Let me clear a couple things up about this video. I'm not trying to say that Homura is by any means a bad person, just not a good one. While it's true that she does care about the other characters besides Madoka, it's always an afterthought, and when things go poorly with them, she's quick to recover, even before she becomes the jaded warrior that people use as an excuse, like when Mami dies in the first timeline, or when she kills Oktavia. There's a lot more I could have said in this video but it was already getting long and I wanted to keep the topic focused, but maybe I can get into that sort of thing some other time.
I don't see why prioritizing Madoka's life over the others makes Homura less of a good person, considering that any one of us in real life would do the same thing for our loved ones. It's easy to sit back and say that Homura should have tried harder for the others, but anyone with real life experience should know that things tend not to work out that way more than they do. Sometimes life just forces you to choose, and that's the situation that Homura was forced into. The fact of the matter is, the character dynamics don't allow Homura to save everybody. The moment Homura starts acting against Kyubey in any form is the moment she gets on Mami's bad side, and being on Mami's bad side means being on Sayaka's bad side. Kyubey is a master of using people's emotions against them, so the very fact that Homura wants to keep it away from Madoka, it's biggest target in the history of humankind, means that Kyubey will turn Mami against her. Who will Mami trust in this scenario? Will she trust Kyubey, who has been her sole companion for an unknown amount of time, or will she trust Homura, who she has never heard of and doesn't hold the same values that Mami holds so dear. From there we go to Sayaka. Sayaka's first impression of Homura was not a good one, since she was hunting a cute and seemingly harmless animal and nearly got her best friend caught up in it as well. Of course, Mami comes swooping in to save the day and Sayaka from then on idolizes her as a "hero of justice". Who is Sayaka going to trust more, the villain that hurts harmless and innocent animals for no reason, or the hero of justice that she wants to emulate? Add into that just how hard headed Sayaka is about everything and there's just no way for those two to get along. Kyoko is a wild card, and the only one that doesn't fully trust Kyubey. The problem is that once Sayaka gets to her, she becomes the chink in Kyoko's armor that Kyubey can exploit. Madoka is Homura's only in to the rest of the cast since she is willing to look past Homura's cold exterior and see the person underneath. Unfortunately, Mami is a veteran magical girl and isn't likely to listen to what Madoka has to say anytime soon, and Sayaka is too rigid in her hero complex to listen to what Madoka has to say about a villain like Homura. Mami and Kyouko are already beyond saving since they're already magical girls before the start of Homura's loops, so the absolute best she could manage with them is to get them through the battle with Walpurgisnacht, and that is under the huge assumption that she can somehow prevent Kyubey from turning Mami against her and luring Kyouko to her death through Sayaka. The plot of this series is essentially one big chess match between Homura and Kyubey. The problem is that said chess game is vastly unbalanced. Kyubey is a player with a perspective of the entire board, and he holds multiple pieces that he can utilize in various ways. On the other hand, Homura is a player that is at the same time a piece on the board. She only has a king in the form of Madoka and herself as a queen. Being that Homura is a piece on the board she also has a more limited perspective of the battlefield, so while she is forced to deal with one situation Kyubey can be off maneuvering other pieces elsewhere. The only advantages that Homura actually has here are her time stop power that Kyubey knows nothing about, the fact that she can reset the board and that she has a limited understanding of her opponent's tactics. These are all outweighed by Kyubey's millenia of knowledge about humans, its much greater intellect and its broader perspective and ability to be in multiple places at once. To sum it all up, Homura did the best she could with the situation she was given, and to fault her for prioritizing Madoka over the others is pretty unfair, especially once you look at the broader perspective and see everything she's up against. With all that said, what Homura actions at the end of Rebellion, while definitely staying true to her motivations and character, are not quite so justifiable. By messing with the law of the cycle, Homura has taken things to a scale that involves all magical girls, meaning that this isn't just about her and Madoka anymore. Sure, as Homura said she only took a piece of the law of the cycle, but there's no way of knowing what the repercussions of that could be. It's like saying that a flea bite could never kill a person, but fleas can deliver some pretty nasty diseases through their bites. While Homura's intentions for Madoka in Rebellion may have been for the best, that doesn't change the fact that her actions were shortsighted at best and negligent at worst. That doesn't make her a bad person though, it makes her human, and humans tend to do things to hurt the people closest to them. Unfortunately, in this case Homura is messing with forces she may well not fully understand, and the cost could be greater than what she is able to pay.
@@darkprinc979 I really enjoy you're perspective of things. One, you're able to come to grips that Homura isn't at fault, and the odds were against her. Two, Dispite what i previously said, your also able to admit Homura has done something rather unthinkable. And there will be consequences.
Yes, I think that having a balanced perspective is important. I'll admit that for a while I was in the "Homura did nothing wrong" camp, but after giving the situation more thorough consideration I had to admit that yes, Homura did do some things wrong. It's interesting because the very parts of her character that enabled her to struggle through the events of the series are what also caused her to fall so low in Rebellion, or in other words her greatest strengths became her greatest weaknesses.
@@darkprinc979 "Did some things wrong" I know when people use tye quotation marks, they usually try to prove something the other party said wrong. But, note im not doing that. Anyway, it's just funny. I recentlt read a page about a number of things homura did wrong in the final timeline. Dispite use not knowing what homura did in every single timeline, this person boiled it down fairly well. But I'll be boil it down. 1: Her not confining/trusting in the other girls more. This one problem, could of solved quite a few things. Like, not having to constantly butt heads or go against them, having a better chance at beating Walspurg, and possible having a better relationship with Madoka because of this. I know Homura has basically given up on trying to save everyone. But, honestly, she doesn't need to. I always believed there's a possible way Homura could of prevented everyone's death, while Madoka keeps out of the magical girl business. And yet, she doesn't have to be buddy buddy with everyone. Since Homura sucks at social skills. And 2: Homura, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU TELL KYUUBY THAT!? Homura just had to run her mouth about Madoka. Because she couldn't believe her hazy memories, this is even further proven in the 'Rave Arc' manga. She needed reassurment, so, why go to the backstabbing demon!? Why not Mami or Koyoko!? FUCK HOMURA. As much as the whole devil Homura thing could of been prevented, i personally think this was faith, an inescapably destiny at work. As, Homura's wish was never fulfilled. But, still...dammit... But, yeah. That's just what i wanted to say. The article was pretty good.
So until SHAFT finally make that damn sequel ( hopefully another series instead of a 4th movie, so they can add the other magical girls from the spin off manga & Magia Record & flesh them all out) where Homura either redeems herself ( which is very unlikely) or gets punished for her actions ( which THIS one is very likely) Homura is A selfish, hypocritical unlikable bitch who needs to be burned at the stake and rot in hell for all eternity!
11:20 She becomes a "demon" because her and Madoka's wish conflict with each other. She can't protect Madoka if Madoka is a god, thus her wish can't be fulfilled as long as Madoka is a god. Madoka specifically wished for witches to be eradicated, meaning that when all witches have been erased, her wish is fulfilled. Homura is the last witch. Unlike other magical girls though, Homura's wish is incompatible with the law of cycles. If she disappears after being a witch, she can no longer protect Madoka. Thus, to fulfill Homura's wish, the universe needed to be rewritten again, and Homura had to become an entity that was neither witch nor human but just as powerful as Madoka.
I love mostly villainous and rude characters but I honestly hate Homura, you don't have to be a good person to be interesting but Homura isn't really likeable.
People arguing over whether the girls's wishes were selfish or not: you have to learn to distinguish among what the character *thought* she wanted, what the character *actually* wanted, and what the character *needed* at that point. Those three things aren't the same.
Exactly people are calling Mami selfish because she wanted to survive a car crash like what??? She needed to survive her parents were already past tense and Kyubey probably wouldn't let Mami save them.
@lorenzomeulli750 and even if it WERE selfish, (which it is not) these girls are 14 when Kyubey picks them. 14 year old girls are not gonna pick "end world hunger" instead of "save me from this car crash" or "heal my crush so he can play violin" or "let me go back and meet my best friend again, give me strength to protect her" Most girls wishes are inherently selfish but Mami was protecting herself and a representation of the demon Mephistopheles made a Faustian deal for her soul and took advantage of a young girl.
@@KoshkiBlin04 the madoka in homura's world is, as far as i understand it, the real madoka, the same way that sayaka and co are the same people. she just separated what made madoka "madoka" from her godly power
Idk if this really matters but I also noticed she’s the only one that uses actual realistic modern weapons while the other girls uses romanticized version of their weapons to fight
Well... Those aren't "realistic weapons", they're just real weapons. Homura's true weapon is that shield with the sand clock. Unlike Mami, Sayaka or Kyoko, she can't summon magic weapons like swords or lances, so she just stealth all those weapons from some criminal bands and store a large number in her shield- PD: Sorry my engrish-
SnKanon You are correct, but on a meta level Malcolm is right too. Her using real weapons makes sense in-universe, but it does also highlight to the audience that she's a much more grimdark character than the other magical girls. It's likely that the production team that made the series intentionally gave her a magical shied that forced her to use real guns and explosives when fighting.
@@helenanilsson5666 Mmm... I'm not sure about that. She could chose to fight with "normal" weapons (a sword, a baseball bate, anything) because when you can stop the time, it doesn't really matter your weapon, just efficience. The reason she chose guns it was because she was forbidden from using explosives from the other girls because they said it was dangerous. And the reason she chose explosives it was because she's weak. She has a weak body complex and that's all. Mami uses fire weapons too, and we know she can make almost everything with her ribbons, even modern weapons or a tank, but she just don't like them- Sorry, I just think you're overthinking this matter-
@@SnKanon In a series as ripe with symbolism as PMMM? Unlikely. I think Malcolm and Helena have hit the nail on the head. What you're describing is the in-universe justification for a creative decision. Same as how Sayaka's swords and outfit are clearly a visual representation of her idealism and "knight in shining armor" illusion, Homura being the only one having to rely on real weapons and then using actual firearms stolen from the military is a nice symbolic contrast between both her awareness of their actual reality (compared to the idealised worldview of the other girls, who never knew the full truth about the cycle) and the power and strength of her resolution. Homura getting a shield that she uses to manipulate time, instead of a normal weapon and having the travelling be just a function of her wish, or having it be a secondary power, or located in something else on her, was a decision someone designing and writing these characters made. Making her use real military firearms in-universe is her trying to be useful, but from the creative standpoint of the people inventing this character and her entire story? It's a very clear contrast between her and all the other girls.
@@irisa198 Well... That's your point of view. Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not saying you're right either. You could be wrong. I myself could be wrong. The entire fandom could be wrong. We can't say for sure that one thing is true o false just by our interpretations because PMMM can be analized in a lot of ways (Whats more, it was done already). For me, I don't think that part is true, just that-
yes. also as a critical parody of the magical girl genre, i’m so glad that homura exists, and her character arch in rebellion happened. this series demonstrate the issues with romantic/platonic infatuation with people and flaws with Idealizing “self sacrifice” that often get portrayed as “noble characteristics” in normal shows of this genre. instead of telling young girls “give yourself completely to your ideals and the people you love and everything will work out” like most other shows, this one says “please consider how you really feel and what you need, and realize that they won’t always line up with the people you love nor your ideals”
Thank you for saying this. It's extremely important. Being "noble and selfless" is pushed as the only legitimate approach to things - when in many [if nor most] cases, it's really just extremely self-destructive.
It's been a while since this comment was made, but I just wanted to say thank you, because it reminded me again how I myself probably idealize self sacrifice too much too.
And everyone else who worked on it, madoka as Urobuchi said isn't just his work. Heck he only made the basic draft of rebellion and let everyone else on the team go nuts with the symbolism
Most of it is based off of the works of and surrounding Goethe. Kyube is Mephistophiles from Goethe's Faust. Sayaka is the little mermaid from The Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Anderson. Her witch is even named after a poet who admired Goethe but that Goethe thought very little of. Fruede loved Goethe and quoted him often and the little chant you hear the familiars saying "fort, da, fort, da" is a game that Frued came up with for his toddler grandson and means here, gone, here, gone. The runes you see all over episodes actually translate to lines from Goethe's Faust meant to harken back to the Faustian deal made with Kyube. Madoka is supposed to be Gretchen, and Homura is Faust their meeting ultimately leading to the others ruin. Madokas witch is literally named after Gretchen. I could go on but I won't
@@patrickobrien6251 for your information the symbolism was entirely inserted by the rest of the studio during production but the original draft was not based on goethe's faust. this was said by urobuchi himself; it was done after the fact by the staff. goethe was not an influence on the conception of the anime.
it's only a human nature to experience the "decay effect" on your personality if you repeat something way too much, at some point you start losing track of what you originally wanted and keep doing the same thing as if you were a robot, this is clearly noticeable with Homura as she starts to become colder the more she repeats the same events, and although her main objective was to live with Madoka happily ever after, she acted cold toward her through the first arc despite the fact that she had an endless amount of time to spend with her best friend. what i am trying to say that every human has sanity, and simply going beyond it's limit will eventually turns you into something else, and that doesn't make you a bad person.
Actually, Homura somehow reminds me of the Servant Emiya from Fate Stay Night. He first has the ideal of being a Hero of Justice and saving everyone, going so far as to make a contract with a higher existence Alaya. After his death he then works as a counter guardian to ‚save humanity‘ but that just means he kills all people throughout human history that threaten the existence of humanity. So he is in a constant cycle of being killing. After a few millenia he turns to become sarcastic cynical etc. Just like Homura, he is caught in an endless cycle of losing the things important to him.
I think the real reason Homura suddenly became so powerful is because her soul gem wasn't tainted with despair. The one thing I noticed about Homura is that in the new timeline where Madoka is a god nothing causes her despair. Pain is pleasure for her. Being hurt is bliss. Using her magic is a gift. Each of these different things will lead her to the one place she dreams to be again: With Madoka. There's no despair in Homura's heart. Once Madoka became a god all semblance of that was destroyed. She didn't randomly receive immense power. Her soul gem became tainted with something that was never accounted for and in turn became overloaded and morphed into something completely new. Something completely different. Her immense power is at the fault of no one except the incubators. They designed the soul gem with two things in mind; happiness and sadness. Hope and despair. They're creatures who lack emotion and as we've been shown time and time again everyone Kyuubey interacts with is replaceable. Because of that they had no comprehension for the idea of 'love'. There was never a thought in their minds that soul gems could be tainted with anything other than despair. Homura's progression was set in stone when Madoka made that wish. Once Madoka became a god there was no logical progression except what was unfolded. Not to mention a tainted soul gem messes with a magical girl. Sayaka straight up murdered two dudes on a train for talking about using their girlfriends because her soul gem was tainted with despair. She wasn't thinking logically and acted out of impulse. Homura ripped Madoka from godhood on impulse. She forced her into a universe where she shouldn't belong without thinking at all. Of course the timeline reset; it was being forced to insert someone who had previously been removed. And her being in control honestly just seems like the way the timelines handle resets. Whoever brings it on ends up in control. Madoka was in control the first time because her wish changed everything. Homura was in control the second time because her actions changed everything. Apologies for the small essay. This is my favorite series and I have invested hundreds of hours into speculation and explanations for things. Your video did a wonderful job explaining her progression as a character. It's nice to see others agreeing that Rebellion is a good movie. I hope they make a fourth movie to give us a much more concrete resolution on the series. Fantastic job!
I think if the incubators wnet through with their thoughts they could have easyly foreseen something like Homura happening. Kyubei stated that the emotions of humans (as impossible to understand they are) yield the power to overcome entropy. The incubators just figured that hope and dispair was the pair of opposite emotions that yielded the highest energy output and left it at that. The Soulgem is just a hardened physical manifestation of the soul - the thing that feels emotions. All of them. Spending a bit (or lot) of academic thought on it, and they might have realized, that it must be possible to taint the gems with things different from dispair, transforming magical girls into something different than witches. Thinking about that, it'S possible they might decide to start experiments when they get the idea. The law of cycles fucked thing up and enabled them to come up with the hypothesis Magical girls can turn into witches and set up an experiment that was able to test that. The fact that incubators are able to isolate a Soulgem from the law of cycles means that Madokas power is in fact pretty limited too. Following that train of though, I start to feel that Homura breaking out of containment, removing a part of the law of cycles and create a new world might be better in the long run.
i agree except for homura impulsively removing madoka from being a goddess. when she is a witch, she’s trying to kill herself inside the labyrinth before madoka can come get her. she knows kyubey is just going to enslave her. she even tells her friends that she *has* to die there. however, once she is “rescued”, she kind of had no choice but to take madoka and bring her back to earth. kyubey’s species was just going to use her. i doubt madoka will become her enemy because of her nature. she’s very forgiving and logical.
@@solm.6184 I don't think the incubators would have been able to harness Madoka's power because the only people she would come for would be people she was friends with anyone else she sends 'angels' like Sayaka and Nagisa. This was the one moment where Madoka, in all of her glory, would leave her plane of existence to take someone into the law of cycles. And right before she comes down they blast away all the thousands of incubators in the area leaving the place barren. She only came down because she knew it was safe. I'm certain that had Homura not pulled her from godhood she would have been safe. The incubators would have obviously continued to *try* and get to Madoka but would have ultimately failed because, let's be honest here, she's a literal god. She would be able to destroy any incubators that came at her. Not to mention she's all knowing when it comes to magical girls. She knows when every single magical girl falls into despair. She even knew about the whole Kyuubey trying to create a witch thing. I mean Sayaka and Nagisa reference her knowing and the fact that Madoka herself sent them to help protect Homura. Madoka is smart and she wouldn't give the incubators any opportunity to take control of her.
BB I just remember Homura yelling at Kyubey for planning to use Madoka when she became a witch or somewhere along those scenes. I need to rewatch it but I know that Homura took her down because of Kyubey
@@solm.6184 Homura 100% ripped Madoka from godhood for fear of Kyuubey taking control of her. But it's extremely unlikely that the incubators would have succeeded in using her power or harnessing it at all. They thought they could control Madoka but she's literally a god on an alternate plane of existence. Not only is she extremely powerful, powerful enough to wipe them out quite frankly, but there's no way she would ever let them control her or her powers.
If anything I'd have to say Homura is a very morally grey/ambiguous character. Its also important to keep in mind that she spent the equivalent of 12 years from the original timeline in EP 10 to the start of the series. No doubt the mental and emotional trauma from that many resets had a big part to play in her personality and mental state.
Dont forget, she spent 12 years of real time... how much more time did she spend with time frozen? She may have had hundreds of years to dwell on her failures....
@@AC-sf3tt Well I remember somebody telling me that she can't stop time indefinitely but only for the same amount she returned in time, so she is twice that time at most. Either that or it is limited by the amount of grief seeds
Its hard to believe its been 5 years since Rebellion. I never much agreed with the opinion that Rebellion did something wrong and heavily enjoyed its progression of Homura as a character. My only problem with the movie is the ending didn't feel "Complete" and that there was more story to be told. Great video, it was nicely produced and you iterated your points very clearly.
@@olliethebunny2539 the question is When . There haven't been any updates since 2015 (apart from an answer about the Concept movie in 2017 with enjoy magia record for now ). That's why most people aren't calm . We have no news apart from the magia record anime...
Everyone's wish was selfish in nature. Mami wanted to survive the car crash. Kyoko wanted her father to be able to put food on the table for her and the family. Sayaka wanted a boyfriend. Even Madoka arguably only made her wish to expunge her guilt over the living hell she had caused for Homura. There is only one girl in the series I can think of who made a truly selfless wish. Charlotte, the Mami-chomping clown dragon herself, who made a contract so that her dying mother could eat her favourite cheesecake before passing away.
Even her wish is not truly selfless. As seen in magia record, she wishes for cheesecake after her mother yells at her. She simply wants to be loved by her mom.
you say it as if selfishness is a bad thing, altruism is nothing but masochism, its pathetic, greed has all ways been a good fundamental of human nature without it we would be living in caves. pathetic cucks all wanna be goody two shoes but in reality they just want recognition for their selfless actions
I gotta defend Madoka, she has no guilt of becoming friends with Homura, if Homura became obsessed with Madoka than it's Homura's fault. What Madoka did was not selfish and never will be, at least in my point of view...
Arguably, yes, but then she could have just wished witches including Walpurgisnacht to come into mitakihara. She chose to erase all witches instead. This choice was not much out ov guilt, more out of a desire to help all magical girls.
Juan Pablo Robayo i always found sayaka to be so annoying and weak. if she really wanted to be a hero of justice, she would’ve tried doing what madoka did. she sacrificed herself for one person and couldn’t do it. i think madoka really stands for justice as sayaka has *always* been in conflict with homura. kyoko too. madoka was the only one willing to truly sacrifice herself for the greater good and didn’t complain. not to mention she wished she didn’t save hitomi because her little rich boy crush liked her instead lmao
@@solm.6184 1. A normal person would most likely fall into despair if they knew the soul was taken out of their body, and eventually they would turn into the very thing that they have been kiiling and hated the most. It took a person a lot (and I mean A LOT) to stay sane. 2. Sacrificed yourself for sb else is a hard thing to do, even for adults. I think you are expecting alot from a teenage girl (who is only 13-14 at that) to sacrifice herself, sth not even adults can do it. Now, think back to your teenage years (if you've already past that phase) do you think you at the time can do it? 3. On the other hand, at the time when Sayaka put her hatred on other ppl, her soulgem was pretty much tained, and we already know what a stained soulgem can do with a magical girl. So while her actions weren't good, they were inderstandable.
Aira Ichigo sorry but i can’t let sayaka slide. she was told by mami that it wasn’t a good idea to make a wish for someone else. we know sayaka’s true wish was for the boy to love her back and appreciate her. within a few days, she spirals out of control? even kyōko implies that she’s dumb. even in the timelines that they do date, she still becomes a witch bc he focuses his time on music rather than her. i’d understand if she wished for everyone with a disability to be healed. sayaka is so weak and selfish. she kills the guys on the train too. the only purpose sayaka served was to prove that girls become witches. but she still acts like this hero of justice? she’s the most pathetic character in my eyes.
sol m. “She still becomes a witch because he focuses on music rather than her in the timelines where they do date” So he’s hyper focused just like in the alpha timeline where he dates her friend instead. Lowkey that’s lame. It shows she didn’t know him that much.
i think the reason homura doesnt show more emotion for sayaka, mami or kyoko is because in every timeline she knows what happens when they get more involved, sayaka is pretty much destined to become a witch, even if she didnt, she was the only one that when homura told everyone about the true intentions of kyubey she shurg it off with "what would kyubey win by doing that?", when mami learns the truth about the magic girl cycle she goes full panic mode and tries to kill everyone and then herself, and kyouko is the more rational option but she pretty much always dies killing sayaka, madoka is literally the only resonable person in the group for her. edit: wow, this comment blow up! thank for the likes magical girls fellows enthusiastic! also forgive me for the grammar, english is not my first language
But she also knows what happens with Madoka, if it was that easy to reason with her she shouldn't have to struggle for so long to stop her from being a Magical Girl. She, until some point attempted to save the others, she just ended giving up on them since they are not Madoka. There is even a timeline where Mami gives up on wanting to kill the others after a huge fight with Kyoko, is not impossible to reason with her is rather difficult, but Homura has not enough will to save her and go to extremes as she has with Madoka She passed from also wanting to save the others, to be indifferent to their fate, to use them and sacrificed them if she has to in order to save Madoka.
Sayaka: never believed in homura/had doubt with her. She was always distrusting. Mami: to emotional on the inside but stubborn on the outside Kyoko: was never in all of the timelines to begin with. Is the least relevant. Only serves in Sayaka's arc rather than homura or anyone else.
@@AarenYASS While it is true that she's probably the least relevant, saying Kyouko wasn't in every timeline is a bit of a stretch. As we see in episode 10, Sayaka brings her up while brushing off Homura's explanation of how they'll turn into witches, even though Kyouko never appeared once up to that point in the episode, so Homura clearly met her offscreen during the first couple timelines (I still need to play through the PSP game, but I'm betting it showcases their first encounters in detail). Remember, it isn't just Sayaka that Kyouko's connected to, she has a past with Mami as well, so she's bound to show up in Mitakihara somehow or other in every timeline and play at least some sort of role (but yes, her interaction is fairly minimal so far as Madoka and Homura are concerned). Then again, I'm not familiar with all the spin-offs, so I could be wrong.
she does care about them, she just is so use to losing them she acts cold towards them. madoka brings out her more vulnerable and desperate side, though.
Homura somehow manages to be completely selfless yet also inherently selfish and her character dynamic is so incredibly complex. I can’t wait to see what’s in store~ Magia Records anime is supposed to be coming this 2019!
I almost feel like Homura isn’t in love with Madoka the girl but “Madoka” like the vague outline of a character that’s caring. She’s almost in love with like a thought with something from her imagination. Like a fake, idealized version of a once “real” person she knew for like a month
she was just a kid :( it makes sense that she wasnt a "good person", she was an incredibly traumatized middle schooler. she watched people die when she was like 12. and then she was manipulated by kyubey into becoming a magical girl, taking on the role of protecting humanity from monsters. as a child. her youth was stolen from her. tbh i really feel for homura as someone who has experienced repeated childhood trauma
Hurt people hurt people. She was a victim. Undisputedly. That doesn't excuse her actions, only gives them context. Context isn't absolution. She can be a bad person BECAUSE of the things that happened to her. That doesn't make her good, just empathetic. We can understand why she does what she does just like we can understand why an abused dog lashes out at strangers. We still wouldn't take that doggo around kids.
@NaturesFlame The problem isn't even really whether or not Homura is a good person, it's the weird moral puratinism pushed on the characters in a way that is often targeted at girls in particular for not being perfect paragons of virtue. See also the way that Sayaka and Mami are talked about in this video as well for reasons why it's a little uncomfortable. Even before Homura did anything even morally gray, she was accused of showing signs of "sociopathy" for not reacting in an emotional enough manner for this person's liking. All in all, this really just wasn't the best video for discussing Homura's or any of their characters in the most intelligent way. There is definitely substance to Homura always having been flawed, but the execution was just kind of... dumb.
