Ranking Top Budget Bluewater Sailboats
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- Budget Bluewater Sailboats Document [ep 26]
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In this episode of Project Seawolf we dive into some of my top-picks for THE Project Seawolf boat that will take us around the world!
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I owned a Pearson 36 and loved it. I sailed it from Norfolk, Va to South America and back up through the western Caribbean and back up the east coast. She was rock solid and handled rough seas great.
That is excellent news, ya, I wouldn't pass up on one for sail in the Puget Sound, they actually seem like great boats and have proven themselves time and again.
Regarding having to pop up and look where the boat is going, sail life channel installed a forward facing camera at the top of his mast and it's perfect for seeing where you're going without climbing out! Love your engineering style approach to this project, very good stuff!
Oh I am definitely going to instal a mast cam on the new boat eventually, very handy when single-handing to navigate in tighter areas alone.
Hey - just wanted to say that I really liked your video and the easy-going down-to-earth dialog and content. It's refreshing! Wishing you the best on your journeys!!
Hey! Thanks for stopping by! Ya, I've been trying to tone the channel down a little, no ridiculous music and more of a relaxing sailing experience when we hit the water again.
Great info on the CSF and comfort ratio. Makes a lot.of sense seeing some brands with more favorable ratios. Thanks!
Without having sailed on these boats it’s the best I can work with, yes, models with favorable ratios typically are ones solo sailors have circumnavigated with comfortably so it all works out!
So many variables on each of your choices it would be hard to bend them to a simplified data model. For instance, the WestSail 32 was often sold as a bare hull along with assorted innards and people tried their hand at ship-building, sometimes with less than stellar results.
Yes, the customer finish is always something to look out for, there are many boats like that. That being said there are a lot of factory finish new boats with plastic components in the steering that break after a season, what it all boils down to is what other people have had success with speaks louder than any ratio or brand.
Awesome video - this is an excellent primer on properly analyzing a blue water cruiser.
Thank you!
I appreciate your data analyst approach to selecting sailboats. I'll (hopefully) soon start looking for a bluewater sailboat as well, so I find your channel extremely interesting! Subscribed and will be following you closely!
Thats awesome! Do you have a few boat models your looking for? I've now sailed on and seen what can happen to a few of the boats I talk about in this series so maybe we can help eachother out a bit :)
i've not seen a comparison done like this before - very useful and interesting as your considerations are very similar to mine (Including the requirement for comfort!).
Chasing Latitudes is worth checking out...I'm a sailing noob so don't know much but have been told that the capsize and comfort numbers are pretty much meaningless so I wouldn't make big decisions based on that data alone.
If the numbers look good, and other owners can confirm the performance, AND you can find one to test sail, then I think you've got all the information you need for a good decision! The numbers just help narrow things down a bit without having to experience a storm.
@@projectseawolf That sounds more realistic than dissing a vessel based purely on the data sheet.
Another tip Chasing Latitudes gives is: don't buy anything than 20 yrs old ie 2003. 20 years is about time for a necessary refit. The cost and time taken to refit can make the purchase of an older boat less viable than getting a newer boat. That's going to be pretty much beyond my budget, but...if a vessel you like is older than 2003 then check the description for refit details. Boats just a little older than 2003 should be checked as they may be cheaper and if the owner has been good, then there may well be recent refits.
Another issue with older boats is the discrepancy between overall length and length at the waterline. In the long run, paying mooring fees for a 45 foot boat that only has 35 foot of liveable space inside, is going to add up significantly.
You should get an Island Packet 27! I have an Island Packet 35.(CSF=1.85). I am a data analyst too and for years did what you did. It is important but not the whole story...I get seasick too. Eat salty snacks...like chips, it helps a lot. The best advice I can give you is to go as soon as possible while you are young and full of heart! Good Luck. An Alberg 30 and Cape Dory 28 are also excellent boats. Also, look at Pearson Triton 28. Ps. Take the largest anchor you can fit! I have a Mantus 45lbs, 55lbs and 106 lbs on an IP35.
I've heard carrying an oversized anchor is a great strategy, just have to make sure it is properly set and re-set. It looks like I have a lot of small boat people on the channel now, so I will will start reviewing smaller boats starting with the ones you listed! Jim (the Dana24 guy) and I are looking at a micro-cruiser journey off coastal BC, so I'm already doing some of that.
Do not get an overpriced IP bathtub that won't sail, wont steer, and will cost you big time.
@@projectseawolfAny of these older “blue water” boats are going to need so much to bring them up to standard. I think you would be better off spending some more maybe getting a newer ex-charter. You can get a much newer boat that needs much less work. They will be much more comfortable. If you buy a $40k boat that needs $50k in upgrades what’s the point when you can get a much better boat for that total price
@@gcanada3005 finally, the voice of reason!
I lived at Shilshole on a Newport 33 and a Westsail 43. I highly recommend the Westsail 32. In addition to great numbers there is a very active owners group and you can get new repro parts (even chainplates!) it is pretty hard to put a value on that! I also like the Tayana 37 and Valiant 40 but for practicality the Westsail 32 beats most of them, IMHO.
Agreed! I've liked those boats too. I went with a boat out of Shilshole :)
Noticed the PSC Orion 27 wasn't on your list. These are very well built, comfortable, affordable, and have circumnavigated. Might be something to keep an eye out for.
Awesome! I will add it to the list! I keep a list of boats people have suggested I look into in the comments, thank you!
Watch the Valient 40 hull, because they are famous for having very bad blister problems in the hull. I have seen numerous boats that looked like Swiss cheese and you could see the interior from outside after the blisters were ground out. There are the late 70’s early 80’s era ones. The Pearson 365 ketch a pretty slow sailing boat, but the 35 is an excellent cruiser. The older Pearsons are very well designed and built very heavy. (I have sailed the Pacific on a Pearson Coaster which was an amazing offshore cruiser.) I also owned and singlehanded for 20 years a Pearson 39 throughout the enter Caribbean
Oh wow! I will seriously consider one of those Pearson boats you mentioned. Ya i highly doubt I’ll end up on a Valiant, both for cost and like you said something is wrong in the glass. Im not to worried about speed as much as comfort and safety in the southern capes. Have you seen any Slocums? I’m leaning that way right now but I’m easily swayed when there is evidence.
