Few days ago I bottled my own experiment with this yeast at 20-25 C (68-77F).. 100% Bestmalz Pils and lots of Saaz (40 IBU). Today I tested one of the bottles after just 2 days at room temperature and 5-6 hours in the fridge. There was already nice carbonation and head (which of course didn't last). The only thing that I maybe shouldn't have done is whirlpool good portion of that Saaz at 68 C (154F) for 30-40 minutes, after quick pasteurization at 75 C, of course.... Don't get me wrong, the beer tastes amazing, even if still green, but that Saaz produced a slight lemony flavors at those low temperatures, that in this hot summer is a godsend, but kind of taking a step away from what I'd call a true Czech pils. Perhaps with conditioning in the fridge, things will settle after some time. If not, it's still an amazing result, given the yeast used and the high temperatures of the fermentation.
Thanks for the great video Dudes! Quick lagers is all I’ve been doing lately. The yeast I use is 34/70 and I’ve never been happier with my beer. I start fermenting @62 f and gradually work the temp up to 68 f inside a week. I then leave it at 68 for a few days. Cold crash and fine with gelatin.
I've been wanting to brew a lager for a long time now and I've always hesitated because I don't want to tie up my keg cooler with a lager for 6 plus weeks. You've inspired me to try a warm fermented lager! I think I'll give it a go! Cheers guys.
I recently brewed a beer with the Kveik Blend Pseudo Lager strain from Mainiacal Yeast at 90º F. I used 100% Pilsen. It was surprisingly clean with no off flavors. I highly recommend that yeast.
Last winter I did a 1 gallon extract lager and used 34/70 at 68* F. It turned out well except for over hopping a little to what I was going for. I plan on doing a full 5 gallon batch soon doing the same thing.
I haven't gone below 60 on lagers for 2 years...mostly 34/70 but different strains are on my docket. Outside of quicker ferments not worrying about diacetyl has been a bonus
I love the experimentation going on in homebrewing. I think the best take away from all that experimentation is that there is no universal way of doing most things. The ONLY thing that matters is the beer in the glass. If you love it... You did it right! CHEERS! -Mike
Hello mates! I'm a big fan of 34/70. I live in Krasnodar (Russia). There is hell at summertime in this place 😃 I fermented some wort in my fridge with 34/70. The temperature was approximately 20-25°C in there. I was shocked by results. 34/70 is a kveik in a lager yeasts army)))
More 34/70 experimentation to come. I want to brew a couple lagers while its cool and them revisit them as the weather warms and do some comps. Cheers! -Mike
I did one recently with 1 bar of pressure at 60F. Went from grain to glass in under 2 weeks. Caught some off flavors immediately after packaging. Decided to wait another month before tasting again.
This is crazy. I made a lager, few days ago, but I used two packs of rehydrated w34/70, fermenting now at 52f, will use quick lager method with it, og 1.037. so it's mostly opposite to what you did :D
@@BrewDudes thanks. I’m on Day 3 of a marzen using a sounding valve from China and not going well. Has pressure relief valve instead of regulator. Didn’t know better Needs constant adjustments. Plan B :Pulled off valve and went to Blow off tube in bottle to save beer. Had 4.25G to start and lost a pint with overprrssure relief. Stay tuned.
@@BrewDudes tasty. Biggest advantage was it was partially carbonated’ aroma was brighter’ and way easy to do a closed transfer. I’m sure it fermented early and will try again using American spundit2 valve I just got. Looks like I can tweak my recipe and make 8G batch in 2 Corneys and
You mentioned after primary fermentation you lagered in fridge in the same vessel. Was the fridge temperature at the buttom limit of the yeast or way below the bottom limit of the yeast? I'm doing a lager and currently wrapping primary fermentation. I plan on lagering at 48degF for one month. I used Saflager S-23. The plan here is to lager at the bottom limit of the yeast.
Lagering temperature differences can be overcome with time when it comes to clarity. When it comes to yeast activity warmer temps will allow the yeast to do their thing a little faster. Albeit its all pretty slow at cold temps even for lager yeast. The fridge this lagered at was at 40F. Cheers! -Mike
Brewed a Vienna lager the other day. Been fermenting at 73-75 for the last 4 days. Wondering how long I need to keep it on the warm side? No obvious visual cues of fermentation happening, would you base the decision on gravity readings? Thinking of leaving it in the fridge for about 2w before I clarify and bottle. Would you expect any further drop in gravity during this time?