Yes I think homura and trying to decide her morals and decide her will is end to no avail because she is a child not fully developed not fully thought through, and still growing, homura as a whole is a child, someone with questionable morals, and madoka magica has a bunch of stuff that is exaggerated, kids don't see certain things as wrong, thats why kids are more prone to stealing because consequences are loose, and a difficult concept for children to understand
The manga (though not cannon) shows an interesting side of Homura and it points out one of the biggest problems with the original ending. If only Homura remembers Madoka and whenever she talks about her it sounds like she's talking nonsense, she ends up with two options: Carry on with her live and eventually forget Madoka (not literally but you get what I mean) or to carry the burden of her memory in a world where she didn't even exist to begin with. If she was able to accept the fact that Madoka is gone, she wouldn't even set the events in motion that started the series; wishing to protect her. So her poor mental state in Rebellion and in the manga (and in the first timeline) just shows that Homura hasn't learn her lesson: She hasn't learned to deal with loss and grieving. I think this makes Homura a compelling character, to the point that people have even sided with her ("Homura did nothing wrong") or, if they don't completely side with her, at least they understand why she acted like she did. At the end of the day, we all now how hard is letting go and how tempting is the idea of delaying letting go something or someone, even to the detriment of that thing, that someone or even ourselves.
@@ShadowSkyX It's more like she goes through all the stages of grief EXCEPT acceptance, lmao. She just cycles back to "denial" every time she reaches "depression"
I had to watch the last movie again, and... I object with your opinion, Homura isn´t a Sociopath at all, in fact, when she recaps the most important events in the several timelines she had to travel for Madoka´s sake, She suffered, not only by Madoka´s death, She also suffers with every other "Holy Quintet" member´s death... But she repeated the timeline so much, that she gave up about save any other than Madoka. Even in the last timeline, she is so reserved, but, she really tried to save Mami, but Mami imprisioned her in a Ribbon cage, she really tried to prevent Sayaka from Making a contract with Kyubey, Ok she didn´t do it with touch, but she tried to save Sayaka aswell, even when Homura offers her a griefseed, because she knew that Sayaka would end up becoming into a witch... again, and Sayaka refuses it. Homura really tried to save everyone as much as She could, but I think she is like a Vietnam´s soldier with only 14 year old, repeating the same batlle so many times. Homura had to watch thousand of times the death of every member of her Gang, not only Madoka. At the end of the anime In fact Homura, as Madoka said, Homura was the best friend she would ever had, not only because of trying to save her, also all the gang. Concluding that Homura really is a good person, even the best person in the entire anime, just below Madoka herself. Now passing to the last movie events, She isn´t a bad person either, even Mami told her "At least you still have somekind of concern about my life" Because even with that awesome battle, between both of them, Homura hesitated in order to kill Mami, and only tried to hurt her, paralizing her, with a shot in the leg... And when she decided to become a witch for Madoka´s sake, again, she counted with Kyoko and Mami, to kill her... That disturbing scene with Madoka and Homura in a meadow, and how Madoka splashed in a pink liquid when she hit the floor, Its whats hapening inside Homura´s head "No matter what I do, I will never save her, I hate myself, I only deserve to be destroyed... The only way to save her, is to destroy me" Homulily itself. She has handcuffs, she is crying, the ribbon of her dress is destroying everything in order to give the other magical girls, a reason to kill her... And some erie element in Homura´s witch form, is that she is walking directly to a guillotine, so she has to be destroyed, yes or yes, by her own "green mile" like a guilty of witchcraft or by the other magical girls, for Madoka´s and every other Holy quintet member´s sake, specially Madoka´s sake. Whe she transforms in a "devil" She is truly insane, but not like a sociopath, she has a terrible case of PTSD , because she know than even if Madoka save her, and could be with her for etternity, like every other magical girl like Sayaka or Nagisa. Incubators will not stop trying to understand how Madoka´s powers work, and try to use her for them owns porpuses, and that´s why instead of allowing Madoka to carry her for etternty, Homura takes Madoka´s memories being a godess, and changing the universe itself as a consecuence, because in that form she will protect her from any harm, at any cost, by taking away her memories of her true self, and her power In conclusion... Homura is a good person, but so jaded, and in this point of the story almost completely insane from a really severe case of PTSD, not sociopathy
this is a good read. And agreed, Homura did try to save everyone in the anime.. not just Madoka. And up to this day, it still surprises me how she did not go crazy repeating hostory so many times, trying to save Madoka.
@@ClaudiaGarcia-ou4gn you're welcome. When you're done with Magia Record, and want a bit of fun read... I suggest googling for "Magia Report", mangakakalot has it. It's the official promotional comics for the game. Has Iroha, Madoka, and everyone else. Already translated to english. :)
when I first watched rebellion, I had a sudden realization. Madoka and Homura represent 2 sides of love. Homura represents selfish love. She wants Madoka for herself, and will sacrifice anything in order to make that happen. Madoka represents selfless love. She learns the whole story, and instead of saving herself, takes it upon herself to try to fix things, sacrificing herself in the process.
Well when you sacrafice yourself you dont have to think about the ones you left behind but those who are left behind think about you with every breath knowing they draw that breath because of you. So what is selfish? to find a way out of experiencing any emotions or having to face your emotions with every single breath? This is a contradiction both are selfish and selfless thats why they are a duality mirroring each other - one for all all for one. Madoka sees the pain of all magical girls and takes it in herself and the one who sees her pain is left behind as a witness to that sacrafice. Madoka doesnt have to live with that awareness but Humora does
It wrote a whole new sub genre in anime. Some could even argue it wrote a new genre almost entirely. I think we can all agree that Puella Magi Madoka Magica was revolutionary to some extent for anime.
Do you understand Rebellion? Do you understand all of Madoka Magica is a retelling of Goethe's Faust and Homura is Faust, Madoka is Gretchen, and Kyube is Mephistophiles?
Being forced to kill Madoka, the only one to ever be kind to her, shattered her psyche. It's after that point that she changes her look and stops caring about anyone except Madoka. Everyone else will either help her in her goals or they're obstacles.
I think this aspect is often overlooked. From my point of view, it's very likely that Homura had already murdered magical girls in other timelines at the time of the start of the series. She didn't hesitate to try to kill Sayaka when she realised her fate was sealed, and would have surely done it if Kyoko hadn't intervened. That stage started when she was first forced to end a human life due to Madoka not wanting to become a witch. From that point on, it became increasingly easy for her to kill people for the sake of Madoka. She began seeing people as mere means or obstacles towards her final goal.
@@m.j.v.4463 indeed, being nice and trying to save others was just to obtain the real goal. Even Madoka herself. Madoka literally saves the universe and Homura was so set on Madoka she decided to keep going anyways.
11:31 To clear this up: Homuras labyrinth is not enveloping the whole world and she is not "mysteriously" gaining those powers: Homuras wish was to be strong enough to "protect" Madoka, no matter the cost. Within the flower field scene, she realizes that Madokas fate is cruel, that Madoka is not "rescued", but Madoka is a godlike entity now, one that rewrote the world and herself out of existence. So the only way Homura sees to save Madoka now is to once more rewrite the world, tearing Madokami back into existence.
I think that Homura has the power of a god because she wished to protect a god. Alternatively, it could be that her wish caused her to have any amount of power to achieve her desire, no matter if it caused her to become a god. It doesn't matter how much power she had. She just changed her magical girl form to that of a god's and assumed that power level.
@@NapaCat With the theme of the anime being duality, I believe that while the time resets accumulated positive karma within Madoka allowing her to become a god, Homura's selfish wish and subsequent actions accumulated negative karma allowing her to become a demon. While Madokami shares her karma with other magical girls by rescuing them from becoming witches, Homura the demon will now spread hers by causing grief and suffering as a demon. We've been told repeatedly that the Universe is a zero-sum game. You can't create energy out of nothing, so for a huge amount of positive energy to exist, there must also exist an equal amount of negative energy. And that negative energy is within Homura.
@@B3RyL it could be that homura became a demon not because she grew powerful enough due to her wish to protect madoka, but due to her taking all of madoka's grief, since as she said that even grief is dear to her. Since madoka absorbs magical girl's grief before they die, in this case the reverse happened, since homura was not suffering and also due to her wish to protect madoka(taking madoka's grief so that she wouldn't perish at the end)
I feel you've missed something important in all of this. Bear in mind that Homura's wish was made last-minute, in desperation, and worded in such a way that Kyube intentionally misinterpreted, because for Kyube, the ends are more important than the means, and it claims to have no concern for concepts of humanity or emotions. This, of course, trapped her in a cycle with no escape, and saw her retry and fail countless times. When you do something like that for long enough, you are inevitably going to lose sight of your original goal/s, and the toll it takes on your psyche will be tremendous. In the same way as 'Groundhog Day' sees the protagonist fall into despair eventually, so too does Homura. The only difference is that there was to be no happy ending for her. I don't think it's fair or right to say that she wasn;t a good person. She was misled by forces she was ignorant to in the beginning, and it changed her.
Homura only cares about Madoka's wellbeing and happiness. She was prepared to suffer eternally for Madoka. She let herself become a demon for Madoka. What's controversial is that she went against Madoka's own wishes to protect Madoka's wellbeing. If you go against someone's wishes to protect them, are you being selfish? Homura really does care about Madoka's happiness, not her own, in fact she doesn't care what happens to herself in the process, but she prioritizes Madoka's happiness over everything, even Madoka's agency.
For me Homura is like the mom who decided to lock up her kid in the house instead of letting her go save the world (in contrast to Madoka’s real mom). Homura is not a bad person, she just wants to live in a world that Madoka is happy. But she repeatedly stops Madoka from making her own choices (growing up into an adult). In this case literally forcing Madoka in a world Homura controls and can force Madoka into a child forever. “I know what’s best for you, you can’t take care of yourself so I’ll take care of you for you.” It’s kind but at the same time completely dismissive of Madoka as a person. I think it’s very telling that in Homura’s world Madoka is the nervous, insecure, confused transfer student with no friends (what Homura was). While Homura is the beautiful confident class rep type who everyone obeys. For Homura to be “good” she has to see Madoka as an equal and that Madoka’s choice about her life is just as if not more important then what Homura decides it should be. Childhood innocence is happiness but meeting each other as adults can also be happiness
Thats true I actually ship Madoka and Homura So who ever thinks shes a bad person and that she wants Bad to Madoka i will put hate comments so bad HOMURA IS AN GREAT PERSON!!!!
no, she *HAD* to. kyubey admitted that he was going to trap madoka and practically enslave her. he was going to try to bring witches back for the whole entropy shit so they can use the energy again. madoka would’ve sacrificed herself for nothing. i don’t know why people forget that key detail
Fandom is so busy with praising Homura that they don't even understand her or the movie.Homura knows what she did is wrong.Sayaka knows.Madoka knows.They will eventually have to be enemies because Homura's universe is unstable, Homura is, more unstable than ever now that she snapped and losing her sanity.What happened to the all those magical girls?How will this effect entropy now that everything is out of order?Will godoka become a witch herself if she can't stop magical girls from becoming witches?We don't know.I loved Rebellion and i love Madoka and Homura.But "Homura did nothing wrong" is definitely wrong.
U miss one point, Homura said she only take one piece of the law of circle so that means the entropy is not damaged and the other magical girl can continue be saved. ( my english is bad, sorry)
She's selfish but in a way she did sacrifice herself for Madoka to have her normal life back. As temporary as it may be, she became the villain so Madoka can be "happy". This also applied to the rest of the magical girls though it's just a side effect.
@kuro kitsune No one is saying that she didn't do anything wrong. What we are saying is that we understand that what she did was not entirely "wrong", but necessary. Think about it. She was lured to be a player and also... a piece in an unwinnable game , where she was cheated, outnumbered, and forced to act in overwhelming conditions. Imagine that you're playing a game...but the rules only applies to you, while everybody else laugh at you while they cheat and win and surpasses you in every way... what would you do? if loosing is equivalent of dying and loose everything you love and fight for... yes... you cheat... you cheat as hard and nasty as you can... But in the case of Homura... she can't cheat to win...No, the only thing she can do, is even the odds.... balance the game. and stop being another a piece on the board. Forced to became her self, a monster not win against the monsters. No, she became the monster only to delay her enemies's next move and maybe, just maybe... have a CHANCE to win. The game continues... .
@Gate To Another World How exactly do you know current Homura universe is better than Madoka's?I couldn't find all of scans for wraith arc,can you please explain how it's more stable?
@@game.surveyors2728 It's okay,it' not my main language either.Can law of cycles even work without Madoka?Last time we saw it it was torn apart.And you can see Sayaka's witch in Concept Trailer so i don't think magical girls can be saved without Godoka complete.
I don't get why people have a problem with Homura having the same power as Madoka (or why she would want to do this, but that's addressed by this video, so let me ramble a bit about the other issue). In the series, Madoka gained this strength, because she was able to accumulate the Karmic weight of every cycle Homura went through because it was done on her behalf. So why wouldn't the same hold true for the one who turned back the time? Just like Madoka, we see Homura gain strength with each cycle. Where at first she can barely dent an empty barrel, she later becomes a star athlete and can shoot energy blasts from her bare hand. She can even keep several ICBMs and dozens of mortars and rocket launchers and what looks like at least one ton of explosives in her pocket dimension! And to top if off, when it's expained how Madoka became so strong, it's visually represented with her being bound up in strongs. In the original series itself, we also see Homura shown in the very same representation, in the same posture bound with the same white strings. Furthermore from what Kyubey said, we know that there are two moments which produce this immense outburst of energy: The moment a girl is turned into a magical girl and when a magical girl becomes a witch. Now why didn't any magical girl before use this moment of immense power to basically become god? Three reasons: 1) Madoka and Homura are (to our knowledge) the only ones to ever accumulate the Karma of multiple timelines, which seems to be necessary to do such a feat. 2) Usually a magical girl turns into a witch when she loses all hope and thus all desire to do anything with this huge amount of power. 3) Usually the Incubators are there to ciphon off this power to save the universe from entropy. Each one on their own, or a combination of them would account for why this has never happened before, but Homura was able to do it. Now toss in the fact that when Homura fell into despair, she was in the process of being experimented on by the Incubators and you have a recipy for an unforseen outcome. On top of that Homura, unlike any other magical girl before her, knew for a fact that rewriting the universe was possible, because she saw Madoka doing it. So in short, it makes absolute sense for me that Homura would be able to do this and for the reasons you explained in your video it also makes sense why she would try it in the first place... to me at any rate. If there's any complaint I have about Rebellion, it's with the visuals. At times there's so much going on on-screen at the same time, it's impossible to take it all in at once. Here a little scaling back might have been the better idea... but that's just a minor issue along the lines of nitpicking. The story, to me, is just spot on. If only they would finally make the final movie that the concept trailer hinted at. ^^
Well I mean that is true but it also has to do with the Incubators saying that raw human emotional energy was the most powerful in the universe for staving off entropy and when given the right nudge can be powerful enough to rewrite the universe. My guess was that their transformation into magical girls and having all their emotional energy stew in a soul gem was not a really good idea on their part because they effectively made the means to create something more powerful than themselves.
Adding on to this, due to the experiment's the Incubators performed on her, Homura had had the time to accept herself for what she was, making it so that when she woke up, she would turn into a witch with a functioning human mind, and with the explosion of power she was able to use this extreme corruption to consume the universe, plus all the Incubators that were in Homura's vicinity when this happened had just been killed by Madoka, explaining why they didn't siphon the energy.
An important point to add to your ideas is that the series very explicitly establishes that the nature of the wish can interfere with their karmic fate. Madoka took in all magical girls' despair and would have instead turned into the ultimate witch if her own wish didn't also allow her to become more powerful to take in her own despair. Homura's wish was two-fold... she wanted to go back (thus enabling her time manipulation powers) but she also wanted to protect Madoka. Now, I've also always interpreted the turning-back-time portion as also increasing the weight of Homura's karmic destiny at the same time as Madoka's. Likewise, Rebellion does two things that are important for Homura's transformation: it establishes (to Homura) that the Madoka in her labyrinth is real, and it confirms that Madoka would consider her own hypothetical sacrifice to be horrible. Thus, at the end of the series, when Homura is given the chance to make contact with the Law of Cycles, if she had enough karmic weight then her wish to protect Madoka would allow her to change the universe as well.
With how the second half of Homura's wish was "to be strong enough to protect" Madoka, she essentially set herself up to be by-definition more powerful than Madoka. After all, it can be difficult to protect a god without being one yourself. If the combined karmic destiny of 100 timelines was enough to elevate Madoka to godhood, the semantics of Homura's wish meant she not only had to be stronger than Madoka had become, but also capable of _depowering_ Madoka so that she would be able to be protected at all. After looking closely at Homura's wish, it becomes doubtful she could have ever ended up as anything less than a god herself.
If I recall correctly, the reason Homura laid markedly less importance on Sayaka, Kyoko and Mami is desperation. She has been trying over and over again, failing every time. Eventually she decided that she cannot afford to focus on the other members and chose to just protect Madoka. I believe this was actually explained in episode 10 (maybe 11). I may be wrong though. Also, what makes you think that selflessness is an important theme in Madoka magica? The theme that I see is the discrepancy between the girl's desires and the reality of the world around them. This discrepancy leads to despair and corruption as the girls have to compromise on their wishes in accordance with the reality around them. Some of those desires have a selfish core to them, some don't. Am I missing something? Other than that is think this is a good analysis. Kudos.
The magical girls are supposed to save the world, using the energy they collect the Incubators are trying to stop the world from collapsing if I remember correctly. They're supposed to act for the greater good. Except they don't. Each one of them become a magical girl for selfish reason and end up paying a high price for it. All except madoka, she is the only one that decide to make a wish to save all the magical girls at the cost of her own life and she is the only one achieving the ending she wanted. Sayaka realize too late that nobody will congratulate her efforts. Kyôko family end up dying. Mami get killed. And Homura wasn't able to really get madoka back. But madoka saved the magical girls from their despair as she wished. Every different wishes push Madoka to choose a selfless wish. She saw Mami make the wish to save herself and die alone, stopping her from becoming a magical girl without a real reason. She saw Sayaka make the wish that her childhood friend would heal in hope of getting his affection and getting consumed by that wish when she realized the implications of becoming a magical girl and sacrifices needed for it, stopping her from making a wish for her own benefits (it work with Kyoko too but Madoka don't know her story). And finally Homura, who made the wish to save her and got trapped in an endless nightmare because of that, make madoka brave, as someone sacrificed her life just to save her. As madoka come to realize that nobody can run away from their despair she decide to confront her own and to save the others from it. Accomplishing what every magical girl wanted but failed to achieve. Finding the way to end despair : selflessness. Which is also the reason why she didn't brought back Sayaka, Sayaka sacrificed herself for the good of her friend after she came to terms with herself.
She only wanted to save Madoka because Madoka was the very first friend she made in Homaru’s own timeline. Sayakia and Kyoko didn’t become magical girls and weren’t friends with Madoka in that timeline. Mami was just a sweet girl she knew. But Madoka’s death impacted homaru the most. Because Madoka was glad to be her friend, and glad to rescue her from that witch when they first met. Homura discluded the other girls and desperately wanted to save Madoka . Although she didn’t know what Madoka really want. Homaru is desperately trying to save Madoka, when Madoka sacrifices herself to save everyone else. Kind of sad, isn’t it? Homaru did notice the other girls, although her more primary goal was to save Madoka than everyone else
That's still harsh on her she spends the first episodes trying to save Mami but Mami takes her out. Then she spends almost the entire rest of the show trying to save Sayaka but Sayaka rejects her help every time. Kyoko literally suicides. By the end of the film she's saved every magical girl in her own way. She only betrayed Madoka because the alternative was to wait patiently for the next attempt the Kyubeys made to kill Madoka. She achieves this by inflicting eternal suffering on herself.
@@RevolutionaryLoser Yeah but Homura do all that because Madoka cares about Mami and Sayaka, she isn't moved by their death and she never tried to find a way to befriend them so they think she is on their side she treat everybody as she treat Madoka, but she is unfriendly with Madoka so she don't become a magical girl. She never saved the other magical girl, it's a byproduct of her trying to save Madoka and failing. Imagine all the frustration and despair it would have produced to have save everybody except the one you want to save if she remembered everything well.
@@keerya4179 She tried being friendly but it didn't work and I dont see why it would. You are forgetting she's been doing this for years and seen hundreds of people die in front of her. She also knows all witches are magical girls so she is perfectly aware that she's killing other girls like her every day. Of course she isnt going to break down just by seeing a friend die. The fact that she still suffers so much each time she sees Madoka die is a testament to her humanity.
I think you make a lot of good points. Homura's feelings for and actions towards Madoka have never been healthy. She does't love "Madoka, the person," she *wants* "Madoka, the ideal." She really parallels Sayaka that way when you think about it. Both of them went to great lengths for a person they loved, believing they'er acting out of selflessness, when in reality it's selfishness that drives them. What Homura did at the end of the movie was Kyoko's advice to Sayaka (paraphrased "You should've used your wish to make him completely dependent on you.") taken to the extreme.
Speaking of Kyouko's advice, I may not be remembering very well, but didn't she suggest that she'd go ahead and take Kyousuke for herself if Sayaka wasn't willing to break his arms and legs? Pretty crazy and disturbing to think that Kyouko could've went as far as becoming a rapist if she felt like it.
YamatoFukkatsu Kyoko wasn’t being serious about it and their relationship was still antagonistic at that point. As for Homura, she did love Madoka as she was, but she loved Madoka in the original timeline. Madoka saved her in more ways than one and she had the desire to be the one who saves her. However when you are repeatedly exposed to trauma over and over again like Homura, there is no way anyone survive that mentally well. Homura is a very broken person whose determination and love got twisted as time goes on. She doesn’t fully realize that she eventually disregards Madoka’s agency and begins to treat her like a precious object than a human. And people think that she would be totally okay with Madoka giving up her existence after going such extreme hell? Like really?
And Homura’s relationship with Madoka in this timeline is incredibly unhealthy, and I get the feeling if homura had been a man people would be calling her an abuser with how she behaves towards her throughout the series. She constantly intimidates her, she belittles her, and the movie is the icing on the cake.
Homura still cares for Kyoko besides Madoka, we can still see her sadness when Kyoko sacrificed herself, and even in Rebellion Homura asks for help to Kyoko the same way she probably did in many timelines.
aspinia There were so many subtle moments revealing Homura’s care and empathy for the others that can go unnoticed if you don’t pay attention to the nuance enough. Her tough exterior is merely a result of the desensitized nature of her mental state from the trauma of going through so many timelines and failure to save everyone, that it can be hard to notice, and easy to assume she has sociopathic tendencies (which I find to be a superficial perspective). Even in almost killing Sayaka at one point was, to her, a way of mercy-killing, before Sayaka inevitably turns into a witch. A sort of lesser of two evils.
I think it was hard for Homura to stay compassionate towards the other characters when living virtually the same horrible life over and over and over made her so broken and apathetic that her pinpoint obsession with Madoka was the only thing powerful enough to make her keep trying. I think she deserves a lot more credit
Always surprised me that other fans seemingly did not like Rebellion. I thought it was a great story. I don't know if I agree with everything you say about Homura's character (i.e. not caring about the other characters solely because she's obsessed with Madoka - I think she has become obsessed with saving Madoka but I think she's re-lived the events so many times that she's become convinced the others' deaths are simply inevitable.) But the story of Homura being consumed by her obsession - to me that was a very satisfying conclusion to her story.
Personally,.. okaaaayyyy.... Yeah the "obsession arc" of homura concluded in this movie. But not the consequences: what Will happen When Madoka regains her memories
I think fans don't like it (I was really put off by it at least), because it doesn't feel like an end. It took the reasonably satisfying conclusion from the show and said "no, actually, all these bad things will happen" and then never resolved them. It's like a movie that ends halfway (like, imagine if Avengers: Infinity War was the last marvel movie, this is like that). I will say, seeing this analysis does make me appreciate the movie a little more, but it still feels like an overall step down for the story right now. If one day they manage to make their conclusion I might change my mind, but for right now the whole thing feels like a cash grab.
@@SomeGuy-ty7kr *6 months later* I agree, but I'd actually argue the original ending is not a satisfying conclusion either. Sure, it satisfies everything plot-wise, but character-wise? Absolutely not. Madoka is canonically not happy with her decision to become a god (as shown in Rebellion and the lyrics to her character song). Homura would never be okay with Madoka becoming a god- Homura does not only want Madoka to 'be happy,' her wish is inherently selfish. She wants to be with Madoka. Both characters are left wanting more. Rebellion may not satisfy everything plot-wise, but in terms of character development, it is a perfect conclusion, and it delivers on all of the themes in the series. Madoka Magica is not a plot-driven story, but character-driven. I do agree that if they ever make a movie that satisfies both plot and character-writing to their conclusion, that would be a more perfect ending, but I fundamentally disagree that Rebellion is a cash-grab. I see it as the only thing that makes sense for these characters, especially Homura.
@@diadrite that is true, but sometimes you can't always get what you want, you know? I don't think "character didn't get the end they hoped for" is necessarily a bad way to end a story, especially since, in homura's case, what she wanted wasn't actually good for her anyway. Learning to let go would have been a far more valuable lesson for her, and would have represented a character progression, rather than a regression. We already know she's obsessed with Madoka, and we've already seen the horrors that resulted (arguably, the wichtnaugh (or whatever it was) was actually homura's witch). Having a whole movie that undoes madoka's sacrifice and further degenerates homura's character is not exactly what I would call the best use of film making resources.
I don't really agree with the Homura as the deuteragonist, for me she's the protagonist as she's the one whose actions have an impact on the world. Madoka is more a goal character, she isn't "Harry Potter the school of wizards" but "the lord of the ring" type of title character. For me Homura doesn't have the same progression as other girls not because of selfishness but because she's the only magical girl who knows what she really wants. She's honest with her feelings and have to face them unlike the other girls who made half assed wishes in which they tried to take the good role and were punished for their hypocrisy. Homura's problem is more of a hubris one.