A Pearson 365 is a completely different boat than Uma's Pearson 36. The 365 is a Bill Shaw design with a fully encapsulated keel.
Yes, totally different boat 😅
Nice perspective young man, partial to the Tayana 37 myself. Had a Ta Chioa 34, precursor to the Tayana 37's. Lovely lines.
Great boats! If I didn't find my unique Seafarer I'm sure I would have ended up on a Tayana. Love those boats.
@@projectseawolfYou Talk about différent channels you watch. As far as I’m concerned the only one who knows what he’s talking about is Chasing latitudes. That guy knows more than everyone else combined about sail boats. He could really help you
@@gcanada3005 I will give him a follow! Ya, there is a lot of boat talk, it’s hard to figure out what is correct.
@@projectseawolf He's a delivery captain. I think he said he's been doing it for 30 years. That's his job. Holds all licenses. Spends more time on the water than all the other channels combined. No bikini girls just straight up sailboats.
@@gcanada3005 Well, Chris is right about some stuff and wrong about some stuff. He hardly knows "more than everyone else combined" - far from it.
Grt vid. No idea what you're talking about. Totally enjoyable. Now i gotta check what boat u got ✌️🇦🇺
I ended up with a pretty unique boat which of course I didn’t account for, but it’s been fantastic so far rebuilding it!
@projectseawolf yep, seen u getting down to business. Couldn't work out if it was t Hardin sea wolf. But more importantly, and this cracks me up....do u really get sea sick?
I do! But I’ve also spent weeks at sea and loved it, never gotten sick on a sailboat, but on a power boat getting to Antarctica twice has taught me a lot about myself and how to manage sea sickness in the Drake Passage.
@@projectseawolf 🤣! Adversity is a good thing. Thanks for the replies. Wishing you well.
I know I'm 10 months late so gonna check your channel and find out what you got in the end but I kinda shared the hope and humour of ending up with a sea wolf haha. Good video bro 🤙
Hey! Ya this video is kind of a curse now because it’s my top performing video and the project has come a LONG way since I made this video. I ended up with a 1969 Seafarer, didn’t even know they existed! They are an east coast company and not many made it over to Washington, so not too surprising. Lots of boat work lately but it’s all coming along nicely!
@Project Seawolf Yeah I understand, don't feel too bad about it though, it's not you just the algorithms. Plus, the easy, more enjoyable videos are always the more watchable and keep the viewer entertained - Just like IRL! The hard work videos are more for the specifics and people who are needing information or are invested in the story if you know what I mean. I'm onto the end of your videos on delivery and cruising on into some of the fix up videos, and I have to say I'm glad to see you getting stuck in and making it work. I'll admit I was a bit worried by the impressions I got from you in the first visit to check out the boat - Like you knew it was maybe too much work that you will regret, but you seem to have done great with it and kept your head up!
Also, I want to disclaim that I have never even owned a boat before or sailed for that matter of fact! I have been on boats a handful of times, and I am just a hopeful British estate lad that looks forward to the idea of travelling living out of a van, bus, boat, motorbike, tarp, igloo, whatever! 😅 it's a tough game and it's all 💰 💰 💰 (and a lot of paperwork and rules haha) but videos like these help! I feel like there's such an abundance on YT of sailing for USA but just not enough in the UK. Even the searches for reviews and availability of boats are always referencing very America suited options. I know you can technically get boats anywhere of all kinds but to really dumb it down about anything in sailing is quite tricky! In the boat world you will always have compromises especially under budgets. I will keep my fingers crossed for the day I may set sail and keep learning till then 🤞
Ya you never know what the algorithm is going to hit!
The UK sailors I’ve seen usually pick up their budget cruiser on the SE coast of the USA or Central America and fix it up there which is a huge pain given you have cross an ocean to get it home. Then again, UK folks seem to take on huge challenges in stride and do a great job.
I must say boat life is great, when I was living onboard for my thesis work in the Puget Sound everything was in reach and life was simplified, it was awesome. Can’t wait to get this current boat back in the water full time.
Ya, I knew any boat I could afford was going to have issues with the spec requirements I set for myself and honestly rebuilding a boat will likely make you a better sailor and world cruiser, since you know how it’s all put together and how to fix it. So ya I see all this boat work as a priceless opportunity to learn.
@Project Seawolf I can tell man, you're definitely putting in the hours! There's surely no better way to feel confident on the water in your boat than to know it like the back of your hand, knowing how it all actually works instead of just simply how to operate something. The specs to price I can understand, it can be very tough to draw a line in the sand on the matter. At this rate I'm thinking of taking the same philosophy of learning it all inside out to the point of just buying a project boat that has the best condition hull and rigging as possible for cheap and doing the rest myself as I go. I already know too well how much of a tough nut to crack that may be but I've wondered if it may be better for the budget I would be under - If the right purchases where found of course. Its a while away so I still use the enjoyment of learning more from afar on the web as educationally as I can. I would love to end up on a 40 footer ballpark like yours in the end, but for now it's looking like if I was to get something going with a decent size for living space mostly coastal cruising, the budget and reality of singlehanding would probably limit me to something under 22ft or 30ft max if I wanted one in good condition ready to go. If i wanted anything larger im sure to only run into the cheap end where the boats need just as much in repairs anyway. Hence why I've been wondering if it may work out in the long run to be more involved in the boat and what it becomes - just getting the barebones in good condition and then i can save money in DIY with carpentry and the utilities of the boat, which is definitely my stronger suit. I have to say though, I would definitely still need some people around me in the UK to help if that ever came round just for some guidance and my peace of mind 😅
Yes the west sail 32 southern cross .I owned a pacific sea crafter 25 sound stable but down below is tight .
