Kveik Yeast vs. US-05 - Pale Ale Showdown - Brew Dudes
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2020
- We do a taste comparison of a simple Pale Ale between Kveik yeast and standard American Ale yeast US-05.
John brewed a very simple beer for a simple yet interesting hopped pale ale. He fermented each beer with the two different yeasts at relatively the same temperature. That is to say John didn't go to any extreme lengths to ferment the Kveik hot nor did he ferment the US-05 beer exceptionally cool.
We compare the flavor and aroma profile of these beers and discuss new variables and new way to play with and learn about Kveik!
Tell us about your Kveik yeasts experiences in the comments section!
CHEERS!
Check out our blog:
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#kveik #US-05 #Showdown
I’ve brewed a couple of times with the Lallemand Voss strain, it is amazing. Started to ferment vigorously within 4 hours (in Australia, with temp control @30). Have done this experiment with it and US05 before and both were great. Biggest difference was the voss had dropped clear and was drinkable in 5 days, us05 was the same but it took 2.5 weeks to clear out. Great work guys, keep it up
Thanks for the comment! Cheers! -Mike
Back with US05! I just made an IPA with it and it turned out actually amazingly. I was pretty surprised. Love these videos gents. Thanks for putting in the effort during lockdown. There’s literally nobody else making these kind of brewing “experiment” videos. Cheers
Hey man! Thanks for watching. We're doing our best during these covid days to keep things coming! Its getting better. Stay safe and Brew On! -Mike
Thank you guys! I love your videos. Keep safe 🍻
Cheers! -Mike
Was wondering about these Kveik yeasts. Sounds like US05 for the win here ...thanks for the video my fellow Mass. Brewers!
Thanks - Good to see more MA brewers in the comments. We'll have more Kveik videos this year. - John
I've switched to Kveik Voss from US-05 and have been pitching at about 40C. It ferments out in under 2 days and has no off flavours at all. Adding a healthy dry hopping for 2 days means I'm drinking the beer 6-7 days after brewing.
Awesome - thank you for your input! - John
I'm doing a 1.074 OG Cream Ale with Omega Hot Head Kveik yeasties and they are beasties! I pitched at 74 degrees yesterday and today it's blowing out of my carboys through my blow off tubes. I think I will be able to keg in 3 days. This stuff ROCKS!! Perfect timing for this vid! Thanks Dudes!
Cream ale! Might have to try that too! Cheers! -Mike
I’ve never used the strain you guys used but I have used a few different kveik strains. Not all Kveik are the same. If I was gonna compare a beer against US-05 and wanted it to be similar, I’d use Bootleg Biology Oslo since in my opinion it’s most similar. It’s kinda like a really fast and quick fermenting US-05, otherwise for certain stains it’s like comparing US-05 to Conan. With my Kveik beers, I’ve usually just chilled to about 90-95, pitched and let it free fall to whatever temperature it ferments at. There’s lots of cool strains though. Glad you guys are trying it out. Recently been trying the Lallemand Voss Kveik as well which they just started selling in the US
More to come hopefully! Thanks for sharing you're experience! Cheers! -Mike
I've got a Pilsner going right now with Oslo
oslo is far cleaner than us-05 it is almost as clean as pilsner yeast
Ferment the kviek hot if you want more fruity esters. If you ferment cool (75 is cool for kviek) it ferments pretty clean. 90 degrees, just go for it. Also, a teaspoon or 2 is plenty for 5 gallons. I brewed 60 gallons of cream ale with 2 packs of omega voss. 75 degrees fermented cleanly with a massive underpitch. It is very versatile.
Good ideas. This was our first pass. Hoepfully more to come. Cheers! -Mike
Jonobos So can 1 dry pack (11g) be used for a 10gal hazy (8% ABV) ??? Also do u know if you can wash or top crop from dry Kviek yeast??
Love this comparison !!! Brewed my 1st 20 gal Hazy IPA in 4 carboys with 1) 05 2) 04 3) Bavarian 4) local brewery double IPA Crowler - took 4 days to start culture. Too lazy to make a small batch and then get bummed if one turns out great. Got a “caveman setup” and so far so good
Hope they all turn out great. - JOhn
Thanks guys, I’m inspired to try find and use the Kviek yeast now. I love the colour and haziness you got there. As a side note, have you seen Home Brew For Life on UA-cam? They’ve just made a Dill Pickle Gose! You gotta see that! 🍻
Thanks for the views. I'll go check out that dill pickle gose vid. Thanks. Cheers! -Mike
Cool idea and great video my friends.