11:20 I was thinking about this. I realized it was concerning how she became powerful without explanation. But then an idea occurred to me. Madoka's wish is "I want to erase all witches before they are even born." Keypoints "erase all WITCHES" and "before they are even born". Magical girls turn into witches when they succumb to despair. Homura took it one step further by EMBRACING her despair and accepting being evil, going where no magical girl had gone before. Sayaka remarked that her soul gem became something WORSE than a curse. So, perhaps she no longer qualified as a mere 'witch'. On top of that, Homura's witch had ALREADY been born. It was born inside of the Incubator's barrier, meaning Madoka failed to fulfill her own wish. All this adds up to Madoka's powers being nullified. And on top of that, Homura's wish was "Instead of being protected by her, I want to protect her". The moment Madoka made her wish, she was doomed, because she became a 'protector'.
it is interesting to think about how homura's wish goes against madoka's wish, like the whole plot of rebellion of homura/madoka becoming enemies (as mentioned by homura herself on her last talk with madoka ((that they'd become enemies one day)) would be eventually happening or even on top of that, as homura's wish (as she recreates timelines) makes madoka powerfull enough to become a god who protects magic girls happiness, madoka's makes homura powerfull enough to become a devil who protects madokas happiness, as they ascend to opposite powerful existances through love, ideals and fate itself
idk if she's sociopathic, but she definitely developed a hero complex around madoka, since madoka was her hero in the first timeline. but i can see something in her initial shyness that explains her clinging to one person instead of developing a meaningful relationship with the others. while it's initially a general 'it sucks that mami died' at first, it hardens quickly. not saying that homura shouldn't care about the others, but along the way, after she realizes that they become witches when they fall into despair, it would cause her a lot more despair to continually try to save the other girls as well. it's understandable how this happens, but yeah the homura we meet is not a well adjusted girl with certain character flaws, like mami or sayaka. her initial flaw has morphed into something larger over time, which ties back into the understanding that reliving the past has created an overwhelming about of emotional energy in the timeline we witness
Throughout the series, a character's motivation constantly overlaps with their circumstance which causes people to take actions at face value. This can be applied to every character in the series who put on a facade in order to meet an end. Whether it was Homura acting cold, Mami and Sayaka acting brave, Kyoko acting selfish, or Madoka acting content, their characters had to deviate in some way to achieve a goal that they perceive as bigger than them. Sure, one could say "Homura is just being possessive", or one can acknowledge that the alternative of losing Madoka was far worse than losing one's self. Homura is more self-aware than people give her credit for. Ultimately, she acknowledges that what she had to do in order to save Madoka was wrong. Whether it was lamenting about how acting coldly personaly hurt her (right before the fight with Mami) , or "wishing for a world in which you can be happy" (literally the last line of the movie). She isn't delusional. Somewhat similar to Kiritsugu, Homura believed that the end always justified the means no matter what she became. In this case, that goal is Madoka's happiness.
Love the comparison to Kiritsugu. My brain came up with the (tongue in cheek) sentence "Kiritsugu and Homura are the same person" and now I feel validated.
WARNING: Extremely long rant/analysis of Homura and her interactions with the other characters (besides madoka) The whole "Homura did nothing wrong!" thing always kinda bothered me, because it feels like people think a character has to be entirely good/flawless. and that it's bad to like a character who isn't. Homura definitely made a quedtionable decision in the ending, and while she's doing it to give Madoka a world where she can be happy with her friends, it's not really what Madoka wants. Also, it's true that Homura can come off as very cold towards the other magical girls, but I wouldn't say she doesn't care for them. She definitely cared back when she was first getting into the msgical girl stuff, and while she still cares, she realized that it's a lot easier for her to become cold ans distant than to get close, knowing that the other magical girls are practically destined to die. The scenes before and after the fight with Mami really struck me, because Homura reveals that Mami always troubled her because she was fragile (something along these lines, I'm doing this from memory). I think this shows that Homura really does care for Mami, and it hurt her to see Mami die, or lose it. This also is probably a big factor as to why she stopped trying to team up with Mami, because even if she survived, she had a really hard time learning the truth. Interestingly enough, we actually got to see a lot of Sayaka sympathizing with Homura in this movie (though it gets reversed by the end). I imagine since she died, she also knew what Homura went through. While I think Homura in general disliked Sayaka more than Mami, since she never really liked Homura to begin with, I also think Homura had some cared for her, at least a bit. That being said, most of Homura's interactions with Sayaka shouldn't be defended (the grief seed scene from the show comes to mind). Homura did seem to show some care fore Sayaka before she became a magical girl, but it's clear that she's given up on any chance of her surviving as one. Honestly, the only thing that upsets me about the end of rebellion is that it completely undoes any potential progress eith these two, as Sayaka looses all her sympathy. Kyoko (Kyouko? I've seen both and idk which is mpre popular) is an interesting case, because she's the only magical girl Homura gets close(ish) to in the main timeline of the show. This is due to the fact that Homura sees her as truely fit to be a magical girl, and is probably the only one who Homura sees having the chance to survive. I think Homura really did feel genuinely sad after Kyoko's death in the show, and probably wanted to help her, but felt it was more important to save Madoka (Kyoko's line about protecting the things you care about gets me ;-;). I think Homura is a pretty good example of a grey character done well. She has good intentions, but her experience shows her that she can't save everyone (or at least she thinks this), and forces her to settle for what's most important to her. It's wrong to say that Homura is a horrible person, but it's also not right to say she's perfect, which is fine. As a side note: it's important to remember that these girls are all in middle school. I've seen a lot of people complain that Madoka cries too much, or Sayaka was stupid (she says it herself, but I mean more of a criticism of her logic/mindset), or that Homura mad bad decisions. These girls are, like, 14-ish? It's absurd to expect them to make amazing life decisions that even adults would struggle with, especially when going through that kind of trauma. anyways rant over, I have too many feelings about this show and just felt I needed to put them somewhere.
"Homura did nothing wrong" is just a modified version of "Griffith did nothing wrong" meme. Both Homura and Griffith have fanatic worshippers and passionate haters in their respective fandom (Griffith from Berserk manga) The worshippers are legitimately using that phrase to defend their impure and selfish actions, while their haters are using that phrase *sarcastically*
While I do understand the point that Homura's wish can definitely be interpreted as possessive/selfish, the message I got from it was that she was almost trying to "return the favor" to Madoka- Madoka saved and protected her, not to mention gave her something to live for, and I think Homura wanted to be able to protect her as thanks. But that's just my interpretation. Homura as a character can be interpreted in several different ways, which is honestly part of why I love her character so much.
Well, I’m gonna say this... MANY people hate Homura after the rebellion movie. I’ll tell you. They didn’t understand what Homura was REALLY doing, Homura had to do one last attempt, she wanted to make Madoka happy, even though she has to play as the enemy to save the one she wants to protect. But, she feels like she has to sacrifice herself to grant that wish. Homura just wanted to be next to her, as a friend, not a mortal or a god. But, as a friend who could be together forever.
I enjoyed this video and I agree with almost every point you've made, but I'd advise against using terms like "sociopath" too freely. Perfectly sound people can commit atrocious acts, too. I dont think Homura had sociopathic tendencies in the beginning -- on the other end, a case could be made about her mental unstableness after going through the endeavor of trying to save Madoka, again and again. Not a critique, just a thought!
I mean like you said she did have to kill her friend, watch all her other friends die, and had to repeat these same few days over and over again knowing in the end she gets the same results. It's still up to debate on what Homura did was a good thing or bad thing but is it that far off to think that she could be a sociopath after all of this pain she's endured? Most people would, so why would she be out of the question?
Except she shows a ton of signs of sociopathy. Whether or not it's a part of her or merely learned behavior to deal with the world she's dealt with, it's not an unfair comparison. She lies and deceives, seems to lack guilt, is incredibly impulsive, has very little empathy, seems uninterested in her own safety, etc. People need to remember that sociopathy is a disorder, and as such not an inherited illness necessarily.
Something I learned recently is that "Akemi" roughly translates as dawn, making her full name "Flame of Dawn". There happens to be someone else whose name refers to a morning light, such as a star. A Morning Star perhaps. Translate into Latin and the series couldn't end any other way and the nickname "Homucifer" becomes surprisingly hilarious. For those not in the know, Lucifer's name directly translates as either Morning Star or Light Bringer.
I think the way that she tries to kill herself how the witch she creates is a suicidal one going to be executed is probably the best example of who she is at heart. She hates herself and the world and sees madoka as the only one worth saving. I think her actions at the end are a result of being a witch. Not only a witch but one who incubated for so long while people kept her from fully dying and while the incubators imprisoned her. If whst creates magical girls is despair and other negative emotions wouldnt onces soul gem being that corrupted essentially make herexperience those things mor e strongly
It's interesting, all the girls, but especially Madoka and Homura, think poorly of themselves. Madoka, like Mami the first time we meet her, reveals that she is quite self-conscious, and this still seems to be recurrent in each timeline. For her, the only way to find validation is in what she sees as a higher cause, and while protecting others is a noble goal, ultimately, I think Madoka's insistence on becoming a martyr is ultimately a showcase of how little she cares about herself, sees herself as small and encapable in the world around her. Homura, is much the same, with her first timeline revealing that she is physically weak, and thinks very poorly of herself. While she tries to hide it, her actions and thoughts on herself show that while she may have gained power to do what she couldn't before, she now sees herself as less of a person. A key difference between the two is that while Madoka sees her wish as an opportunity to change herself, Homura is always stuck in the same place, and because she can never remove herself from being a magical girl and is reliant on Madoka's wellbeing, she can't change, because there's always the likelihood that everything will return to zero. I find the two interesting in that their character weaknesses and self-reflections seem to mirror each other, where they see the other as a role model and themselves as being unworthy of each other. Contrasted with Kyoko and Sayaka, who are two people who originally held similar views, but while Kyoko became jaded by losing everything around her, Sayaka became aggressive and defensive due to Kyoko's warnings. To take pride in her own choice to become a magical girl, she built her entire identity around defending justice like Kyoko once did, and by forcing herself to be self-reliant, ultimately destroyed herself. Compare to Kyoko, who numbed her ideals and the world around her to survive, only to ultimately die for Sayaka, who rekindled that same passion and care she had abandoned, and so that neither would be left alone. I find it interesting to compare Kyoko and Sayaka to Homura and Madoka, because the former seem to be capable of resolving each others problems and growing, while the latter are stuck because they rely on the validation and existence of something greater than them, and have similar yet ultimately opposing goals that unravel each other... It will be interesting to see where the story goes further, now that Homura seems to see herself as a devil and has powers she can abuse, I wonder how her choices will impact the cores of the other characters. Either way, I expect time looping shenanigans, and possibly some witchery
@@Iridescent_Astraea Gosh yeah. You've summed this up so perfectly. It's also worth noting that Homuta is only as bad as she is because her soul gem got so poisoned. Her self hate and want to save people has been severely twisted while madoka hasn't been twisted in that way. I want more Madoka. It's an amazing franchise that very few knock offs have come close to
There is a drama CD that perhaps addresses some of the things you brought up here. It's the first one - Memories of You. Basically it focuses on the timeline and gives more insight into why Homura likes Madoka specifically. Additionally, I think Homura views Madoka specifically as like the coolest person ever. First impressions are important and Homura's first impression of Madoka was as the cool, confident magical girl. Homura's infatuation with Madoka isn't because she saved her from a witch. It's because Madoka saw Homura was lonely and depressed and she saved her from that. Being with Madoka was the first, and only time, in her life where she felt like she was wanted. I think her wish was because she wanted to be cool like Madoka (who is the coolest person to her) and also wanted to save her from dying. After all, if she's not strong enough to protect her the same thing will just happen again... which it does... many times. I think interpreting it as possessiveness is incorrect. Also, in the end, when she calls herself evil, I think it's less because she thinks what she did is selfish but more because she hurt Madoka to do it. somethin like that anyways idk. Anyways Memories of You is pretty good. Yall should give it a read/listen. Spoiler, but they bond over a shared love of cats. Which is just so perfect for a series about witches.
4:54 Wait, was Homura not crying in that scene over Mami's death? Because I'm pretty sure she was crying in that scene over mami's death. Wouldn't her wanting Madoka to not share that same fate make her the opposite of a sociopath? In Rebellion, her dream ideal world had everyone happily living together. If that wasn't what she really wanted then why would she subconsciously invite then? Before the Mami fight, she even laments on how acting coldly towards others pained her. Not exactly someone I would call a sociopath.
I feel the same way. I have a feeling that you can view Homura from two different ankles, one where she is a bad and selfish person and one in wich she gives up her own life in favour of those she holds dear. In fact, this is really close to Madokas wish. Homura kills Madoka in the second line in favour to her. It feels for her as she would have killed herself. SHe didn't allow Madoka to become a witch for THE SAKE OF MADOKA HERSELF. We experience what Homura as a witch/the evil suffers through and from that point I imagine Homura killing Madoka before she becomes a witch is an act of true love. Actually, I have a feeling that Homura is the person to make sure that Madoka's ultimate wish can be granted in the end. I don't refer to her as a "sociopath" that grows onto Madoka. I feel for her like as for a victim. A victim of her shyness, of the incubator, a victim to fate. And she doesn't become evil because she IS evil - she becomes evil because the incubators put her into a closed space, making it impossible for Madoka to reach out to her before she becomes a witch. The explanation in the video lacks this fact completely.
one more thing, excuse me for using your comment, but it points exactly in the direction i was going. I feel like Rebellion deals with the aftermath of the series as a whole. If you look at it, the whole film is built up like the stages you go through when you suffer from the death of a loved one. First, you refuse to believe it, then you fall into anger, you fall into despair, you do this, that and finally you accept. For none of this Homura had time in the series. She always went back to the start. Ultimately, she can not accept because she is the one responsible for Madokas death in all timelines, at least she thinks so. People fall sick in the real world as well for witnessing and doing terrible things as such. You could convince me that Homura is not a strong person for not being able to let go, but in the end, I feel like even after she falls evil, she has the goal to fulfill Madokas wish, which is why she points out that they will become enemies one day. She struggles between letting Madoka be the circle and handing her to the incubators. In my opinion, there is a strong need for another film to have a full perspective on Homuras personality.
anomalou dude Homaru isn’t evil, ugh of course you think she’s evil because she was that black hair and cold personality. Stereotypes ಠ_ಠHer actions led her to what she has become. Homaru isn’t evil. She just wanted to save her friend out of the friend group. Madoka impacted her life the most so Homaru didn’t focus on madokas desires and desperately tried to stop her fate on becoming into a magical girl
Well I have to say yes and no, even if she was crying the first time that mami died, doesn't mean she isn't a sociopath. A sociopath is diffent from a psyhcopath because a sociopath is created not born. In the show we see how numb homura is becoming to the other death. And since she wasn't extremely close to mami, you could debate that over time she become numb to seeing everyone but madoka unhappy/dead. Also who to say that the reason that Homura wants that world is because 1. that's a desire she had before she became numb or 2. (I think is the more likely answer) is a mixture of her desire and madoka dream for a calm, happy reality to would keep them both there for as long a possible. However, homura broke free from that reality leading to rebellion.
Homura isn't evil? She literally becomes the epitome is a selfish and obsessed girl who can't let her feelings go... She is the antagonist of madoka rebellion.
Homura's wish when becoming a magical girl was to protect Madoka. Possibly that might be the reason why her "weapon" is a shield and why is her power the strongest ability one could come up with being able to stop and even reverse time. The way I interpret it Homura's struggle simply comes from her ultimately always being unable to bring herself to actually protect Madoka, because the one she needs to protect her from is Madoka herself. The end of the show is literally Homura losing against Madoka and refusing to face her even more by sealing her ability away by mimicking Madoka's weapon. Rebellion was supposed to end with Madoka finally taking Homura away but the writer got pressured into continuing the story so we got the part with Homura capturing Goddess Madoka, but her pattern of trying to protect her but being unable to face her when she needs to protect her from herself still stands with now creating an ideal world of happiness, but when Madoka almost remembers her true self we see how weakly does Homura actually opposes Madoka, and can't face her to the point that Madoka could just merge with her split off god self with no effort and casually walk out if she decided to. Homura is really a "human" person. "Ideal" personalities that are 100% good or bad do not exist, unless they are literally insane, but then it is a dysfunctional mind to begin with. The core of her character really is love. She wants to protect her out of love, then save her from her fate out of love, and ultimately she can't bring herself to fight Madoka when it comes down to it because of her love. The way she either retained her mind after becoming a witch or not becoming one fully is also seems to be the result of her love. Love is generally considered a positive emotion, but honestly it's both a positive and a negative emotion. Homura's actions to protect Madoka are selfless and her only selfishness is her craving for Madoka because of love. Due to love being such an anomaly of an emotion a witch transformation centered around it is ought to be an anomaly too.
I like your interpretation of Homura's struggles, but Urobuchi being pressured into continuing the story is a common misconception, as least going by the translation summaries of his interview on the puella magi wiki. _To be fair, Shinbo thought of it first. From the start, Urobuchi planned to have Madoka take Homura with her, thus creating a "happy ending" of sorts, but decided it wouldn't be a good enough ending. Then, Shinbo suggested the concept "Madoka and Homura into enemies”, Urobuchi accepted the idea and admitted that this was a breakthrough for him. Urobuchi believes that Rebellion got a happy ending for at least its main character, Homura._ wiki.puella-magi.net/Gen_Urobuchi#Translated_Interviews
fake news, the writers weren't pressured to make that kind of ending. the interviews of gen urobochi(the director) said he had ended it with a "happy ending" as you suggested but he felt it was lacking. it was only after shinbo suggested that idea that gen rolled with it.
@@wakamoon1910 Wow, so even Urobuchi himself thought that the "happy ending" wasn't satisfactory? See, I initially went into Rebellion expecting the possibility that it'd end simply with Homura getting saved by Madoka and being with her in the Law of Cycles. However, regardless of whatever happens in the two hours leading up to it, I did worry that such a conclusion would come off as pure fanservice and predictable as fuck (and in the couple of years between the series and the movie, we already had plenty of supplemental material, games and radio dramas and spin-off manga, trying to paint MadoMagi as some sort of story about coming together and forming bonds, exactly the sort of magical girl cliche that this series stood against... hell, the first half hour of this movie seems exactly like something out of Sunny Day Life). Cue the actual ending to Rebellion.... I'm a little shaken up and confused over what the hell just transpired, but I'm also pleasantly surprised. This movie threw me for exactly the kind of dark and unexpected (yet totally logical when you stop to think about it) loop that the series itself would throw at us with nearly every episode.
For there to be love there must be mutual respect and affection for one another. Without respect it's infatuation. With desire infatuation becomes obsession. At least that's how I interpret it.
Madoka's wish was equally selfish. She decided to rewrite the universe no less than Homura (on her own without anybody's input). But somehow people have issues when Homura did it s when Madoka did it. And objectively Homura's world is a lot better than Madoka's. Because nobody had to sacrifice their existence and the incubators are the ones bearing the curses. Mami is no longer lonely, Sayaka and Kyoko have each other and Madoka has her family.
The consistency between character arcs and how Homura's differed with the events of the movie is not something I recognised before, but I'd also say that there's a degree of contrast too in how Homura perceived reality in Rebellion compared to in the series, and I think the notion of a fragile happiness is an astute observation, the world being an illusion a particularly interesting resolution for Homura, given she's always been the purveyor of uncomfortable truths for other magical girls. Even in Rebellion, she finds it natural to explore the enigma in her own labyrinth alone, only trying to wake them up to the deceptions when her back's against the wall. Her attempt to turn this skepticism on herself is interesting too, especially in the scene where she's prostrating herself before the mural of Madoka while the Clara dolls chuck fruit at her and proclaim, "Gott ist tot!" (Nietzsche's famous phrase). Of course, one area of dispute which may cement a little ambiguity on Homura's selfishness might also be how she learned that the incubators' ultimate goal was to take control of Madoka, suddenly making Madoka seem vulnerable again to her, compared to the god she was supposed to have become. She didn't realise Madoka was ultimately in control of the situation, and so her actions at the end could easily be interpreted as an act of over-protectiveness born out of worry. That could easily count as selfishness too, though, I suppose. And, given I think your analysis of all the main characters' arcs save Madoka's regarding selfishness is astute, I'd like to raise the point that the series doesn't necessarily condemn people with selfish impulses outright (for anyone accept Madoka, not having them is basically impossible), merely notes of their potential for exploitation, particularly when fueled by emotion, something Kyubey, master of exploitation, claims to lack. Sayaka's breakdown for thinking momentarily selfishly in episode 7 always aroused pity in me more than anything, as she seems to be pertaining to a unattainable ideal.
I'm so glad I clicked this. Not just because I absolutely adore PMMM but that live action redo of that scene was...the cherry on top. Great content dude!
This video has been haunting me from my Suggested Videos for like a couple of weeks. But it was good. I've always held that Homura's Rebellion was a completely natural progression from her ending in the show, that it made perfect sense for her even while being totally unpredictable for me. Have definitely debated people on this issue. Because the show's resolution is a good ending for everyone except Homura, who wanted exactly one thing for years and years, suffered far more than any other girl, and still failed to get it. Instead, she is left abandoned in a world that is devoid of the one person she cares about. I think there's a line in the show about Homura having pinned all of her hopes on the distant possibility of saving Madoka and giving her that ideal normal life, that it is the one thing that has fueled her journey so far, and at this point if Homura ever gave up on saving Madoka, she would be immediately consumed by despair. That kind of shit going on for years, it had to have seriously warped Homura's mind even beyond all of her other traumas, and that sort of thing doesn't just rubberband back afterwards. And so she continues to try to save her.
When I first watched Rebellion, I was speechless even for Homura's arc. Homura is still my favorite character and I really see she's one of the most complex characters in this series ever. Way complex than any other anime characters I've ever known.
I think what this anime does better than most, is show how people are not good or bad. They are just products of their environments. Madoka was given the chance to be the hero and ultimately left Homura behind in the end leaving Homura to cling to a wish that would ultimately never be able to come true. No one even remembered the sacrifices she made, even Madoka barely recognized this fact. Madoka became a god and Homura was left on earth to repeat the same task over and over for eternity until she was scrubbed from the earth like everyone else. If the laws of this world remain true, she was always destined to become the ultimate antagonist to Madoka's perfect world and the only thing Homura could do is justify her pain and suffering with the love she felt for Madoka. Homura isn't good or bad, she's just human. Whether or nor those emotions are embodied in a soul gem or in her heart like a normal person, they are ultimately still human.
The show is not about selflessness. It’s more complicated than that. That’s simplifying the show.. Homura is a grey character. She never claimed to care about the world. She only cares about the people close to her. Everyone is a grey person. No one is just selfless or selfish. Everyone is both. It’s the minority extremes that be completely selfless (which is self destructive in reality) or selfish. She allows Sayaka to live freely and tells her to live a normal life. She may not care about Sayaka but she did something selfless for her. She also did a selfless act for selfish reasons. Kyubey will do anything to get God Madoka. She threw all the despair in the world into Kyubey and made it so he can’t interfere with Madoka anymore. She did this cuz she cares about Madoka and this is what Madoka cares about. Btw Mami is in the wrong in that fight against Homura. They are both at fault. Both defending themselves. Mami started it by not talking with Homura about why she is hurting Bebe and Mami finished the fight as well. Homura never intended to actually kill her as we see her just shoot Mami in the leg. We need to see more to the series to know if her actions has consequences she did not think about. We don’t know anything so for now I will see what she did as a good thing. We saw that Madoka can still tap into her power. She can still be the law of cycles. She just is stuck living as a human. If you remember the flashback episode she did care about everyone besides Madoka. She cried over them. She felt pain. Going through time over and over hardened her heart. And the only light in her life is what she cares about now. I do think Homura should of kept her mouth shut about Madoka. There’s symbolism in the movie. That window Madoka went through to get to Homura. It’s now tide with a ribbon so Madoka can’t get in anymore. She is not a sociopath. I doubt a sociopath would do any of these things. She may have some other mental illness though.
He mentioned it was the duality of selfishness and selflessness. The wishes ultimately failed because many were not selfish enough or were done selflessly. They mention this causes pain later when one wishes for another when one consequence is anticipated over the one that occurs. It was more about owning up to your actual self outside of what how you WANT to be conceived as. The reality VS illusion represented between humans and witches, with magical girls being the grey area. They all find their conclusion when they decide "hey im owning up to that mistake i made/i accept this". -
"Mental illness?" how about extreme trauma. Everything is normal in a crazy enough situation. She watched them die multiple times and disassociates from them. She does this multiple. Times. She watches the same people die. Over and over. Re living these things and remembering all of it. People she cares about. In what universe will that not fuck you up?
Her consequences are quite big if you understand. By turning back time to save madoka she created a situation madoka could erase her earthly existence to save the rest of them. The one person she wanted to save. If anything, the entire arch is the consequences of her actions. It wouldn't exist as it is without them.
"Homura is a grey character. She never claimed to care about the world. She only cares about the people close to her." Well, doesn't that line sound familiar? "Because what you're describing is trying to save everyone in the world, Shirou. Choosing to save someone means choosing not to save someone else. You see, no matter what your intention is, you can only save those who belong to your side. I know it should be obvious, but that is the definition of a Hero of Justice''
God thank you for saying this movie was logical and necessary. For years I couldn’t stand how people kept saying “it’s just trippy” “weird for the sake of weird” ect ect. I absolutely loved it!