What I have now is a Cheoy Lee off shore ketch 31.For the same reason you are looking at good comfort range .She's has 36.88 comfort range and capsize,at 159 . She's a Herschoff design with a head room below at 😢6 ft . She's has 8.75 beam .
I'll be following your channel from now on .
Angus
SV Violet Walter
Welcome onboard! I recently had the opportunity to explore a few West Sails and Cheoy Lees and yes, they can be a bit cramped but they are capable of truly amazing adventures! I hope I see you on the water someday!
Watching this video 7 months later, I'm sure you have already gotten yourself a great wind burner. I would have told you to take a good hard look at a Cheoy Lee. They are incredible and I wish I never sold mine.
I've heard good things about those too and I even looked at a few in the area but they were total rat's nests which is no fault of the boat. I think I found a pretty good one though, just needs a ton of work which is what I signed up for.
I like sailboat shopping, someday I hope to find the right hull, gut the interior and remove all the wood. An encapsulated modified fin keel would be my choice, like the Halberg-Rassey 352.
I agree with you! I would LOVE a Halberg Rassey in the 35 - 45ft range. You are correct about the wood as well, because of all the swelling and debris and maintenance I think I'll find a good faux wood finish to replace wood elements.
Amazing buddy! Go for it.
Thank you!
Just curious, have you looked at any Catalina boats? A 30 or 380, 385 or 387 are all very nice.
I have! Catalinas are nice looking but I don't see them as rugged enough for the kind of sailing I want to do and the build quality is poor, from what I've seen from my friends who have Catalinas.
I have a spreadsheet I call my "virtual marina" that I have set up to calculate the numbers when I see boats I like. Sounds like we think alike. :D If you're sailing around alone, I wouldn't recommend anything over 35 feet or so. The forces on a larger boat get to be so big you need functional mechanical bits that can fail. Personally, my go-to is a Bristol Channel Cutter 28. (In the market now.)
Agreed! Yes, a solo long distance sailor needs to be aware of the stress you are putting on your body operating a larger vessel. I completely agree with you, also I will add the Bristol Channel Cutter to my list as well.
There is a stainless steel boomkin replacement for the old wood boomkin, and most W32’ s today have it. One of the safest boats ever for circumnavigation.
Agreed, definitely a good upgrade.
Unfortunately the video is a year old, but I would have suggested to look into Van de Stadt. Known for their incredible blue water capabilty, we own a one-of 50ft Yawl Andromeda with a CSF of 1,55 and comfort ratio of 48. They are great, because I too get seasick but 8Bf with 2m cross-waves didn't do much to us. Had only the Fok out (jib I think it's called in english) and did around 9,5kts on average with only 25° of heel at 70° of wind from starboard. Such a great sail on these. At 5-6Bf or perfect sailing wind, we reach with jib, main and misan comfortably 10kts. Although our jib is tiny, almost a storm jib and our main was a misfit main from a 20 year younger Bavaria. Nevertheless, our boat will get a taller mast with larger mainsail, 130-150% Genua and a really nice Gennaker or Code Zero in the future. At 3Bf we only manage 5kts and because below 3Bf our sails kill and we don't move, we need more sail area
That sounds incredible! Glad to see other sailors still get out there on the water despite sea sickness, personally it's just on Power Boats or when I'm working on something upside down in the Laz that it really hits me. what a gorgeous boat and yes, I'm sure it's a joy to sail too!
Downeaster 32. Beauty combined with capable Blue Water.
Wow! Yes that is a beautiful addition to the list!
You want a double-ender sloop or cutter about 33' to 42' with full long keel
If you are not alone, you could consider ketch or yawl, but sloop/cutter is best for solo...look at Hans Cristian for style.
Agreed! I got my boat almost 2 years ago now and the channel has become a boat work channel. Although when I was shopping I was looking for a ketch because the sail area for individual sails were more manageable for a solo sailor, and the two mast system seems to be more stable and safer, but I went with a cutter sloop anyway.
Happened on to your channel; really like the analytic view.
I'm curious if you looked at the Pacific Seacraft Orion (27) footer.
I don't think you can go wrong with any Pacific Seacraft, all of the boats I have seen and sailed are exceptional. The Orion reminds me of a slightly larger Dana 24, which is what I have the most experience sailing. Excellent boat. PS Orion scores a Comfort Ratio: 32.17, and CSF: 1.72, making her a more comfortable bluewater boat than most 40 footers!
If you see a Rasmus 35 up for sale for 20k, point me towards it :)
The bottom right picture you have for Gulf32 is a Pacific Seacraft 32 btw. Both very interesting boats, but the Gulf is prettier...
Great catch! I should have just used stills from my videos in the San Juans where I saw one in person.
I based my prices on the most common, used-boat listings so maybe I got lucky that day when I made the video and saw a Rasmus for cheap.
If you run across a Spencer 35.They are blue water boats.It’s the perfect boat for me.They only made 64.But there’s quite a few of them around the Pacific Northwest
Thats awesome! Yes I will keep my eyes out!
Great analysis. Have you considered Southern Cross 39? It is a great blue water boat. I've been sailing one for the last 7 years.
Hey! Thanks! Ya I would take any Southern Cross I think. You have a fantastic boat: CSF=1.75 Comf=35.19 and quite the pedigree.
Great video! Thanks
Thanks! More to come
I needed to find this channel.
Boat shopping, boat work, and soon finally sailing! Ya, as we are sailing I’m sure there will be more boat reviewing, just toured a Westsail 32 in Monterey California.
@@projectseawolf, I'm working hard to save what I can, so I'll defiantly see you out there. (working w/ simular budget)
Just remember the bigger boats require much higher expenditure to maintain.
I found a happy medium between big and manageable ⛵️glad she isn’t any bigger because ya, it’s been quite the process getting her re-fit 😅
Good luck getting a Rasmus for 20 grand, ready to go is around 50 and one that needs work are around 28k. The Baba a wood mast wood decks and wood rott. The 365 is a great boat , you would not have to remodel at all. Your going to pay 50k ready to go. I have a Southern Cross 31 and it's a great sailboat but its narrow. It's built to sail not to hang out in a harbor
Oh man I would love to take a look at your SC31! Yes, it's kind of a balance between build like a tank or lavish living.
