MOIRE in the Panasonic S5 (ii, iix) vs S1h. Why this might affect your choice in cameras.
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Can the dreaded and annoying moire be controlled when shooting video? Do you need a low pass filter for filmmaking? Which camera is right for the job?
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The S1H has a much more stable image than the S5, whenever I use my S5 I notice moire compared to my S1H. I actually notice it on many other cameras without OLPFs from other brands as well to different degrees from time to time - It'll be a real shame if Panasonic ditch the OLPF for the next generation flagship camera IMO they're essential for video / film work, especially if you ever film on an LED virtual production wall, which are becoming more available now for lower end work. While it's probably better to wait for the S1Hii at this point, according to CineD the first generation of S cameras (S1H, S1, S5mki) also have slightly better dynamic range latitude than the S5ii, so if you did make the change to the S1H you might get a small bump to dynamic range as well.
Thanks so much for this. I haven't gotten one yet, but I am definitely leaning towards the original, for these exact reasons, and also because I don't really use autofocus all that much, it's not really that important to me. I'm looking forward to the s1h being my a cam once I grab one. I'll keep my s5, and I think it'll be the perfect b cam. Thanks so much for coming through, I really appreciate that.
Love the s5iix it is an amazing vid camera man. The photos that come out it are also top notch. Like you said many times before, when it comes to the image quality output it is second to none for the price.
I’ve actually never had my hands on an S5ii or iix, but my camera, which is the original S5, has an incredible image quality. Having said that, I’m thinking of getting an S1H because of moire. It showed up a couple of times while making UA-cam videos, and I just feel like I want to get rid of that. Also, I’m looking for a camera that shoots straight 24fps. So the S1h covers all of that. but overall, I think all Panasonic cameras have great image quality.
I didn’t know that’s what “moire” was. The few times I was on TV I was told to not wear stripes and it was for that very reason and how it winds up looking real psychedelic-like. Thanks for this video.
Yup. That’s the dreaded moire. Annoying. :-)
We've shot a lot with the S1h and have not had any moire issues to date. Can't say the same for the S5II(X) - the moire issues revealed themselves very quickly.
Wow. So good to know. I’ve been using the S5 every day for about a year now, and I’ve only seen the moire that one day. But now I can’t stop seeing it in the back of my mind every day that I use it. I’ll be picking up an S1 each soon for projects that are just for me. Thanks so much for coming through, I greatly appreciate that. :-)
Thanks for making this video. I tried to find information about moire and these cameras. I asked many youtubers but no response. Probably because they didn't use the cameras long enough to even know if it shows up.
I'm considering the S1 but moire was one concern. However, in the UK the S1 can be had for under £800 in lovely condition which is less than $1000. The S1H is quite a bit more expensive but then if you want Vlog on the S1 you have to buy a software upgrade. I'm thinking just to get the S1 as my first Lumix camera because I'll probably do a lot of photography to begin with. Then I go from there and see how it is. I've used a Sony A7SII and never saw moire. That has an AA filter. That camera broke which brings me onto why Sony are not so great. The build quality is poor. That's to be expected with their cheaper cameras. The A6000 range for example but their "pro" A7 series is no better made at hugely higher cost.
I watched your The Centre of Distance movie. I'm going to watch it again because I was tired and fell asleep half way through but did watch the rest. I wish more people would watch things like this and less of the gear reviews and realise that almost all cameras are decent enough these days or even phones but also they will see that the content is what you should be concentrating on. Unfortunately attention spans are terrible so people want things short.
I've seen this same GAS obsession with music gear. Once you get a piece of gear that is really good and quite expensive, you see that cheaper stuff isn't as far away from the top tier as you might think and in many cases better due to some companies trading purely on their past reputation rather than the quality of their current gear. Gibson Guitars? Not worth it at all. There is a company called Heritage at the original Gibson factory in Kalamazoo making guitars that are better.
The reason I'm looking at the S1s is that although they are a it bulky, they have one brilliant thing if you are manually focusing. The EVF is spectacularly good.
Wait for the spectacular levels of hype and biased reviews when the Nikon Z6III comes out. You won' be able to get any kind of balanced view. I wish Nikon could get their act together but with recent cameras, they have fallen into the scenario I mentioned about Gibson guitars. Second hand, the Lumix are way better value.
