Thank you for answering my question! I'm ramping up to make a small run of sketchbooks, and adding a conservation layer to the spine will be a great addition!
If you want to try it, then that's fine. But for a new book straight EVA would be my choice as it is stronger. Conservation layers are used in books that will get light use after the work is done. EVA can be reversed too, but most conservators don't like putting synthetic adhesives directly on old paper. DAS
You never fail to amaze with your wealth of knowledge and experience! Very good point on over-restoration, and I would definitely agree. With amateur binders, it seems to be because they don't know any better and don't have the proper experience. With professionals, it's because that's what they're taught. It's almost like that old saying, if you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed, but if you do read the newspaper you're misinformed. I've noticed though that this isn't necessarily exclusive to bookbinding, but rather plagues most of the professional restoration community in general. It's especially prevalent in the modern preservation of fine paintings, where it's very common to find professionals saturating a painting in numerous toxic chemicals. I'm still trying to figure out where this stuff comes from, and forgive me for saying so, but all I can conclude is that idiocy is generally a learned trait. By the way, really looking forward to your medieval binding series! Thanks so much for all that you do for the community, Darryn!
I think over restoration in the profession is mainly driven by book dealers, and maybe to a lesser extent institutions. And I totally understand that if you're a good bookbinder how can you turn down an important revenue stream. Maybe juggling is the only profession with less financial insecurity than bookbinding... But I hope a conversation starts about this before every pre-industrial revolution book has been "restored". Take care! Darryn
Until recent years on UA-cam videos, I had never heard anyone suggest that any of Elmer's glues were good for paper or that they were archival. I had heard that the wood glue would be the best for some reason. I have used School glue for sewing projects - temporarily holding fabric together with the expectation of it being washed out after stitching. I'm actually glad to hear that what I had heard was right. I grew up with Elmer's and PVA was a relative newcomer and not easily found and quite a bit more expensive in the States than other glues. The other thing that confuses me is the idea that masking tape should be integrated into projects. I have had many old projects with all kinds of tapes that failed miserably after some years and masking tape actually fell off from paper, crumbling glue and wrinkled tape. Drafting tape might be more archival, but it isn't as easy to find and is much more expensive. They are very different even though they look almost identical.
Thanks for the clarification on EVA. As you may have noticed in my other comments, I have just enough knowledge of chemistry to get myself in trouble and an unfortunate habit of speculating based on that, but I'd always rather be corrected than go on thinking something incorrect! Given that I want my work (mediocre though it may be thus far) to last, I may get some EVA next time I need to buy more glue. Actually, I'm definitely going to get some EVA, since I have some 19th-century books I'm planning to make cases for as soon as I get to my new apartment. Poor things were read a bit too regularly by a previous owner and also suffered some minor water damage (or as minor as water damage can be for a book, anyway).
Lovely video for we beginners. Thank you so much. I liked the Q & A format, as if one person has a question, there are usually many more with the same question.
Good point about corn starch paste. It is rather weak unless you add PVA to it. I found paste made from "strong" wheat flour (for bread) combined with PVA is great for laminating boards.
I was wondering about corn flour myself, but I might just do a test batch with my glutenfree flour and oat flour and see if that works any better. Yeah, I know saying glutenfree is a facepalm moment but since I am coeliac I don't dare risk having wheat flour stored and used in my household. 😊
You got me to finally order a nicer glue online, haha. I don't like shopping online, especially for something like a big tub of (frost sensitive, in swedish winter) glue, but you are right about going to a more trustworthy/specialized supplier rather than hoping whatever I can find is good enough. At least I don't have to order internationally just for some glue, sigh.
Very informative. Thank you for mentioning George Hill...been searching for a comprehensive bookbinding supplier here in Canada. Appreciate you sharing your bookbinding wisdom!
FYI: I've just started bookbinding this year but all I have available is a giant bottle of Mod Podge an overseas cousin bought for me a few years back and I can report that it's now producing a sour smell so I'm assuming some form of acid has been produced over the years, especially in the tropics even though I've kept it on the shelf that receives cool currents from the air-conditioning. I've been using it to learn bookbinding since it still works fine but ugh, the odor!
