Great video! I used a fire hardened hickory bow following this method and took a nice doe with stone points and all this past season, keep up the good work guys!
Make a Creek Indian bow in my reading and artifact finding they used a bow about 5 foot long or shorter flat back and rounded belly D shape when strung up
I give the credit to Keith Shannon. He was the man that took the time to experiment with white woodS and fire. He asked me to come on the ride and I am glad he did.
Outstanding! This has made me love bowmaking even more. I am trying your technique on an elm bow and wow, no checks! Wont be 12 hours but more like a week. Thanks for the great videos!
This is interesting I saw Clay Hayes make one in less than 24 hour, I think his was made out of Elm. So I think you guys have a winner here. Thanks for sharing what can be done with white wood bows!
I really like the small pencil block used during tillering for the short-length curvature guide. I like that there is something physical, a reference material (flat block) to exemplify the changes in curvature - and that it doubles as a marking tool to identify flat/curved/shallow spots with the pencil.
Thad you never cease to amaze me. What you both have discovered or rediscovered,not only helps us understand more about what the natives probably did,but your contribution to the bow world is outstanding. I live in Wales in the U.K. so woods here are different, but I do believe this can be applied to many woods here. Thankyou gentleman. You have most certainly sold me your DVD. Kind regards, Antonio
Gentlemen. What a pleasure to see your excitement with this issue. Congratulations and a big thank you for sharing this. I love the reflex on your bow.
I really enjoyed this tutorial on building a bow from green stave to fire hardened, reflexed shooting hunting bow in less than 12 hrs...Thad, you and Keith are on to something here...I'll have to give it a try...have some hop hornbeam that would benefit from this treatment process....thanks for posting guys!
Heat treating and fire hardened are similar but not the same. Keith's method is a much long and hotter heat penetration. Mark st Louis did outstanding work which is well documented in the bowyers bibles.
Have used and instructed many to use hickory, ash, eastern hop horn bean etc. Hickory and hornbeam(ironwood misnomer) hold moisture more than most woods. I weigh my bow staves and when weight stops dropping it is 10-12 moisture content. When fast drying a bow, moisture meter only shows surface moisture. Hickory and Hophornbean are top grade woods when dried and tiller properly are great. My fastest bow was a hop horn bow made for my hunting buddy .Faster than any of my Osage bows. That’s my two cent Bob Brooks
I want to thank y’all for sharing this information with us. I made my first white wood bow back in 2003 and have always had issues with string follow. I took one of my older pecan bows and fire hardened it the other day and couldn’t believe how much it increases the weight of bow. Going to sinew back it next week and hopefully put it back in active duty as soon as it’s dry enough to retailer and shoot! Thanks and God bless both of you!
Thanks Thad and Keith, these bows are amazing and I can see why the Indian Bows were described as the finest in the world. Thank you both for your hard work and discovery.
I bought your dvd and thank you for sharing the knowledge. I have a hickory stave harvested years ago and two black locust staves. I want to make south eastern style d bows with them. Can’t wait to use the fire technique with them. Also have a bunch of hickory staves i harvested last year in Pennsylvania. Some are so straight. Can’t wait to make and use you techniques
Thanks for another great video guys. Invaluable information that you are rediscovering and passing on. Since i bought your video I've made several successful fire hardened hickory bows. I always have 3 or 4 "in progress". I just finished a 42" 45# @ 21" gull wing black locust fire hardened plains style bow. It is backed in sinew as well. I realize that BL is generally weak in compression and strong in tension, so adding sinew would typically make more compression problems. I was banking on the fire hardening to strengthen the belly so much that it would handle the added tension and really increase the performance of the bow. Long story short, it worked. The little bow is super fast and accurate. So far no belly problems... Thank you!
What exactly are you wanting to make? If you haven't bought the video on fire hardening id suggest getting that first. That way you can learn how to properly fire harden the staves.
