that really works all the time and for a long time.
@@LeftJoystick Speed, design, ease of use, ease of maintenance, and last but not least : value for money ! Simple as that.
Always wanted a prusa but damn for the price nowadays... I'd rather get a bambu or the new sovol...
To be fair they treat their employees significantly better. But I don’t make enough to pay more for that 😂
Are we gonna talk about the Prusa XLS we can see at 0:10?
Oh, damn, you got me excited there for a second. But I think that's a 5, not an S -- as in, 5-tool XL.
@@MikeKobb shit, you are absolutely right. :(
I’m super excited about the MK4S! It’s awesome to see Prusa making such great machines. I’m really glad to be sticking with them!
I purchased my MK4 kit on July 16th, and received it July 24th. I was finally able to get it assembled, and printing on July 29th. I've been pretty happy with the printer, and it's been a huge upgrade over my ender 3 s1 pro.
However it sucks buying my printer, and having it outdated so soon. I contacted PRUSA customer service about an hour ago, and asked if I could get the upgrade since it's been less than 30 days since my purchase. I was told no by the representative. I asked politely again since I'm still in the return period if I could get the upgrade...and now I'm waiting on an email response.... I hope PRUSA does the right thing for a new customer....
I bought my MK4 around the same time. Two things:
1) The MK4 is still a great printer. The hardware differences between MK4 + MK4S are small. And things like the CHT Nozzle (yes I know, you have to buy one..) are usable with the MK4 without hazzle.
2) You've received a 100$ voucher when you bought the MK4 - That's less than the upgrade kit costs, but still a pretty good deal.
I've already spent my voucher on some spare parts - And I'm undecided if I will go with the full upgrade kit. There are only some small things like the fan or GPIO board that I might be interested in (and for the GPIO board it seems like I need the new WIFI module). So maybe I wait until the pieces are available individually and do some selected upgrades.
@@Flo-8bit it definitely is a great printer... It just stings with this being announced so soon after I purchased. With zero signs there was an upgrade on the horizon.
You should've bought an A1 or P1S
@@oyuyuy not interested in a closed source Chinese printer that forces you to be online at all times.
@@wiesman2613 Cool, then an A1 or P1S would be perfect for you!
Nice that they decided to speed it up a little, I always thought the original version moved kind of slow for the market it's in..
I'm glad that they are finally releasing an accelerometer (and presumably support in the firmware) to tuning input shaping. I've been wanting to put a copper heatblock so I can use my WC nozzles. Copper heatblock is already available 3rd party, but I was worried that the extra mass of copper vs aluminum would throw off the default IS values.
5:25 Please post a follow-up with further exploration on speed vs. strength.
I would point you towards the UA-cam channel "diy perspective". He did an investigation of layer adhesion vs volumetric flow. In summary there is only minimal decrease up to 50% of your hotends max flow rate, after that the layer adhesion goes down, irrelevant of gloss vs matte finish. For example 3djake pla turns matte extremely early in my experience, already at 10mm3/s with a rapido uhf at 230c, a hotend that can do 40+ mm3/s at that temperature. Others like polymaker polylite have a glossy finish much further
how is the Nozzle Swapping?
With the regular MK4 i've gotten spoiled by the Quick swap bit that locks the heater-block in place and lets you just unscrew the nozzle. This doesn't look compatible with that.
Would love to hear about this
My bad for not explaining that - the new stock high-flow Nextruder nozzle is, in fact, a full long nozzlebreak in the same formfactor as all the other Nextruder nozzles for the MK4(S) and XL. The adapter solution simply is what you had to do up to this point to get a CHT nozzle into a MK4/XL.
Actually inside the EU the price is 109€ plus shipping.
The most expensive part actually is the nozzle about 40€.
On 0.4 with the typical 0.2mm Layerhight you do not even need a high-flow nozzle on the mk4(s). Only with higher layerhight it's used. Or with bigger nozzles.
The new parts of the electronic are nice, but not worth upgrading, exept you need the new GPIO for tinkering.
For me upgrading the fan is the most interesting part. However, the fan is not available in the shop at the moment.
