997.2 Porsche 911 Prices going up!!
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- #Porsche997.2
#Porsche997
#911
This is a 2012 Porsche Carrera Black Edition, which is a 997.2 model number. These cars have gone up 10-20% over the past year as the new 992 has been introduced. For many enthusiasts, these cars sold from 2009-2012 are the last real 911 models with a smaller overall size, shorter wheelbase and more traditional 911 driving dynamics. The Black Edition Porsche 911 commemorates the end of this run and it was sold as a basic Carrera with a manual transmission, black paint and interior plus turbo wheels. The manual transmission cars are the 997.2 models that are going up in value and if you want one don't delay.
To find out more about this 2012 Porsche 911 visit www.corcars.com
The DFI engine on the 997.2 is rock solid. Has very quick throttle response and when you floor it the car just pulls you so hard! The hydraulic steering gives you a lot of feedbacks and the updated suspension is just right for street and track use. I don't care if this car is appreciating, I'm never selling mine.
Have a manual or pdk? And how many miles now?
@@Xspeedspec manual.
The 997.2 will eventually appreciate like the 964 and 993 did
I feel like the most critical information was left out of this video.
99.9% of the 997.1 cars have the dual-row IMS bearing (not replaceable without splitting the case). But these bearings have a very low failure rate, in fact, for cars that have been serviced regularly, it’s a non-issue. The engines are prone to bore-scoring, but the probability of occurrence appears to be less than 10%. Again, the better maintained cars (frequent oil changes), are less prone.
However, for those individuals who have had failures, it is the end of the world and we all hear about it - as it should be.
The result is that 997.1 cars are quite a bit cheaper than the 997.2 cars, and IMHO a total bargain.
I have a manual 2006 997.1 C4S with some neat options (X51, PCCB, GT Silver). I also have a 991.2 GT3. In terms of bang for buck, the 997 wins hands-down. Of course the GT3 is in another league for performance, but how much of that performance do I really get to use on the road, without landing myself in jail?
My 997 is a low mileage unmarked example that I use as a pseudo-daily (meaning in the summer, when it’s dry, I’ll go everywhere in it). It’s fabulous, practical and a joy to drive and look at.
997.1 cars have been going up in value too. Just take a look on the Bring a Trailer auction site - the best examples are going for significantly more money than a few years ago.
The 997 is a compact car, and on narrow twisty roads (absolutely the best place to enjoy a 911), you really notice the size difference vs the 991.
In summary - find yourself a good manual example before it’s too late :-)
Agree with all of this I've a 997.1 c2s. Bargain
@@paulcampbell114 Ditto
I bought my 997.2 with PDK this week in Triple Black set up. The PDK is a perfect double clutch transmission and in Sports Plus mode amazing drive.
There's a black 997.2 S with PDK , at a dealer near me.....good condition.....should I ?
I have a 2012 997.2 C4S Full leather interior, Sport Chrono, PDK, 18-way adjustable sport seat, Clear tail lights, Black on Black. Loving it.
Same sentiment, I have a 996 turbo manual and a 87 Carrera manual, I would not trade my 997.2 PDK for a manual.
Funny how I was literally talking to my dad about this last night and the 997’s going up... couple hours later your post this video.
Good timing
Proud owner of a 2009 997.2 manual cabriolet. It is the best car I’ve ever owned!
Not sure why the 997.1 has become the 13th floor of 911’s but that car is appreciating as well.
Exactly! 997.1 definitely is, own one and have not lost a cent in its value 👌
Excellent Video! I was telling somebody the other day that this cars are going up in value. I'm the proud owner of a 2010 C2S with manual transmission. Spent some time looking for one until I found it. I made $15k the day I bought it. Car is in excellent condition, my brother owns a used car dealership and the first time he saw it he thought it was brand new, like 2021 new!
The 997 was also the last non GT car with a 6 speed manual gearbox.
The 991 and 992 manual gearboxes are 7 speed.
This is true, I prefer a 6sp, 7sp is an overkill IMO.
997.2 debuted the PDK as well, for those who don't want a manual. I just purchased a 987.2 Boxster so I wouldn't have to worry about bore scoring or IMS issues.
I also heard there are bore scoring issues on some 997.2 models. Have you heard about that?