I just dun a 77 long self bow with this method an ill never do a self bow again without fire hardening the belly I did the back a little to an this one is d shape classic English longbow style not a problem small Crack at the tips but it was 80 overall an I got away with 77 overall blown away guys I figured were it was d shaped it would blowup but in a week I've got a amazing 42lb longbow with no string follow thank you very much guys you really have changed bow building forever
GREETINGS GENTLEMAN.IM LATE WITH A COMMENT.WONDERFULL EXPERIMENT.I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED HICKORY.STRONG, FLEXIBLE AND EASY TO WORK WITH.FROM MR.TOUFIE SOUTH AFRICA CAPE TOWN.THANK YOU GENTLEMAN
I bought the video from your website and absolutely love the hickory bows I have build from it one is 70 lb draw and one is 60 lb awesome bows but I want to see you guys do a video on one out of sweet gum I had 10 trees blow down in a tornado and I cut up 25 staves that have been drying for 8 months.... I built one and it snapped when I was stringing it it was 55lb on the tiller tree I think the problem was the fact that I went straight to tilllering right after hardening instead of letting it take on some moisture first I think that might be a critical step with sweetgum and I have 25 more attempts just gotta find the time to do it
Just finished watching your new video Keith You guys are really something Well done I am really motivated now to get on with the staff you sent me Thanks again Herb
Keith Did notice a a small problem when I started to further shape and tiller the fire harden pre shaped staff How hard it had became, my planes and cutting tools was a bit difficult cutting the bow wood So I went to grinding and rasping it to final shape ,that worked much much betterI guess it would be better to pre shape fairly well before hardening then tiller after firing What do you think? Thanks again Herb@@BeckumOutdoors
I just tried fire hardening a white wood bow after buying your video I am at a loss for words. I thought nothing could beat Osage but I live in Georgia and hickory is very easy to find thank you and keep going.
@@BeckumOutdoors ok results were better than expected it was a little over 45 pounds maybe before the fire hardening process. After it was a little over 50 and the dark amber golden honey color is nice when you hit it with tru oil.
Unbelievable the things I’ve been learning from yawls videos I’ve been making hickory bow for years , And going to Fire Harden my first bow in a week or two. Might have to bring a few of my old Hickory bow out of retirement and Fire Harding them also, thank y’all so much and hope y’all keep making videos
Man, this is awesome. Think this would be a fun thing to do with a sapling on the river bank to pass time while watching your fishing poles. Brother y’all are on to something, and proving a lot of theories wrong. Outstanding.
Out here in Idaho we have Service Berry which I make axe handles with. Also 2 bows, which were aged 1 - 2 yrs. Since it is similar to Hickory I am setting up to fire cure a green stave. Check in later.... Thanks gents for the pioneering work!!
You know that our ancestors did it the easiest way that they could. They didn't have time to waste needlessly. I believe that they had a very good understanding of what they could do with each kind of wood that was available to them. So much info has been lost and is being lost. To me it just stands to reason that they would have made the best use out of fire in so many things and ways. They were very efficient with their resources and wasted very little in order to not just survive but to thrive as they did.
Looking to make my first real bow up here in Wisconsin. Considering how plentiful hickory can be up here, I think I'll give this method a shot. I was wondering if this would work for Black Walnut? The loggers always leave these around, so I wanted to see if they were decent for making a bow. The wood is gorgeous.
Bought the video last year and loved it! Wanted to try different trees and privet bush was one that took really well. I also had a scrap piece of hickory I sinewed 6 months before the video 46" long 1 3/8" wide D bow. Was 60 at 26" then dropped down to 45.. didn't care if it broke or not so fire hardened it for hour & 1/2 just to see if sinew would pull and a 10 lb weight in handle. Turned out 55 then down to 49-50 and got a young doe with it!! That bow had a piece pop out of the back of it before sinewing and just wanted to see if one layer of sinew could save it then saw this video and made it even better!! Hickory can really take a lot of abuse. Thank you Keith and Thad for sharing! I don't have any osage but I do have 40 acres of sweetgum and hickory😁
Learned something the hard way the other day. Had a hickory someone kinda messed up awhile back and tried to save it for them. Limbs were 3/8" thick 1 3/8" wide dude strung it with a hinge so I reflexed it and fired it without form because of huge knot. As it cooked the reflex came out and tried putting weight on handle but no good. Still made a bow but dude had it too thin from start
Now this makes more sense how the Indians do. I am going to try this. I wish I could learn from them . Hint start classes. Something to share your knowledge. Thanks for sharing . I got the video and its worth getting people.
There is a section in the book Survival Skills of Native California by Paul D. Campbell that goes over how a native in Southern California made a bow out of black willow in one day. He did not heat treat the belly but he did heat the tips and bent them inward to deflex the tips, then he strung the bow to hold the bend into position. The bow was then declared ready to shoot and had enough power to kill a rabbit and it could shoot an arrow about 100 yards. This bow was only about 50 inches long for small game, but some natives in Southern California also made bows as tall as the archer or longer in order to be powerful enough to take large game.
Yes that sounds right. The big difference between California and the Southeast is moisture. California is a very dry environment most of the year. Here in the Southeast is very humid and wet. You have to consider the environment. Sinew back bows were never used here because that would be a disaster. Too much humidity and rain. But in California they were used historically. People developed bows and arrows to work in their region and conditions.
Awesome job- love your dvd I bought one from Billy. My friends and I will be using your technique very soon too build ours....experimenting with many Michigan woods- thanks for sharing.
