RAM PUMP VALVE COMPARISON - why the swing check valve is so useless
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2019
- To get the parts shopping list (PDFs for both the pump and valve) please buy me a coffee here: www.buymeacoffee.com/bubiq
Today we will compare 3 kinds of ram pump waste valves:
1) 1'' Swing check valve
2) 5/4 Slide check valve
3) 2'' Homemade waste valve
Let's see which one is the best, which one gives the most water with highest pressure!
For getting the parts shopping list for my custom pump (PDFs for both the pump and valve) please buy me a coffee here: www.buymeacoffee.com/bubiq
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Music: Piano improvisation
Watch my other videos about rampumps! - Навчання та стиль
Fun test. Thank you for sharing. I have personally pumped up a hill that was 22 meters high with a brass swing valve. I have worked with a fellow in Hawaii who managed to pump up 25 meters. Because the swing valve does not have a way to adjust for weight you will have to adjust the length of drive pipe to slow or speed up the cycles. As for durability I agree. around 30 million cycles and the valve will start to wear or even stop. NOW the stainless steel swing valve in my current test pump has been pumping for 5 months and shows no signs of wear. Those slide valves can very handy but also harder to find. I have a feeling that is why so many people use the swing valve over other styles.
Hello! I really like your videos!
With the swing check valve you can pump water to any height, of course. It depends on the primary water drop/fall distance. From various tests I can see that the maximum pumping ratio of pumps with swing check valves is around 1/6. With weighted (or bigger) check valves one can get much better ratio (up to 1/16). But I totally understand that the swingie-swongie check valve is the easiest valve to find and it is easy to fit.
@@BohumirStehlik I can totally see that the custom valves work the best. They closely mimic the valves used in commercial and traditional pumps. But imagine making a few hundred of them. It would be overwhelming. :) your video quality is great by the way. You put more effort in quality than my videos.
Good to see two of my favorite "ram pump teacher" here in youtube talks about whats best. Im starting to build one for my farm. Thanks to you guys
@@pingwojak6848 UA-cam is so amazing! Ram pump tests from across the globe.
Again, I make a customized waste valve, I used a 2" pipe about 3.5 inch lenght with thread at both end, 2 blind cap, make a hole and thread with 1"diameter. 10 mm stud bolts, screws, washers and hard rubber 1 inch thick as plunger (I use tyre truck). With this set up very easy to maintain and less expenses because the hard rubber will last longer and very easy to replace, just open the upper portion of the waste valve. I tried and working good.
Gerat!!!
This Video Made my day!
Today i did a try with my rampump.
1,8bar is my max, same valve like the First in the Video.
Im gonna rebuild the one you build.
Thanks alot.
Hi from Germany,
The Pump im gonna install next week in France..........
Merci
Great video and demonstration of the types of valves. I am currently using a modified slide check (foot valve), with a threaded rod coming out the top and the ability to add weights to it. It is good but pretty loud. Your valve looks a lot smoother in operation and quieter. Can you show how you made it please? I would like to try one of these! Cheers from New Zealand!
Again such a marvel. Really enjoyed this video. Thankyou for the upload!!!!!
I am going to try to build this valve. I have seen others who have built a similar valve using a foot valve upside down.
You are right, if you want to lift to a higher elevation must fabricate a waste valve. Before I'm using double waste valve to my ram pump and lately decided to use only one by putting an additional weight to reduce the cycle because it is too fast. The problem is my bladder pressure tank which is tested to 15 bar nearly explode(deform) and it will explode if I did not open the delivery valve immediately. Approximately 7 meter vertical head.
I'm For Sure Going To Make One Of Yours, I Haven't Done Anything Yet
Because I Wanted To Only Spend Our Money Once & For The Best Result Cause Were Retired, & Why Make A Bunch of Stuff That Dosen't Work As Good So I've Watched Several UTube channels & I Think Yours Is The Best All The Way Around, Thank You So Much , But it Would Be Nice if You Made A List Of Just What To Get & The Sizes If You Have Time to 😉👍👍👍👍👍
Good post.. Thanks
Fantastic!! So is the bladder tank better than the fire extinguisher? What about a bladder tank with no bladder?
Nice stella octangula in the background!
You are very thoughtful! Wish ya was a neighbor.
did you know, you can adjust the speed of the swing check valve, by adding a pipe nipple on it's exhaust. The nipple adds a little weighted back pressure to the swing valve. Different length nipples, different weight.
Interesting. Will this increase the water delivery height?
this should decrease the head pressure acting on the valve, haven't tried this but I think it would decrease efficiency, as you are decreasing the pressure gradient and therefore the velocity. (I was considering putting my pump in a mini pond feeding the pond with the waste water. never tested it but came to the conclusion that it would not work)
Great video and nice and consistent test! Can you also measure the ratio of used vs. pumped water? That would give an indication of the efficiency of the pump, if put in relation to the ratio of head height vs. lift height. I have the feeling that the results might not be that different then. Also, the swing check valve might have advantages in a low-flow regime (e.g. smaller drive pipes).
we eww wàààaw
In decided to stay with the brass because I could get it local.