How can 10 yr old car already hit it’s depreciation curve bottom and start to go back up? Truly amazing cars
small production numbers for a vastly bigger audience. most can't afford or are interested in buying new because who wants to lose half of a huge pile of money. Not many. The market is a peculiar place when it comes to determining the length and duration of the depreciation curve, especially when you have several booms and busts in the financial market during that depreciation curve made worse by essentially free money interest rates. But eventually the big audience arrives and if the supply is limited the prices will rebound somewhat. The air cooled cars have skyrocketed because so few were made. I believe less than 1500 for all of North America in the last year of the 1990s 993 generation. Not surprising that these have become the most valuable despite the mechanical issues not justifying these prices. At the end of the day Porsche is a small brand in production numbers relative to the number of people who have $30k to $40k to spend
If you look around you’ll see the 997.1 are just as sought after. The last of the analogs destined to be a classic
997.2 manuals were sold in low numbers. It’s amazing how the prices have been rising. Many don’t want a larger 991
The pick of the litter IMO is the 997.2 Carrera GTS because it has the wide body usually reserved for the 4 wheel drive cars.
Even the mighty 997 GT3 doesn’t have the wide body!
The only other rear wheel drive 997 that has the wide body is the epic GT3 RS.
Very nice! Appreciate the info.
This is my favorite generation of a modern 911. Its is the perfect size 911 too. The current 911 is beautiful, but it just looks a bit too bloated.
Yeah, except when the rear spoiler lift up when high reach high speed. It just... look very ugly.
@@scootpoyo9734 I personally like it 👍
Its a matter of taste. It's there to provide down force as you know. 🐋 tail 😆
Zach, I am so glad that you did this review. I have been waiting years for SOMEBODY to recognize the amazing features and technical advantages of this specific generation of 911. I completely agree that the ESSENCE of a 911 (or any sports car really) is the feel of smallness and connectedness that is TOTALLY lost with the newer generations. To me they feel huge, bloated, and perfect for grand touring instead of being designed for twisty back roads and drivers ed events at the local PCA chapter. I believe that the 997.2 is in fact the last REAL ANALOG 911 that will ever be made. The engine is not plagued with the dreaded IMS failure sword of Damocles since it doesn't have one. But it also has hydraulic steering (not servos), a throttle cable (not a transmitter), a naturally aspirated engine (not turbochargers), and the classic SIX-speed manual transmission (not the bizarre SEVEN-speed) manual used on the 991 & 992 cars if you can actually find one without PDK.
At some point (probably decades from now) the Porsche fanatics will actually realize that the 997.2 is THE best combination of modern technology and classic visceral Porsche driving experience... But for now, everyone seems transfixed by underpowered and unreliable but oh so romantic air-cooled early 911s. That's cool. I'll just enjoy the crap out of my 2009 Carrera S in Basalt Black Metallic with its rifle-bolt MANUAL transmission while everyone else looks at me with condescending pity.
Thanks again for the review Zach!! You are awesome. And I am totally obsessed with watches like you are.
I am sorry to burst your bubble but all 911s from the 996.2 onwards have an electronic gaspedal.
Picked up my GTS Manual in 2016 with 16k miles. Not selling. Really enjoying the car and have made simple upgrades to make it mine. The air-cooled aura is strong. I'm good. No, check that. I am great with my 12 GTS.
Got me a 997.2 Targa 4S Manual a few years back and just enjoying it every time. Even looking at it is already a nice moment of the day. But driving through the alps is even better 😎
Another plus on the long term value of these cars is that they were released in the midst of a global economic crash and didn't sell well. There are more than 2 times as many 997.1 Carreras on the road as 997.2 Carreras.
I’ve owned two 997.2 6sps and they have both strong reliably, great soul and good looks inside and out! Great blend between the 993 and 991+ series. Should continue to appreciate
very well.
Couldn't agree more!
The same thing is happening down under here in Australia! A 997.2 is now very hard to come by, let alone a manual one. Great little item - love your show 👍
Sold my 964Turbo a year ago and my 7spd Carrera T last October and have been enjoying my Taycan 4S for almost a year now. Last week I bought a stripped 997.2 C2 6spd without even SC, PSE or BOSE I Macadamia Brown metallic over a golden brown full leather interior and alcantara roof lining, and I’m really enjoying the smaller size 911 with its potent crisp 3.6 DFI unit and the super slick 6spd manual. Bought it for next to nothing and having a blast with the old school drive clearly showing the rear engined as it bobs along the roads undulations like a 964 and demanding more effort in the twisties as opposed to the razor sharp rear axle steered Carrera T that can handle anything you throw at it without breaking a sweat. That translates into having 911 fun in the 997.2 without doing jail time🌟
This is a numbers game: the 2008 recession drove the production numbers of the MK2 down by ~45% from the MK1,
I am keeping my 997.2 turbo.