I made a Powhatan bow several years ago. The bow I copied is in the Ashmolean Museum in England. Several Powhatan Algonquian bows were taken from American to England back when the Powhatan was still a powerful empire. They are still there.
I was wondering if you’d mind explaining how to make a form. Hickory is everywhere where I live. I haven’t made a bow yet I’d like to try something like you did in this video after I make a couple bows and figure things out.
A couple of 2 x 6 treated boards long enough, nail them together. Use a straight edge that bends and lay out your desired setback. Keep nails below your layout line and cut the form outline. A band saw is best or you can use a jigsaw. sand the curve to the line. Smooth things up. No rules here.
There is no hickery here, but the closest thing is a type of hazel(they are in the same genus/subfamily). I have made primitive bows in a day, and put them in the car in the sun to dry out, never seen a cracking. Cracking happens if you leave the wood with the bark to dry slowly.
The information in this video was invaluable and fantastic.thakyou.the only thing that I can say that is not complimentary is that the gentleman who did the intro could have done it in one fifth the time.he repeated the same info seven or eight times I started counting at 3.thanks again
Very impressive! Always wanted to keep with Osage cause what everyone is told but I have so much hickory to use! Definitely going to try this out. Thanks so much for the content! Would definitely love to see more of what you two can do.
Hi Thad an Keith. This is SO exciting! Been building bows for 3 years now. In South Africa we do not have the same woods available. What I have used before is white Mulberry. It is also a white hardwood. A bit harder than Elm but softer than Hickory. It also develops quite allot of sting follow. Have you tried Mulberry at all? I can get my hand on some honey Locust as well. Have you tried it with this process? Going to test it anyway and let you know.
This stuff makes me incredibly excited, going into a craze now with testing various local woods. Could this be why it is often assumed that the natives used really weak bows? That they simply did not understand that they were firehardened? Interestingly an elm bow in Norway (found in a glacier) has been labled too weak for hunting and a possible kids bow. Maybe it was firehardened to raise the poundage?
Please keep me informed about your experiments. Some native bows were low poundage but the bows of the Southeast U.S were very strong. The Spanish who were here recorded that they could not draw the bows of the Florida natives. We are still learning having to look thru the fog of history. Thanks for your comment.
I realize this was posted a year ago. But it's love to know what you found from other local woods. If your on any of the bow making FB groups, please consider posting this video and any results you find from trying other woods. Keep learning!👍
@@livingprimitively That is interesting results. From your wood in assuming your in the UK, as I am. Thanks for sharing your results. Even more valuable using woods that I have available. Yes, in sure it would warp crazily without a form. Pretty essential for this method on most woods I would suspect. I can't get thin wood to air dry without warping, even in UK humidity. I'm going to build a form and try some elm. Might need to get some new clamps though. I don't suspect my plastic quick clamps will take well to heat treating.
Early in the video you can see Keith remove bark and the cambium was stuck to the bark. Winter cut wood makes removing bark and cambium more work. Summer cut work or late spring the work is easier.
The heat is not as intense on the handle area. The coals are more precisely placed under the limbs. It is just a matter of controlling the heat and moisture. This is accomplished by the amount of coals and raising or losing the wood. Keeping you focus on your work until finished.
Incredible,thankyou for this knowledge! Can these bow be further enhanced by a sinew backing to allow for a longer draw length with less bow? That would be a another great experiment!
Hello Keith and Thad, I admire your fire hardening method and your style of bows, very slim yet not too long. If you don't mind me asking, how would you change the layout and process for sugar maple? Can it handle nearly as much as hickory or elm? Thank you.
Hello and thanks for your comments. I have never used sugar maple, it does not grow here. If it is strong in tension I would say yes it will work fine. The design is a matter of preference to the maker and what he is wanting to achieve.
Nice how do I learn those skills I'm on an adventure right now I'm going to build a Osage shorter Cheyenne it'll be a modified Cheyenne because it will have recurved ends on it of about 56 in Long somewhere in the neighborhood of 44 to 46 lb at 26 and 1/2 in draw you guys got any information that I can obtain I'm sure appreciate it thanks and again very nice bow is it for sale
Thanks. We have fire hardened, hickory, elm, white oak, flowering dogwood, persimmon, sweetgum. I have heard others fire harden, privet, black locust, promegranite and a couple more. If it is a tough wood with a strong back, it should work. Osage does not need it. Osage has all the good elements anyway. Thanks
Not in 12 hours. Self bows are able to take game as well as a sinewed back. It is not possible to sinew back a bow in 12 hours. I can promise you the bow we made is very lethal on big game. Sinew has its place in primitive archery but that was not the point of the video. Thanks
Hi I have an important question arc length usually starts from a few inches to a few inches. Also the diameter of the middle tip and the handle and its width? You can share a drawing or image
Hi, have just watched this video and your dvd. Have no access to hickory here, so far I have only made board bows.I have roughed out a 54in flatbow from a fairly average piece of maple, I plan to use that to experiment with your firehardening tecnique. I think the wood is pretty dry, maybe around 6 to 7 percent.Should I go ahead and strap it to a form and start the hardening process. I was just wondering about the difference between fire hardening a piece of green wood and an already dry wood..Cheers from Mike in New Zealand..