I was gonna say when I heard that, I haven't seen one in good repair for under $40K
One deal breaker for me is a spade rudder and fin keel. Too many potential problems
Ooo, ya I’ve heard some pretty harrowing stories caused by that design.
Iam doing similar but im looking for a boat to circumnavigate the eastern USA, (the great loop) I want to do it in the smallest sailboat to have ever done it. currently looking at a windrider 17
Great choice! I see those in the San Juans sometimes, awesome micro cruiser. Could a hobie cat do it as well? I’m genuinely interested in the great loop, it’s a great challenge and a true American adventure.
A while back I was looking at Norseboat rower-sailors, they are beach able monohull cruisers, one went through the northwest passage not too long ago, ideal because you can haul it up on top of ice to prevent being crushed in the flow when the wind shifts. There is a 17.5 and 12.5ft model that could work for your goal.
@@projectseawolf I've done a bit of sailing, crewed on bigger boats but i tend to not want my first boat to be too much for me to handle, i need to be able to raise and lower the mast myself, there are some low bridges, ultimately it comes down to price and location, pretty much any small boat could do it, i'd give it a go in a victoria 18 or an 1986 or newer Catalina 22, there is a Beneteau first 235 with the wing keel for sale that seems well priced and well taken care of. ive looked at compac 16's but im not sure its quite big enough and its upwind preformance sucks and most of the river system sailing is upwind. i prefer fixed keels to swing keels but either would work,
i've thru-hiked the Appalachian trail and kayaked source to sea down the Mississippi river, this is me chasing the next adventure... its like chasing the dragon but exactly the same lol...
could you talk about some of the strange boats like the now old IP24 sailer? i got an ungodly steal of a deal on mine and if love to hear your thoughts on the hull shape and size of the boat, its a strange and unique thing, also in what way is the dana 24 better or worse then the ip 24? i know the neither very well
Yes I will look into it, IP has gotten my attention recently and I’d love to compare it with the Dana24 I’m very familiar with.
Sailing Uma's Pearson is a P36 that weighs in at 13,500 lbs. and has a 6ft. draft with a fin keel. The P365 is a completely different boat in just about every respect - 4000 lbs. heavier with a longer much shallower keel (4.5 ft. draft). The sail plans are obviously completely different with the P36 considered slightly over canvassed and the P365 noticeably under canvassed. The only real thing they have in common is the name of the designer. They handle completely differently and the ride is very different with a comfort ratio span from 27 up to 33.
Oh ya, totally different boats, sorry I didn’t go into the differences much. I’d definitely go for the P365 if I was looking for a Pearson.
The worst thing about Sailing Uma's boat is the Sailing Uma couple themselves.
New subscriber sends Greetings from Tucson, Arizona..
What kind of experiments do you conduct?
I've been looking at 3 boats in Anacortes - can you share your bad experience?
Hey! Welcome! Yes, boat buying can be quite the process, I eventually found a broker (Pop Yachts) that took the specs I wanted in my new boat and was transparent with everything wrong with the boats he was showing me within my budget which is all I wanted from past brokers, just a shred of honesty. I did a whole episode on my shady experience with a yacht broker in downtown Anacortes: ua-cam.com/video/MrH0ZD4b2oE/v-deo.htmlsi=1CXQADLLveG_k-MA
Another seller was an individual and he refused to tell me the HIN number so I could look up the boat's history, insisting I pay him first, which was not going to happen for me. Also very shady experience... I mention it in this episode: ua-cam.com/video/2PmSJCQ5N2s/v-deo.htmlsi=FfJQIIOm8MqZA6Ju
'how to sail oceans' is a southern cross 31 I believe
That’s a good boat!
Have you seen Vigor's 20 Sailboats to go Around the World? It's a great reference for older bluewater cruisers. You may want to consider the Downeaster 38. (Look's like the Hardin, but made in the U.S.A. and much better quality. The Hardin's houses and decks rot out, I don't recommend them at all!!) I'vw had both a W32 and DE 38. Very similar in motion at sea. The DE 38 provides a little more room and balances beautifully under sail. The DE has a huge engine room too. The W32 is slightly better built and prettier imho. There is a brand new W32 (never launced) in Ontario Canada on YW that can be had for about $20k..looks awesome with many parts to complete..but it's about $20k to ship to Washington, State) Can't go wrong with either and in your price range you could get very nice examples of either! Sailing Uma is a Pearson 36, not a Pearson 365. Same designer but completely different in execution. The Pearson 36 is a racer/cruiser design whereas the Pearson 365 is strictly a cruiser with a shoal keel (doesn't point that well, more like the DE 38). The best variant is the Pearson 365 with a cutter rig..they deepened the keel and rudder and it sails like it's on rails.
Excellent, yes I was sold on both DE and W32, but I ended up with an interesting boat I’ve never heard of in the end. Still a little jealous of folks with the DE/W32’s though 😅
There is a baba 30 on ebay right now its at gig harbor washington
Oh! I will check it out! I'm only a few minutes away.
I worked on a Ranch named the Cross Ranch so maybe I should look into a Southern Cross boat.
Honestly, I don't think you could go wrong with a Southern Cross. I've heard the SC 39 is a fantastic liveaboard cruiser.
@@projectseawolf yeah I have to wait though. Me and my trailer house are being kicked out of this park I live in. The money I’ll pay moving it isn’t raised yet.
I have never seen Slocum 43 for 40K. Most of this one is slightly under 100K.
The listing I saw must be in really bad condition then 😅
Have you considered an Island Packet ?
Yes, they are great boats and I would definitely take a Island Packet 35!
SHANNON is a QUALITY boat worth your effort to investigate
Yes! Shannon boats are great, good statistics, beautiful and reliable :)
If you haven't got your boat yet have a look at an endurance 35 , 38, 40.