Keeping my manual .2S as well!
Just purchased a 997.2 c4s she’s a beauty
Me too! Turbo S.
I owned a base 997.2. It was a 2010, but with a pdk instead of the manual. It was a good car but I traded it in for a 991 C2S. For me, the 991 handles better, rides better, and the interior is light years better than the 997. To each his own, I guess.
This video is too little too late. Prices has been up on these years ago. Nothing wrong with the 996 generation Zach. As long as the IMS bearing has been retrofitted with a ceramic one, the M96 engines can also be as reliable. All 911 cars are appreciating. Even the 996 cars.
All 997.2 have no IMS bearing
IMS is the least of your worries owning a 98-08 Boxster, Cayman, 996 or 997.1. It’s the biscuit cylinder walls that score, destroy your engine and turn into a 25000$ engine rebuild that’s the BIG concern.
This is my favorite generation of the more modern 911s. I almost bought a burgundy one of these years ago, very nice car.
I have the burgundy one. Bought it in 2017.
I bought a 2006 997.1 manual in 2009 w/ 4k miles. I drove it for 5 years and sold it with 22k miles on it. It was bulletproof. However, as the warranty had expired, the IMS issue
was always in the back of my mind. It took a long time to sell and didn't bring as much as it likely should have.
I would not go with another 997.1 and would defer to the 997.2 or 991.1 for a number of reasons (not only the IMS issue in 996/997.1).
Are 997.1’s still a good buy rn?
I still miss my 997.1s. I sold it for 60k when my 2018 gts came in. Wish I had space to keep it
still, not a bad problem to have ;-)
So this specific car should be avoided with pdk? In terms of upside? Manual option stressed a few times here or is that only because this is the one for sale from COR
I sold a base 997.1 without any loss in 2015 and a 997.1 4s in 2020 at a profit after 5 years and bought a 991.1S cab you see in the picture which a great improvement with pdk, sports exhaust and much more.
I have a 2012 997.2 C4S Full leather interior, Sport Chrono, PDK, 18-way adjustable sport seat, Clear tail lights, Black on Black. Loving it.
Great review I own # 393 of 1911 17 k miles Thinking of trading in for a 992 model but every time I drive this car I decide to to keep it - thank you for the review Buffalo New York
I have a 2010 base 911 with manual transmission and love it.
There you go, the used market is making it clear that manual transmissions are highly desirable if you plan to keep a car out of warranty. This trend was already happening with high end cars like Ferraris. Manuals are fun and I believe the lower cost, use of resources and weight of manuals over the life of a car outweighs the slight advantage in MPG that modern automatics offer. A manual car maintained for the life of the car is a resource-conscience choice.
Nice review, wonderful car. Like you, I appreciate the 911. Growing up, there was always a 911 (we were born 1 year apart). So glad the Cayenne saved the company. We came very close to loosing the 911. My English high school teacher had one (1981-1983)! She also had a Peugeot 604. Thank you for doing this review Zack.
He forgot to mention it’s the last of the hydraulic assisted steering...
True
Luckily still have my 997.2 C2S manual coupe :)
09 997.2 C2S manual here myself!
IMS Bearing in the 996 and 997.1 is not good.
$$$ to replace.
The 991 and 992 cars have a 7 speed manual gearboxes.
The new smaller more agile 911 is actually called a 718 GTS 4 litre with a manual transmission. ;)
Yup
The problem is that anyone who does a back to back comparison between the 997.2 and 991 usually always plump for the 991 as it is a much better car overall so they will rise until they hit the crossover valuations with their newer, equivalent 991.1.
Not only more desirable car for reasons cited, the production numbers on the 997.2 manual cars are much lower. The .2 cars are the last Turbo manual 911s manufactured.
I sold my 997.1 Carrera today and bought a 997.2 Turbo S.
Well done!
Thank you ! The internal designation numbers are enough to drive you crazy (this coming from a 987 guy !). Off to subscribe and see if you've covered the 991 (pretty headlights).
I bought my 09 Carerra S cabriolet in May 2017. Triple black. Love it.
Ah, forgot to add it is a manual.
Well played sir
Beautiful example.
Any thoughts on my model year 2011 (997.2) C2S w/ PDK, turbo wheels, low miles for a 2011? The car is blissful and I've always wondered if it would ever appreciate in value. Meteorite grey.