Wish I could sit around a campfire with these guys and learn from them
Thank you.
Same here man. The knowledge between these two guys is amazing.
@@BeckumOutdoors will Ash make a 100lb bow? Flatbow
@@tonymaurice4157 make the limbs 3” at tha fades and taper it gradually to the string knocks
@@tonymaurice4157 I made a 90 lb bow from ash, but it takes a lot of set at those weights. I might try another one, but this time I'll do an ELB.
Thank you for this demonstration, guys! I tried fire hardening a freshly-cut green beech bow and it worked!
Great video! I used a fire hardened hickory bow following this method and took a nice doe with stone points and all this past season, keep up the good work guys!
Good deal. Great accomplishment.
Make a Creek Indian bow in my reading and artifact finding they used a bow about 5 foot long or shorter flat back and rounded belly D shape when strung up
Lost knowledge is being regained. Thank you.
Thanks glad you watch our information.
There’s ALOT of knowledge y’all have! I’ve been working with fire hardened bows, and y’all helped me out a lot.
Pretty astonishing feat! Thanks to your research this will become commonplace.
Thank you very much.
I give the credit to Keith Shannon. He was the man that took the time to experiment with white woodS and fire. He asked me to come on the ride and I am glad he did.
Game changer. Thanks for your hard work. I keep thinking about a native American working the bow limbs over a fire and fine tuning their bow.
Outstanding! This has made me love bowmaking even more. I am trying your technique on an elm bow and wow, no checks! Wont be 12 hours but more like a week. Thanks for the great videos!
Thank you
Keep experimenting.
This is interesting I saw Clay Hayes make one in less than 24 hour, I think his was made out of Elm. So I think you guys have a winner here. Thanks for sharing what can be done with white wood bows!
Thanks.
And without power tools which has to slow you down !
I really like the small pencil block used during tillering for the short-length curvature guide. I like that there is something physical, a reference material (flat block) to exemplify the changes in curvature - and that it doubles as a marking tool to identify flat/curved/shallow spots with the pencil.
Yes I agree. It helps to really fine tune your tiller. Thanks for watching
It is called a tillering gizmo if you want to make one. The plans are online. Simple little tool. Works best on straight staves or boards.
Thad you never cease to amaze me. What you both have discovered or rediscovered,not only helps us understand more about what the natives probably did,but your contribution to the bow world is outstanding. I live in Wales in the U.K. so woods here are different, but I do believe this can be applied to many woods here. Thankyou gentleman.
You have most certainly sold me your DVD.
Kind regards,
Antonio
Thanks brother.
Thank you so much for this . I am learning from everyone on you tube on how to build my own bows here in Missouri .
Thank you
Gentlemen. What a pleasure to see your excitement with this issue. Congratulations and a big thank you for sharing this. I love the reflex on your bow.
Thanks Victor.
Unbelievable!! Thank you for the amazing content. Been wanting to get into bow building for years. Thanks again.
Go ahead and take the leap into bow making , it gives great satifaction.
I really enjoyed this tutorial on building a bow from green stave to fire hardened, reflexed shooting hunting bow in less than 12 hrs...Thad, you and Keith are on to something here...I'll have to give it a try...have some hop hornbeam that would benefit from this treatment process....thanks for posting guys!
Thank you.
Great video. I believe it was Marc St. Louis from northern Ontario, Canada that pioneered heat- treating bows.
Heat treating and fire hardened are similar but not the same. Keith's method is a much long and hotter heat penetration. Mark st Louis did outstanding work which is well documented in the bowyers bibles.
@@BeckumOutdoors thanks
Have used and instructed many to use hickory, ash, eastern hop horn bean etc. Hickory and hornbeam(ironwood misnomer) hold moisture more than most woods. I weigh my bow staves and when weight stops dropping it is 10-12 moisture content. When fast drying a bow, moisture meter only shows surface moisture. Hickory and Hophornbean are top grade woods when dried and tiller properly are great. My fastest bow was a hop horn bow made for my hunting buddy .Faster than any of my Osage bows. That’s my two cent Bob Brooks
I want to thank y’all for sharing this information with us. I made my first white wood bow back in 2003 and have always had issues with string follow. I took one of my older pecan bows and fire hardened it the other day and couldn’t believe how much it increases the weight of bow. Going to sinew back it next week and hopefully put it back in active duty as soon as it’s dry enough to retailer and shoot! Thanks and God bless both of you!
