Interview with Brady Williams: Life with 5 Wives and 25 Kids | Sam & Melissa React
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Join us as we react to an exclusive interview with Brady Williams, the star of TLC's hit show "My 5 Wives." Brady opens up about his unique life as a polygamist with five wives and 25 children, sharing the joys and challenges of his extraordinary family dynamic. From managing daily routines to navigating relationships, Brady gives us an inside look at what it's like to live a life many of us can't even imagine.
In this interview, Brady also reveals insider information about the behind-the-scenes workings of "My 5 Wives" and offers insights into the AUB polygamous group. Sam and Melissa share their candid reactions and thoughts on Brady's incredible story.
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Chapters:
00:00:00 - From Extreme Fundamentalism to the Opposite
00:08:38 - Transition to Fundamentalist Polygamy
00:17:29 - A Journey of Questioning and Doubt
00:27:20 - The Humbling Aha Moment
00:36:42 - The Williams Wives Bonding
00:45:06 - The Challenges of Polygamy
00:54:15 - The Decision to Leave the Fundamentalist Church
01:03:26 - The Power of Editing in Reality TV
01:12:37 - The Importance of Education and Tolerance
01:21:10 - Like and Subscribe
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I wish TLC would have kept this show for more seasons. I really liked this family, I am always looking online for current info about them. I remember when Kody & wives went to rally where Joe Darger was speaking. If you look thru that crowd, you will see Brady. Anyways, now that he's renounced patriarchy, and he is not speaking for his wives, it would be amazing to see any of his wives interviewed by Sam & Melissa! Equality means he's not the centre anymore. Please interview Rhonda, Noni, or Rosemary. Let's hear from the women!
Interview all 5 or at least ask all 5. I was impressed with these women, and Brady and wanted to see more of the show, learn more about their lives.
I loved this family too. I like watching normal. It's still so interesting ❤
I really liked this family too. Brady seems like such loving, caring husband and father. I would have loved watching more of them.
I’ve never watched this soap opera, nor watched any GUIP shows about. Disgusting.
I liked this family as well!
I wish Brady or one/all of his wives would come on this podcast. That’d be awesome
I love Brady and his wives. They weren't perfect but so much kinder to each other than we saw with the Browns. When My 5 Wives was on they said they had already left the church and didn't believe in the religion or polygamy anymore, but he wasn't going to leave any of his wives so they were staying together. The show came to an end because his 3rd wife, Rosemary, revealed she had been sexually abused by her father. With everything going on with Honey Boo Boo and the Duggars with pedophilia TLC overreacted and canceled the next season of their show.
That's because American TV wants to show the worst of human behavior rather than the best!
Oh wow! I heard it was low ratings.
I think Brady was taught to share, but I think Brady has still not stopped educating himself and trusting his own conscience and heart to come to the understanding of what feels noble and honorable to be a good person. He doesn’t just regurgitate brainwashed material. He is still working to be the best man he can be despite his upbringing or culture.
I've thought this exact sentiment a few times when it comes to people like Sam and Melissa, and all the other people who have started to question the extreme beliefs that they were raised in. The core values that they were raised in, how to stand up for what's right, to never waiver in your beliefs, learning and how to teach others what you have learned.... Not to mention what it looks like to be a hard worker, and to never give up when things get tough.... All those exact qualities that were ingrained in them through their upbringing are the same qualities that helps them now as they speak out against it. They were taught to stand up for what was right no matter what. And that doesn't change inside or outside the church they were raised in.
Amen, amen and amen! When you said, “Do you feel like what Christ has asked us to do is a LOT shorter list than what the church has asked us to do?” That’s the answer to following a religion bs following Christ (or God). God don’t call us to separate ourselves because of an allegiance to sone man-designed RELIGION. He called us to follow Him and HIS lead.
Loved this!!!!
I was sad when this show didn’t continue but I’m actually glad it didn’t. I think maybe it was best for them. Perhaps being so much in the spotlight isn’t really good for a family. I hope he and his family are all doing well.
This was my favorite TLC family ❤
What an amazing, thoughtful and eloquent man. I loved his and the family's show back in the day and although it didn't have the drama I just knew that they were a solid group of folks. I am so glad he is still proactive with his profound ideas and pure love. I wish the williams all the best. Thank you Melissa and Sam for yet more great content.