The millennials will be the ones who are more incline to the PDK but most can't afford this car. The ones that can afford are the baby boomers and of course they want the 6sp manual. 🙂
The 6 speed cars are definitely sought-after and appreciating better, but the PDK cars have been appreciating as well. I believe my 2009 C2S PDK is worth more than it was when I bought it in 2015, even with the additional mileage. Of course, I don't plan to sell this car - when the new Corvette was introduced there was a brief moment of temptation (exotic looks, modern tech, crazy performance, WARRANTY) but that disappeared pretty quickly. Even after spending time in my buddy's new C8, I have no interest in the change. My 997.2S is here to stay.
Many feel the PDK version is a better drive especially when paddles are fitted. Superb auto, sequential or paddle change. Best of both worlds 😄
I have a 87 Carrera manual and a 2001 996 turbo manual. I would not trade my 997.2 CS PDK for a manual… the PDK in the 997.2 is blissful.
Nice story line but the 997.2 appreciation will not persist. The value increase is going on with virtually all new/used vehicles. 997.2 values will return to normal levels in due time. Just wait.
I miss mine a bit. Sold it for a 2018 GT3 with manual...
GT3 for the win!
How do you track down Porsche production numbers? I’ve tried unsuccessfully to determine how many 991.1 GTS, 7MT with centre lock wheels are in existence? Best looking modern 911 IMO.
I have #54 out of 325 built for North America in 2012 model year
@@dougwhaley1169 991.1 GTS was only offered 2015 & 2016
@@yyz4165 I have a 997.2, not a 991
Also, the 997.2 came during the financial crisis. So, not that many. Anyway this video is kind of late. The market has spilled into the 99.1.
Agreed. They were always expensive.
The last of the actual sports cars and analogue 911. This will probably only trail behind the 993 at the end of the day.
If you didn't notice the 997.2 with the 6sp manual transmission is currently in the same price range as the 993. This car out performs the 993 in every aspect and still has the analogue feel.
@@713vinh The value of these cars is not tied to performance or a 996 would be worth more than a 993. "At the end of the day" means when both technologies are antiquated i believe the Air Cooled Analogue will be worth more than a 997. I have a 2011 GTS so I guess i hope i'm wrong although i doubt i will be.
Keeping my 2009 C4S 👍✌❤
Nice one!
Exhaust mods? Considered Gundo hack? Or do you already have sports exhaust?
All stock, sports exhaust wasn't even available when car was originally spec. Still sounds great!👍✌
997.2 GTS manual is cream of the crop. Modern classic. Very low production numbers.
Yes, exactly what I have. 2012 model year, manual, GTS. #54 of 325 built for North America in that model year.
@@dougwhaley1169 how did you determine your production number? I’d love to determine the production number of my highly optioned 12’ GTS coupe 6-speed.
Well the 993 which I own being the last of the air-cooled cars is still my pick even though I have a 991.1 GTS, both cars in a manual. I can only hope the later 911s no longer have IMS and bore scoring issues.
Manual transmission - because less and less cars have them.
4:59 Those oversized wheels makes it look like a clown car. To make matters worse, when you are far from home and get an unrepairable flat, you will be stuck staying in a hotel for two days while you are waiting for a replacement tire to arrive because the local tires shop won't have it in stock nor will the nearest Porsche dealer. It's just plain stupid.
Why worry about a flat? I've had one flat in over 45 years of driving.
19 inches is not that big these days. I have 19's on my 475hp S4 and 20 on my 911s.
... so then drive a Corolla. Why are you even watching Porsche videos?
Glad I Have a 997.2 turbo
Well done
I've got the Convertible Badge # 323
This is quite a quiet ride....i was expecting to hear some engine notes....😑
Unfortunately the 997.2 is quieter than the predecessor 997.1 M97-engined cars, and the following 991.1 cars. :(
3:59 Direct Injection is not what I call an improvement when you look at the build-up on the backs of the valves over time.
992 big.,,, get it :) Believe the 997.2 was the last 911 with hydraulic steering.
True
You are absolutely correct. The very next generation felt to me (coming from my modestly powered ‘87), like jumping into a ... what I’d imagine... a Lamborghini or something to be like. They grew so much in size, too much if I’m honest, it also added huge rims/tyres sizes and a ‘gazillion’ buttons. And of course... the prices also became quite unaffordable (for someone like myself). It was another great video and you were the perfect person to review this icon for us. Thank you Zack.
Glad you enjoyed it.