I've been a huge fan of Saflage at 66-68 degrees for some time. I gave it try after reading Brulosophy blog on it. Ive found it works great. I like the beer right after kegging but find it gets even better after it lagers for a month or so. I've tried L17 Harvest from Imperial and it works the same at room temp. Heard Oslo from Bootleg Biology works clean at 75-80s. Haven't tried that strain yet though. Good stuff guys. Sla'inte! PS- hows the kettle sour going?
Nice video guys! Which lager yeast do you enjoy more W-34/70 or M76? Any experience? I picked up a couple packets of M76 and was wondering how a Pilsner would turn out (cold fermented) with M76 as compared to my usual W-34/70, cheers!
I have noticed that warm fermented lagers is strain dependent. Some are much better than others for sure. Looks like you found one of the good ones. I know L17 Harvest and L13 Global are good at like 68F. I tried L28 Urkel once and it was not my favorite. Dry strains seem to do a decent job. Also, I made a "German Lager" with Oslo Kveik strain once at 98F and got 2nd place out of 30 people in "light lager" category. One thing that I do notice with all of these is that, in my opinion still needs a nice lager period. Some longer than others but it still is quite a bit better after that. Cheers!
I don't see why it wouldn't have helped but the one packet worked well. Yes, he stored the primary fermentor in his fridge. He didn't transfer until he kegged. - John
About yeast packets... I don't worry using a saflager yeast that's been stored in a fridge just sprinkled in, but when I use a yeast from a kit, I'll make a starter first to make sure it's alive. As good as the technology is now, if the yeast is dead it won't do anything.
I brewed a warm lager about two years ago looking for it to be more of a steam/cal common...unfortunately I did not have the same experience. It was a green apple bomb. Not sure what I did differently than everyone else who is loving the warm lagers
@@BrewDudes Thank you for the response! I used WLP940. Originally, I was thinking about using the 840 strain but it says that it "produces a light apple note" and I thought this would be more pronounced at higher temps.
I think Mike was referring to the same issue with wine where it may taste out of sorts when first bottled because of the handling of it from vessel to bottle (bottle shock). I think he felt he may have been getting some off flavors from the first few days of the beer being in the keg. - John
Lager yeasts are Saccharomyces, but they are S. pastorianus. Thats at least the classical taxonomy. I think things will begin to change as more and more genetic profiling of these strains are brought to light. Cheers! -Mike
Guys, another enlightening and educational video, thanks. I did something similar, albeit from a lager kit. Warm spell in the UK, went made for 3 days, finished at 1008, blah, blah etc. I put it in a poly keg and let it sit in a cooler spot for 4 weeks. Sadly it came out very bland tasting but clear as a bell. So, my question, how come there was loads of pressure in the keg but it never carbonated the lager? Thanks.
Carbonation is a function of pressure and temperature. If its not cold it won't carbonate unless there is tremendous pressure. What was your temperature of this "cooler spot" and what was the pressure? -Mike
Hi Mike, Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated. When I say cooler, 15-18 deg c and pressure relief was set to 1 bar, but I don't think it vented so it must have been somewhere close. That said, over the course of a few weeks when it did get cooler, it started to carbonate, but it took time. Having read your reply, it all makes more sense now, basically, i think it was a bit too warm, cheers.
What about fermenting under pressure in my Unitank? From what I understand you can ferment at room temperature if fermenting under pressure. How does this comparison between the yeast you used not under pressure and normal yeast that can’t perform in warmer temperature for lagers unless under pressure? Would you suggest the yeast you used on top of fermenting under pressure?
The biggest lies in home brewing center around lager. Choose the right yeast, 34/70 works great for a wide range, and ferment it to fg. Pressure fermentation works great if you're fermenting above 72c. lagering is perfectly ok but even pros will often just cold crash and fine/filter after fg is reached. Do what you like the taste of but don't let old fogies gatekeep what you can brew.
You you pegging us as old fogies? I think we certainly lean give everything a try and see what you like. We present just different things we've tried and relate the experience. Offering simple points of view from these two dudes. Cheers! -Mike
"what's you're overall take on fermenting fermenting warm lagers" not sure about the answer. how about telling me, from a one to 10, how does this beer compare to a Brooklyn , Prima or Urquell
Looks 👌! I accidentally pitched a “lager” strain to a pale ale “intended” wort once and it turned out great... I keep it in rotation Citra Happens was the name lol Cheers
Interesting topic. Thank you! Speaking of sending you my beers... Please email me your info, I'd love to have you try something of mine for a beer swap or beer review. Cheers!
There is an entire thread on homebrewtalk.com devoted to warm fermented lagers. Quite a lot of brewers have reported great sucess. www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/ I'm definitely thinking of trying it the next time I want to brew a lager.