Very reasonable Very comfortable and fast
Yes! Those are very good boats I agree!
By the way, I'm currently following the OCR. I see there are some Rustler 36 and Cape George 36 in the race (Kirsten Neuschafer is currently in second place with a Cape George). Have you considered these boats?
Rustler 36: CSF = 1.72, Comf = 36.18, $100k used. My take is that this is an excellent boat to single hand. skimps on the living space so you won't be having any interesting parties but yes, an extremely capable boat to single hand. Cape George 36: CSF = 1.47, Comf = 47.83, $50k - $80k used. Wow those are some phenomenal statistics for the Cape George and not too pricey, I would definitely go with the Cape George if its in ok condition. Both have limited living space but its more than enough for a couple or solo.
What about a Island Packet?
They are great boats! I need to do a refresher episode with everyone’s suggestions and all the things I’ve learned since I published this episode. ⛵️
Quick non sailing related question. Can anyone tell me what the opening guitar music is on this video?
Mi Dispiace by the Mini Vandals
While I think it smart to look carefully at CSF and CR, comparing CRs of 30 footers to CRs of 40 footers is incorrect. That ratio is meant to help you make a comparison between boats of similar size and type. Just look at the equation for CR. Other things matter too. For instance, pitch moment combined with forefoot shape can have a significant impact on ride and slamming. I would also suggest that published displacement numbers are a crock for older boats and most are significantly heavier, even stripped out, than published lightship displacement. Ask the travel lift operator to give you sling weights.
You’re absolutely right. The numbers are a calculation with very little consideration for the actual boat design let alone superstructure. I thought it would be a good place to start though when sorting out all the options I had in the PNW and help me understand what makes a bluewater boat stable. Which is why I also looked into reviews from ocean sailors on these boats to see what they thought and if they are capable of the journey I want to make. Perhaps I can use some other variables in the next video, thank you for giving me a head start on what to look at.
Not sure the comfort ratio means much. Performance, however, is important for safety.
Comfort ratio is a mathematical calculation to rate stability in rough weather, I wanted something that would be comfortable offshore so it was a priority for me, not for everyone though since it often costs speed.
@@projectseawolf Last week I crossed the notorious Bass Strait (which separates mainland Australia from Tasmania) in a Beneteau 473 which has a low comfort ratio. I found it quite comfortable given the steep seas albeit following seas. I'm a bit sceptical that the mathematical calculation really translates into actual comfort. Traditional heavy displacement yachts (with high CRs), for example, often roll a lot in following seas. Speed will also reduce wave frequency in a following sea and getting to your destination faster reduces overall discomfort and increase safety. Two cents from someone who has done multiple Bluewater passages on different sailboat types.
The ultimate test is actually doing it! You have the wisdom and experience over me that's for sure. That is why I tried looking up what each boat model has done in the past, but I only know so much.
@@projectseawolf No worries. I highly recommend crewing on different types of boats before buying. There are so many design factors and trade-offs to consider. Personally, I would be wary about full keel boats as they can be really slow. There is a reason why the fin keel has been by far the most common design in the last 30 years.
UMA is not a Pearson 365. Pearson did make a modified version called a 365c, which is a factory cutter rig with a taller rig and deeper keel. They were a bit pricey when I looked at them in the past. Uma is a Pearson 36. This boat is lighter and more of a racer/cruiser type with a fin keel.
On the smaller side, an alternative that you may not know about is the Cape Dory 31. Not too many were produced, only 68. To me it is an ideal example of a small~medium cruiser.
Factory cutter, keel stepped mast and like Alberg's designs, sea kindly. It is difficult to express the importance of this single factor. The interior may not be to your liking 100% but I assure you for a solo sailor in this size range it is ideal. I did see one for sale in the Philadelphia, PA area for US$13,000. That is a tremendous bargain even though it needed an area of core replacement in the foredeck.
Another good boat is the Morgan 384, not 382 or 383. Back about 25 years ago Cruising World rated this model in the top 5 potential cruising boats on the market. It is a sloop but very easily to modified to a cutter. I have met a number of the 382,3,4 versions out and about in the world.
Personally I would avoid foreign built boats because of build and material quality.
Personally I would avoid double enders, especially Westsail 32s because of the loss of usable space back aft. See Project Atticus for a fine example of a Pacific Seacraft 40.
Personally I would avoid any boat with a bowsprit more than 3~4 feet long and any boat with a boomkin.
A little about me. I did a solo circumnavigation on a self rebuilt Cape Dory 28 called FeNIX, from 2006~2009. Over the last 35 years I have sailed about 85,000 miles, mostly as a solo. After a sojurn in SE Asia I will be heading out soon to complete my second circumnavigation.
Hope you can materialize your dreams.
@SailingOTR
Oppps, just noticed you already bit the bullet. :
It is an honor to hear from a circumnavigator! Yup! I've now go the Seafarer and several years to work full time, save money, and rebuild her to be ready to sail from 2027 - 2033, the route being a similar distance to your solo sailing, around 85k miles. I agree with all of your points, especially after seeing some of the boats I talked about in person. I will never stop learning from people like you with real experience, I hope you can stick around and guide me in this rebuilding process.
@@projectseawolf I plan to be around for years yet. But I am almost 74 yo. You can contact me through my YT channel. Be happy to help if I can. In addition to my sailing experience I also built f/g cruising boats for about 15+ years.
Remember the old joke: "How do you eat an elephant?" "One bite at a time."
I will keep that in mind! Already subscribed!
“Foreign” boats? I guess you mean foreign to the US… which is a very odd statement as almost all of the top quality cruisers are built outside the USA. Hallberg, Amel, Najad, Sweden, - the list goes on - the elite of elite are virtually all “foreign”.
Smaller than a 24ft boat? That’s a little insane
Ya I would not sail a boat smaller than 24'f out of the Puget Sound lol
I see one 24' now 😮@@projectseawolf
Good video, but I think you might be a bit optimistic regarding costs. Remember the saying, "Don't buy a cheap boat, you can't afford it." Having bought a Southern Cross 35 in 2021, I can tell you that a $27,000 SC35 will need a lot of work. Hopefully you stumble upon a nice boat at a smoking price, it happens.
