Notice how the people complaining the loudest about this is the traditional banks. Because the reality is BNPL cuts in to the sub sub sub prime credit card market. K'know those trash card with 35% interest and $100 annual fees. This is the type of consumer BNPL taps into. They don't allow people to have huge limits straight away but the cost of financing is far more reasonable. I've seen it used pretty responsibly too. Workers buying quality workboots that will last them rather than buying the cheapest they could afford with a single paycheck.
The entire credit system has ruined our economy. Ppl complain that we are printing too much money, In my opinion, that's false. It's the whole loan system that is inflating the prices. That's what's ruining our economy.
@NatashaEstrada spot on. The entire time they were talking about it. This is what I was thinking. Aka credit cards are allowed to screw you over with bank banks but not BMPL. Haha they cutting the middle man taking their profits regulations coming indeed.
@@NatashaEstrada that is a good use of this type of credit good point ! I suspect that those type of purchases are the rarity, and many more of them are people buying five pairs of shoes and fancy handbags, and four more outfits they don’t need I retired from my real job at age 60 I’m 63 now and run a small painting and property maintenance business basically for two clients who own a lot of properties I’m glad Most of the year I only need bum work pants and work shirts! In the summer couple times a week, I’ll wear nice shorts and a nice And my wife and I will go out to dinner at one of our decent local establishments no chains for us
Why do I feel like this video is less about consumers complaining about BNPL, and more about banks/Wall Street complaining about others cutting into their exclusivity in the debt/transaction market and how they can't pressure more vulnerable people with worse loans (due to lower credit score)?
@@lv1543 Just to be buying something? Sounds like he's responsible and has discipline which is the exact way one should handle spending and credit cards, debt in general.
It's a good start. But real freedom is having $0 debt at all. My home may be a singlewide in the woods but it's paid off, my truck may be 20 years old but I don't owe any money on it and I can do the repairs myself. I don't buy things I can't pay for in full on the spot. Took me almost a decade of scrimping and hard work, but knowing that the chain of debt is off your neck is profoundly freeing.
All of sudden we care about debt? Nope... this is banks feeling left out since they want to be the ones giving the very same loan. .. oh the heartfelt narrative behind is so convincing.
Holy cow the ignorance in this comment section is wild. I'm a skeptical person too. But please tell me how on earth banks are profiting from BNPL being required to report their data to the credit bureaus just like every other institution that offers credit?
@@adammarette2491 Yes you can! it is called a (bank issued) credit card. And that's precisely where the business is lost and so there is a fake group is created to pretend that they care about consumers.
@@Nonsense116Yes credit scores and banks have never been tools of oppression used against minorities and the poor right? Maybe banks should be focusing on lowering the percentage of society that is unbanked before they get annoyed about buy now pay later.
The U.S. economy relies on ongoing credit and debt generation for sustenance. The Federal Reserve is expected to increase the money supply, leading to further debt accumulation for the average American. Meanwhile, foreign nations continue to desire the U.S. dollar, despite their own economies facing significant challenges, some even worse than that of the U.S. This situation raises concerns about who will ultimately bear the consequences of these economic dynamics.
I wholeheartedly concur, which is why I appreciate giving an investment coach the power of decision-making. Given their specialized expertise and education, as well as the fact that each and every one of their skills is centered on harnessing risk for its asymmetrical potential and controlling it as a buffer against certain unfavorable developments, it is practically impossible for them to underperform. I have made over 1.5 million dollars working with an investment coach for more than two years
The title of this is misleading. The real title is phantom debt haunts banks and lenders because they are worried about not getting an accurate picture of household debt. Why do we as consumers care about that?
Because institutions would lend to people who can't afford it. If enough people default on their loans bank close which could hurt you and me and the broader economy for that matter. There is a cascading effect
@@arh1234 You can do all of the same with the credit card. AFAIK BNPLs are tougher to approve than credit card, and don't charge late fees. A big step better than CCs already.
@@mithicash1444 Maybe they should stop scare tactics and focus more on increasing income to match inflation or ways to lower rent so people can afford to not use BNPL.
@@PokemonHolo ok but how is fast food stupid? Food is a necessity that everybody needs. I just finished eating my fast food meal Just as a quick fyi. I eat this same meal every time I finish my workout. My only debt is car payments
@@omarmks6670 Fastfood is not a necessities it's a want. It's more expensive and if someone is broke or doesn't have allot of money at the end of the month it's something they shouldn't be spending money on. People in poor financial situations who are using Creditcards and BNPL are paying 20-30% interest rates to fund fast food meals.
@noonierune6933 I use afterpay all the time for purchases for my studio no credit checks no stupid interest no questions. I literally cut up all my credit cards when I found afterpay. I think everyone should switch from credit cards over to buy now pay later. Honestly it's made me a lot more cautious about how I spend my money. Before I would just max out my cards and spend years paying it back at minimum payments. Now I pay 4 simple payments, and it's done. Most I have done in 1 transaction is 800 bucks.
Government says banks are _required_ to make sure debt they issue is affordable. That pretty much gives them carte blanche to be as creepy as they want to be. It also provides them with the tools to gouge people they consider "high risk". Of course the alternative is they flat out refuse to lend to those people. Maybe that would be for the better in a lot of cases.
Since Biden took office, there seem to have been more unfavorable results in America. I don’t know how but you’ve managed to package an unbiased analysis that is more entertaining than the sensationalized segment of economic and financial news. Thank you for your efforts to be the signal and not the noise. I understand that the economy is currently in a downturn and that we must wait for things to get better
As hard as it may sound you can plan for the recession. If you are working, find extra work and get an Invest--advisor. Protect your deposits by having enough cash in short term fixed income. Then cut your expenses. Minimal insurance, cut utilities.
I think the current market might give opportunities to maximize profit within a short term, but in order to execute such strategy , you must be a skilled practitioner.
In my opinion, it was much easier investing back in the 60s but it’s a lot trickier now, those making consistent profit in these times are professionals reason I’ve been using an advisor for the past 5 years to consistently build my portfolio in preparations for retirement.
Sounds like traditional financial institutions are concerned with consumers not using credit cards to pay for products and then cash in on interest or late fees. People that are well off don't need to spread their payments over time, so the real money comes with people who cant clear their balance in full each month. Also Credit Bureau's caring more about me paying off some random product that I purchased once vs my montly rent is silly 😂 Don't be fooled, this is more about protecting credit card companies than consumers.
i agree with you. have been using all of those major services for years now and not a single issue so far. also the returns/refunds process is as straightforward as with any other 'traditional' service, if not simpler. i also felt like the big players like banks and the good ole american credit system are just being disturbed by the fact that now not all the money are going their way.
Summary: all of the experts in the video are upset that the credit reporting agencies don't have more of your personal information to sell to lenders . LOL
Yeah it sounds like big banks and lenders are trying to get us worked up about BNPL so they can get more profits 😂 they’re mad that they lost a customer to BNPL when they used to be able to rely on giving them their credit card or loan for a 30 percent interest 😂
Notice they rarely ever cared about getting your rent and utility payments reported because their only goal is to keep you with a low score to pay higher rates. That's what they get for making it damage your credit when they did report it, they did this to themselves!
My dividend journey began when I realized that two particular expenses in my budget were always going to go up and never go down. The two expenses were taxes and insurance. I realized that the dramatic rise in both will need some added income. So, I started buying shares paying dividends. I can now see that this will be the path I need to take to make sure those two expenses will not overtake my future income.
As a beginner, educate yourself, Learn the basics of investing and the stock market. There are many resources available online, including books, articles, and online courses. It’s a good idea to diversify your portfolio across different stocks and sectors to minimize risk. I’ve heard of people accruing over $550k during recessions and inflation, its important to do your own research.
How can one find a verifiable financial planner? I would not mind looking up the professional that helped you. I will be retiring in two years and I might need some management on my much larger portfolio. Don't want to take any chances.
I really don't like making such recommendations, because everybody's situation is unique. But there are many freelance advisors you could check out. We have been working with ’MICHELE KATHERINE SINGH , and she's really, really good. If she meets your discretion, then you could go ahead with her. I endorse her.
...I really don't like making such recommendations, because everybody's situation is unique. But there are many freelance advisors you could check out. We have been working with ’MICHELE KATHERINE SINGH , and she's really, really good. If she meets your discretion, then you could go ahead with her. I endorse her.
Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up after scrolling a bit. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her. Once again many thanks
If you're responsible, it's a very attractive option. Your card balance (if you're carrying one) doesn't take a big hit, the payments are usually on an autopay schedule, and there's 0% interest if you pay within the designated window.
The 0 interest is rather rare. Most have interest automatically calculated into the monthly payments. Some do offer no interest, but those are rare and usually for specific items
@@mithicash1444 Most of the items I've purchased with these services have 0% interest but are all paid within 6 weeks. The price of the item is the same regardless of the method. It would be literally illegal to calculate interest into the monthly payments while also stating it's interest free. Where BNPL works really well is for clothing purchases where you might need to order multiple sizes to find the right fit. Clothing retailers are notoriously bad when it comes to processing returns and refunds in a timely manner. With a service like Klarna if you tell them your returning something they'll pause your payments until it's processed.
I'm not sure how you've packaged an objective analysis that is more entertaining than the sensationalised section of economic and financial news, but since Biden took office, there seem to have been more negative outcomes in America. Thank you for your efforts to be the signal and not the noise. I realise that the economy is currently experiencing a downturn and that we must wait for things to improve.