Ach mein Gott!!!! For all that is sacred in beer, please don’t say Dunkel like you would “Dunkin Donuts”. The U is just like the oo in “good” or “book”. A piece of my soul dies every time I hear this beautiful word butchered.
Few days ago I bottled my own experiment with this yeast at 20-25 C (68-77F).. 100% Bestmalz Pils and lots of Saaz (40 IBU). Today I tested one of the bottles after just 2 days at room temperature and 5-6 hours in the fridge. There was already nice carbonation and head (which of course didn't last). The only thing that I maybe shouldn't have done is whirlpool good portion of that Saaz at 68 C (154F) for 30-40 minutes, after quick pasteurization at 75 C, of course.... Don't get me wrong, the beer tastes amazing, even if still green, but that Saaz produced a slight lemony flavors at those low temperatures, that in this hot summer is a godsend, but kind of taking a step away from what I'd call a true Czech pils. Perhaps with conditioning in the fridge, things will settle after some time. If not, it's still an amazing result, given the yeast used and the high temperatures of the fermentation.
Thanks for the great video Dudes! Quick lagers is all I’ve been doing lately. The yeast I use is 34/70 and I’ve never been happier with my beer. I start fermenting @62 f and gradually work the temp up to 68 f inside a week. I then leave it at 68 for a few days. Cold crash and fine with gelatin.
Sweet I have a "red Lager" coming soon with a slightly cooler ferment than the beer in this video. Stay tuned! Cheers. -Mike
Brilliant video.
Thanks!
I've been wanting to brew a lager for a long time now and I've always hesitated because I don't want to tie up my keg cooler with a lager for 6 plus weeks. You've inspired me to try a warm fermented lager! I think I'll give it a go! Cheers guys.
Go for it! - John
I recently brewed a beer with the Kveik Blend Pseudo Lager strain from Mainiacal Yeast at 90º F. I used 100% Pilsen. It was surprisingly clean with no off flavors. I highly recommend that yeast.
Nice - thanks for the info. - John
Love this!
Thanks! - John
Last winter I did a 1 gallon extract lager and used 34/70 at 68* F. It turned out well except for over hopping a little to what I was going for. I plan on doing a full 5 gallon batch soon doing the same thing.
Go for it!
whatta brilliant lager.......cheers guys
Thanks!
DO IT!!!!! I did my first warm lager a few weeks ago. One of the best I've ever made
Exactly - just go for it. - John
I haven't gone below 60 on lagers for 2 years...mostly 34/70 but different strains are on my docket. Outside of quicker ferments not worrying about diacetyl has been a bonus
Nice - thanks, Mark! - John
yeah i agree people should do what they want, in my case i still like cold ferments at 50-52 for lagers
I love the experimentation going on in homebrewing. I think the best take away from all that experimentation is that there is no universal way of doing most things. The ONLY thing that matters is the beer in the glass. If you love it... You did it right! CHEERS! -Mike
Hello mates! I'm a big fan of 34/70. I live in Krasnodar (Russia). There is hell at summertime in this place 😃 I fermented some wort in my fridge with 34/70. The temperature was approximately 20-25°C in there. I was shocked by results. 34/70 is a kveik in a lager yeasts army)))
More 34/70 experimentation to come. I want to brew a couple lagers while its cool and them revisit them as the weather warms and do some comps. Cheers! -Mike
I did one recently with 1 bar of pressure at 60F. Went from grain to glass in under 2 weeks. Caught some off flavors immediately after packaging. Decided to wait another month before tasting again.
Was it better after aging? Cheers! -Mike
You know I had a taste last night and it’s tasting a lot better. Guess it’s only been about a month from brewing.
Great video! Cheers🍻
Thanks Much! -Mike
This is crazy. I made a lager, few days ago, but I used two packs of rehydrated w34/70, fermenting now at 52f, will use quick lager method with it, og 1.037. so it's mostly opposite to what you did :D
Nice - hope it comes out great! - John
So would it would iLager i fermented at 72 Deg for 3 days in Corney at room temp and then store in kegerator at 40 Deg for a month?.
Yes if you hit your final gravity in those 3 days. I wouldn't start lagering until you hit your final gravity. - John
Any tips for pressure fermenting in Corney keg with spunding valve other than doing 4G batch to avoid Krause no blowing over ???