Thanks and Cheers! - John
I'm glad you said your first 24 hours wasn't that crazy fermentation wise. Im at 24 hours with my first Kveik and the airlock is cruising but there isn't a thick krausen layer. Hopefully day 2 will be more vigorous.
I don't remember being blown away by visuals throughout the fermentation process. Certainly raising the temperature may help activity. - John
I did the same test and I did end up with dryer notes and citrus Fruity kind of flavor on premium Kaviek yeast .I was able to do at 68°. Fermentation 4 days. Very drinkable beer was surprised will save me time in secondary.I imagine when I cold crash it will have clarity as same as the chico strain.Cheers
Nice similarities. Thanks for the comments! Cheers! -Mike
I have tried these old farmhouse beers and to be honest they are just ok. Keep in mind I do use kveik yeast often and enjoy it in the right application but some of these kveik farmhouse beers are historic for a reason. That being said I think there is a great application to use these strains for modern styles. I have had lower pH beers from most kveik strains as well.
Love this comment. I've been thinking this too. Its not like Kveik was invented yesterday either right? Cheers! -Mike
Great info dudes, still need to try this yeast out, cheers
Yeah we are just dipping our toes in Kveik here but maybe more to come in the future! Cheers! -Mike
Out of the kveiks I have I find that hothead from Omega is a great starter for the style. Doing a 35-45 IBU pale ale that finishes in 3 days fermenting at 95 always generates some great results
I've been doing split batch experiments with Kveik and US-05. So far the closest kveik strain i've come across to US-05 is Oslo. Bottling a second such comparison this weekend but was really surprised how close they were on an American Wheat Ale. Main advantage with the Kveik is that new brewers could get away without temp control. If you keg and possibly also filter, you can turn a beer around in under a week with Kveik.
Thanks for the comment! Appreciate the info.
Fair question.
Thanks for the video. Like you guys, I'm not completely gaga over Kveik. I do like the Voss strain but given the choice I'd rather have a clean American strain like Chico/1056 or M44 for my hoppy Pales. I also get a wild Kveik note (hard to describe in words), almost phenolic but not quite. I've fermented at 33 and 28 C both with good success. I've also had the same experience with very hazy beers with hop heavy styles. One upside as well for Voss Kveik is that is sticks like glue to bottles, so you get a full pour without sediment.
Great thoughts, thanks. We are still experimenting. We are mostly curious about how well Kveik does all these crazy things its reported to do. So we will keep experimenting. Cheers! -Mike
I have watched this video 2-3 times in the last year. In that time I brewed the same beer using these yeasts and I also noticed the kveik yeast was more tart, like white grape sourness, in the beer. Same results as y’all! I think it’ll do better as a pressure fermented yeast or as a NEIPA yeast when you want those esters
Right on - thanks for watching and we're glad our experience matched yours. - John
It's interesting that y'all detected some phenol character; the kveik strains I'd read about are all phenol negative, but, sure enough, White Labs mentions phenols in their white paper. Also, the thinner body on the kveik version might be because of the lower pH kveik tends to produce.
I love seeing these sorts of comparisons, thanks!
Thanks!
I can't wait to try out my voss. The only temp control I have is... I can add a heating pad and a blanket around it. Every time I say this I find something else to buy... but here we go... I really don't want any more brewing gear. I want to keep it low tech and small batch. ***knocks on wood fast***
Let us know how it works out! Cheers! -Mike
I use dry kveik from Lallemand and Mangrove Jacks for my Pale ales. Both great but crank temp to 35°C.
Nice. I like to hear people that have experience trying things more than one way. Cheers! -Mike
Interesting how much cleaner the 05 looked compared to the Kviek. I've heard several people say exactly what you alluded to on the body and unconventional phenol on the Kviek. Great comparison.
Thanks for the comment and watching. Cheers! -Mike
Underpitch and ferment at 35c+ and it's GREAT, grain to glass in less than 2 weeks, amazing for warmer weather :)
Thank you for the info! - John
Picked up a pack for fun, and brewed a blondish pale ish ale on the 4th. we shall see how it does! Love the weeklies!
Let us know how it comes out! Cheers! -Mike
I've been using WHC Irish Liquid Yeist, they do some incredible Kelvics, Valkryie needs no bittering hops and Born Kelvic smells like tangerines, there bubbelgum Kelvic smells like toffee too. Highly recommend!