As hard as it may sound you can plan for the recession. If you are working, find extra work and get an Invest--advisor. Protect your deposits by having enough cash in short term fixed income. Then cut your expenses. Minimal insurance, cut utilities.
Although you need to be an experienced practitioner to carry out such a strategy, I believe that the current market may present prospects to maximise profit in the near future.
Investments were, in my opinion, far easier to make in the 1960s than they are now. Professionals are the ones that consistently make profits these days, which is why I have been hiring an advisor for the past five years to steadily increase my portfolio in anticipation of retirement.
How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financlal future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
Annette Christine Conte'' is the licensed coach I use. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
I can tell this is a hit piece from the banks because they are losing a lot due to these pay now, pay later companies. They want the profits for themselves!
They would benefit by going on an anti BNPL campaign because ideally the customers using BNPL would drift back towards getting banking products like loans or credit cards to cover the costs instead. They don’t care about people being in debt in and of itself, they care that those being are in debt with them because they can cash in on interest. Usually the customers who use BNPL are already economically vulnerable or don’t have great credit history and if banks were already to have these customers, they could charge them interest and fees out the ass and justify it by pulling up their credit score or lack thereof. It’s all a business. They make profits from people being indebted to them
I like BNPL, bcuz most of the time u are on installment payments for like 6 months to a year with zero to 5% fees compared to bank loans or credit cards that have a huge interest within a month.
I've been using these for 4 years.. In all honesty it's easier to maintain than a traditional credit line. The 4 spread out payments are more simplified than a large single payment. I do gig work full time.. so having that flexibility is helpful.
My portfolio doesn’t just cater to dividend stocks. I hold $VFIAX (S&P 500 index fund) in my Roth IRA and $VTI (Total Stock Market ETF) in my taxable brokerage account. Two of my largest holdings. The individual dividend stock positions all complement the index holdings.
If you lack market knowledge, your best bet is to seek advice or support from a consultant or investing coach. Contacting a consultant may sound simple, but it's how I've managed to stay afloat in the market and increase my portfolio to roughly 60% early this year. It is, in my opinion, the best way to get started in the industry right now.
''LUCIA ALICIA CRUZ'' is the licensed coach I use. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Your contribution to the narrative is fine and good - although...I'm not exactly certain how your "op-ed" is germane to the topic addressed in this video.
Invest judiciously, keep a stop loss figure. Shuffle between debt and equity wherever the ratio goes too off your target. As for the target, I recommend a Ratio like this Debt % should be equal to your age in years. If you are 20, debt is 20%, reset in equity. If the market falls or rises drastically, your debt % will change, which you should rebalance to 20% and bring back equity to 80%. Thus you would have bought low or booked profit depending on if it was a crash or a bull run.
Effective personal finance management is more important than the amount of money saved, regardless of whether income is earned through job or investment. Individuals can seek counsel from a certified financial advisor to optimize financial outcomes, who can provide specialized advice and methods to decrease expenses and maximize income.
I agree, that's the more reason I prefer my day to day investment decisions being guided by an advisor, seeing that their entire skillset is built around going long and short at the same time both employing risk for its asymmetrical upside and laying off risk as a hedge against the inevitable downward turns, coupled with the exclusive information/analysis they have, it's near impossible to not out-perform, been using my advisor for over 2years+ and I've netted over 2.8million.
I think this is something I should do, but I've been stalling for a long time now. I don't really know which firm to work with; I feel they are all the same but it seems you’ve got it all worked out with the firm you work with so i surely wouldn’t mind a recommendation.
There are a handful of experts in the field. I've experimented with a few over the past years, but I've stuck with ‘’Aileen Gertrude Tippy’’ for about five years now, and her performance has been consistently impressive. She’s quite known in her field, look-her up.
I like the Buy Now Pay Later option. Having 0% APR for a couple hundred dollar purchase is fantastic. They key I found out is to not have more than one BNPL purchase at a time. It's very easy to get in trouble.
My thoughts exactly! I have used BNPL for purchases that I have the money for, but just don't want to spend all of it in one lump sum. As you mentioned, I think the danger is having multiple BNPL AND not having the money/a realistic plan to pay the loan off.
The only “buy now pay later” debt I’d ever incur is for medical expenses. Why seeing a dermatologist once costs over $200 for an insured person is a mystery to me. Sure, I have a high deductible, but why is it still that expensive for an “in-network” provider?? 🙃
I took an x-ray and they quoted me $150 with my insurance. I asked how much it would be for a cash patient. They said $60. .....Naturally, I just paid as a cash patient and didn't use my insurance. Yeah not sure why it works that way. 🙄
Right?? My 5 minute follow up video appointment with my PCP was $150... Luckily, I have an HSA so I can put everything on that card but I know more people who don't have one or don't qualify for one.
@@Meerkat17 When paying cash (and if it is truly $60 for an x-ray), you're not meeting deductible and stuff. insurance can deny follow-up care because you don't have an x-ray on record, therefore, you might have to do another x-ray. The better question is why the provider you're going to willing to charge $60 for cash, but only willing to settle for $150 with insurance.
You have a high deductible plan, that's why. A part of High Deductible plan is a HSA eligible plan which law requires no coverage until a minimum deductible is met. It's Gov't regulation, also modeled after historical data. if you are paying less, you would be seeing a higher premium. As insurance goes, there are generally 2 groups of people. group A: I'm paying too much for insurance while not using it at all. Group B: I'm paying too much for care even though I have insurance. Insurance model are cost modeled somewhere between A and B, they make about the same amount of money regardless which way they shift toward to... the more group B pays, the less group A complains. the less Group B pays, the more group A pays and complains. just how money works.
I remember a guy telling me he always carried a balance on his credit card of like $5k because “it helped build his credit score” and he said he was fine with paying a little under $100/mo for that. Many Americans seem to genuinely hate having money. The US makes record profits just by doing everything to avoid teaching financial literacy
That's really strange. There's an ideal "revolving utilization" for a credit card score of, from what I can tell, 2.5% ±2. Assuming he's right with his math he probably has a mid 6 figure credit line. Odd thing is that we are always running about 3% with no static ballance. I can't see paying $1,000/yr ($1,200 less maybe $200 from the 1099 INT gains) just to nail the sweet spot.
CORRECTION: I believe they are misusing the term "layaway" in this story. Layaway refers to an arrangement where a customer requests a retailer to hold an item or items for a predetermined amount of time until the full purchase price is paid. Typically, the customer pays a deposit and makes scheduled payments over time. Once the total cost is paid, the customer receives the item. If the customer does not complete the payments, they forfeit the deposit used to hold the item. This piece misleads viewers into thinking that layaway allows a consumer to take the item/items before fully paying for them. (4:12)
This was call Lay-A-Way back in the day. The big difference was there was NO interest. It was usually something l$125 bucks or less. I did it when I bought a pair of Jordan 5s in 1990.
@@arh1234Sometimes you did though. It wasn't uncommon for appliances to be a buy here pay here type of situation where you got to take it home first and come back for payments but wasn't formal financing. Or as I'd see my parents do they'd pay with post dated checks. Meaning they'd leave 3-4 checks totalling up to the full cost of the item with the agreement the store would deposit them a month apart, This really isn't anything new expect for the fact that it's centralized with one or two services.
This whole 'phantom debt' issue with BNPL is way overblown. The $2 trillion revolving debt from credit cards is a way bigger problem than something that's 1/1000th of the size. Affirm doesn’t even charge late fees, so there's no revolving debt problem like with credit cards. And seriously, if people couldn’t pay back, why are there so many BNPL companies making money, even without late fees?
@@aka_pierre Yeah and in the 80's it wasn't uncommon to pay for things with post-dated checks. QVC basically invented this version of it too because for mail order there is a lag between ordering and getting it so biweekly payments made sense.
The thing is the Banks are the ones loaning money to the BNPL companies, and they're getting very nervous about being repaid because quite a few of them are reporting very concerning rates of failure to pay, while others are clearly cooking their books. So the banks are afraid the BNPL companies are going to go bankrupt and leave them with huge losses on their loan books.
I feel this is only a problem for big banks because they're making less on credit card interest. As a consumer, I'm going to pick the interest-free option that makes sure it's paid off within 3 months. I'm not going to stick it on an expensive credit card that get stuck on there for months/years at a time.
Some rich dude "I have billions and never have to worry about money for the next 1,000 years. But i want more and to get it i must take from the poor" truly a psychopathic mindset.
Uh huh. Let me tell you what I heard… There is a well-regulated system for optimizing loan structures by making sure economically-disadvantaged consumers stay dependent on the system so they are forced to continue making interest payments. But now, there is another system these consumers can use that does not impact their credit score (i.e. the tool being used to keep them in a cycle of high interest payments), and they are using it to purchase things that they would normally purchase using the high interest system. So now, the people who make money off the high-interest system are trying to force regulations on the no-interest system under the guise of consumer protection (i.e. We’re just looking out for your best interest. We don’t want you to drown in debt). That argument would fly if the high-interest system didn’t maximize debt for consumers. But Newsflash: people who are using Buy-Now-Pay-Later loans are already drowning in debt. They just aren’t trying to tread water with a weighted vest on like they are in the traditional credit rating system. If you’re upset that people have found a loophole to your very lucrative system of keeping people in enough debt to generate profits for the wealthy, just say that.