Hi T Man - we'll do some research into the spunding valve/fermenting in a keg and make a video. - John
@@BrewDudes thanks. I’m on Day 3 of a marzen using a sounding valve from China and not going well. Has pressure relief valve instead of regulator. Didn’t know better Needs constant adjustments. Plan B :Pulled off valve and went to Blow off tube in bottle to save beer. Had 4.25G to start and lost a pint with overprrssure relief. Stay tuned.
@@tman9338 How did it turn out? (he asks cautiously) - John
@@BrewDudes tasty. Biggest advantage was it was partially carbonated’ aroma was brighter’ and way easy to do a closed transfer. I’m sure it fermented early and will try again using American spundit2 valve I just got. Looks like I can tweak my recipe and make 8G batch in 2 Corneys and
Go grain to glass in a way shorter time.
You mentioned after primary fermentation you lagered in fridge in the same vessel.
Was the fridge temperature at the buttom limit of the yeast or way below the bottom limit of the yeast?
I'm doing a lager and currently wrapping primary fermentation. I plan on lagering at 48degF for one month. I used Saflager S-23. The plan here is to lager at the bottom limit of the yeast.
Lagering temperature differences can be overcome with time when it comes to clarity. When it comes to yeast activity warmer temps will allow the yeast to do their thing a little faster. Albeit its all pretty slow at cold temps even for lager yeast. The fridge this lagered at was at 40F. Cheers! -Mike
Brewed a Vienna lager the other day. Been fermenting at 73-75 for the last 4 days. Wondering how long I need to keep it on the warm side? No obvious visual cues of fermentation happening, would you base the decision on gravity readings? Thinking of leaving it in the fridge for about 2w before I clarify and bottle. Would you expect any further drop in gravity during this time?
I would base it on taste AND gravity readings. Cheers! -Mike
I've been a huge fan of Saflage at 66-68 degrees for some time. I gave it try after reading Brulosophy blog on it. Ive found it works great. I like the beer right after kegging but find it gets even better after it lagers for a month or so. I've tried L17 Harvest from Imperial and it works the same at room temp. Heard Oslo from Bootleg Biology works clean at 75-80s. Haven't tried that strain yet though. Good stuff guys. Sla'inte!
PS- hows the kettle sour going?
Hi Dennis - cool, we'll have to give those other strains a try. Kettle sour is ready. Just need to bottle it and send it your way. Email us. - John
Nice video guys! Which lager yeast do you enjoy more W-34/70 or M76? Any experience? I picked up a couple packets of M76 and was wondering how a Pilsner would turn out (cold fermented) with M76 as compared to my usual W-34/70, cheers!
We haven't used M76 before but using a couple of packets for a typical lager fermentation is a great place to start. - John
I have noticed that warm fermented lagers is strain dependent. Some are much better than others for sure. Looks like you found one of the good ones. I know L17 Harvest and L13 Global are good at like 68F. I tried L28 Urkel once and it was not my favorite. Dry strains seem to do a decent job. Also, I made a "German Lager" with Oslo Kveik strain once at 98F and got 2nd place out of 30 people in "light lager" category. One thing that I do notice with all of these is that, in my opinion still needs a nice lager period. Some longer than others but it still is quite a bit better after that. Cheers!
I think you're right. If I tried it, I would definitely use a strain that works at that temperature. - John
Keeping it real per usual
Yes - we are keeping it real because we are keeping it real. - John
Would 2 dry packets have helped in anyway? Also, you stored cold on the yeast cake in your primary fermenter?
I don't see why it wouldn't have helped but the one packet worked well. Yes, he stored the primary fermentor in his fridge. He didn't transfer until he kegged. - John
@@BrewDudes what was fridge temp. ??? Only have room in kegerator and want to try in Corney
You mentioned you were going to do a dunkel at ale temp. How did that turn out?
Haven't gotten to that yet, but its certainly warm out now to try! Cheers! -Mike
When I use liquid yeast I always make a starter, but I still get my best attenuation when I use dry yeast and just sprinkle it on.
Interesting for sure. - John
Don't worry about starters with your liquid yeast.
About yeast packets... I don't worry using a saflager yeast that's been stored in a fridge just sprinkled in, but when I use a yeast from a kit, I'll make a starter first to make sure it's alive. As good as the technology is now, if the yeast is dead it won't do anything.
True!
I brewed a warm lager about two years ago looking for it to be more of a steam/cal common...unfortunately I did not have the same experience. It was a green apple bomb. Not sure what I did differently than everyone else who is loving the warm lagers
What strain did you use? - John
@@BrewDudes Thank you for the response! I used WLP940. Originally, I was thinking about using the 840 strain but it says that it "produces a light apple note" and I thought this would be more pronounced at higher temps.
How much yeast did you pitch?