Thanks Joe G! - John
Im currently cold crashing an IPA I made last weekend with Imperial's A44 Kveiking yeast. I kept a fermwrap around the fermenter and hooked it up to a temp controller to keep it at 97F. The yeast ate the beer down to 1.008 in less than 48 hours! Really hoping to taste tropical fruity esters that will compliment the loads of hops Ive added during the boil and that I'll also put in the keg.
Awesome. We will be doing more with Kveik hopefully. Cheers! -Mike
One thing you have to factor in with kveik (as you tasted) is that it will produce a more acidic beer compared to most other strains. If you factor in the extra drop and adjust accordingly then you can remove the tartness from the equation and this naturally affects malt, hop and bitterness perception. Mash at a higher pH and buffer it towards the end of the boil. Adjusting your mash profile and grain bill - as you mentioned - will also help with their relative lack of mouthfeel. They're a very useful group of yeasts for those who lack fermentation control or hot climates where water is valuable/drought restricted and it's a struggle to get wort down to pitch temp. The flaws can be accounted for during the brewing process.
Cool info. Thanks much and Cheers! -Mike
I'm all for the Kveik. For a drinker around the house, i'll never use anything else. Cheers.
Whats your favorite style for a drinker around the house with Kveik? Cheers! -Mike
Great stuff guys! Love the experiment. Ive used Oslo from Bootleg Biology for my blondes and cream ale. Fermenting at 90 and its done in 3-4 days
Grain to glass in less than a week. Dont notice off flavors or issues. Pretty clean yeast.
PS - ive created my own channel under Woodshed Brewing Co. Sláinte! Dennis Pynn
Oh - hey Dennis - that's great on both fronts. We'll subscribe to your channel. - John
@@BrewDudes If you're ever interested in trying Oslo out, let me know and I ll send you a some that I have built up. Have a great weekend!!
Had my kviek fling. Im over it. Highly recommend for homebrewers without temp control. Go nuts.
Temp control is so easy and cheap to set up these days there's no excuse for not having it in place. And I find it easier to manage fermentation at sensible temperatures rather than the very high temps recommended for kveik. How they managed to maintain such high temps historically in Norway must be associated with another very long yarn.
Noted - appreciate the comment and the sentiment. - John
From that Chip Walton article, it sounds like they do no chilling and a really long transfer from kettle to fermentor. Sounds like a lot of work. - John
Got a suggestion for malt testing videos, if you do them: try out Chevallier malt. It's an 1800s variety that has recently been cultivated again. In my opinion it's like floor-malted Maris Otter on steroids, really great stuff.
We would like to do some malt testing in the future. I have heard of this malt and I'd like to try it. -Mike
Those are actually only two yeasty besties that I use. US05 makes me a cleaner drinkable pale ale, kveik makes good juicy ipa. I use kveik in pressure fermenter, with heat belt and us05 in a stainless bucket inside fermentation fridge.
Nice! Glad we put these side by side then. Cheers! -Mike
I just did a low IBU split batch pilsner centennial smash. One half fermented with dry Lutra at 77degrees and the other, US05 at 67degrees. At nine days from pitch the US05 is clean and citrusy but the Lutra has an unpleasant over-ripe fruit and dirt taste and smell, without lemon on the nose like the US05 batch has. My previous brew with Lutra had the same taste/smell. I wanted to like Lutra but won't be using it again.
warmer and kveik shines with beyond low pitch, loves to be stressed
Cool stuff, thanks! Cheers! -Mike
Good old US 05. My favorite strain for building and testing new recipes. I have moved away from Kveik because I found it would dullen the taste of the beer. Reminds me of the flavors you wold get if you used really hard water.Cheers!
Thats an intersting take. We will have more testing to see ourselves if we like it. -Mike
It is an interesting comment. For me, US05 is just too slow. Don't have the patience for it. I believe that for hoppy American style beer it is a great strain. My go-to strain is Mangrove Jack M31...a Belgian style yeast with a very dry finish. Having said that I just brewed my first Tripel with Voss....I am impressed. Very clean profile even with a finishing alcohol of 12.4%. Temperature between 22 an 26 deg Celsius.
@@wernervos935 Interesting! I will have to try Mangrove Jack M21. Cheers
I have used Framgarden, Voss and Hornindal in hoppy beers and I did
not love any of them. It’s been mid 80s to mid 90s here in NW Ohio for several weeks now so maybe if I lacked temp control I would think differently but I have a chest freezer fermentation chamber and I prefer other yeast.