This is a text wall. You have been warned. Honestly I’d call this a bad read. You could read the story as a punishment for selfishness, but following that thread means you’d have to accept that the Butcher’s saying that girls should be punished for having desires at all. That’s a very poor take on the show and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, personally. (Edit because I just binged the show again: While Kyubey basically states that making wishes is a mistake in episode 11, Madoka explicitly refutes this in episode 12. 'I don't want to let all those girls cry. All those Puella Magi who believed in their hope and fought against witches. I want them to smile to the bitter end. I will destroy the rules that prevent that happening, I will change them. This is my wish, this is my prayer. Now fulfil it! Incubator!' 'If someone tells me it's wrong to hope. I will tell them they're wrong every time.' 'It'll be alright, it'll surely be alright. Trust in me! After all, Puella Magi grant hopes and dreams!' She changed the rules, that's the point of the ending.) Homura isn’t sociopathic, she’s just seen these people die over and over and over again. Note her response in the first couple of timelines when they die. She’s distraught. That’s not a sociopathic person. Her numbness is indicative of trauma. You also don’t hold the other girls to the same standards as Homura. You say Homura doesn’t wish to straightforwardly bring Madoka back to life or for Walpurgisnacht to not exist. But Sayaka didn’t wish for Kyousuke to love her, Kyoko didn’t wish for her family to be happy, Mami didn’t wish for companionship or her family back. None of the girls wished for what they really wanted, except Madoka. That’s the difference. Homura’s wish to protect Madoka is because she wants to return her kindness. You’ll note this idea of ‘protecting’ someone is common in anime. You could say it’s possessive but I’d argue you’d have to say the same about say… Mamoru and Usagi? I agree that Homura does start to see Madoka more as a theoretical at some point, but I’d argue that’s only normal when she’s forced to discard timelines hundreds of times in pursuit of a single goal. After you see your friends die so many times, you’re going to start approaching it as a puzzle to solve rather than emotionally engaging, for your own sake. Homura does remember who Madoka is, of course she does. She told Kyubey the whole story. She was just playacting for her mother’s sake. Given how Homura has been forced to view Madoka as an object to be saved by virtue of having abandon her again and again, I can absolutely see a scenario in which she locks Madoka in a pocket dimension surrounded by things she thinks would make her happy. What I have a problem with is how she keeps her there knowing Madoka is unhappy. Looking at her thoughts when she’s transforming into a witch isn’t really necessarily a reflection of her true self. If you’ve ever experienced depression or know someone who has, you know how warped your perspective can become. She’s not in her right mind here. Plus, Rebellion breaks a lot of established lore. 1. How the hell can Homura steal Madoka’s powers? People say it’s because she’s a witch at that point but by definition of Madoka’s wish, witches cannot exist in the same space as her. That’s why the Incubators had to separate out Homura into a new dimension. Also Homura was no longer a witch by the time Madoka came to save her, by definition, Witches cannot revert to Magical Girls. 2. Madoka is canonically the most powerful Magical Girl in existence due to having all those fate lines tied around her. Homura is simply not on the same playing field. Edit: In fact, she's not a magical girl at all. She's a god. She doesn't operate by the same rules. 3. Madoka is outside the Law of Cycles. She can’t be prevented from fulfilling her duty. By definition even if she was prevented, that timeline would be undone to ensure her wish is still fulfilled. 4. Homura is suddenly characterised as a creepy stalker/yandere type despite having very little characterisation as such before that point. Following a friend around to ensure she doesn’t die does not a stalker make. On the wishes: Madoka’s wish was actually the most selfish, because it was exactly what she wanted. What Sayaka wanted was for Kyousuke to return her feelings, but she wished for him to get better in the hopes that would happen. It’s not that she didn’t want him to get better, it just wasn’t what she most wanted. So she ended up sacrificing her own life and happiness for a boy who never gave a shit about her. Sayaka wasn’t a bad person, she was just idealistic and so concerned with what a hero of justice ‘should’ do that she neglected her own emotional wellbeing, leading to her becoming a witch. She was always going to despair when she made such a selfless wish, because it meant she lost everything. Mami wanted to keep living, but she didn’t want to be alone. But since she wasn’t specific enough, Kyubey just brought her back and not her family. Again, not selfish enough. Homura wanted Madoka to be happy, but because she was unaware of the nature of the magical girl contract she only realised the only way to make that happen was to ensure she never became a magical girl in the first place… which wasn’t really in the bounds of her wish. Madoka had all the information at her disposal and knew exactly what she wanted, making a wish that had no loopholes. She knew what she was sacrificing and what it meant, but because her wish was airtight that meant she would always be satisfied. She wanted the Witches destroyed by her own hand, past, present and future. That meant she could never die or become a witch herself, or the wish would not be granted. The only way Madoka could die would be if the Magical Girl system was entirely eradicated, which she would also be fine with. Either way she wins. That’s the difference. She doesn’t accept the despair. She refuses to. ‘As long as my wish is granted, I have no need for despair!’
This is a pretty good take, and puts words to my dissatisfaction with rebellion. It undoes the best case ending Madoka earned, so Homura can get a "creepy stalker" ending. It upsets a good (if admittedly incomplete with regard to Homura) story and just leaves us hanging. Plus, it feels a lot like a cash grab. The OG anime is a near perfect masterpiece, and everything they add is like some idiot trying to make a sequel to the Sistine Chapel. Please just stop.
I agree with most of your take, but I have a few notes myself. 1. Homura is no longer the soft girl who wanted to save her friends when she made her wish. She's changed, and her feelings towards all the girls have changed, including Madoka. Madoka was her friend at first, but by last timeline she loves her, her love warped by the trauma of reliving the same cycle of death. What happened in Rebellion was the logical conclusion to Homura, in that I agree with the video. 2. Homura is totally on the same playing field as Madoka. Fate lines were tied around Madoka as much as they were tied around Homura, after all she was the artificer of them all. Not only that, but if I remeber correctly, a witch's power is reflective of the amount of despair they go through because of their wish. And most likely no any other magical girl went through the despair Homura went through. Her feelings of love are not the same as their peer's. She may look the same age, but she lived many timelines (i read that about a hundred, which would mean around 12 years). Her love for Madoka is the kind of love an adult feels. And she had to watch her die a lot of times, even kill her at Madoka's request. I'd say all this woud be enough to make Homura as powerful as Madoka, and that would mean she could bend any of God-Madoka's rules. 3. Rebellion makes a fair portrayal of Homura's complex feelings. I'd say that if people read Homura as a yandere/stalker because of it, that's on them. Her love for Madoka, her personality, and her actions are not that simplistic.
I agree with all of this. This was an interesting video, but also excessively harsh. The worst part for me was the claim that Sayaka outright isn't a good person. WAY too severe, in my opinion. Sayaka was a good person - just a 14 year old put in an overwhelmingly terrible and inescapable situation who eventually broke down. Simple as that.
@@88vicky88 Homura has not aged, she's still physically and mentally 14. Time does not affect her otherwise we would see her physically change. Making Homura an adult adds some creepy paedophilic implications which I don't think was the intention. Homura is not tied to those fate lines because the reason she travelled back in time was hinged on Madoka's fate and not her own. It didn't matter what happened to her, she was allowed to change where Madoka was forced to stay the same. Homura is already powerful due to the despair she carries, that would not change. There is only ONE Homura but there are countless Madoka's all converging upon a single point. That's what they mean by fate lines. Homura didn't change herself through time travel. There was only one of her.
Regarding Homura's memories of the past, it was my understanding that she remembered Madoka and everything regarding the Law of Cycles (and yapping about all this stuff is what provoked the incubators to imprison her). I didn't get the impression that Madoka was telling Homura "what she wanted to hear" in the flower field scene. It's just that the version of Madoka without all of her memories of the past is also a Madoka that hasn't gone through the character development needed to make that sacrifice, aka the "pure" Madoka that she wanted to protect in the first place. I will also say that the witch state doesn't represent delusion insomuch as it reflects an intense (but "permanent") emotional state. Someone might cry hysterically at a funeral and try to jump into the grave, but that doesn't automatically translate to those actions being dishonest or completely irrationaly even if they're maladaptive and basically whacky. I don't NECESSARILY think Homura was acting without Madoka in mind. I thought that the scene in the flower field was her coming to the understanding that Madoka wasn't OK with sacrificing herself and that she'd betrayed Madoka by failing to protect her. Madoka DID disappear and become a non-human entity as a result of her wish. Even if it was played as being something voluntary and good, the material result isn't that much different than when Madoka sacrificed herself and became a witch at the end or Walpurgisnacht (Becoming a witch is bad. Becoming the law of cycles is "good." But Madoka's still "dead" either way). The fake world at the end is the only version of reality where Madoka can be safe and "alive" even if it's twisted. Homura calls herself the devil because she perceives Madoka as a god that she's acting in opposition to. Cool video even though I disagree with these particular interpretations. Nice breakdown on the character's arcs. Of course I don't have as much to say about those because for some reason complaining is easier for me than giving honest praise. =_=
she could try to save mami, but mami cant handle the truth, she would end up killing the others when faced with the truth about magical girls, and mami is an tough foe, homura has no guarantee that she can defeat mami, and if homura dies there is no hope to save then all, trying to save mami makes no sense. we saw at the anime (or maybe at the first 2 movies? ) what mami would do if she kne the truth. sayaka would do the sacrifice no matter what, she was "poisoined" by the love. as for sakura, i dont know, but the selfishness that she showed allowing to become witches , even if they have to harm inocent people, so she can collect more grief seeds... is homura even wrong to not save her? i mean "a thief who robs a thief deserves 100 years of forgiveness", sakura showed no empaty for unknown peoples lifes, why would homura have empaty for her? even if she did, she may have tried to save her in a few timelines, she couldnt so she decided to focus only on madoka. and homura being bad? i dont know, i can't blame her decision, after everything she has suffered only to see madoka's fate being worse than death: to sacrifice her own existence. not to mention that with such sacrifice, QB didnt got any punishment and still tried to use homura as an ginea pig to test the teory of the existence of madoka, sigh. even if homura simply had chose to die in the hands of madoka, there would be no guarantee that QB would not find anotherway to screw thigns up. also you missed the point of, where homura powers came from, magical girls produce energy from their feelings, and the sick love that homura has defy logic, common sense or scale when converted to energy , love dont make sense anyway =p, so its like the power of friendship or power of love that some animes have, QB tried to use despair as the source of power, but and desperate, sinfull, painfull, sick love such as homura's love is much stronger sorry for my english, i hope i made it clear despite my limitations =p
I would point out that she's clearly not bent out of shape by their deaths and acts more distant because she's seen them die hundreds of times and would as a result be inclined to view them as more inevitable, something she can't afford to think about for Madoka. The best comparison I can make is Rika from Higurashi, who was only stirred back into caring about her own life after dying thousands of times because one of her friends literally created a miracle (and she was also turned into a frighteningly powerful witch by it, fancy that). And her perception of Madoka as someone who needs to be protected is the natural conclusion of seeing her get killed by an overwhelming enemy. In that sense, I would argue it's less a possessive sense than a sort of "you can't possibly know what you're dealing with the way I do, therefore you must stay away from this because there's no way it can possibly go well for you".
And the fact her witch name is different is also something. It's even nuttier when they're dressed closer to magical girls yet are called witches. And that witches seem to be born in the girls' darkest, lowest points in their life. I wonder if the creator was a fan of the series and decided for a magical girl show based on that series' concepts, since many elements of the genre existed within the series, even though it is not all classified as one; in fact it couldn't be further from it.
@@ShadowSkyX The witches in Umineko are VERY different from usual conceptions of magical girls, or witches for that matter. That said, Madoka does throw in a lot of references to it (Homura's witch outfit in particular), so I think it was likely a big source of inspiration
Thank you. This video awakened me from the fact that I should not be a part of the "Homura did NOTHING wrong!" group but rather the "Homura did some things wrong" group
I totally agree with you and while I can empathize with Homura's struggle, her relationship with Madoka is super unhealthy and codependent. I really do believe that certain people shouldn't be friends, and I don't think Homura is a good friend (or possible lover) for Madoka. She's manipulative and selfish. She doesn't want Madoka to be happy, she wants Madoka for herself. All of her feelings for Madoka are introspective, not outward. She idolizes and puts Madoka on a pedestal, believing her to be the only person who can help her loneliness. She "loves" Madoka in her own twisted logic, but I don't think Madoka or I would consider that "love". She wants control. She wants to own Madoka.
Objectively speaking I think what you say is right, but I don't judge her too harshly myself due to her age and the experiences she's gone through (I think people can forget sometimes just how young 14 really is). I think Homura could change and improve greatly if she had a few peaceful years of downtime to detox, and to age physically/mentally beyond middle school.
@@DrCasey THANK GOD somebody FINALLY brought up the fact that they're middle schoolers, a time when literally NONE of us were mentally developed, and most of us were struggling with learning these important social and romantic lessons for ourselves- the hard way. That's what makes the series so compelling to me, I had a rough time growing up and sympathize with basically every one of them. Take out the magical girl elements and you have the harsh reality of being 14 all by itself
the nature of homura’s wish demands this to be granted to her (she can never die as long as madoka is alive), so she quite literally cant help it. however this further then explains hers actions in rebellion by keeping a core part of madoka away from her, so thus attempting to give madoka the peace of not knoing homura’s existence (since im sure homura is quite familiar with constantly being plagued by another’s existence regardless of choice)
@@KapnKrowe Not to mention,,, Homura is implied to more or less to have no family, possibly an orphan for that matter. I mean, we never see any family members, and on top of that when we see her past she is in terrible shape and considering suicide. So Madoka finally getting through to her and telling Homura that she does matter, might be the very moment that changed her, that made her consider giving life a chance, because she was the first person who cared. Without Madoka, Homura would literally be dead, magical shenanigans or not. So while it's obviously not a healthy obsession, I think it's also understandable in that context, Madoka is the closest thing Homura has ever had to a family, let alone her heart. Whatever her past is, it's implied very well that Homura literally has nothing to return to. Madoka is forever grateful for her healthy and loving family she has and constantly sees herself as unworthy of any of it, constantly willing to sacrifice herself for someone else's good. But for Homura, Madoka and everything that makes her so kind is the first thing that broke through that veil of nothing she had to look forward to, and she can't understand why someone who matters so much to others would sacrifice herself, while Homura, with absolutely nothing, has to watch her die or get erased from existence. In the end, Homura's efforts aren't in vain, and they give Madoka the time and energy to make a choice that can save Magical Girls from their fate of becoming witches and living in torment, except for one... Homura. In the end, Madoka holds onto hope, and passes it onto Homura with the ribbon. That single event changes everything, it physically attaches Madoka to the world still and to Homura's memories, and thematically places the role of the main character squarely in Homura's place. With the passing back of the ribbon at the end of Rebellion, the torch is now in Madoka's hand. I look forward in seeing how Madoka has to navigate this new world, as just as much as Homura has countless memories of Madoka, it seems that Madoka has some degree of memory and attachment to all those lives and timelines, and even if Homura loves Madoka, it seems for her own sake Homura is desperate to become completely forgotten by her instead, for her own sake (but also probably still struggling to keep her distance to make sure she's safe) .
kyubey - monika (mastermind, goes for the long impossible greater goals compared to lesser mortals > prolonging universe/becoming real 3d girl) madoka - mc (the world revolve around them) homura - yuri (mentally unstable and will sacrifice everything for their obsession once devoting their love to main chars) homura resetting time - yuri knaifu jutsu (both are addicting to them) sayaka - sayori (both also depressed to the max, pretend to be happy to cover it) kamijou - sayori's rainclouds/rope (both put sayaka/sayori into despair) kyoko - natsuki (food and tsundere (and buff str)) mami - natsuki's cupcakes (eaten whole!) bebe/charlotte - everyone who eats natsuki's cupcakes. including players. kyoko's dad - natsuki's dad (abusive dad) witches - ddlc game script (turning everything that is once sweet and fluffy into cthulhu). madoka's ribbon - mc's delete button (ends their respective stories with godlike actions. you can't wear a delete button as hair decoration though).
Madoka Magica is one of the greatest anime masterpieces ever made, and it completely changed the entire mahou shoujo genre. I can't wait for the 4th movie.
Think about what Homura says to Kyoko (and later vice versa) in episode 9: "You can't fight and carry her. You'll get us both killed." Homura is working on a tight deadline with several challenging tasks on her agenda: she has to protect her best friend from harm, try to outwit and outmaneuver Kyubey (who has millennia of experience on his side), and prepare for the battle with the mega-witch Walpurgisnacht. It is simply more practical for Homura to prioritize certain tactics and people over others, however coldhearted her approach may seem. Trying to save everyone would undoubtedly use up valuable time and resources, possibly resulting in no one getting saved. Moreover, just how far are you willing to go with this idea of "She should have done more to save the others"? Should Homura go out of her way to protect magical girls from other cities as well and try to explain Kyubey's true motives to all of them? What makes their lives worth less than those of Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko? Also consider what Mrs. Kaname tells Madoka in Episode 6: "Sometimes, doing the wrong thing for someone is exactly the right thing to do. If you find yourself at a dead end and there's no other options left, doing something the wrong way might do the most good." Homura has already tried unsuccessfully to solve her problem the "right" way for innumerable timelines. At the end of Rebellion, she decided it was finally time to take a risk and do something "wrong" by becoming the worst version of herself to prevent Madoka from being exploited again and inflict retribution on the incubators. If she cannot beat them at their own game, then she can at least slow them down for a while and buy herself some time to think of her next move. Even if Homura's actions in Rebellion are not entirely justifiable, they are still consistent with her character arc and the themes introduced in the original series.
What gets me about when people analyze these characters too is they seem to forget they’re literally children Like of course they’re going to make selfish and nonsensical decisions Their frontal lobe ain’t got shit rn lol Not only that, they’re being actively manipulated and lied to. That’s literally a huge point of the show lol
I think you overlooked her behavior in the earliest cycles of the timeline. She only became indifferent to everyone sans Madoka after coming to the brink of absolute despair multiple times. That she had the strongest connection to Madoka, who is also her only source of hope and thus the one reason she didn't become a witch before Rebellion, is why eventually she only acts in service of Madoka's safety and happiness.
Also note how she doesn't even wish that she was born without health issues. To me, this confirms that she places all her sense of identity and worth into Madoka to where she would be okay with having grown up with the chronic health issues if it meant aligning the stars for them to be classmates, meet, be targeted by witches to be rescued and become friends. She is okay with her childhood sucking if it allows for her to have Madoka in her life. Maybe I'm putting more weight into it than I should because I'm projecting, but if I list a friend in a similar way, my train of thought would lead me to thinking I could have saved them if I didn't have the chronic issues that kept me weak physically or kept my personality weak if not having them would result in a higher self-esteem and being more capable to do things needed to save them. I wonder if she considered wishing this at some point but her train of thought concluded that her health problems and low self-esteem is what helped get Madoka into her life and therefore decided that if anything she wouldn't wish them away.
every few months i come back a rewatch this video because it is the ultimate and perfect summary of why i love the madoka series so much. your writing and presentation are comprehensible and flawless- thank you for making this!!!!!!!!!
First off, I loved this video and thanks for all your insight. My personal view of Homura is that she, by the end of it all, exhausted. Let me explain. Homura didn't not care for the other girls. She traveled through the same but different scenarios. Same shit different day, in where she ultimately ends up with demise. Its just at the point we see her at, most of the time, is the point of becoming numb from doing the same thing over over over again. Exhausted... She seen all of them die and realized that saving them all was not an option. This reveals itself especially when mama, starts killing her friends. She was doing it to save them from becoming witches but it still happened. The scene where the wires are all connected around Homuras and madokas bodies represents just that. That it did happen. Even with going back in time. That's one of the reasons why madoka is the only one she can save and why Homura is exhausted. She became cold as a result of this, among several other issues and struggles. She was obsessed with madoka but it was because, but by far not limited to, knowing madoka was very important and that she was innocent (watching her own innocents die as a result with madoka). Plus, I believe that becoming a witch is the fate worse then death, mostly because it was the fate of all magical girls. Fate is an major key in the whole series. Fate is the very reason why Homura lost hope. Fate is why homura has to kill madoka(innocents) in the first place. Is to prevent her from becoming the worst witch of all time. I hope I wasn't too confusing... Thanks for ur time. Feedback appreciated.
I really didn't know anyone didn't like Rebellion??? I loved every second of it, specially the start with everything being seemingly all right but so many little things being just wrong. I found it really creepy and loved the way they revealed it was actually a witch labyrinth
Thank you for understanding. I'm so tired of seeing critiques on this show that are undeserved. So much about this story was missed by many of its viewers, this is very refreshing and well made
I am really happy to have come across this video again and equally sad to see that Shamelessly Dorky's video series seems to have dissapeared. Thank you for reminding me yet again how much I love this movie.
Your five points correlate to the five stages of grief. 1. Denial 2. Bargaining . 3. Anger 4. Acceptance 5. Depression Then I rewatch the series I feel like each magical girl is symbolic of each stage of grief Mami - Denial Sayaka - Anger Kyouko - Bargaining Homura - Depression. Madoka - Acceptance
I think the deal with Homura "somehow gaining immense power" banks on the nature of wishes briefly touched upon in Sayaka's arc- that the action of each wish has an equal and opposite reaction in the form of a curse. Homura's power being the reaction to Madoka's wish. Which also brings in the question as to what the reaction to Homura's wish would be.
Rebellion was a fantastic movie and it left me in aw from Homura's actions towards the end. Th ending still sticks too me after only seeing it a couple days ago. I feel like a rewatch is an order for me since I am still rather confused on what Homura thought should be done. In the end, she's honestly one of the most interesting characters I've seen in anime.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh the soundtrack is giving me like sickening nostalgia...does anyone understand what I mean? Man what a flashback to middle school and the intense fever dream that this show was. Still, it definitely made me idk DIFFERENT, it was quite the experience and I'm glad I watched it back in middle school, I feel like the me now couldn't appreciate it.
This gave me a new perspective on Homura as a character and her actions through out the series. This video kind of blew my mind. GREAT job articulating this theory! It deeply enriches the meaning of the glorious twist end of the film. Homura's wish to save Madoka over and over again appears to be selfless, but at the end of the day the wish enables Homura to control Madoka's fate-- and that is selfish. It makes the twist at the end seem less contrived and actually meaningfully tragic. Love your vidya !!
The main thing I look at when thinking about Homura as a good or bad character is her intent. She did a lot of bad things, she made a lot of mistakes, but her intention was always good, she always meant to do good by Madoka, in fact she got so obsessed with this objective, that it totally eclipsed her sense of reason, she was overcome completely and boiled down only to this original mission she set herself. It's a tragic story, a character who was SO devoted to doing good that she lost sight of what is right and wrong along the way.. But, the seed that sewed all of these events was so pure and good, and in my opinion that's what's so sad about Homura Ameki :(
I totally agree! It took me three watches of Rebellion to really get the movie on a narrative level (symbolism is not really my thing), but between the 2nd and 3rd watch I read a blog post about Homura's obsessive and possessive nature, and it really put all the pieces of the puzzle together for me. Great video!
Let me clear a couple things up about this video. I'm not trying to say that Homura is by any means a bad person, just not a good one. While it's true that she does care about the other characters besides Madoka, it's always an afterthought, and when things go poorly with them, she's quick to recover, even before she becomes the jaded warrior that people use as an excuse, like when Mami dies in the first timeline, or when she kills Oktavia. There's a lot more I could have said in this video but it was already getting long and I wanted to keep the topic focused, but maybe I can get into that sort of thing some other time.
I don't see why prioritizing Madoka's life over the others makes Homura less of a good person, considering that any one of us in real life would do the same thing for our loved ones. It's easy to sit back and say that Homura should have tried harder for the others, but anyone with real life experience should know that things tend not to work out that way more than they do. Sometimes life just forces you to choose, and that's the situation that Homura was forced into.
The fact of the matter is, the character dynamics don't allow Homura to save everybody. The moment Homura starts acting against Kyubey in any form is the moment she gets on Mami's bad side, and being on Mami's bad side means being on Sayaka's bad side. Kyubey is a master of using people's emotions against them, so the very fact that Homura wants to keep it away from Madoka, it's biggest target in the history of humankind, means that Kyubey will turn Mami against her. Who will Mami trust in this scenario? Will she trust Kyubey, who has been her sole companion for an unknown amount of time, or will she trust Homura, who she has never heard of and doesn't hold the same values that Mami holds so dear.
From there we go to Sayaka. Sayaka's first impression of Homura was not a good one, since she was hunting a cute and seemingly harmless animal and nearly got her best friend caught up in it as well. Of course, Mami comes swooping in to save the day and Sayaka from then on idolizes her as a "hero of justice". Who is Sayaka going to trust more, the villain that hurts harmless and innocent animals for no reason, or the hero of justice that she wants to emulate? Add into that just how hard headed Sayaka is about everything and there's just no way for those two to get along.
Kyoko is a wild card, and the only one that doesn't fully trust Kyubey. The problem is that once Sayaka gets to her, she becomes the chink in Kyoko's armor that Kyubey can exploit.
Madoka is Homura's only in to the rest of the cast since she is willing to look past Homura's cold exterior and see the person underneath. Unfortunately, Mami is a veteran magical girl and isn't likely to listen to what Madoka has to say anytime soon, and Sayaka is too rigid in her hero complex to listen to what Madoka has to say about a villain like Homura.
Mami and Kyouko are already beyond saving since they're already magical girls before the start of Homura's loops, so the absolute best she could manage with them is to get them through the battle with Walpurgisnacht, and that is under the huge assumption that she can somehow prevent Kyubey from turning Mami against her and luring Kyouko to her death through Sayaka.
The plot of this series is essentially one big chess match between Homura and Kyubey. The problem is that said chess game is vastly unbalanced. Kyubey is a player with a perspective of the entire board, and he holds multiple pieces that he can utilize in various ways. On the other hand, Homura is a player that is at the same time a piece on the board. She only has a king in the form of Madoka and herself as a queen. Being that Homura is a piece on the board she also has a more limited perspective of the battlefield, so while she is forced to deal with one situation Kyubey can be off maneuvering other pieces elsewhere. The only advantages that Homura actually has here are her time stop power that Kyubey knows nothing about, the fact that she can reset the board and that she has a limited understanding of her opponent's tactics. These are all outweighed by Kyubey's millenia of knowledge about humans, its much greater intellect and its broader perspective and ability to be in multiple places at once.
To sum it all up, Homura did the best she could with the situation she was given, and to fault her for prioritizing Madoka over the others is pretty unfair, especially once you look at the broader perspective and see everything she's up against.
With all that said, what Homura actions at the end of Rebellion, while definitely staying true to her motivations and character, are not quite so justifiable. By messing with the law of the cycle, Homura has taken things to a scale that involves all magical girls, meaning that this isn't just about her and Madoka anymore. Sure, as Homura said she only took a piece of the law of the cycle, but there's no way of knowing what the repercussions of that could be. It's like saying that a flea bite could never kill a person, but fleas can deliver some pretty nasty diseases through their bites. While Homura's intentions for Madoka in Rebellion may have been for the best, that doesn't change the fact that her actions were shortsighted at best and negligent at worst. That doesn't make her a bad person though, it makes her human, and humans tend to do things to hurt the people closest to them. Unfortunately, in this case Homura is messing with forces she may well not fully understand, and the cost could be greater than what she is able to pay.
@@darkprinc979
I really enjoy you're perspective of things. One, you're able to come to grips that Homura isn't at fault, and the odds were against her.
Two, Dispite what i previously said, your also able to admit Homura has done something rather unthinkable. And there will be consequences.
Yes, I think that having a balanced perspective is important. I'll admit that for a while I was in the "Homura did nothing wrong" camp, but after giving the situation more thorough consideration I had to admit that yes, Homura did do some things wrong. It's interesting because the very parts of her character that enabled her to struggle through the events of the series are what also caused her to fall so low in Rebellion, or in other words her greatest strengths became her greatest weaknesses.