Nevermind - I just needed to keep watching
Glad we answered your question, though. - John
What do you mean by 'keg shock'?
I think Mike was referring to the same issue with wine where it may taste out of sorts when first bottled because of the handling of it from vessel to bottle (bottle shock). I think he felt he may have been getting some off flavors from the first few days of the beer being in the keg. - John
@@BrewDudes I'm pretty sure that's not a thing.
you can also try the white labs Kölsch yeast!
Cool - thanks! - John
In the package of the strain says tempetures till 22-25C, crazy!
Quite - but it works! - John
Wait a minute: aren't lager yeasts also Saccharomyces cerevisiae like ale yeasts? That's like common knowledge, isn't it?
Lager yeasts are Saccharomyces, but they are S. pastorianus. Thats at least the classical taxonomy. I think things will begin to change as more and more genetic profiling of these strains are brought to light. Cheers! -Mike
Literally just brewed a helles today w 34/70, at about 66 AND just sprinkled that shit in.
Nice!! - John
Guys, another enlightening and educational video, thanks. I did something similar, albeit from a lager kit. Warm spell in the UK, went made for 3 days, finished at 1008, blah, blah etc. I put it in a poly keg and let it sit in a cooler spot for 4 weeks. Sadly it came out very bland tasting but clear as a bell. So, my question, how come there was loads of pressure in the keg but it never carbonated the lager? Thanks.
Carbonation is a function of pressure and temperature. If its not cold it won't carbonate unless there is tremendous pressure. What was your temperature of this "cooler spot" and what was the pressure? -Mike
Hi Mike, Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated. When I say cooler, 15-18 deg c and pressure relief was set to 1 bar, but I don't think it vented so it must have been somewhere close. That said, over the course of a few weeks when it did get cooler, it started to carbonate, but it took time. Having read your reply, it all makes more sense now, basically, i think it was a bit too warm, cheers.
I done a lager once , once . Waiting .waiting .waiting . Same yeast 2 months . I stick to beer now .
Stick to it!
awesome,what is the backstory on you two,workmates,live next door to each other .. be interesting to know Cheers
Friends since High School... in a galaxy far far away. Cheers! -Mike
What about fermenting under pressure in my Unitank? From what I understand you can ferment at room temperature if fermenting under pressure. How does this comparison between the yeast you used not under pressure and normal yeast that can’t perform in warmer temperature for lagers unless under pressure? Would you suggest the yeast you used on top of fermenting under pressure?
I've never fermented under pressure so I don't have an answer to that. Its something I'll think about and maybe try soon. Cheers! -Mike
The biggest lies in home brewing center around lager. Choose the right yeast, 34/70 works great for a wide range, and ferment it to fg. Pressure fermentation works great if you're fermenting above 72c. lagering is perfectly ok but even pros will often just cold crash and fine/filter after fg is reached. Do what you like the taste of but don't let old fogies gatekeep what you can brew.
You you pegging us as old fogies? I think we certainly lean give everything a try and see what you like. We present just different things we've tried and relate the experience. Offering simple points of view from these two dudes. Cheers! -Mike
"what's you're overall take on fermenting fermenting warm lagers" not sure about the answer. how about telling me, from a one to 10, how does this beer compare to a Brooklyn , Prima or Urquell
Not as crisp as I sort of expect/want . But this is an n=1. I don't want to cast out the technique until I try again. But for your scale 7.
Looks 👌! I accidentally pitched a “lager” strain to a pale ale “intended” wort once and it turned out great... I keep it in rotation
Citra Happens was the name lol Cheers
Citra does happen - Cheers! - John
It's Like brewing a kölsh style D:
Right on!
Interesting topic. Thank you! Speaking of sending you my beers... Please email me your info, I'd love to have you try something of mine for a beer swap or beer review. Cheers!
Hi Wrecked - please email us via dudes at brew-dudes.com and we'll let you know how to ship to us. - John
@@BrewDudes done thanks
There is an entire thread on homebrewtalk.com devoted to warm fermented lagers. Quite a lot of brewers have reported great sucess. www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/ I'm definitely thinking of trying it the next time I want to brew a lager.
Yes! I am still experimenting but I have had some good luck with it. Thanks for posting the thread for everyone. Cheers! -Mike
Ach mein Gott!!!! For all that is sacred in beer, please don’t say Dunkel like you would “Dunkin Donuts”. The U is just like the oo in “good” or “book”. A piece of my soul dies every time I hear this beautiful word butchered.
We will pray for you soul to be repaired soon. Thanks for the pronunciation tip. - John