You are welcome
Thanks Thad and Keith, these bows are amazing and I can see why the Indian Bows were described as the finest in the world.
Thank you both for your hard work and discovery.
Yes, thank you.
I bought your dvd and thank you for sharing the knowledge. I have a hickory stave harvested years ago and two black locust staves. I want to make south eastern style d bows with them. Can’t wait to use the fire technique with them. Also have a bunch of hickory staves i harvested last year in Pennsylvania. Some are so straight. Can’t wait to make and use you techniques
Great, let me know your outcome. Thanks
Thanks for another great video guys. Invaluable information that you are rediscovering and passing on. Since i bought your video I've made several successful fire hardened hickory bows. I always have 3 or 4 "in progress". I just finished a 42" 45# @ 21" gull wing black locust fire hardened plains style bow. It is backed in sinew as well. I realize that BL is generally weak in compression and strong in tension, so adding sinew would typically make more compression problems. I was banking on the fire hardening to strengthen the belly so much that it would handle the added tension and really increase the performance of the bow. Long story short, it worked. The little bow is super fast and accurate. So far no belly problems... Thank you!
Glad to know, i have some black locust staves i want to make 5ft 2in bows in the south eastern style. I wanted to heat treat them.
I have two staves of seasoned BL. Could you elaborate and update please.
What exactly are you wanting to make? If you haven't bought the video on fire hardening id suggest getting that first. That way you can learn how to properly fire harden the staves.
Great information, I was thinking about it too! I'll give a try
You fellers are changing the world
Thanks, one bow at a time.
I just dun a 77 long self bow with this method an ill never do a self bow again without fire hardening the belly I did the back a little to an this one is d shape classic English longbow style not a problem small Crack at the tips but it was 80 overall an I got away with 77 overall blown away guys I figured were it was d shaped it would blowup but in a week I've got a amazing 42lb longbow with no string follow thank you very much guys you really have changed bow building forever
Thank you
GREETINGS GENTLEMAN.IM LATE WITH A COMMENT.WONDERFULL EXPERIMENT.I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED HICKORY.STRONG, FLEXIBLE AND EASY TO WORK WITH.FROM MR.TOUFIE SOUTH AFRICA CAPE TOWN.THANK YOU GENTLEMAN
Thank you.
This is like opening Christmas presents!
Holy sh.t, that is one snappy bow!
Incredible that you are able to build a bow like this within a day..!!
Oh yes it is.
I bought the video from your website and absolutely love the hickory bows I have build from it one is 70 lb draw and one is 60 lb awesome bows but I want to see you guys do a video on one out of sweet gum I had 10 trees blow down in a tornado and I cut up 25 staves that have been drying for 8 months.... I built one and it snapped when I was stringing it it was 55lb on the tiller tree I think the problem was the fact that I went straight to tilllering right after hardening instead of letting it take on some moisture first I think that might be a critical step with sweetgum and I have 25 more attempts just gotta find the time to do it
Don't cook sweetgum very hard like hickory and a long bend in the handle design will be the recipe.
Thanks, don't cook sweetgum very hard like hickory. A long bend thru the handle design will be best.
Just finished watching your new video Keith
You guys are really something
Well done
I am really motivated now to get on with the staff you sent me
Thanks again
Herb
Thank you.
Keith
Did notice a a small problem when I started to further shape and tiller the fire harden pre shaped staff
How hard it had became, my planes and cutting tools was a bit difficult cutting the bow wood
So I went to grinding and rasping it to final shape ,that worked much much betterI guess it would be better to pre shape fairly well before hardening then tiller after firing
What do you think?
Thanks again
Herb@@BeckumOutdoors
I just tried fire hardening a white wood bow after buying your video I am at a loss for words. I thought nothing could beat Osage but I live in Georgia and hickory is very easy to find thank you and keep going.
Thanks keep making great white wood bows
. Let me know about your results.
@@BeckumOutdoors ok results were better than expected it was a little over 45 pounds maybe before the fire hardening process. After it was a little over 50 and the dark amber golden honey color is nice when you hit it with tru oil.
Unbelievable the things I’ve been learning from yawls videos I’ve been making hickory bow for years , And going to Fire Harden my first bow in a week or two. Might have to bring a few of my old Hickory bow out of retirement and Fire Harding them also, thank y’all so much and hope y’all keep making videos
Thank you. I have taken old follow the string hickory bows and transformed them into better weapons. Good luck.
