I think the Mantle of Inspiration is one of the most underrated abilities to all bard subclasses. For the price of a single bardic inspiration, you can potentially reposition your entire party. It costs a reaction, but its movement and THP, that is on par with the amount of thp a twilight cleric can give out per short rest. Thisone feature has turned the tides of entire combats with that repositioning alone in my games.
With how the AOE concentration spells (ie spirit guardians, conjure woodland beings, etc.) work now, you can reliably get your party to trigger multiple sources of damage each round.
It's the type of ability that's hard to quantify I white rooms. At a table with switched on players is S tier, at your average table where the rogue still doesn't know how sneak attack works in tier 3 of play it's marginal at best
Agreed! I can't tell you how many times my party has made room for an incoming friendly AOE attack, or gotten juuuuust enough THP to withstand an attack that normally would have put them on death saves! While the role isn't for everyone, I think Glamour Bards are just so good at battlefield control and PHB24 has really only made that better. Being able to potentially cast a spell, use beguiling magic to charm or frighten a key mob, AND THEN reposition the entire party and heal them up 2d8/2d12, is just an awesome amount of stuff to do on a turn.
I'm 4 sessions in on a College of Dance Bard and I'm having a blast. She is a Drow who was trafficked to a big city as a child and sold into an indentured servitude of sorts. When I pick her spells, instead of just grabbing all the meta gaming selections, I've been selecting options that are primarily Enchantment/Illusion focused, and can in some way be traced back to "dance" as her art form. Got a DM that rewards story telling over power gaming so that helps. 10/10 would recommend the Dancer.
Sounds like a DM who would allow your special *Unarmed Strike* to use *Dex* for its *Grapple/Shove DC* _(or at least use _*_Str_*_ for its damage)._ Even if your DM insists on rules as written, you can still use *Str* for decent *Unarmed Strike* damage if you either start as a *Fighter* _(for the _*_Unarmed Fighting_*_ style feat),_ take the *Tavern Brawler* origin feat, or choose a *species* with natural weapons _(e.g. Satyr)._ Upcasting *Cloud of Daggers* after succesfully *Grappling* as a Bonus Action or Reaction, you can deal great single-target damage without ever using your *spell save DC,* hence, letting you take the *Grappler feat* and max out *Dex* _(or Str)._ You delay increasing your *Cha,* but *Font of Inspiration* now lets you expend spell slots on additional uses of *Bardic Inspiration* _(it's resource intensive if you spam Bardic Inspiration, but at least it also benefits your allies)._ *Grappling* is effective with the updates to spells like *Cloud of Daggers,* which now deal damage both when *cast* _and_ when a creature *ends its turn* in the area of effect. If the creature doesn't escape your Grapple, it will keep taking damage twice per round, as long as you use your movement to *drag* the Grappled creature out of the Cube and back in, to keep triggering the damage on *your turn* as well _(please discuss with your table whether you all find this strategy fun, or a silly exploit of the rules)._
I think the dance bard’s unarmed attack is a distraction to what it’s actually good at: defending themselves and the party. The attack is just a fun little bonus.
Yeah really disagree with their ranking of Dance Bard, who is in my opinion the strongest subclass. Particularly when comparing with the Valor Bard they put in S tier. The unarmed attack is just a bonus for flavour, it’s not where the strength of the subclass is. Tandem footwork at level 6 is insane. Do you know what the best way to do damage and avoid damage ? It’s to go first. Tandem footwork is a massive boost to initiative party wide. Even better if someone as the Alert feat so you can have incredible control on who go first. With unarmed defence you have around the same AC as a Valor Bard. And at level 14 you have an upgraded version of one of the strongest defensive ability in the game : evasion. Put your bard next to a squishy and said squishy has protection against melee enemy thanks to Inspiring movement and protection against AoE attacks with leading evasion.
@@3558I think everyone overlooks general feats and the potential that dance bard has with it , when you take a general feat that bumbs charisma not only is your spell mod going up but so is your ac, and when you bump Dex not only are you bumping your AC but now your unarmed strikes potentially hits harder depending on what your new mod is for dex on top of getting whatever the feat does , I think dance bards get the most from taking general feats in the game now
Dance is by far the weakest bard subclass in the phb, the only good feature it has is the initiative boost to whole party, everything else is just meh. It's like they just forgot after 3rd level that this was supposed to be the unarmed combat subclass, as they get no further features to improve their pseudo monk start, making the whole subclass just really unorganized mess. Do you want to be the combat bard? Valor does that better. Do you want to be the support bard? Glamour does that better.
I could see an argument for it being in B tier but I really feel like people are overstating the potency of this subclass. Unarmored Defense is generally not considered a great feature. It's better than light armor which is the default armor for bards and at higher levels medium armor but for most levels is worse than light armor+shield & heavy armor and is worse than medium armor+shield as well as heavy + shield. Dance Virtuoso, Agile Strikes, & Bardic Damage are novelty features. Inspiring Movement is decent, better with area of effect spells. Leading Evasion is similarly decent. It's evasion but 7 levels later in exchange for a slight buff (can help as many allies as they want with dex saving throws but it has to hit both of you and them and they have to be within 5 feet of you). Standout feature is absolutely Tandem Footwork
@@Klaital1 being the weakest bard doesn't make it weak, yes you want to plan this out but you get a sharable evasion a level earlier than monk or rogue. Plus probably the most usable unarmored defense I still think that this is a strong B ranked subclass with the right build you can really get a kick out of playing this, one really stupid build option is making a pseudo avatar build taking elemental adapt 4 times to bypass resistance against your elemental spells all while making out your spell casting mod and upping your ac and if you play human and take magic initiate twice you really up your spell and cantrip options. And you can still have fun with a character that isn't the best as long as you aren't hindering your party it should be fine
I feel like y'all shortchanged the Dance Bard by barely talking about it's very good support abilities. Being able to give a huge boost to your parties' initiative and give Evasion to people that don't have it is very powerful.
I love the new dance bard! I’m playing a wood elf who races in the roller derby and the subclass fits it so well. I crank my speed way up and just zoom around the battlefield and whenever someone catches up to me I elbow them in the face and keep skating
I've been a primary bard player for a long time. I think that dance bard isn't made to be a melee combatant. Its made to be a support caster with melee capabilities. At the end of the day Bard is supposed to be a jack of all trades. Its reaction to move and the ability to add bardic inspiration to initiative i think is much more understated. Especially since you can get unarmed strikes as a reaction without provoning Aoo. Its incredibly strong for level 1-4 in damage, by the time you reach level 5 when everyone gets extra attack you will probably be focusing more on spells anyways. Not to mention you can get a additional bardic off of spell slots now so you can do it more often.
Exactly, Dance bard is a great Full caster that can kinda do it all but is still a full caster first. The support it provides is wonderful, and it is great at dealing with fringe enemies or mobs that swarm the truly squishy teammates. Like your Barb is fighting the Troll, but a couple goblins are moving towards your wizard, you are the perfect character to just step between those and try to get the goblins to attack you and your high AC/melee attacks vs your 12 AC Wizard with 4 HP lol. Or if there are ranged units on a wall or ridge, you bamf up there and you aren't worried being in melee with average enemies. Could also be very good at kiting slower creatures with the reaction movement. Idk how you look at this subclass and think it's supposed to be in melee most or all of the time. Plus, Bards have an AMAZING spell list, be a caster
I play a Bard Dancer and i totaly agree here. I cast conjure minor Elemental when i have just little room and have to go in melee. Now my damage goes up and i make more damage in melee then our Fighter 😅 But when i have room for movement and my spells, and Support all of my allies and then go otto's irresistible dance to stop the BBEG and to see/hear a black Dragon attempt to do the shuffle was golden. So yeah the Dancer is the full caster with the Option to go melee but the defence as a full Caster and you will mostly be near other casters in your group the evasion Bonus will Trigger often.
Jack of all trades should be a skill floor though, not the ceiling. Forcing every subclass to adhere to a lower power level just drags down really great ideas. I'd rather have a dancey, punchy, spellcasty boy rather than a fairly good support with a mean right hook. I think the part I hate is I can *feel* the game designers trying to get ahead of the players who are too rigid and inflexible who would complain or dms who like to nerf classes which leads to complaints from players
I agree. It's a supporter and controller who can survive in melee, and safely get out of melee. If you're playing it like how Monty and Kelly suggest, as a frontline melee bard, I would say it's a D. I think B is appropriate. Anything dance can do, lore and glamour can probably do better in most circumstances, but dance would be amazing in a party that wants extra mobility or wants better initiative order.
@@GoldsteinNathaniel Sure, Lore is amazing, and Glamour has a lot of potential. The unarmed strike is a trap to build around. It will be nice to have on occasion, but the Dance Bard should be viewed as non-squishy caster as opposed to a frontliner or even Gish. I do think it can work as a bit of an off tank. Meaning like say you have a 4 man party, something like a Barbarian/Paladin/Wizard/Dance Bard, or any balanced party with 2 frontliners and 2 backliners or 1 frontliner and 3 backliners, that Dance Bard is going to be that Wizard's best friend when those mobs slip past the tanks, or the wizard is targeted with an AOE.
Fun fact about the Valor bard's martial training and true strike. Both don't specify that the weapon has to be a melee weapon, so you could use a longbow or pistol. Imagine a Valor bard with two pistols who, in the words of the late Coolio, is laughing and blasting.
I think you look at the Dance Bard as a slippery full caster rather than a Monk/Bard Hybrid. You're hard to pin down with your reaction movement/attack. It is not gonna be hard to have an 18+ AC for most of your career with the best Unarmored defense in the game, and that's before items/spells. You're hard to take out with AOE and in those instances where you're all clumped up against say a fireball/Lightning Bolt/etc, you cut that damage in half. And getting the party going first in combat is HUGE most of the time. This is a great subclass for being that backline or fringe melee combatant where you don't want to be talking on the biggest meanest thing in melee, but if there are mobs swarming your wizard/sorcerer, you can kinda help kite those mobs with your high AC. Or that ridge that has an archer or two and its tricky to land spells on them, Bard has no problem teleporting up there and you can handle a couple ranged enemies in close quarters. This is very much a subclass you want to pick and choose when you are in melee, but you should still be behaving like a full caster most of the time.
