Record Cleaning - part 3: Ultrasonic machines: The HumminGuru - should you buy one? My verdict
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2023
- Following up on my previous videos (linked below) I have started looking into ultrasonic machines. In this, the third of these videos, I report on my exhaustive tests with the HumminGuru record cleaner, which I believe to be the cheapest purpose-built ultrasonic record cleaning machine in the World.
If you've not already seen it do please take a look at my first record cleaning video: 'Record Cleaning - part 1: the myths, the theory, the practise unravelled'
• Record Cleaning - part...
To learn more about the the HumminGuru features and demonstration see my previous video: • Record Cleaning - part...
You can either purchase the HumminGuru direct from:
humminguru.com
Or, if you're in the UK, as I did, from: www.juno.co.uk
So I clicked to see if I should invest in this machine, an hour later it's clear as mud!
To cut a long story short: “no”.
That makes sense. Thanks.
Thanks for watching.
Really grateful for the time and effort you spent on this. I found the info invaluable. Thanks 👋
Really pleased you found it useful. Thanks for your feedback.
Thanks Dave. Very thorough review. Looking forward to the next part!
Glad you found it interesting Steve, thanks for your comment.
Dave... I happened upon your channel. I am a lucky Man. You have a perfect way to explain in clear concise language the facts, and that in itself is no easy feat. Kudos!
Thanks Rich. Glad to be of service.
This is so helpful to me.
Thank you so much.
You’re very welcome. Thanks for the feedback AJ.
Thanks so much for this video Dave. Your results were much as I expected.
Thanks for watching and commenting Ed. Apart from one aspect: I anticipated I’d be US cleaning then vacuum drying, rather than the other way round. Try as I might, I couldn’t get away from the fact that the very best sound was always had when the final step had been a pure water US rinse and air dry…
@@DaveDenyer I've been really studying up on the lower cost cleaning machines and quickly surmised that I'd probably be buying an US and a vac. Which one to buy first? The vac, methinks.
@@ediblehorse whichever order you go for it I think you'll be happy.
Great review again Dave! I do a very similar routine but in reverse. I use the Humming guru first with surfactant and then clean with surfactant on a vacuum machine and rinse on vacuum. Works great
Thanks Keiron. To be honest on previous experimentation (with the Kuzma & Kirmuss) I tried US followed by vacuum drying. All records I cleaned back then had previously been cleaned however, so it was ultimately a chemical-US-vacuum workflow…
that was a in-depth review. Thanks for taking the time.
Thank you for watching and for your feedback.
@@DaveDenyer Dave, your recommendation for using a Spin-Clean with Clearaudio Pure Groove followed by HumminGuru with distilled water seems to be the combo that makes the most sense. I have high hopes that the Degritter will be an all in one solution. Cheers mate!
@@DJGeorgeDisco I really appreciate your support and comments. I’ve only just started to experiment with the Degritter, so it might be a week or two before I can deliver the verdict. Thanks mate.
Hi Dave great video. Got my loricraft came from avid audio. Very pleased with it. Having had cheaper machines. I’m just using my own tincture until it’s finished might go on to the clearaudio solution.
Thanks George. Glad you went for the Loricraft. I think I said, I’ve owned a PRC3, then a 4, and now a 6. They’re all essentially the same.
I would recommend you try the Clearaudio fluid. Prior to that I used either my home made concoction, or L’Art-du-son.
Terrific review and analysis of the HG. You deserve a white lab coat with a VU meter on the back. Looking forward to now listening to your review of the DeGritter. Well done👍👍
Much appreciated! Hope you enjoy the Degritter review!