Wow .. I like him . He is a stand up guy. I believe his wives stuck around because he does do right by them and their children.
Extremism is Extremism , no matter what slant you put to it .
No kidding!!!!
Way to go Sam and Melissa! I have much respect for Brady, and I think he will eventually come on your show!
I hope Brady would consider coming on your show. I also would just like to see the women interviewed. My guess is without the religious component, they wouldn't repeat the choice they made now; but, since it was already made, they are not going to break up the family and leave the man they love.
This was a great episode! I hope you can get him on some time.
What an awesome interview. Good to see a more positive spin on the lifestyle that wasn't a trainwreck. Thank you for sharing Sam & Melissa!
I thought the comment about having to live polygamy or you would lose your first wife was interesting. I’ve never heard that before. I was glad to hear him say that his wives were raised to say yes. I’m glad he realizes the level of conditioning they were under and how much harder things were for them. 100% agree with him about religious fundamentalism.
What a great episode!! I am not raised religious and I was fascinated with both shows (sister wives & 5 wives) and I love the perspective Sam & Melissa added to this interview. I have often wondered why religious people automatically presume that I am not a good person when all I do is live according to the best part of my good intentions. Of course I falter sometimes as any human does, but when I know better I do better. I respect everyone so why don't they respect me- this episode gave me a lot of insights and answers ♥
Great interview! Great coverage! Thanks for sharing 🤗
This was a really interesting discussion. Thank you!
This was a very thoughtful conversation! Thank you.
Excellent podcast…I learned so very much! Thank you
😊
I have always taken Brady with a grain of salt. His love of public speaking makes me uncomfortable; his ego is sizable. But I will always respect him for the way he credits his wives' strength and bravery. When he said "My wives were born and raised to say yes," I GASPED because he understands acutely the way his wives were brainwashed, and that they went through an agonizing and exhausting effort to change their core beliefs. I have to respect a man who not only understands but appreciates their struggles.
You're not wrong. I respect Brady, but I think any man who accumulates five wives has a massive ego lol even if he "fell madly in love" with all of them.
WOW! I really like Brady - I wish they showed him speaking more deeply about his beliefs like this on the show. Great discussion!
Born and raised to say yes. Such a huge revelation.
Holy cow! You guys got the interview 🎉 I followed their FB for a while but then it went silent with no more updates.
ETA: I got prematurely excited. I just saw the thumbnail 🤦🏽♀️
Same! 🙈 I was amazed at the quick turn-around. 😅
Thank you for sharing. I love his thoughts ❤
This was a great episode. Absolutely brilliant
I wish tlc would have kept this show on longer to watch his change out of the aub
It is so awesome that all his kids are such functional well educated individuals, they were afforded the opportunity to mix with society normally. Also interview the wives and these grown kids. I have always wondered what happened with the breast cancer that one wife (Rhonda) had? I can see why TLC dropped them - because they didn't subscribe to the religion
This was a super interesting video. Thanks!
Letting go of the patriarchal authority and giving all wives a vote might have saved the Brown family, or at least prevented the money grab that was the move to Flagstaff!
Especially as Kody was not leadership material. He made very poor financial decisions. He moved the family around a lot & this was hard on all the kids. The kids had to leave schools & friends. Kody did not care if this disrupted the kids lives. He only cared re Robyn & himself. Sad
Awesome video, thank you! I learned a lot ❤
Brady is a bit rare even for the AUB. He did become a bishop and seventy on the younger side. But he was a golden boy, like he said. Checking all the boxes and got a bunch of wives pretty young even by AUB standards.
Love listening to you on a Saturday morning ❤
Thank you 😊
Sam, your mic has been a little too hot on the last couple of videos. Love your insight and your approach, guys.
OMG, that is so amazing! Good for Brady and his Family, living delusion free.
Thank you for sharing this
Made me so humble
Doing God is to be good
I loved their show. Wished so much for new seasons.