Yeah I heard that too. They aren't going to get ppl to accept their $300 limit with a $125/yr annual fee and 30% interest credit cards anymore. They are looking to Europe and seeing young people not even using credit cards at all and it worries them
Yup! Screw em. I rather pay for a 400 purchase in 4 100 dollar payments than giving the credit card company a chance at getting me to pay them 20 percent or even more in interest.
No that's not what they said at all. The whole video is all about the loans aren't reported so economists have a murky view on the true health of the economics of America. Also loan structures don't force anyone to do anything. People choose to sign on the dotted line. In the age of the internet people are choosing to be uneducated on the loans they sign up form. These "people" you say that are forcing regulation on BNPL aren't force an interest system. They are forcing them to report data to agencies. They aren't profiting. Don't get me wrong I'm a pretty skeptical person, but not everything is some conspiracy theory. Trust me, we DO NOT want unregulated lending. It's how 2008 happened. Your comments makes me wonder how much education you have in finance. If you are uneducated on a topic, that's ok, I was too at one point. But when I was uneducated, I made sure to keep my thoughts to myself.
Something that I noticed about 100% of the poor people homes I used to go into when I was volunteering with a charity: always ALWAYS an enormous TV. Always a clutter of cheap, useless stuff like throw pillows, stuffed animals, resin statues of sparkly unicorns, lava lamps, "collectible" Barbies still in boxes, ticky-tacky stuff like that. So when they tell you this phantom debt affects "the most vulnerable," they're right. It's affecting the people most vulnerable to marketing ploys to buy tacky sh×× they don't need. It's affecting the dumb people, in other words. Don't be dumb, control your impulses, don't buy stuff that has no lasting purpose, and live within your means, and you won't be vulnerable.
The lady who was working from the front door's hallway is smart. People who don't buy a bigger home (more $$$) to have another bedroom to conduct business have saved the money. Good luck to us all! 😊
We need a new word for this. Phantom debt historically meant bill collectors making bad faith collection calls on debt that they knew was past the statute of limitations. This is confusing to name 2 concepts the same thing.
And that type was exactly what I expected to get info about. Smh at these supposed experienced financial talking heads somehow not knowing this term is for a long running problem child in the consumer finance arena. 😑🤦
This is a very smart option for people that understand that right now money is worth less in the future than right now - invest what you didnt pay in full on. Of course, this is not at all who they are hoping use this ... its those that will default and get fees. But you CAN benefit from this if you are responsible.
My definition of phantom debt has nothing to do with buy now, pay later. I define phantom debt as government spending that is unaccounted for, whether it's on a local, state, or federal level.
@@g.t.richardson6311 well with or without these buy now pay later loans people will still acrue debt and clearly big babks want these debts for interest, and if they get enough default they can ask for a bailout. So again this is just big banks crying that they are losing their share
This is a massive problem, I can’t tell you how many women my age (early 30/s) are using these platforms and then get overwhelmed by BNPL on multiple items.
I've used them before but not anymore. I'm personally working on rebuilding my credit though. Even if I wanted to get one of these loans they wouldn't accept me anyway.
@@NatashaEstrada Yes. I worked in a layaway department once at a clothing store. People would put $300 ($900 in today's dollars) of new clothes that we just got in for the season and cancel most of it before the layaway period expired, maybe buying $20 or $30 of it. By then it was out of season and needed to be marked down.
I used to handle returns ar KMart, which was linked to the layaway department. I remember when a layaway item had to go back on the shelf, sometimes the person who originally requested the layaway would get super stressed that the item went back on the shelf, and then become super releived that the item was still available. I could tell that the customer had somehow been fooled into perceiving not-real scarcity. People need to struggle against their scarcity mentality, if we want to get a leg up against corporate dominance.
@@chrishaddad5362 Both can be true. People do spend unnecessarily and take on absurd debt, but also the economy and inflationary pressures are crushing the lower class who don't own assets while the rich with assets have never been better off.
@@dbased1915 I've never seen an Afterpay option at a gas station or at a grocery store. This is people buying garbage they don't need. Not everything is a class battle. Most things are just people behaving foolishly.
As an old guy who has only incurred debt twice in my life - one home mortgage and one vehicle loan, I find it puzzling why anyone would go into debt to purchase anything which was not absolutely essential especially with such high interest rates.
Because Credit analysts and agencies are so transparent about their policies and the 3 credit score keepers are so honest about their algorithim and will allow people to grow credit ...its a corrupt system all around. I can't get a job bc of my credit issues or a place to rent because the big 3 say I have bad credit because they don't see that inflated fed rate impact on the credit card is not my doing (22% interest rate became 29% when fed rate went up).
Read: credit issuers are mad they can't accurately assess peoples' creditworthiness. It also threatens the viability/usability/reliability/relevance of FICO and the credit reporting agencies, so you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be required to be reported somehow sooner rather than later.
@@Nonsense116 Lol. Yet, in a sense, my comment hints at that. These BNPL companies have done an end-run around the effective lock on credit and lending that the "traditional" financial sector has enjoyed for a long time. Now, there exists this small option for folks for whom the existing system doesn't work. The existing credit rating system probably doesn't want its apple cart tipped. And so lenders want to see this "phantom debt" on credit reports, but FICO and reporting agencies probably don't want to have to incorporate that data into their scoring algorithms (they've resisted changes in the past). That would be a win for lenders, but a loss for borrowers (if the default rates of BNPL loans presented in the story are accurate). The conspiracy theorist in me tends to think that big banks want the credit score to reflect only that activity that occurs within the "traditional" lending industry (i.e. the industry they largely control) in order to pressure the common folk to participate in *their* system. That, I think, is one of the reasons why paying utility bills on time, paying cell phone bills on time, and debit card / checking account activity aren't included in the thing that is supposed to represent -- at least in some sense -- how well you manage your finances.
Do we need more regulation to protect people from themselves? If you can't afford it, don't buy it. There are millions of people wanting to take your money, it will never stop.
People in North America need to learn how to spend what they truly have - to not spend availing any type of credit. Shocks me how people here in Canada and the US talk about affordability - they mean being able to 'afford' payments on debt, and being able to qualify for debt. There is simply no savings culture. And wages are incredibly low for the livings costs. And everyone seems to be bought in to the concept of 'credit scores' which really ought to be laughed at. Shocking!
You cant buy a car or house without a credit score. Unless of course you are a millionaire and can hand over a 600k dollar cheque. No normal people can do that.
@@ADobbin1 That is the point. The system should ensure that folks have enough money with which to afford a home / vehicle. Not a loan. The credit score should aim at reflecting an individual’s liquidity/wealth; Instead of the person’s ability to ‘afford’ a loan.
@@hs1296 It does reflect liquidity and wealth. It is based on how big a loan your income can support and whether or not and how often you have missed payments in the past.
The key is to only spend what you have. If you don’t have the money in which to purchase the item, then don’t buy it. This is excluding vehicle repairs, house repairs, etc. I’m speaking of discretionary spending.
For your average consumer this doesnt seem like an actual problem. BNPL defaulting doesnt affect your credit score. If you cant afford a BNPL loan just stop. This however is a massive issue for any industry who uses credit scores, and regulations will only come from their whinning.
Those who survived the hosing crash, stopped living beyond their means, started saving money and used cards only in emergencies. Banks started running advisements against savings because they were losing interest on debt in the terms of millions. Don't incurr debt of any kind unless its an emergency.
Another potential collapse looms in that market segment, likely leaving taxpayers as the losers. It's hard to believe this situation persists when most consumers are already financially exhausted.
I did it once a few years ago when buying a rare book. Three monthly payments with no interest was nice. But I can see how some can get trapped in it like a payday loan.
This report is so biased towards credit card companies its ridiculous. I actually find a good thing that people who use BNPL can circumvent the credit requirements of traditional debt
I agree. Especially a person that is struggling to get a loan. There is responsible consumers out there with no credit to bad credit. This gives them the opportunity to purchase something they can pay off later.
My neighbor loves "buy now, pay later." She can easily pay in full, but she takes huge emotional pleasure in not paying for things she takes home and making vendors wait. It's perfectly legit, so whatever floats her boat, but it's the exact opposite of my comfort, which comes from having no debt. Maybe a lot of the phantom debt is just due to that type of personality that gets a thrill from not paying for a while.
@@cameronrussell8409 That's fascinating. They aren't both waiting? You think the bank hands over payment in full to the vendor and later is made whole by my neighbor's monthly payments, without interest? That seems very unbanklike. And if that were the case, I would think banks would have a precise bead on phantom debt, because it would be real debt to them.
I love how this is framed not as a problem of affordability, but rather a problem of not being able to punish consumers by charging them more interest when they are already overburdened.
I use buy now pay later here in there. It's convenient if used right. But then again I have a stable income so there's no issues when the payments hit every couple weeks. That being said I currently have no buy now pay later payments pending at this time. ☺️
The golden rule of consumerism should be "If you can't afford it you don't need it" Trying to keep up with the Jones' for status symbolism or needing the latest and the greatest is a fast track to destitution. Debt is like body fat, it's easy to acquire but very difficult to get rid of.