Dave, I’m really impressed with your thoroughness of testing in this video and agree it’s the best review of its kind so far. This must have taken you a huge amount of time to undertake all the testing you described. I purchased the Humminguru (HG) through the Kickstarter and think it’s great value and performs very well at it’s price point (I do believe it’s unfair to compare it against much more expensive Degritter, KL, etc). Through trial and error my cleaning routine aligns with your recommendations pretty closely. For a complete clean I do an initial clean with a a SpinClean using their wash solution, then one 5 min clean in the HG with distilled water with surfactant (routinely I use G-sonic US cleaner but I have tried Tergiklean & Kodak Photoflow which also work well) and a final 5 min rinse in pure distilled water with the 10 min dry cycle (I source my distilled H2O from hardware store which although not pharmaceutical grade is sufficiently pure for record cleaning and much cheaper in comparison). I batch my records for cleaning as you suggested and typically wash ~5-6 in one batch where I rack them after the first surfactant clean and then run them through the rinse dry cycle individually. I also use a second HG tank so I simply swap tanks between surfactant and rinse cycles. This for me is the most efficient way to clean. It typically takes a few hours to get through 12-20 records. One more thing I do is to let the records air dry in a rack for a couple of hours after the final cycle in the HG. I was warned by a cartridge rebuilder of the risks to your cartridge of playing a record that wasn’t completely dry. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Gino, I’m really pleased you liked the video.
To be honest I forgot to mention that I also typically air the cleaned records for 20 minutes or so. If you play them too soon after cleaning they can sound worse than before cleaning. I’ve always assumed this is due to residual moisture, which I guess would significantly increase drag / friction.
I use the drying rack that came with the Disco-Antistat for this purpose.
Thanks for your awesome feedback.
Thanks Dave!! I really appreciate the detailed assessment. I personally do something very similar, I use a VPI 16.5 Vacuum machine (with A1 One-Step enzymatic cleaner) ; distilled clean (with a little ifutol to spread). Then I do the Humminguru with the “small bottle” product they recommend. This seems to work really well in most situations. Recently I bought the products to make the solutions that the Audiophile man recommends (IPA, Propyene glycol, tergikleen) to try, but I haven’t started the experiments yet. I’ll be real curious to see what improvements the Degritter 2 provides over the HG.
Glad you appreciated the video Jefferson. I’ve not tried A1 cleaner, I’m wondering if it’s similar to L’Art du Son, my preferred cleaning solution prior to trying the Pure Groove. I still use it on occasion, particularly on shellac 78s which would be severely damaged by solvents…
I too really hope the Degritter clearly outperforms the HG. The next week or two should reveal…
For filtering, when putting the "water" back into the tank, i use a kind of duble filtering, by using the filter from and older Discwasher manuel record cleaner, sitting on the top of the HG slot, when poring down the "water" for a new cycle. It will keep the HG filter from ware out and keep it prety clean, before using a new one. I think all these things has to be concidered, when using the HG, as Dave does so good here. A good starting point, you can reach by reading the manual. But to come up with new ways of doing this, can be very rewarding (imo). I thank u Dave, for taking your time with this subject, which is always an on-going process for all Audiophiles and record collectors. I started 6 years ago, experimenting on cleaning records. From my own solutions, to well known chem solutions, like L´art and MOFI cleaning liquids. Wen´t from the cheap Discwasher to a Project VC, and now i´m trying out the HumminGuru. I also found out, that doing it in steps, involving the Project as a kind of "headcleaner", and finishing of with a rinse on the HumminGuru, seems to work best for me. A 2 min cleaning cycle on the HG, is not enough (at all). Even new records doesen´t really benefirt from the 2 min cleaning. So i´m close to have experienced the same as u Dave. But always good to be comfirmed ;-) Cheers from Denmark.
Thanks for your comment Thomas. Your current system seems very similar to what I'm now doing: I start with a thorough cleaning on the Loricraft followed by a thorough ultrasonic rinse in the Degritter.
Great stuff Dave, as thorough an analysis as it gets. I’d like to add a slightly different perspective though. While you’re looking for the absolute best cleaning available, my reasons for getting a Humminguru were different. I already owned a Pro-ject vacuum cleaner, but only used it rarely. It’s huge, heavy, ridiculously loud and you need to be attentive for the entire cleaning which I find to be about 5 minutes for both sides of a record - or about 6 lp’s in 30 minutes. The Humminguru on the other hand I can pull out and have it running while I’m doing other stuff and just change the record being cleaned every time I notice one is done. The goal for me is not to get a perfectly cleaned record. As a person with small kids I simply don’t have time to clean every record I buy - never mind cleaning them perfectly. But I do love having the option to clean used or noisy records. And at an entry level price I find the Humminguru to consistently deliver improvements in that regard. After all it’s an entry level product and should be judged as such.