Another thing that people need to get is that music and sound is crucially important. You have used music in a great way. In fact I would say that is almost more important than video because you can add tremendous emotional interest in this way and forget a few shortfalls with the video.
First of all, thanks so much for watching The Center of Distance. That means a lot to me. The gear is useless to me if we don't make art with it. I guess some folks like to have electronics just to have it, just for fun, but that's an expensive hobby that will probably turn quickly to boredom and then a dust collecting trophy, sitting somewhere in your home taking up space. ;) Moire... as time has passed, and after I got over my initial obsession, it has become a non-issue for me. The first time I saw it, which was what this video was about, I just couldn't un-see it. It was like I was waiting for it to show up. Like I was trying to make it happen. Honestly, I have seen this aliasing show up two or three times over the two years I have used the S5, and I shoot EVERY DAY. Yes, it's a pain in the ass when it shows up, and you can't really fix it, but it rarely shows up, and even when it does, it's a passing moment, hopefully, and it won't ruin a story. It might "ruin" a shot, but most probably, in context, nobody is going to care except the shooter, or maybe people who just pixle peep and don't care about real art. The S1, the S5, they are amazing creative tools, and I think you will be really happy with either one. Robust, tons of capabilities, and if you need the OLPF, the S1h is pretty cheap, relatively, on Ebay from time to time. I saw one sell on Ebay recently for $1300 USD. That's crazy for that camera. Then again, I just found a GH5 for $475 and grabbed it, and it is an INCREDIBLE camera, as long as you don't rely upon autofocus, which for me is a non issue. I don't even use autofocus, and so.. I always say, all of these modern cameras are so good, and yes, Panasonic makes really well built gear, and so I think you will be really happy with the S1, the S5, ANY of the Lumix line of cameras. To me, the best for the price of any company, by far. Thanks so much for watching and for coming here and taking the time to comment, I greatly appreciate that, and I don't take it for granted. And one last though... once I let the moire obsession go in my own head... I was free!! I just shot another full length feature with the S5 that took two years to shoot, and not one shot had moire. Not one. Two years of shooting!! That film is having its world premiere at the Manhattan Film Festival in about a week, June 19th. I also just shot a short film for a sculptor here in New York, and not one moment of moire, and we shot all kinds of human-made things that could have potentially brought out some aliasing. Nothing, so... you're gonna be okay, and if it does show up from time to time, let it go... think of the thousands of people using all the cameras out here without an OLPF making money, working professionally and earning a living. FX3. No OLPF. A7siii. Nope. FX30. Doesn't have it. Nikon Z. Nope. Fuji XH2S, no OLPF. Canon RFC, I don't think it has one. You should be fine. Go grab the camera that resonates with you, commit to it, learn it like it's a part of your own body, and go make art!!! And have fun doing so. And maybe even some money along the way. Ok... I'll stop now. lol. Stay well!!!
@@ryanstark2350 If you rely upon the EVF, that's a huge plus, for sure.
Yes, moiré is an issue can have a devastating effect on shots. I have an S5 and notice every now and again, unfortunately often only in editing(!). I have been thinking a similar way, get an S1H. However, from the research I have done, the OLPF does reduce the possibility of moiré but does not eliminate it. It will clearly be an improvement.
I know a few people who have worked with the S1h for a few years, and none of them have ever seen it pop up, but I’m sure there are no 100% guarantees with pretty much any camera, but with the S5 it’s pretty common. Having said that, I shot an entire feature film for two years solely with the S5, and not one shot had any moire at all. so, you just never know. :-) This issue is not gonna make me sell my S5, it’s the best camera I’ve ever owned, but I’ll probably get a used S1h since I can get one for probably somewhere around $1500, and so it’s totally worth it, and the two cameras compliment one another well, and the fact that I have a much less chance of seeing this pop up with the S1h, all things considered, it’s probably a good investment. Thanks so much for coming through, I really appreciate that.
Its crazy I never experienced it yet but its probably because i never shot with the freewell magnetic VND and mist filter off. But in lots of shows and movies i have been watching has alot of it.