@@darkprinc979
"Did some things wrong"
I know when people use tye quotation marks, they usually try to prove something the other party said wrong. But, note im not doing that.
Anyway, it's just funny. I recentlt read a page about a number of things homura did wrong in the final timeline.
Dispite use not knowing what homura did in every single timeline, this person boiled it down fairly well. But I'll be boil it down.
1: Her not confining/trusting in the other girls more.
This one problem, could of solved quite a few things. Like, not having to constantly butt heads or go against them, having a better chance at beating Walspurg, and possible having a better relationship with Madoka because of this.
I know Homura has basically given up on trying to save everyone. But, honestly, she doesn't need to. I always believed there's a possible way Homura could of prevented everyone's death, while Madoka keeps out of the magical girl business. And yet, she doesn't have to be buddy buddy with everyone. Since Homura sucks at social skills.
And 2: Homura, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU TELL KYUUBY THAT!?
Homura just had to run her mouth about Madoka. Because she couldn't believe her hazy memories, this is even further proven in the 'Rave Arc' manga. She needed reassurment, so, why go to the backstabbing demon!? Why not Mami or Koyoko!? FUCK HOMURA.
As much as the whole devil Homura thing could of been prevented, i personally think this was faith, an inescapably destiny at work. As, Homura's wish was never fulfilled. But, still...dammit...
But, yeah. That's just what i wanted to say. The article was pretty good.
So until SHAFT finally make that damn sequel ( hopefully another series instead of a 4th movie, so they can add the other magical girls from the spin off manga & Magia Record & flesh them all out) where Homura either redeems herself ( which is very unlikely) or gets punished for her actions ( which THIS one is very likely) Homura is A selfish, hypocritical unlikable bitch who needs to be burned at the stake and rot in hell for all eternity!
"You dare call yourself human?"
"No, of course not. And neither should you."
bruce wayne exactly
I can hear homura voice on this comment
The way She claps is creepy
Sorry to bother, when did these lines happen? I really don't want to spend hours watching it again just to hear a single line.
@@UncleButterworth they did binged all of it in the last two days
11:20 She becomes a "demon" because her and Madoka's wish conflict with each other. She can't protect Madoka if Madoka is a god, thus her wish can't be fulfilled as long as Madoka is a god. Madoka specifically wished for witches to be eradicated, meaning that when all witches have been erased, her wish is fulfilled. Homura is the last witch. Unlike other magical girls though, Homura's wish is incompatible with the law of cycles. If she disappears after being a witch, she can no longer protect Madoka. Thus, to fulfill Homura's wish, the universe needed to be rewritten again, and Homura had to become an entity that was neither witch nor human but just as powerful as Madoka.
ik i’m a year late but holy shitz ur right-
T h i s. 100% what I think is correct.
I remember this because I remember her wish clashed with Madoka's
Wow, I never thought of it that way but I believe you're on the money with this!
*Clap Clap Clap* Congrats You’ve cracked the Code People Was trying to decipher Pour yourself an Glass Of What you love cause you deserve it
This is exactly why I love Homura's character. You don't have to be a "good person" to be an interesting character.
vanilladeerest that’s not even the rule.
So that’s why some people love Griffith
I love mostly villainous and rude characters but I honestly hate Homura, you don't have to be a good person to be interesting but Homura isn't really likeable.
Himiko Toga I like Homura, but I’m not crazy for her like most of her fans, but why you hate her?
Everton Harvey because she’s selfish and possessive.
She can’t save madoka so creates an reality just so she can be with her... against her will.
People arguing over whether the girls's wishes were selfish or not:
you have to learn to distinguish among what the character *thought* she wanted, what the character *actually* wanted, and what the character *needed* at that point. Those three things aren't the same.
i love this comment thank you
the fact that some people didn’t grasp it even though it was directly stated in the show 💀
Exactly people are calling Mami selfish because she wanted to survive a car crash like what??? She needed to survive her parents were already past tense and Kyubey probably wouldn't let Mami save them.
@@etoileshine1011 Yeah, the fact that people would describe self-preservation as "selfish" simply means they don't know the meaning of the Word lol
@lorenzomeulli750 and even if it WERE selfish, (which it is not) these girls are 14 when Kyubey picks them. 14 year old girls are not gonna pick "end world hunger" instead of "save me from this car crash" or "heal my crush so he can play violin" or "let me go back and meet my best friend again, give me strength to protect her" Most girls wishes are inherently selfish but Mami was protecting herself and a representation of the demon Mephistopheles made a Faustian deal for her soul and took advantage of a young girl.
@@patrickobrien6251also, the people criticizing her wouldn't do any differently in that situation.
So basically Homura is the “must protect cinnamon roll” idea gone too far
She went "hnnnng must protect" and then proceeded to make a version of her that doesn't exist even though she evolved from that cinnamon rol
@@KoshkiBlin04 the madoka in homura's world is, as far as i understand it, the real madoka, the same way that sayaka and co are the same people. she just separated what made madoka "madoka" from her godly power
I love this comment
At least this isn't a super creepy take like I had to experience in another anime which shall not be named half a decade ago.
When you want to see your girlfriend so much that you became evil and re-write the entire universe
Hey, Dino! Nice profile picture :)
@@bannedaccount3752 Thanks :D !
why am i laughing so hard at your comment-?
Truly a genius idea for a channel
everything for ur girl
Idk if this really matters but I also noticed she’s the only one that uses actual realistic modern weapons while the other girls uses romanticized version of their weapons to fight
Well... Those aren't "realistic weapons", they're just real weapons. Homura's true weapon is that shield with the sand clock. Unlike Mami, Sayaka or Kyoko, she can't summon magic weapons like swords or lances, so she just stealth all those weapons from some criminal bands and store a large number in her shield-
PD: Sorry my engrish-
SnKanon
You are correct, but on a meta level Malcolm is right too. Her using real weapons makes sense in-universe, but it does also highlight to the audience that she's a much more grimdark character than the other magical girls. It's likely that the production team that made the series intentionally gave her a magical shied that forced her to use real guns and explosives when fighting.
@@helenanilsson5666 Mmm... I'm not sure about that. She could chose to fight with "normal" weapons (a sword, a baseball bate, anything) because when you can stop the time, it doesn't really matter your weapon, just efficience. The reason she chose guns it was because she was forbidden from using explosives from the other girls because they said it was dangerous. And the reason she chose explosives it was because she's weak. She has a weak body complex and that's all. Mami uses fire weapons too, and we know she can make almost everything with her ribbons, even modern weapons or a tank, but she just don't like them-
Sorry, I just think you're overthinking this matter-
@@SnKanon In a series as ripe with symbolism as PMMM? Unlikely. I think Malcolm and Helena have hit the nail on the head. What you're describing is the in-universe justification for a creative decision. Same as how Sayaka's swords and outfit are clearly a visual representation of her idealism and "knight in shining armor" illusion, Homura being the only one having to rely on real weapons and then using actual firearms stolen from the military is a nice symbolic contrast between both her awareness of their actual reality (compared to the idealised worldview of the other girls, who never knew the full truth about the cycle) and the power and strength of her resolution. Homura getting a shield that she uses to manipulate time, instead of a normal weapon and having the travelling be just a function of her wish, or having it be a secondary power, or located in something else on her, was a decision someone designing and writing these characters made. Making her use real military firearms in-universe is her trying to be useful, but from the creative standpoint of the people inventing this character and her entire story? It's a very clear contrast between her and all the other girls.
@@irisa198 Well... That's your point of view. Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not saying you're right either. You could be wrong. I myself could be wrong. The entire fandom could be wrong. We can't say for sure that one thing is true o false just by our interpretations because PMMM can be analized in a lot of ways (Whats more, it was done already).
For me, I don't think that part is true, just that-
yes. also as a critical parody of the magical girl genre,
i’m so glad that homura exists, and her character arch in rebellion happened. this series demonstrate the issues with romantic/platonic infatuation with people and flaws with Idealizing “self sacrifice” that often get portrayed as “noble characteristics” in normal shows of this genre.
instead of telling young girls “give yourself completely to your ideals and the people you love and everything will work out” like most other shows, this one says “please consider how you really feel and what you need, and realize that they won’t always line up with the people you love nor your ideals”
Thank you for saying this. It's extremely important.
Being "noble and selfless" is pushed as the only legitimate approach to things - when in many [if nor most] cases, it's really just extremely self-destructive.
Well said
Damn nice write up
More like a deconstruction than a parody imo
It's been a while since this comment was made, but I just wanted to say thank you, because it reminded me again how I myself probably idealize self sacrifice too much too.
I love how Madoka Magica has so many layers and thematics with only 12 episodes and a movie. Kudos to Urobuchi
And everyone else who worked on it, madoka as Urobuchi said isn't just his work. Heck he only made the basic draft of rebellion and let everyone else on the team go nuts with the symbolism
Most of it is based off of the works of and surrounding Goethe. Kyube is Mephistophiles from Goethe's Faust. Sayaka is the little mermaid from The Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Anderson. Her witch is even named after a poet who admired Goethe but that Goethe thought very little of. Fruede loved Goethe and quoted him often and the little chant you hear the familiars saying "fort, da, fort, da" is a game that Frued came up with for his toddler grandson and means here, gone, here, gone. The runes you see all over episodes actually translate to lines from Goethe's Faust meant to harken back to the Faustian deal made with Kyube. Madoka is supposed to be Gretchen, and Homura is Faust their meeting ultimately leading to the others ruin. Madokas witch is literally named after Gretchen. I could go on but I won't
@@patrickobrien6251 for your information the symbolism was entirely inserted by the rest of the studio during production but the original draft was not based on goethe's faust. this was said by urobuchi himself; it was done after the fact by the staff. goethe was not an influence on the conception of the anime.
it's only a human nature to experience the "decay effect" on your personality if you repeat something way too much, at some point you start losing track of what you originally wanted and keep doing the same thing as if you were a robot, this is clearly noticeable with Homura as she starts to become colder the more she repeats the same events, and although her main objective was to live with Madoka happily ever after, she acted cold toward her through the first arc despite the fact that she had an endless amount of time to spend with her best friend.
what i am trying to say that every human has sanity, and simply going beyond it's limit will eventually turns you into something else, and that doesn't make you a bad person.
Isn't that literally the description of going hollow?
I don’t think people should even use “good” or “bad” to define a situation that has this level of complexity
this is one of the best replies.
Actually, Homura somehow reminds me of the Servant Emiya from Fate Stay Night. He first has the ideal of being a Hero of Justice and saving everyone, going so far as to make a contract with a higher existence Alaya. After his death he then works as a counter guardian to ‚save humanity‘ but that just means he kills all people throughout human history that threaten the existence of humanity. So he is in a constant cycle of being killing. After a few millenia he turns to become sarcastic cynical etc. Just like Homura, he is caught in an endless cycle of losing the things important to him.
At the same time, Homura I'd busy not just keeping watch on Madoka but also setting up for another attempt at destroying the witch
I think the real reason Homura suddenly became so powerful is because her soul gem wasn't tainted with despair. The one thing I noticed about Homura is that in the new timeline where Madoka is a god nothing causes her despair. Pain is pleasure for her. Being hurt is bliss. Using her magic is a gift. Each of these different things will lead her to the one place she dreams to be again:
With Madoka.
There's no despair in Homura's heart. Once Madoka became a god all semblance of that was destroyed. She didn't randomly receive immense power. Her soul gem became tainted with something that was never accounted for and in turn became overloaded and morphed into something completely new. Something completely different.
Her immense power is at the fault of no one except the incubators. They designed the soul gem with two things in mind; happiness and sadness. Hope and despair. They're creatures who lack emotion and as we've been shown time and time again everyone Kyuubey interacts with is replaceable. Because of that they had no comprehension for the idea of 'love'. There was never a thought in their minds that soul gems could be tainted with anything other than despair.
Homura's progression was set in stone when Madoka made that wish. Once Madoka became a god there was no logical progression except what was unfolded.
Not to mention a tainted soul gem messes with a magical girl. Sayaka straight up murdered two dudes on a train for talking about using their girlfriends because her soul gem was tainted with despair. She wasn't thinking logically and acted out of impulse. Homura ripped Madoka from godhood on impulse. She forced her into a universe where she shouldn't belong without thinking at all. Of course the timeline reset; it was being forced to insert someone who had previously been removed.
And her being in control honestly just seems like the way the timelines handle resets. Whoever brings it on ends up in control. Madoka was in control the first time because her wish changed everything. Homura was in control the second time because her actions changed everything.
Apologies for the small essay. This is my favorite series and I have invested hundreds of hours into speculation and explanations for things. Your video did a wonderful job explaining her progression as a character. It's nice to see others agreeing that Rebellion is a good movie. I hope they make a fourth movie to give us a much more concrete resolution on the series. Fantastic job!
I think if the incubators wnet through with their thoughts they could have easyly foreseen something like Homura happening. Kyubei stated that the emotions of humans (as impossible to understand they are) yield the power to overcome entropy. The incubators just figured that hope and dispair was the pair of opposite emotions that yielded the highest energy output and left it at that.
The Soulgem is just a hardened physical manifestation of the soul - the thing that feels emotions. All of them.
Spending a bit (or lot) of academic thought on it, and they might have realized, that it must be possible to taint the gems with things different from dispair, transforming magical girls into something different than witches.
Thinking about that, it'S possible they might decide to start experiments when they get the idea. The law of cycles fucked thing up and enabled them to come up with the hypothesis Magical girls can turn into witches and set up an experiment that was able to test that. The fact that incubators are able to isolate a Soulgem from the law of cycles means that Madokas power is in fact pretty limited too. Following that train of though, I start to feel that Homura breaking out of containment, removing a part of the law of cycles and create a new world might be better in the long run.
i agree except for homura impulsively removing madoka from being a goddess. when she is a witch, she’s trying to kill herself inside the labyrinth before madoka can come get her. she knows kyubey is just going to enslave her. she even tells her friends that she *has* to die there. however, once she is “rescued”, she kind of had no choice but to take madoka and bring her back to earth. kyubey’s species was just going to use her. i doubt madoka will become her enemy because of her nature. she’s very forgiving and logical.
@@solm.6184 I don't think the incubators would have been able to harness Madoka's power because the only people she would come for would be people she was friends with anyone else she sends 'angels' like Sayaka and Nagisa. This was the one moment where Madoka, in all of her glory, would leave her plane of existence to take someone into the law of cycles. And right before she comes down they blast away all the thousands of incubators in the area leaving the place barren. She only came down because she knew it was safe. I'm certain that had Homura not pulled her from godhood she would have been safe. The incubators would have obviously continued to *try* and get to Madoka but would have ultimately failed because, let's be honest here, she's a literal god. She would be able to destroy any incubators that came at her. Not to mention she's all knowing when it comes to magical girls. She knows when every single magical girl falls into despair. She even knew about the whole Kyuubey trying to create a witch thing. I mean Sayaka and Nagisa reference her knowing and the fact that Madoka herself sent them to help protect Homura. Madoka is smart and she wouldn't give the incubators any opportunity to take control of her.
BB I just remember Homura yelling at Kyubey for planning to use Madoka when she became a witch or somewhere along those scenes. I need to rewatch it but I know that Homura took her down because of Kyubey
@@solm.6184 Homura 100% ripped Madoka from godhood for fear of Kyuubey taking control of her. But it's extremely unlikely that the incubators would have succeeded in using her power or harnessing it at all. They thought they could control Madoka but she's literally a god on an alternate plane of existence. Not only is she extremely powerful, powerful enough to wipe them out quite frankly, but there's no way she would ever let them control her or her powers.
If anything I'd have to say Homura is a very morally grey/ambiguous character. Its also important to keep in mind that she spent the equivalent of 12 years from the original timeline in EP 10 to the start of the series. No doubt the mental and emotional trauma from that many resets had a big part to play in her personality and mental state.
im so sorry that i read it as gay-
@@rrosachinensis they’re both right🤷🏾♀️
Dont forget, she spent 12 years of real time... how much more time did she spend with time frozen? She may have had hundreds of years to dwell on her failures....
@@AC-sf3tt Probably gets balanced out by her forced resets. I imagine she probably didn't make it to the end of the month on some runs
@@AC-sf3tt Well I remember somebody telling me that she can't stop time indefinitely but only for the same amount she returned in time, so she is twice that time at most. Either that or it is limited by the amount of grief seeds
Its hard to believe its been 5 years since Rebellion. I never much agreed with the opinion that Rebellion did something wrong and heavily enjoyed its progression of Homura as a character. My only problem with the movie is the ending didn't feel "Complete" and that there was more story to be told. Great video, it was nicely produced and you iterated your points very clearly.
Aozora Eyes It was stated before that Rebellion was never meant to be the end, so I don't have much of a problem with it ending the way it did.
its ok there will be another movie
@@olliethebunny2539 the question is When . There haven't been any updates since 2015 (apart from an answer about the Concept movie in 2017 with enjoy magia record for now ). That's why most people aren't calm . We have no news apart from the magia record anime...
@@aapferb694 the problem is that there's still no sequel on the horizon
@@isauldron4337 yeah, its super sad because THE SHOW CANNOT JUST END LIKE THIS MY LIFE WILL NOT BE COMPLETE AHHHH
Everyone's wish was selfish in nature. Mami wanted to survive the car crash. Kyoko wanted her father to be able to put food on the table for her and the family. Sayaka wanted a boyfriend. Even Madoka arguably only made her wish to expunge her guilt over the living hell she had caused for Homura.
There is only one girl in the series I can think of who made a truly selfless wish. Charlotte, the Mami-chomping clown dragon herself, who made a contract so that her dying mother could eat her favourite cheesecake before passing away.
Her name is Bebe Btw.
Even her wish is not truly selfless. As seen in magia record, she wishes for cheesecake after her mother yells at her. She simply wants to be loved by her mom.
you say it as if selfishness is a bad thing,
altruism is nothing but masochism,
its pathetic, greed has all ways been a good fundamental of human nature without it we would be living in caves.
pathetic cucks all wanna be goody two shoes but in reality they just want recognition for their selfless actions
I gotta defend Madoka, she has no guilt of becoming friends with Homura, if Homura became obsessed with Madoka than it's Homura's fault. What Madoka did was not selfish and never will be, at least in my point of view...
Arguably, yes, but then she could have just wished witches including Walpurgisnacht to come into mitakihara. She chose to erase all witches instead. This choice was not much out ov guilt, more out of a desire to help all magical girls.
“Sayaka starts out wanting to be a hero of justice but after a few days her view of society falls apart.”
That’s quick
Juan Pablo Robayo i always found sayaka to be so annoying and weak. if she really wanted to be a hero of justice, she would’ve tried doing what madoka did. she sacrificed herself for one person and couldn’t do it. i think madoka really stands for justice as sayaka has *always* been in conflict with homura. kyoko too. madoka was the only one willing to truly sacrifice herself for the greater good and didn’t complain. not to mention she wished she didn’t save hitomi because her little rich boy crush liked her instead lmao
@@solm.6184 1. A normal person would most likely fall into despair if they knew the soul was taken out of their body, and eventually they would turn into the very thing that they have been kiiling and hated the most. It took a person a lot (and I mean A LOT) to stay sane.
2. Sacrificed yourself for sb else is a hard thing to do, even for adults. I think you are expecting alot from a teenage girl (who is only 13-14 at that) to sacrifice herself, sth not even adults can do it. Now, think back to your teenage years (if you've already past that phase) do you think you at the time can do it?
3. On the other hand, at the time when Sayaka put her hatred on other ppl, her soulgem was pretty much tained, and we already know what a stained soulgem can do with a magical girl. So while her actions weren't good, they were inderstandable.
Aira Ichigo sorry but i can’t let sayaka slide. she was told by mami that it wasn’t a good idea to make a wish for someone else. we know sayaka’s true wish was for the boy to love her back and appreciate her. within a few days, she spirals out of control? even kyōko implies that she’s dumb. even in the timelines that they do date, she still becomes a witch bc he focuses his time on music rather than her. i’d understand if she wished for everyone with a disability to be healed. sayaka is so weak and selfish. she kills the guys on the train too. the only purpose sayaka served was to prove that girls become witches. but she still acts like this hero of justice? she’s the most pathetic character in my eyes.
@@solm.6184 if that so, then have it your way.
sol m. “She still becomes a witch because he focuses on music rather than her in the timelines where they do date”
So he’s hyper focused just like in the alpha timeline where he dates her friend instead.
Lowkey that’s lame. It shows she didn’t know him that much.
i think the reason homura doesnt show more emotion for sayaka, mami or kyoko is because in every timeline she knows what happens when they get more involved, sayaka is pretty much destined to become a witch, even if she didnt, she was the only one that when homura told everyone about the true intentions of kyubey she shurg it off with "what would kyubey win by doing that?", when mami learns the truth about the magic girl cycle she goes full panic mode and tries to kill everyone and then herself, and kyouko is the more rational option but she pretty much always dies killing sayaka, madoka is literally the only resonable person in the group for her.
edit: wow, this comment blow up! thank for the likes magical girls fellows enthusiastic! also forgive me for the grammar, english is not my first language
But she also knows what happens with Madoka, if it was that easy to reason with her she shouldn't have to struggle for so long to stop her from being a Magical Girl.
She, until some point attempted to save the others, she just ended giving up on them since they are not Madoka.
There is even a timeline where Mami gives up on wanting to kill the others after a huge fight with Kyoko, is not impossible to reason with her is rather difficult, but Homura has not enough will to save her and go to extremes as she has with Madoka
She passed from also wanting to save the others, to be indifferent to their fate, to use them and sacrificed them if she has to in order to save Madoka.
Sayaka: never believed in homura/had doubt with her. She was always distrusting.
Mami: to emotional on the inside but stubborn on the outside
Kyoko: was never in all of the timelines to begin with. Is the least relevant. Only serves in Sayaka's arc rather than homura or anyone else.
@@AarenYASS While it is true that she's probably the least relevant, saying Kyouko wasn't in every timeline is a bit of a stretch. As we see in episode 10, Sayaka brings her up while brushing off Homura's explanation of how they'll turn into witches, even though Kyouko never appeared once up to that point in the episode, so Homura clearly met her offscreen during the first couple timelines (I still need to play through the PSP game, but I'm betting it showcases their first encounters in detail). Remember, it isn't just Sayaka that Kyouko's connected to, she has a past with Mami as well, so she's bound to show up in Mitakihara somehow or other in every timeline and play at least some sort of role (but yes, her interaction is fairly minimal so far as Madoka and Homura are concerned). Then again, I'm not familiar with all the spin-offs, so I could be wrong.
Homura’s more attached to Madoka because she was her first and closest friend, plain and simple.
she does care about them, she just is so use to losing them she acts cold towards them. madoka brings out her more vulnerable and desperate side, though.
Homura somehow manages to be completely selfless yet also inherently selfish and her character dynamic is so incredibly complex. I can’t wait to see what’s in store~ Magia Records anime is supposed to be coming this 2019!
interesting...
@@emanueleragno5616 im glad youve added so much to the conversation........
@@Spectrum16 lul
This 2019? It’s not like there’s gonna be another one
@@peppaPig-nc8ho ever heard of 2019 that came 4038 years in the past?
i know i'm comedy god thank you thank you
I almost feel like Homura isn’t in love with Madoka the girl but “Madoka” like the vague outline of a character that’s caring. She’s almost in love with like a thought with something from her imagination. Like a fake, idealized version of a once “real” person she knew for like a month
It's kind of like loving your childhood hero, and the idea of them, and then becoming devastated when you meet them in real life and are disappointed
@@thanhavictus uhem... it reminds you to the incredibles movie? ? :v
Ironicaly Homura gets beaten in rebelion because she really was a sort of cheater. Mami is flat out better fighter of the two.
@@michalsoukup1021 what do you mean sort of a cheater
@@neferpitou1788 Homura leverages her knowledge of the past timelines in the series
she was just a kid :( it makes sense that she wasnt a "good person", she was an incredibly traumatized middle schooler. she watched people die when she was like 12. and then she was manipulated by kyubey into becoming a magical girl, taking on the role of protecting humanity from monsters. as a child. her youth was stolen from her. tbh i really feel for homura as someone who has experienced repeated childhood trauma
yeah, the whole "her motives weren't pure so she's bad" approach this video has towards the characters is really off-putting.
Hurt people hurt people.
She was a victim. Undisputedly. That doesn't excuse her actions, only gives them context. Context isn't absolution.
She can be a bad person BECAUSE of the things that happened to her. That doesn't make her good, just empathetic. We can understand why she does what she does just like we can understand why an abused dog lashes out at strangers.
We still wouldn't take that doggo around kids.
@NaturesFlame The problem isn't even really whether or not Homura is a good person, it's the weird moral puratinism pushed on the characters in a way that is often targeted at girls in particular for not being perfect paragons of virtue. See also the way that Sayaka and Mami are talked about in this video as well for reasons why it's a little uncomfortable. Even before Homura did anything even morally gray, she was accused of showing signs of "sociopathy" for not reacting in an emotional enough manner for this person's liking. All in all, this really just wasn't the best video for discussing Homura's or any of their characters in the most intelligent way. There is definitely substance to Homura always having been flawed, but the execution was just kind of... dumb.
Yes I think homura and trying to decide her morals and decide her will is end to no avail because she is a child not fully developed not fully thought through, and still growing, homura as a whole is a child, someone with questionable morals, and madoka magica has a bunch of stuff that is exaggerated, kids don't see certain things as wrong, thats why kids are more prone to stealing because consequences are loose, and a difficult concept for children to understand
@@beatofromuminekorealnotcli4574 what did she do that was actually wrong
The manga (though not cannon) shows an interesting side of Homura and it points out one of the biggest problems with the original ending. If only Homura remembers Madoka and whenever she talks about her it sounds like she's talking nonsense, she ends up with two options: Carry on with her live and eventually forget Madoka (not literally but you get what I mean) or to carry the burden of her memory in a world where she didn't even exist to begin with. If she was able to accept the fact that Madoka is gone, she wouldn't even set the events in motion that started the series; wishing to protect her. So her poor mental state in Rebellion and in the manga (and in the first timeline) just shows that Homura hasn't learn her lesson: She hasn't learned to deal with loss and grieving.
I think this makes Homura a compelling character, to the point that people have even sided with her ("Homura did nothing wrong") or, if they don't completely side with her, at least they understand why she acted like she did. At the end of the day, we all now how hard is letting go and how tempting is the idea of delaying letting go something or someone, even to the detriment of that thing, that someone or even ourselves.