It was so refreshing to have such a wholesome interview. (Not that yours aren’t but I hope you know what I mean.) My natural tendency is to outright renounce and reject my upbringing for the abusive and cultish horror show it was. Sam’s ongoing speaking of his childhood and this interview also help create space within me to acknowledge the moments of neutrality in my home, the babysitter who loved and nurtured me, and the occasional of kindness from older ladies in the church. It used to be critical for me to believe there was nothing but abuse and evil there because that helped keep me from getting sucked back in to the horror so I could build a life in my own from nothing. Having strangers on the internet model acknowledging good in the midst of dangerous systems that are abusive for so many helps me acknowledge the good in myself that was there the whole time. Often it wasn’t safe to act on it but there many times I was despite being in survival mode. That helps me see my proud heritage in myself and that brings with it healing where I hadn’t recognized wounding.
Thank you for the work you do.
I love your videos, you have really interesting subjects and you both add so much value of your own!
Thank you! 😊
Great job guys!
Thank you! 😊
Very interesting interview.
YAY YOU GOT THE INTERVIEW!! You guys rock!! Love you both, Sam and Melissa sooooo much!!
ETA: you found an interview!! lol but I’m sure you’ll get a chance to interview him soon!!!
Thank you! ❤️
Just FYI the Brown's would say Meri was in "mergers and acquisitions" and Meri would be the "bait" to lure other wives and go find Kody a wife - that's how they got Robyn. So their philosophy is different than Brady, Brady said he would never allow that.
Brady and his family seem like they are a great and inspiring group of people
I would definitely watch that interview and you guys would be the best to do that interview
I’ve heard His 3rd wife was the leader of the AUB’s leader at the time he was in the AUB.
Let’s go Brady!!! I’m so interested in what’s happening with your family!!!
😊I liked the show My Five Wives. They appeared to have respectful relationships. And I don't even believe in polygamy. It was an interesting way of learning about different lifestyles.
Whereas Sister Wives, Kody and his wives seemed a hot, uncomfortable mess ! Even if they were a traditional monogamous relationships they would still be messy, crazy, abusive. But it stays around due to the drama.
I think Brady and his wives showed real life and not made up drama. So, in my opinion that is the reason the show was canceled.
Yeah, TLC sure goes for sensationalism doesn’t it?? Same as 90 day fiancé lol
Big Love is actually based on The Darger family who reside in Herriman Utah and are indeed polygamist. I dont know how much pull yhey had in the making of the show but it is supposed to be based on that family. He ran for Mayor in, I believe it was 2017 or maybe it was before. They also wrote a book, Love Times Three
it was actually based on his parents polygamist relationship. He mentions it in his and his wife’s book. The storyline about the first wife getting nominated for mother of the year came directly from Joe Darger’s mother’s life.
Hey, I've been wanting to watch this interview, but couldn't really be asked so now I'm watching it with you guys haha. Wild that they turned down a Big Love reaction show. I absolutely would have watched it. I think if you decide to give Big Love another shot you might like it. They actually did have a polygamy consultant, Caroline Jessop. Maybe others too, but I know she helped with the show because she talked about it in her book. The compound Bill comes from is based on the FLDS. There's a take over that's kind of similar to Warren and Rulon Jeffs. There's another polygamous group in the series called the Greens and they live in Mexico. You can tell they took inspiration for those characters from the LaBarons. I won't spoil all of it, but just to give you an idea.
Thank you so much for this insight!
I have no problem with ethical polyamory but anytime someone is being subsumed to the other, it’s not good no matter how many people are in the relationship.
Exactly. We have free will & forcing women to the will of a man is awful. It is 2024! Equality for women is not a part of polygamy.
There’s nothing ethical about polygamy.
Agreed @@paulan7218
Gosh I loved this show.
There are many ppl I've heard say that the brown family ( sister wives ) was the exception to the rule in polygamy but to be honset I don't see that , i see my 5 wives family as the exception! In sisterwives there kids did benefit from moving out of Utah and in a more welcoming environment that they no longer had to hide there family and was able to experience real life in the real world , witch is an exception but with the Willams there kids don't need that , they already have that through there parents . Brady trys very hard to have special realsinships with each of his wives and stays to deal with the hard stuff that maybe he is rubbing his head like oh man what did I just get into, but he dose not run away or pull the keep sweet and shut up card that kody pulls ! The difference of the 2 family's is the man , the leader of the family and how he built/ lead his family !
You need some more episodes of Big Love. The pilot different from the rest of it.
I am blown away that you two would not have watched Big Love. It really kicked off the contemporary interest in Polygamy - and then FLDS etc. I would love to hear your responses to BL.