Man, this is awesome. Think this would be a fun thing to do with a sapling on the river bank to pass time while watching your fishing poles. Brother y’all are on to something, and proving a lot of theories wrong. Outstanding.
Sounds like fun.
Out here in Idaho we have Service Berry which I make axe handles with. Also 2 bows, which were aged 1 - 2 yrs. Since it is similar to Hickory I am setting up to fire cure a green stave. Check in later....
Thanks gents for the pioneering work!!
Hope you Success with your projects.
Just bought the fire hardening DVD can't wait to watch it!
Thanks, I hope you make some great bows.
Keep it up. Love your videos.
Also, I enjoyed your fire hardening video. I found the brake test to be very interesting!
Thank you. I thought Keith's break test was genius also.
Awesome work. Thanks for sharing!
You know that our ancestors did it the easiest way that they could. They didn't have time to waste needlessly. I believe that they had a very good understanding of what they could do with each kind of wood that was available to them. So much info has been lost and is being lost. To me it just stands to reason that they would have made the best use out of fire in so many things and ways. They were very efficient with their resources and wasted very little in order to not just survive but to thrive as they did.
Yes, I agree 100 percent.
Loving the further research and experimentation yall are doing
Thank you.
Looking to make my first real bow up here in Wisconsin. Considering how plentiful hickory can be up here, I think I'll give this method a shot. I was wondering if this would work for Black Walnut? The loggers always leave these around, so I wanted to see if they were decent for making a bow. The wood is gorgeous.
Yes it would work with walnut but hard to beat hickory.
Thanks! Just cut a hickory. Going to give it a shot soon. @@BeckumOutdoors
This is a great video. A lot of knowledge to be gained here. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks
Bought the dvd and am planning on fire hardening my first one tomorrow. Very good job guys.
Would absolutely love to see more videos about this. You guys are on the frontier of bow building for us modern folks that are into this stuff.
Good luck hope you make a great bow
Hope you much success making bows.
Bought the video last year and loved it! Wanted to try different trees and privet bush was one that took really well. I also had a scrap piece of hickory I sinewed 6 months before the video 46" long 1 3/8" wide D bow. Was 60 at 26" then dropped down to 45.. didn't care if it broke or not so fire hardened it for hour & 1/2 just to see if sinew would pull and a 10 lb weight in handle. Turned out 55 then down to 49-50 and got a young doe with it!! That bow had a piece pop out of the back of it before sinewing and just wanted to see if one layer of sinew could save it then saw this video and made it even better!! Hickory can really take a lot of abuse. Thank you Keith and Thad for sharing! I don't have any osage but I do have 40 acres of sweetgum and hickory😁
I was wondering about privet. I enjoyed your story. Thanks
Learned something the hard way the other day. Had a hickory someone kinda messed up awhile back and tried to save it for them. Limbs were 3/8" thick 1 3/8" wide dude strung it with a hinge so I reflexed it and fired it without form because of huge knot. As it cooked the reflex came out and tried putting weight on handle but no good. Still made a bow but dude had it too thin from start
@@justinspencer1539 At lest you tried.
Now this makes more sense how the Indians do. I am going to try this. I wish I could learn from them . Hint start classes. Something to share your knowledge. Thanks for sharing . I got the video and its worth getting people.
Thanks Scott
Great knowledge!!! Thank You soooooo much for sharing😍🤩😍🤩😍🤩
Thank you for your interest.
There is a section in the book Survival Skills of Native California by Paul D. Campbell that goes over how a native in Southern California made a bow out of black willow in one day. He did not heat treat the belly but he did heat the tips and bent them inward to deflex the tips, then he strung the bow to hold the bend into position. The bow was then declared ready to shoot and had enough power to kill a rabbit and it could shoot an arrow about 100 yards. This bow was only about 50 inches long for small game, but some natives in Southern California also made bows as tall as the archer or longer in order to be powerful enough to take large game.
Yes that sounds right. The big difference between California and the Southeast is moisture. California is a very dry environment most of the year. Here in the Southeast is very humid and wet. You have to consider the environment. Sinew back bows were never used here because that would be a disaster. Too much humidity and rain. But in California they were used historically. People developed bows and arrows to work in their region and conditions.
Thanks brother keep up the great work. Watching your videos made me start building my first bow
Thank you.
So rad! Doing this with board bows as well, you guys should try a red oak or white oak build!
White oak has been done. Thanks
Awesome job- love your dvd I bought one from Billy. My friends and I will be using your technique very soon too build ours....experimenting with many Michigan woods- thanks for sharing.
Good luck making your bows
Amei seus vídeos faz lembrar da minha juventude
Thank you.