This is such a good point that I haven't really thought much about. I think most people would think that you would never see aliasing in any Hollywood film, or netflix, HBO film, etcetera. And personally, I haven't noticed, but I haven't really looked for it, but if you say that's the case, that's a really interesting argument to not even worry about it. - probably the time to really worry is if you're doing a client project and they are upset, but if you're making a feature film, it probably doesn't even matter. Food for thought, thanks for such a great comment
Good to know. It almost comes down to the value proposition since the S1xxx cameras are so much more expensive and this is your first moire incident in so many filming sessions. Hard to know what to do.
You can get the s1h on the used market for around $2,000 now, which is pretty amazing. I'm thinking about it, it's hard for me to unsee what I saw. :-) and to make it worse, I documented it. LOL
Ou can try the freewell diffusion filters to bet rid of moire
I’ve actually been using a Moment Cinebloom filter and I haven’t seen the Moire since. :-) I also noticed that I never see it with my vintage lenses or my anamorphic lenses. I only have one sharp sigma zoom lens, and that’s the only time it has appeared. Otherwise, I just got to the point where I just let it go. I shot an entire feature film for two years with one camera and two lenses and it did not show up even once, so I’m kind of past this point, I shot this video a long time ago. :-) but I guess if you’re shooting a lot of client work, or commercials, it is something you really have to address. I’m pretty much doing my own narrative or documentary work, so if worse comes to worse, I can always just reshoot. Thanks so much for coming through, I really appreciate it.
The moire on the S5, S5II, and S5IIx is just unacceptable. It’s so avoidable if Panasonic put the OLPF on the camera. I bought the S5IIx, and while I don’t have buyer's remorse, for some of my higher end projects, I wouldn’t trust this camera to be my A-cam. A very capable B-cam, however. It’s a BIG oversight that with a video-specific camera Panasonic would not include this. Panasonic needs an S1H Mark II ASAP with phase detect autofocus and an optical low pass filter. Alternatively, if you’re willing to shell out 600 bucks, and you are willing to void the warranty on your S5 or S5II, Kolari now has an aftermarket low pass filter that can be installed to eliminate moire.
Wow. You can have a low pass filter installed? Actually, I can probably sell my S5 and get an s1h and probably wind up spending the same amount of money. But that's great to know. And I totally agree, although I have never seen this in almost 2 years of working with my s5, but now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it, and I just don't feel completely confident with serious projects now. That's why I made the video, I think companies need to know that this kind of oversight really impacts people who are trying to do real work. If you are a UA-camr only, it's not really that important, but if there are things at stake, if you can lose a job, or if you're working on a feature and have to go back and reshoot meaning getting collaborators back as well, it's going to cost you money, and time, and that's no bueno. I'm definitely going to make some kind of move, I'm just not sure if I'm going to wait and get the s1h Mark ii, or just get a used s1h and save a ton of money. I don't really use autofocus that much, so I'm leaning towards just getting an s1h sooner than later. Thanks so much for the insight, I greatly appreciate that, and thanks for coming through, I don't take that for granted.
@@RockWILK yep, a UA-camr named Hopkins Films, who specializes in weddings where moire can really crop up in veils, patterned suits, etc, loves his S5II, and worked with Kolari to develop an aftermarket low pass filter that just released this week.
So you can get it on your S5II or S5. Only downside is that it will void the warranty installing it, and could have other unintended side effects, like color shift in your footage.
Panasonic isn’t the only manufacturer guilty of this on hybrid cameras, though. The Canon C70, a cinema camera, doesn’t have an OLPF. That made me not buy it, versus a Canon R3, which does have an OLPF and have great aliasing and moire performance (aka it doesn’t happen because of the filter.)
I’m learning just to assume most cameras don’t have these filters, and to investigate before purchasing now. Luckily the S5IIx is a relatively inexpensive camera, I had L glass already invested in, and will wait for an S1H Mark II that hopefully has that filter.
@@MagnumoftheMountains that’s crazy to me. I’ll never buy another camera without that filter. I think I’m gonna grab an S1 H, but I’m also wondering if the Sony A7Siii and the FX3 have that filter? If not, I can’t imagine people aren’t complaining like crazy. I don’t think it’s worth it for me to add it to my S5, but I know I’ll never have another camera without that filter. Thanks so much for the information, I’m grateful to have it.