Thanks for this, I have found your videos inspirational. I am making up some books using A4 paper so it's going to have to be 'perfect bound' and I have some 'flexible PVA sold for book binding. The problem is the boards, unless I buy A4 and trim it down, and getting the dust jacket printed is going to involve a lot of waste. They won't be works of art but hopefully they will stand up long enough top be of use (they are instruction books for kids) and I only need a couple of dozen of them.
Check out my video on double fan binding. I think that is what you mean by Perfect Binding, which is a specific machine binding process. Are you following some instructions? I’d recommend the square back Bradel binding and sewn boards binding. Good luck.
Very interesting vedio. Please suggest an adhesive which can bond a set of 20 300Gsm sheets. The pasting will be done on all four sides leaving a small portion for removal of single sheet. Sheet should be removed easily with out tearing . I am referring to watercolour blocks available in the market. We have been using PVA glue to paste the book While removing the paper ,the paper tears and gets damaged.. Please suggest a solution which can bind the sheet and yet easily removable
I think I understand what you are after. There is a specific adhesive for this application called padding glue or adhesive. I use a brand called HAR. HAR printers padding compound.
At 13:24 and later glycerine gets a mention. Laura Young in Bookbinding and Conservation mentions a Glycerine Paste being a mix of glycerine solution in wheat paste. She says it has the advantage of creating almost no pull. She does cover some items on the recipe but not the proportion of glycerine paste to wheat paste. Have you had any experience with this? I'll spend the rest of the evening listening to your other videos to find out if you have mentioned it elsewhere. 🙂
Thanks for the great observation. This was one of my first bookbinding books, but I don't reference it much these days, and I certainly don't remember Glycerine paste. I both love and hate these old recipes. They go against the modern conservation minded approach of using as few additives as possible. But they were often addressing a problem. The problem is that sometimes they didn't actually do what they were supposed to. Or there is just a better way to do it - now anyway. I'm going to have to do some experiments to see if I can make a less pull adhesive. I think a no-pull adhesive is a Unicorn. But I also suspect it is a double edged sword. If it is real it might be because those big hydroxyl groups inhibit the absorption of water into the paper. But paste is great because it is considered a penetrating adhesives, and maybe the hydroxyl groups will turn it into a surface adhesive. And we have a good surface adhesive that puts less water into paper called PVA - which doesn't go off. But the other advantage of Glycerine is that it inhibits microbial activity. Some potential for a fun and pointless UA-cam video. Oh, she does have the ratios at the back - "in the same proportions as above". My paste is generally 5 parts water to 1 part starch and I take this to mean add 1 part glycerine. And I'm assuming it is by volume.
Amazing info many thanks. Do you please have any info on why cellulose paste is not considered archival? Also, do you have any info on Konnuaku powders? I understand that Konnuaku is a starch but I think it can be used as glue and also to give strength to papers. I also wanted to know if pure Konnyaku starch/powder is water-soluble after it has dried. Sorry to pick your brains and many thanks for your time. All the best Lou
Archival is a funny word that doesn't really have a formal definition. But methyl cellulose does get used in conservation work. There is a wide range of MC, and conservators will only use specific ones commonly used in the bookbinding/conversation world (for instance the MC sold by Talas in the US or the CMC sold by Hewits in the UK). I think any starch can be made into an adhesive. But they don't all have the same mechanical properties. I don't know anything about Konnuaku but it will almost certainly reactivate with water after dried. This is considered a feature of starch adhesive - it's reversible. Wheat or rice flour starch is so readily available it is easier just to stick with that. Good luck. DAS
Making my first hardback book thanks to you. I chose a laminated paper for cover and now have to glue the endsheets. I made some tests and PVA does not stick to the laminated surface, it adheres but you can peel it of easyly without any damage. Have tried with liquid silicone, the bond looks strong until it dries then it's useless. So I don't know what to do if I can't find othe option maybe I'll use some contact cement or superglue at the end. Do you have any sugestions. Thankyou.