*Level 8+* is *_"most of your career"_* in exactly which campaign? The unpopular *Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage* is the only published campaign that I can think of. In contrast, *Valor* Bard has 18+ AC from *level 3,* which reasonably qualifies as *_"most of your career"._* The *_"best Unarmored defense in the game"_* is undoubtedly *Draconic Resilience,* since it's compatible with the +2 bonus from *Shields.* At *level 4,* *Draconic Sorcerers* can take the *Lightly Armored* feat to match the 19 AC of a *Valor* Bard in *Half Plate* _(or pick up _*_traning with Shields_*_ through a _*_Fighter dip_*_ if you want to increase Cha before Dex)._ 4 levels in both *Draconic Sorcerer* and *Valor* Bard is another way to get to 20 AC by *level 8* _(though it's even more silly than taking the _*_Lightly Armored_*_ feat)._
@@SortKaffe Say another Unarmored Defense is better but then requires a bad feat, a MC and a shield? seriously dude? asinine that you even wasted the time to type that part and wasted my time by having me read that 🤣. But I'll admit I did do part of my math wrong that someone who actually made sense with their comment pointed out elsewhere. I was capping Medium armor early at 13+2(Dex MAX) +2 shield for 17 vs a 17 AC a Dance Bard can easily have at 4 with no gear or anything else. I genuinely, and I think nearly everyone else, doesn't care what official campaigns say their built for. I've never played an official campaign, nor do I know a single person who has. Even DnD youtubers hardly play official campaigns. I've played at 3 different tables and our campaigns tend to end around 14-17th level. We are working on a campaign to 20 right now. So yeah from 8 and on, Dance Bard could pretty reasonably have a comparable AC to the Valor Bard and they don't need gear or a crappy feat to do it. And thats 9ish levels where they are even or in favor of Dance vs 7ish levels where the Valor has the edge. so yeah most
@@GoldsteinNathaniel 100000% agree, the unarmed strike is nice, your bard can never be disarmed, but you shouldn't build around it. I'd really only use that when I get the free strike from giving BIs or if I'm fighting like archer mobs and getting in close, I can negate their weapons while still doing most of my other Bard stuff. You could take it away entirely and honestly my opinion about the subclass would hardly change at all. Part of why i think Valor is a bit of a trap too (I still think it is a very good subclass). adding BI to one attack is, is often a terrible use of a BI. Especially for a subclass that almost makes you want to make CHA secondary giving you fewer BIs
It seems like the Dance Bard needs something for Agile Strikes like "When you expend a use of Bardic Inspiration or cast an Abjuration or Enchantment Bard spell as part of an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction, you can make one Unarmed Strike as part of that action, Bonus Action, or Reaction."
Dance bards are full casters who can realistically have 20 AC without any spells or magic items, can add bonuses to initiative and not only evade fireballs, but help the clumsy and squishy wizard avoid getting roasted. Easy a B+.
Yeah, I think you look at the class as a slippery full caster rather than a monk/Bard Hybrid. You're hard to pin down with your reaction movement/attack. As you said, not gonna be hard to have an 18+ AC for most of your career with the best Unarmored defense in the game, and that's before items/spells. You're hard to take out with AOE and in those instances where you're all clumped up against say a fireball/Lightning Bolt/etc, you cut that damage in half. And getting the party going first in combat is HUGE most of the time. This is a great subclass for being that backline or fringe melee combatant where you don't want to be talking on the biggest meanest thing in melee, but if there are mobs swarming your wizard/sorcerer, you can kinda help kite those mobs with your high AC. Or that ridge that has an archer or two and its tricky to land spells on them, Bard has no problem teleporting up there and you can handle a couple ranged enemies in close quarters. This is very much a subclass you want to pick and choose when you are in melee. But you should still be behaving like a full caster most of the time. 100% agree.
Yep it's the Bladesinger AC problem in a different shell. A caster subclass that buffs your defensive capabilities without hurting you core abilities is never going to be bad. The only things bringing it down are the strongest features don't come till later levels. Extra attack would push it solidly into A.
@@robertpower8374 Their strongest features are at 3 and 6, how is that later levels? Valor Bard is the one I'd be arguing have their best feature come on late
I think the focus on the bard's unarmed strike was too narrow, Dudes. They get other features and abilities too. They get the unarmoured defense, and with two stats they're most likely going to focus on anyways, they grant massive initiative buffs to their whole party, they get Evasion for themselves and allies withing 5 feet of them, which if they're frontlining they likely have at least one or two most often. I also think their unarmed strikes fall away from being something they'd consider for primary attacks by the time other classes get extra attack, so the bardic inspiration punch is probably the most it'll really get used, they'll likely start sticking with spells by then because they do better damage or have a bigger influence on the battle. I think it's a B tier already. Besides, Giving it extra attack would take away from the Valor bard and the monk. If you really want an extra attack on a dance bar take a 5 level dip into another class.
Once again only focused on the 5% more dpr rather than things that actually matter to most players like being three times harder to kill than another Bard, or moving your entire party around for free.
I think the thing about Dance Bards is that unlike Monks Bards have their spellcasting to fall back on. Monks get the martial extras but Bards get the support extras. You’re not going to want to be fighting exclusively as a dance bard you’re going to be moving up to an enemy, punching an enemy, and then moving away so you’re still not on the front lines.
As much as I agree that the Dance Bard feels like it's missing the Extra Attack class feature (and Dex grappling isn't a monk only), I feel like you guys are completely skipping over the level 6 features of the Bard. Adding your Bardic Inspiration to pretty much every Initative check is amazing (and if you are in melee range when combat starts, you get to kick someone in the mouth whenrolling initiative!), and the off-turn movement power of your ability is AMAZING. Seriously, I know it requires you to spend a reaction and a Bardic Inspiration Die to use the ability, but letting your allies move 10/15ft (or more if they are a Monk) when it's the enemy's turn gives you so much flexibility and power in combat to help shift your allies into the best possible position. It should be a B-Tier easily, with an Extra Attack or Dex Grapple/Prone version, being A-Tier.
The Dudes got caught up in judging it like it was a melee class. It is a full support caster and a subclass that is about support more than damage. I think if you use the Dance Bard as a backline caster who can tank for the true squishies when those mobs surprise you or get around your tanks, then you are gonna have a lot of fun.
I believe the College of Dance is worth more than a C. It is a new class and VERY different from the rest, so people are not seeing its full potential compared to already known and seen other classes. Additionally, there was no conversation about spells that could suit the Dance Bard. Just like the monk, it is a complex class that it has more potential in the fine details. Few details that comes to mind: 1) you CAN grapple someone. And if they end your turn still grappled, you can automatically use your reaction and move both of you even further. 2) considering you can move at other people's turn means you can re-apply some emanation spells like spirit guardians. 3) while id say the 14th level feat isnt all that good for that level, it makes the dance bard an excellent bodyguard. They have their spells like a bard, they can give evasion to a fragile class and if the enemy gets near them, they can just use their reaction to move both of them out of harm.
I think college of dance is basically the optimal way to play a bladesinger, but for bard. It's not meant to be an actual fight class, it's just a caster with good AC and ability to move out of melee combat while doing a bit of supplemental damage. The only reason it doesn't have extra attack is because they specifically tried to keep you from thinking of it as a martial character, unlike the Bladesinger which people have to try so hard to make it as good in melee as actual martials. It's not a bard that likes melee combat, like yall said we already have that. It's a bard that's good at not getting stuck in melee and good at not getting hit.
On the Dance Bard, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to the dudes wanting a full spell caster at level 5 dishing out 3 attacks a turn, and potentially trading one of those attacks for a cantrip. That's turning it into a kick Bard, not Dance. Seems like the design idea was the option to get a little bonus damage from a dance flourish after casting a spell. If it's a weak subclass I'd much rather have more features based on dance, and not taekwondo.
Yup, it is a support full caster with an amazing spell list that is boosting team initiative, has the best unarmored defense in the game, can never be fully disarmed, you are slippery as all get out, and you get to dish out free decent unarmed strikes as a reaction and when you give out Bardic Inspiration. That sounds like an awesome support kit to me. Dont know why you need 2 attacks every turn.
@@taylorsmith9197 It's a reasonable support kit. The level 6 feature is excellent, but if it's a Support Bard then it's up against, Eloquence, Glamour, Lore and Creation. It's second or third tier against those. If it's a Martial Bard then Swords and Valor have it beat. It kinda just falls awkwardly between both camps being not as good as the other Subclasses at either choice.
Spellcasters are often looking for ways to weaponize their bonus actions, and the mobility support and reaction attacks on top of that makes me feel like Dance Bard will be very solid.
I think comparing the Dance and Valor Bards directly to each other is a bit unfair because the Valor Bard will always win in a damage scenario since that's what it's built for. I think the Dance Bard's primary focus is actually it's (admittedly deeper in levels) mobility features, and the one-off Unarmed Strike is just a bonus that happens some of the time when an enemy is on your ass. Dance Bard isn't for being a melee puncher. Dance Bard is for the teamwide initiative boost and the "free" reaction disengage that also helps an ally at L6, and most importantly, shared evasion at L14.
Dance bard can benefit from extra attack obtained through spells like tenser's transformation and tasha's otherworldly guise. It was kinda wasted on most other gishes because they got extra attack anyway. I also think C is pretty low for a subclass that gives massive initiative boosts to their entire party.
On the topic of Dance Bard, I don't think Extra Attacks is what they're missing. I'd say that something like the Valor Bard feature where you would be able to add BI to your damage would've been nice here too, as it'd allow you to, for example, True Strike as an action, use BI for bonus damage, kick someone in the teeth, then give BI to someone as a Bonus action, kick someone in the teeth again. As an alternative, something like the Defensive Flourish feature Swords Bards have could be nice. On a side note, I feel like Inspiring Movement could've easily been a 3rd level feature alongside Dazzling Footwork. Leading Evasion comes too late at level 14, but I'm not sure if it won't be too strong at 6th level alongside Tandem Footwork. At level 14 you could have something that gives you more BI, just so you can slap more, again similar to what Swords Bards have, but different. Maybe spend a spell slot to regain X BI dice, akin to Sorcery Points. And as I'm writing this, I think that maybe this option is ok for 6th level. All in all, I really like the concept and I'd definitely play one at level 6, because I love the mobility these features provide to the whole party.