Thanks! Ya I did, but I also wanted a boat to fix up, both for the content and to Lear all of the systems, I’m learning every inch of my new boat and it’s pretty great experience.
You literally bought at peak market the mono hull sailboat market is on a huge downside probably the worst investment you could make.. now all that free COVID money gone people actually need jobs
Be very careful when looking at a Yorktown 39. Many of them were sold as "kit" boats. That means they were sold as hull and deck possibly with an engine and owner finished. Some were sold as a hull only with the owner finishing everything including adding ballast. The result is they they are extremely variable in their quality. A friend had a very nice professionally finished Yorktown 39, but when he sold it five years ago he got over $60K.
$55K is going to get you a really clapped out Valiant 40. Likely one with blister problems. Valiant yachts was hit hard by the blistering associated with fire retardent polyester resin. Do not even consider a blistered V40 unless you have the skills to peel and relaminate the hull. Even then expect blisters to recur. Other than that the V40 is an outstanding choice, but a good one without blister problems is going to be at or over $100K.
A Westsail 32 is a very nice boat. Like the Yorktowns many were owner finished. A $20K Westsail will certainly have been owner finished or will have been badly neglected. The downside of a Westsail 32 is that it is a SLOW boat. Personally I also don't like the sprit. That is an area that needs to be gone over very carefully.
As far as construction type, build quality and methods go. You can't beat a well built boat. The vast majority of boats built after the 60s will have cored decks. There is nothing wrong with a well built and maintained cored deck. Even a cored deck with water damage can be repaired.
You also need to be a bit more realistic about your price range. For $40K max, you are going to get either a smaller, newish (say 1985) boat under 30' in OK condition, or an older, bigger boat that needs a lot of work. If you buy something in the 40' range you should be ready to spend that much again to get the boat ready to go assuming you do the work yourself and have a cheap place to do the work. If you hire much done be prepared to spend a LOT more.
I do have a general comment about using the various ratios as screening tools. Those ratios are based on minimal data (displacement, length, beam and draft) and do not tell much of the story about how a boat handles in a seaway. In my opinion, based on almost 60 years of sailing and formal training and work experience in Naval architecture, a formula based on beam and displacement only (capsize screening formula) is pretty much useless. The same goes for the comfort ratio. If you want to get serious there are two approaches: 1) sail on a bunch of boats with different hull forms to see what you like, or 2) Learn some naval architecture and apply it to understanding hull form and handling characteristics..
Incidentally I am from Olympia, although I lived in Lacey during high school.
A fellow Olympian! Hello! Yes, the Yorktown seems to have been a kit boat and as such its build quality varies. I am actually happy with the boat I ended up with and it fell within all my criteria at half the price of my budget, just ya, its a big project boat but that way I know every system, every inch of hull, and every piece of equipment I have on board before casting off.
I've been wanting to circumnavigate the world in all 4 directions north south south to north east to west west to east.
Oh man that is an awesome goal! I would say steel hull or concrete hull would be the best options for that. 🧊
You're off on the seawolf they were very well built .they Predate all the
All the leaky Teaky low quality reputation these boats have. The decks are glass over plywood that may be considered a down fall but like any boat that's Properly maintained
They stand the test of time. I have sailed many boats in the 40 foot range from New to old and the seawolf is a great and safe off shore boat. Only thing that I have
Sail that comes close is a Hans Christian 43.
I would LOVE to set foot on a seawolf, and if there was one for sail in the Puget Sound it would be very difficult to say no.
Swallow yachts bay crusier 26, that small boat is $120k, European made, good looking though, good use of space.
Now that is a lovely little boat! Beamy, good use of space yes, and trailerable! Amazing
@@projectseawolf may be British made, I looked up new pocket cruisers on you tube and watched a show.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that 70’s-80’s Taiwanese boats had build quality issues or issues with poor sealing on the teak decks but it wasn’t from owners. Sure ALL teak decks will eventually leak and need resealed just like every single thing that’s fastened from the outside on any sailboat. I’m the proud owner of a Baba 30 btw and when/if I upgrade it’ll be to either a Valiant 40 or Gulfstar 40 or 44. The full keel boats are nice but trying to do slow speed maneuvering or backing up is a crap show at best. The fin keel with skeg hung rudder is much better overall and faster to boot
Excellent choices in boats! Here in the PNW where it rains 3/4 of the year and boats are left to rot a lot of the time I can see why people might complain about their teak decks. I'm sure its just a matter of keeping up with maintenance which is sounds like you are golden with that.
@@projectseawolf I might change my mind too if it rained that much here. All the little leaks would be big leaks! lol.
I've not seen a Valiant 40 for less than $65k. Maybe one that needs a ton of work and/or a lot of bloster repairs done. But they definitely have a great reputation.
I also have not heard that the Taiwanese built Perry designs, e.g., Baba 30, Tanana 37, are of "poor build quality." I've heard the opposite for the most part. The teak decks are the problem area. But many have had the teak decks removed already and glassed over.
Good to hear from you again! Ya my Valiant price is very low-ball.
Ya the teak decks are a point of failure but hear me out. I went and looked at two Tayana 37's in Anacortes last month. Both were original teak-less glassed decks. However, the stanchions AND the chainplates had leaked so much they rotted out the deck and swelled-up the wood on the interior to the point that everything including the floor would have needed to be replaced. I still would have moved ahead with the purchase because I love a good project, but the broker left a lot of open ended fees in the agreement and was generally too shady to trust.
The mere fact that you are considering going solo on a boat much over 30' tells me you are still a rookie when it comes to blue water cruising/circumnavigating. Forget all your biz/office/comfort/multiple guest stuff. You need to be able to sail her in ALL conditions ALL the time by YOURSELF and feel good about it. And that takes time 'in grade'. The WestSail is a great all-weather/all-conditions choice, including long-distance upkeep, anchoring, and marina maneuvering for a solo sailor. Good luck and have a great time.
