Its the same thing!!! None of them have shortcomings if properly heat treated (great blade steel), unfortunately its very unforgiving in production set up..
@@georgeyoung4292 They can all be great but every steel has shortcomings. I'd argue most steel is great blade steel when properly heat treated and given good geometry.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Absolutely agreed... I would discourage ppl from buying "m390" knives for 100$ witch is where all bad experiences coming from.. You are better off with well made sandvik than screwed up "premium steel" and unfortunately some knife manufacturers design their knives as fidget tool rather than cutting tool..
@@georgeyoung4292 that's kind of a dumb theory...these knife steels are not made by knife companies. They are made by steel companies who make steel products for other applications too.
Awesome, easy to follow break down! I've tried to explain to people why I love S110V so much but I'll just send them to this video from now on to save time.
Likewise just depends on how u can sharpen them mine does fine but I don’t bi… about sharpening the steel know what to do and when to do it , it comes with experience, PaY attention 🤷♂️
@@EngineersPerspective701 and yet they all cut like shit and will be outperformed by a well designed knife made of damn aebl or vg10 because the grinds on basically all EDC knives are overbuilt trash made for lowest common denominator gorillas. especially since the most use the most of these knives get is cutting paper or opening mail, aside from sitting in a drawer collecting dust.
@@user-xf4es7eh9yall of my super steels cut brilliantly and the blade geometry on most of my knives is on point, especially the Spyderco Para series. Maybe you should learn how to sharpen? Buy better knives? Sounds like a you problem whatever it is...
I’ve been slowly delving into steel chemistry, this was a an excellent view and easy to follow👍. Learned something about M390😳. Been trying to snag a 15V, 10V…but price/availability issues. K390 sounds great, but not attracted to FRN handles.
To add to your comment about sharpening s110v, I have sharpened it on a double stuff 2. It was easy to sharpen relatively. The difficulty in getting that crisp edge is consistency of the angle. It is not forgiving it that regard.
Excellent analysis. I have never liked M390 and its variants after experiencing it on a ZT and Lion Steel. I got the Manix 2 LW in S110V when they first came out initially I had trouble sharpening but I think that was normal since it was really my first time working with it. There are a few things that bother me about Spyderco as a company but no one else is offering regular production models in S110V and K390 and that fact is straight awesome. These days if I am carrying a knife with high wear resistance it is either Rex45 or K390. I like them both a lot. Keep up the great work. Not a lot of channels with the quality content you put out.
Really appreciate the compliment! I’ve always loved spyderco but do understand that they aren’t what every knife person is after. They’re straight shooters and go balls to the wall on sick steel with good heat treats that keeps me coming back! Personally like the looks and designs too which helps. K390, Rex45 and Maxamet are my favorites right now. Only things that don’t leave me wanting more.
Did you get in on the Mule Team K294 run? @@EngineersPerspective701 I am totally taken with the beauty of the high end metal alloys of various types. 10V, 15V, Magnacut, Maxamet, K390, Vanax, S90V, S110V, Tungsten Carbide.
I like S110V the most among the very high carbide steels for its corrosion resistance. M390 and S90V are theoretically tougher, however, steels of this category are all brittle and no one actually has any functional advantage from toughness over others . S110V is my boring low-maintenance steel. Low sharpness working edge last forever, doesn’t scratch nor rust. However, I really can’t use a super acute edge angle or do any work near ceramic or glass or cut very dirty material where it might sustain hard-to-repair damage ,since its grindability is very low. And if I need to cut in proximity with glass and ceramic, some 420 cheap(yet decent, eg. ARCOS and Victorinox) knives are really useful. Despite many people call 420 trash, it is impossible to chip and I can sharpen one under one minute, so there is no concern with damage at all, very practical steel.
That sounds like a perfect use case for S110V. I think the same way with avoiding dirty materials, etc on specific knife steels because nothing will stand up to a rock, sand or whatever. In my Leatherman videos I’ve said that I am a fan of their 420 for the same reason as you. You can darn near anything with over the day and bring back a razor edge in no time. It’s extremely nice having that as an option.
Kiya put out a kitchen knife, gyuto in Hap72 a crazy high carbide steel... That has Molybdenum in 8.2% by weight, highest I can think of... You don't see very many past 5% as you said. Excellent video ! Love the breakdowns, your presentation style is straight forward, and easy to follow and understand. Really hope you do this with more steels
I’d love to see some discussion around Hap72 because I don’t even know what happens when there is that much Mo! What kind of hardness and overall performance are you seeing with it? I’ve got a playlist with a few more of these if you’re interested!
There are high moly class steels. M1 being one with 8.2-9.2% moly. M10 has up to 8.5%. M33, M42 and M47 have 9-10%. M62/cpm rex 20 has 10.5%. M class is a high moly class with some being moly cobalt steels. Most are pretty old and some aren't being used or have an upgraded version created. Looking around the zknives app you find a lot of interesting steels.
and I bet it has the geometry of an axe, a secondary bevel you can see from the moon, and cuts like shit just like the meglio gimmick. Kitchen knives don't need crazy high carbide steels. I'd bet my house a $40 victorinox made of cheap german stainless steel cuts better in the kitchen and for longer.
What you say about M390 highlights the point that is very important with these high tech steels: They need extremely precise and tailored heat treatment cycles. If the heat treatment is done correctly, there are just very little Chromium carbides to begin with and they dissolve during the heating cycle. But for every material you need very specific parameters. In this selection of materials it is much more important to have the right heat treatment that exactly fits the alloy, than the actual alloy themselves. They are all great materials and 99,9% of people won't be able to tell the difference at all...
I’d take it a step further and say regardless of steel the heat treat is the heart and soul of the blade making all the difference. That said you can’t turn AEB-L into M390 or vice versa.
I completely disagree. It's not just high tech steels that require precise and tailored heat treatment. In every steel from worst to best, they all have their own parameters and even if close are not identical. Just putting the effort into high tech steels is not the answer. Heat treatment is everything. I'd take a very well heat treated o1 tool steel over a very poorly treated super steel any day of the week. And it doesn't matter how "super" or "high tech" the steel is, if the heat treatment is shit, so is the knife.