One of my favorite things a YT channel does is separate the sections by title and you guys didn't do it for this whyyy? It makes it easer to come back and check info I wanted to
This makes me want to see Colby make a build that is a Bard/Monk multiclass that gives you that dancing flavor. I’m not an optimizer, but I bet there is something there with a Valor Bard/Kensei Monk that could do some fun things as a Sword Dancer
I think I disagree with your Dance Bard ranking. I think you guys focused too much on the raw damage output and less on how all of the abilities play with everything else the bard has to offer. On top of just higher AC than some bards and making your entire party go before the enemy, this bard will be spellcasting and essentially buffing the party while dealing decent chip damage all in one turn. You can cast slow, then bardic your fighter, than make a melee attack. I think you guys are thinking of the Dance bard in a more selfish "this bard should be dealing more damage" and not entertaining the potential of "this bard can do potentially a little bit of everything on their turn". I think it's more of a team player than a "let me solo her" subclass. Regardless, good video and good content. Keep up the good work
Totally agree on the flavoring part, why everyone always thinks bards are musicians?!? I introduce my College of Swords bard as a dancer. He dances around the battle field, cutting creatures, throwing daggers… One of his morning routines is stretching and flexibility exercises. This one time our party entered a room where a cursed piano was playing a tune that caused an effect similar to Otto’s Irresistible Dance, there were people frantically dancing, people knocked on the floor from exhaustion, basically the entire mansion staff was collapsing on that room and I said I want to countercharm , the dm asked me “How you doing it?” and I responded, I wanna tap dance to a rhythm disrupting to the piano music, I’m dancing to the beat inside my head!
In a lot of ways I think that Glamour bard has now become the most complete Bard. It gives you huge party support that other Bards don't get access to, tons of control, and in the situations where you're dealing with mental immune creatures you can still focus on party buffing and support. It just FEELS the most like the archetype of a traditional bard.
20:41 I played a 2014 glamour bard, and that’s essentially what I did. At lower levels (6 and under), there were so many instances where I was able to help the party tank through encounters we should have run from. As a side note, my bard was more of a youth minister type, who’s goal was spreading the gospel of his god, so I said Mantle of Inspiration was Lathandar answering his prayer for protection.
I dont think the dance bard shouldn't dip too far into just biting the Monk's features. Bards are already OP, they don't need to do every class better than their class. Soon Valor bards will get action surge, lore bard will get Druidic Shaping to just have wildshape, and then a death metal Bard that can Rage while casting and concentrating on spells. What might work is giving the dance bard essentially a beefed up Bladesong from the blade singer. I don't like wizards, so I'm fine with that.
The extra attack feature of the valor bard lets him replace one weapon attack with a cantrip ... with a one level dip in warlock, that cantrip could be eldritch blast. So at level 11 you would fire three beams of eldritch blast, while still attacking two or three times with dual wielding (depending whether or not you want to use your bonus action) ... treantmonk made a video about that explaining that he will never again use conjure minor elemental in a build, unless it's been reigned in.
When I played BG3, I loved using Cutting Words because it could also be used to subtract from enemies' saving throws. It was like saying, 'Hey, you had better be paralyzed by this spell-it was expensive!
College of dance bard is a brilliant idea. It plays on all things a bard player wants to experience - you are very good in close combat, which, let’s face it, is always more interesting than just blasting an enemy from afar with weapons or spells. You feel really agile and graceful with the evasion and disengage tools you have, AND you still have all of the bard magic, support and social prowess. I love the idea of bards not being limited to the musician/singer trope - f.e. I always allow my players to play as a non-standard bards, like a poet - using their calligraphy tools as spellcasting focus as they frantically scribble magic into existence, or an artist bard, literally sketching pictures into manifested spells. The college of dance is a great step in this direction.
Initiative bonus to the entire patry is really powerfull. The punching when you spend inspiration is just a ribbon, the unarmored defence, bonus to party initiative and AOE evasion are the main things that make it really good. In a party that have a lot of casters, the bonus to initiative for the entire party make them the best bard to fit the party, so they worth at minimum a B. With a the buffs to their allies (party initiative buff and party evasion later on) they are probably the best support bard.
Hey guys, bards can also use Font of Inspiration (level 5) to expend a spell slot and regain Bardic Inspiration. So, if you want to focus on combat as a Dance bard, rather than spells, you can burn spell slots to gain more Bardic Inspiration dice. So, use your action to attack, then bonus action to give away a die, and attack, and then reaction to kick them in the mouth and move away. Three attacks per round isn't bad, and you can do quite a few in the day as you gain levels.
The Dancing Bard, if used correctly could be an incredible choice for a player character. Imagine a troop of circus performers, consisting of Bards, Thieves and Monks. Of course a Barbarian "Strongman" and a Seer (Mage). This would be a whole lot of fun.😊
I think Dance Bard makes S tier with the 6th level initiative boost alone, and the 3rd level AC boost is great on top of that. I don't think people realise just how strong a party wide initiative bonus is. This is competing for one of the best features in the game, up there with Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity and Aura of Protection. It's very, very good.
So this might be a colby build, but when I heard you talk about glamour bard, I heard, use all these features to prevent enemies from attacking me or my allies... I hear glamour bard tank build (perhaps using sanctuary or other spells to remain safe while enemies try unsuccessfully to attack you.) the spike for cowboy bebop. Now I have to look into this...
I feel like dance bard got a C because it's a bad unarmed attacker, when in reality you're supposed to use it to still be a bard, just a bard that kicks someone in the head as you bend and snap to cast the fear spell. Good AC (excellent at tables with more generous ability score generation), no bad feature levels, and you get to supplement what you're doing with some extra damage.
But they're being compared solely to other bards, so they all have those abilities. The comparison is only between the things this bard does that the others don't, amd vice versa.
I would disagree actually. I think they were compared quite a bit to monks in the video. And even compared just within bards, your analysis will land incorrectly if you assume the build's goal is to output competitive damage with unarmed strikes.
I agree that C is to low for Dancer. But compared to other Bards in Form of melee Valor beats Dancer and in Form of caster Lore and Glamour beat the Dancer. BUT the Initiative Bonus on lvl 6 is such a good ability. Even better with the Alert Feat.
My Valor bard build is a Viking Skald who focuses on support and damage spells and records the adventures of his party in an effort to craft an incredible epic and be a famous poet
I think I'm cute! I know I'm sexy! I've got the looks! That drive the girls wild! I've got the moves! That really move 'em! I send chills up! Up and down their spines! I'm just a sexy bard!
My go to bard in 5e was a samurai warrior poet, using the scimitar as a katana with the College of Swords. Haikus in battle, quietly playing the biwa in camp or at the tavern. Good times.
My friends and I are starting Ruin of Vecna soon from Level 11 to 17 and I'm starting out as a multi class Valor Bard 7, Swashbuckler Rouge3 (Since it's still available on DND beyond with the updated rules) and one level of warlock with the pact of the blade invocation I'm excited to use booming blade as one of my attacks, I'll essentially always be able to get sneak attack with rakish audacity and the nick weapon mastery on the rapier, so 2 d6 3 d8 with sneaky booming blade and thats just one of two attack, lock down the opponent and slip away with fancy footwork. I can beef up the damage with Font of moonlight and hex as well if the situation calls for it or stay hidden and use a crossbow with steady aim and vicious mockery/true strike. Battle inspiration along with the musician background to give heroic inspiration. Tons of skill proficiencies and expertise and I don't need to max out hex because CHA is my attacking modifier. Defensive duelist feat for reaction parry, shield and medium with at least a 16 in dex means I can safely Frontline especially with cunning action to get out of tough situations. Not to mention slow, hypnotic pattern, major image and all the other dope spells. Plenty to keep me entertained until Magical secrets in a few levels.
Never played a bard at table, but BG3 turned me on to them in a big way. 10/10 class and I'm looking forward to all the Bard shenanigans moving forward; Valor is my top pick for my first 2024 campaign. The one thing I can say however is this class really asks to have some gaps filled with multi-classing. Like alluded to during 38:00 multiclassing blows the lid off build diversity and really makes me reconsider going straight-class with a Bard, despite it offering a ton of value from the base class alone.
I definitely want to try being a dance bard, and I think if you want to be more of a hybrid mage/fighter multi into monk for 5 lvls gets you extra atk, flurry of blows and subclass into the elemental monk to gain reach and elemental strikes. Plus still good access to bard spells, support features and dmg die for unarmed strikes reach d12
Playing a Valor Bard (in Drakkenheim!) and went magic initiate (druid) for Shillelagh. No level dip, just have to use a quartestaff/club. Still mostly support focused, but can contribute in combat quite well too.
I was excited for the Dance Bard, but I did not expect the Valor Bard to come out swinging the way it has. Valor was so perfunctory in the 2014 book. Ooh, you can use martial weapons, medium armor, and shields. Ooh, you get Extra Attack at sixth level. Ooh, you can use your Bardic Inspiration for damage or AC bonuses. Whoo. Now it's like, DO YOU WANT TO USE A CANTRIP AS PART OF YOUR EXTRA ATTACK?! DO YOU WANT TO BE A DEVASTATING WHIRLWIND OF ARCANE CARNAGE?! COLLEGE OF VALOR IS THE CHOICE FOR YOU!!! 😂
College of Dance homebrew improvement. 1. Bard gets extra attack. 2. Bard gets extra 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them. 3. Players holding an inspiration dice get a bonus 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them. The idea is to get people dancing around the battlefield.
I think the same. No need for booming blade or eldritch adept. Magic Initiate (Druid) is the way to go. On the first round you cast bardic inspiration with your bonus action and conjure Fount of Moonlight. In the second round Shillelagh as a bonus action, the first attack is Shillelagh + True Strike and the second attack with Shillelagh. You add the Fount of Moonlight bonus and you are a full bard with 19 AC and do damage on par with some martial classes. My DM doesn't allow multiclassing but will let you choose the origin feat. I'll be a human for Magic Initiate (druid) and Magic Initiate (wizard) to add Shield or Find Familiar to give you advantage for the first attack (Shillelagh + True Strike). I think you want at level 4 War Caster and +2 in Charisma at level 8. By the time you access Polearm Master at level 12, it's too late because it competes with Battle Magic at level 14.
I think that the dance bard will struggle to effectively use their unarmed strikes due to being squishy and not getting extra attack, but they might be able to get some use out of the non-damage options. Specifically that can shove or grapple an ally. It is a decent little bit of added movement as you literally dance your friends around the battlefield. It is somewhat niche, but a lot better than hanging out in melee.
I love Dancer Bard, currently in a short campaign lvl 15 and I took Tenser's transformation from magical secrets and the DM ruled that it works with unarmed strikes too, so now I am attacking 3 times a turn with an advantage for 9d12 +15 and if an enemy ends their turn in melee I get a 4th attack, of course, it's not sustained damage because of Bardic Inspiration but it's funny as hell
Playing the Glamour Bard and so far liking it though only just reached Level 6. That being said, being able to help allies manoeuvre as well as charming/ frightening enemies can prove to be pretty useful.