Agreed! and yes of course I'm a rookie. I would never consider buying a large boat, especially not a 1969 Seafarer 36c in Seattle two years ago, certainly not one of those... 👀
Ok I know nothing about this stuff. What is “CSF”?
Capsize Screening Formula, it’s a bunch of math to determine the boat’s likelihood of capsizing in rough seas. The lower the better. Below 2.0 is considered bluewater/coastal worthy, but I like to bump that down to 1.90.
CSF = Beam / ((Displacement/64.2)1/3)
look fo rIOR half tonners... same performance as contessa 32, but just around 10k... high confort ratios, better performance than most of your choices , and the ones froms the 70´... good capsize ratios
Awesome! Thanks for the suggestion, I will include it in the next ranking video. I have my new boat and we are hauling it out in this saturday"s episode!
You remind me of myself when I had the energy of youth and desparately planned my own sailing journeys with following seas. 40 years later with several thousand miles sailed cruising to Japan, Philippines, western pacific, and having observed dozens of cruisers who started from the West coast of the U.S., most of whom decided to unload these same boats you show because that 2-year circumnavigation is now taking the aft end of 8-10 years and they're broke. So here's my 2 cents worth: FORGET about all the "beautiful heavy double enders" you've shown here (think zillions of blisters that need attention) except for the Contessa and possibly the Southern Cross 31, ( both have their own shortcomings but very doable circumnavigators (don't forget your scopalomine). These other boats will be very slow unless you've got olympic class skills, and prone to breakage unless you do some serious updating or replacing based on sound technical engineering on the rig and sails suite, and a must is installing a top of the line windvane (hydrovane, monitor), and solar power system, which will cost 50k easy on top of everything. Seasickness is seasickness no matter the "comfort" ratio or size of the boat. In the end you'll want a combination of speed and as bulletproof a hull as you can get (think steel, aluminum as in Garcia yachts) because there is a reef somewhere in this wide world with your name on it waiting for you to doze off at the helm, or forget to set anchor watch. And unless you have unlimited cash, anything worth sailing over 40 ft will bleed you dry on repairs when you could have invested in a decent circumnavigator. Take a lesson from the way the round the world sailors prepped their boats 34-36 ft on the Golden Globe round the world race 2022? Wish you all the best winds.
Thank you for the in depth response! I ended up with a boat I’ve never heard of that I’ve gutted and been enjoying refitting.
❤❤❤
🦭🦭🦭
Go for the Sea Wolf, why ignore coincendences.
Right?!? Would have been pretty awesome but I ended up with a boat that’s a bit more manageable in size.
Big boat big problem...😊
Small boat big waves no space 👀 see my more recent videos
The tayana 37 build quality is best,baba too.but dude 45 year old boats all need more sealant for christ sakes. I have a tayana 37
Very true, I loved the Tayana’s I got to see and sail. I ended up with a 53 year old boat so all my credibility is out the window now xD
I like your math arithmatics... cant be explained to me
Ultimately I trust the boat's track record over the math.
Valiant and budget don't really belong in the same sentence. it is a great high end boat, but a decent one under 100K will be hard to find.
There was one for $65k when I made this video, but ya the only reason I included it is because of that listing, and people suggested it.
@@projectseawolf at 65K, it was probably very tired.
Sailing Atticus looked at a Valiant 40 as a possible A2. It was newer and quite nice. I think it was in the 250K ballpark. They ended up going with the PS40, paying way too much, IMO, given the work it still needed.
I would add a Cape Dory 30c to the list. Very well built. Cutter rig, which is nice out in a blow. Good capsize and comfort numbers. But it is an old school Carl Ahlberg design which means not a hell of a lot of room below. Long and thin. Made to take on the North Atlantic.
There was a FREE one on CL this spring at a Marina in downtown Boston. Hull looked sound, but the interior was ROUGH. It was a liveaboard (and die aboard, actually) for an old man who didn't have the resources to take care of her.
Still kinda wish I had taken it on, but, as they say, beware the "free boat".
Ya it seems I need to redo this list again, for the 4th and final time. I definitely will include the Cape Dory this time, and the boat I ended up with. I’ve got the haul-out episode next
week and the State of the Project report but after that I will take a break from boat-work videos and re-address this list with all the awesome suggestions people have made.
The Tayana ....offer $ 35 thou.
I did get on a couple Tayana’s when I was shopping, they were really cool (both pilot house and standard) but both sellers were really shady.
The C&C Landfall 38 is a great and underrated cruiser which are reasonable priced. Great performance and a nice roomy layout. Capsize: 1.88 & Comfort ratio 29.1. I would rate it as an average between Passport40/Valiant40 to Pearson 365. It is a very capable sailing especially solo sailing. Be cautious of the Wet Snail (WestSail) 32 as they are horrible at sailing. I would also avoid teak decks, the less teak, the better. Again, I know 2 folks who have had/have a WetSnail 32. These are nicely set up, but they are true to their nickname. A good step up from the LF38 (both $ and size) is the Pearson 424 ketch. The advantage of the ketch is a lower mast height which allows one to go under many old 50' bridges.
Ok! I will keep that name for the West Sail in my back pocket for when I see one lol that’s awesome. I will check out the Landfall 38 and I am already interested in the Pearson 424 so I will make sure that is on my shortlist when I go to my next broker. I agree with you on the teak decks, they just seem to cause problems.
It's called a WestSail 32...grow up.
