Thermal-Optical Image Fusion: AGM Fuzion LRF
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Thermal fusion systems usually consist of a thermal image overlay piggy backed onto an analog night vision device. Thermal-optical image fusion systems like the AGM Fuzion LRF use an IR sensitive low light camera in lieu of an analog image intensifier; that makes them much cheaper and in theory better suited to daytime use.
So how does it actually work, and who would benefit from a system like this? Probably not you or me. But it seems like it's just a matter of time before thermal overlays will be added to wearable digital night vision, and that will make it much more attractive.
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I figured out a quick and dirty way to convert tube resolution to digital terms.
For modern 18mm tubes Res score in lp/mm times 36 gives your rough horizontal and vertical pixel count equivalent.
1lp/mm is equal to one pair of lines distiguishable per mm vertical or horizontal of tube - so like two pixels. The tube has an effective 18mm diameter so double the lp/mm score then multiply it by the tube size (score × 2 x tube diameter), and you get an approximate pixel equivalent.
For something like a 70lp/mm mx10160 tube, its roughly equivalent to a 2500×2500 pixel circular screen - basically a qhd monitor. Snr cuts the percieved resolution down in low light but thats about what the percievable detail compares to in good conditions.
It will never really convert because the limits of tube detail are fuzziness rather than tiny blocks, but in principle, the amount of detail you can make out or read should roughly compare this way.
By this metric, a 640 pixel thermal core is like looking through a 17-18 lp/mm intensifier tube detail wise. A sionix opsin (ignoring any other issues) would sit roughly around 42 lp/mm equivalent.
Side note - this is probably why tubes have basically capped out at around that 70lp/mm range. Almost no one ive met can honestly tell apart a qhd from 4k monitor so it sort of becomes a moot point at that level of detail.
Might make a difference down the road if better wide fov lenses get made, but it looks like for fov everyone is just going to more tubes or living with the current 40°
uhh yeah, what the boss said!
There is one important caveat here. With digital sensors, the limiting factor on resolution is rarely the number of pixels. Pretending the two are the same works when you are working with a 640 pixel thermal sensor, but as they get better and you start to see resolutions above about 1200 across or so, this approximation becomes less and less accurate. This is especially an issue with color sensors because of they way they reconstruct color out of limited information.
The only way to get an accurate comparison between the two is to measure them the same way. Which manufacturers don't like to do because its much easier to brag about number of pixels than it is to make an imaging system that actually makes good use of all those pixels.
Many big words used.
Great point that the PVS 14 will never fail you due to firmware updates...
It also wont do what thermal will do... and its not like thermal units get auto updates.
@@CPLBSS88 It also can't be defeated as easily as thermal can.
@@Valorius it's defeated easier, good point.
@@Valorius NV is extremely easy to defeat.... have you even NVD'd bro? 😂
@@CPLBSS88 I have probably spent more time under NVGS than 99% of this comment section, yourself included. None of it LARPing.
Important Cat Times:
5:43 Sleepy Bebe
10:50 Demon Bebe
For observation purposes during the day, having a clip-on polarizer filter for the VIS/NIR camera is beneficial so you can tune off the reflections. Many of those devices unfortunately don't have an internal thread on the camera lens or a cylindrical shroud for a rubber sleeve adapter.
Ecoti is cool, liked using them. Thermal battery life improvements is what I'm hoping for more of from manufacturers. PAS monoculars for 240s are the ultimate thermal monocular though
Agreed
Agm adder has a 15ish hour internal battery, and will accept cr123 for backup power.
Take some time to learn how to work on electronics, and you can install your own USB-C charging port and run them with external batteries/chargers.
...something that should come standard with anything that runs on batteries at the correct amperage today.
For static observation I like the idea of modifying a Syonix camera where you gut it a bit and then clip on a big ole camera lense so you can get optical zoom and a higher exposure
I'm only here to listen to Hop preach. The only night vision I could afford is a moon phase calendar.
AGM consistently pumping out subpar devices
Yep and there customer service sucks! Sold what Agm products I had left
@NGA Outdoors I've never had a good experience with their sales reps
@@poopoo7705 it’s went down hill, sticking with iray and pulsar now.