The porsche specialist told me the 996 and 997 are basically the same car, same size, suspension parts etc so if you want a real bargain get a late 996.2 which has a ceramic ims and you get alot of car for the money and turbo headlights!
997.2 is a different engine, that's the one you want.
@@Motormouth... it's not the one I want!
You are correct that the 996 and 997 cars are essentially the same basic chassis but with the benefit of continuous improvement. With the 997 Porsche added some curves and the rounded headlights, echoing the styling of the 993; an interior significantly improved in styling and materials; and introduced the first generation of PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management, not to be confused with Porsche Stability Management or PSM). In addition to the new DFI motors and the option of PDK, 997.2 included further refinements to the suspension, most noticeably with the PASM. 996s are great cars, but the 997.2 is the pinnacle of that chassis.
Too many electrical gizmos that will go wrong in the future like pasm psm etc I like a simple basic 996 without all the stuff that goes wrong and no driver aids to spoil your fun, so for me the 996.2 is the sweet spot and last of the less complex generation
Previous version engine “prone to fail”? That sounds like a high percentage failed. Love the misinformation from a so called expert / enthusiast.
Did not say "high percentage fail", your words. But tell that to anyone that had a blown engine and they don't care, it sucks. The market has decided that the newer engine is more desirable.
@@Motormouth... "Prone" means more likely than not. So greater than 50% is an extremely high percentage for an engine failure rate.
I’ve had a manual 964, 993 and now a 2005 997.1 CS2 which I’ve had for 5 years with annual servicing and 80,000kms. The IMS issue is so over discussed. I have no intention of replacing IMS bearing as I’m confident it won’t fail. Porsche Centres won’t even replace them as they don’t recognise that there is actually a problem. Well maintained 997 especially the S would have a likely failure percentage of less than 1%. So your homework before sprouting so much bs. In Australia manual 997s have increased in value dramatically. There is only 4 manual CS2 for sale in the whole country.
no............
Already overpriced and not selling, so good idea! Raise prices! 🤪
The market is driving the price... not anyone’s idea. Did you watch the video??
I’ve been shopping for 911s for over a year. They aren’t moving off lots, dealers just hold onto them at higher prices than anyone will pay. This isn’t a market at all. A market is buying and selling.
Dreamer you'll never have one
CAD78K is definitely on the high end for a non-S car, particularly one that is not heavily optioned. On the other hand, this one is very low mileage, likely in exceptional condition, and has the manual transmission that most buyers are looking for. Even if it's slightly overpriced today, the market will catch up as low-mileage cars like this become even harder to find. If it weren't for COVID restrictions, I'm guessing at ~USD60K this would have gone to a US buyer pretty quickly.
Got a 2021 C8. No contest.
The PDK is quite desirable. That’s why the 997.1 sucks.
Greed
All Porsches will require major maintenance which requires specialized labor and grossly overpriced parts that will leave you with a big hole in your sports car budget. A $5k bill for a few parts is nothing uncommon. Porsches are by and large are reliable but are not durable as workhorses for daily driving and aggressive driving. The other issue is that the more reliable and durable Porsches are the more recent ones but are also the most over engineered. These drive nothing like the lively air cooled cars or the first generation water cooled that still retained Hydraulic steering, less driver aids in general. These modern Porsches pretty feel like driving a luxury sedan. If you want a Porsche that doesn't lose value but are okay with only taking it out on sunny summer days for ice cream cones then get an air cooled car and pray you never have to deal with insurance policy's "terms and conditions" for "collision damage". If you want to actually drive your Porsche enough to feasibly need to replace the tires at least once then make sure to put aside a substantial budget for its maintenance. My recommendation is to buy a Japanese sports car or get a deal on a mid engine Corvette. Expensive Porsche repair sours the long term ownership experience. Unless you're only after a garage queen.
I’ve had my 997.2 S manual for 5 years and put 15,000 miles on it. Been the most reliable car I’ve ever owned and the longest I’ve kept a car. Spent $40 for a clutch sensor switch and was an easy quick fix. That’s it outside of routine care. It’s so good I added a 2011 turbo S to join it. There’s a reason they are going up.
@@3715890 a well engineered car shouldn't have any problems until it reaches 70k miles. Especially a garage queen treated like a crown jewel. But once the "major maintenance" wave comes due the values plummet. The air cooled cars seem to be the exception on depreciation but the maintenance costs have gone up now that mechanics know how valuable they are. I tell people when it comes to modern Porsches wait until 25k miles be out by 50k miles. Let the first owner take the hit on depreciation let the third owner pick up the major maintenance tab.