@@RockWILK for sure! I am a BIG Panasonic fanboy so I love the GH series, the S1H, etc. I fell a little bit for the hype around the S5IIx. The autofocus is awesome, the Open Gate shooting is great, but the lack of an OLPF is a huge bummer and limits the camera's applications. For run and gun documentary, sports, outdoor shooting, and in low light, it's terrific. But the lack of the OLPF, slow readout speeds with rolling shutter, etc, it's not the epic be all end all camera that a lot of UA-camrs think it is.
@@MagnumoftheMountains I actually think the original S5 is a much better deal now than either of the Markii cameras. Other than the auto focus, and I guess the open gate, you can get an S5 for about $1000 less than the other two. I’m really happy with my S5, and I never had any problems with moire for the last couple of years, but now that I’ve seen it, it bothers me. I guess I feel like I’m looking over my shoulder now, which I don’t like. But I still love the camera.
Moire isn't solved by the low pass filter on the S1H - but it is an improvement. Don't buy an S1H thinking moire will always not be a problem. Also, the S1 doesn't have a low pass filter.
Thanks for the insight, I really appreciate that. And I'm definitely sticking with my S5 for now. Hope this finds you well, and have a great transition into the new year, and thanks so much for coming through.
@@RockWILK Hope you have a good new year too! :)
Nice topic.its f#%up Thank You
Thanks so much for the comment and for coming through, I greatly appreciate that. And you have some amazing content at your channel as well. Keep up the Great work!
I saw a video tha shows S5IIX in 6k has much less moire than 4k. If moire is a problem, change for 6k mode.
Thanks for that, but I have the original s5, so I can only do that with an external monitor. It really only happened that one day, so I wouldn't say it's a real problem yet, but it's just in the back of my mind all the time now. Thanks so much for the comment though, I greatly appreciate that, and thanks for coming through. Have a great New Year!
ua-cam.com/video/q2n7aZGWZyc/v-deo.html
I've got an S1H and S5 and I can say, even in 6k, moire is really bad on the cameras without an OLPF. It bothers some people more than others.
@@ShaneVanLitz it definitely bothers me when I see it. :-) I’m definitely on the road to getting an s1h
Thank you for sharing. maybe some Ai Tools could correct it.
I haven’t heard anything about any kind of tools like that, but that is certainly a great idea for making good use of AI. Thanks so much for coming through, I greatly appreciate that.
p.s. hahaha..."Click Off". That's great. it will never get censored. As we say, "Don't let the Turkeys get you down" :)
Yeah, I think there are people who just sit around all day and click on videos on UA-cam and comment on them, like they are the gatekeepers for what is correct for UA-cam videos, and it becomes a personal attack on everybody's video. It's actually pretty sad.
The s5 does in fact record 10bit 422
I know, that’s how I record all the time. 4K, 10 bit, 422.
S1h on sale for 2500 usd. But I would wait mk ii
I’m definitely gonna get an S1h but I’ll probably buy one use, because I’ve seen them for less than 1500. For that, it’s pretty much everything I need because I’m not really worried about auto focus so much. Thanks so much for coming through though. I greatly appreciate that.
@@RockWILK can you please share what site you saw an s1h on for 1500?
& how would you compare it to lumix g series cameras?
@@oman4229 MPB.com and ebay. And you can't really compare the s1h to the g-series cameras, you're talking about full frame versus micro 4/3.
@@RockWILK got you & thank you so much!!!! I'm currently peaking into new camera ecosystems & panasonic really has had my eye.
Just 1 more question, is there any consumer protection for a site like eBay & for both is there any sort of warranty given with the purchase? Sorry it's just my 1st time looking into aftermarket sites
@@oman4229 eBay definitely has protection, and MPB is a legitimate site as well. You might get a bad seller on eBay, but eBay will protect your money for sure. Nobody gets paid until you receive your item, and if there’s something wrong with the item, eBay will refund your money, it’s a pain in the ass sometimes, but I have done many deals on eBay, and I have had maybe one or two issues over the years, and I certainly have never been ripped off. If there was an issue, I was compensated. There’s no warranty on eBay, but there’s a 90 day warranty on MPB.
Moray? It's mwaa-ray.
Thanks for that.
muaré
@@alexced3923 moiré
I like the music you made. Witch software u use?
I created the music myself. I’m a musician. 🙏😉