Well she does embody the first stage of grief, Denial.
I think her first mistake is spilling the bean.
@@ShadowSkyX It's more like she goes through all the stages of grief EXCEPT acceptance, lmao. She just cycles back to "denial" every time she reaches "depression"
@@ShadowSkyXgirl’s been on that stage for quite a long time (12 years)
I had to watch the last movie again, and... I object with your opinion, Homura isn´t a Sociopath at all, in fact, when she recaps the most important events in the several timelines she had to travel for Madoka´s sake, She suffered, not only by Madoka´s death, She also suffers with every other "Holy Quintet" member´s death... But she repeated the timeline so much, that she gave up about save any other than Madoka.
Even in the last timeline, she is so reserved, but, she really tried to save Mami, but Mami imprisioned her in a Ribbon cage, she really tried to prevent Sayaka from Making a contract with Kyubey, Ok she didn´t do it with touch, but she tried to save Sayaka aswell, even when Homura offers her a griefseed, because she knew that Sayaka would end up becoming into a witch... again, and Sayaka refuses it.
Homura really tried to save everyone as much as She could, but I think she is like a Vietnam´s soldier with only 14 year old, repeating the same batlle so many times. Homura had to watch thousand of times the death of every member of her Gang, not only Madoka.
At the end of the anime In fact Homura, as Madoka said, Homura was the best friend she would ever had, not only because of trying to save her, also all the gang. Concluding that Homura really is a good person, even the best person in the entire anime, just below Madoka herself.
Now passing to the last movie events, She isn´t a bad person either, even Mami told her "At least you still have somekind of concern about my life" Because even with that awesome battle, between both of them, Homura hesitated in order to kill Mami, and only tried to hurt her, paralizing her, with a shot in the leg...
And when she decided to become a witch for Madoka´s sake, again, she counted with Kyoko and Mami, to kill her... That disturbing scene with Madoka and Homura in a meadow, and how Madoka splashed in a pink liquid when she hit the floor, Its whats hapening inside Homura´s head "No matter what I do, I will never save her, I hate myself, I only deserve to be destroyed... The only way to save her, is to destroy me"
Homulily itself. She has handcuffs, she is crying, the ribbon of her dress is destroying everything in order to give the other magical girls, a reason to kill her... And some erie element in Homura´s witch form, is that she is walking directly to a guillotine, so she has to be destroyed, yes or yes, by her own "green mile" like a guilty of witchcraft or by the other magical girls, for Madoka´s and every other Holy quintet member´s sake, specially Madoka´s sake.
Whe she transforms in a "devil" She is truly insane, but not like a sociopath, she has a terrible case of PTSD , because she know than even if Madoka save her, and could be with her for etternity, like every other magical girl like Sayaka or Nagisa. Incubators will not stop trying to understand how Madoka´s powers work, and try to use her for them owns porpuses, and that´s why instead of allowing Madoka to carry her for etternty, Homura takes Madoka´s memories being a godess, and changing the universe itself as a consecuence, because in that form she will protect her from any harm, at any cost, by taking away her memories of her true self, and her power
In conclusion... Homura is a good person, but so jaded, and in this point of the story almost completely insane from a really severe case of PTSD, not sociopathy
this is a good read. And agreed, Homura did try to save everyone in the anime.. not just Madoka. And up to this day, it still surprises me how she did not go crazy repeating hostory so many times, trying to save Madoka.
@@boiledliddo Actually... at this point in rebellion... well she maybe insane with a severe case PTSD
@@ClaudiaGarcia-ou4gn that's possible as well. I recommend watching the side story anime Magia Record. It's good too.
@@boiledliddo Thank you, in fact I´m watching it too n.n
@@ClaudiaGarcia-ou4gn you're welcome. When you're done with Magia Record, and want a bit of fun read... I suggest googling for "Magia Report", mangakakalot has it. It's the official promotional comics for the game. Has Iroha, Madoka, and everyone else. Already translated to english. :)
when I first watched rebellion, I had a sudden realization. Madoka and Homura represent 2 sides of love. Homura represents selfish love. She wants Madoka for herself, and will sacrifice anything in order to make that happen. Madoka represents selfless love. She learns the whole story, and instead of saving herself, takes it upon herself to try to fix things, sacrificing herself in the process.
Well when you sacrafice yourself you dont have to think about the ones you left behind but those who are left behind think about you with every breath knowing they draw that breath because of you. So what is selfish? to find a way out of experiencing any emotions or having to face your emotions with every single breath? This is a contradiction both are selfish and selfless thats why they are a duality mirroring each other - one for all all for one. Madoka sees the pain of all magical girls and takes it in herself and the one who sees her pain is left behind as a witness to that sacrafice. Madoka doesnt have to live with that awareness but Humora does
Shit, Madoka Magica is kinda genius, isn’t it?
Yes I tell that to every person I meet!!! Madoka Magica deserves the fame that other mainstream Animes get!!!
friends call me out on it being moeshit...
It is at first glance but they never even went past the surface
It wrote a whole new sub genre in anime. Some could even argue it wrote a new genre almost entirely.
I think we can all agree that Puella Magi Madoka Magica was revolutionary to some extent for anime.
Yes, it really is.
@Lunar Night thats the point honestly
I think I’ve finally understood Rebellion after 3 years
Damn, Madoka Magica is still one of the deepest anime ever existed
What do you expect when Senjo, Karen, Ougi, and Hachikuji are running the show?
Explain it to me like i where a 5 years old (and more important: the Madoka series ended in rebellion or it will be a sequel?)
Though we had to wait until Rebellion for it to get the soul it desperately needed.
@@MrFox-lg1uo welp, congrats boy.... They will made the sequel
Do you understand Rebellion? Do you understand all of Madoka Magica is a retelling of Goethe's Faust and Homura is Faust, Madoka is Gretchen, and Kyube is Mephistophiles?
Being forced to kill Madoka, the only one to ever be kind to her, shattered her psyche. It's after that point that she changes her look and stops caring about anyone except Madoka. Everyone else will either help her in her goals or they're obstacles.
I think this aspect is often overlooked. From my point of view, it's very likely that Homura had already murdered magical girls in other timelines at the time of the start of the series. She didn't hesitate to try to kill Sayaka when she realised her fate was sealed, and would have surely done it if Kyoko hadn't intervened. That stage started when she was first forced to end a human life due to Madoka not wanting to become a witch. From that point on, it became increasingly easy for her to kill people for the sake of Madoka. She began seeing people as mere means or obstacles towards her final goal.
@@m.j.v.4463 indeed, being nice and trying to save others was just to obtain the real goal. Even Madoka herself. Madoka literally saves the universe and Homura was so set on Madoka she decided to keep going anyways.
Homura is just like an otaku...
She just wants her waifu....
i dont know about you guys, but this is the most accurate madoka magica analysis ive ever seen
This comment should be the title to the "meduca" series
And she torture the fucking kyuubey in the end, thats a good choice
She just a bitch in love
Can we blame her? Out of all characters I fell she's the most sensible. Why more of them can't be like her?!
11:31 To clear this up:
Homuras labyrinth is not enveloping the whole world and she is not "mysteriously" gaining those powers:
Homuras wish was to be strong enough to "protect" Madoka, no matter the cost. Within the flower field scene, she realizes that Madokas fate is cruel, that Madoka is not "rescued", but Madoka is a godlike entity now, one that rewrote the world and herself out of existence. So the only way Homura sees to save Madoka now is to once more rewrite the world, tearing Madokami back into existence.
Well noted
I think that Homura has the power of a god because she wished to protect a god. Alternatively, it could be that her wish caused her to have any amount of power to achieve her desire, no matter if it caused her to become a god. It doesn't matter how much power she had. She just changed her magical girl form to that of a god's and assumed that power level.
@@NapaCat With the theme of the anime being duality, I believe that while the time resets accumulated positive karma within Madoka allowing her to become a god, Homura's selfish wish and subsequent actions accumulated negative karma allowing her to become a demon. While Madokami shares her karma with other magical girls by rescuing them from becoming witches, Homura the demon will now spread hers by causing grief and suffering as a demon. We've been told repeatedly that the Universe is a zero-sum game. You can't create energy out of nothing, so for a huge amount of positive energy to exist, there must also exist an equal amount of negative energy. And that negative energy is within Homura.
@@B3RyL it could be that homura became a demon not because she grew powerful enough due to her wish to protect madoka, but due to her taking all of madoka's grief, since as she said that even grief is dear to her. Since madoka absorbs magical girl's grief before they die, in this case the reverse happened, since homura was not suffering and also due to her wish to protect madoka(taking madoka's grief so that she wouldn't perish at the end)
ok... but how the hell this happens? and why the wish didnt work before?
I feel you've missed something important in all of this.
Bear in mind that Homura's wish was made last-minute, in desperation, and worded in such a way that Kyube intentionally misinterpreted, because for Kyube, the ends are more important than the means, and it claims to have no concern for concepts of humanity or emotions. This, of course, trapped her in a cycle with no escape, and saw her retry and fail countless times. When you do something like that for long enough, you are inevitably going to lose sight of your original goal/s, and the toll it takes on your psyche will be tremendous. In the same way as 'Groundhog Day' sees the protagonist fall into despair eventually, so too does Homura. The only difference is that there was to be no happy ending for her.
I don't think it's fair or right to say that she wasn;t a good person. She was misled by forces she was ignorant to in the beginning, and it changed her.
Homura only cares about Madoka's wellbeing and happiness. She was prepared to suffer eternally for Madoka. She let herself become a demon for Madoka. What's controversial is that she went against Madoka's own wishes to protect Madoka's wellbeing.
If you go against someone's wishes to protect them, are you being selfish? Homura really does care about Madoka's happiness, not her own, in fact she doesn't care what happens to herself in the process, but she prioritizes Madoka's happiness over everything, even Madoka's agency.
For me Homura is like the mom who decided to lock up her kid in the house instead of letting her go save the world (in contrast to Madoka’s real mom). Homura is not a bad person, she just wants to live in a world that Madoka is happy. But she repeatedly stops Madoka from making her own choices (growing up into an adult). In this case literally forcing Madoka in a world Homura controls and can force Madoka into a child forever. “I know what’s best for you, you can’t take care of yourself so I’ll take care of you for you.” It’s kind but at the same time completely dismissive of Madoka as a person. I think it’s very telling that in Homura’s world Madoka is the nervous, insecure, confused transfer student with no friends (what Homura was). While Homura is the beautiful confident class rep type who everyone obeys. For Homura to be “good” she has to see Madoka as an equal and that Madoka’s choice about her life is just as if not more important then what Homura decides it should be. Childhood innocence is happiness but meeting each other as adults can also be happiness
You perscribe the medicince that you need for yourself to someone who doesn’t.
Thats true I actually ship Madoka and Homura So who ever thinks shes a bad person and that she wants Bad to Madoka i will put hate comments so bad HOMURA IS AN GREAT PERSON!!!!
no, she *HAD* to. kyubey admitted that he was going to trap madoka and practically enslave her. he was going to try to bring witches back for the whole entropy shit so they can use the energy again. madoka would’ve sacrificed herself for nothing. i don’t know why people forget that key detail
Didnt you watch the series
Madoka literally made Homura promised her to stop herself from making the poor choice of becoming a magical girl
I agree
Fandom is so busy with praising Homura that they don't even understand her or the movie.Homura knows what she did is wrong.Sayaka knows.Madoka knows.They will eventually have to be enemies because Homura's universe is unstable, Homura is, more unstable than ever now that she snapped and losing her sanity.What happened to the all those magical girls?How will this effect entropy now that everything is out of order?Will godoka become a witch herself if she can't stop magical girls from becoming witches?We don't know.I loved Rebellion and i love Madoka and Homura.But "Homura did nothing wrong" is definitely wrong.
U miss one point, Homura said she only take one piece of the law of circle so that means the entropy is not damaged and the other magical girl can continue be saved. ( my english is bad, sorry)
She's selfish but in a way she did sacrifice herself for Madoka to have her normal life back. As temporary as it may be, she became the villain so Madoka can be "happy". This also applied to the rest of the magical girls though it's just a side effect.
@kuro kitsune
No one is saying that she didn't do anything wrong.
What we are saying is that we understand that what she did was not entirely "wrong", but necessary. Think about it.
She was lured to be a player and also... a piece in an unwinnable game , where she was cheated, outnumbered, and forced to act in overwhelming conditions.
Imagine that you're playing a game...but the rules only applies to you, while everybody else laugh at you while they cheat and win and surpasses you in every way... what would you do? if loosing is equivalent of dying and loose everything you love and fight for... yes... you cheat... you cheat as hard and nasty as you can...
But in the case of Homura... she can't cheat to win...No, the only thing she can do, is even the odds.... balance the game. and stop being another a piece on the board. Forced to became her self, a monster not win against the monsters. No, she became the monster only to delay her enemies's next move and maybe, just maybe... have a CHANCE to win.
The game continues... .
@Gate To Another World How exactly do you know current Homura universe is better than Madoka's?I couldn't find all of scans for wraith arc,can you please explain how it's more stable?
@@game.surveyors2728 It's okay,it' not my main language either.Can law of cycles even work without Madoka?Last time we saw it it was torn apart.And you can see Sayaka's witch in Concept Trailer so i don't think magical girls can be saved without Godoka complete.
I don't get why people have a problem with Homura having the same power as Madoka (or why she would want to do this, but that's addressed by this video, so let me ramble a bit about the other issue).
In the series, Madoka gained this strength, because she was able to accumulate the Karmic weight of every cycle Homura went through because it was done on her behalf.
So why wouldn't the same hold true for the one who turned back the time?
Just like Madoka, we see Homura gain strength with each cycle. Where at first she can barely dent an empty barrel, she later becomes a star athlete and can shoot energy blasts from her bare hand. She can even keep several ICBMs and dozens of mortars and rocket launchers and what looks like at least one ton of explosives in her pocket dimension!
And to top if off, when it's expained how Madoka became so strong, it's visually represented with her being bound up in strongs. In the original series itself, we also see Homura shown in the very same representation, in the same posture bound with the same white strings.
Furthermore from what Kyubey said, we know that there are two moments which produce this immense outburst of energy: The moment a girl is turned into a magical girl and when a magical girl becomes a witch.
Now why didn't any magical girl before use this moment of immense power to basically become god? Three reasons:
1) Madoka and Homura are (to our knowledge) the only ones to ever accumulate the Karma of multiple timelines, which seems to be necessary to do such a feat.
2) Usually a magical girl turns into a witch when she loses all hope and thus all desire to do anything with this huge amount of power.
3) Usually the Incubators are there to ciphon off this power to save the universe from entropy.
Each one on their own, or a combination of them would account for why this has never happened before, but Homura was able to do it.
Now toss in the fact that when Homura fell into despair, she was in the process of being experimented on by the Incubators and you have a recipy for an unforseen outcome.
On top of that Homura, unlike any other magical girl before her, knew for a fact that rewriting the universe was possible, because she saw Madoka doing it.
So in short, it makes absolute sense for me that Homura would be able to do this and for the reasons you explained in your video it also makes sense why she would try it in the first place... to me at any rate.
If there's any complaint I have about Rebellion, it's with the visuals. At times there's so much going on on-screen at the same time, it's impossible to take it all in at once. Here a little scaling back might have been the better idea... but that's just a minor issue along the lines of nitpicking. The story, to me, is just spot on. If only they would finally make the final movie that the concept trailer hinted at. ^^
Well I mean that is true but it also has to do with the Incubators saying that raw human emotional energy was the most powerful in the universe for staving off entropy and when given the right nudge can be powerful enough to rewrite the universe. My guess was that their transformation into magical girls and having all their emotional energy stew in a soul gem was not a really good idea on their part because they effectively made the means to create something more powerful than themselves.
@@deathstar6998 And on top of that something beyond their understanding.
Adding on to this, due to the experiment's the Incubators performed on her, Homura had had the time to accept herself for what she was, making it so that when she woke up, she would turn into a witch with a functioning human mind, and with the explosion of power she was able to use this extreme corruption to consume the universe, plus all the Incubators that were in Homura's vicinity when this happened had just been killed by Madoka, explaining why they didn't siphon the energy.
An important point to add to your ideas is that the series very explicitly establishes that the nature of the wish can interfere with their karmic fate. Madoka took in all magical girls' despair and would have instead turned into the ultimate witch if her own wish didn't also allow her to become more powerful to take in her own despair.
Homura's wish was two-fold... she wanted to go back (thus enabling her time manipulation powers) but she also wanted to protect Madoka. Now, I've also always interpreted the turning-back-time portion as also increasing the weight of Homura's karmic destiny at the same time as Madoka's. Likewise, Rebellion does two things that are important for Homura's transformation: it establishes (to Homura) that the Madoka in her labyrinth is real, and it confirms that Madoka would consider her own hypothetical sacrifice to be horrible.
Thus, at the end of the series, when Homura is given the chance to make contact with the Law of Cycles, if she had enough karmic weight then her wish to protect Madoka would allow her to change the universe as well.
With how the second half of Homura's wish was "to be strong enough to protect" Madoka, she essentially set herself up to be by-definition more powerful than Madoka. After all, it can be difficult to protect a god without being one yourself. If the combined karmic destiny of 100 timelines was enough to elevate Madoka to godhood, the semantics of Homura's wish meant she not only had to be stronger than Madoka had become, but also capable of _depowering_ Madoka so that she would be able to be protected at all.
After looking closely at Homura's wish, it becomes doubtful she could have ever ended up as anything less than a god herself.
I have always loved the final shot of Rebellion. Homura dances, and a ragged-looking Incubator stares on in helpless terror.
"Her world of happiness is simply a temporary distraction from -"
From the reality that WERE GETTING A NEW MOVIE LETS GOOOOOO
If I recall correctly, the reason Homura laid markedly less importance on Sayaka, Kyoko and Mami is desperation. She has been trying over and over again, failing every time. Eventually she decided that she cannot afford to focus on the other members and chose to just protect Madoka. I believe this was actually explained in episode 10 (maybe 11). I may be wrong though.
Also, what makes you think that selflessness is an important theme in Madoka magica? The theme that I see is the discrepancy between the girl's desires and the reality of the world around them. This discrepancy leads to despair and corruption as the girls have to compromise on their wishes in accordance with the reality around them. Some of those desires have a selfish core to them, some don't. Am I missing something?
Other than that is think this is a good analysis. Kudos.
The magical girls are supposed to save the world, using the energy they collect the Incubators are trying to stop the world from collapsing if I remember correctly. They're supposed to act for the greater good. Except they don't. Each one of them become a magical girl for selfish reason and end up paying a high price for it.
All except madoka, she is the only one that decide to make a wish to save all the magical girls at the cost of her own life and she is the only one achieving the ending she wanted.
Sayaka realize too late that nobody will congratulate her efforts.
Kyôko family end up dying.
Mami get killed.
And Homura wasn't able to really get madoka back.
But madoka saved the magical girls from their despair as she wished.
Every different wishes push Madoka to choose a selfless wish. She saw Mami make the wish to save herself and die alone, stopping her from becoming a magical girl without a real reason. She saw Sayaka make the wish that her childhood friend would heal in hope of getting his affection and getting consumed by that wish when she realized the implications of becoming a magical girl and sacrifices needed for it, stopping her from making a wish for her own benefits (it work with Kyoko too but Madoka don't know her story). And finally Homura, who made the wish to save her and got trapped in an endless nightmare because of that, make madoka brave, as someone sacrificed her life just to save her.
As madoka come to realize that nobody can run away from their despair she decide to confront her own and to save the others from it. Accomplishing what every magical girl wanted but failed to achieve. Finding the way to end despair : selflessness.
Which is also the reason why she didn't brought back Sayaka, Sayaka sacrificed herself for the good of her friend after she came to terms with herself.
She only wanted to save Madoka because Madoka was the very first friend she made in Homaru’s own timeline. Sayakia and Kyoko didn’t become magical girls and weren’t friends with Madoka in that timeline. Mami was just a sweet girl she knew. But Madoka’s death impacted homaru the most. Because Madoka was glad to be her friend, and glad to rescue her from that witch when they first met. Homura discluded the other girls and desperately wanted to save Madoka . Although she didn’t know what Madoka really want. Homaru is desperately trying to save Madoka, when Madoka sacrifices herself to save everyone else. Kind of sad, isn’t it? Homaru did notice the other girls, although her more primary goal was to save Madoka than everyone else
That's still harsh on her she spends the first episodes trying to save Mami but Mami takes her out. Then she spends almost the entire rest of the show trying to save Sayaka but Sayaka rejects her help every time. Kyoko literally suicides. By the end of the film she's saved every magical girl in her own way. She only betrayed Madoka because the alternative was to wait patiently for the next attempt the Kyubeys made to kill Madoka. She achieves this by inflicting eternal suffering on herself.
@@RevolutionaryLoser Yeah but Homura do all that because Madoka cares about Mami and Sayaka, she isn't moved by their death and she never tried to find a way to befriend them so they think she is on their side she treat everybody as she treat Madoka, but she is unfriendly with Madoka so she don't become a magical girl.
She never saved the other magical girl, it's a byproduct of her trying to save Madoka and failing.
Imagine all the frustration and despair it would have produced to have save everybody except the one you want to save if she remembered everything well.
@@keerya4179 She tried being friendly but it didn't work and I dont see why it would. You are forgetting she's been doing this for years and seen hundreds of people die in front of her. She also knows all witches are magical girls so she is perfectly aware that she's killing other girls like her every day. Of course she isnt going to break down just by seeing a friend die. The fact that she still suffers so much each time she sees Madoka die is a testament to her humanity.
I think you make a lot of good points. Homura's feelings for and actions towards Madoka have never been healthy. She does't love "Madoka, the person," she *wants* "Madoka, the ideal." She really parallels Sayaka that way when you think about it. Both of them went to great lengths for a person they loved, believing they'er acting out of selflessness, when in reality it's selfishness that drives them. What Homura did at the end of the movie was Kyoko's advice to Sayaka (paraphrased "You should've used your wish to make him completely dependent on you.") taken to the extreme.
Speaking of Kyouko's advice, I may not be remembering very well, but didn't she suggest that she'd go ahead and take Kyousuke for herself if Sayaka wasn't willing to break his arms and legs? Pretty crazy and disturbing to think that Kyouko could've went as far as becoming a rapist if she felt like it.
YamatoFukkatsu Kyoko wasn’t being serious about it and their relationship was still antagonistic at that point.
As for Homura, she did love Madoka as she was, but she loved Madoka in the original timeline. Madoka saved her in more ways than one and she had the desire to be the one who saves her. However when you are repeatedly exposed to trauma over and over again like Homura, there is no way anyone survive that mentally well. Homura is a very broken person whose determination and love got twisted as time goes on. She doesn’t fully realize that she eventually disregards Madoka’s agency and begins to treat her like a precious object than a human.
And people think that she would be totally okay with Madoka giving up her existence after going such extreme hell? Like really?
Lol.. Stupid
@@user-zu1ix3yq2w I don't see what's stupid about this thread considering everyone had a good point
And Homura’s relationship with Madoka in this timeline is incredibly unhealthy, and I get the feeling if homura had been a man people would be calling her an abuser with how she behaves towards her throughout the series.
She constantly intimidates her, she belittles her, and the movie is the icing on the cake.
Homura still cares for Kyoko besides Madoka, we can still see her sadness when Kyoko sacrificed herself, and even in Rebellion Homura asks for help to Kyoko the same way she probably did in many timelines.
Ikr!
They are my OTP, wish they'd have more development
aspinia There were so many subtle moments revealing Homura’s care and empathy for the others that can go unnoticed if you don’t pay attention to the nuance enough. Her tough exterior is merely a result of the desensitized nature of her mental state from the trauma of going through so many timelines and failure to save everyone, that it can be hard to notice, and easy to assume she has sociopathic tendencies (which I find to be a superficial perspective). Even in almost killing Sayaka at one point was, to her, a way of mercy-killing, before Sayaka inevitably turns into a witch. A sort of lesser of two evils.
I think it was hard for Homura to stay compassionate towards the other characters when living virtually the same horrible life over and over and over made her so broken and apathetic that her pinpoint obsession with Madoka was the only thing powerful enough to make her keep trying. I think she deserves a lot more credit
Homura is one of my favorite characters ever. She’s so interesting
I made a huge AMVC of this anime... like to see it ^ ͜ ^ its a huge project I did a while back that took half a year to edit
Agreed. There's times where you like her and times where you don't like her
Always surprised me that other fans seemingly did not like Rebellion. I thought it was a great story.
I don't know if I agree with everything you say about Homura's character (i.e. not caring about the other characters solely because she's obsessed with Madoka - I think she has become obsessed with saving Madoka but I think she's re-lived the events so many times that she's become convinced the others' deaths are simply inevitable.)
But the story of Homura being consumed by her obsession - to me that was a very satisfying conclusion to her story.
Personally,..
okaaaayyyy.... Yeah the "obsession arc" of homura concluded in this movie. But not the consequences: what Will happen When Madoka regains her memories
I think fans don't like it (I was really put off by it at least), because it doesn't feel like an end. It took the reasonably satisfying conclusion from the show and said "no, actually, all these bad things will happen" and then never resolved them. It's like a movie that ends halfway (like, imagine if Avengers: Infinity War was the last marvel movie, this is like that).
I will say, seeing this analysis does make me appreciate the movie a little more, but it still feels like an overall step down for the story right now. If one day they manage to make their conclusion I might change my mind, but for right now the whole thing feels like a cash grab.
@@SomeGuy-ty7kr *6 months later* I agree, but I'd actually argue the original ending is not a satisfying conclusion either. Sure, it satisfies everything plot-wise, but character-wise? Absolutely not. Madoka is canonically not happy with her decision to become a god (as shown in Rebellion and the lyrics to her character song). Homura would never be okay with Madoka becoming a god- Homura does not only want Madoka to 'be happy,' her wish is inherently selfish. She wants to be with Madoka. Both characters are left wanting more.
Rebellion may not satisfy everything plot-wise, but in terms of character development, it is a perfect conclusion, and it delivers on all of the themes in the series. Madoka Magica is not a plot-driven story, but character-driven. I do agree that if they ever make a movie that satisfies both plot and character-writing to their conclusion, that would be a more perfect ending, but I fundamentally disagree that Rebellion is a cash-grab. I see it as the only thing that makes sense for these characters, especially Homura.