13:08 yes please, let me grapple the evil lich into a tango. I have been plaing a valor bard/warlock multiclass for a couple of years and I have a blast, love to see it can still work as good
I played 3 sessions with a halfling college of dance bard named Xavier Finn (after my godson) and I had a lot of fun playing him. He was unfortunately killed off when after I believed a competition the party was competing in was rigged I punched the host of the game in the diaphragm. Turned out she was a noble, it was her birthday AND she was a path of the beast Barbarian. She challenged me to a duel, I didn’t do any damage because the way to win was to either kill or knock out the opponent or knock the opponent out of the arena. Not wanting to kill her, I chose to attempt banishment (I was level 9 so I had a few attempts at it, she just kept succeeding her saves). I lost but survived but something cast soul cage on me.
I think with the dance bard if you take druid magic initiate with thornwhip to get people closer to you and primal savagery if they are already in melee range you could reliably hit your bonus action attack do decent enough damage while being a good bard pick up elemental adapt at level 4 and when you are concentrating on a spell your unarmed defense is going to really help out. I think there is definitely enough here , I don't think the extra attack is necessary, the thing I think it's missing is advantage on concentration checks, being a melee spell caster, I think this would have brought them to the next level
One of the only bards I’ve wanted to play is a dwarven valor bard named Knox Beatstone who uses bludgeoning weapons (hammers and clubs) as percussion instruments to play the rhythm of battle
I just *love* the whisper bard. Multiclass with a soul knife or a Swashbuckler rogue for ungodly amounts of combined utility and skill proficiency, as well as having sneak attack damage that nearly scales with you if you spend your inspiration, and levels as a full spellcaster.
Capoeira is the best theme for a dance bard. It's a martial art disguised as a dance (It was a way of enslaved people to defend themselves and not be forbidden to practice the capoeira). It's very mobile but it's actually strong and can be dangerous. You can even draw more on the African mythology theme and draw your power from orishas and call your bardic inspirations as axé (energy, spirit). Your instrument can be the berimbau or the atabaque.
I really really like the idea of a dance bard and have always thought I could just do it as a flavor with a 2014 bard. I think I would skip out on this version of dancing bard to just multiclass a bard monk tbh
Regarding my other comment, perhaps the dance bard would of been better if it was more like dancers in rpgs where you dancing will allow your allies to attack on your turn. Similar to the Commander strike maneuver where it uses one of your attack actions and your allies reaction. Then certain dances can do different things such as temp HP or allowing an ally to use their reaction to move half their movement without provoking opportunity attacks.
I’m 💯doing a boot leg ranger. My proficiency bonuses are going in to ranger traits like investigation and survival. As weapon longbow as weapon. And to keep on theme you can select more of your spells from the Druid list. Or go all ASOIAF on it and say your your magic comes form praying to the old goods of tree, river and rock. Pitch: Old grizzled Ranger, when he was younger he wanted to be a musician but life never turns out the way you want it to. Bardic inspiration as Singing na. That’s him just him giving life advice, “I have seen that combat style before just duck” or “You can tell people are lying by how there eyes twitch”. Magical secrets? Na he just met wizard once and the wizard got really drunk and spilled the beens. Dam it the more I think of this the more cool stuff I come up with. This comment is getting edited to hell.
Talking about how the Valor Bard is eating the Dance Bard's lunch, reminds me of a discussion I had with my players, also influenced by Baldur's Gate 3... The Valor Bard is doing what I would want from Ranger better than Ranger is 😝
Another issue with dance bard is that it's best bardic inspiration use, giving everyone initiative boost, doesn't even work with the 3rd level feature to give you an unarmed strike since it's not part of an action, bonus action, or reaction.
Admittedly I’m biased but I’ve been wanting a subclass for Monk like college of dance for a long time (based on capoeira). Mechanically I wonder if it wouldn’t be better that way
I wish dance bard had options for exotic weapons like whips/ Ribbons, Rings, or Batons, then had special battlefield control mechanisms attached to them.
I just started playing a bard that dances, but since she dances with scimitars or ribbons I made her a Swords Bard (2 weapon fighting style) and it seems a better fit. I may ask my DM to allow me to trade medium armor proficiency for unarmored defense, that's the only thing lacking from my vision of the character. Swords Bard is faster (as an individual), you get extra attack, and the flourishes work better for me than an unarmed strike.
The lore bards may not have as many ridiculous combos, but I feel like magical secrets is often used to fill in gaps in your party. Your party doesn’t have a blaster? Take lightning bolt or fireball. Your party doesn’t have a cleric? Well now your bard has spirit guardians. Your party needs someone with counterspell? You can have counterspell at level 6.
We are playing an Arabian themed campaign, legacy of fire. The dance bard (female air Goliath) is by far the most versatile character in the group. A tier all the way
I think you underestimated the dance bards influence on partywide initiative rolls starting at level 6. This is a B tier support build if many party members have alert and a way to get advantage on initiative rolls. In a 4 round combat, if the party goes first the monsters only get 3 rounds.
Dance Bard should have the option for a melee attack as a bonus action when using the magic action. That alone would have brought it up to high B or low A
Disagree when it comes to Dance Bard. It's not trying to be a transformative subclass like Valor or Swords. It plays like a standard Bard that also has a bit of melee attacking peppered in. And that Initiative boost to the whole party is great.
I remember when Dance Bard was introduced in the One DnD UA and people freaked out because suddenly Bard was out Monk-ing the Monk, but I’m having a hard time remembering what the arguments were other than the fact that Bard unarmed strike damage advances faster than a Monk’s damage, but next to multiple extra strikes and all monk weapons getting stronger together with unarmed damage… I just don’t remember what the fuss was about. Regardless, I agree: Flavor win, mechanical fail.
You could do a ranged damage dealer Valor Bard dual wielding hand crossbow and eldritch blasting with agonzing and repelling blast through a spike growth
For the Dance bard, there could have been a boost if they just got the ability to bonus action strike. And if they spend a bardic dice they get a second. A bard flurry of blows.
My idea for the Valor bard is to pull out a great axe as a guitar Wheras for the dance bard, taking a level in monk to make a character inspired by Bayonetta
Maybe I'm overvaluing the benefit, but the College of Glamour Beguiling Magic gives someone the Charmed condition. This isn't the spell, and the charmed condition from beguiling magic doesn't end or even get a save if you attack them. So you can just start wailing on them and they can't fight back.
With the dance bard, you have an ultimate support character who is a full spell caster and also half monk subclass. It’s fine, but not overwhelming. B for me.
I think the same. No need for booming blade or eldritch adept. Magic Initiate (Druid) is the way to go. On the first round you cast bardic inspiration with your bonus action and conjure Fount of Moonlight. In the second round Shillelagh as a bonus action, the first attack is Shillelagh + True Strike and the second attack with Shillelagh. You add the Fount of Moonlight bonus and you are a full bard with 19 AC and do damage on par with some martial classes. My DM doesn't allow multiclassing but will let you choose the origin feat. I'll be a human for Magic Initiate (druid) and Magic Initiate (wizard) to add Shield or Find Familiar to give you advantage for the first attack (Shillelagh + True Strike). I think you want at level 4 War Caster and +2 in Charisma at level 8. By the time you access Polearm Master at level 12, it's too late because it competes with Battle Magic at level 14.
Ooh I want to make a college of valor bard that’s loosely based off of Yondu from Guardians of the Galaxy. They would use whistling as their spellcasting focus and, if the DM was cool with it, flavor shooting arrows with a short bow as launching arrows out of their quiver with their magical whistle 😗
The Dancing punches are a misdirect. That's not the main feature of the subclass, that's a bonus and viable backup attack to casting. The main draw of the subclass is sharing defense and movement, and almost guaranteeing the entire party goes first. It still needs a buff of some kind, but I don't think Extra Attack is the way to go. As is, this class would pair well with a frontliner with Sentinel, or act as a protector of the backfires. B tier for me.
I think the Mantle of Inspiration is one of the most underrated abilities to all bard subclasses. For the price of a single bardic inspiration, you can potentially reposition your entire party. It costs a reaction, but its movement and THP, that is on par with the amount of thp a twilight cleric can give out per short rest.
Thisone feature has turned the tides of entire combats with that repositioning alone in my games.
With how the AOE concentration spells (ie spirit guardians, conjure woodland beings, etc.) work now, you can reliably get your party to trigger multiple sources of damage each round.
It's the type of ability that's hard to quantify I white rooms. At a table with switched on players is S tier, at your average table where the rogue still doesn't know how sneak attack works in tier 3 of play it's marginal at best
Agreed! I can't tell you how many times my party has made room for an incoming friendly AOE attack, or gotten juuuuust enough THP to withstand an attack that normally would have put them on death saves! While the role isn't for everyone, I think Glamour Bards are just so good at battlefield control and PHB24 has really only made that better. Being able to potentially cast a spell, use beguiling magic to charm or frighten a key mob, AND THEN reposition the entire party and heal them up 2d8/2d12, is just an awesome amount of stuff to do on a turn.
I'm 4 sessions in on a College of Dance Bard and I'm having a blast. She is a Drow who was trafficked to a big city as a child and sold into an indentured servitude of sorts. When I pick her spells, instead of just grabbing all the meta gaming selections, I've been selecting options that are primarily Enchantment/Illusion focused, and can in some way be traced back to "dance" as her art form. Got a DM that rewards story telling over power gaming so that helps. 10/10 would recommend the Dancer.
That's my kind of DM! 👍
Sounds like a DM who would allow your special *Unarmed Strike* to use *Dex* for its *Grapple/Shove DC* _(or at least use _*_Str_*_ for its damage)._ Even if your DM insists on rules as written, you can still use *Str* for decent *Unarmed Strike* damage if you either start as a *Fighter* _(for the _*_Unarmed Fighting_*_ style feat),_ take the *Tavern Brawler* origin feat, or choose a *species* with natural weapons _(e.g. Satyr)._
Upcasting *Cloud of Daggers* after succesfully *Grappling* as a Bonus Action or Reaction, you can deal great single-target damage without ever using your *spell save DC,* hence, letting you take the *Grappler feat* and max out *Dex* _(or Str)._ You delay increasing your *Cha,* but *Font of Inspiration* now lets you expend spell slots on additional uses of *Bardic Inspiration* _(it's resource intensive if you spam Bardic Inspiration, but at least it also benefits your allies)._
*Grappling* is effective with the updates to spells like *Cloud of Daggers,* which now deal damage both when *cast* _and_ when a creature *ends its turn* in the area of effect. If the creature doesn't escape your Grapple, it will keep taking damage twice per round, as long as you use your movement to *drag* the Grappled creature out of the Cube and back in, to keep triggering the damage on *your turn* as well _(please discuss with your table whether you all find this strategy fun, or a silly exploit of the rules)._
That's cool for you and all, but...