Who could've guessed when financial literacy isn't taught in school and corporations give people more and more access to money to create debt, their would be a problem. 🤔
I’m not gonna say buy now pay later is a good thing but after a year of short contract jobs it’s been the reason my husband and I have been able to buy food on 4-5 occasions in the last year. We don’t overspend but when one person is making 60k and the other is without a job for the next couple weeks, you have to do what you have to do.
that Wells Fargo analyst is mad on the company's behalf because the multi installment payment option is cutting into their credit card transaction volume. all of the consumer credit machine is predatory, only buy stuff you can pay for in cash, prioritize needs, not the wants, and don't lets wants become "needs" in your head, no matter what the sales pitch trys to convince you of. edit: a Wells Fargo employee describing poor regulations is hilarious given their track record of past actions.
This is a brilliant plan. The poors who are materialistic can’t help themselves. Imagine paying for a $30 shein clothing item in installments. How do I invest in these companies??
I don't understand... if these lenders aren't creating coercive environment where consumers get pressured into taking out such loans, why is the onus on the lenders when they're only allowing for easy, 0% interest loans? It is the Consumers who should watch where they spend money. Taking away this mechanism is like taking away loans like credit card or mortgage just because few people have trouble paying them off. It's unbelievable how everything becomes about blaming the big bad corporations, when it is a few consumers who are not exercising restraint. Soon enough, consumers' credit scores will prevent them purchasing via this mechanism if they are irresponsible. Others shouldn't get their options limited just because a few consumers can't be trusted with payment options.
I get where you coming from. To me it's still a bit "un-sporting" since we have a lot of really ignorant people with stagnant work skills. Some were lousy at high-school history, math and finance and will never get it. Among some populations there's even a certain pride in being ignorant of core life skills. I once walked with some friends to get our paychecks cashed and while I felt robbed they were perfectly happy donating a good portion of their check as if it was a charity. It's not as negligent as running a lottery but not exactly squeaky clean, in my opinion.
@@antilogism you’re not wrong to want a segment of consumers, namely the less sophisticated and vulnerable ones, protected from predatory practices. But like we shouldn’t outlaw kitchen knives just bc some clumsy adults hurt themselves at times, we can’t limit these mechanisms that promote commerce, which in turn helps economy grow and develop and create jobs. I’m not against creating rules to prevent total ruin of an individual but we also can’t bring down the average just to protect a few at the bottom
Can't afford now, try to pay for it later. The fact this exist just speaks more to irresponsible spending by people. Regulating bad habits seems to be the play.
Yeah, I think I saw a similar video last year about Singapore... not just a USA issue. The rise of digital payments make it simple to just split the cost over a number of months, which leads to overspending.
Same concept as buying real estate, car, and education? Buying things and not paying the full amount but in installments resulting in mortgage loans, auto loans, and student loans, respectively. Now it just goes to "cheaper" things like food, gadgets, and household items.
Perhaps, and I mean perhaps, we should be teaching kids responsible spending, budgeting, and financially responsible behavior in school. I know, we stopped doing that since they took out account budgeting from home economics (and took out these classes all together), but maybe we should bring these back and make them required.
Doing so would be educating the populace that they have to take a decrease in quality of life. How long would put up with living with multiple roommates just to keep rent affordable?
I think Pay in 4 is probably more financially responsible than putting it on a credit card since the installation loan demands that it's all paid within 6 weeks with 25% being paid up front and 25% every 2 weeks. You can do all kinds of financial shenanigans with credit cards. Pay in 4 is very popular in Europe and I don't see it going anywhere. I think the younger generation is just rejecting traditional banking products.
@@NatashaEstrada I see it as a way for businesses to try to capture more customers. They know there are people who can't afford their product but still want to be able to sell to them.
The amount of payment plans for once, one time payment things have jumped insanely. I don't remember there being this many people paying off concerts months later as opposed to buying the dang ticket once and being done with it. Granted we know concerts have become ultra inflated, but uhh if it takes me 5 months to pay off a show I'll go ahead and hard pass
I put a concert ticket on a pay later option because the artist announced the dates on a day when I didn’t have the ticket money free to spend. It’s not that I couldn’t afford to just pay for the ticket, it just made it easier for me without having to make a bunch of corresponding sacrifices in other areas.
@empiresSR ok, listen to yourself for a minute. I didn't have money to spend cause I had more pressing issues that needed attention. If 30 bucks difference is gonna put you in strange waters for a few months, you might wanna focus on that than spending 200 on a show. Iam not trying to sound dickish, iam just saying concert shows are way overpriced and feeding into it is just gonna make it worse.
A better title is How Phantom Debt is haunting lending banks and regulators. The debt is not “phantom” to the consumer falling behind and getting bills.
Finance people are pure artists of “How do we make money from people who don’t have money”
Notice how the people complaining the loudest about this is the traditional banks.
Because the reality is BNPL cuts in to the sub sub sub prime credit card market. K'know those trash card with 35% interest and $100 annual fees.
This is the type of consumer BNPL taps into. They don't allow people to have huge limits straight away but the cost of financing is far more reasonable.
I've seen it used pretty responsibly too. Workers buying quality workboots that will last them rather than buying the cheapest they could afford with a single paycheck.
The entire credit system has ruined our economy. Ppl complain that we are printing too much money, In my opinion, that's false. It's the whole loan system that is inflating the prices. That's what's ruining our economy.
@NatashaEstrada spot on. The entire time they were talking about it. This is what I was thinking. Aka credit cards are allowed to screw you over with bank banks but not BMPL. Haha they cutting the middle man taking their profits regulations coming indeed.
Suckered will be suckered. Financial literacy ain't a joke, BNPL preys upon the financially illiterate, same way traditional institutions do.
@@NatashaEstrada that is a good use of this type of credit good point !
I suspect that those type of purchases are the rarity, and many more of them are people buying five pairs of shoes and fancy handbags, and four more outfits they don’t need
I retired from my real job at age 60
I’m 63 now and run a small painting and property maintenance business basically for two clients who own a lot of properties
I’m glad Most of the year I only need bum work pants and work shirts!
In the summer couple times a week, I’ll wear nice shorts and a nice And my wife and I will go out to dinner at one of our decent local establishments no chains for us
Why do I feel like this video is less about consumers complaining about BNPL, and more about banks/Wall Street complaining about others cutting into their exclusivity in the debt/transaction market and how they can't pressure more vulnerable people with worse loans (due to lower credit score)?
🎯🎯🎯
Exactly! Why do you think the BNPL report and most of the people talking are from Wells Fargo? 🤔
Wells Fargo, the people responsible for making fake bank accounts for customers, gasp
because it is
Exactly like I don't see an issue with people using BNPL since it doesn't use traditional credit checks
The biggest flex is owing $0 on all credit cards.
You should buy something rn tbh
@@lv1543 Just to be buying something? Sounds like he's responsible and has discipline which is the exact way one should handle spending and credit cards, debt in general.
@@kb9826 no he sounds like a dork who needs to lighten up. He will never be rich just spend everything and max out your credit cards
@@lv1543 I still buy pointless stuff online but pay it off asap
It's a good start. But real freedom is having $0 debt at all. My home may be a singlewide in the woods but it's paid off, my truck may be 20 years old but I don't owe any money on it and I can do the repairs myself. I don't buy things I can't pay for in full on the spot. Took me almost a decade of scrimping and hard work, but knowing that the chain of debt is off your neck is profoundly freeing.
All of sudden we care about debt? Nope... this is banks feeling left out since they want to be the ones giving the very same loan. .. oh the heartfelt narrative behind is so convincing.
There is some truth to this. However you can't go into a bank and get a loan for 2500$ worth of groceries and clothes. Least not easily
Holy cow the ignorance in this comment section is wild. I'm a skeptical person too. But please tell me how on earth banks are profiting from BNPL being required to report their data to the credit bureaus just like every other institution that offers credit?
@@adammarette2491 Yes you can! it is called a (bank issued) credit card. And that's precisely where the business is lost and so there is a fake group is created to pretend that they care about consumers.
@@Nonsense116 That is not what I said
@@Nonsense116Yes credit scores and banks have never been tools of oppression used against minorities and the poor right? Maybe banks should be focusing on lowering the percentage of society that is unbanked before they get annoyed about buy now pay later.
The U.S. economy relies on ongoing credit and debt generation for sustenance. The Federal Reserve is expected to increase the money supply, leading to further debt accumulation for the average American. Meanwhile, foreign nations continue to desire the U.S. dollar, despite their own economies facing significant challenges, some even worse than that of the U.S. This situation raises concerns about who will ultimately bear the consequences of these economic dynamics.
I wholeheartedly concur, which is why I appreciate giving an investment coach the power of decision-making. Given their specialized expertise and education, as well as the fact that each and every one of their skills is centered on harnessing risk for its asymmetrical potential and controlling it as a buffer against certain unfavorable developments, it is practically impossible for them to underperform. I have made over 1.5 million dollars working with an investment coach for more than two years
Do you mind sharing info on the adviser who assisted you?
Her name is “Jessica Lee Horst ” can't divulge much. Most likely, the internet should have her basic info, you can research if you like
Thanks, i did a quick web search and i found Jessica, i hope she responds to my mail.
The world is made of BUYERS & SELLERS . Which are you ?
The title of this is misleading. The real title is phantom debt haunts banks and lenders because they are worried about not getting an accurate picture of household debt. Why do we as consumers care about that?
People are getting caught in cycles, like with stacking subscriptions, with multiple BNPLs automatically hitting their credit cards.
Because institutions would lend to people who can't afford it. If enough people default on their loans bank close which could hurt you and me and the broader economy for that matter. There is a cascading effect
@@arh1234 You can do all of the same with the credit card. AFAIK BNPLs are tougher to approve than credit card, and don't charge late fees. A big step better than CCs already.