It really feels like they outsource their product manuals to a non-English speaking company. On the device I have there is no indication which way the batteries go and it isn't the universal spring side equals negative, nipple side equals positive... There is no ON/OFF indicator, just a knob you twist and hope for the best. There is no reviews or setups guides for the majority of their products. Their customer service dude sounded peeved when I told them how easy it would have been to avoid this confusion. Of course with use I got it all marked up and figured out. Just a bit jarring when spending 5k.
@@IFarmBugs I just spent 45 minutes on the phone with armasight which is back in the thermal game customer service rep was very knowledgeable and told me that they’re going to have a vortex type customer service and support. I may try one of their products when they come to market, I had a old armasight Zeus back in the day and had zero issues with it.
The PSQ-20s were dope, and by dope I mean terrible, awful, and very bad in every way, but when it DID work, the ability to quickly switch on fused thermal was amazing, and the thermal overlay was fantastic when the ambient light wasnt cutting it for standard nv.
I also hated the 20s lol
I never had issues with them other than life long neck problems
Thanks a lot for this video! Although I will most likely never own either of these technologies, I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about them. In my opinion as an absolute outsider this is a really good example of technology types stacking up on one another to satisfy a broader set of use-cases. The fact that you can even record your footage on some of these devices these days is so freakin awesome to me! Thanks for your awesome content!
for the analog resolution, you can look at a resolution chart that combined with your field of view can tell you what is the resolution you still differentiate (in arc seconds for example), from that info you can convert it to "pixels" i would suppose. You should be able to find printable resolution charts off the interwebs
This video is a heavy contender for new favorites I didn't watch while doing the dishes. GREAT STUFF DUDE!
Came for the socko shot, was not disappointed
I have a budget helmet rig with one of the micro thermals locked into an articulating 3d printed bino mount across from a Wolf-14. Its actually fairly effective to drop the thermal and scan for targets (coyotes, in my case) and then roll the thermal out of the way and look for detail with the analog NVG.
Its not my top pick or anything, and I'm eventually going to fabricate the bino mount out of aluminum or something more sturdy than 3d printed plastic, but I can definitely see it working.
I'm actually interested in some of the cheaper ATN thermal weapon sights too, especially for pest control at night.
Wicked review and appreciate you going into such depth, as I likely will never afford stuff like this. It's good to know what's out there.
There is a point I wanted to make on your comment about "needing an IT department" or someone tech savvy on your team, as we roll into the future I feel like squads will likely require a "techsmith" if you will, in the future who is versed in everything electronic just based on how vast the landscape is now. Of course mission dependant, but we already see specialized roles like this, so I don't doubt something similar will show its head soon enough in many wet feet military squads, or even preppers.
Great Vid!
The US military already has a Space Force, so an Adeptus Mechanicus is sure to follow!
Nice video as always, Hop. Two questions for you:
1. What are your thoughts on just the FLIR Breach by itself, compared to the other thermal optics you've used?
2. When using the IRay thermal monocular, have you noticed any noise interference with RF sources? There was a post someone made on reddit where their MH25 was going nuts when it was within ~10 feet of a Baofeng.
Having a thermal with no base magnification can be very useful for tactical situations, but walking/driving with just this device will still be problematic in temperature-stabilized environments. If you're considering getting the Breach, I'd recommend also getting the battery extender from MOD Armory. This replaces your CR123 battery with a rechargeable 16650 and gives you significantly longer run times.
The one I have for testing right now is the AGM StingIR, although I think it's largely the same as the MH25. I just waved a bunch of xmitting baofengs in front of it and can't seem to pick up any interference.
lmao that red hot on the cats eyes at the end
Great video man... Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to bring us this information and an honest opinion
I like it. Overlapping images gives great detail for the thermal camera
NOT REAY FOR PRIME TIME! I have about 15 thermals ranging from 50K for the Rvision Carbide16 with double and 640x620 using a 100mm objective lens and a lens that zoom 100 to 180mm down to the breach I bought when it first came out and for a scope I have the Pulsar XG 50 and a drawer full of Armasight Zeus 2 14 640 30z. I bought the Fuzion and found they spent more on marketing then they did on the processor. They advertise 12 Micron 640 with optical night vision. I thought it would be fantastic. What I found was a gimmick, they did not spec a significant CPU processor and the image seen is never clear if anything is moving whether your hand sweeping the horizon or a moving image. I returned the first one thinking a got a bad specimen. Bought another and it was exactly the same. It seemed like you were looking thru a jar of vaseline, the eye piece seemed like it was made of plastic. I could hardly find an animal with the Fuzion. Definitely wait for 2nd gen becasue the combination of the optical and thermal image is worth pursueing but not with this manufactorer yet.