However, as I had 4 mk3s+ but only one upgraded to the mk4, I now ordered the mk3->mk3.9 upgrade. I will use this to upgrade my mk4 to mk4s and one of my other mk3s+ to mk3.5. This cost just 171€ more than one mk3->mk3.5 upgrade plus one mk4->mk4s upgrade together, but for this I get a complete Nextruder. Wich for 171€ is quite a deal (even if I have to crimp adaptercables for the mk3.5 upgrade myself). So I might try a Nextruder on my vCore3.1...
Buying the mk3.9(s) upgrade was the cheapest way to get a Nextruder for now. Some people work on using the Loadcell with Klipper. Results are promesing.
Of course, 549€ is not cheap. But you can reuse the board+display comming with the upgradekit for an mk3s+ to mk3.5 reducing the price for the Nextruder to effectly 280€. If you also get a mk4 to mk4s out of it, this reduces the price further, effectivly to 171€ for the Nextruder (but you just have the mk3.5, not the mk3.5s upgrade). I might upgrade the last two mk3s later - in case I get the loadcell to work and want to build a toolchanger...
btw the accelerometer is only needed if you use a very modified extruder. For the stock extruder the standard values are the best and you wont become better results with retune
The non-exciting features are the ones that excite me! MK4S arriving next week :)
Thanks for this review, as a MK4 owner, I was struggling to determine if the upgrade was worth the time, effort and cost. The upgrade seems to try to bring the MK4 up to some of what its competition has been doing, such as the A1 series from Bambu. Feature wise, they don't surpass the Bambu A1 (or the P1/X1 series) but bring them closer to parity.
what bother me is that it costs more than a P1S with AMS which can print faster and also nice and wihtout having to tinker too much. plus hotend are cheap
I feel like prusa has difficulty communicating the producs capability. This, or the fact that they don't take part in the specfucking.
7:24 I think that's actually pretty sweet input method solution for that printer. Other than practicality (for qwerty to be convinient you need to grab the screen since we have our thumbs trained for that, and for printer its not really possible). Also fuels into nostalgia, making it even sweeter.
I build my mk4 like week ago and now after putting 50 print hours into it and poof, there is upgrade pending already lmao. I build it and immidietely ordered extra nozzles, they didnt even arrive yet.
This is very tempting.... I am really holding out for a Prusa core-xy though.
I feel like the fact that it's "just" a printer that does its things well and is good at the basic printer things rather than at one single stand-out feature, is the stand-out feature of the prusa machines.
Unfortunately it's harder to sell the promise of a reliable printer than "just works" rather than "ooo look it's quick", but it's super important _to me_ at least :)
Now I want to find a good printer with the same prusa mentality, but with an enclosure. Prusa really lacks options in this space, the mk4 enclosure feels like a bandaid on the "problem". Would have been cool to see tgem switch to ASA for the MK4S... Sure I can re-print everything myself, disassemble and reassemble my printer but having it as an official thing would have been cool
Rant over :D
Wow, these comments are so negative... just let prusa make their printers lmao
I’ve noticed that while Prusa’s recent models haven’t significantly evolved, competitors like Bambu Labs are offering more advanced 3D printers at similar price points. To stay competitive, Prusa needs to either enhance innovation or adjust pricing. Consumers are looking for better value, and without more significant improvements, it will be hard to justify current prices.
*at far better price points
I'm pretty sure prusa will never compete with bambu on price. The manufacturing processes and environment is far too different. But they do have the advantage of being able update their designs much faster (came out with the 4S in a year) because of AM. I think if Prusa comes out with a more affordable tool changer or 4 axis printing, both of which they have a significant head start on, they'll keep themselves relevant. Otherwise, their improvements are too incremental.
Prusa simply cannot compete with Bambulab because they are making their printers in Europe.
@bastienx8 Nonsense.
Prusa just needs to use modern manufacturing techniques and automation. Their biggest competitor uses that.
It's not like they don't have cheap labour either with Czech wages.