@@DASBookbinding Thanks for answering. Yeah avoiding exotic is one way, but the cover looks pretty nice and I can print any design or picture I want on the laminated paper. Anyway I decided to use contact cement just on the border of the sheet that makes contact with the laminated paper and the rest just PVA, in order to avoid the diference in paper expansion I'm applying the PVA only to the cover hardboard and contac cement on the laminated paper and endsheet borders. I'm also making basically a 3 layered endsheet, one as part of the cover, some sort of inner cover, and as I'm making an all cardboard Z endsheet I'm pasting the waste sheet to isolate the final endsheet from the acidity of contact cement. Just the inner cover have contact cement all the other layers have PVA, hope this prevent any acid damage to reach the endsheet and the inside of the book. Time will tell. Thank you again.
Totally enjoyed the video. One question for when you do your video on paste. I cook wheat starch paste and no matter how I do it, stove top, microwave, long cooking or short I always end up with a layer of water over it when it cools. I have tried covering it, not covering it. Is this normal?
Hey Mister Darryn, this might seem like the question you did NOT expect about adhesives, but ... where does one purchase EVA in the United States? Is it called something else? Even Talas did not have it. All Google found for me were UK and AU where it was sold.
this may be a repeat of a previous question, if so I missed it. Can methyl cellulose be frozen after it has been mixed? Well of course it can be frozen, but will it be usable for book binding after it thaws?
Sorry, no idea. I'm sure MC powder is fine if it is accidentally frozen, unlike PVA. PVA is well know to not be usable after freezing and thus why Talas does not ship it in winter. And there is no reason to freeze MC once it is made up. It doesn't go off like starch paste. Mix some up and try? The change in PVA is obvious. I assume to would be the same with MC.
Laced on boards in 19th century English style studio.ua-cam.com/users/videoJ72Bhy2NwKA/edit I was making another version of this with false raised bands when my bindery was flooded last year. I'll get back to it eventually.
I occasionally use glue sticks when box-making. I use the trick Darryn has shown where an oversized sheet of manila is glued to the underside of the tray bottom to give a second reference surface for gluing the tray sides to, and I've had bad experiences with the tray bottom warping from moisture introduced by the adhesive. I've started using a glue stick to do this lamination as it is very dry, and get far less warping. I've not been making boxes long enough to comment on the long term durability. Wrt box-making, does anyone have any specific recommendations for a 'thick' PVA available in the UK? I've been using regular PVA and the lower tack can be very frustrating when making boxes.
Try putting some PVA in a container and leave the lid off but stir regularly to stop a skin forming. I find my glue pot gets fairly thick after a week or so and often add a bit of water to get it back to my preferred thickness.
Have you tried binding loose pages? If so, what is the best way to do this (might you have a video)? I have a lot of loose single sheets that I would like to turn into a book. I have experimented with this using PVA but it falls apart so I'm not sure if it's possible or if I am just not using the right technique (I'm not very experienced).
Watching you stitch while answering questions was great!
Thank you for answering my question! I'm ramping up to make a small run of sketchbooks, and adding a conservation layer to the spine will be a great addition!
If you want to try it, then that's fine. But for a new book straight EVA would be my choice as it is stronger. Conservation layers are used in books that will get light use after the work is done. EVA can be reversed too, but most conservators don't like putting synthetic adhesives directly on old paper. DAS
You never fail to amaze with your wealth of knowledge and experience! Very good point on over-restoration, and I would definitely agree. With amateur binders, it seems to be because they don't know any better and don't have the proper experience. With professionals, it's because that's what they're taught. It's almost like that old saying, if you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed, but if you do read the newspaper you're misinformed.
I've noticed though that this isn't necessarily exclusive to bookbinding, but rather plagues most of the professional restoration community in general. It's especially prevalent in the modern preservation of fine paintings, where it's very common to find professionals saturating a painting in numerous toxic chemicals. I'm still trying to figure out where this stuff comes from, and forgive me for saying so, but all I can conclude is that idiocy is generally a learned trait.