Please make you the eastern woodland powathan bow!❤
I made a Powhatan bow several years ago. The bow I copied is in the Ashmolean Museum in England. Several Powhatan Algonquian bows were taken from American to England back when the Powhatan was still a powerful empire. They are still there.
Hey Thad, enjoyed watching this process. Keep it up 👍
Thanks
I made a fire hardened bow and it is awesome
Thank you for the information
Amazing job
Thank you.
I just fire hardened my first hickory bow. it was on the heat for about 1 hour and 15 mins
So glad to see more content from you great stuff
Thank you.
Would it work if you just dug a pit rather than using the bricks, but added tunnels like a dakota fire hole?
Yes it will work with a dug pit.
good to see you again Thad. love your videos. i haven't seen Brian in a long time. is he ok?
He is ok. Hope you will hear from him soon. Thanks for asking.
Awesome job guys n a very beautiful bow
Thanks James.
I love making self bows and wish I had friends that also were interested in making them together.😢
A lot of primitive bow and arrow makers, flint knappers and the like walk their own trail. A trail not to worn out.
Man ive watched the other video about 100 times and already put blocks in the back yard cant wait to try it my property is covered up in hickory
Sounds like you are set.
I was wondering if you’d mind explaining how to make a form. Hickory is everywhere where I live. I haven’t made a bow yet I’d like to try something like you did in this video after I make a couple bows and figure things out.
A couple of 2 x 6 treated boards long enough, nail them together. Use a straight edge that bends and lay out your desired setback. Keep nails below your layout line and cut the form outline. A band saw is best or you can use a jigsaw. sand the curve to the line. Smooth things up. No rules here.
@@BeckumOutdoors thank you sir.
Awesome guys! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for the tips
Any time
There is no hickery here, but the closest thing is a type of hazel(they are in the same genus/subfamily).
I have made primitive bows in a day, and put them in the car in the sun to dry out, never seen a cracking.
Cracking happens if you leave the wood with the bark to dry slowly.
Amazing. I will try it for sure. Thank you so much.
Thank you also.
Wow yall are awesome thats amazing hope i get to see more videos
Thanks Mark. Hope to do more videos.
Master of the wilderness
Nice craft ideas 👍
I would love to see a video committed to using just sweet gum as your bow wood and possibly pine if this might work just out of curiosity and fun 🤩
The information in this video was invaluable and fantastic.thakyou.the only thing that I can say that is not complimentary is that the gentleman who did the intro could have done it in one fifth the time.he repeated the same info seven or eight times I started counting at 3.thanks again
Thanks, shorter version now alive.
Awesome job guys
Thanks
I really enjoyed your Video!
Thank you
Ash wood works well also but has a pith in saplings. I have been shooting mine daily for the past 2 months thanks.
Hope you made a great bow from ash.
Love your DVD, could fire hardening be done to board bows as well?
Yes i have heard some guys are doing that with success.
Very impressive! Always wanted to keep with Osage cause what everyone is told but I have so much hickory to use! Definitely going to try this out. Thanks so much for the content! Would definitely love to see more of what you two can do.
Hope you make some quality bows.
That is absolutely awesome
Thanks
I'm gonna do all my bows like that thank you so much
Yep I dug a trench in my yard and tried it
Yeah it's an amazing technique ! Those guys are awsome. I really wonder if you sinew back those fire hardened bow !!!! what will be the end result
We have sinew backed many fire hardened bows and they are wonderful weapons. Keith has done many sinew backed bows that are fine quality.
Keep em coming 👍
We hope to. Thanks
연장이 최고 입니다 추천 합니다
Hi Thad an Keith. This is SO exciting! Been building bows for 3 years now. In South Africa we do not have the same woods available. What I have used before is white Mulberry. It is also a white hardwood. A bit harder than Elm but softer than Hickory. It also develops quite allot of sting follow.
Have you tried Mulberry at all?
I can get my hand on some honey Locust as well. Have you tried it with this process?
Going to test it anyway and let you know.
Yes, i believe it would work. Each wood type may take more or less heat from the fire. Sounds like you have understanding of this concept.
This stuff makes me incredibly excited, going into a craze now with testing various local woods. Could this be why it is often assumed that the natives used really weak bows? That they simply did not understand that they were firehardened? Interestingly an elm bow in Norway (found in a glacier) has been labled too weak for hunting and a possible kids bow. Maybe it was firehardened to raise the poundage?
Please keep me informed about your experiments. Some native bows were low poundage but the bows of the Southeast U.S were very strong. The Spanish who were here recorded that they could not draw the bows of the Florida natives. We are still learning having to look thru the fog of history. Thanks for your comment.
I realize this was posted a year ago. But it's love to know what you found from other local woods.