That just shows the strength of a good DM and willingness to play, not the strength of the subclass.
When I think of a dance bard, all I can think of is a capoeira fighter. It's so absolutely fitting I can't believe it's not on purpose
It was funny cuz i was thinking of the pokemon that fights like that.
Every bard should have a Brazilian accent
I think the Haka would be fun to play. Just posting up in front of your enemies performing the Haka to intimidate them AND inspire your allies.
@@brianparsons6129 Isn't that a barbarian? 😛
Only the Strong
I think the dance bard’s unarmed attack is a distraction to what it’s actually good at: defending themselves and the party. The attack is just a fun little bonus.
Yeah really disagree with their ranking of Dance Bard, who is in my opinion the strongest subclass. Particularly when comparing with the Valor Bard they put in S tier.
The unarmed attack is just a bonus for flavour, it’s not where the strength of the subclass is.
Tandem footwork at level 6 is insane. Do you know what the best way to do damage and avoid damage ? It’s to go first. Tandem footwork is a massive boost to initiative party wide. Even better if someone as the Alert feat so you can have incredible control on who go first.
With unarmed defence you have around the same AC as a Valor Bard. And at level 14 you have an upgraded version of one of the strongest defensive ability in the game : evasion.
Put your bard next to a squishy and said squishy has protection against melee enemy thanks to Inspiring movement and protection against AoE attacks with leading evasion.
@@3558I think everyone overlooks general feats and the potential that dance bard has with it , when you take a general feat that bumbs charisma not only is your spell mod going up but so is your ac, and when you bump Dex not only are you bumping your AC but now your unarmed strikes potentially hits harder depending on what your new mod is for dex on top of getting whatever the feat does , I think dance bards get the most from taking general feats in the game now
Dance is by far the weakest bard subclass in the phb, the only good feature it has is the initiative boost to whole party, everything else is just meh. It's like they just forgot after 3rd level that this was supposed to be the unarmed combat subclass, as they get no further features to improve their pseudo monk start, making the whole subclass just really unorganized mess. Do you want to be the combat bard? Valor does that better. Do you want to be the support bard? Glamour does that better.
I could see an argument for it being in B tier but I really feel like people are overstating the potency of this subclass.
Unarmored Defense is generally not considered a great feature. It's better than light armor which is the default armor for bards and at higher levels medium armor but for most levels is worse than light armor+shield & heavy armor and is worse than medium armor+shield as well as heavy + shield. Dance Virtuoso, Agile Strikes, & Bardic Damage are novelty features.
Inspiring Movement is decent, better with area of effect spells. Leading Evasion is similarly decent. It's evasion but 7 levels later in exchange for a slight buff (can help as many allies as they want with dex saving throws but it has to hit both of you and them and they have to be within 5 feet of you).
Standout feature is absolutely Tandem Footwork
@@Klaital1 being the weakest bard doesn't make it weak, yes you want to plan this out but you get a sharable evasion a level earlier than monk or rogue. Plus probably the most usable unarmored defense I still think that this is a strong B ranked subclass with the right build you can really get a kick out of playing this, one really stupid build option is making a pseudo avatar build taking elemental adapt 4 times to bypass resistance against your elemental spells all while making out your spell casting mod and upping your ac and if you play human and take magic initiate twice you really up your spell and cantrip options. And you can still have fun with a character that isn't the best as long as you aren't hindering your party it should be fine
I feel like y'all shortchanged the Dance Bard by barely talking about it's very good support abilities. Being able to give a huge boost to your parties' initiative and give Evasion to people that don't have it is very powerful.
To recall what Monty & Kelly gave to the Bard Subclasses for D&D 5e 2014 :
College of Glamour : B
College of Lore : S
College of Valour : B
Thank you kindly
I actually wonder why they changed their ranking for Glamour & Valor subclass.
Especially there are very minimal changes to glamour bard.
I love the new dance bard! I’m playing a wood elf who races in the roller derby and the subclass fits it so well. I crank my speed way up and just zoom around the battlefield and whenever someone catches up to me I elbow them in the face and keep skating
🤣😂🤣
Skaters gonna skate.
I've been a primary bard player for a long time. I think that dance bard isn't made to be a melee combatant. Its made to be a support caster with melee capabilities. At the end of the day Bard is supposed to be a jack of all trades. Its reaction to move and the ability to add bardic inspiration to initiative i think is much more understated. Especially since you can get unarmed strikes as a reaction without provoning Aoo.
Its incredibly strong for level 1-4 in damage, by the time you reach level 5 when everyone gets extra attack you will probably be focusing more on spells anyways. Not to mention you can get a additional bardic off of spell slots now so you can do it more often.
Exactly, Dance bard is a great Full caster that can kinda do it all but is still a full caster first. The support it provides is wonderful, and it is great at dealing with fringe enemies or mobs that swarm the truly squishy teammates. Like your Barb is fighting the Troll, but a couple goblins are moving towards your wizard, you are the perfect character to just step between those and try to get the goblins to attack you and your high AC/melee attacks vs your 12 AC Wizard with 4 HP lol. Or if there are ranged units on a wall or ridge, you bamf up there and you aren't worried being in melee with average enemies. Could also be very good at kiting slower creatures with the reaction movement. Idk how you look at this subclass and think it's supposed to be in melee most or all of the time. Plus, Bards have an AMAZING spell list, be a caster
I play a Bard Dancer and i totaly agree here.
I cast conjure minor Elemental when i have just little room and have to go in melee. Now my damage goes up and i make more damage in melee then our Fighter 😅
But when i have room for movement and my spells, and Support all of my allies and then go otto's irresistible dance to stop the BBEG and to see/hear a black Dragon attempt to do the shuffle was golden.
So yeah the Dancer is the full caster with the Option to go melee but the defence as a full Caster and you will mostly be near other casters in your group the evasion Bonus will Trigger often.
Jack of all trades should be a skill floor though, not the ceiling. Forcing every subclass to adhere to a lower power level just drags down really great ideas. I'd rather have a dancey, punchy, spellcasty boy rather than a fairly good support with a mean right hook. I think the part I hate is I can *feel* the game designers trying to get ahead of the players who are too rigid and inflexible who would complain or dms who like to nerf classes which leads to complaints from players
I agree. It's a supporter and controller who can survive in melee, and safely get out of melee. If you're playing it like how Monty and Kelly suggest, as a frontline melee bard, I would say it's a D. I think B is appropriate. Anything dance can do, lore and glamour can probably do better in most circumstances, but dance would be amazing in a party that wants extra mobility or wants better initiative order.
@@GoldsteinNathaniel Sure, Lore is amazing, and Glamour has a lot of potential. The unarmed strike is a trap to build around. It will be nice to have on occasion, but the Dance Bard should be viewed as non-squishy caster as opposed to a frontliner or even Gish. I do think it can work as a bit of an off tank. Meaning like say you have a 4 man party, something like a Barbarian/Paladin/Wizard/Dance Bard, or any balanced party with 2 frontliners and 2 backliners or 1 frontliner and 3 backliners, that Dance Bard is going to be that Wizard's best friend when those mobs slip past the tanks, or the wizard is targeted with an AOE.
Fun fact about the Valor bard's martial training and true strike. Both don't specify that the weapon has to be a melee weapon, so you could use a longbow or pistol. Imagine a Valor bard with two pistols who, in the words of the late Coolio, is laughing and blasting.
I think you look at the Dance Bard as a slippery full caster rather than a Monk/Bard Hybrid. You're hard to pin down with your reaction movement/attack. It is not gonna be hard to have an 18+ AC for most of your career with the best Unarmored defense in the game, and that's before items/spells. You're hard to take out with AOE and in those instances where you're all clumped up against say a fireball/Lightning Bolt/etc, you cut that damage in half. And getting the party going first in combat is HUGE most of the time. This is a great subclass for being that backline or fringe melee combatant where you don't want to be talking on the biggest meanest thing in melee, but if there are mobs swarming your wizard/sorcerer, you can kinda help kite those mobs with your high AC. Or that ridge that has an archer or two and its tricky to land spells on them, Bard has no problem teleporting up there and you can handle a couple ranged enemies in close quarters. This is very much a subclass you want to pick and choose when you are in melee, but you should still be behaving like a full caster most of the time.
yeah it's a very slippery support bard that can punch people when they need to
*Level 8+* is *_"most of your career"_* in exactly which campaign? The unpopular *Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage* is the only published campaign that I can think of. In contrast, *Valor* Bard has 18+ AC from *level 3,* which reasonably qualifies as *_"most of your career"._*
The *_"best Unarmored defense in the game"_* is undoubtedly *Draconic Resilience,* since it's compatible with the +2 bonus from *Shields.* At *level 4,* *Draconic Sorcerers* can take the *Lightly Armored* feat to match the 19 AC of a *Valor* Bard in *Half Plate* _(or pick up _*_traning with Shields_*_ through a _*_Fighter dip_*_ if you want to increase Cha before Dex)._ 4 levels in both *Draconic Sorcerer* and *Valor* Bard is another way to get to 20 AC by *level 8* _(though it's even more silly than taking the _*_Lightly Armored_*_ feat)._
@@SortKaffe Say another Unarmored Defense is better but then requires a bad feat, a MC and a shield? seriously dude? asinine that you even wasted the time to type that part and wasted my time by having me read that 🤣.
But I'll admit I did do part of my math wrong that someone who actually made sense with their comment pointed out elsewhere. I was capping Medium armor early at 13+2(Dex MAX) +2 shield for 17 vs a 17 AC a Dance Bard can easily have at 4 with no gear or anything else.
I genuinely, and I think nearly everyone else, doesn't care what official campaigns say their built for. I've never played an official campaign, nor do I know a single person who has. Even DnD youtubers hardly play official campaigns. I've played at 3 different tables and our campaigns tend to end around 14-17th level. We are working on a campaign to 20 right now. So yeah from 8 and on, Dance Bard could pretty reasonably have a comparable AC to the Valor Bard and they don't need gear or a crappy feat to do it. And thats 9ish levels where they are even or in favor of Dance vs 7ish levels where the Valor has the edge. so yeah most
Yes, that. Dance bard is great for positioning and control. I personally think that centering it around unarmed strike is a trap.