@@MDM1992 Then you maybe misunderstood me or I didn't make myself clear. Because I also think you are mostly right. Of course the heat treatment makes or brakes every blade steel. But different types of steels require heat treatments of vastly different complexities and precision requirements. A blacksmith can do a decent heat treatment on carbon or low alloy steels, simply with moving the blade in the forge until it "glows right" and dropping it in oil. Being 20°C off the perfect value doesn't hurt much and cannot even be prevented using these methods. Try that with one of those steels mentioned here and you will - most likely - not find any of the great advertised properties. They might still be okay-ish blades, but they won't be what the could be. Being 20°C off the perfect value has a very much relevant influence on the material performance. Or be 20°C too high at the precipitation step when making a blade from CPM M42. If you are lucky you can start over. But most likely the piece is trashed.
I had a s110v military. Excellent blade. I loved the wear resistance, mixed with the 60-62HRC. I’d love to try some s125v some day. If I do, I’ll pass the knife to you for a bit.
That would be amazing! Especially with a sick heat treat on it! I’m the same way where I think I’ll prefer S90V. I’ll be getting some from Benchmade after the holidays. Interested to see what I think of it from them
I got a custom Griptilian from Benchmade in s90v and I was extremely disappointed. It wouldn’t hold an edge, it deburred like bubble gum, it would roll or chip cutting cardboard. I tried everything from 300 to 8000 grit finishes and everything from 15 to 23 degrees per side as far as sharpening. I ended up sending it back for testing and Benchmade said it was in spec so I had to pay $75 to get the blade replaced with a 20cv one that has held up great. I tell everyone who will listen to stay away from Benchmade’s s90v. It really left a bad taste in my mouth
@@chrisf572 since benchmade warranties their knives, they have incentive to maximize toughness. This is usually antithetical to performance. Try spyderco’s s90v
@@chrisf572 it’ll be a blade replacement of my custom mini crooked River so not full price but that is absolutely my concern. I can’t justify buying $260 knife with a second rate heat treat and axe geometry
I love my paramilitary 2 in cpm s110v sooo much… $340 was steeeep for a pocket knife though I almost never wanna use it it’s so nice. Even tho I know the steel can handle a ton of beating
So much of steel performance comes from heat treat that really any steel can become at least a decent performer IMO. I have a knife in each of the M390 analogs and they all perform very differently because of the heat treat variation. Makes a nice test bed for effects of heat treat though!
Haven't noticed a real difference between my m390 and s110v blades in practice. Love em both, though I think by the numbers s110v has it beat. Makes sense though as I believe it's a much newer steel (could be wrong).
S110V is much newer for sure. I can see a person not noticing a ton of difference in edge life. Definitely very different during sharpening but even then it depends on a persons methods and goals
@@EngineersPerspective701 Oddly I've noticed s110v to be easier to sharpen, but I haven't been at it too long and switched to diamond stones recently. So, saying s110v with diamonds is easier than m390 without diamonds is fair but also probably obvious and unsurprising. With diamonds I would say s110v is easy enough. It isn't 14c28n but you can get in and out in ten to fifteen I think.
S110V is hard to sharpen, then goes dull for the easiest of reasons, it has driven me mad. I had to put it away. Now I always pick up my CPMS45VN, a good knife blade I can trust. Here is a trick. DON'T USE STONES to finish the S110V, I use my jeans material which comes up sharp fast. Anyway, the point is this, the A110V is frustrating. Just my experience. I know nothing about knives, just my experience. SO bad: I live in China, and I really thought I had a fake. But it was not.
Long story short, S90V is my preferred choice. The Spyderco S90V I tried was way more forgiving in sharpening then their S110V and the front end sharpness lasted quite a bit longer. The benchmade S90V had similar up front sharpness edge holding to S110V and it took a nice edge easier but was a little gummy compared to the S110V which was just a bit pickier about abrasives and technique. Not to suggest I’ve mastered S110V or anything. Only downside is you can feel the higher VC content of S110V in its working edge but it’s a minor difference.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts about it. Sounds like your experience is similar to Larrin's tests. It really makes one wonder if the original recipe S110V had superior wear resistance to S90V.
I'm gonna throw a huge wrench in this. I challenge you to grab some s90v and run some usage tests and you'll be blown away. S90v is the king of stainless 😁👊
Where the S125V at?! 😄 Appreciate all the content you’ve made btw! That’s definitely what I’ve heard. S90V is on my short list and I’m waiting for a Spydie sprint in it. Some of their heat treats on S90V have come out so nice for a factory knife that I don’t feel inclined to drop $260 on a benchmade
@@EngineersPerspective701 lol ah the mysterious s125v... the steel only Avengers and apparently Russians can get there hands on. Spydercos HT with s90v is pretty consistent, if you can track down a user sprint run manix lw or something grab it. The first day you use it your eyebrow will raise... then when you sharpen it you'll look at s110v with disgust, wondering why he's lied to you for so long... why the web of lies 🤣🤣 Appreciate the kind words, had no idea you watched any of my stuff 🙏👊
@@SuperSteelSteve Hell yeah man, I found you at some of your earliest videos. Gotta stay up to date with the HRC Police The Ruskies aren't screwing around. They love themselves some high performance stuff! Sounds like S110V will be lucky to be sleeping on the couch when S90 comes around!
All depends on a persons needs. If a person is going to thump on a blade does S110V even make sense? Might as well go with something tougher or less expensive. In terms of just Spyderco models. Check out the shaman
Must have landed just right for such a small fall to do that but I’ve seen a lot of broken S110V tips and whole blades on FB so I’m not super surprised I guess
@@souldigits_9545 Love mine too. It holds an edge, and was easy to sharpen in my experience. For a folder with no tangential stress its very good in my opinion.
I have a spyderco Military with G-10 scales Blurple with S110V steel. I love it. I also have a Benchmade Mini Griptillian with D2 steel & a Knives of Alaska Feather light with D2 steel. I absolutely love all three of them. How would you compare D2 to the V-10? I currently do not own a knife with V-10 but have considered it. All these knives I have are EDC knives.
Appreciate it! They are definitely on different parts of the spectrum. Couple of thoughts below. 1) 10V is not very stainless at all so go with Magnacut if that's a concern. 2) I highly recommend diamond abrasives for both steels but 10V is required IMO. If you don't have diamond stones then go Magnacut. 3) The edge holding on most 10V will substantially outperform Magnacut. If both front end sharpness and working edge are important then 10V.