By the way, really looking forward to your medieval binding series! Thanks so much for all that you do for the community, Darryn!
I think over restoration in the profession is mainly driven by book dealers, and maybe to a lesser extent institutions. And I totally understand that if you're a good bookbinder how can you turn down an important revenue stream. Maybe juggling is the only profession with less financial insecurity than bookbinding... But I hope a conversation starts about this before every pre-industrial revolution book has been "restored". Take care! Darryn
Until recent years on UA-cam videos, I had never heard anyone suggest that any of Elmer's glues were good for paper or that they were archival. I had heard that the wood glue would be the best for some reason. I have used School glue for sewing projects - temporarily holding fabric together with the expectation of it being washed out after stitching. I'm actually glad to hear that what I had heard was right. I grew up with Elmer's and PVA was a relative newcomer and not easily found and quite a bit more expensive in the States than other glues. The other thing that confuses me is the idea that masking tape should be integrated into projects. I have had many old projects with all kinds of tapes that failed miserably after some years and masking tape actually fell off from paper, crumbling glue and wrinkled tape. Drafting tape might be more archival, but it isn't as easy to find and is much more expensive. They are very different even though they look almost identical.
Thanks for the clarification on EVA. As you may have noticed in my other comments, I have just enough knowledge of chemistry to get myself in trouble and an unfortunate habit of speculating based on that, but I'd always rather be corrected than go on thinking something incorrect!
Given that I want my work (mediocre though it may be thus far) to last, I may get some EVA next time I need to buy more glue. Actually, I'm definitely going to get some EVA, since I have some 19th-century books I'm planning to make cases for as soon as I get to my new apartment. Poor things were read a bit too regularly by a previous owner and also suffered some minor water damage (or as minor as water damage can be for a book, anyway).
Lovely video for we beginners. Thank you so much. I liked the Q & A format, as if one person has a question, there are usually many more with the same question.
Good point about corn starch paste. It is rather weak unless you add PVA to it. I found paste made from "strong" wheat flour (for bread) combined with PVA is great for laminating boards.
Wheat flour paste PVA mix is a powerful combination. DAS
I was wondering about corn flour myself, but I might just do a test batch with my glutenfree flour and oat flour and see if that works any better.
Yeah, I know saying glutenfree is a facepalm moment but since I am coeliac I don't dare risk having wheat flour stored and used in my household. 😊
The beauty of your smile at the end
I use 1/2" Leinuosen double sided tape; for both drummed bindings and tipped-in images, printed on luster photo papers.
You got me to finally order a nicer glue online, haha. I don't like shopping online, especially for something like a big tub of (frost sensitive, in swedish winter) glue, but you are right about going to a more trustworthy/specialized supplier rather than hoping whatever I can find is good enough. At least I don't have to order internationally just for some glue, sigh.
Thank you for this very helpful video. The aspect of repetition was fine as it helped to emphasise the points you made.
Thank you for answering my question on the different Jade PVA formulas. Cheers!
Very informative. Thank you for mentioning George Hill...been searching for a comprehensive bookbinding supplier here in Canada. Appreciate you sharing your bookbinding wisdom!
Thank you, Darryn, for this video and for addressing my question in it. This is an awesome series!
Thank you so much for answering my question! I'll definitely try your advice on my next project :))
Very helpful
FYI: I've just started bookbinding this year but all I have available is a giant bottle of Mod Podge an overseas cousin bought for me a few years back and I can report that it's now producing a sour smell so I'm assuming some form of acid has been produced over the years, especially in the tropics even though I've kept it on the shelf that receives cool currents from the air-conditioning. I've been using it to learn bookbinding since it still works fine but ugh, the odor!
Probably lactic acid from microbial action. Where in the tropics?
@@DASBookbinding Malaysia!
Thank you Darryn.