@@GoldsteinNathaniel 100000% agree, the unarmed strike is nice, your bard can never be disarmed, but you shouldn't build around it. I'd really only use that when I get the free strike from giving BIs or if I'm fighting like archer mobs and getting in close, I can negate their weapons while still doing most of my other Bard stuff. You could take it away entirely and honestly my opinion about the subclass would hardly change at all.
Part of why i think Valor is a bit of a trap too (I still think it is a very good subclass). adding BI to one attack is, is often a terrible use of a BI. Especially for a subclass that almost makes you want to make CHA secondary giving you fewer BIs
It seems like the Dance Bard needs something for Agile Strikes like "When you expend a use of Bardic Inspiration or cast an Abjuration or Enchantment Bard spell as part of an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction, you can make one Unarmed Strike as part of that action, Bonus Action, or Reaction."
oh I like that a *lot*
Dance bards are full casters who can realistically have 20 AC without any spells or magic items, can add bonuses to initiative and not only evade fireballs, but help the clumsy and squishy wizard avoid getting roasted. Easy a B+.
Yeah, it's masquerading as an unarmed attacker, but I feel like the average Dance Bard will only be punching when they hand out inspiration
Yeah, I think you look at the class as a slippery full caster rather than a monk/Bard Hybrid. You're hard to pin down with your reaction movement/attack. As you said, not gonna be hard to have an 18+ AC for most of your career with the best Unarmored defense in the game, and that's before items/spells. You're hard to take out with AOE and in those instances where you're all clumped up against say a fireball/Lightning Bolt/etc, you cut that damage in half. And getting the party going first in combat is HUGE most of the time. This is a great subclass for being that backline or fringe melee combatant where you don't want to be talking on the biggest meanest thing in melee, but if there are mobs swarming your wizard/sorcerer, you can kinda help kite those mobs with your high AC. Or that ridge that has an archer or two and its tricky to land spells on them, Bard has no problem teleporting up there and you can handle a couple ranged enemies in close quarters. This is very much a subclass you want to pick and choose when you are in melee. But you should still be behaving like a full caster most of the time. 100% agree.
Yep it's the Bladesinger AC problem in a different shell. A caster subclass that buffs your defensive capabilities without hurting you core abilities is never going to be bad. The only things bringing it down are the strongest features don't come till later levels. Extra attack would push it solidly into A.
@@robertpower8374 Their strongest features are at 3 and 6, how is that later levels? Valor Bard is the one I'd be arguing have their best feature come on late
Valor bard also gets the extra AC from medium armor and shield
I think the focus on the bard's unarmed strike was too narrow, Dudes. They get other features and abilities too. They get the unarmoured defense, and with two stats they're most likely going to focus on anyways, they grant massive initiative buffs to their whole party, they get Evasion for themselves and allies withing 5 feet of them, which if they're frontlining they likely have at least one or two most often. I also think their unarmed strikes fall away from being something they'd consider for primary attacks by the time other classes get extra attack, so the bardic inspiration punch is probably the most it'll really get used, they'll likely start sticking with spells by then because they do better damage or have a bigger influence on the battle. I think it's a B tier already. Besides, Giving it extra attack would take away from the Valor bard and the monk. If you really want an extra attack on a dance bar take a 5 level dip into another class.
Agreed. The initiative bump for the party may be the best alternative use of inspiration in the game. It's a huge boost to your party!
Once again only focused on the 5% more dpr rather than things that actually matter to most players like being three times harder to kill than another Bard, or moving your entire party around for free.
I think the thing about Dance Bards is that unlike Monks Bards have their spellcasting to fall back on. Monks get the martial extras but Bards get the support extras. You’re not going to want to be fighting exclusively as a dance bard you’re going to be moving up to an enemy, punching an enemy, and then moving away so you’re still not on the front lines.
As much as I agree that the Dance Bard feels like it's missing the Extra Attack class feature (and Dex grappling isn't a monk only), I feel like you guys are completely skipping over the level 6 features of the Bard. Adding your Bardic Inspiration to pretty much every Initative check is amazing (and if you are in melee range when combat starts, you get to kick someone in the mouth whenrolling initiative!), and the off-turn movement power of your ability is AMAZING. Seriously, I know it requires you to spend a reaction and a Bardic Inspiration Die to use the ability, but letting your allies move 10/15ft (or more if they are a Monk) when it's the enemy's turn gives you so much flexibility and power in combat to help shift your allies into the best possible position.
It should be a B-Tier easily, with an Extra Attack or Dex Grapple/Prone version, being A-Tier.
The Dudes got caught up in judging it like it was a melee class. It is a full support caster and a subclass that is about support more than damage. I think if you use the Dance Bard as a backline caster who can tank for the true squishies when those mobs surprise you or get around your tanks, then you are gonna have a lot of fun.
No you don't get to make an unarmed strike when you roll initative, because that isn't part of an action, bonus action, or reaction.
@@Klaital1 Ah, fair enough. Wasn't really important, just thought that might've been an interesting interaction
@@Klaital1 Oh huh, a shame. I think I would ask the DM, as its a very minor boon that would be hilarious.
@@taylorsmith9197All bards are support full casters. They're not being reviewed in a vacuum or compared to other classes. Only to other bards.
I believe the College of Dance is worth more than a C. It is a new class and VERY different from the rest, so people are not seeing its full potential compared to already known and seen other classes. Additionally, there was no conversation about spells that could suit the Dance Bard. Just like the monk, it is a complex class that it has more potential in the fine details.
Few details that comes to mind:
1) you CAN grapple someone. And if they end your turn still grappled, you can automatically use your reaction and move both of you even further.
2) considering you can move at other people's turn means you can re-apply some emanation spells like spirit guardians.
3) while id say the 14th level feat isnt all that good for that level, it makes the dance bard an excellent bodyguard. They have their spells like a bard, they can give evasion to a fragile class and if the enemy gets near them, they can just use their reaction to move both of them out of harm.
I think college of dance is basically the optimal way to play a bladesinger, but for bard. It's not meant to be an actual fight class, it's just a caster with good AC and ability to move out of melee combat while doing a bit of supplemental damage. The only reason it doesn't have extra attack is because they specifically tried to keep you from thinking of it as a martial character, unlike the Bladesinger which people have to try so hard to make it as good in melee as actual martials. It's not a bard that likes melee combat, like yall said we already have that. It's a bard that's good at not getting stuck in melee and good at not getting hit.
Perfect timing, got something to listen to do while I prep lunch.
Enjoy!
On the Dance Bard, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to the dudes wanting a full spell caster at level 5 dishing out 3 attacks a turn, and potentially trading one of those attacks for a cantrip. That's turning it into a kick Bard, not Dance. Seems like the design idea was the option to get a little bonus damage from a dance flourish after casting a spell. If it's a weak subclass I'd much rather have more features based on dance, and not taekwondo.
Yup, it is a support full caster with an amazing spell list that is boosting team initiative, has the best unarmored defense in the game, can never be fully disarmed, you are slippery as all get out, and you get to dish out free decent unarmed strikes as a reaction and when you give out Bardic Inspiration. That sounds like an awesome support kit to me. Dont know why you need 2 attacks every turn.
@@taylorsmith9197 It's a reasonable support kit. The level 6 feature is excellent, but if it's a Support Bard then it's up against, Eloquence, Glamour, Lore and Creation. It's second or third tier against those.
If it's a Martial Bard then Swords and Valor have it beat.
It kinda just falls awkwardly between both camps being not as good as the other Subclasses at either choice.
Spellcasters are often looking for ways to weaponize their bonus actions, and the mobility support and reaction attacks on top of that makes me feel like Dance Bard will be very solid.
I think comparing the Dance and Valor Bards directly to each other is a bit unfair because the Valor Bard will always win in a damage scenario since that's what it's built for. I think the Dance Bard's primary focus is actually it's (admittedly deeper in levels) mobility features, and the one-off Unarmed Strike is just a bonus that happens some of the time when an enemy is on your ass.
Dance Bard isn't for being a melee puncher. Dance Bard is for the teamwide initiative boost and the "free" reaction disengage that also helps an ally at L6, and most importantly, shared evasion at L14.
Dance bard can benefit from extra attack obtained through spells like tenser's transformation and tasha's otherworldly guise. It was kinda wasted on most other gishes because they got extra attack anyway.
I also think C is pretty low for a subclass that gives massive initiative boosts to their entire party.
Dancer with TT sounds super spicy
Too bad fists don't have the nick property. This would be a pretty powerful build with 3 attacks under TT
@@jod8366 I'm just imagining a transformed Dancer Bard partnered up with the Fighter, both absolutely styling on the boss monster.
On the topic of Dance Bard, I don't think Extra Attacks is what they're missing.
I'd say that something like the Valor Bard feature where you would be able to add BI to your damage would've been nice here too, as it'd allow you to, for example, True Strike as an action, use BI for bonus damage, kick someone in the teeth, then give BI to someone as a Bonus action, kick someone in the teeth again.
As an alternative, something like the Defensive Flourish feature Swords Bards have could be nice.
On a side note, I feel like Inspiring Movement could've easily been a 3rd level feature alongside Dazzling Footwork.
Leading Evasion comes too late at level 14, but I'm not sure if it won't be too strong at 6th level alongside Tandem Footwork.
At level 14 you could have something that gives you more BI, just so you can slap more, again similar to what Swords Bards have, but different. Maybe spend a spell slot to regain X BI dice, akin to Sorcery Points. And as I'm writing this, I think that maybe this option is ok for 6th level.
All in all, I really like the concept and I'd definitely play one at level 6, because I love the mobility these features provide to the whole party.
One of my favorite things a YT channel does is separate the sections by title and you guys didn't do it for this whyyy? It makes it easer to come back and check info I wanted to
Playing a Dance Bard now, we started at 5th level, you can absolutely use a True Strike with dagger, then bonus action Bardic Attack(unarmed strike)
Technically that doesn't work due to hands not having the "light" property. Not that I think it is broken or anything.
@ it works on the Dance because when they give out Bardic inspiration, they get a bonus unarmed strike.
This makes me want to see Colby make a build that is a Bard/Monk multiclass that gives you that dancing flavor. I’m not an optimizer, but I bet there is something there with a Valor Bard/Kensei Monk that could do some fun things as a Sword Dancer
Bladesinger monk sounds more Colby if I'm honest.