@@mithicash1444 Maybe they should stop scare tactics and focus more on increasing income to match inflation or ways to lower rent so people can afford to not use BNPL.
@@arh1234bmpl??
Halloween must be coming. First I saw a thing about zombie mortgages this morning, now phantom debt.
😂
It’s Halloween everyday right now
Christmas in July
Halloween in June
Well it started out being name Bidenomics and just keeps changing…
Next up: vampire credit cards and werewolf auto loans
I think this skirts the real problem... The fact that Americans need to take out a loan to buy necessities.
These aren’t necessities on these plans.
It's not being used for necessities.
Just like Creditcard which BNPL is, people use it for stupid stuff including fast food.
@@PokemonHolo ok but how is fast food stupid? Food is a necessity that everybody needs. I just finished eating my fast food meal
Just as a quick fyi. I eat this same meal every time I finish my workout. My only debt is car payments
@@omarmks6670 Fastfood is not a necessities it's a want. It's more expensive and if someone is broke or doesn't have allot of money at the end of the month it's something they shouldn't be spending money on.
People in poor financial situations who are using Creditcards and BNPL are paying 20-30% interest rates to fund fast food meals.
@@PokemonHoloyes they are. You can use these for rent payments, and bills. Maybe you should look into it 😂
The only reason this is an issue is because credit card issuers are losing that Sweet interest money.
Yep
@noonierune6933 I use afterpay all the time for purchases for my studio no credit checks no stupid interest no questions. I literally cut up all my credit cards when I found afterpay. I think everyone should switch from credit cards over to buy now pay later. Honestly it's made me a lot more cautious about how I spend my money. Before I would just max out my cards and spend years paying it back at minimum payments. Now I pay 4 simple payments, and it's done. Most I have done in 1 transaction is 800 bucks.
🎯
Booommmm
That's not how this works
The things you own end up owning you.
I liked Fight Club too.
@@denz4133haha, beat me to it.
So, phantom debt = banks NEED to be able to track that debt through credit reports. Gotcha
Government says banks are _required_ to make sure debt they issue is affordable. That pretty much gives them carte blanche to be as creepy as they want to be. It also provides them with the tools to gouge people they consider "high risk". Of course the alternative is they flat out refuse to lend to those people. Maybe that would be for the better in a lot of cases.
Since Biden took office, there seem to have been more unfavorable results in America. I don’t know how but you’ve managed to package an unbiased analysis that is more entertaining than the sensationalized segment of economic and financial news. Thank you for your efforts to be the signal and not the noise. I understand that the economy is currently in a downturn and that we must wait for things to get better
As hard as it may sound you can plan for the recession. If you are working, find extra work and get an Invest--advisor. Protect your deposits by having enough cash in short term fixed income. Then cut your expenses. Minimal insurance, cut utilities.
I think the current market might give opportunities to maximize profit within a short term, but in order to execute such strategy , you must be a skilled practitioner.
In my opinion, it was much easier investing back in the 60s but it’s a lot trickier now, those making consistent profit in these times are professionals reason I’ve been using an advisor for the past 5 years to consistently build my portfolio in preparations for retirement.
@@hasede-lg9hj my partner’s been considering going the same route, could you share more info please on the advisor that guides you.
my partner’s been considering going the same route, could you share more info please on the advisor that guides you.
Your researcher seems to have missed the fact that Layaway meant you didn't pick up the item until it was paid in full.
Sounds like traditional financial institutions are concerned with consumers not using credit cards to pay for products and then cash in on interest or late fees. People that are well off don't need to spread their payments over time, so the real money comes with people who cant clear their balance in full each month.
Also Credit Bureau's caring more about me paying off some random product that I purchased once vs my montly rent is silly 😂 Don't be fooled, this is more about protecting credit card companies than consumers.
i agree with you. have been using all of those major services for years now and not a single issue so far. also the returns/refunds process is as straightforward as with any other 'traditional' service, if not simpler.
i also felt like the big players like banks and the good ole american credit system are just being disturbed by the fact that now not all the money are going their way.
Summary: all of the experts in the video are upset that the credit reporting agencies don't have more of your personal information to sell to lenders . LOL
Yeah it sounds like big banks and lenders are trying to get us worked up about BNPL so they can get more profits 😂 they’re mad that they lost a customer to BNPL when they used to be able to rely on giving them their credit card or loan for a 30 percent interest 😂
Notice they rarely ever cared about getting your rent and utility payments reported because their only goal is to keep you with a low score to pay higher rates.
That's what they get for making it damage your credit when they did report it, they did this to themselves!
EXACTLY!!!! Just left a comment that echoes yours! More and more people are understanding how greed is killing our country.
My dividend journey began when I realized that two particular expenses in my budget were always going to go up and never go down. The two expenses were taxes and insurance. I realized that the dramatic rise in both will need some added income. So, I started buying shares paying dividends. I can now see that this will be the path I need to take to make sure those two expenses will not overtake my future income.
As a beginner, educate yourself, Learn the basics of investing and the stock market. There are many resources available online, including books, articles, and online courses. It’s a good idea to diversify your portfolio across different stocks and sectors to minimize risk. I’ve heard of people accruing over $550k during recessions and inflation, its important to do your own research.
How can one find a verifiable financial planner? I would not mind looking up the professional that helped you. I will be retiring in two years and I might need some management on my much larger portfolio. Don't want to take any chances.
I really don't like making such recommendations, because everybody's situation is unique. But there are many freelance advisors you could check out. We have been working with ’MICHELE KATHERINE SINGH , and she's really, really good. If she meets your discretion, then you could go ahead with her. I endorse her.
...I really don't like making such recommendations, because everybody's situation is unique. But there are many freelance advisors you could check out. We have been working with ’MICHELE KATHERINE SINGH , and she's really, really good. If she meets your discretion, then you could go ahead with her. I endorse her.
Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up after scrolling a bit. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her. Once again many thanks
Inflation and the real debt total is understated.
If you're responsible, it's a very attractive option. Your card balance (if you're carrying one) doesn't take a big hit, the payments are usually on an autopay schedule, and there's 0% interest if you pay within the designated window.
The 0 interest is rather rare. Most have interest automatically calculated into the monthly payments. Some do offer no interest, but those are rare and usually for specific items
lol If one is "Responsible'', One does not need credit. 8/
Zero interest but isnt there a fee? Lol
@@mithicash1444 Most of the items I've purchased with these services have 0% interest but are all paid within 6 weeks.
The price of the item is the same regardless of the method.
It would be literally illegal to calculate interest into the monthly payments while also stating it's interest free.
Where BNPL works really well is for clothing purchases where you might need to order multiple sizes to find the right fit. Clothing retailers are notoriously bad when it comes to processing returns and refunds in a timely manner. With a service like Klarna if you tell them your returning something they'll pause your payments until it's processed.
@@the_investor9836 Nope, many are 0 apr and no fee for 4 payments every two weeks.
I'm not sure how you've packaged an objective analysis that is more entertaining than the sensationalised section of economic and financial news, but since Biden took office, there seem to have been more negative outcomes in America. Thank you for your efforts to be the signal and not the noise. I realise that the economy is currently experiencing a downturn and that we must wait for things to improve.
As hard as it may sound you can plan for the recession. If you are working, find extra work and get an Invest--advisor. Protect your deposits by having enough cash in short term fixed income. Then cut your expenses. Minimal insurance, cut utilities.
Although you need to be an experienced practitioner to carry out such a strategy, I believe that the current market may present prospects to maximise profit in the near future.
Investments were, in my opinion, far easier to make in the 1960s than they are now. Professionals are the ones that consistently make profits these days, which is why I have been hiring an advisor for the past five years to steadily increase my portfolio in anticipation of retirement.
How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financlal future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
Annette Christine Conte'' is the licensed coach I use. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
I can tell this is a hit piece from the banks because they are losing a lot due to these pay now, pay later companies. They want the profits for themselves!
Yep! All the experts were from wells fargo
Did you watch the video? Tell me how would these banks profit from.... Let me check.... having BNPL report data to credit bureaus????
They would benefit by going on an anti BNPL campaign because ideally the customers using BNPL would drift back towards getting banking products like loans or credit cards to cover the costs instead. They don’t care about people being in debt in and of itself, they care that those being are in debt with them because they can cash in on interest. Usually the customers who use BNPL are already economically vulnerable or don’t have great credit history and if banks were already to have these customers, they could charge them interest and fees out the ass and justify it by pulling up their credit score or lack thereof. It’s all a business. They make profits from people being indebted to them
@@rachelesmith3342 Well said. This is exactly why I wrote my comment. You just explained it so well!
I like BNPL, bcuz most of the time u are on installment payments for like 6 months to a year with zero to 5% fees compared to bank loans or credit cards that have a huge interest within a month.
I've been using these for 4 years..
In all honesty it's easier to maintain than a traditional credit line.
The 4 spread out payments are more simplified than a large single payment.
I do gig work full time.. so having that flexibility is helpful.
My portfolio doesn’t just cater to dividend stocks. I hold $VFIAX (S&P 500 index fund) in my Roth IRA and $VTI (Total Stock Market ETF) in my taxable brokerage account. Two of my largest holdings. The individual dividend stock positions all complement the index holdings.
Diversifying with $VFIAX and $VTI is smart. It’s financial independence, not dependency, that truly empowers.