Thanks for your excellent feedback. I do agree that the Humminguru is a great machine for the money, that’s why I bought one. Just for me, it won’t replace the Loricraft.
There was only one instance where I struggled to hear an improvement from just one (5min) HumminGuru clean. And that was a brand new LP.
Glad you’re happy with your HumminGuru. Cheers!
This is probably the most useful test of the Humminguru on UA-cam. Your past experience cleaning records and a system (as well as a set of ears) capable of resolving the differences between the various methods puts this review well above the pack. Looking forward to the Degritter review :)
Wow, thanks!
Yeh , the man is ace
Most reviews and demos by tubers are useless , but dave ,I always watch
Thank you Mike! 🙏
Not a chance in hell I’m using 2 machines- convenience factor would be void completely. Extra dirty vinyl would get a quick wet scrub with Mofi brush followed by RCM. I’m trying to choose between the HG and the new Pro-Ject VC-E2, tough call..
spot on David--I have the H'Guru and use distilled H2O only--does a good job for the $$...JG
That's good to know, thanks for the feedback Jack.
I recently bought a HG 3 weeks ago and use it with only distilled water and it seems to be working fine. I'm not going to try using any surfactants to risk any problems to the machine over the long haul.
I built a vinyl vac rig and do a final rinse/dry with the guru. Seems to work well.
Cool! Thanks for sharing.
Great detailed analysis Dave. I’m very happy with my Pro-ject VC-S2 it’s been an excellent machine and I’ve cleaned over 3,000 records on it. I had been wondering whether a 2-stage process involving an ultrasonic machine would be even better ie a deep clean on the ultrasonic then a clean/rinse/dry on the vacuum machine. I am very interested to see your Degritter review. Take care cheers
Good to hear you’re happy with your Project. As I hope my video makes clear, view the HG as an addition, not a replacement and it really won’t disappoint.
What surprised me was that it seems to be best to do the chemical / vacuum clean first, then the US rinse. Rather than the other way round…
Hi Dave yes I thought that was interesting too. The thing is with the Pro-ject is that on new records it eliminates any static that is always a pain especially with the printed paper inners etc. I use L’art du Son and I found it to be excellent. I guess if I had both machines I could do all manner of experimentation until,I found what worked best, and I do love a new bit of kit - well who doesn’t?! I did see a review of the Degritter 2 by theAudiophile guy and he seemed to be saying it was a substantial improvement over the Mk 1, but at £2.5k is only something I’d buy if it was so special it was in a completely different league to my Pro-ject (it may well be for all I know!) so the Humminguru at under 500 quid was very tempting indeed. Who knows maybe they’ll do a higher powered Mk2 of the Humminguru in the next couple of years. Even if it was say 600 quid they’d sell a tonne of those cheers
I agree that the ‘Humminguru’ as a supplement is the right way. I use an Okki Nokki first with Vinyl Vac solution, (find it better than L’Art du Son).
I’ve has a KLaudio LP200 since late 2003.
It is industrial grade and hands free
Done over 4000 lps
Wonderful low noise floor, removes static, brings out low level details and microdynamics
Many used records go up a grade in condition and new records benefit greatly as well
Thanks for sharing. If I can arrange a loan sample I’m definitely interested in trying the KL (I do work in the hifi business and know the UK importer).
At the same time I couldn’t ignore the HumminGuru as I fully appreciate not everyone has the same budget.
Yes the Humming guru and Degritter are bringing the prices down fortunately
I still don’t have a record cleaner, been looking into it for a good while now, at least 30 years, but I just get discouraged by all the trouble it takes. I once rented a VPI from my dealer, my wife took the kid and left to her parents place for the weekend. I watched your last hummingguru video and the noise it made sounded like it was going to break any minute and you now confirm that it needs a pre chemical wash for it to be really beneficial.
Until they find something simple I’ll stick to diamond cleaning. I’m pretty certain that if a stylus did not work with a diamond, let’s say it’s only a metal rod as before, someone would of invented this amazing record cleaner that uses a pure diamond at the end of the stylus. Also a chorus of people would scream; “IT’S DAMAGING YOUR RECORDS”.