I am so so so impressed by the feminist values of this man!! So many hot takes.
Big Love is loosely based on the AUB. While there are dramatic elements to the show a lot of the subjects broached are real. The lost boys...the prophet... Jealousy among the wives. I love that show.
The lost boys is sooo sad - what those young boys are faced with is so daunting.
The show got me interested in the concept of religious polygamy. It is important that religious beliefs are what makes polygamy important to the men & women who follow & believe in the faith.
Read the book: Under The Banner of Heaven if you want to learn the origins of polygamy as created by Joseph Smith.
@@jewelgazerthe boys within the polygamy compounds are used as forced labor. Some are kicked out as teens so there are more females available to marry older men & make more babies. The boys are kicked out of the compounds away fr family & friends. They are forcible separated fr their Mothers. They are purposely orphaned. It is evil to do this because the compounds want to save young women for men higher up in the leadership.
@@g.flesch9731Polygamy can be practiced without religion. Also polyamory is practiced by many more people than you realize and done without religion
The Lost Boys are from the FLDS not from the AUB
I am binge watching “Big Love “- it’s not supposed to look like real polygamy. It’s ridiculous, funny, and pure entertainment.
Big Love does show some of what compound polygamy is like & how religious polygamy works outside the confines of living on a polygamy compound. In Big Love, two polygamist husband's run a profitable hardware Home Depot store. Some of the wives work jobs. One wife runs a profitable MLM.
The two families feature are deeply religious. They even show some Temple rituals. The Big Love people even open family casino. The character & kids work hard. No laziness as seen by Kody. Kody never is shown working any kind of job that brings in real money. It is the Brown wives who deal with the kids & have side jobs. In Utah, Janelle had a good paying job & she managed the family finances until princess I have demands Robyn showed up. She brought $30,000 shopping debt & 3 minor kids to Kody's marriage with her. Her Sister Wives Closet was financial no go.
Robyn has 3 adult kids who do not work. The oldest son has a college degree! Why can't those kids have some outside the home job?
I recently rewatched Big Love, and I still love it. It was meant to be entertainment, not super-realistic, but I believe there were LDS and polygamous sect consultants. I think of it more as an impressionistic soap opera.
I completely forgot about this show!!! Thank you!
I couldn’t get into it because it wasn’t accurate! 😂
I love Big Love! It’s what hooked me into looking into what Mormonism is all about. It was so long ago and I’m still interested 😂 Obviously it’s fictional entertainment. But it shows the difference between mainstream LDS and a fictional FLDS. It does go over the top in the drama as TV does in some areas.
I am so glad you guys reacted to this! I found it absolutely fascinating. Particularly the story about Justin. I, too, kinda pride myself on being a "phenomenally good christian" despite being an atheist. LOL I don't break any commandments or anything! I'm a good person because I want to be, not because there is gold at the end of the rainbow. Also, I TOTALLY agree that when I was fundie I was *so fundie* but now that I'm an atheist, I'm a bit of a fundie atheist. It's hard to lose that fervor. It's part of who I am.
I liked this show too. All of them likable Vs sister wives where Kody, Robin and Mary are SKEEEEVY-
A “checklist” takes away being good for the sake of being good. It takes away being a genuinely good person. A checklist makes you good for the sake of doing what someone else tells you to do for the sake of getting into heaven, and you’re doing the checklist for the selfish reason of getting into heaven, not for the selfless reason of loving others with no conditions or to help others with no expectations
Like living under the law
He is the complete opposite of Kody Brown.
You should have posted the link to the video so people have the option to watch it.
Another thing to notice in difference to sisterwives / my 5 wives was that interactions in sisterwives was like little splashes or spots of actual flim rolling and mostly narrative couch time to explain that moment were in my 5 wives it was mostly flim rolling explaining the scene the moments and splashes of narrative giving more personal information perspective
It is my understanding that the show did not return because of his wife , Rosemary, allegations of abuse regarding her Father. I don’t know if it was the family’s decision or TLC’s.
That is so sad. Sucks that it ruined the show because of someone’s past behavior not a part of the show. They could use that money for all those babies.
Oh interesting! Thank you for sharing this.
The allegations had nothing to do with the show being canceled. The show was canceled because the Williams family didn’t bring the drama like the brown family does. Brady Williams has actually stated that for a fact.