Loved this adhesive series
Thanks for this, I have found your videos inspirational. I am making up some books using A4 paper so it's going to have to be 'perfect bound' and I have some 'flexible PVA sold for book binding. The problem is the boards, unless I buy A4 and trim it down, and getting the dust jacket printed is going to involve a lot of waste. They won't be works of art but hopefully they will stand up long enough top be of use (they are instruction books for kids) and I only need a couple of dozen of them.
Check out my video on double fan binding. I think that is what you mean by Perfect Binding, which is a specific machine binding process. Are you following some instructions? I’d recommend the square back Bradel binding and sewn boards binding. Good luck.
@@DASBookbinding Thanks, yest the double-fan binding is the way I'll go. Thanks for putting all this work in, it is appreciated.
thank you
162 likes and 0 dislikes! Good job!
Very interesting vedio.
Please suggest an adhesive which can bond a set of 20 300Gsm sheets.
The pasting will be done on all four sides leaving a small portion for removal of single sheet.
Sheet should be removed easily with out tearing .
I am referring to watercolour blocks available in the market. We have been using PVA glue to paste the book
While removing the paper ,the paper tears and gets damaged..
Please suggest a solution which can bind the sheet and yet easily removable
I think I understand what you are after. There is a specific adhesive for this application called padding glue or adhesive. I use a brand called HAR. HAR printers padding compound.
At 13:24 and later glycerine gets a mention. Laura Young in Bookbinding and Conservation mentions a Glycerine Paste being a mix of glycerine solution in wheat paste. She says it has the advantage of creating almost no pull. She does cover some items on the recipe but not the proportion of glycerine paste to wheat paste. Have you had any experience with this? I'll spend the rest of the evening listening to your other videos to find out if you have mentioned it elsewhere.
🙂
Thanks for the great observation. This was one of my first bookbinding books, but I don't reference it much these days, and I certainly don't remember Glycerine paste. I both love and hate these old recipes. They go against the modern conservation minded approach of using as few additives as possible. But they were often addressing a problem. The problem is that sometimes they didn't actually do what they were supposed to. Or there is just a better way to do it - now anyway. I'm going to have to do some experiments to see if I can make a less pull adhesive. I think a no-pull adhesive is a Unicorn. But I also suspect it is a double edged sword. If it is real it might be because those big hydroxyl groups inhibit the absorption of water into the paper. But paste is great because it is considered a penetrating adhesives, and maybe the hydroxyl groups will turn it into a surface adhesive. And we have a good surface adhesive that puts less water into paper called PVA - which doesn't go off. But the other advantage of Glycerine is that it inhibits microbial activity. Some potential for a fun and pointless UA-cam video. Oh, she does have the ratios at the back - "in the same proportions as above". My paste is generally 5 parts water to 1 part starch and I take this to mean add 1 part glycerine. And I'm assuming it is by volume.
@@DASBookbinding I look forward to the video. It may start a new chapter in the history of Bookbinding.
Amazing info many thanks. Do you please have any info on why cellulose paste is not considered archival? Also, do you have any info on Konnuaku powders? I understand that Konnuaku is a starch but I think it can be used as glue and also to give strength to papers. I also wanted to know if pure Konnyaku starch/powder is water-soluble after it has dried. Sorry to pick your brains and many thanks for your time. All the best Lou
Archival is a funny word that doesn't really have a formal definition. But methyl cellulose does get used in conservation work. There is a wide range of MC, and conservators will only use specific ones commonly used in the bookbinding/conversation world (for instance the MC sold by Talas in the US or the CMC sold by Hewits in the UK).
I think any starch can be made into an adhesive. But they don't all have the same mechanical properties. I don't know anything about Konnuaku but it will almost certainly reactivate with water after dried. This is considered a feature of starch adhesive - it's reversible. Wheat or rice flour starch is so readily available it is easier just to stick with that. Good luck. DAS
@@DASBookbinding Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.