Thanks for your videos though it’s good to be informed. You basically came to the same conclusion as your compatriot, the audiophile man. Actually I owe the audiophile man an apology, I thought the guy was exaggerating with the length of cleaning time it needs to be really efficient.
Thanks again, very appreciated.
I do thoroughly recommend cleaning records, simply because it makes them sound better, and to be honest, as I said at the start of this video, just one clean usually makes a clear audible improvement. I only cleaned and cleaned by way of experimentation, so what was possible.
I only generally clean my LPs once when I first get them, so for me the effort seems very worthwhile.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for the feedback.
@@DaveDenyer I"ll most probably breakdown and buy something soon, waiting for the your degritter review.
Great video Dave, again. One question, is distilled water the same as deionised water as I’ve been using the latter without any issues?
Hi Jonny, as I understand it (and I’m not a scientist), distilled water is totally pure, being condensed steam, whereas deionised is virtually pure. I think both are probably fine for record cleaning, I just prefer to be totally sure, so use distilled water.
Thanks for all the work in this video! I have the Project, the Kirmuss and the Humminguru. I found the Kirmuss method ineffective. I then started using homemade fluid in the Kirmuss. 6 liters of distilled water, 300ml of 99% iso alcohol, 3ml of Triton X-100, 3 ml of Hepastat 256. I followed that with a distilled water rinse on the Project. This yielded excellent results but I felt like it could still be better. I now follow the Kirmuss/homemade fluid with a distilled water rinse in the Humminguru. I don't think it can get much better at this point. BTW the Hep 256 neutralizes the static issue.
Thanks for your valuable feedback. Yours sounds like an excellent method.
@@DaveDenyer Do you have any thoughts on Kirmuss' method/claims or the machine itself compared to the Humminguru? Similar to your thoughts, I don't think either one is enough on it's own.
@@TheMax1230 just going on memory I would expect the Kirmuss to outperform the Humminguru on cleaning ability.
Thats exactly my routine.l use a loricraft with cleaning fluid then a 4 min.bath in the humminguru with a drop of photoflow.l also use a SPI workstation ioniozer on a tiltable tripod directed at the vinyl record while spinning.l now never have a static charge unlike in the past.Less than a $100.
Great minds think alike!
Thanks for the feedback, and that’s s great tip regarding the ioniser.
Static is my big issue. A search for the SPI workstation ionizer shows pricing starting around $500. Can you point me the the direction of one in the $100 range?
@@KentDuffy l bought mine on ebay used but practically new.They do come up from time to time,but $500 is to much.l can send photo of how l set mine up,works exceptionally well.l give a record a short blast of ion before playing as well as continuously while playing
@@KentDuffy sorry, I have no experience of these so honestly can't advise you.
This is a great analysis, thanks for taking the time. I bought a Humminguru and agree that, on its own, it doesn’t clean everything. I use the Disco Antistat for a first step with IPA cleaning mix (recommended by the Audiophile Guy), then into the Humminguru for a rinse with Ilfotol diluted 1:200 in distilled water. Given your comments about the veil left by solutions, I’m thinking of adding another HG rinse in pure distilled water. Would that be worthwhile?
Like you, I’ve noticed some static build-up from the HG drying cycle. Are there any problems with leaving the rinsed records to air dry?
Thanks Tony.
To be honest, I think you’d be hearing the second HG cleaning more than the possible any residual Ilfotol.
I always give my records at least twenty minutes in the Disco Antistat drying rack, after drying with the Loricraft, HumminGuru or Degritter.
Dave - Humminguru now officially recommend using their surfactant. ('The small bottle').
Is it worth retrying with that? (I did note your comment at 34m)
I’ve now sold my Humminguru, but if I still had it I’d certainly give it their fluid a try.
Not trying to be the one to spoil the party: Did you also consider cleaning the stylus? I’ve been using the ‘Flux Hifi Sonic’ for about a year now, cannot life without it anymore. For record cleaning I’m using the simple yet ‘disco-antistat’. Combination of both is 🎉
Hi @Wildknapp. Yes I cleaned the stylus after each clean to be honest, partly to see if I was getting any muck (or heaven forbid, vinyl) raked out of the groove.
For this reason I was using a DS Audio stylus cleaner, so I could clearly see any dirt, but I also use an old Goldring 'sonic' stylus cleaner which I think dates from the 1980s.