@@diadrite that is true, but sometimes you can't always get what you want, you know? I don't think "character didn't get the end they hoped for" is necessarily a bad way to end a story, especially since, in homura's case, what she wanted wasn't actually good for her anyway.
Learning to let go would have been a far more valuable lesson for her, and would have represented a character progression, rather than a regression. We already know she's obsessed with Madoka, and we've already seen the horrors that resulted (arguably, the wichtnaugh (or whatever it was) was actually homura's witch).
Having a whole movie that undoes madoka's sacrifice and further degenerates homura's character is not exactly what I would call the best use of film making resources.
@@isauldron4337 I don't think Madoka will choose to return to her unhappy existence when the law of cycles can exist without her.
I don't really agree with the Homura as the deuteragonist, for me she's the protagonist as she's the one whose actions have an impact on the world. Madoka is more a goal character, she isn't "Harry Potter the school of wizards" but "the lord of the ring" type of title character.
For me Homura doesn't have the same progression as other girls not because of selfishness but because she's the only magical girl who knows what she really wants. She's honest with her feelings and have to face them unlike the other girls who made half assed wishes in which they tried to take the good role and were punished for their hypocrisy. Homura's problem is more of a hubris one.
11:20 I was thinking about this. I realized it was concerning how she became powerful without explanation.
But then an idea occurred to me.
Madoka's wish is "I want to erase all witches before they are even born." Keypoints "erase all WITCHES" and "before they are even born".
Magical girls turn into witches when they succumb to despair. Homura took it one step further by EMBRACING her despair and accepting being evil, going where no magical girl had gone before. Sayaka remarked that her soul gem became something WORSE than a curse. So, perhaps she no longer qualified as a mere 'witch'.
On top of that, Homura's witch had ALREADY been born. It was born inside of the Incubator's barrier, meaning Madoka failed to fulfill her own wish.
All this adds up to Madoka's powers being nullified.
And on top of that, Homura's wish was "Instead of being protected by her, I want to protect her". The moment Madoka made her wish, she was doomed, because she became a 'protector'.
wishes vs wishes. who would won? the wish to eat a cake, or the wish to protect the cake?
it is interesting to think about how homura's wish goes against madoka's wish, like the whole plot of rebellion of homura/madoka becoming enemies (as mentioned by homura herself on her last talk with madoka ((that they'd become enemies one day)) would be eventually happening
or even on top of that, as homura's wish (as she recreates timelines) makes madoka powerfull enough to become a god who protects magic girls happiness, madoka's makes homura powerfull enough to become a devil who protects madokas happiness, as they ascend to opposite powerful existances through love, ideals and fate itself
Saiyaka: Pride
Kyoko: Sloth
Maimi: Envy
Madoka: Gluttony
Homura: Lust
Kyubey: Greed
The Fans: WRATH
idk if she's sociopathic, but she definitely developed a hero complex around madoka, since madoka was her hero in the first timeline. but i can see something in her initial shyness that explains her clinging to one person instead of developing a meaningful relationship with the others. while it's initially a general 'it sucks that mami died' at first, it hardens quickly. not saying that homura shouldn't care about the others, but along the way, after she realizes that they become witches when they fall into despair, it would cause her a lot more despair to continually try to save the other girls as well. it's understandable how this happens, but yeah the homura we meet is not a well adjusted girl with certain character flaws, like mami or sayaka. her initial flaw has morphed into something larger over time, which ties back into the understanding that reliving the past has created an overwhelming about of emotional energy in the timeline we witness
Throughout the series, a character's motivation constantly overlaps with their circumstance which causes people to take actions at face value. This can be applied to every character in the series who put on a facade in order to meet an end. Whether it was Homura acting cold, Mami and Sayaka acting brave, Kyoko acting selfish, or Madoka acting content, their characters had to deviate in some way to achieve a goal that they perceive as bigger than them.
Sure, one could say "Homura is just being possessive", or one can acknowledge that the alternative of losing Madoka was far worse than losing one's self. Homura is more self-aware than people give her credit for. Ultimately, she acknowledges that what she had to do in order to save Madoka was wrong. Whether it was lamenting about how acting coldly personaly hurt her (right before the fight with Mami) , or "wishing for a world in which you can be happy" (literally the last line of the movie). She isn't delusional. Somewhat similar to Kiritsugu, Homura believed that the end always justified the means no matter what she became. In this case, that goal is Madoka's happiness.
Love the comparison to Kiritsugu. My brain came up with the (tongue in cheek) sentence "Kiritsugu and Homura are the same person" and now I feel validated.
WARNING: Extremely long rant/analysis of Homura and her interactions with the other characters (besides madoka)
The whole "Homura did nothing wrong!" thing always kinda bothered me, because it feels like people think a character has to be entirely good/flawless. and that it's bad to like a character who isn't. Homura definitely made a quedtionable decision in the ending, and while she's doing it to give Madoka a world where she can be happy with her friends, it's not really what Madoka wants.
Also, it's true that Homura can come off as very cold towards the other magical girls, but I wouldn't say she doesn't care for them. She definitely cared back when she was first getting into the msgical girl stuff, and while she still cares, she realized that it's a lot easier for her to become cold ans distant than to get close, knowing that the other magical girls are practically destined to die. The scenes before and after the fight with Mami really struck me, because Homura reveals that Mami always troubled her because she was fragile (something along these lines, I'm doing this from memory). I think this shows that Homura really does care for Mami, and it hurt her to see Mami die, or lose it. This also is probably a big factor as to why she stopped trying to team up with Mami, because even if she survived, she had a really hard time learning the truth.
Interestingly enough, we actually got to see a lot of Sayaka sympathizing with Homura in this movie (though it gets reversed by the end). I imagine since she died, she also knew what Homura went through. While I think Homura in general disliked Sayaka more than Mami, since she never really liked Homura to begin with, I also think Homura had some cared for her, at least a bit. That being said, most of Homura's interactions with Sayaka shouldn't be defended (the grief seed scene from the show comes to mind). Homura did seem to show some care fore Sayaka before she became a magical girl, but it's clear that she's given up on any chance of her surviving as one. Honestly, the only thing that upsets me about the end of rebellion is that it completely undoes any potential progress eith these two, as Sayaka looses all her sympathy.
Kyoko (Kyouko? I've seen both and idk which is mpre popular) is an interesting case, because she's the only magical girl Homura gets close(ish) to in the main timeline of the show. This is due to the fact that Homura sees her as truely fit to be a magical girl, and is probably the only one who Homura sees having the chance to survive. I think Homura really did feel genuinely sad after Kyoko's death in the show, and probably wanted to help her, but felt it was more important to save Madoka (Kyoko's line about protecting the things you care about gets me ;-;).
I think Homura is a pretty good example of a grey character done well. She has good intentions, but her experience shows her that she can't save everyone (or at least she thinks this), and forces her to settle for what's most important to her. It's wrong to say that Homura is a horrible person, but it's also not right to say she's perfect, which is fine.
As a side note: it's important to remember that these girls are all in middle school. I've seen a lot of people complain that Madoka cries too much, or Sayaka was stupid (she says it herself, but I mean more of a criticism of her logic/mindset), or that Homura mad bad decisions. These girls are, like, 14-ish? It's absurd to expect them to make amazing life decisions that even adults would struggle with, especially when going through that kind of trauma.
anyways rant over, I have too many feelings about this show and just felt I needed to put them somewhere.
"Homura did nothing wrong" is just a modified version of "Griffith did nothing wrong" meme.
Both Homura and Griffith have fanatic worshippers and passionate haters in their respective fandom (Griffith from Berserk manga) The worshippers are legitimately using that phrase to defend their impure and selfish actions, while their haters are using that phrase *sarcastically*
Sometimes u have to make sacrifices by doing something wrong
@@yvonne3745
Sacrificing others to satisfy your selfish lust is wrong objectively.
Coobie is suffering
@@roberthasudungan1546 at least homura isnt a rapist tho
While I do understand the point that Homura's wish can definitely be interpreted as possessive/selfish, the message I got from it was that she was almost trying to "return the favor" to Madoka- Madoka saved and protected her, not to mention gave her something to live for, and I think Homura wanted to be able to protect her as thanks. But that's just my interpretation. Homura as a character can be interpreted in several different ways, which is honestly part of why I love her character so much.
Well, I’m gonna say this... MANY people hate Homura after the rebellion movie. I’ll tell you. They didn’t understand what Homura was REALLY doing, Homura had to do one last attempt, she wanted to make Madoka happy, even though she has to play as the enemy to save the one she wants to protect. But, she feels like she has to sacrifice herself to grant that wish. Homura just wanted to be next to her, as a friend, not a mortal or a god. But, as a friend who could be together forever.
Madoka: cute bubbly noises
Homura: anger and suffering noises
I enjoyed this video and I agree with almost every point you've made, but I'd advise against using terms like "sociopath" too freely. Perfectly sound people can commit atrocious acts, too. I dont think Homura had sociopathic tendencies in the beginning -- on the other end, a case could be made about her mental unstableness after going through the endeavor of trying to save Madoka, again and again.
Not a critique, just a thought!
Another point is that being a sociopath doesn't make one a bad person. They just have a higher chance of becoming a bad person.
"Perfectly sound people can commit atrocious acts, too. "
_agrees in banality of evil_
I mean like you said she did have to kill her friend, watch all her other friends die, and had to repeat these same few days over and over again knowing in the end she gets the same results. It's still up to debate on what Homura did was a good thing or bad thing but is it that far off to think that she could be a sociopath after all of this pain she's endured? Most people would, so why would she be out of the question?
I don’t think Homu is “Perfectly sound” rn...
Except she shows a ton of signs of sociopathy. Whether or not it's a part of her or merely learned behavior to deal with the world she's dealt with, it's not an unfair comparison. She lies and deceives, seems to lack guilt, is incredibly impulsive, has very little empathy, seems uninterested in her own safety, etc.
People need to remember that sociopathy is a disorder, and as such not an inherited illness necessarily.
Something I learned recently is that "Akemi" roughly translates as dawn, making her full name "Flame of Dawn". There happens to be someone else whose name refers to a morning light, such as a star. A Morning Star perhaps. Translate into Latin and the series couldn't end any other way and the nickname "Homucifer" becomes surprisingly hilarious.
For those not in the know, Lucifer's name directly translates as either Morning Star or Light Bringer.
Also it comes from mistranslating Venus as a name. In the bible morning star was to refer to a king who had fallen.
@@jettlucashayes8508 What is Venus _also_ associated with? _Love!_ (Ai yo) 🙃
I think the way that she tries to kill herself how the witch she creates is a suicidal one going to be executed is probably the best example of who she is at heart. She hates herself and the world and sees madoka as the only one worth saving. I think her actions at the end are a result of being a witch. Not only a witch but one who incubated for so long while people kept her from fully dying and while the incubators imprisoned her. If whst creates magical girls is despair and other negative emotions wouldnt onces soul gem being that corrupted essentially make herexperience those things mor e strongly
It's interesting, all the girls, but especially Madoka and Homura, think poorly of themselves. Madoka, like Mami the first time we meet her, reveals that she is quite self-conscious, and this still seems to be recurrent in each timeline. For her, the only way to find validation is in what she sees as a higher cause, and while protecting others is a noble goal, ultimately, I think Madoka's insistence on becoming a martyr is ultimately a showcase of how little she cares about herself, sees herself as small and encapable in the world around her.
Homura, is much the same, with her first timeline revealing that she is physically weak, and thinks very poorly of herself. While she tries to hide it, her actions and thoughts on herself show that while she may have gained power to do what she couldn't before, she now sees herself as less of a person. A key difference between the two is that while Madoka sees her wish as an opportunity to change herself, Homura is always stuck in the same place, and because she can never remove herself from being a magical girl and is reliant on Madoka's wellbeing, she can't change, because there's always the likelihood that everything will return to zero.
I find the two interesting in that their character weaknesses and self-reflections seem to mirror each other, where they see the other as a role model and themselves as being unworthy of each other. Contrasted with Kyoko and Sayaka, who are two people who originally held similar views, but while Kyoko became jaded by losing everything around her, Sayaka became aggressive and defensive due to Kyoko's warnings. To take pride in her own choice to become a magical girl, she built her entire identity around defending justice like Kyoko once did, and by forcing herself to be self-reliant, ultimately destroyed herself. Compare to Kyoko, who numbed her ideals and the world around her to survive, only to ultimately die for Sayaka, who rekindled that same passion and care she had abandoned, and so that neither would be left alone.
I find it interesting to compare Kyoko and Sayaka to Homura and Madoka, because the former seem to be capable of resolving each others problems and growing, while the latter are stuck because they rely on the validation and existence of something greater than them, and have similar yet ultimately opposing goals that unravel each other...
It will be interesting to see where the story goes further, now that Homura seems to see herself as a devil and has powers she can abuse, I wonder how her choices will impact the cores of the other characters. Either way, I expect time looping shenanigans, and possibly some witchery
@@Iridescent_Astraea Gosh yeah. You've summed this up so perfectly. It's also worth noting that Homuta is only as bad as she is because her soul gem got so poisoned. Her self hate and want to save people has been severely twisted while madoka hasn't been twisted in that way. I want more Madoka. It's an amazing franchise that very few knock offs have come close to
There is a drama CD that perhaps addresses some of the things you brought up here. It's the first one - Memories of You.
Basically it focuses on the timeline and gives more insight into why Homura likes Madoka specifically.
Additionally, I think Homura views Madoka specifically as like the coolest person ever. First impressions are important and Homura's first impression of Madoka was as the cool, confident magical girl. Homura's infatuation with Madoka isn't because she saved her from a witch. It's because Madoka saw Homura was lonely and depressed and she saved her from that. Being with Madoka was the first, and only time, in her life where she felt like she was wanted.
I think her wish was because she wanted to be cool like Madoka (who is the coolest person to her) and also wanted to save her from dying. After all, if she's not strong enough to protect her the same thing will just happen again... which it does... many times.
I think interpreting it as possessiveness is incorrect.
Also, in the end, when she calls herself evil, I think it's less because she thinks what she did is selfish but more because she hurt Madoka to do it.
somethin like that anyways idk. Anyways Memories of You is pretty good. Yall should give it a read/listen. Spoiler, but they bond over a shared love of cats. Which is just so perfect for a series about witches.
As they say... “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”
4:54 Wait, was Homura not crying in that scene over Mami's death? Because I'm pretty sure she was crying in that scene over mami's death.
Wouldn't her wanting Madoka to not share that same fate make her the opposite of a sociopath?
In Rebellion, her dream ideal world had everyone happily living together. If that wasn't what she really wanted then why would she subconsciously invite then? Before the Mami fight, she even laments on how acting coldly towards others pained her. Not exactly someone I would call a sociopath.
I feel the same way. I have a feeling that you can view Homura from two different ankles, one where she is a bad and selfish person and one in wich she gives up her own life in favour of those she holds dear. In fact, this is really close to Madokas wish. Homura kills Madoka in the second line in favour to her. It feels for her as she would have killed herself. SHe didn't allow Madoka to become a witch for THE SAKE OF MADOKA HERSELF. We experience what Homura as a witch/the evil suffers through and from that point I imagine Homura killing Madoka before she becomes a witch is an act of true love. Actually, I have a feeling that Homura is the person to make sure that Madoka's ultimate wish can be granted in the end. I don't refer to her as a "sociopath" that grows onto Madoka. I feel for her like as for a victim. A victim of her shyness, of the incubator, a victim to fate. And she doesn't become evil because she IS evil - she becomes evil because the incubators put her into a closed space, making it impossible for Madoka to reach out to her before she becomes a witch. The explanation in the video lacks this fact completely.
one more thing, excuse me for using your comment, but it points exactly in the direction i was going. I feel like Rebellion deals with the aftermath of the series as a whole. If you look at it, the whole film is built up like the stages you go through when you suffer from the death of a loved one. First, you refuse to believe it, then you fall into anger, you fall into despair, you do this, that and finally you accept. For none of this Homura had time in the series. She always went back to the start. Ultimately, she can not accept because she is the one responsible for Madokas death in all timelines, at least she thinks so. People fall sick in the real world as well for witnessing and doing terrible things as such. You could convince me that Homura is not a strong person for not being able to let go, but in the end, I feel like even after she falls evil, she has the goal to fulfill Madokas wish, which is why she points out that they will become enemies one day. She struggles between letting Madoka be the circle and handing her to the incubators. In my opinion, there is a strong need for another film to have a full perspective on Homuras personality.
anomalou dude Homaru isn’t evil, ugh of course you think she’s evil because she was that black hair and cold personality. Stereotypes ಠ_ಠHer actions led her to what she has become. Homaru isn’t evil. She just wanted to save her friend out of the friend group. Madoka impacted her life the most so Homaru didn’t focus on madokas desires and desperately tried to stop her fate on becoming into a magical girl
Well I have to say yes and no, even if she was crying the first time that mami died, doesn't mean she isn't a sociopath. A sociopath is diffent from a psyhcopath because a sociopath is created not born. In the show we see how numb homura is becoming to the other death. And since she wasn't extremely close to mami, you could debate that over time she become numb to seeing everyone but madoka unhappy/dead. Also who to say that the reason that Homura wants that world is because 1. that's a desire she had before she became numb or 2. (I think is the more likely answer) is a mixture of her desire and madoka dream for a calm, happy reality to would keep them both there for as long a possible. However, homura broke free from that reality leading to rebellion.
Homura isn't evil? She literally becomes the epitome is a selfish and obsessed girl who can't let her feelings go... She is the antagonist of madoka rebellion.
Homura's wish when becoming a magical girl was to protect Madoka. Possibly that might be the reason why her "weapon" is a shield and why is her power the strongest ability one could come up with being able to stop and even reverse time.
The way I interpret it Homura's struggle simply comes from her ultimately always being unable to bring herself to actually protect Madoka, because the one she needs to protect her from is Madoka herself. The end of the show is literally Homura losing against Madoka and refusing to face her even more by sealing her ability away by mimicking Madoka's weapon.
Rebellion was supposed to end with Madoka finally taking Homura away but the writer got pressured into continuing the story so we got the part with Homura capturing Goddess Madoka, but her pattern of trying to protect her but being unable to face her when she needs to protect her from herself still stands with now creating an ideal world of happiness, but when Madoka almost remembers her true self we see how weakly does Homura actually opposes Madoka, and can't face her to the point that Madoka could just merge with her split off god self with no effort and casually walk out if she decided to.
Homura is really a "human" person. "Ideal" personalities that are 100% good or bad do not exist, unless they are literally insane, but then it is a dysfunctional mind to begin with. The core of her character really is love. She wants to protect her out of love, then save her from her fate out of love, and ultimately she can't bring herself to fight Madoka when it comes down to it because of her love.
The way she either retained her mind after becoming a witch or not becoming one fully is also seems to be the result of her love. Love is generally considered a positive emotion, but honestly it's both a positive and a negative emotion. Homura's actions to protect Madoka are selfless and her only selfishness is her craving for Madoka because of love. Due to love being such an anomaly of an emotion a witch transformation centered around it is ought to be an anomaly too.
I like your interpretation of Homura's struggles, but Urobuchi being pressured into continuing the story is a common misconception, as least going by the translation summaries of his interview on the puella magi wiki.
_To be fair, Shinbo thought of it first. From the start, Urobuchi planned to have Madoka take Homura with her, thus creating a "happy ending" of sorts, but decided it wouldn't be a good enough ending. Then, Shinbo suggested the concept "Madoka and Homura into enemies”, Urobuchi accepted the idea and admitted that this was a breakthrough for him. Urobuchi believes that Rebellion got a happy ending for at least its main character, Homura._
wiki.puella-magi.net/Gen_Urobuchi#Translated_Interviews
fake news, the writers weren't pressured to make that kind of ending. the interviews of gen urobochi(the director) said he had ended it with a "happy ending" as you suggested but he felt it was lacking. it was only after shinbo suggested that idea that gen rolled with it.
@@wakamoon1910
I was misinformed then.
@@wakamoon1910 Wow, so even Urobuchi himself thought that the "happy ending" wasn't satisfactory? See, I initially went into Rebellion expecting the possibility that it'd end simply with Homura getting saved by Madoka and being with her in the Law of Cycles. However, regardless of whatever happens in the two hours leading up to it, I did worry that such a conclusion would come off as pure fanservice and predictable as fuck (and in the couple of years between the series and the movie, we already had plenty of supplemental material, games and radio dramas and spin-off manga, trying to paint MadoMagi as some sort of story about coming together and forming bonds, exactly the sort of magical girl cliche that this series stood against... hell, the first half hour of this movie seems exactly like something out of Sunny Day Life). Cue the actual ending to Rebellion.... I'm a little shaken up and confused over what the hell just transpired, but I'm also pleasantly surprised. This movie threw me for exactly the kind of dark and unexpected (yet totally logical when you stop to think about it) loop that the series itself would throw at us with nearly every episode.
For there to be love there must be mutual respect and affection for one another. Without respect it's infatuation. With desire infatuation becomes obsession. At least that's how I interpret it.
Madoka's wish was equally selfish. She decided to rewrite the universe no less than Homura (on her own without anybody's input).
But somehow people have issues when Homura did it s when Madoka did it.
And objectively Homura's world is a lot better than Madoka's. Because nobody had to sacrifice their existence and the incubators are the ones bearing the curses.
Mami is no longer lonely, Sayaka and Kyoko have each other and Madoka has her family.
New movie has finally been announced! So I came back here. Love this vid.
YES SAME
The consistency between character arcs and how Homura's differed with the events of the movie is not something I recognised before, but I'd also say that there's a degree of contrast too in how Homura perceived reality in Rebellion compared to in the series, and I think the notion of a fragile happiness is an astute observation, the world being an illusion a particularly interesting resolution for Homura, given she's always been the purveyor of uncomfortable truths for other magical girls. Even in Rebellion, she finds it natural to explore the enigma in her own labyrinth alone, only trying to wake them up to the deceptions when her back's against the wall. Her attempt to turn this skepticism on herself is interesting too, especially in the scene where she's prostrating herself before the mural of Madoka while the Clara dolls chuck fruit at her and proclaim, "Gott ist tot!" (Nietzsche's famous phrase).
Of course, one area of dispute which may cement a little ambiguity on Homura's selfishness might also be how she learned that the incubators' ultimate goal was to take control of Madoka, suddenly making Madoka seem vulnerable again to her, compared to the god she was supposed to have become. She didn't realise Madoka was ultimately in control of the situation, and so her actions at the end could easily be interpreted as an act of over-protectiveness born out of worry. That could easily count as selfishness too, though, I suppose. And, given I think your analysis of all the main characters' arcs save Madoka's regarding selfishness is astute, I'd like to raise the point that the series doesn't necessarily condemn people with selfish impulses outright (for anyone accept Madoka, not having them is basically impossible), merely notes of their potential for exploitation, particularly when fueled by emotion, something Kyubey, master of exploitation, claims to lack. Sayaka's breakdown for thinking momentarily selfishly in episode 7 always aroused pity in me more than anything, as she seems to be pertaining to a unattainable ideal.
I'm so glad I clicked this. Not just because I absolutely adore PMMM but that live action redo of that scene was...the cherry on top. Great content dude!
This video has been haunting me from my Suggested Videos for like a couple of weeks.
But it was good. I've always held that Homura's Rebellion was a completely natural progression from her ending in the show, that it made perfect sense for her even while being totally unpredictable for me. Have definitely debated people on this issue. Because the show's resolution is a good ending for everyone except Homura, who wanted exactly one thing for years and years, suffered far more than any other girl, and still failed to get it. Instead, she is left abandoned in a world that is devoid of the one person she cares about. I think there's a line in the show about Homura having pinned all of her hopes on the distant possibility of saving Madoka and giving her that ideal normal life, that it is the one thing that has fueled her journey so far, and at this point if Homura ever gave up on saving Madoka, she would be immediately consumed by despair. That kind of shit going on for years, it had to have seriously warped Homura's mind even beyond all of her other traumas, and that sort of thing doesn't just rubberband back afterwards. And so she continues to try to save her.
When I first watched Rebellion, I was speechless even for Homura's arc. Homura is still my favorite character and I really see she's one of the most complex characters in this series ever. Way complex than any other anime characters I've ever known.
I think what this anime does better than most, is show how people are not good or bad. They are just products of their environments. Madoka was given the chance to be the hero and ultimately left Homura behind in the end leaving Homura to cling to a wish that would ultimately never be able to come true. No one even remembered the sacrifices she made, even Madoka barely recognized this fact. Madoka became a god and Homura was left on earth to repeat the same task over and over for eternity until she was scrubbed from the earth like everyone else. If the laws of this world remain true, she was always destined to become the ultimate antagonist to Madoka's perfect world and the only thing Homura could do is justify her pain and suffering with the love she felt for Madoka. Homura isn't good or bad, she's just human. Whether or nor those emotions are embodied in a soul gem or in her heart like a normal person, they are ultimately still human.
I still want to see a confrontation between God Madoka and Devil Homura. :)
The show is not about selflessness. It’s more complicated than that. That’s simplifying the show..
Homura is a grey character. She never claimed to care about the world. She only cares about the people close to her.
Everyone is a grey person. No one is just selfless or selfish. Everyone is both.
It’s the minority extremes that be completely selfless (which is self destructive in reality) or selfish.
She allows Sayaka to live freely and tells her to live a normal life. She may not care about Sayaka but she did something selfless for her.
She also did a selfless act for selfish reasons. Kyubey will do anything to get God Madoka. She threw all the despair in the world into Kyubey and made it so he can’t interfere with Madoka anymore. She did this cuz she cares about Madoka and this is what Madoka cares about.
Btw Mami is in the wrong in that fight against Homura. They are both at fault. Both defending themselves. Mami started it by not talking with Homura about why she is hurting Bebe and Mami finished the fight as well. Homura never intended to actually kill her as we see her just shoot Mami in the leg.
We need to see more to the series to know if her actions has consequences she did not think about. We don’t know anything so for now I will see what she did as a good thing. We saw that Madoka can still tap into her power. She can still be the law of cycles. She just is stuck living as a human.
If you remember the flashback episode she did care about everyone besides Madoka. She cried over them. She felt pain. Going through time over and over hardened her heart. And the only light in her life is what she cares about now. I do think Homura should of kept her mouth shut about Madoka.