@@paulan7218 I said it was my understanding..not speaking gospel here. Just talking to folks about what I read on the Internet.
Very good episode. I'm friends with Rosemary on FB ... I'll send her this video and see if they contact you for an interview. How can she contact you?
Brady is awesome! The story of the tattoo guy... Man that really made me think. I left the mainstream Mormon church over 20 years ago. The story of me leaving is very interesting and inspiring. It is true that when you leave you continue to ring the truths to others of why you left and the truth about the Mormon church and it's real history. I do that daily.
That would be amazing! The best way to contact us is by email at growingupinpolygamy@gmail.com
Thank you!
Great to hear your perspective. I listened on Apple podcasts but wanted to comment here. Lindsay Hansen Park interviewed Brady on a Year in Polygamy if you are interested. The similarities between Islam and the LDS are very interesting. Polygamy is widespread in some Islamic groups. There are even laws in some countries like India that only apply to Muslims that permit polygamy. Mohamed married a little girl as polygamous wife. When we see these little girls being sold by their families in Afghanistan as brides they can point to their first profit. Not unlike Warren Jef's pointing to Joseph Smiths teenage wives.
Lindsay’s interview of Brady is really really good. Even better than this interview. It has some of the same stories but dives deeper.
Your opening spoke to me. Go into the world and spread the gospel, it's your job to save souls for Christ. Well when I find out it's all made up to keep us in our places, better believe that's what I'm spreading now. Speakers of truth will always speak THEIR truth!
“Cruise control into heaven!” 😂 What a phrase.
I love Brady ❤
I sent a message to Rosemary with a link to this video. Send me a way to contact y'all. I'll message it to her. 😊
growingupinpolygamy@gmail.com
This is our email and the best way to contact us. Thank you 😊
When was this interview done what year
They said 2018 at the very end of the video ;)
Can you guys do a interview with the dargers
I’m so glad I’m related to them
Big Love takes a season to get going. They hired Carolyn Jessop to sew up the dresses, so it's not like they had no insider information.
I really think that tlc really wanted them to Amp up drama , give content and embellsh storylines and they were not willing to do that and so it was dropped
Christine had said that their church didn’t have the whole pre arranged marriage so that was a lousy excuse for Kody to not marry for love
Your audio the last 2 videos has been crap! Love you guys!!
We apologize for the bad audio and have fixed it for future videos.
Brady is at least likeable unlike Kody
He is the exact same as Cody except for the short hair he is a POS
kody has said that meri was 'bait'.
Like the controling mormon church ? Asking for a friend
I would really love to say to this diverse and very educated group. Please don’t forget that God and Jesus Christs plan for us is so important. However we choose to follow, don’t take it for granted. Hope everyone is very well. Thank you! 🤘
Brady seems kind and that Justin story was great, but still...is our standard so low that it is amazing that some guy was being nice to an unattractive older woman? That's sad!
Does he still have 5 wives ?
I remember the wife paulie not being very nice and thought she was better than the others. In fact on 1 episode, one of the wives was complaining about paulie trying to take time from her when brady was with her. I see they were trying real hard but you can't watch that show and not see the problems in it especially, as i stated, with Paulies lack of respect for the other wives. She definitely thought her and her children were 1st in line. Its the same with all these people, theres always a favourite wife
Big Love started out trying to make alternate families acceptable, through an alternative family structure of faith that is completely American in origin. Then prop 8 happened in California and instead of polygamy clans being the threat and the bad guys they decided to make the threat from their recently unemployed childless Mormon neighbor. It did get aired during the Warren Jeffs thing and included it. This show is what drives me nuts about Kody Brown deciding where to insert every day and night. That he thinks getting to a home at 5-7PM and then leaving first thing the next morning is giving a woman her fair night. It’s not.
I love Big Love. I've obviously never been FLDS or a polygamist, but I never got the impression that the main family was supposed to represent or look like FLDS/Fundamental Polygamy. Bill had left that religion for years for mainstream Mormonism, married and lived monogamy for like 15+ years until he reaquainted with what would be his second wife (who happened to be the daughter of the leader of the compound he was raised on) and had a "revelation". However they wished to do things in a more "modern" sense, rather than the Fundamental traditional way he had been raised, more a merging of the two ways he had lived his life and that is pretty much the crux of the show. Trying to balance both beliefs and worldviews, the complicated dynamics it created with both their FLDS and Mainstream Mormon extended families and friends etc, and really the extremely hypocritical and secretive nature of Bill. A man who blindly thinks of himself as "The Good Guy Polygamist", not like those monsters on the compound he loathes, all while making a lot of choices one could fairly compare.