Did you ever try vacuuming dry the ultrasonic cleaned records Vs using the air drying cycle? Wonder if that would be helpful?
Good question, I did and I actually preferred the sound after the air drying, however I'm not 100% sure this wasn't due to the efficacy of the rinse I was using at that time. I need to try this again to be sure, but having said that, with really, really thorough rinsing, which does positively influence the result, the drying stage shouldn't be as critical.
Question. If you were to apply cleaning solution manually and did not have a vacuum, could you go directly to ultrasonic, followed by drying?
Good question:
Putting the record with cleaning agent in the ultrasonic should certainly enhance the cleaning action but then your ‘bath water’ isn’t clean: you’ll dry on the ‘soap’ residue. Changing ultrasonic bath water will become necessary very regularly.
If you can at least rinse the record before it goes in the ultrasonic machine your ‘bath water’ will be cleaner and you should get better results.
The Humminguru isn’t as powerful as the other ultrasonics you’ve used. Also, a surfactant added to the distilled water will also help an ultrasonic do it’s job. Most people can’t afford two different record cleaners. If a record has visible dirt on it, especially used records, a pre rinse or wash by hand is a good idea. I’ve seen other videos about the Humminguru, and because it’s not as powerful as the others, it’s not as thorough. So, like you said, multiple cleanings might be necessary. You’ll enjoy the Degritter for sure. What I do when I use my Vevor machine, is add surfactant to the water. After cleaning I then rinse and then vacuum the record. And I’m sure that many Humminguru owners use surfactant as well.
Thanks for the interesting feedback Larry. If I can get as good, or better results from 1-2 cycles on the Degritter as I can get with countless cycles on the HG I’ll be happy.
From what I’ve seen, you should be pleased. Are you planning on doing a video on the Degritter?
Hi Larry, yes, I have been exhaustively testing the Degritter for a couple of weeks now and feel pretty close to having reached my conclusion. I plan on making a video on this in the next day or two.
Hi Dave. I have a bunch of records that were kept 10 years in a storage.
They are full of dust, grime and some have what it looks like small spots of mould.
I am guessing HumminGuru or any other ultrasonic system will not clean these records.
Should I just invest on a Vacuum machine with fluid, will that do the job?
Hi Pedro. A vacuum machine with a good cleaning fluid should do the job! The cheapest ones I know of are the Okki Nokki and the Project.
@@DaveDenyer Thanks for replying.
Yes, Project VCE2 cost around £350.
Excellent david,degritter it is then ... Great detailed vid
LOL yes, I’m looking forward to properly trying the Degritter!
I have a Nitty Gritty and moving on to this. We shall see how it holds up.
Hope you find the HumminGuru a useful addition / upgrade...
@@DaveDenyer Ultrasonic is what intrest me and the drying. I am curious if diffrent water solutions can help with the drying.
@@kceateva Certainly my most recent videos are concerned with ultrasonic: because that's what interests me at the moment. Once I've worked out which machine I shall go for myself, then I'll probably reinvestigate the subject of cleaning fluids / surfactants / wetting agents...
What vacuum machines are recommended at about the same , or less, price point as the HG?
There are a few on the market, the Okki Nokki and Project are around that price.
So chemical clean 18 times then ultrasonic 26 times and then 12 rinses and it may be clean?
I’m doing these multiple cleans to see if there are adverse or long-term effects. To cut straight to the point, “don’t do multiple cleanings with a Humminguru”.
Frankly, at this sort of price point, I’d stick to a vacuum type record cleaner.
If Pink Floyd was teaching a science class...
😂
Three videos and this one is over 50 minutes, come on mate. I just skipped to the end to hear you say what I already know. $500 For something that looks like a cheap piece of plastic? Never mind 10 minutes to dry and it doesn't clean 7" records. If it breaks what do you do, send it back to China? Totally agree with you that you would be better off with a Vacuum machine instead. Maybe next time just one video about twenty minutes. LOL
Glad you agree with my findings. Sorry you found the videos far too long - you should've seen takes one and two!!! ;-) but I just tell like I tell it. Thanks for the feedback.
Somebody reviewed degritter on utube and said it made no lessening of pops and clicks..