@@nicka3697 I don’t disagree but he still does other things too lol
I think I disagree with your Dance Bard ranking. I think you guys focused too much on the raw damage output and less on how all of the abilities play with everything else the bard has to offer. On top of just higher AC than some bards and making your entire party go before the enemy, this bard will be spellcasting and essentially buffing the party while dealing decent chip damage all in one turn. You can cast slow, then bardic your fighter, than make a melee attack. I think you guys are thinking of the Dance bard in a more selfish "this bard should be dealing more damage" and not entertaining the potential of "this bard can do potentially a little bit of everything on their turn". I think it's more of a team player than a "let me solo her" subclass. Regardless, good video and good content. Keep up the good work
Totally agree on the flavoring part, why everyone always thinks bards are musicians?!? I introduce my College of Swords bard as a dancer. He dances around the battle field, cutting creatures, throwing daggers…
One of his morning routines is stretching and flexibility exercises. This one time our party entered a room where a cursed piano was playing a tune that caused an effect similar to Otto’s Irresistible Dance, there were people frantically dancing, people knocked on the floor from exhaustion, basically the entire mansion staff was collapsing on that room and I said I want to countercharm , the dm asked me “How you doing it?” and I responded, I wanna tap dance to a rhythm disrupting to the piano music, I’m dancing to the beat inside my head!
In a lot of ways I think that Glamour bard has now become the most complete Bard. It gives you huge party support that other Bards don't get access to, tons of control, and in the situations where you're dealing with mental immune creatures you can still focus on party buffing and support. It just FEELS the most like the archetype of a traditional bard.
man....when Kelly said summon a dancing pole, i was totally thinking of something else in my perv mind
I'm certain he was thinking what you were thinking. I definitely was anyway
20:41 I played a 2014 glamour bard, and that’s essentially what I did. At lower levels (6 and under), there were so many instances where I was able to help the party tank through encounters we should have run from.
As a side note, my bard was more of a youth minister type, who’s goal was spreading the gospel of his god, so I said Mantle of Inspiration was Lathandar answering his prayer for protection.
Never gonna tire of Monty pronouncing pattern as a three-syllable word.
Agreed! Pat-ter-in. Have we ever heard his Aluminum?
I dont think the dance bard shouldn't dip too far into just biting the Monk's features. Bards are already OP, they don't need to do every class better than their class. Soon Valor bards will get action surge, lore bard will get Druidic Shaping to just have wildshape, and then a death metal Bard that can Rage while casting and concentrating on spells.
What might work is giving the dance bard essentially a beefed up Bladesong from the blade singer. I don't like wizards, so I'm fine with that.
My ranking of these subclasses would be: Dance C, Lore B, Glamour S, and Valor A.
The extra attack feature of the valor bard lets him replace one weapon attack with a cantrip ... with a one level dip in warlock, that cantrip could be eldritch blast. So at level 11 you would fire three beams of eldritch blast, while still attacking two or three times with dual wielding (depending whether or not you want to use your bonus action) ... treantmonk made a video about that explaining that he will never again use conjure minor elemental in a build, unless it's been reigned in.
When I played BG3, I loved using Cutting Words because it could also be used to subtract from enemies' saving throws. It was like saying, 'Hey, you had better be paralyzed by this spell-it was expensive!
College of dance bard is a brilliant idea. It plays on all things a bard player wants to experience - you are very good in close combat, which, let’s face it, is always more interesting than just blasting an enemy from afar with weapons or spells. You feel really agile and graceful with the evasion and disengage tools you have, AND you still have all of the bard magic, support and social prowess.
I love the idea of bards not being limited to the musician/singer trope - f.e. I always allow my players to play as a non-standard bards, like a poet - using their calligraphy tools as spellcasting focus as they frantically scribble magic into existence, or an artist bard, literally sketching pictures into manifested spells.
The college of dance is a great step in this direction.
Initiative bonus to the entire patry is really powerfull. The punching when you spend inspiration is just a ribbon, the unarmored defence, bonus to party initiative and AOE evasion are the main things that make it really good. In a party that have a lot of casters, the bonus to initiative for the entire party make them the best bard to fit the party, so they worth at minimum a B.
With a the buffs to their allies (party initiative buff and party evasion later on) they are probably the best support bard.
Hey guys, bards can also use Font of Inspiration (level 5) to expend a spell slot and regain Bardic Inspiration. So, if you want to focus on combat as a Dance bard, rather than spells, you can burn spell slots to gain more Bardic Inspiration dice. So, use your action to attack, then bonus action to give away a die, and attack, and then reaction to kick them in the mouth and move away. Three attacks per round isn't bad, and you can do quite a few in the day as you gain levels.
The Dancing Bard, if used correctly could be an incredible choice for a player character. Imagine a troop of circus performers, consisting of Bards, Thieves and Monks. Of course a Barbarian "Strongman" and a Seer (Mage). This would be a whole lot of fun.😊
I think Dance Bard makes S tier with the 6th level initiative boost alone, and the 3rd level AC boost is great on top of that.
I don't think people realise just how strong a party wide initiative bonus is. This is competing for one of the best features in the game, up there with Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity and Aura of Protection. It's very, very good.
So this might be a colby build, but when I heard you talk about glamour bard, I heard, use all these features to prevent enemies from attacking me or my allies... I hear glamour bard tank build (perhaps using sanctuary or other spells to remain safe while enemies try unsuccessfully to attack you.) the spike for cowboy bebop. Now I have to look into this...
I feel like dance bard got a C because it's a bad unarmed attacker, when in reality you're supposed to use it to still be a bard, just a bard that kicks someone in the head as you bend and snap to cast the fear spell. Good AC (excellent at tables with more generous ability score generation), no bad feature levels, and you get to supplement what you're doing with some extra damage.
But they're being compared solely to other bards, so they all have those abilities.
The comparison is only between the things this bard does that the others don't, amd vice versa.
I would disagree actually. I think they were compared quite a bit to monks in the video.
And even compared just within bards, your analysis will land incorrectly if you assume the build's goal is to output competitive damage with unarmed strikes.
I agree that C is to low for Dancer. But compared to other Bards in Form of melee Valor beats Dancer and in Form of caster Lore and Glamour beat the Dancer.
BUT the Initiative Bonus on lvl 6 is such a good ability. Even better with the Alert Feat.
It should be a B@@vitaly2422
My Valor bard build is a Viking Skald who focuses on support and damage spells and records the adventures of his party in an effort to craft an incredible epic and be a famous poet
I’m going to do a College of Dance Bard that is based on 1994 Shawn Michaels with a beer gut and you will not hinder my enjoyment.
Professional wrestling was also the first thing that came to my mind, when thinking of the perform skill combined with unarmed attacks.
Sweet Chin Music, kick 'em in the mouth!
I think I'm cute! I know I'm sexy! I've got the looks! That drive the girls wild! I've got the moves! That really move 'em! I send chills up! Up and down their spines! I'm just a sexy bard!
My go to bard in 5e was a samurai warrior poet, using the scimitar as a katana with the College of Swords. Haikus in battle, quietly playing the biwa in camp or at the tavern. Good times.
My friends and I are starting Ruin of Vecna soon from Level 11 to 17 and I'm starting out as a multi class Valor Bard 7, Swashbuckler Rouge3 (Since it's still available on DND beyond with the updated rules) and one level of warlock with the pact of the blade invocation
I'm excited to use booming blade as one of my attacks, I'll essentially always be able to get sneak attack with rakish audacity and the nick weapon mastery on the rapier, so 2 d6 3 d8 with sneaky booming blade and thats just one of two attack, lock down the opponent and slip away with fancy footwork.
I can beef up the damage with Font of moonlight and hex as well if the situation calls for it or stay hidden and use a crossbow with steady aim and vicious mockery/true strike.
Battle inspiration along with the musician background to give heroic inspiration. Tons of skill proficiencies and expertise and I don't need to max out hex because CHA is my attacking modifier. Defensive duelist feat for reaction parry, shield and medium with at least a 16 in dex means I can safely Frontline especially with cunning action to get out of tough situations.
Not to mention slow, hypnotic pattern, major image and all the other dope spells. Plenty to keep me entertained until Magical secrets in a few levels.
Never played a bard at table, but BG3 turned me on to them in a big way. 10/10 class and I'm looking forward to all the Bard shenanigans moving forward; Valor is my top pick for my first 2024 campaign.
The one thing I can say however is this class really asks to have some gaps filled with multi-classing. Like alluded to during 38:00 multiclassing blows the lid off build diversity and really makes me reconsider going straight-class with a Bard, despite it offering a ton of value from the base class alone.
The glamour bard really turned the Cupid shuffle into a subclass lmao
My newest build is a Hell Knight, focusing on upcasting Searing Smite with 1 level in paladin and majority valor bard with a small dip into warlock 😊
I definitely want to try being a dance bard, and I think if you want to be more of a hybrid mage/fighter multi into monk for 5 lvls gets you extra atk, flurry of blows and subclass into the elemental monk to gain reach and elemental strikes. Plus still good access to bard spells, support features and dmg die for unarmed strikes reach d12
Playing a Valor Bard (in Drakkenheim!) and went magic initiate (druid) for Shillelagh. No level dip, just have to use a quartestaff/club.
Still mostly support focused, but can contribute in combat quite well too.
I was excited for the Dance Bard, but I did not expect the Valor Bard to come out swinging the way it has. Valor was so perfunctory in the 2014 book. Ooh, you can use martial weapons, medium armor, and shields. Ooh, you get Extra Attack at sixth level. Ooh, you can use your Bardic Inspiration for damage or AC bonuses. Whoo.
Now it's like, DO YOU WANT TO USE A CANTRIP AS PART OF YOUR EXTRA ATTACK?! DO YOU WANT TO BE A DEVASTATING WHIRLWIND OF ARCANE CARNAGE?! COLLEGE OF VALOR IS THE CHOICE FOR YOU!!! 😂
College of Dance homebrew improvement.
1. Bard gets extra attack.
2. Bard gets extra 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them.
3. Players holding an inspiration dice get a bonus 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them.
The idea is to get people dancing around the battlefield.
Valor bard is really good with shillelagh and polearm master. Like this all attacks uses charisma
I think the same. No need for booming blade or eldritch adept. Magic Initiate (Druid) is the way to go.
On the first round you cast bardic inspiration with your bonus action and conjure Fount of Moonlight.
In the second round Shillelagh as a bonus action, the first attack is Shillelagh + True Strike and the second attack with Shillelagh. You add the Fount of Moonlight bonus and you are a full bard with 19 AC and do damage on par with some martial classes.
My DM doesn't allow multiclassing but will let you choose the origin feat. I'll be a human for Magic Initiate (druid) and Magic Initiate (wizard) to add Shield or Find Familiar to give you advantage for the first attack (Shillelagh + True Strike).