If you lack market knowledge, your best bet is to seek advice or support from a consultant or investing coach. Contacting a consultant may sound simple, but it's how I've managed to stay afloat in the market and increase my portfolio to roughly 60% early this year. It is, in my opinion, the best way to get started in the industry right now.
''LUCIA ALICIA CRUZ'' is the licensed coach I use. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Your contribution to the narrative is fine and good - although...I'm not exactly certain how your "op-ed" is germane to the topic addressed in this video.
@@ThomasFromTN It's a scam they run on every financial video.
Everything has a cool name these days “Phantom Debt”. It sounds so cool
There must be a whole industry making up these names 😄 Now go watch the one about zombie mortgages.
Is "ghost credit" a thing? If not then I want some
Phantom pain due to phantom dept
oooooOOOOOooooo
👻
Like quiet quitting and other dumb things these internet content makers just invent.
Invest judiciously, keep a stop loss figure. Shuffle between debt and equity wherever the ratio goes too off your target. As for the target, I recommend a Ratio like this Debt % should be equal to your age in years. If you are 20, debt is 20%, reset in equity. If the market falls or rises drastically, your debt % will change, which you should rebalance to 20% and bring back equity to 80%. Thus you would have bought low or booked profit depending on if it was a crash or a bull run.
Effective personal finance management is more important than the amount of money saved, regardless of whether income is earned through job or investment. Individuals can seek counsel from a certified financial advisor to optimize financial outcomes, who can provide specialized advice and methods to decrease expenses and maximize income.
I agree, that's the more reason I prefer my day to day investment decisions being guided by an advisor, seeing that their entire skillset is built around going long and short at the same time both employing risk for its asymmetrical upside and laying off risk as a hedge against the inevitable downward turns, coupled with the exclusive information/analysis they have, it's near impossible to not out-perform, been using my advisor for over 2years+ and I've netted over 2.8million.
I think this is something I should do, but I've been stalling for a long time now. I don't really know which firm to work with; I feel they are all the same but it seems you’ve got it all worked out with the firm you work with so i surely wouldn’t mind a recommendation.
There are a handful of experts in the field. I've experimented with a few over the past years, but I've stuck with ‘’Aileen Gertrude Tippy’’ for about five years now, and her performance has been consistently impressive. She’s quite known in her field, look-her up.
Thanks a lot for this suggestion. I needed this myself, I looked her up, and I have sent her an email. I hope she gets back to me soon.
I like the Buy Now Pay Later option. Having 0% APR for a couple hundred dollar purchase is fantastic. They key I found out is to not have more than one BNPL purchase at a time. It's very easy to get in trouble.
You get 0% on a cc purchase for 30 days if you pay your statement balance….
If you can’t do that… you shouldn’t be buying it.
@@InternetUser._ majority of bnpl are set up for ever other week so ever 15 days up to 2 months so that's why people the take it up
My thoughts exactly! I have used BNPL for purchases that I have the money for, but just don't want to spend all of it in one lump sum. As you mentioned, I think the danger is having multiple BNPL AND not having the money/a realistic plan to pay the loan off.
Agreed. Just like with most things you have to know your limits and where to put a hard stop. Don’t let FOMO rule your life. Not worth it in the end.
@@InternetUser._ like with PayPal?
The only “buy now pay later” debt I’d ever incur is for medical expenses. Why seeing a dermatologist once costs over $200 for an insured person is a mystery to me. Sure, I have a high deductible, but why is it still that expensive for an “in-network” provider?? 🙃
I took an x-ray and they quoted me $150 with my insurance. I asked how much it would be for a cash patient. They said $60.
.....Naturally, I just paid as a cash patient and didn't use my insurance. Yeah not sure why it works that way. 🙄
@@Meerkat17 Scamming the insurance so the insurance screws you.
Right?? My 5 minute follow up video appointment with my PCP was $150... Luckily, I have an HSA so I can put everything on that card but I know more people who don't have one or don't qualify for one.
@@Meerkat17 When paying cash (and if it is truly $60 for an x-ray), you're not meeting deductible and stuff. insurance can deny follow-up care because you don't have an x-ray on record, therefore, you might have to do another x-ray. The better question is why the provider you're going to willing to charge $60 for cash, but only willing to settle for $150 with insurance.
You have a high deductible plan, that's why. A part of High Deductible plan is a HSA eligible plan which law requires no coverage until a minimum deductible is met. It's Gov't regulation, also modeled after historical data. if you are paying less, you would be seeing a higher premium. As insurance goes, there are generally 2 groups of people. group A: I'm paying too much for insurance while not using it at all. Group B: I'm paying too much for care even though I have insurance. Insurance model are cost modeled somewhere between A and B, they make about the same amount of money regardless which way they shift toward to... the more group B pays, the less group A complains. the less Group B pays, the more group A pays and complains. just how money works.
If a company tells you something, the one thing you can be 100% sure about is that at least something, if not everything, about it is a lie.
I remember a guy telling me he always carried a balance on his credit card of like $5k because “it helped build his credit score” and he said he was fine with paying a little under $100/mo for that.
Many Americans seem to genuinely hate having money. The US makes record profits just by doing everything to avoid teaching financial literacy
Oh damn he's dumb. He's the worst kind of dumb, too, the kind that thinks they're smart.
That's really strange. There's an ideal "revolving utilization" for a credit card score of, from what I can tell, 2.5% ±2. Assuming he's right with his math he probably has a mid 6 figure credit line. Odd thing is that we are always running about 3% with no static ballance. I can't see paying $1,000/yr ($1,200 less maybe $200 from the 1099 INT gains) just to nail the sweet spot.
CORRECTION: I believe they are misusing the term "layaway" in this story. Layaway refers to an arrangement where a customer requests a retailer to hold an item or items for a predetermined amount of time until the full purchase price is paid. Typically, the customer pays a deposit and makes scheduled payments over time. Once the total cost is paid, the customer receives the item. If the customer does not complete the payments, they forfeit the deposit used to hold the item. This piece misleads viewers into thinking that layaway allows a consumer to take the item/items before fully paying for them. (4:12)
This was call Lay-A-Way back in the day. The big difference was there was NO interest. It was usually something l$125 bucks or less. I did it when I bought a pair of Jordan 5s in 1990.
Possibly the bigger difference is that with layaway, you didn't get the stuff until you paid in full.
@@arh1234 Very fair point. Actually its a huge one that I missed like a goof. Thanks for pointing that out!
Most of the buy now pay later methods don't charge interest. They are broken into 4 payments 0% APR.
I miss those days!
@@arh1234Sometimes you did though. It wasn't uncommon for appliances to be a buy here pay here type of situation where you got to take it home first and come back for payments but wasn't formal financing.
Or as I'd see my parents do they'd pay with post dated checks. Meaning they'd leave 3-4 checks totalling up to the full cost of the item with the agreement the store would deposit them a month apart,
This really isn't anything new expect for the fact that it's centralized with one or two services.
This whole 'phantom debt' issue with BNPL is way overblown. The $2 trillion revolving debt from credit cards is a way bigger problem than something that's 1/1000th of the size. Affirm doesn’t even charge late fees, so there's no revolving debt problem like with credit cards. And seriously, if people couldn’t pay back, why are there so many BNPL companies making money, even without late fees?
Yes, this!! This isn't even a new thing! Layaways and rent a center were way more problematic!
@@aka_pierre Yeah and in the 80's it wasn't uncommon to pay for things with post-dated checks.
QVC basically invented this version of it too because for mail order there is a lag between ordering and getting it so biweekly payments made sense.
The problem is that interest is accrued and charged if the full balance is not paid by the end of the loan.
The thing is the Banks are the ones loaning money to the BNPL companies, and they're getting very nervous about being repaid because quite a few of them are reporting very concerning rates of failure to pay, while others are clearly cooking their books. So the banks are afraid the BNPL companies are going to go bankrupt and leave them with huge losses on their loan books.
@@chcknball185 This is the case for credit cards, but not for BNPLs like Affirm. They never charge late fees if you have the entire comment lol
I feel this is only a problem for big banks because they're making less on credit card interest. As a consumer, I'm going to pick the interest-free option that makes sure it's paid off within 3 months. I'm not going to stick it on an expensive credit card that get stuck on there for months/years at a time.
Some rich dude "I have billions and never have to worry about money for the next 1,000 years. But i want more and to get it i must take from the poor" truly a psychopathic mindset.
Uh huh. Let me tell you what I heard…
There is a well-regulated system for optimizing loan structures by making sure economically-disadvantaged consumers stay dependent on the system so they are forced to continue making interest payments. But now, there is another system these consumers can use that does not impact their credit score (i.e. the tool being used to keep them in a cycle of high interest payments), and they are using it to purchase things that they would normally purchase using the high interest system.
So now, the people who make money off the high-interest system are trying to force regulations on the no-interest system under the guise of consumer protection (i.e. We’re just looking out for your best interest. We don’t want you to drown in debt). That argument would fly if the high-interest system didn’t maximize debt for consumers. But Newsflash: people who are using Buy-Now-Pay-Later loans are already drowning in debt. They just aren’t trying to tread water with a weighted vest on like they are in the traditional credit rating system.
If you’re upset that people have found a loophole to your very lucrative system of keeping people in enough debt to generate profits for the wealthy, just say that.
Yeah I heard that too. They aren't going to get ppl to accept their $300 limit with a $125/yr annual fee and 30% interest credit cards anymore.