So where does s45vn fall into all this? I've been considering getting a Para 3 with s45vn blade. I'm sure it's plenty good enough for what I will mostly use it for, just curious how it compares with these.
S45VN falls into the mid-range edge retention tier. Think "balanced". Balances the many blade steel properties edge retention, toughness, stainless, strength, edge stability. What I think it does well is the "balance" point moves up and up over time with steel design advancements and heat treatment optimization. I think S45VN and Magnacut represent the top end of the balanced category and both pushed it upwards.
@@nikobuerk346 Can't say for sure because I haven't used it. If I was forced to make a call I would say that it is likely a worthwhile and noticeable upgrade. It's REALLY going to depend on the heat treatment. I would suggest looking at Spyderco.
Because the type of performance that is gained in S110V over say S90V is both small and in areas that are not beneficial in my usage while also being more expensive and difficult to work with.
I use cheap diamond paste on a balsa strop, and it keeps the edge of my ukpk absolutely screaming sharp, I've got a slight convex on it, which I put on over a year ago, and the regular stopping is just about all I need. !!
They are very very different to start! There is a lot of personal preference but I’d guess that most would prefer white and blue in kitchen knives over s110v to start! I actually have a Carter Cutlery Apprentice Original model neck knife in white #1. It’s philosophy is gaining edge retention through high hardness that supports the up front fine edge holding. It performs far superior to S30V, S110V in that regard. Because it only has iron carbides in the matrix though it essentially has no working edge when it dulls in my use. Just goes dead’s flat whereas S110V has about 4/5 of its edge life still to go. Because the steel is so simple and clean it sharpens up really easy and amazing. So it’s ratio of ease of sharpening to up front sharpness is extremely high even when compared to powder steels. Blue being pretty similar because there isn’t enough tungsten carbide to make a noticeable difference in edc tasks. That “design” is really nice and enjoyable for myself and others seem to be into it too of course! Do I prefer it over all else? No but I have a spot for it in my life and really enjoy it when I go there! Hope that answers the question!
@@EngineersPerspective701 I know😔 I've got a notice about violating youtube community guidelines🤦♂️ I think because of profanity.. Anyway i wanted you to look for Androshchuk Custom Knives if you want to look for some rex121 , 15v s125v or whatever steel you may order.. Price of his work will blow your mind away.. His name is Gregory and without a doubt he makes some of the most beautiful art work pieces but in addition his heat treatment is awesome.. Check it out if you are interested.. He shows all of his creations on you tube🙏
@@georgeyoung4292 Looked him up, the polish he gets on those steels is amazing. Too bad, I think there was something of value in that thread for others. Maybe it's for the best though, not my most suave moments were in there!
I will be in the next few months once I get S90V put on my custom mini crooked River. I’m assuming I’ll like S90v more for how it sharpens. But if the heat treat is poopy it may ruin it for me. We’ll see!
S90v sharpens easier, holds an edge longer, is more rust resistant and is tougher... I have over a decade of experience with s90v, but I've been carrying s110v the past 6 months and it's great, but it's basically 90% as good as s90v in every single aspect. I really love how it takes an edge though, despite being a bit harder to sharpen, and needing more work on the finer stones. The s110v I've been using is from Shirogorov, Maxace and Spyderco. No HRC numbers, but I'm confident the Shiro was lagging behind the Spyderco and Maxace, so much so that I sold it to focus on the other two. Earlier this year I finally got a good example of s125v, but decided to familiarize myself with s110v before jumping directly from s90v to s125v. The 10v class is my favorite class of steels, Vanadis 10 specifically, and both s90v and s110v have been suitable alternatives when I've needed a stainless steel. Both are extremely impressive.
@@turing2376 I actually just came back to correct that. In the Shiro Kami in s110v I did notice better corrosion resistance, but that was just in EDC use. I never did any specific testing on it. When I did a 1% salt water test the s110v in the Maxace and pm2 definitely showed higher corrosion resistance than s90v. I had sold the Kami before I did the saltwater test. However, in all the s90v and s110v I've actually tested, the rust spots were removed completely with just some RemOil and a light cloth.
If I could only own 1 then Maxamet for sure. If I already had a high carbide, high hardness steel then S45VN. I really enjoy my S45VN para 3. Takes a great edge and doesn’t have a gummy burr. It’s not going to touch S110V edge retention but it’s way better than most mid range edge retention stainless steels out there
Some who doesn't need to be named chipped my s110v pm2 trying to open a bottle cap with it. I had just gotten the blade and I read online that factory edges can be brittle so maybe that's why the chip was so big.
Factory edges are definitely more brittle than a fresh hand sharpened edge. Usually it takes several sharpenings to get into that fresh steel. Get a course diamond stone and slowly work that chip out over 3 sharpenings doing it once a week is what I would do. Trying it in one go is time consuming and exhausting for any steel.
@@beepisbopis9613 the precision adjust is a great sharpener and there are tons of videos on how to get great results! It is also a slower sharpener like the KME so keep that in mind. You know it all depends on your use. I personally wouldn’t worry at all but if you like to pry and twist with your knife often then maybe it wasn’t the right way to go
Just bought a spyderco para 2 with s110v and the first cut I made was a little zip tie, so not much force at all, the zip tie cut no problem but the tip of the spine chipped off. That's a near 300 dollar knife in Canada and the fuxxing tip chipped on the first cut. If this is what I can expect from "super steels" I'll never buy anything "higher" grade then s30v again. Never had a benchmade chip sooo if I can get spyderco to warranty the blade I'll be selling it and sticking with anything but spyderco
Dog it’s going to be okay! Find a quality sharpener to get it how you want again or if you’re up for it, learn to do it yourself. A friend put the tip of my Maxamet manix into concrete and after 4min on a course diamond stone all was great again. Feel free to live your life with benchmade s30V and if you’re satisfied with it then great! But there is A LOT better out there. Magancut and M4 might be a nice spot for you to try beyond S30V. Otherwise I say go for K390 and never look back!
@Elite Knowledge it's a legit knife. S110v is just not a good working steel. Want a fancy knife that cuts boxes and stays in your pocket 90% of the time? S110v is the steel for you.