I think you want at level 4 War Caster and +2 in Charisma at level 8. By the time you access Polearm Master at level 12, it's too late because it competes with Battle Magic at level 14.
I think that the dance bard will struggle to effectively use their unarmed strikes due to being squishy and not getting extra attack, but they might be able to get some use out of the non-damage options. Specifically that can shove or grapple an ally. It is a decent little bit of added movement as you literally dance your friends around the battlefield. It is somewhat niche, but a lot better than hanging out in melee.
I love Dancer Bard, currently in a short campaign lvl 15 and I took Tenser's transformation from magical secrets and the DM ruled that it works with unarmed strikes too, so now I am attacking 3 times a turn with an advantage for 9d12 +15 and if an enemy ends their turn in melee I get a 4th attack, of course, it's not sustained damage because of Bardic Inspiration but it's funny as hell
I'm a thundercaller bard with sonic build. I love that bardic attacks are considered other world attacks.
Playing the Glamour Bard and so far liking it though only just reached Level 6. That being said, being able to help allies manoeuvre as well as charming/ frightening enemies can prove to be pretty useful.
13:08 yes please, let me grapple the evil lich into a tango.
I have been plaing a valor bard/warlock multiclass for a couple of years and I have a blast, love to see it can still work as good
I played 3 sessions with a halfling college of dance bard named Xavier Finn (after my godson) and I had a lot of fun playing him. He was unfortunately killed off when after I believed a competition the party was competing in was rigged I punched the host of the game in the diaphragm. Turned out she was a noble, it was her birthday AND she was a path of the beast Barbarian. She challenged me to a duel, I didn’t do any damage because the way to win was to either kill or knock out the opponent or knock the opponent out of the arena. Not wanting to kill her, I chose to attempt banishment (I was level 9 so I had a few attempts at it, she just kept succeeding her saves). I lost but survived but something cast soul cage on me.
I think with the dance bard if you take druid magic initiate with thornwhip to get people closer to you and primal savagery if they are already in melee range you could reliably hit your bonus action attack do decent enough damage while being a good bard pick up elemental adapt at level 4 and when you are concentrating on a spell your unarmed defense is going to really help out. I think there is definitely enough here , I don't think the extra attack is necessary, the thing I think it's missing is advantage on concentration checks, being a melee spell caster, I think this would have brought them to the next level
One of the only bards I’ve wanted to play is a dwarven valor bard named Knox Beatstone who uses bludgeoning weapons (hammers and clubs) as percussion instruments to play the rhythm of battle
I just *love* the whisper bard. Multiclass with a soul knife or a Swashbuckler rogue for ungodly amounts of combined utility and skill proficiency, as well as having sneak attack damage that nearly scales with you if you spend your inspiration, and levels as a full spellcaster.
Capoeira is the best theme for a dance bard. It's a martial art disguised as a dance (It was a way of enslaved people to defend themselves and not be forbidden to practice the capoeira). It's very mobile but it's actually strong and can be dangerous. You can even draw more on the African mythology theme and draw your power from orishas and call your bardic inspirations as axé (energy, spirit). Your instrument can be the berimbau or the atabaque.
Valor bard sounds great but for me it would need weapon mysteries from a dip or feat. Good video.
Investing dex as valor bard < taking one level of warlock for pact of the blade
Valor Bard with rapier and shield can be flavored as a swashbuckler with a classic buckler shield
I love that you guys have done a complete 180 on the swords bard and that you’re not afraid to admit that you may have underestimated it.
I really really like the idea of a dance bard and have always thought I could just do it as a flavor with a 2014 bard. I think I would skip out on this version of dancing bard to just multiclass a bard monk tbh
I played in an all Bard game and the takes 2 to tango grapple made an appearance in that game a few times
Regarding my other comment, perhaps the dance bard would of been better if it was more like dancers in rpgs where you dancing will allow your allies to attack on your turn. Similar to the Commander strike maneuver where it uses one of your attack actions and your allies reaction.
Then certain dances can do different things such as temp HP or allowing an ally to use their reaction to move half their movement without provoking opportunity attacks.
Kelly, as far as your dance bard goes with the pole you wanted? Immovable Rod.
I’m 💯doing a boot leg ranger. My proficiency bonuses are going in to ranger traits like investigation and survival. As weapon longbow as weapon. And to keep on theme you can select more of your spells from the Druid list. Or go all ASOIAF on it and say your your magic comes form praying to the old goods of tree, river and rock.
Pitch:
Old grizzled Ranger, when he was younger he wanted to be a musician but life never turns out the way you want it to. Bardic inspiration as Singing na. That’s him just him giving life advice, “I have seen that combat style before just duck” or “You can tell people are lying by how there eyes twitch”. Magical secrets? Na he just met wizard once and the wizard got really drunk and spilled the beens.
Dam it the more I think of this the more cool stuff I come up with. This comment is getting edited to hell.
Talking about how the Valor Bard is eating the Dance Bard's lunch, reminds me of a discussion I had with my players, also influenced by Baldur's Gate 3... The Valor Bard is doing what I would want from Ranger better than Ranger is 😝
definitely right about Valor bard. Really hoping swords bard doesnt get left behind and gets that nifty extra attack in an update
Another issue with dance bard is that it's best bardic inspiration use, giving everyone initiative boost, doesn't even work with the 3rd level feature to give you an unarmed strike since it's not part of an action, bonus action, or reaction.
Admittedly I’m biased but I’ve been wanting a subclass for Monk like college of dance for a long time (based on capoeira). Mechanically I wonder if it wouldn’t be better that way
20:20 while it's only one person, there is a spell, it's called vortex warp and I love it to the end of the world.
I wish dance bard had options for exotic weapons like whips/ Ribbons, Rings, or Batons, then had special battlefield control mechanisms attached to them.
I just started playing a bard that dances, but since she dances with scimitars or ribbons I made her a Swords Bard (2 weapon fighting style) and it seems a better fit. I may ask my DM to allow me to trade medium armor proficiency for unarmored defense, that's the only thing lacking from my vision of the character. Swords Bard is faster (as an individual), you get extra attack, and the flourishes work better for me than an unarmed strike.
The lore bards may not have as many ridiculous combos, but I feel like magical secrets is often used to fill in gaps in your party. Your party doesn’t have a blaster? Take lightning bolt or fireball. Your party doesn’t have a cleric? Well now your bard has spirit guardians. Your party needs someone with counterspell? You can have counterspell at level 6.
We are playing an Arabian themed campaign, legacy of fire. The dance bard (female air Goliath) is by far the most versatile character in the group. A tier all the way
Also a human (magic initiate) valor bard that somehow gets weapon mastery(whip) can use a whip attack and frostray for slowing fun
You can also expend spell slots to get bardic inspiration at lvl 5.
I think you underestimated the dance bards influence on partywide initiative rolls starting at level 6. This is a B tier support build if many party members have alert and a way to get advantage on initiative rolls. In a 4 round combat, if the party goes first the monsters only get 3 rounds.
100% agree. Dance Bard isn't a melee combat Bard, it is a support Bard that doesn't mind getting into melee.
Dance Bard should have the option for a melee attack as a bonus action when using the magic action. That alone would have brought it up to high B or low A
Every time I hear of the College of Dance Bard, I think of Mike from Dazed And Confused. "I wanna dance!"
Disagree when it comes to Dance Bard. It's not trying to be a transformative subclass like Valor or Swords. It plays like a standard Bard that also has a bit of melee attacking peppered in. And that Initiative boost to the whole party is great.
I remember when Dance Bard was introduced in the One DnD UA and people freaked out because suddenly Bard was out Monk-ing the Monk, but I’m having a hard time remembering what the arguments were other than the fact that Bard unarmed strike damage advances faster than a Monk’s damage, but next to multiple extra strikes and all monk weapons getting stronger together with unarmed damage… I just don’t remember what the fuss was about.
Regardless, I agree: Flavor win, mechanical fail.
You could do a ranged damage dealer Valor Bard dual wielding hand crossbow and eldritch blasting with agonzing and repelling blast through a spike growth
For the Dance bard, there could have been a boost if they just got the ability to bonus action strike. And if they spend a bardic dice they get a second. A bard flurry of blows.
My idea for the Valor bard is to pull out a great axe as a guitar
Wheras for the dance bard, taking a level in monk to make a character inspired by Bayonetta
Maybe I'm overvaluing the benefit, but the College of Glamour Beguiling Magic gives someone the Charmed condition. This isn't the spell, and the charmed condition from beguiling magic doesn't end or even get a save if you attack them. So you can just start wailing on them and they can't fight back.
Monty, I love how you have come around to the sword bard. The D wasn’t the dudes finest moment. lol.
The reason Valour absolutely deserves the A, in my opinion, is that it also rocks house with a bow or a greatsword. It's a very well built subclass.
With the dance bard, you have an ultimate support character who is a full spell caster and also half monk subclass. It’s fine, but not overwhelming. B for me.
Defensive spin as a bonus action dodge would be good for the dance bard
Valor bard could also pick up Shillelagh to used charisma and is scales in damage
I think the same. No need for booming blade or eldritch adept. Magic Initiate (Druid) is the way to go.
On the first round you cast bardic inspiration with your bonus action and conjure Fount of Moonlight.
In the second round Shillelagh as a bonus action, the first attack is Shillelagh + True Strike and the second attack with Shillelagh. You add the Fount of Moonlight bonus and you are a full bard with 19 AC and do damage on par with some martial classes.
My DM doesn't allow multiclassing but will let you choose the origin feat. I'll be a human for Magic Initiate (druid) and Magic Initiate (wizard) to add Shield or Find Familiar to give you advantage for the first attack (Shillelagh + True Strike).
I think you want at level 4 War Caster and +2 in Charisma at level 8. By the time you access Polearm Master at level 12, it's too late because it competes with Battle Magic at level 14.
Ooh I want to make a college of valor bard that’s loosely based off of Yondu from Guardians of the Galaxy. They would use whistling as their spellcasting focus and, if the DM was cool with it, flavor shooting arrows with a short bow as launching arrows out of their quiver with their magical whistle 😗
The Dancing punches are a misdirect. That's not the main feature of the subclass, that's a bonus and viable backup attack to casting. The main draw of the subclass is sharing defense and movement, and almost guaranteeing the entire party goes first. It still needs a buff of some kind, but I don't think Extra Attack is the way to go. As is, this class would pair well with a frontliner with Sentinel, or act as a protector of the backfires. B tier for me.