There’s symbolism in the movie. That window Madoka went through to get to Homura. It’s now tide with a ribbon so Madoka can’t get in anymore.
She is not a sociopath. I doubt a sociopath would do any of these things.
She may have some other mental illness though.
She's a stalker
He mentioned it was the duality of selfishness and selflessness. The wishes ultimately failed because many were not selfish enough or were done selflessly. They mention this causes pain later when one wishes for another when one consequence is anticipated over the one that occurs. It was more about owning up to your actual self outside of what how you WANT to be conceived as. The reality VS illusion represented between humans and witches, with magical girls being the grey area. They all find their conclusion when they decide "hey im owning up to that mistake i made/i accept this". -
"Mental illness?" how about extreme trauma. Everything is normal in a crazy enough situation.
She watched them die multiple times and disassociates from them. She does this multiple. Times. She watches the same people die. Over and over. Re living these things and remembering all of it. People she cares about.
In what universe will that not fuck you up?
Her consequences are quite big if you understand. By turning back time to save madoka she created a situation madoka could erase her earthly existence to save the rest of them. The one person she wanted to save.
If anything, the entire arch is the consequences of her actions. It wouldn't exist as it is without them.
"Homura is a grey character. She never claimed to care about the world. She only cares about the people close to her."
Well, doesn't that line sound familiar?
"Because what you're describing is trying to save everyone in the world, Shirou. Choosing to save someone means choosing not to save someone else. You see, no matter what your intention is, you can only save those who belong to your side. I know it should be obvious, but that is the definition of a Hero of Justice''
God thank you for saying this movie was logical and necessary. For years I couldn’t stand how people kept saying “it’s just trippy” “weird for the sake of weird” ect ect.
I absolutely loved it!
I’m leaving another comment 6 months later to say how much I loved your skit or recreation at the start of the video. Love it and this analysis.
This is a text wall. You have been warned.
Honestly I’d call this a bad read.
You could read the story as a punishment for selfishness, but following that thread means you’d have to accept that the Butcher’s saying that girls should be punished for having desires at all. That’s a very poor take on the show and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, personally.
(Edit because I just binged the show again: While Kyubey basically states that making wishes is a mistake in episode 11, Madoka explicitly refutes this in episode 12.
'I don't want to let all those girls cry. All those Puella Magi who believed in their hope and fought against witches. I want them to smile to the bitter end. I will destroy the rules that prevent that happening, I will change them. This is my wish, this is my prayer. Now fulfil it! Incubator!'
'If someone tells me it's wrong to hope. I will tell them they're wrong every time.'
'It'll be alright, it'll surely be alright. Trust in me! After all, Puella Magi grant hopes and dreams!'
She changed the rules, that's the point of the ending.)
Homura isn’t sociopathic, she’s just seen these people die over and over and over again.
Note her response in the first couple of timelines when they die. She’s distraught. That’s not a sociopathic person.
Her numbness is indicative of trauma.
You also don’t hold the other girls to the same standards as Homura. You say Homura doesn’t wish to straightforwardly bring Madoka back to life or for Walpurgisnacht to not exist. But Sayaka didn’t wish for Kyousuke to love her, Kyoko didn’t wish for her family to be happy, Mami didn’t wish for companionship or her family back.
None of the girls wished for what they really wanted, except Madoka. That’s the difference.
Homura’s wish to protect Madoka is because she wants to return her kindness. You’ll note this idea of ‘protecting’ someone is common in anime. You could say it’s possessive but I’d argue you’d have to say the same about say… Mamoru and Usagi?
I agree that Homura does start to see Madoka more as a theoretical at some point, but I’d argue that’s only normal when she’s forced to discard timelines hundreds of times in pursuit of a single goal. After you see your friends die so many times, you’re going to start approaching it as a puzzle to solve rather than emotionally engaging, for your own sake.
Homura does remember who Madoka is, of course she does. She told Kyubey the whole story. She was just playacting for her mother’s sake.
Given how Homura has been forced to view Madoka as an object to be saved by virtue of having abandon her again and again, I can absolutely see a scenario in which she locks Madoka in a pocket dimension surrounded by things she thinks would make her happy.
What I have a problem with is how she keeps her there knowing Madoka is unhappy.
Looking at her thoughts when she’s transforming into a witch isn’t really necessarily a reflection of her true self. If you’ve ever experienced depression or know someone who has, you know how warped your perspective can become. She’s not in her right mind here.
Plus, Rebellion breaks a lot of established lore.
1. How the hell can Homura steal Madoka’s powers?
People say it’s because she’s a witch at that point but by definition of Madoka’s wish, witches cannot exist in the same space as her. That’s why the Incubators had to separate out Homura into a new dimension.
Also Homura was no longer a witch by the time Madoka came to save her, by definition, Witches cannot revert to Magical Girls.
2. Madoka is canonically the most powerful Magical Girl in existence due to having all those fate lines tied around her. Homura is simply not on the same playing field.
Edit: In fact, she's not a magical girl at all. She's a god. She doesn't operate by the same rules.
3. Madoka is outside the Law of Cycles. She can’t be prevented from fulfilling her duty. By definition even if she was prevented, that timeline would be undone to ensure her wish is still fulfilled.
4. Homura is suddenly characterised as a creepy stalker/yandere type despite having very little characterisation as such before that point. Following a friend around to ensure she doesn’t die does not a stalker make.
On the wishes:
Madoka’s wish was actually the most selfish, because it was exactly what she wanted.
What Sayaka wanted was for Kyousuke to return her feelings, but she wished for him to get better in the hopes that would happen. It’s not that she didn’t want him to get better, it just wasn’t what she most wanted. So she ended up sacrificing her own life and happiness for a boy who never gave a shit about her.
Sayaka wasn’t a bad person, she was just idealistic and so concerned with what a hero of justice ‘should’ do that she neglected her own emotional wellbeing, leading to her becoming a witch.
She was always going to despair when she made such a selfless wish, because it meant she lost everything.
Mami wanted to keep living, but she didn’t want to be alone. But since she wasn’t specific enough, Kyubey just brought her back and not her family. Again, not selfish enough.
Homura wanted Madoka to be happy, but because she was unaware of the nature of the magical girl contract she only realised the only way to make that happen was to ensure she never became a magical girl in the first place… which wasn’t really in the bounds of her wish.
Madoka had all the information at her disposal and knew exactly what she wanted, making a wish that had no loopholes. She knew what she was sacrificing and what it meant, but because her wish was airtight that meant she would always be satisfied. She wanted the Witches destroyed by her own hand, past, present and future. That meant she could never die or become a witch herself, or the wish would not be granted.
The only way Madoka could die would be if the Magical Girl system was entirely eradicated, which she would also be fine with. Either way she wins.
That’s the difference. She doesn’t accept the despair. She refuses to.
‘As long as my wish is granted, I have no need for despair!’
This is a pretty good take, and puts words to my dissatisfaction with rebellion. It undoes the best case ending Madoka earned, so Homura can get a "creepy stalker" ending. It upsets a good (if admittedly incomplete with regard to Homura) story and just leaves us hanging. Plus, it feels a lot like a cash grab. The OG anime is a near perfect masterpiece, and everything they add is like some idiot trying to make a sequel to the Sistine Chapel. Please just stop.
I agree with most of your take, but I have a few notes myself.
1. Homura is no longer the soft girl who wanted to save her friends when she made her wish. She's changed, and her feelings towards all the girls have changed, including Madoka. Madoka was her friend at first, but by last timeline she loves her, her love warped by the trauma of reliving the same cycle of death. What happened in Rebellion was the logical conclusion to Homura, in that I agree with the video.
2. Homura is totally on the same playing field as Madoka. Fate lines were tied around Madoka as much as they were tied around Homura, after all she was the artificer of them all. Not only that, but if I remeber correctly, a witch's power is reflective of the amount of despair they go through because of their wish. And most likely no any other magical girl went through the despair Homura went through. Her feelings of love are not the same as their peer's. She may look the same age, but she lived many timelines (i read that about a hundred, which would mean around 12 years). Her love for Madoka is the kind of love an adult feels. And she had to watch her die a lot of times, even kill her at Madoka's request. I'd say all this woud be enough to make Homura as powerful as Madoka, and that would mean she could bend any of God-Madoka's rules.
3. Rebellion makes a fair portrayal of Homura's complex feelings. I'd say that if people read Homura as a yandere/stalker because of it, that's on them. Her love for Madoka, her personality, and her actions are not that simplistic.
I agree with all of this. This was an interesting video, but also excessively harsh. The worst part for me was the claim that Sayaka outright isn't a good person. WAY too severe, in my opinion. Sayaka was a good person - just a 14 year old put in an overwhelmingly terrible and inescapable situation who eventually broke down. Simple as that.
@@88vicky88 Homura has not aged, she's still physically and mentally 14. Time does not affect her otherwise we would see her physically change. Making Homura an adult adds some creepy paedophilic implications which I don't think was the intention.
Homura is not tied to those fate lines because the reason she travelled back in time was hinged on Madoka's fate and not her own. It didn't matter what happened to her, she was allowed to change where Madoka was forced to stay the same.
Homura is already powerful due to the despair she carries, that would not change. There is only ONE Homura but there are countless Madoka's all converging upon a single point. That's what they mean by fate lines. Homura didn't change herself through time travel. There was only one of her.
.
Regarding Homura's memories of the past, it was my understanding that she remembered Madoka and everything regarding the Law of Cycles (and yapping about all this stuff is what provoked the incubators to imprison her).
I didn't get the impression that Madoka was telling Homura "what she wanted to hear" in the flower field scene. It's just that the version of Madoka without all of her memories of the past is also a Madoka that hasn't gone through the character development needed to make that sacrifice, aka the "pure" Madoka that she wanted to protect in the first place.
I will also say that the witch state doesn't represent delusion insomuch as it reflects an intense (but "permanent") emotional state. Someone might cry hysterically at a funeral and try to jump into the grave, but that doesn't automatically translate to those actions being dishonest or completely irrationaly even if they're maladaptive and basically whacky.
I don't NECESSARILY think Homura was acting without Madoka in mind. I thought that the scene in the flower field was her coming to the understanding that Madoka wasn't OK with sacrificing herself and that she'd betrayed Madoka by failing to protect her. Madoka DID disappear and become a non-human entity as a result of her wish. Even if it was played as being something voluntary and good, the material result isn't that much different than when Madoka sacrificed herself and became a witch at the end or Walpurgisnacht (Becoming a witch is bad. Becoming the law of cycles is "good." But Madoka's still "dead" either way). The fake world at the end is the only version of reality where Madoka can be safe and "alive" even if it's twisted. Homura calls herself the devil because she perceives Madoka as a god that she's acting in opposition to.
Cool video even though I disagree with these particular interpretations. Nice breakdown on the character's arcs. Of course I don't have as much to say about those because for some reason complaining is easier for me than giving honest praise. =_=
she could try to save mami, but mami cant handle the truth, she would end up killing the others when faced with the truth about magical girls, and mami is an tough foe, homura has no guarantee that she can defeat mami, and if homura dies there is no hope to save then all, trying to save mami makes no sense.
we saw at the anime (or maybe at the first 2 movies? ) what mami would do if she kne the truth.
sayaka would do the sacrifice no matter what, she was "poisoined" by the love.
as for sakura, i dont know, but the selfishness that she showed allowing to become witches , even if they have to harm inocent people, so she can collect more grief seeds... is homura even wrong to not save her? i mean "a thief who robs a thief deserves 100 years of forgiveness", sakura showed no empaty for unknown peoples lifes, why would homura have empaty for her?
even if she did, she may have tried to save her in a few timelines, she couldnt so she decided to focus only on madoka.
and homura being bad? i dont know, i can't blame her decision, after everything she has suffered only to see madoka's fate being worse than death: to sacrifice her own existence. not to mention that with such sacrifice, QB didnt got any punishment and still tried to use homura as an ginea pig to test the teory of the existence of madoka, sigh.
even if homura simply had chose to die in the hands of madoka, there would be no guarantee that QB would not find anotherway to screw thigns up.
also you missed the point of, where homura powers came from, magical girls produce energy from their feelings, and the
sick love that homura has defy logic, common sense or scale when converted to energy , love dont make sense anyway =p, so its like the power of friendship or power of love that some animes have, QB tried to use despair as the source of power, but and desperate, sinfull, painfull, sick love such as homura's love is much stronger
sorry for my english, i hope i made it clear despite my limitations =p
I would point out that she's clearly not bent out of shape by their deaths and acts more distant because she's seen them die hundreds of times and would as a result be inclined to view them as more inevitable, something she can't afford to think about for Madoka. The best comparison I can make is Rika from Higurashi, who was only stirred back into caring about her own life after dying thousands of times because one of her friends literally created a miracle (and she was also turned into a frighteningly powerful witch by it, fancy that). And her perception of Madoka as someone who needs to be protected is the natural conclusion of seeing her get killed by an overwhelming enemy. In that sense, I would argue it's less a possessive sense than a sort of "you can't possibly know what you're dealing with the way I do, therefore you must stay away from this because there's no way it can possibly go well for you".
And the fact her witch name is different is also something. It's even nuttier when they're dressed closer to magical girls yet are called witches. And that witches seem to be born in the girls' darkest, lowest points in their life. I wonder if the creator was a fan of the series and decided for a magical girl show based on that series' concepts, since many elements of the genre existed within the series, even though it is not all classified as one; in fact it couldn't be further from it.
@@ShadowSkyX The witches in Umineko are VERY different from usual conceptions of magical girls, or witches for that matter. That said, Madoka does throw in a lot of references to it (Homura's witch outfit in particular), so I think it was likely a big source of inspiration
Thank you. This video awakened me from the fact that I should not be a part of the "Homura did NOTHING wrong!" group but rather the "Homura did some things wrong" group
I totally agree with you and while I can empathize with Homura's struggle, her relationship with Madoka is super unhealthy and codependent. I really do believe that certain people shouldn't be friends, and I don't think Homura is a good friend (or possible lover) for Madoka. She's manipulative and selfish. She doesn't want Madoka to be happy, she wants Madoka for herself. All of her feelings for Madoka are introspective, not outward. She idolizes and puts Madoka on a pedestal, believing her to be the only person who can help her loneliness.
She "loves" Madoka in her own twisted logic, but I don't think Madoka or I would consider that "love". She wants control. She wants to own Madoka.
THANK YOU!
Objectively speaking I think what you say is right, but I don't judge her too harshly myself due to her age and the experiences she's gone through (I think people can forget sometimes just how young 14 really is). I think Homura could change and improve greatly if she had a few peaceful years of downtime to detox, and to age physically/mentally beyond middle school.
@@DrCasey THANK GOD somebody FINALLY brought up the fact that they're middle schoolers, a time when literally NONE of us were mentally developed, and most of us were struggling with learning these important social and romantic lessons for ourselves- the hard way. That's what makes the series so compelling to me, I had a rough time growing up and sympathize with basically every one of them. Take out the magical girl elements and you have the harsh reality of being 14 all by itself
the nature of homura’s wish demands this to be granted to her (she can never die as long as madoka is alive), so she quite literally cant help it. however this further then explains hers actions in rebellion by keeping a core part of madoka away from her, so thus attempting to give madoka the peace of not knoing homura’s existence (since im sure homura is quite familiar with constantly being plagued by another’s existence regardless of choice)
@@KapnKrowe Not to mention,,, Homura is implied to more or less to have no family, possibly an orphan for that matter. I mean, we never see any family members, and on top of that when we see her past she is in terrible shape and considering suicide. So Madoka finally getting through to her and telling Homura that she does matter, might be the very moment that changed her, that made her consider giving life a chance, because she was the first person who cared.
Without Madoka, Homura would literally be dead, magical shenanigans or not. So while it's obviously not a healthy obsession, I think it's also understandable in that context, Madoka is the closest thing Homura has ever had to a family, let alone her heart. Whatever her past is, it's implied very well that Homura literally has nothing to return to. Madoka is forever grateful for her healthy and loving family she has and constantly sees herself as unworthy of any of it, constantly willing to sacrifice herself for someone else's good. But for Homura, Madoka and everything that makes her so kind is the first thing that broke through that veil of nothing she had to look forward to, and she can't understand why someone who matters so much to others would sacrifice herself, while Homura, with absolutely nothing, has to watch her die or get erased from existence.
In the end, Homura's efforts aren't in vain, and they give Madoka the time and energy to make a choice that can save Magical Girls from their fate of becoming witches and living in torment, except for one... Homura. In the end, Madoka holds onto hope, and passes it onto Homura with the ribbon. That single event changes everything, it physically attaches Madoka to the world still and to Homura's memories, and thematically places the role of the main character squarely in Homura's place. With the passing back of the ribbon at the end of Rebellion, the torch is now in Madoka's hand. I look forward in seeing how Madoka has to navigate this new world, as just as much as Homura has countless memories of Madoka, it seems that Madoka has some degree of memory and attachment to all those lives and timelines, and even if Homura loves Madoka, it seems for her own sake Homura is desperate to become completely forgotten by her instead, for her own sake (but also probably still struggling to keep her distance to make sure she's safe) .
everytime he says "madoka" it sounds like "monika"
JUST MONIKA
so
madoka = Monika
sayaka = sayori
homura = yuri
kyoko = natsuki
mami is.... mc?
Stefan Brockelbank why lmao
but I’ve come up with a better one
mami= Monika
sayori= madoka or sayaka
Yuri= Homura
Natsuki= kyoko or sayaka
Just Madoka
kyubey - monika (mastermind, goes for the long impossible greater goals compared to lesser mortals > prolonging universe/becoming real 3d girl)
madoka - mc (the world revolve around them)
homura - yuri (mentally unstable and will sacrifice everything for their obsession once devoting their love to main chars)
homura resetting time - yuri knaifu jutsu (both are addicting to them)
sayaka - sayori (both also depressed to the max, pretend to be happy to cover it)
kamijou - sayori's rainclouds/rope (both put sayaka/sayori into despair)
kyoko - natsuki (food and tsundere (and buff str))
mami - natsuki's cupcakes (eaten whole!)
bebe/charlotte - everyone who eats natsuki's cupcakes. including players.
kyoko's dad - natsuki's dad (abusive dad)
witches - ddlc game script (turning everything that is once sweet and fluffy into cthulhu).
madoka's ribbon - mc's delete button (ends their respective stories with godlike actions. you can't wear a delete button as hair decoration though).
Did somebody say hope and despair..?
*monokuma and Junko stick heads out*
XD
komaeda: did someone said HOPE
stopkeeper
Junko; f*ck don’t steal my hand again dood
@@stopkeeper4729 Jesus what would happen if Komaeda became a Magical Girl... I didn't need that image in my head
@@sarahbostrom9358 it would be something interesting
Madoka Magica is one of the greatest anime masterpieces ever made, and it completely changed the entire mahou shoujo genre.
I can't wait for the 4th movie.
Jesus fucking thank you. I’m so sick of people trying to paint Homura as some sort of saint who has nothing but pure love for Madoka.
Think about what Homura says to Kyoko (and later vice versa) in episode 9: "You can't fight and carry her. You'll get us both killed." Homura is working on a tight deadline with several challenging tasks on her agenda: she has to protect her best friend from harm, try to outwit and outmaneuver Kyubey (who has millennia of experience on his side), and prepare for the battle with the mega-witch Walpurgisnacht. It is simply more practical for Homura to prioritize certain tactics and people over others, however coldhearted her approach may seem. Trying to save everyone would undoubtedly use up valuable time and resources, possibly resulting in no one getting saved. Moreover, just how far are you willing to go with this idea of "She should have done more to save the others"? Should Homura go out of her way to protect magical girls from other cities as well and try to explain Kyubey's true motives to all of them? What makes their lives worth less than those of Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko?
Also consider what Mrs. Kaname tells Madoka in Episode 6: "Sometimes, doing the wrong thing for someone is exactly the right thing to do. If you find yourself at a dead end and there's no other options left, doing something the wrong way might do the most good." Homura has already tried unsuccessfully to solve her problem the "right" way for innumerable timelines. At the end of Rebellion, she decided it was finally time to take a risk and do something "wrong" by becoming the worst version of herself to prevent Madoka from being exploited again and inflict retribution on the incubators. If she cannot beat them at their own game, then she can at least slow them down for a while and buy herself some time to think of her next move. Even if Homura's actions in Rebellion are not entirely justifiable, they are still consistent with her character arc and the themes introduced in the original series.
What gets me about when people analyze these characters too is they seem to forget they’re literally children
Like of course they’re going to make selfish and nonsensical decisions
Their frontal lobe ain’t got shit rn lol
Not only that, they’re being actively manipulated and lied to.
That’s literally a huge point of the show lol
I think you overlooked her behavior in the earliest cycles of the timeline. She only became indifferent to everyone sans Madoka after coming to the brink of absolute despair multiple times. That she had the strongest connection to Madoka, who is also her only source of hope and thus the one reason she didn't become a witch before Rebellion, is why eventually she only acts in service of Madoka's safety and happiness.
Also note how she doesn't even wish that she was born without health issues.
To me, this confirms that she places all her sense of identity and worth into Madoka to where she would be okay with having grown up with the chronic health issues if it meant aligning the stars for them to be classmates, meet, be targeted by witches to be rescued and become friends. She is okay with her childhood sucking if it allows for her to have Madoka in her life. Maybe I'm putting more weight into it than I should because I'm projecting, but if I list a friend in a similar way, my train of thought would lead me to thinking I could have saved them if I didn't have the chronic issues that kept me weak physically or kept my personality weak if not having them would result in a higher self-esteem and being more capable to do things needed to save them. I wonder if she considered wishing this at some point but her train of thought concluded that her health problems and low self-esteem is what helped get Madoka into her life and therefore decided that if anything she wouldn't wish them away.
every few months i come back a rewatch this video because it is the ultimate and perfect summary of why i love the madoka series so much. your writing and presentation are comprehensible and flawless- thank you for making this!!!!!!!!!
First off, I loved this video and thanks for all your insight. My personal view of Homura is that she, by the end of it all, exhausted. Let me explain. Homura didn't not care for the other girls. She traveled through the same but different scenarios. Same shit different day, in where she ultimately ends up with demise. Its just at the point we see her at, most of the time, is the point of becoming numb from doing the same thing over over over again. Exhausted... She seen all of them die and realized that saving them all was not an option. This reveals itself especially when mama, starts killing her friends. She was doing it to save them from becoming witches but it still happened. The scene where the wires are all connected around Homuras and madokas bodies represents just that. That it did happen. Even with going back in time. That's one of the reasons why madoka is the only one she can save and why Homura is exhausted. She became cold as a result of this, among several other issues and struggles. She was obsessed with madoka but it was because, but by far not limited to, knowing madoka was very important and that she was innocent (watching her own innocents die as a result with madoka).
Plus, I believe that becoming a witch is the fate worse then death, mostly because it was the fate of all magical girls. Fate is an major key in the whole series. Fate is the very reason why Homura lost hope. Fate is why homura has to kill madoka(innocents) in the first place. Is to prevent her from becoming the worst witch of all time.
I hope I wasn't too confusing... Thanks for ur time. Feedback appreciated.
I really didn't know anyone didn't like Rebellion??? I loved every second of it, specially the start with everything being seemingly all right but so many little things being just wrong. I found it really creepy and loved the way they revealed it was actually a witch labyrinth
Why do my $150 statues keep turning to jello
Thank you for understanding. I'm so tired of seeing critiques on this show that are undeserved. So much about this story was missed by many of its viewers, this is very refreshing and well made
I am really happy to have come across this video again and equally sad to see that Shamelessly Dorky's video series seems to have dissapeared.
Thank you for reminding me yet again how much I love this movie.
Your five points correlate to the five stages of grief.
1. Denial
2. Bargaining .
3. Anger
4. Acceptance
5. Depression
Then I rewatch the series I feel like each magical girl is symbolic of each stage of grief
Mami - Denial
Sayaka - Anger
Kyouko - Bargaining
Homura - Depression.
Madoka - Acceptance
I think the deal with Homura "somehow gaining immense power" banks on the nature of wishes briefly touched upon in Sayaka's arc- that the action of each wish has an equal and opposite reaction in the form of a curse. Homura's power being the reaction to Madoka's wish.
Which also brings in the question as to what the reaction to Homura's wish would be.
Rebellion was a fantastic movie and it left me in aw from Homura's actions towards the end. Th ending still sticks too me after only seeing it a couple days ago. I feel like a rewatch is an order for me since I am still rather confused on what Homura thought should be done. In the end, she's honestly one of the most interesting characters I've seen in anime.
Really solid analysis. I was thinking of watching rebellion and this may be the wake up call I needed
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh the soundtrack is giving me like sickening nostalgia...does anyone understand what I mean? Man what a flashback to middle school and the intense fever dream that this show was. Still, it definitely made me idk DIFFERENT, it was quite the experience and I'm glad I watched it back in middle school, I feel like the me now couldn't appreciate it.
I love homura. She went through so much. But I love all the characters
I would give her a hug
Homura isn't exactly evil, but she takes her obsession with Madoka a liiiittle too far.
Ain't THAT the truth >.
imagine if homura went through all that, finally landed on the correct timeline, only for madoka to tell her she's not gay
That would be funny, but in a really sad way
Watching this movie really takes out the happiness from your soul.
Pretty sure that was the idea haha
This gave me a new perspective on Homura as a character and her actions through out the series. This video kind of blew my mind. GREAT job articulating this theory! It deeply enriches the meaning of the glorious twist end of the film. Homura's wish to save Madoka over and over again appears to be selfless, but at the end of the day the wish enables Homura to control Madoka's fate-- and that is selfish. It makes the twist at the end seem less contrived and actually meaningfully tragic. Love your vidya !!
The main thing I look at when thinking about Homura as a good or bad character is her intent. She did a lot of bad things, she made a lot of mistakes, but her intention was always good, she always meant to do good by Madoka, in fact she got so obsessed with this objective, that it totally eclipsed her sense of reason, she was overcome completely and boiled down only to this original mission she set herself. It's a tragic story, a character who was SO devoted to doing good that she lost sight of what is right and wrong along the way.. But, the seed that sewed all of these events was so pure and good, and in my opinion that's what's so sad about Homura Ameki :(
I totally agree! It took me three watches of Rebellion to really get the movie on a narrative level (symbolism is not really my thing), but between the 2nd and 3rd watch I read a blog post about Homura's obsessive and possessive nature, and it really put all the pieces of the puzzle together for me. Great video!