@@TMar129 well said, because if that would be the case? Having it in pocket 90% of the day, That's a waste. But i process food with it every day, on the run, the cutting of stuff is a bonus. But mostly it's the stainless property I'm after. K390 and M4 takes either too much maintenance or they are coated which isn't for food prep. The S110V is just wiped of and running along can continue! 😁
@Elite Knowledge I've gone back to carrying my benchmade bugout S30v almost every day. I still have the pm2, but it took another small chip, 100% my fault, and so it doesn't get carried often. I have enough pocket knives that I can rotate often, but the bugout is my go-to.
It could work with the right geometry and heat treatment I guess but it’s not a logical choice. Lots of other stainless steels that will take a more stabile edge, sharpen to a finer edge easier and cheaper to make blades in.
And here you have a perfect example of an armchair quarterback vs an actual athlete. The real world has spoken, M390 is an all around winner for KNIFE BLADES. If S110v was all you talk it up to be, it would be in everything. But its not. Chips like crazy and you end up sawing, not cutting. Metallurgy is an ART, not a science. You can take hints and make generalizations but exactly how any particular mix works IN PRACTICE is always tested IN PRACTICE before release...for a reason. Want to make a fair test, do it yourself. Get some raw blanks, make some identical blades then HEAT TREAT THEM TO IDENTICAL HARDNESS. If you do that, you'll find you are not just wrong, but FUCKING wrong.
You caught me red handed using and sharpening this example to form my own opinions based on my presences and use case to educate this discussion. Next time I’ll just see what the uneducated market decides to see if something is good or not. Agree the best way to understand a steel is to process it. Regardless though the end performance is measurable and that’s what matters to the everyday person as you ranted about above. So no it is not necessary to heat treat my own blades and no M390 is not an all around winner. If you want to hear my thoughts on M390 then check out this video. ua-cam.com/video/vzF2tv8A7E8/v-deo.html
@@EngineersPerspective701 Nope, I don't need to hear your opinion, it's already quite clear. Nice of you to infer real world characteristics from one example. My hands-on of some 300-400 samples says you're wrong. Not that it would influence my opinion, but seems the majority of the knife community including numerous testers have spoken. M390 is a winner when treated right. Of course, finding "right" is harder(get it) than finding poor examples. You've only got to look to Lionsteel, Ace, or Steel Will to see bad examples.
Depends on heat treatment. I have 20CV and 204P that I’d probably prefer the S110V I tried over them. But my M390 para 3 has nicely done and I’d probably choose it over all them. Most M390 has a weak heat treat so S110V is a safer option for those ready to sharpen with diamond abrasives
s90v is better in every way unless you need extra stainlessness. imo sc should quit the gimmicks and something actually interesting like say k390 at 65 hrc laminated in 14c28n or lc200n. No more than .4 mm or 15 thou bte. Maybe hire an industrial designer so their knives aren't designed in crayon. then maybe the costs they charge would be justified.
I’m trying to recall how Triple Bs turned out because that’s probably the max we will see out there. I feel like for myself this isn’t how I like my stainless though. Why not Maxamet or Rex121 at that point?!
Does cpm 20cv and cts204p improve on m390 shortcomings?
Nope, they’re all identical
Its the same thing!!! None of them have shortcomings if properly heat treated (great blade steel), unfortunately its very unforgiving in production set up..
@@georgeyoung4292 They can all be great but every steel has shortcomings. I'd argue most steel is great blade steel when properly heat treated and given good geometry.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Absolutely agreed... I would discourage ppl from buying "m390" knives for 100$ witch is where all bad experiences coming from.. You are better off with well made sandvik than screwed up "premium steel" and unfortunately some knife manufacturers design their knives as fidget tool rather than cutting tool..
@@georgeyoung4292 that's kind of a dumb theory...these knife steels are not made by knife companies. They are made by steel companies who make steel products for other applications too.
Awesome, easy to follow break down! I've tried to explain to people why I love S110V so much but I'll just send them to this video from now on to save time.
Really appreciate that!
Molybdenum will contribute to secondary hardening as well. Probably needed in s110v with the amount of carbides.
My PM3 S110V has been my favorite for a very good reason.
S110V cuts for days that's for sure
Likewise just depends on how u can sharpen them mine does fine but I don’t bi… about sharpening the steel know what to do and when to do it , it comes with experience, PaY attention 🤷♂️
I went with Maxamet for my top end Spyderco steel. I appreciate being able to get so many different steels to experience
Nice pick! We live in amazing times for a steel performance junkie!
@@EngineersPerspective701 and yet they all cut like shit and will be outperformed by a well designed knife made of damn aebl or vg10 because the grinds on basically all EDC knives are overbuilt trash made for lowest common denominator gorillas. especially since the most use the most of these knives get is cutting paper or opening mail, aside from sitting in a drawer collecting dust.
@@user-xf4es7eh9yall of my super steels cut brilliantly and the blade geometry on most of my knives is on point, especially the Spyderco Para series. Maybe you should learn how to sharpen? Buy better knives? Sounds like a you problem whatever it is...
The Military in S110V is one of my favorites.
I bet it’s a cutting beast!
Got mine on the way. Will be here Saturday m. I’m freaking stoked
I've just got the Spyderco Military in S110v, for some strange reason, it was slightly cheaper than the S30v version, !!
Boy, am I happy,,!!,,
Nice!!
I’ve been slowly delving into steel chemistry, this was a an excellent view and easy to follow👍. Learned something about M390😳. Been trying to snag a 15V, 10V…but price/availability issues. K390 sounds great, but not attracted to FRN handles.
I got a 15v shaman brand new with its box and paperwork i could sell you!
@fuccyahhat1229 ...Thanks for the offer, but bought too many knives I'll never be able to wear out.
@@roadracerqx893 cheers brother 😎💪🏼
M390 can be great with a good heat treatment but 15V, 10V, K390 are just smoking hot pretty consistently from Spyderco
To add to your comment about sharpening s110v, I have sharpened it on a double stuff 2. It was easy to sharpen relatively. The difficulty in getting that crisp edge is consistency of the angle. It is not forgiving it that regard.
Right on, Easy to get sharp but super unforgiving to get that perfect crips a la crisp
Excellent analysis.
I have never liked M390 and its variants after experiencing it on a ZT and Lion Steel.