They are looking to Europe and seeing young people not even using credit cards at all and it worries them
You nailed this one!!!
This. Exactly.
Yup! Screw em. I rather pay for a 400 purchase in 4 100 dollar payments than giving the credit card company a chance at getting me to pay them 20 percent or even more in interest.
No that's not what they said at all. The whole video is all about the loans aren't reported so economists have a murky view on the true health of the economics of America. Also loan structures don't force anyone to do anything. People choose to sign on the dotted line. In the age of the internet people are choosing to be uneducated on the loans they sign up form. These "people" you say that are forcing regulation on BNPL aren't force an interest system. They are forcing them to report data to agencies. They aren't profiting.
Don't get me wrong I'm a pretty skeptical person, but not everything is some conspiracy theory. Trust me, we DO NOT want unregulated lending. It's how 2008 happened. Your comments makes me wonder how much education you have in finance. If you are uneducated on a topic, that's ok, I was too at one point. But when I was uneducated, I made sure to keep my thoughts to myself.
Something that I noticed about 100% of the poor people homes I used to go into when I was volunteering with a charity: always ALWAYS an enormous TV. Always a clutter of cheap, useless stuff like throw pillows, stuffed animals, resin statues of sparkly unicorns, lava lamps, "collectible" Barbies still in boxes, ticky-tacky stuff like that. So when they tell you this phantom debt affects "the most vulnerable," they're right. It's affecting the people most vulnerable to marketing ploys to buy tacky sh×× they don't need. It's affecting the dumb people, in other words. Don't be dumb, control your impulses, don't buy stuff that has no lasting purpose, and live within your means, and you won't be vulnerable.
don't buy stuff that has no lasting purpose.....💯💯💯Agree
So that's the "Phantom tax" the kids are rambling all about
Bruh 🥶 😂😂
Exactly
Fanum
not at all 😂
fanum :D :D
The only thing better than these videos from CNBC is watching the stock video clips they use for filler.
Careful Jon, you are showing your economics and financial ignorance,
The interviews that look like employees trapped in the storage room add to the credibility
No One makes you buy crap you don't need. Be an adult be responsible.
stop spending on GARBAGE that you DON'T NEED!!!!!!!
You don't like keeping up with the Joneses? 🤔
The lady who was working from the front door's hallway is smart. People who don't buy a bigger home (more $$$) to have another bedroom to conduct business have saved the money. Good luck to us all! 😊
This is absolutely terrifying. Credit brokers cant know 100% of my extended credit if a phantom were to run amuck.
Off the books debt! The horror!
We need a new word for this. Phantom debt historically meant bill collectors making bad faith collection calls on debt that they knew was past the statute of limitations. This is confusing to name 2 concepts the same thing.
And that type was exactly what I expected to get info about.
Smh at these supposed experienced financial talking heads somehow not knowing this term is for a long running problem child in the consumer finance arena. 😑🤦
This is a very smart option for people that understand that right now money is worth less in the future than right now - invest what you didnt pay in full on. Of course, this is not at all who they are hoping use this ... its those that will default and get fees. But you CAN benefit from this if you are responsible.
You get it
My definition of phantom debt has nothing to do with buy now, pay later. I define phantom debt as government spending that is unaccounted for, whether it's on a local, state, or federal level.
I'm too embarrassed to select that option, rather not buy it if I can't pay on the spot.
Debt! Debt! Debt! And more debt!
Imagine if there was a real market based on what consumers actually earned and saved. 🤔
To put it simply because big banks are losing business with these buy now pay later loans, it is now a problem. Correct??
No, because people are not paying and continue to accrue more phantom debt, which is just a fancy word for debt
@@g.t.richardson6311 well with or without these buy now pay later loans people will still acrue debt and clearly big babks want these debts for interest, and if they get enough default they can ask for a bailout. So again this is just big banks crying that they are losing their share
@@g.t.richardson6311in the video they said less than 2% are defaulted though.
@@g.t.richardson6311 its a new industry that’s booming and other companies are gonna start jump
On to get a piece of the pie.
@@korigocrazy2262 2% isn’t that bad
I missed that
This is a massive problem, I can’t tell you how many women my age (early 30/s) are using these platforms and then get overwhelmed by BNPL on multiple items.
I’m in the same age bracket and I agree!
same thing with gen z, everyone is using it, along with accumulating credit card debt as well
I've used them before but not anymore. I'm personally working on rebuilding my credit though. Even if I wanted to get one of these loans they wouldn't accept me anyway.
The credit card companies are upset since they're losing money. Why they act as if they are concerned about consumers.
Layaway but the product is provided immediately? No waiting until the full bill is paid. 🤔
Layaway is a big cost for the retailer in having to hold inventory and take payments etc.
@@NatashaEstrada Yes. I worked in a layaway department once at a clothing store. People would put $300 ($900 in today's dollars) of new clothes that we just got in for the season and cancel most of it before the layaway period expired, maybe buying $20 or $30 of it. By then it was out of season and needed to be marked down.
They don't know what layaway is. You don't get the item until it's paid.
I used to handle returns ar KMart, which was linked to the layaway department. I remember when a layaway item had to go back on the shelf, sometimes the person who originally requested the layaway would get super stressed that the item went back on the shelf, and then become super releived that the item was still available. I could tell that the customer had somehow been fooled into perceiving not-real scarcity. People need to struggle against their scarcity mentality, if we want to get a leg up against corporate dominance.
the biggest problem is that wages have not kept up with inflation for decades.
Buy now pay later means your economy is hurting
No it doesn’t, it means people are buying things they don’t need or can’t afford.
@@chrishaddad5362 Both can be true. People do spend unnecessarily and take on absurd debt, but also the economy and inflationary pressures are crushing the lower class who don't own assets while the rich with assets have never been better off.
Disagree - you can keep your money paying you returns while you are making small payments for big ticket items
@@dbased1915 I've never seen an Afterpay option at a gas station or at a grocery store.
This is people buying garbage they don't need. Not everything is a class battle. Most things are just people behaving foolishly.
@@BTrain-is8chnow they have a card, which is essentially cc, you input any store you want and apply. It gets approved in seconds and you hood to pay
As an old guy who has only incurred debt twice in my life - one home mortgage and one vehicle loan, I find it puzzling why anyone would go into debt to purchase anything which was not absolutely essential especially with such high interest rates.
Because Credit analysts and agencies are so transparent about their policies and the 3 credit score keepers are so honest about their algorithim and will allow people to grow credit ...its a corrupt system all around. I can't get a job bc of my credit issues or a place to rent because the big 3 say I have bad credit because they don't see that inflated fed rate impact on the credit card is not my doing (22% interest rate became 29% when fed rate went up).
@DavidGreg-mc2lv I sincerely doubt higher power is something to help one's credit ...you know Big Bang and all
Haha remember when a certain credit rating agency leaked all of our personal info to a hacker and we got a $5 payout? 🤪
@@Ella-g2m exactly!!
Sounds like this is a way for consumers and retailers to bypass the credit industry to do transactions on their own terms. This is a good thing
Read: credit issuers are mad they can't accurately assess peoples' creditworthiness. It also threatens the viability/usability/reliability/relevance of FICO and the credit reporting agencies, so you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be required to be reported somehow sooner rather than later.
Took my way too long to find a comment with someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Not peddling some conspiracy theory on "big banks"
@@Nonsense116 Lol. Yet, in a sense, my comment hints at that. These BNPL companies have done an end-run around the effective lock on credit and lending that the "traditional" financial sector has enjoyed for a long time. Now, there exists this small option for folks for whom the existing system doesn't work.
The existing credit rating system probably doesn't want its apple cart tipped. And so lenders want to see this "phantom debt" on credit reports, but FICO and reporting agencies probably don't want to have to incorporate that data into their scoring algorithms (they've resisted changes in the past). That would be a win for lenders, but a loss for borrowers (if the default rates of BNPL loans presented in the story are accurate).
The conspiracy theorist in me tends to think that big banks want the credit score to reflect only that activity that occurs within the "traditional" lending industry (i.e. the industry they largely control) in order to pressure the common folk to participate in *their* system. That, I think, is one of the reasons why paying utility bills on time, paying cell phone bills on time, and debit card / checking account activity aren't included in the thing that is supposed to represent -- at least in some sense -- how well you manage your finances.
Do we need more regulation to protect people from themselves? If you can't afford it, don't buy it. There are millions of people wanting to take your money, it will never stop.
People in North America need to learn how to spend what they truly have - to not spend availing any type of credit. Shocks me how people here in Canada and the US talk about affordability - they mean being able to 'afford' payments on debt, and being able to qualify for debt. There is simply no savings culture. And wages are incredibly low for the livings costs. And everyone seems to be bought in to the concept of 'credit scores' which really ought to be laughed at. Shocking!
i'm stunned too. they live beyond their mean!
You cant buy a car or house without a credit score. Unless of course you are a millionaire and can hand over a 600k dollar cheque. No normal people can do that.
@@ADobbin1 That is the point. The system should ensure that folks have enough money with which to afford a home / vehicle. Not a loan. The credit score should aim at reflecting an individual’s liquidity/wealth; Instead of the person’s ability to ‘afford’ a loan.
@@hs1296 It does reflect liquidity and wealth. It is based on how big a loan your income can support and whether or not and how often you have missed payments in the past.
@@ADobbin1 lol 😂 nice
Can’t afford it, don’t buy it. That simple. Another real problem is people’s addictions to shopping.