It kinda dumps you in the middle of chaos in the beginning, but it really picks up.
Bill took his second wife when his legal wife became very ill & was nursed to health by a woman provided by the compound he had been kicked out of. After his 1st wife recovered, he had a revelation that he take that woman fr the compound as a 2nd wife. But Bill never went back to live on the compound. He later took a 3rd wife. The wives would meet once a week to divide up chores or childcare. But the legal wife had power to decide certain things as she was wife#1. The wives more or less cooperated w each other & yes, there was jealousy for Bill's (the husband) affections & attentions. The kids were well portrayed & did disagree with polygamy rules.
@@g.flesch9731 I realize that, but I was trying to give a general overview without giving away too much/spoilers.
@@krissywizzle how is discussing the Big Love show re give away much?
Kody is a public figure & tons of info is on social media sites each day. Are we to pretend he is an unknown person? I mean really. If after 18 seasons the doc needs to get thru 18 seasons in what amount of time. A lot of sister wives viewers have been hanging on 18 seasons & season 19 is starting soon. The doc has to hurry thru & get caught up.
@g.flesch9731 I don't know why you decided to bring up Sister Wives, but that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was obviously referring to spoilers for Big Love... They were saying they'd only seen a couple episodes, I was just trying to give them a general feel for the plot. Nothing to do with Sister Wives?
Bill‘s family extended family was most definitely modeled after the FLDS. they even had the UEP but they called it the UEB
Justin. Wow. And the Bear. This was EPIC.
Thanks Brady❤
(in the far or not so far future maybe known as one of the Justin's apostols which would 've been so cool cause tatoos and all. I hear Jesus was nice but he had no effin tattoos. In Justin we trust ;)))
How do I get married to two wives? Isn't that illegal anyway?
I often wonder what a gay person should do If they convert and become a believer. Should they divorce and break up their family? Stay together and be celibate? I feel that's what he had to decide after having a religious awakening.
I believe you would find many parallels to Sam's upbringing (and Melissa's) inside the Big Love series. Please stick with it and perhaps you would see the origin of what brought polygamy to the national conversation.
Why the music? So distracting. 😕
I find it really interesting that in a religion where a high quota of women are needed that both Kody and Brady who are converts get so many wives. Does that speak to the way the AUB let women choose their husbands? Or are the AUB-born men awful? What’s going on there?
He looks like Tim Ballard😬
Super interesting comparison to Islam. Not positive but I think polygamy is an Islamic practice as well…
I love and hate big love. It clearly is made for TV. But some of those things are really what happens in polygamy. Maybe not with that family but the side people in there life... Also one of his wives was related to one of the higher ups so maybe he got the position that way
If he was a true feminist he would free his wife's to also have boyfriends. They are so often lonely. It is just not fair.
Fansating interview!
What I am about to say is blunt, and some may disagree, but Brady states he
knows being a polygamist is illegal, yet he chooses to subject the 5 wives and 25 children into a lifestyle where there has to be a fear of being "found out." Seems he fell in love with the first wife and fell in lust with the other four wives.
Nah. definitely in love with Paulie & married again out of responsibility and does his best to love them all too. I’m completely against polygamy, but Brady is amazing.
@angelapate328 We'll have to disagree. Brady has found a way to remain faithful to this first wife and at the same time basically have affairs with 4 other women by picking the polygamy element of the FLDS church.
@@schs1977 that’s the beauty of this world, that we can disagree & still be kind. 💙🌎
Hey Brady ! Don't do a show for tlc ! It will ruinen your happy life you and your wives have ❤❤😊
I don't agree with everything he believes however he seems to be the polar opposite of Kody Brown and I think I would love to see Brady and Kody on the same show being asked the same questions . And maybe Kody says something rude about Brady's family and then Brady maybe puts a boot in Kody's butt (I don't condone violence so I'm speaking figuratively) I don't have to agree with your religion or lifestyle and still point out who seems to be a good person and who is definitely NOT(Kody Brown)