I got the Manix 2 LW in S110V when they first came out initially I had trouble sharpening but I think that was normal since it was really my first time working with it.
There are a few things that bother me about Spyderco as a company but no one else is offering regular production models in S110V and K390 and that fact is straight awesome.
These days if I am carrying a knife with high wear resistance it is either Rex45 or K390. I like them both a lot.
Keep up the great work.
Not a lot of channels with the quality content you put out.
Really appreciate the compliment!
I’ve always loved spyderco but do understand that they aren’t what every knife person is after.
They’re straight shooters and go balls to the wall on sick steel with good heat treats that keeps me coming back! Personally like the looks and designs too which helps.
K390, Rex45 and Maxamet are my favorites right now. Only things that don’t leave me wanting more.
What don't you like about Spyderco as a company?
@@EngineersPerspective701 they are a very straightforward company. It’s almost like you just trust they will do what’s right.
Did you get in on the Mule Team K294 run? @@EngineersPerspective701 I am totally taken with the beauty of the high end metal alloys of various types. 10V, 15V, Magnacut, Maxamet, K390, Vanax, S90V, S110V, Tungsten Carbide.
I like S110V the most among the very high carbide steels for its corrosion resistance. M390 and S90V are theoretically tougher, however, steels of this category are all brittle and no one actually has any functional advantage from toughness over others .
S110V is my boring low-maintenance steel. Low sharpness working edge last forever, doesn’t scratch nor rust.
However, I really can’t use a super acute edge angle or do any work near ceramic or glass or cut very dirty material where it might sustain hard-to-repair damage ,since its grindability is very low.
And if I need to cut in proximity with glass and ceramic, some 420 cheap(yet decent, eg. ARCOS and Victorinox) knives are really useful.
Despite many people call 420 trash, it is impossible to chip and I can sharpen one under one minute, so there is no concern with damage at all, very practical steel.
That sounds like a perfect use case for S110V. I think the same way with avoiding dirty materials, etc on specific knife steels because nothing will stand up to a rock, sand or whatever.
In my Leatherman videos I’ve said that I am a fan of their 420 for the same reason as you. You can darn near anything with over the day and bring back a razor edge in no time. It’s extremely nice having that as an option.
Kiya put out a kitchen knife, gyuto in Hap72 a crazy high carbide steel... That has Molybdenum in 8.2% by weight, highest I can think of... You don't see very many past 5% as you said.
Excellent video ! Love the breakdowns, your presentation style is straight forward, and easy to follow and understand. Really hope you do this with more steels
I’d love to see some discussion around Hap72 because I don’t even know what happens when there is that much Mo! What kind of hardness and overall performance are you seeing with it?
I’ve got a playlist with a few more of these if you’re interested!
There are high moly class steels. M1 being one with 8.2-9.2% moly. M10 has up to 8.5%. M33, M42 and M47 have 9-10%. M62/cpm rex 20 has 10.5%. M class is a high moly class with some being moly cobalt steels. Most are pretty old and some aren't being used or have an upgraded version created. Looking around the zknives app you find a lot of interesting steels.
and I bet it has the geometry of an axe, a secondary bevel you can see from the moon, and cuts like shit just like the meglio gimmick. Kitchen knives don't need crazy high carbide steels. I'd bet my house a $40 victorinox made of cheap german stainless steel cuts better in the kitchen and for longer.
@@user-xf4es7eh9ydude, do you even like knives, or just like to hate on people who buy nice knives while stroking your Victorinoxes?
I wish this chart was made of MagnaCut, K490, s110v, 10v, M4. Love this stuff
The table is to drive some direct comparisons or key points. Those options are a bit jumbled up but maybe it'll pan out in a future steel video!
They are separated into high carbon, tool steel, and stainless steels, but the charts are there.
What you say about M390 highlights the point that is very important with these high tech steels: They need extremely precise and tailored heat treatment cycles. If the heat treatment is done correctly, there are just very little Chromium carbides to begin with and they dissolve during the heating cycle. But for every material you need very specific parameters.
In this selection of materials it is much more important to have the right heat treatment that exactly fits the alloy, than the actual alloy themselves. They are all great materials and 99,9% of people won't be able to tell the difference at all...
I’d take it a step further and say regardless of steel the heat treat is the heart and soul of the blade making all the difference. That said you can’t turn AEB-L into M390 or vice versa.
I completely disagree. It's not just high tech steels that require precise and tailored heat treatment. In every steel from worst to best, they all have their own parameters and even if close are not identical. Just putting the effort into high tech steels is not the answer. Heat treatment is everything. I'd take a very well heat treated o1 tool steel over a very poorly treated super steel any day of the week. And it doesn't matter how "super" or "high tech" the steel is, if the heat treatment is shit, so is the knife.
@@MDM1992 Then you maybe misunderstood me or I didn't make myself clear. Because I also think you are mostly right.
Of course the heat treatment makes or brakes every blade steel. But different types of steels require heat treatments of vastly different complexities and precision requirements. A blacksmith can do a decent heat treatment on carbon or low alloy steels, simply with moving the blade in the forge until it "glows right" and dropping it in oil. Being 20°C off the perfect value doesn't hurt much and cannot even be prevented using these methods.
Try that with one of those steels mentioned here and you will - most likely - not find any of the great advertised properties. They might still be okay-ish blades, but they won't be what the could be. Being 20°C off the perfect value has a very much relevant influence on the material performance. Or be 20°C too high at the precipitation step when making a blade from CPM M42. If you are lucky you can start over. But most likely the piece is trashed.
I had a s110v military. Excellent blade. I loved the wear resistance, mixed with the 60-62HRC. I’d love to try some s125v some day. If I do, I’ll pass the knife to you for a bit.
I prefer s90v because the toughness properties are supposed to be similar to 440c.
That would be amazing! Especially with a sick heat treat on it!