6:36 is art
GREAT JOB THANKS HOP!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can probably figure out the dot pitch of a thermal tube in relation to the "resolution" of the human eye, this would be much alike determining the "retinal" ppi of a display where a ppi of 91 on a 1080x1920 24" monitor at 37" away from your face you can no longer perceive individual pixels.
I noticed with my slim handheld thermal you can see if someone is shining a light around. Inferred too. I like that you can read text. My boss gave me 2 flir thermal cameras for my job. Federal Hazmat contractor.
Heat cat returns !!!!!!
The funny thing is; @Hoplopfheil doesn't realize that I make large equipment expenditure decisions based mostly (or in some cases, solely) on his reviews and opinions. You should be proud of the work you do! Thanks.
Seeing you wear an optic always reminds me of splinter cell
I would really like if you did a review/opinion on a clip on thermal imager over a PVS-14
A dedicated video about your thoughts on drone use would be really interesting at some point
Please, someone with a set of ENVG-Bs let Hop borrow them and do a video. $50k be damned... that tech is the future.
Hops really growing up … went from poverty pony guns to 10k night vision setups 😂 it’s nice being a adult huh
Hello Hop, currently watching in my com 325 lecture. I shoulda put my college money towards thermal and nvg.
If you are getting a degree in communications you most certainly should have. Get a degree in a STEM field. It is worth more.
@@CaptainCreampie69 yes I understand, but I'm not very smart
Shoulda went trades
@@Token_Black_Guy fuckin tell me about it. My friends are making bank rn from it.
@@curtsauce3947 Open a business.
If this device had the Aurora Pro sensor than this would be a whole other level, but just a small sensitive sensor doesn't help a lot in low light situations.
Sorry if you've already been asked this, but will you do a review of the Sionyx Opsin? Or did the T Rex Arms video say all that needed to be said on it?
Trex arms are great people and a great channel, but they are biased because Issac worked directly with Sionyx in the development stage
I noticed you used a StingIR in another one of your videos Hop, whats your thoughts on that device?
Bluff: I'm interested in a thermal monocular, but still very undecided yet.
As someone who has night vision I wouldn’t mind having a clip on overlay but short of that I wouldn’t mind having a handheld or an optic. I’d be able to use it when I wanted to and still use the NV for getting around
Its kind of feels like the industry is trying too hard to make thermal easier to use rather than more effective.
I run an mh25 pvs14 bridge. It sucks, its trippy as all hell to look at, and the images never really blend into one in my head. But realistically, for hunting, pest cotrol, tactical stuff and driving anything without a windshield at night, its just the best.
The learning curve was so steep i almost sold the thermal in the first couple weeks but after learning to run it nothing holds a candle to it.
I would love a video on the pro's and con's of the different thermal options there are. Clip on (those you can mount directly on your nvg's), hand held or weapon mounted. What is the difference in performance (like how far out can you detect a human with each of those options in similar conditions)? What is better for what?
There is one guy on UA-cam that said he finally oriented his Breach with a PVS-14 correctly enough it doesn't hurt his brain to use.
I’ve been running an MH25 w/ PVS14 for almost a year now, and looking at the footage from Nightwalker’s videos I can actually see how the “outdoor alert” mode probably works better as a ghetto fusion compared to the more expensive monoculars like Irays and Nox. BUT, the higher end thermal monos have much better range and resolution compared to the Breach. I can get my MH25 and PVS14 to fuse/merge images most of the time when I’m static, but with walking/dynamic movement it goes to hell. Doesn’t give me a headache, but really makes both the PVS14 and thermal image less usable. TLDR if you’re moving use one at a time (or go with a true fusion/clip on fusion system). I like having the thermal monocular because it works during the day as well.
Hop Kino best Kino
I'm considering getting the iray rico micro, time to go down the video hole of thermal optic...
The infiray CE5 is amazing. Try that thing out. Not like the coti trash from tnvc
CE5 owner here - buy additional power cables.
The tradeoff for being less bulky than the C5 is that the CE5 relies completely on an external battery pack, which means that if your cable fails, your thermal becomes a paperweight.