Looking at your cycles of the home made valve at around 5:30 water appears to be at peak flow for a reasonable time before the valve closes, is there any benefit to getting the valve to close sooner after peak flow is reached (more cycles per minute, more flow) or will this cause the waste valve to "jam" open sometimes? (because some cycles look very close to peak flow in your footage, others much longer)
Wishing you success
I'm going to make one for myself. This is the question that has been on my mind. With your system, announce the length and diameter of the inlet and outlet pipes
I hope you answer me as soon as possible
All of the answers in my other videos. Inlet 32mm inner diameter, 50m long, 2,8m fall. Outlet 1/2 inch, 150m long, 16-17m high.
I understand waste and inefficiency as an issue, but which one will last longer?
Awesome. Regarding the holes you drilled in the brass fitting. Did you thread the holes with a tap set with threads that match the rod or did you drill them all the way through? Also what is the structure behind you? Thanks.
Hello, I made threads that match the screws.
The structure is my father's energy-something... I don't know really. :-)
@ Bohumir thank you for excellent videos. It seems pump and pipe size relationships are critical. I am intending to make one of your DIY valves. Is the dimension of the casing for the T more important or the diameter of the exit hole which is narrower. ie if the drive pipe input was 50mm could the Galvanised T be a 2 1/2" model with a hole diameter on the exit of the valve at 1 1/2" or 1 1/3".
The size of the exit hole should be the same as the intake pipe size... Thanks for your comment.
Bohumir I like the study you made with your check valves. Can I ask you what kind of material you used for the time of rubber or something else you used for the seal of the check valve you fabricated please?
It is hard thick leather.
Hello thank you for this really intersting video.
Can you kindelly tell me max how many Meters can pump the water hight if the water pressrure will be enough, and make the begger size for example up to 200 M. 300M as you mentioned in the video pne Bar pressure cna pump up to 10Merters if for exapmle there is 30 Bars pressure can it pump up to 300 Meters hight or morethen it is very iiportant the hight not the lenght if it is possibe kinelly explain the first the hight capablity then the lenght?
I can see the difference in the output at the hose when you fill the bottle. But the last one sure doesn't look like 65 psi out that hose end; stream seems weak. Swing valves have their place (low cost, easy to find) if you don't need to pump water 45M (>130 ft). You also have to consider the LPM/GPM entering the drive pipe. A 1.5" needs 8 GPM (32+ LPM) to operate. Going to 2" will require considerably more water flow into the drive pipe to operate.
Of course the stream is weak. The maximum pressure is there when you close the delivery pipe... Otherwise the pressure is just slightly above the delivery level.
what I like about it is the actual noise reduction, most ram pumps are very noisy
Okay, question:
What is the "efficiency" of each one, I guess one might say? IE, how much water is "wasted" vs. how much is "pumped"?
I don't think that was mentioned. Does the higher flow rate of the later two valves come at lower efficiency? IE, are you "letting out" more water, in order to get to that higher flow rate? If so, what is the "waste" percentage of each? Like is one 50% waste, vs 70% waste vs. 90% waste? Or are they all of a similar volume / "percentage" of "waste" water that's not getting pumped?
I'd love to see those number too. 3x higher pressure will also have 3x more "waste". How much pressure and waste is optimal would primarily be a function of particular location. You may need just say 5m lift but don't have much water to work with. In that case swing check valve seems like better option. His valve is great though if you have enough water or need to pump higher than swing check can do.
I may be missing something but here goes. The increase in diameter of the valve requires an equal diameter drive pipe does it not ?
Great video love the music and this is a genuine question as i am about to do my first test run this weekend with a 3/4" drive to a garden hose , i need to pump up 100' thanks
Hello. Good question, thank you. First I was thinking that the waste valve needs to be the same size. Basically the drive pipe diameter is the main limiter of the water flow. You could have 6/4'' pump but with 3/4 drive pipe you get the water flow thru the pump same as with a 3/4 pump. The pump is just prolonged drive pipe. But! You can put on your 3/4'' drive pipe 3/4'' pump with 1'', 5/4''or 6/4'' swing/slide check valve (depends on your drop and intake pipe). Like this you could get more water pumped to the delivery pipe because of the higher pressure. The bigger valve is more resistant to the water flow and stays open longer - until the water has enough speed to close it. The best and most universal solution is to use the custom waste valve and make a setup exactly for your location.
Good luck!
@@BohumirStehlik thank you will keep you posted 👍
@@maximoincognito4881 thanks for the info. Will keep all posted on my setup. 2nd try tomorrow. 😀
@@maximoincognito4881 thanks, part of my problem is i am stuck with what is available, but i will keep eyes open for stainless 👍
where can I find a slide check valve . I have looked on the net but there is nothing are you sure that's the correct name of it .
Try foot valve
How did you compare with 3 different size valves? This doesn't make sense.
Exactly.