I’m the same way where I think I’ll prefer S90V. I’ll be getting some from Benchmade after the holidays. Interested to see what I think of it from them
I got a custom Griptilian from Benchmade in s90v and I was extremely disappointed. It wouldn’t hold an edge, it deburred like bubble gum, it would roll or chip cutting cardboard. I tried everything from 300 to 8000 grit finishes and everything from 15 to 23 degrees per side as far as sharpening. I ended up sending it back for testing and Benchmade said it was in spec so I had to pay $75 to get the blade replaced with a 20cv one that has held up great. I tell everyone who will listen to stay away from Benchmade’s s90v. It really left a bad taste in my mouth
@@chrisf572 since benchmade warranties their knives, they have incentive to maximize toughness. This is usually antithetical to performance. Try spyderco’s s90v
@@chrisf572 it’ll be a blade replacement of my custom mini crooked River so not full price but that is absolutely my concern. I can’t justify buying $260 knife with a second rate heat treat and axe geometry
I love my paramilitary 2 in cpm s110v sooo much… $340 was steeeep for a pocket knife though I almost never wanna use it it’s so nice. Even tho I know the steel can handle a ton of beating
Very steep indeed! Awesome steel that cuts for a loooong time
Very well described, you know your stuff. Thanks for posting this!
Appreciate that!
Excellent video! Very informative!😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dude I'm subscribed! Please make more videos like this. 👍 😎
I’ve got a handful on the channel so far, glad you enjoyed!
Vanadium carbide 🗡💪 make knife strong like bull 🐃
Hell ya you got it brother!
What does CPM-S110V love most in life?
"To crush my enmees, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentation of the vimen ".
Make knife, strong like bull erection
Everyone needs to see this. Lol thank you 🙏 glad someone else is on bored
Glad you enjoyed
204p m390 and 20cv are pretty similar but depending on the maker they can come up with some voodoo edges.
I feel like those voodoo edges are from properly heat treated steels. If you’re getting 20cv or it’s analogues for cheap then it’s probably poopy.
So much of steel performance comes from heat treat that really any steel can become at least a decent performer IMO.
I have a knife in each of the M390 analogs and they all perform very differently because of the heat treat variation. Makes a nice test bed for effects of heat treat though!
Haven't noticed a real difference between my m390 and s110v blades in practice. Love em both, though I think by the numbers s110v has it beat. Makes sense though as I believe it's a much newer steel (could be wrong).
S110V is much newer for sure. I can see a person not noticing a ton of difference in edge life. Definitely very different during sharpening but even then it depends on a persons methods and goals
@@EngineersPerspective701 Oddly I've noticed s110v to be easier to sharpen, but I haven't been at it too long and switched to diamond stones recently. So, saying s110v with diamonds is easier than m390 without diamonds is fair but also probably obvious and unsurprising.
With diamonds I would say s110v is easy enough. It isn't 14c28n but you can get in and out in ten to fifteen I think.
S110V is hard to sharpen, then goes dull for the easiest of reasons, it has driven me mad. I had to put it away. Now I always pick up my CPMS45VN, a good knife blade I can trust. Here is a trick. DON'T USE STONES to finish the S110V, I use my jeans material which comes up sharp fast. Anyway, the point is this, the A110V is frustrating. Just my experience. I know nothing about knives, just my experience. SO bad: I live in China, and I really thought I had a fake. But it was not.
Awesome video man. Subscribed!
Appreciate it!
I'd love to hear your opinion about S90V vs. S110V, including how they compare when sharpening :)
Long story short, S90V is my preferred choice.
The Spyderco S90V I tried was way more forgiving in sharpening then their S110V and the front end sharpness lasted quite a bit longer. The benchmade S90V had similar up front sharpness edge holding to S110V and it took a nice edge easier but was a little gummy compared to the S110V which was just a bit pickier about abrasives and technique. Not to suggest I’ve mastered S110V or anything.
Only downside is you can feel the higher VC content of S110V in its working edge but it’s a minor difference.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts about it. Sounds like your experience is similar to Larrin's tests. It really makes one wonder if the original recipe S110V had superior wear resistance to S90V.
I'm gonna throw a huge wrench in this.
I challenge you to grab some s90v and run some usage tests and you'll be blown away.
S90v is the king of stainless 😁👊
Where the S125V at?! 😄
Appreciate all the content you’ve made btw!
That’s definitely what I’ve heard. S90V is on my short list and I’m waiting for a Spydie sprint in it. Some of their heat treats on S90V have come out so nice for a factory knife that I don’t feel inclined to drop $260 on a benchmade
@@EngineersPerspective701 lol ah the mysterious s125v... the steel only Avengers and apparently Russians can get there hands on.
Spydercos HT with s90v is pretty consistent, if you can track down a user sprint run manix lw or something grab it.
The first day you use it your eyebrow will raise... then when you sharpen it you'll look at s110v with disgust, wondering why he's lied to you for so long... why the web of lies 🤣🤣
Appreciate the kind words, had no idea you watched any of my stuff 🙏👊
@@SuperSteelSteve Hell yeah man, I found you at some of your earliest videos. Gotta stay up to date with the HRC Police
The Ruskies aren't screwing around. They love themselves some high performance stuff!
Sounds like S110V will be lucky to be sleeping on the couch when S90 comes around!
That steel would be nice if spyderco made a beefier blade instead of a needle point and scalpel sharpness
All depends on a persons needs. If a person is going to thump on a blade does S110V even make sense? Might as well go with something tougher or less expensive.
In terms of just Spyderco models. Check out the shaman
I do have to say the tip of my Spyderco UKPK S110V blade chipped while dropping it onto the wooden kitchen counter during food preparation.
Must have landed just right for such a small fall to do that but I’ve seen a lot of broken S110V tips and whole blades on FB so I’m not super surprised I guess
Love my s110v manix but yes more britle
@@souldigits_9545 Love mine too. It holds an edge, and was easy to sharpen in my experience. For a folder with no tangential stress its very good in my opinion.
@@BigBellyEd yep, no prying tool
Manix 2 in m390 or s110v?? Just subbed last night, great channel
If you can get M390 then go that route. The heat treat they did on their Manixs and Para 3 M390 was awesome!
I have a spyderco Military with G-10 scales Blurple with S110V steel. I love it. I also have a Benchmade Mini Griptillian with D2 steel & a Knives of Alaska Feather light with D2 steel. I absolutely love all three of them. How would you compare D2 to the V-10? I currently do not own a knife with V-10 but have considered it. All these knives I have are EDC knives.