Good to know. I have purchases other Kveik yeast strains. We'll see how they are. - John
Fun fact from the internet:
Norway
Oslo
1 beer in neighbourhood pub (500ml or 1pt.)
The price of 1 beer in neighbourhood pub (500ml or 1pt.) in Oslo is $9 (kr 85)
Thanks! Another good reason to homebrew. - John
www.garshol.priv.no/download/farmhouse/kveik.html
Reference this for max growth temperature for the yeasts (tested by NCYC yeast lab). Just to ensure that you will not kill it. You'll find it's generally 40-42c. That doesn't mean optimum temperature. I do 30c in the winter. 33c for strains closer to 30 (on that list) in the summer. Then 35c for strains that like it 35c+ in the summer (just about the highest my fermenter will heat to)
Welcome to the Kveik train! You're right that the hype train has really died down. Lars released a new book and it was an excellent read. It's not about Kveik, but about the lost & dying culture of farmhouse brewing as a whole. Very very insightful.
Thanks for all that cool info. I've been looking to check Lars' book out too. Cheers! -Mike
8:11 for tasting
Thanks WitlessDishTowell.
I think the most important thing we can do with Kveik is to agree on a pronunciation for it. I vote "Bob".
Just pronounce it in Norwegian and you are fine ;D
Agreed. I've always heard it pronounced like saying quake. I don't know where that falls in John's lexicon. Cheers! -Mike
I haven't bothered with Kveik yeast, because the only thing it seems to deliver is SPEED and perhaps, a bit more freedom if brewers who are starting out and they cannot yet control fermentation temps...just not beneficial enough for me to abandon more traditional methods since I have invested in a fermentation chamber and all that. If you can't do that, I'd look into this yeast. Kveik does have the benefit of longevity - it seems much harder to save/cultivate non-Kveik strains than traditional strains. (It may help that I tend to mostly use dry yeasts...your mileage may vary.) Good info! Cheers!
Yep, fair points. We wanted to give it a try to see what it was all about. - John
I ferment my ipa and neipa @ 38-40 celsius. Voss kveik. Dry hop after two days. CC when fg is below recipe.
Great - hope it turned out well. - John
Hi guys, I am from Brazil, I am wondering if you can share the Kveik yeast code please?
It was this one: www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp518-opshaug-kveik-ale-yeast
I have found if you add some dextrose Voss finishes clearer.
Interesting - I have a packet of Voss, may use some dextrose. - John
The fact that you guys are super close by and had trouble getting certain things that were local bugs me. I work at South Shore Homebrew Emporium (same chain as MHBE in Cambridge) and we carry a TON of local stuff (including hops from a farm out west when we can get some from the harvest). Any point in time you're having trouble looking for something you might as well make the trip down and/or give a call and if we don't have it, my boss Jim can probably get it
Thank Peter - Mike works in Cambridge and goes to the MHBE all the time. Now that Beer Wine Hobby has moved, it's a haul for me. I may take you up on your offer when I can't find something. - John
Also if you ferment Kviek at 85 degrees versus you know as high as you can go you got a lot less cleaner fermentation.. I've literally gotten as much kviek strains as I possibly could and I've gotten some multiple strain forms straight from Norway...
Voss is incredibly clean hornidal is amazing for ipas..
I've also got my bottle conditioning down to 5 days and you don't really have that fresh new beer taste it's more complete and complex in The Keg I will let it sit for 3 days
Nice - thanks for the info! - John
Would like to see the difference in a higher fermentation temperature with the kevik compared to the cooler temperature.
YES!!! So would I. We will get there. Cheers! -Mike
When you pitch at 90 degrees and then ferment at 95 it gets nuts.
How would a scottish ale be? As a malt foward beer style it may be ideal.
Depends on the strain really. But it could be interesting! Thanks for watching. Cheers! -Mike
Yeah except you can produce the kviek beer in 3 to 4 days... hands down better.. plenty you can do to make it less hazy also.. makes
05 obsolete imo.. do voss or oslo for the cleanest ferments.
Also I've gotten a starter to 105 degrees and it was fine, this stuff is beast mode.
Try omegas lineup of kviek.. they have a new one now lutra.
Great - I have some more Kveik yeast brews coming up. - John
I’ll stick to Bry-97 dry West Coast yeast. I tried Kviek yeast, it stuck on me.