@@BeefIngot With 3D printing they get low cost plastic parts, especially because they build their filaments themselves, and most of the parts are not 3D printed anyway (aluminium frame, PCBs, motors, screen, power supply...).
But the labour is way more expensive in Europe because the employer must pay insurance, taxes, pensions for every employee, and every part they order in Europe is more expensive for the same reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the employees cost 3x more to the company than in China for example.
Bamboo lab is really pushing hard Prusa in competition keep working hard Prusa
Great video Tom! ... But ahh I recently just bought a Prusa MK4 a big long overdue upgrade from my old MakerBot Rep2. Ahh now MK4S is released. haha!
11:10 While I agree that they could play it out better from buissness perspective, but I like it more that gradual upgrade way. And that it's reaible and just works, and I dont need to put in mental load to get STL transfered into plastic, I can just yeet it at slicer, send it over via LOCAL network, and be confident that it can handle. And all of that with open source stuff, hackable/moddable stuff. And at that, it's decently speedy with great print quality. THIS is a huge wow factor for me, personally. Ye, it dosen't look flashy on specsheet, okay, fair, but who needs flash specsheet when machine behaves in flashy manner :)
from a marketing point of view you are right about releases and features but as a informed customer with technical knowledge i hate such marketing crap and aprechiate a early software update with new features to my already owned device. to me good updates soon are a big plus for a company and product
I'm just pleased it wasn't called the "MK4-K"! Joking aside, the continuing innovation of Prusa is heartening. They make really slick products that are constantly improving, and their documentation, customer support, and community engagement are second-to-none. Prusa has been a great supporter for Marlin Firmware and open source generally. Once I showed Josef Prusa a photo of my old self-built Prusa i3 Mendel, still in my stable of work printers, and he took a bit of pity on me, asking me if I wanted one of his shiny new printers. I grew up poor, so I was typically too humble to accept such a generous gift with grace. I made an awkward joke about getting it in a color besides orange and … I guess the offer was rescinded. Jo Prusa may not get my New England brand of sarcasm, but he remembers how we all got here and he understands how to make really amazing products with a strong community ethos.
Printers are basically turning into car iterations. Here's the Honda Civic for the year.
So they won't make any major changes for the next 5 years, and everyone will try to steal it for parts?
Are you really arguing that they should have advertised Input Shaper as a feature of the MK4S? The MK4 was sold with that advertisement already and it was already a crux that it was not there day 1! To this day, the MK4 still has a lot of issues. And yes, the screen was updated in the lifetime because the first gen of it could kill usb drives at random for example.
Ordered up the "S" upgrade... a great printer a little bit better
So it's an MK4 with slight upgrades. Gotcha.
I could justify the purchase if it was half that price for the quality level and that build plate size, but that pill is getting harder to swallow with the competition's huge amount of current offerings.
I think the screen improvement you noticed is just the current-generation MK4 screen. I ordered the upgrade for my MK4 on launch day, and as part of the order process, they show you two different screen board versions and ask which you have so they can send the appropriate parts to fit that screen. I've never had any complaint about my MK4 screen, and I have the old one.
One thing I don't think you mentioned -- the MK4S can apparently reliably print up to 75° overhangs thanks to the improved cooling, which will reduce the need for support and further speed up printing while reducing waste.
As for the MK4 not being "exciting", I couldn't care less. I want a printer that works and delivers consistent results. The MK4 is clearly exactly that (and so is my 5-tool XL).
7:10 I'm 25 this year and I grew up with those phones that had those keypads man, cmon :p
what the heck was that quadruple benchy
Tests part cooling for all four bows for those that really love Benchy?
Biblically-accurate benchy
Testing for all four orientations:
- Bow facing the print cooling fan, which usually gives the best overhangs
- Bow 90° to the fan
- Bow facing away from the fan as a worst-case scenario
@@MadeWithLayers Who would design such an abomination...... And where can i find it😁
I think it's a riddle: you're on a benchy, and you look out any window. You're looking south. Where is your benchy?
so, basically the decreased time just comes from increased flowrate and line thickness? meh, nothing a regular .6 nozzle can't already do today.
7:05 I'm being attacked and now I feel old.