Only EDC VG-10 I tried was in a delica and I way preferred the D2 griptilian. Sold the delica because it was just a bit too soft for my taste
@@EngineersPerspective701 Thank you very much for the fast reply. I definitely love my D2 steel knives
d2>s110v
I learned something here! Thank you for a nice analysis. How would you compare 10v to magnacut?
Appreciate it! They are definitely on different parts of the spectrum. Couple of thoughts below.
1) 10V is not very stainless at all so go with Magnacut if that's a concern.
2) I highly recommend diamond abrasives for both steels but 10V is required IMO. If you don't have diamond stones then go Magnacut.
3) The edge holding on most 10V will substantially outperform Magnacut. If both front end sharpness and working edge are important then 10V.
So where does s45vn fall into all this? I've been considering getting a Para 3 with s45vn blade. I'm sure it's plenty good enough for what I will mostly use it for, just curious how it compares with these.
S45VN falls into the mid-range edge retention tier. Think "balanced". Balances the many blade steel properties edge retention, toughness, stainless, strength, edge stability. What I think it does well is the "balance" point moves up and up over time with steel design advancements and heat treatment optimization. I think S45VN and Magnacut represent the top end of the balanced category and both pushed it upwards.
@@EngineersPerspective701 In your experience, is S45VN a worthwhile upgrade from s30V from benchmade?
@@nikobuerk346 Can't say for sure because I haven't used it. If I was forced to make a call I would say that it is likely a worthwhile and noticeable upgrade.
It's REALLY going to depend on the heat treatment. I would suggest looking at Spyderco.
Great vid!
Thanks!
Is that a titanium plate cover on the S110V? Where did buy that? Thank you
They replace the original G10 handle scales. Look up Flytanium and you’ll find them
Am sorry you don’t like the s110v because the price or sharpening it?
Because the type of performance that is gained in S110V over say S90V is both small and in areas that are not beneficial in my usage while also being more expensive and difficult to work with.
I got a Spyderco UKPK in s110v, couldn't sharpen it with the ceramic stones on my Lansky for the life of me, had to put a micro bevel on it.
Ceramics definitely aren’t a good match for S110V! They do have the diamond stones for the lansky that would probably work great!
I use cheap diamond paste on a balsa strop, and it keeps the edge of my ukpk absolutely screaming sharp, I've got a slight convex on it, which I put on over a year ago, and the regular stopping is just about all I need. !!
Will the worksharp precision adjust work for it?
What about these steels versus hitachi white and blue steels? Murray carter is such a proponent of the hitachi white steel, I wonder how it compares.
They are very very different to start! There is a lot of personal preference but I’d guess that most would prefer white and blue in kitchen knives over s110v to start!
I actually have a Carter Cutlery Apprentice Original model neck knife in white #1. It’s philosophy is gaining edge retention through high hardness that supports the up front fine edge holding. It performs far superior to S30V, S110V in that regard. Because it only has iron carbides in the matrix though it essentially has no working edge when it dulls in my use. Just goes dead’s flat whereas S110V has about 4/5 of its edge life still to go. Because the steel is so simple and clean it sharpens up really easy and amazing. So it’s ratio of ease of sharpening to up front sharpness is extremely high even when compared to powder steels. Blue being pretty similar because there isn’t enough tungsten carbide to make a noticeable difference in edc tasks.
That “design” is really nice and enjoyable for myself and others seem to be into it too of course! Do I prefer it over all else? No but I have a spot for it in my life and really enjoy it when I go there!
Hope that answers the question!
@@EngineersPerspective701
Thanks a bunch!
S110V would be very bad for drill.. Its mostly used in plastic manufacturing industry (shears etc)
For tooling, like I said in the video
I think UA-cam deleted our conversation!
@@EngineersPerspective701 I know😔 I've got a notice about violating youtube community guidelines🤦♂️ I think because of profanity.. Anyway i wanted you to look for Androshchuk Custom Knives if you want to look for some rex121 , 15v s125v or whatever steel you may order.. Price of his work will blow your mind away.. His name is Gregory and without a doubt he makes some of the most beautiful art work pieces but in addition his heat treatment is awesome.. Check it out if you are interested.. He shows all of his creations on you tube🙏
@@georgeyoung4292 Looked him up, the polish he gets on those steels is amazing.
Too bad, I think there was something of value in that thread for others. Maybe it's for the best though, not my most suave moments were in there!
I can relate to your impressions of s110. Have you got a chance to mess with s90 much, would be curious how you feel the 2 compare.
I will be in the next few months once I get S90V put on my custom mini crooked River. I’m assuming I’ll like S90v more for how it sharpens. But if the heat treat is poopy it may ruin it for me. We’ll see!
@@EngineersPerspective701 gotta look out for those poopies. Will stay tuned for mini crooked river upgrade review.
S90v sharpens easier, holds an edge longer, is more rust resistant and is tougher...
I have over a decade of experience with s90v, but I've been carrying s110v the past 6 months and it's great, but it's basically 90% as good as s90v in every single aspect. I really love how it takes an edge though, despite being a bit harder to sharpen, and needing more work on the finer stones.
The s110v I've been using is from Shirogorov, Maxace and Spyderco. No HRC numbers, but I'm confident the Shiro was lagging behind the Spyderco and Maxace, so much so that I sold it to focus on the other two.
Earlier this year I finally got a good example of s125v, but decided to familiarize myself with s110v before jumping directly from s90v to s125v.
The 10v class is my favorite class of steels, Vanadis 10 specifically, and both s90v and s110v have been suitable alternatives when I've needed a stainless steel. Both are extremely impressive.
@@CNYKnifeNerd hmm, s90v has been more rust resistant in your experience?
@@turing2376
I actually just came back to correct that.
In the Shiro Kami in s110v I did notice better corrosion resistance, but that was just in EDC use. I never did any specific testing on it.
When I did a 1% salt water test the s110v in the Maxace and pm2 definitely showed higher corrosion resistance than s90v. I had sold the Kami before I did the saltwater test. However, in all the s90v and s110v I've actually tested, the rust spots were removed completely with just some RemOil and a light cloth.
S110V is worse than S90V. The way it chips as it wears down is very unique, too.