Get away from rough statistics. CSF is only rough. Look at US Sailing actual capsize/ultimate stability numbers, if that matters to you. (It should.) I think Tayana 37 is actually below 120 degrees. Brewer's "comfort ratio" was a joke, and now people believe it is a real test. The heavier the boat, the better the number for any given LOA. Nothing sophisticated. The Baba 30 is pretty. But including it reveals your other error: many of these boats just won't go to weather. Baba30s, in particular. On a tiny water line, wide beam, heavy weight . Surely it will hobby horse. Obviously the Southern Cross and Valiant are marvelous designs. Hard to believe you can find a Valiant 40 for $40K that does not have blisters, however. Finally, you seem uninformed about construction quality issues, except for a couple of the Asian boats. Each boat you list will have issues. They all do, some worse than others. E.g.: I think Bill Shaw once warned folks: the 365 is not built to cross oceans. Join Attainable Adventure Cruising and read all electronic books John Harries has produced about cruising and sailboat characteristics. Then start thinking about boats. I sail a Brewer Morgan 382, heavily updated and refurbished. She will and has crossed oceans, but I am pretty sure I would not round the great capes in her.
Agree
agreed
🫵🏼👍🏼🫡👊🏼✌🏼🇳🇱
👍⛵️🦭
Pearson 365 is nothing like the Pearson 36.
Yup! Totally agree.
Find and buy an older Swan 36 and be done with it...Comfort, beauty, craftsmanship, speed... Whatever.
I've seen them for 40 grand.
I completely agree with you. Recently I looked into the various Swan sizes and their statistics and they are phenomenal boats. Highly recommend.
That being said, I just closed on a Seafarer 36, which has similar safety statistics but would not even be a close race with a Swan. If anyone else reads this comment, take Fred's advice and get a Swan!
@@projectseawolf Nice choice! I just subscribed and im looking forward to your adventures....Just in time for what I see is gonna be a long cold winter.
@@fredliperson9171 Ya, cold wet boat work lol I am delivering the boat from Shilshole to the dry dock in Anacortes around the end of the month. There are a lot of things below the water line that needs work. The first episode featuring the Seafarer is scheduled for October 1st! Thanks for subscribing! Looking forward to hearing your insights on how I can make the Seafarer safer and better able to handle ocean crossing.
sailing uma is not a 365
Yup! You’re right. They have a 1972 Pearson 36.
Hmm dudes haf like one brother and never cruised. Why am I watching this lol
Cruised yes, because UA-cam thought you’d like it lol
I feel bad you spent so much money going to school
Grad school led to some pretty cool opportunities and a much higher salary than my undergrad did but ya higher education in the USA is pretty ridiculously expensive, even at a state college.
classic armchair sailor who goes off metrics that dont tell you anything about how the boat sails, how it heels, its weather helm, speed, pointing ability etc, all of which are more important than made up term like "çomfort ratio"
Yup! I did the best I could with the boats I have on hand lol
Hi. I have to say I began to wonder about this too. These numbers are "ballpark" figures--good starting points but there is so much more involved in the decision. Also, I feel like my car mechanic told me about the value of a pickup truck, the value isn't so much determined by "the numbers", like age, mileage, but by what condition its in. I'm a Westsail 32 owner; by the age these boats are at now, their value is much more related to what equipment it has and what condition it's in. Don't underestimate the cost & time it'll take to get a boat in condition for ocean sailing. It could have an antique Volvo, 40 year old rigging and sails. OTOH, I personally think that some of these old parts are actually a GOOD thing, because you're not paying for something that the boat only "sort of" has. Our boat was "project" class, now it has all new rigging, new engine, new sails, and will soon get all new electrical, and I'll know how all of those things work and they won't be nearing (or past) their useful life.
P.S. I know of a WS32 that's not on the market but I know the owner will sell for maybe $7k. PM me if interested. Needs a lot of interior work but has new mast & rig. Engine overheats but I think it's just a clogged transmission cooling line. (Put a Beta 35 in it!)
@@fiddleswithbikes Oh man I totally would have taken you up on that offer but I already started my journey on a new boat! (check out the newer videos)
You should not buy until you look at a CS 36T
I posted this video a long time ago and have gotten a new boat now, but there are so many suggestions that I’m going to have to make a follow-up ranking video!
Most of those screening formulas are absolute rubbish. I can understand wanting a full keel, but... there are many buts..
The most important thing is length-length is a huge factor in a boats tendency to capsize, but of course you need to be able to manage it.
Agreed yes, picking a boat for this job was mostly done by looking at what other people have had success with. Experience speaks louder than any of these ratios.
Gulf 32 is definitively not a good boat for high latitudes. Look at the big windows of the doghouse and imagine a big wave, tons of water crashing inside. That would be the end of your dreams. Westsail 32 is a good boat, not too fast but trustworthy, Contessa 32 is very seaworthy, good upwind qualities, but narrow and cramped inside and a very wet sailor. Baba is great, if you find one in your price range. Halberg-Rassy Rasmus 35 is a good and comfortable family cruiser, but slow in low winds and the cabin is not good for long sea passages. Imagine sailing for two weeks on starbord bow and no place to sit comfortably. The dinette on the portside is not a place to sit safely in a seaway while healing to starbord. Don't look too much into comfort ratio. Yes, a boat in the low twenties will give a shaky ride. But slow rolling motions of a boat with a CR of over 40 will get you seasick in no time.
Totally agree, I've ended up with a boat I will have to modify extensively to prevent the large windows from being a problem. That is an excellent point about being comfortable on both sides of the boat on long passage as a tack may be on one side or the other. All around very informative comment!
How do u know all of this lol
Baba is nice but real sensitive in terms of sail managemnt and trim, needs to be just so in any given conditions or you have serious weather helm and other worse annoyances, wouldn't single hand it...
All these slackers expecting us to pay their student loans because they want to travel around and sail! Who doesn’t? Get a freaking job or sale for free and make your videos.
Money is a funny thing isn’t it.
Check tradewind 35.......
Wow, excellent statistics and very affordable. Wish I knew about this boat a couple months ago!
@@projectseawolf This boats are sailing in golden globe race 2022... They are build to cross oceans. Good luck!
Your statement, "it's PROBABLY a very rugged boat," when ranking a "blue water" sailboat, doesn't exactly convey knowledge, or inspire confidence in your expertise and decision making skills.
Therefore, after hearing that gem from your own mouth, I stopped listening to your babbling, and will make sure to not click on any more of your videos.
I suggest that all serious sailors, looking for serious information, do the same!
Sweet alright lol