Thx master
Making my first hardback book thanks to you. I chose a laminated paper for cover and now have to glue the endsheets. I made some tests and PVA does not stick to the laminated surface, it adheres but you can peel it of easyly without any damage. Have tried with liquid silicone, the bond looks strong until it dries then it's useless. So I don't know what to do if I can't find othe option maybe I'll use some contact cement or superglue at the end. Do you have any sugestions. Thankyou.
Sorry, no. Exotic materials require exotic solutions. I try and avoid exotic:)
@@DASBookbinding Thanks for answering. Yeah avoiding exotic is one way, but the cover looks pretty nice and I can print any design or picture I want on the laminated paper. Anyway I decided to use contact cement just on the border of the sheet that makes contact with the laminated paper and the rest just PVA, in order to avoid the diference in paper expansion I'm applying the PVA only to the cover hardboard and contac cement on the laminated paper and endsheet borders. I'm also making basically a 3 layered endsheet, one as part of the cover, some sort of inner cover, and as I'm making an all cardboard Z endsheet I'm pasting the waste sheet to isolate the final endsheet from the acidity of contact cement. Just the inner cover have contact cement all the other layers have PVA, hope this prevent any acid damage to reach the endsheet and the inside of the book. Time will tell. Thank you again.
Totally enjoyed the video. One question for when you do your video on paste. I cook wheat starch paste and no matter how I do it, stove top, microwave, long cooking or short I always end up with a layer of water over it when it cools. I have tried covering it, not covering it. Is this normal?
Totally normal. I'll take a note to talk about this when I do the next paste video. DAS
Hey Mister Darryn, this might seem like the question you did NOT expect about adhesives, but ... where does one purchase EVA in the United States? Is it called something else? Even Talas did not have it. All Google found for me were UK and AU where it was sold.
Jade-R is an EVA. On the Talas website it described as "multi polymer (PVA, EVA)".
@@DASBookbinding Thank you! It had both in the parens ... and was so confusing!
this may be a repeat of a previous question, if so I missed it. Can methyl cellulose be frozen after it has been mixed? Well of course it can be frozen, but will it be usable for book binding after it thaws?
Sorry, no idea. I'm sure MC powder is fine if it is accidentally frozen, unlike PVA. PVA is well know to not be usable after freezing and thus why Talas does not ship it in winter. And there is no reason to freeze MC once it is made up. It doesn't go off like starch paste. Mix some up and try? The change in PVA is obvious. I assume to would be the same with MC.
What binding method are you demonstrating in the video?
Thanks
Laced on boards in 19th century English style
studio.ua-cam.com/users/videoJ72Bhy2NwKA/edit
I was making another version of this with false raised bands when my bindery was flooded last year. I'll get back to it eventually.
I occasionally use glue sticks when box-making. I use the trick Darryn has shown where an oversized sheet of manila is glued to the underside of the tray bottom to give a second reference surface for gluing the tray sides to, and I've had bad experiences with the tray bottom warping from moisture introduced by the adhesive. I've started using a glue stick to do this lamination as it is very dry, and get far less warping. I've not been making boxes long enough to comment on the long term durability.
Wrt box-making, does anyone have any specific recommendations for a 'thick' PVA available in the UK? I've been using regular PVA and the lower tack can be very frustrating when making boxes.
Try putting some PVA in a container and leave the lid off but stir regularly to stop a skin forming. I find my glue pot gets fairly thick after a week or so and often add a bit of water to get it back to my preferred thickness.
Do you have recommendation for some good EVA brand vs. PVA brand?
Some details in the description. But Jade R or Evacon R for EVA and Jade 403 or PVA M289 for a PVA.
Have you tried binding loose pages? If so, what is the best way to do this (might you have a video)? I have a lot of loose single sheets that I would like to turn into a book. I have experimented with this using PVA but it falls apart so I'm not sure if it's possible or if I am just not using the right technique (I'm not very experienced).
Look up the double fan binding. DAS
@@DASBookbinding Thank you, will do!
I want book binding adhesive in bulk
I have a link to suppliers I use in the description.