Definitely prefer S90V
What would be your choice of steel for an EDC Para 3 out of Maxamet, Sv30, Sv45 or Sv110? Cheers
If I could only own 1 then Maxamet for sure. If I already had a high carbide, high hardness steel then S45VN. I really enjoy my S45VN para 3. Takes a great edge and doesn’t have a gummy burr. It’s not going to touch S110V edge retention but it’s way better than most mid range edge retention stainless steels out there
Some who doesn't need to be named chipped my s110v pm2 trying to open a bottle cap with it. I had just gotten the blade and I read online that factory edges can be brittle so maybe that's why the chip was so big.
Factory edges are definitely more brittle than a fresh hand sharpened edge. Usually it takes several sharpenings to get into that fresh steel.
Get a course diamond stone and slowly work that chip out over 3 sharpenings doing it once a week is what I would do. Trying it in one go is time consuming and exhausting for any steel.
@@EngineersPerspective701 is the work sharp precision adjust ok for sharpening. Also I took the knife to a sharpener who fixed it for 7 dollars.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I'm worried that I might have bought the wrong steel choice does s110 stay chippy or will it be fine after a while
@@beepisbopis9613 the precision adjust is a great sharpener and there are tons of videos on how to get great results! It is also a slower sharpener like the KME so keep that in mind.
You know it all depends on your use. I personally wouldn’t worry at all but if you like to pry and twist with your knife often then maybe it wasn’t the right way to go
Open a bottle cap?
With a pm2?
O'boy 😂🤦♂️
Good video but i am distracted by the sniffing breathing and the swollowing.
Honest truth, that’s the production quality we’re working with here lol
Nice!
Thanks!
M390 forms other carbides than Vanadium, though.
Predominantly other carbides than VC
Neat
Thanks
Just bought a spyderco para 2 with s110v and the first cut I made was a little zip tie, so not much force at all, the zip tie cut no problem but the tip of the spine chipped off. That's a near 300 dollar knife in Canada and the fuxxing tip chipped on the first cut. If this is what I can expect from "super steels" I'll never buy anything "higher" grade then s30v again. Never had a benchmade chip sooo if I can get spyderco to warranty the blade I'll be selling it and sticking with anything but spyderco
Dog it’s going to be okay! Find a quality sharpener to get it how you want again or if you’re up for it, learn to do it yourself. A friend put the tip of my Maxamet manix into concrete and after 4min on a course diamond stone all was great again.
Feel free to live your life with benchmade s30V and if you’re satisfied with it then great! But there is A LOT better out there. Magancut and M4 might be a nice spot for you to try beyond S30V.
Otherwise I say go for K390 and never look back!
Where did you buy that knife?
Could be a copy!
@Elite Knowledge it's a legit knife. S110v is just not a good working steel. Want a fancy knife that cuts boxes and stays in your pocket 90% of the time? S110v is the steel for you.
@@TMar129 well said, because if that would be the case? Having it in pocket 90% of the day, That's a waste. But i process food with it every day, on the run, the cutting of stuff is a bonus.
But mostly it's the stainless property I'm after.
K390 and M4 takes either too much maintenance or they are coated which isn't for food prep.
The S110V is just wiped of and running along can continue!
😁
@Elite Knowledge I've gone back to carrying my benchmade bugout S30v almost every day. I still have the pm2, but it took another small chip, 100% my fault, and so it doesn't get carried often. I have enough pocket knives that I can rotate often, but the bugout is my go-to.
Can you please explain to me how good CPM M4 IS.
ua-cam.com/video/1XQdJgxHWYY/v-deo.html
So is s110v good for bushcrafting and heavy use?
It could work with the right geometry and heat treatment I guess but it’s not a logical choice. Lots of other stainless steels that will take a more stabile edge, sharpen to a finer edge easier and cheaper to make blades in.
And here you have a perfect example of an armchair quarterback vs an actual athlete. The real world has spoken, M390 is an all around winner for KNIFE BLADES. If S110v was all you talk it up to be, it would be in everything. But its not. Chips like crazy and you end up sawing, not cutting. Metallurgy is an ART, not a science. You can take hints and make generalizations but exactly how any particular mix works IN PRACTICE is always tested IN PRACTICE before release...for a reason. Want to make a fair test, do it yourself. Get some raw blanks, make some identical blades then HEAT TREAT THEM TO IDENTICAL HARDNESS. If you do that, you'll find you are not just wrong, but FUCKING wrong.
You caught me red handed using and sharpening this example to form my own opinions based on my presences and use case to educate this discussion. Next time I’ll just see what the uneducated market decides to see if something is good or not.
Agree the best way to understand a steel is to process it. Regardless though the end performance is measurable and that’s what matters to the everyday person as you ranted about above.
So no it is not necessary to heat treat my own blades and no M390 is not an all around winner. If you want to hear my thoughts on M390 then check out this video.
ua-cam.com/video/vzF2tv8A7E8/v-deo.html
@@EngineersPerspective701 Nope, I don't need to hear your opinion, it's already quite clear. Nice of you to infer real world characteristics from one example. My hands-on of some 300-400 samples says you're wrong. Not that it would influence my opinion, but seems the majority of the knife community including numerous testers have spoken. M390 is a winner when treated right. Of course, finding "right" is harder(get it) than finding poor examples. You've only got to look to Lionsteel, Ace, or Steel Will to see bad examples.
@Len Zielenski
Are you upset? You seem upset. 🤔
Do you like s110v better than m390?
Depends on heat treatment. I have 20CV and 204P that I’d probably prefer the S110V I tried over them. But my M390 para 3 has nicely done and I’d probably choose it over all them.
Most M390 has a weak heat treat so S110V is a safer option for those ready to sharpen with diamond abrasives
s90v is better in every way unless you need extra stainlessness. imo sc should quit the gimmicks and something actually interesting like say k390 at 65 hrc laminated in 14c28n or lc200n. No more than .4 mm or 15 thou bte. Maybe hire an industrial designer so their knives aren't designed in crayon. then maybe the costs they charge would be justified.
What about s90v?
Watch my video on it below.
ua-cam.com/video/CGgaDZf9GnQ/v-deo.html
There should be more 125v.
Hoback uses it. I’m planning on using it eventually. It’s expensive to grind, heat treat, and process in general.
I’m trying to recall how Triple Bs turned out because that’s probably the max we will see out there. I feel like for myself this isn’t how I like my stainless though. Why not Maxamet or Rex121 at that point?!