Thanks!
thanks guys i am all not that big of a fan of Kveik i like 34/70 better
Are you a warm 34/70 ferment type of person? I had experimented a little with that and need to give it another try. Cheers! -Mike
FYI those hops are pronounced rah-kaow
Thanks
What about Kevin fermenting lagers.
Something to try! Its on the list! Cheers! -Mike
It was hard to understand which beer he was referencing. He would say "here" or "this one" rather than saying clearly which one he was referencing
Sorry. Sometimes we get wrapped up into our own conversation with each other. We will strive to do better. Cheers! -Mike
The hazy one is kveik yeast, the more clear one is US-05.
I never liked US-05 for hoppy beers. It always brings a sharp bitterness out that I don't care for. If that's what you like In your hoppy beer, it's great. I prefer the fruity hoppy beers with low bitterness. In that line of taste preference, cheap US-04 works better.
Its funny to note that right? Because where US05 gets its fame from is all those West Coast breweries making sharp bittering IPA. You are likely on to something there. Cheers! -Mike
couldnt you just have made 1 5 gallon batch and split the two in two separate fermenters?
Could have - I don't have two 3 gallon fermentors. - John
i believe its a 0 (zero), not O 5
0K. Cheers! -Mike
These guys are homo sapiens. Both of them.
Anthropology!
You guys would be cool to smoke weed with! You guys could probably grow great weed if you tryed
HA! Maybe in another time and place man! Thanks for watching the vids and taking the time to say hi. Much appreciated. Cheers! -Mike
Local beer??? why don't get local grains, and then malt yourself... (wink, wink)
Oof! Just more to do. So many options! Cheers! -Mike
Bu içtiğiniz bulaşık suyunu bira sanıyorsunuz.
Neden olmasın? Bizim için çalışıyor. Cheers! -Mike "why not, works for us"
Creepy choir music in middle of video?
Funny! I just re-watched and listened to it myself. Your actually hearing some traffic on the highway that's a mile to a mile and a half away. That high pitched whine was either some semis or sounds a little bit like a couple bikes ripping it up out there. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes Cheers
Siz kesinlikle daha önce bira içmemişsiniz.
lütfen beni açıklayın ve eğitin. Cheers! -Mike. "please explain and educate me"
You just stick with your us05, and let us real brewers use kveik
Hmm. Last time I checked, I thought I was real. - John
STOP TALKING OVER EACHOTHER!!!!!!! Makes this hard to watch.
Sometimes its just heat of the moment. Cheers! -Mike
I'm really struggling to understand the context of this channel. You're giving subjective vs? You're pronouncing kveik funny lol... I am subscribed but you're not really showing how to brew, you're just describing how you feel subjectively about two or three things... I don't get it. I subscribe, I'm a home brewer, I'm sincerely not trying to provide hate on the internet, there's way too much of that going around, I'm trying to understand so I can enjoy your videos. Any help?
It's helping you discern a difference between various test subjects so you don't have to perform the same experiments at home. They give you this yeast tastes xxx compared to this other yeast. SO you then go, okay, I love the flavor of XXX so I'll not even try yeast 2 and go straight to yeast 1. This isn't a homebrew recipe channel, it's a channel about all areas of homebrewing.
For the more advanced brewers this is so much more helpful than a how to brew video. Btw a video like that can only be uploaded once or twice because brewing is always the same trick. If you are struggling to understand this video or the brewing process, go find other channels or even better: books that help. Once you understand the science of brewing, the art of taste and balances are discussed in this channel and will save you experimental brews. Subscription to this channel will pay off!
"I'm really struggling to understand the context of this channel. "
Dude, this a video about US-05 vs Kveik Yeast taste comparison . It's not a video about how to brew... Did you really watched the video?
We do some brewing related videos. But how many times would you watch me batch sparge a beer and get something out of it, right? So we occasionally will show a technique of ours, or a piece of equipment we find cool. But most of the time we like to relate our experiences with ingredients and process. Then share that and have discussion with other brewers in the comments. We are just two dudes having fun and relating our experiences openly so that others have another data point. You should tune into some of our hop videos. Often we taste things that aren't on a market focused label for the hops we play with. I think that's pretty useful, at least it has been for us. Thanks for subbing and watching. Hope we can be a part of your regular YT homebrew video rotation even if we aren't brewing every single video. Cheers! -Mike
And thanks to the others that have replied here helping define our "style" and giving us such great support! You guys are what keep us going! I'll drink my next homebrew in your honor! Cheers! -Mike