If your on any of the bow making FB groups, please consider posting this video and any results you find from trying other woods.
Keep learning!👍
@@livingprimitively
That is interesting results. From your wood in assuming your in the UK, as I am. Thanks for sharing your results. Even more valuable using woods that I have available.
Yes, in sure it would warp crazily without a form. Pretty essential for this method on most woods I would suspect. I can't get thin wood to air dry without warping, even in UK humidity.
I'm going to build a form and try some elm. Might need to get some new clamps though. I don't suspect my plastic quick clamps will take well to heat treating.
@@livingprimitively thank you. I will try the leaves on method next time👍
Thank you so much!
Thanks
Did you leave the cambium layer when fire hardening like you did on the 3 day build? Then take off before tillering?
Early in the video you can see Keith remove bark and the cambium was stuck to the bark. Winter cut wood makes removing bark and cambium more work. Summer cut work or late spring the work is easier.
Thad !!! Hows your neck brother ? You look healthy man .... Im lovin this !!!!!!!!
Thanks Jesse, i am moving along just not as fast as I once did.
Boa tarde essa madeira ainda estava verde quando vocês a trabalharam abraço e obrigado
Yes, green.
Does the video cover the defrent species of hickory elm ect.
They are all good. Does not matter with subs of hickory or elm.
How do you avoid cracks in the handle? Make thinner?
The heat is not as intense on the handle area. The coals are more precisely placed under the limbs. It is just a matter of controlling the heat and moisture. This is accomplished by the amount of coals and raising or losing the wood. Keeping you focus on your work until finished.
Is this bow 72”? Great build either way.
Gotta try this! Got plenty of hickory.
Yes, give it a try
@@BeckumOutdoors I did! Got it a little too hot. There is a little browning on the back of the bow is that acceptable?
@@j.shorter4716 I have seen browning on the back that was fine, but it depends on how severe.
Incredible,thankyou for this knowledge!
Can these bow be further enhanced by a sinew backing to allow for a longer draw length with less bow?
That would be a another great experiment!
Already done and the answer is yes.
Love it guys👍
Thanks Uncle
Hello Keith and Thad, I admire your fire hardening method and your style of bows, very slim yet not too long.
If you don't mind me asking, how would you change the layout and process for sugar maple? Can it handle nearly as much as hickory or elm?
Thank you.
Hello and thanks for your comments. I have never used sugar maple, it does not grow here. If it is strong in tension I would say yes it will work fine. The design is a matter of preference to the maker and what he is wanting to achieve.
Nice how do I learn those skills I'm on an adventure right now I'm going to build a Osage shorter Cheyenne it'll be a modified Cheyenne because it will have recurved ends on it of about 56 in Long somewhere in the neighborhood of 44 to 46 lb at 26 and 1/2 in draw you guys got any information that I can obtain I'm sure appreciate it thanks and again very nice bow is it for sale
Study and make wood shavings. No joke.
Great video! Has that same bow held up after some time?
Yes still shooting. all these bows hold up.
@@BeckumOutdoors impressive! So after that treatment you would consider the timber fully seasoned?
@@fishinbite Yes, 100 percent.
Have you tried fire hardening osage? I am interested in black locust, have you fire hardened that? I can't wait to try this method. Love the DVD.
Thanks. We have fire hardened, hickory, elm, white oak, flowering dogwood, persimmon, sweetgum. I have heard others fire harden, privet, black locust, promegranite and a couple more. If it is a tough wood with a strong back, it should work. Osage does not need it. Osage has all the good elements anyway. Thanks
How much faster and stronger would that bow be if you backed it ...
Not in 12 hours. Self bows are able to take game as well as a sinewed back. It is not possible to sinew back a bow in 12 hours. I can promise you the bow we made is very lethal on big game. Sinew has its place in primitive archery but that was not the point of the video. Thanks
Great videos!!! I have an elm stave I want to fireharden. Approximately how much charcoal do I need to purchase?
The video explains all you need to understand the process
Hi I have an important question arc length usually starts from a few inches to a few inches. Also the diameter of the middle tip and the handle and its width? You can share a drawing or image
Hi, have just watched this video and your dvd. Have no access to hickory here, so far I have only made board bows.I have roughed out a 54in flatbow from a fairly average piece of maple, I plan to use that to experiment with your firehardening tecnique. I think the wood is pretty dry, maybe around 6 to 7 percent.Should I go ahead and strap it to a form and start the hardening process. I was just wondering about the difference between fire hardening a piece of green wood and an already dry wood..Cheers from Mike in New Zealand..
Do it. No problem.
Pois até hoje sou arqueiro Vou confecionar um deste Amei
Thanks