The key is to only spend what you have.
If you don’t have the money in which to purchase the item, then don’t buy it.
This is excluding vehicle repairs, house repairs, etc.
I’m speaking of discretionary spending.
Easier said then done, America loves having people fall into debt due to materialistic things.
I use buy now and pay later whenever I buy a home.
I left to Germany for a month on a work assignment. I got back to the US and am shocked at how much the food prices have risen.
If you can't afford it, don't buy it!
For your average consumer this doesnt seem like an actual problem. BNPL defaulting doesnt affect your credit score. If you cant afford a BNPL loan just stop. This however is a massive issue for any industry who uses credit scores, and regulations will only come from their whinning.
Why do they care??? It's not like they are going to do anything to help people!!!
4:25 in lay away you did not pick up the item until you paid it off. My mom used to use layaway.
Those who survived the hosing crash, stopped living beyond their means, started saving money and used cards only in emergencies. Banks started running advisements against savings because they were losing interest on debt in the terms of millions. Don't incurr debt of any kind unless its an emergency.
Another potential collapse looms in that market segment, likely leaving taxpayers as the losers. It's hard to believe this situation persists when most consumers are already financially exhausted.
The problem is that the average consumer is woefully lacking in managing their finances.
Totally ignored smart consumers who use BNPL to control cashflow on large purchases so to keep savings in interest bearing accounts for longer.
Super important with today's interest rates!!!
I did it once a few years ago when buying a rare book. Three monthly payments with no interest was nice. But I can see how some can get trapped in it like a payday loan.
This report is so biased towards credit card companies its ridiculous. I actually find a good thing that people who use BNPL can circumvent the credit requirements of traditional debt
I agree. Especially a person that is struggling to get a loan. There is responsible consumers out there with no credit to bad credit. This gives them the opportunity to purchase something they can pay off later.
My neighbor loves "buy now, pay later." She can easily pay in full, but she takes huge emotional pleasure in not paying for things she takes home and making vendors wait. It's perfectly legit, so whatever floats her boat, but it's the exact opposite of my comfort, which comes from having no debt. Maybe a lot of the phantom debt is just due to that type of personality that gets a thrill from not paying for a while.
She's not making vendors wait. She is making the bank wait. The vendors get paid by the bank.
@@cameronrussell8409 That's fascinating. They aren't both waiting? You think the bank hands over payment in full to the vendor and later is made whole by my neighbor's monthly payments, without interest? That seems very unbanklike.
And if that were the case, I would think banks would have a precise bead on phantom debt, because it would be real debt to them.
Credit Score is scam anyways
I love how this is framed not as a problem of affordability, but rather a problem of not being able to punish consumers by charging them more interest when they are already overburdened.
I use buy now pay later here in there. It's convenient if used right. But then again I have a stable income so there's no issues when the payments hit every couple weeks. That being said I currently have no buy now pay later payments pending at this time. ☺️
Making phantom payments to a phantom bank cost me a phantom arm and a phantom leg. A constant phantom pain in my phantom bottom.
The golden rule of consumerism should be "If you can't afford it you don't need it" Trying to keep up with the Jones' for status symbolism or needing the latest and the greatest is a fast track to destitution. Debt is like body fat, it's easy to acquire but very difficult to get rid of.
If you're someone who pays off their credit card on time like you should, NOT splitting payments at 0% is objectively stupid.
The scratch-whine sound effect halfway through the video had me pausing to check if there were wasps in my room. What a strange artistic choice.
Who could've guessed when financial literacy isn't taught in school and corporations give people more and more access to money to create debt, their would be a problem. 🤔
My BNPL from PayPal absolutely shows up in my credit score lol. Same with Amazon and B&H. None of my BNPL is hidden :'(.
I took out a loan for school.....and that's it. Never made payments on any other debt in my life.
I've avoided these like the plague.. if I can't afford it I don't buy it
I’m not gonna say buy now pay later is a good thing but after a year of short contract jobs it’s been the reason my husband and I have been able to buy food on 4-5 occasions in the last year.
We don’t overspend but when one person is making 60k and the other is without a job for the next couple weeks, you have to do what you have to do.
I remember taking one when buying a couch from Ashley. I thought how hard it could be. Horrible horrible mistake. Never again.
Layaway went away because stores wanted you chained to their store credit card. Less people were in the debt we see today.
that Wells Fargo analyst is mad on the company's behalf because the multi installment payment option is cutting into their credit card transaction volume. all of the consumer credit machine is predatory, only buy stuff you can pay for in cash, prioritize needs, not the wants, and don't lets wants become "needs" in your head, no matter what the sales pitch trys to convince you of.
edit: a Wells Fargo employee describing poor regulations is hilarious given their track record of past actions.
My first thought, exactly, as soon as I saw these "trusted" analysts were from the most crooked bank in U.S. history still allowed to operate.
This is a brilliant plan. The poors who are materialistic can’t help themselves. Imagine paying for a $30 shein clothing item in installments. How do I invest in these companies??
I don't understand... if these lenders aren't creating coercive environment where consumers get pressured into taking out such loans, why is the onus on the lenders when they're only allowing for easy, 0% interest loans? It is the Consumers who should watch where they spend money. Taking away this mechanism is like taking away loans like credit card or mortgage just because few people have trouble paying them off. It's unbelievable how everything becomes about blaming the big bad corporations, when it is a few consumers who are not exercising restraint. Soon enough, consumers' credit scores will prevent them purchasing via this mechanism if they are irresponsible. Others shouldn't get their options limited just because a few consumers can't be trusted with payment options.
I get where you coming from. To me it's still a bit "un-sporting" since we have a lot of really ignorant people with stagnant work skills. Some were lousy at high-school history, math and finance and will never get it. Among some populations there's even a certain pride in being ignorant of core life skills. I once walked with some friends to get our paychecks cashed and while I felt robbed they were perfectly happy donating a good portion of their check as if it was a charity. It's not as negligent as running a lottery but not exactly squeaky clean, in my opinion.
@@antilogism you’re not wrong to want a segment of consumers, namely the less sophisticated and vulnerable ones, protected from predatory practices. But like we shouldn’t outlaw kitchen knives just bc some clumsy adults hurt themselves at times, we can’t limit these mechanisms that promote commerce, which in turn helps economy grow and develop and create jobs. I’m not against creating rules to prevent total ruin of an individual but we also can’t bring down the average just to protect a few at the bottom
Can't afford now, try to pay for it later.
The fact this exist just speaks more to irresponsible spending by people. Regulating bad habits seems to be the play.
These are brilliant companies to invest in. Time to invest!
Broke Now I can’t Pay Later Either is a worldwide pandemic, as this is happening in many countries around the world including USA.
Yeah, I think I saw a similar video last year about Singapore... not just a USA issue.
The rise of digital payments make it simple to just split the cost over a number of months, which leads to overspending.
It's been with us in the US since the 1930s (maybe earlier) but it's way easier than ever before and includes tiny purchases.
Lay-Away was better, and is better, you don't get the product untill, you have it paid for, which gives you a good physcial goal to work toward!!!!!!!
“Credit reports are objective”
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
That's how yk this argument is crap.
Same concept as buying real estate, car, and education? Buying things and not paying the full amount but in installments resulting in mortgage loans, auto loans, and student loans, respectively. Now it just goes to "cheaper" things like food, gadgets, and household items.
Perhaps, and I mean perhaps, we should be teaching kids responsible spending, budgeting, and financially responsible behavior in school. I know, we stopped doing that since they took out account budgeting from home economics (and took out these classes all together), but maybe we should bring these back and make them required.
that'll never happen as long as the objective of the education system is to create a consumer workforce trained to follow orders
No that’s bad for the economy, how will corporations get you to spend all your money if you’re too busy saving?
Doing so would be educating the populace that they have to take a decrease in quality of life. How long would put up with living with multiple roommates just to keep rent affordable?
I think Pay in 4 is probably more financially responsible than putting it on a credit card since the installation loan demands that it's all paid within 6 weeks with 25% being paid up front and 25% every 2 weeks.
You can do all kinds of financial shenanigans with credit cards.
Pay in 4 is very popular in Europe and I don't see it going anywhere. I think the younger generation is just rejecting traditional banking products.
@@NatashaEstrada I see it as a way for businesses to try to capture more customers. They know there are people who can't afford their product but still want to be able to sell to them.
"Proud to be an American! Where at least I know my information is free!" 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇸
The amount of payment plans for once, one time payment things have jumped insanely. I don't remember there being this many people paying off concerts months later as opposed to buying the dang ticket once and being done with it. Granted we know concerts have become ultra inflated, but uhh if it takes me 5 months to pay off a show I'll go ahead and hard pass
I put a concert ticket on a pay later option because the artist announced the dates on a day when I didn’t have the ticket money free to spend. It’s not that I couldn’t afford to just pay for the ticket, it just made it easier for me without having to make a bunch of corresponding sacrifices in other areas.
@empiresSR ok, listen to yourself for a minute. I didn't have money to spend cause I had more pressing issues that needed attention. If 30 bucks difference is gonna put you in strange waters for a few months, you might wanna focus on that than spending 200 on a show. Iam not trying to sound dickish, iam just saying concert shows are way overpriced and feeding into it is just gonna make it worse.
A better title is How Phantom Debt is haunting lending banks and regulators. The debt is not “phantom” to the consumer falling behind and getting bills.