1000cc Honda Motor is more powerful than a 1500cc and so the 2000cc.
What's your haplogroup?? R1a??
Thanks for the info,. Currently using a 3/4 swing check valve pumping uphill with elevation increase of approx 85 ft thru 950 ft of 1/2 in pex pipe with an output of approx 220 gallons a day. Interested in trying the slide valve can you provide info on where to purchase or the wording to use for the search on eBay or Amazon
Thanks
Tim, Any luck with ordering a different waste valve?
Hi, So if I understand correctly, the reason the swing valve is less effective is that the lack of weight prevents the building of higher pressures. if this is the case could you add weight to the swing valve gate ? maybe epoxy a few washers to the valve gate?
No answer probably because your correct.
Has anyone tried this and what was the result please?
Actually the swing valve made of stainless steel is also good, if you have 1" drive pipe youcan use 1 1/2 to 2" swing check valve, just positioned the waste balve to 90 or 270 degrees and tilt down easy easy until reaching the desired cycle.
Can I ask about the expansion tank? It looks like you are using a central heating expansion tank in this video. These are readily available - although not cheap - but in various sizes. What size do you use with the 2" check valve?
Hello, for 5/4'' pump I use 5l-8l tank. Here in the Czech republic it cost something like 25usd (the cheapest).
@@BohumirStehlik Excellent - they are that sort of price in the UK on Ebay. Many thanks for your help, much appreciated.
There are different types of valves for different types or reasons, the swing valve is perfect for gravity feed water supply not pump the spring valve is perfect for pump use sir
that is good when you can waste all the water you like. In my case I have to optimize the effecency because I don't have river so the wast valve has to go orizzontal and be more idrodinamic and working with spring. As that the flow of water can gain much more speed and ideally could reach 6/7 atm with very minimun wast of water.
godd project anyway👍
I think you should use another kind of pump. There's a pump that doesn't need so much water. Or, if you have too little water, scale down the pump to 3/4" or 1/2".
Hi. Couple of questions if you can. Is your home made valve self starting. ? And do you know the efficiency of your home made valve ( waste water/pumped water)
If you can I'd be very appreciative
Rob
Hello, no, it is not self starting as any ram pump. You need to prime it.
No idea about how efficient it is. I just know the input/output height ratio (cca 1/15). The weight on the valve is higher so the input/output water ratio will be worse.
@@BohumirStehlik thanks for the reply. Love the music that goes with your videos.
Yeah but how can we be sure it doesn't work better because you played soothing music for it? (I'm a professional trouble shooter and I often catch the things others miss all together)
ha ha that was a good one !
Hello, how many liters is the expansion tank?
5-10?
Where do I get a slide check valve like that??
Plumber's shop.
He build it himself with parts from a plumbing or hardware store. You could also modify a foot valve, just look around and there are other videos . good luck.
With minimum, I can get maximum!
(More than I need) 👐🐫
Hi, can you imitate papa-pump technology, which he said is much more efficient than ram pump.
Hello, you wouldnt be interested in selling a 1" waste valve to me would you? Im not as good at diy as you are.
I agree your swing valve is cycling too quickly, but that is because it is undersized. Repeat the test with 1.25” swing valve and I bet your results will be more comparable to the other mfg valve but not as good as yours.
Hello! Thanks. That's why I also attached the 5/4'' slide check valve. Definitelly better. I would say I need 2'' check valve for optimal results. But the main problem is that those valves are not adjustable. One cannot change the location for the pump.
1" vs 1+" vs 2"?
No. There's only 2" T. The rest is smaller.
great video! what is your drive head? and how long is the drive pipe?
i built a 1 inch ram pump but currently i´m experiencing trouble since i need to ahichieve 50 psi with 3 meters fall. but currently im only getting around 25 psi. nowadays im putting a section in steel wondering if that could help.
Link: drive.google.com/open?id=1nN6jcwLE8PS17skDhsU-_v5ATDhJXMzD
What do you think i can do?
My drive pipe is 50 meters long with 2,8m fall. Drive head? What do you mean? It is 1'' hydram.
I can't see the picture - permission. Check for bubbles in the drive pipe. Look whether you air tank isn' t full of water. If yes, empty it.
Ok. I looked at the video. Looks like full pressure tank... Hard to say otherwise..
@@BohumirStehlik yeah, with drive head i was refering to your fall height
@@BohumirStehlik when you say full pressure tank you mean full of water and no air?
@@masterjosev14 Exactly...
MM.
Great video - how can we find out more about the slide check valve and your new design for a check valve? Hope you don't mind, I linked to this video from the Ram Pump discussion in the Water Wheel Pumps public Facebook group:
facebook.com/groups/240458583255303/permalink/515063069128185/
Nothing new, can find them online.
You can't find the custom valve online.. Lol.
@@BohumirStehlik You did not test your "custom" value. It probably did not do well as others types. LOL LOL
@michael7dee exactly dude...kudos to the author..Snappy Salute!..
Interesting comparison, thanks. Music annoying and unnecessary tho...