@@JohnnyConquest76 yeah I'm getting those and several other things that better protect it that are aftermarket
Hey buddy noticed the truck’s license plate number was visible, might want to blur that out? Don’t want y’all to get doxxed.
Fusion is huge for hunting. I do a lot of shooting in west Texas where axis deer are mixed in with white tail. It's very hard to tell which is which at night, often impossible with thermal, so we have to run a pvs14 with a 3x magnifier and illuminator to identify the target. Super important since shooting white tail at night is a no no. Not sure how good this specific night vision would be with an illuminator, but the combination will be a huge win once technology advances.
I shoot pest animals at night with a white light all the time.
Shrug.
@@Valorius Most of my night hunting consisted of a Maglite duct taped to a 22. It can absolutely be done. But hunting with a thermal is like foraging at a buffet. Like showing up to the Alamo in an Apache gunship.
@@heythere4970 LMAO, you have a colorful way with words. ;)
I love a Socko cat 😻
So, what are we thinking, 5-10 years for this pfhuzcion stuff to be integrated with Tracking Point in a self-contained unit the size of a 3x9 Tasco from Big 5? I'd buy that for a dollar.
Can you make a video, or link a video, about getting into thermals. I'd love to get an idea of different forms, purposes, and pricepoints.
Ill never be able to afford any of this stuff. But it sure is cool to watch.
The predator bio mask we have at home ❤😅
when Sionyx comes out with a new model in a couple years they better offer thermal in a pro version or they are really missing the mark. I'd like a thermal that is purely white/black. Wonder if using only white/black pixels can increase display performance.
You and Risky Chrisky need to team up for an expedition to Afghanistan. He can kill some giants and you can buy a PVS-31 for $300.
Odysee backup too Hop. Let's go!
last 1 sec: Kitty terminator FTW
I ran a PVS-14 WP GEN3 & FLIR Breach bridged together for about a year, I found when properly adjusted my eyes merged the images just fine. The draw back in thermal is pointless in a house or for CQB, thermal works best outside. I kept the FLIR Breach but bought a second PVS-14 WP GEN3, so now I'm running dual PVS-14's and not sure what to do with the FLIR Breach. I would love an COTI but they range in price from $4K-$9K and everything is sold out all the time.
Thanks for all of the great info on nods and thermal. Have you ran into the infiray MH25 V2 yet? And have any thoughts?
At 4:57, You attached an ir light? Can you share that ir light and mount info? Great review by the way. It looks like Fuzion is great for surveillance and home security application.
While I dont think anyone will ever actually "need" nightvision as the aplication of it is during extreme social unrest or a government takeover/ invasion. I don't think that is going to happen in my lifetime so I dont think I will ever need to buy it but as a concept its really cool and it is really interesting watch you explore it.
didn't realize having insomnia could be so expensive ........
Next step THRMOPTIC CAMOUFLAGE, ghost in the shell awaits
I read PVS 14 converted to about 4M pixels
What's a good night vision or thermal setup that covers almost all ranges that can be used to aid in the defence of a home on the side of a mountain at night? with a maximum budget of 5k and a strong desire to spend far less then that, something that can be used for that purpose. It would also be nice if It could have decent capabilities incase stuff goes south in the country and greater threats are faced.
If Hop could marry a tubular viewing device he’d marry a PVS14, even though that hot digital unit is flirting with him.
Cute kitty
More day time footage with night vision
They need to upgrade the firmware on this thing to add utility. This product could be significantly improved with a software update
Ecoti is amazing with duals
Interesting
they missed the mark by not making a scope configuration. Maybe not useful for hunters but neo-fudds are the only people that are gonna buy it and actually use it.
How the hell you get your hands on all this badass gear?!?
I know this might be weird but I live in Oregon City and have no friends that are into training with their firearms. Any chance you’d be interested in going shooting some time? I’ve got a sr15, sig 552, Atlas carry and a p7 I can bring? Just throwing that out there.
Is fine with affordable PSA AR15s
Shows off 5k$+ night vision
Are you trolling us Hop?
Or saving money for night vision using PSA?
All these crap thermal devices for ridiculous amounts of money.
I'll throw in a hot take on top of your own. I've been told NOD and Thermal is expensive due to the tech. Yet, I have a playstation VR bundle that was a few hundred dollars when I got it brand new. Is Virtual reality at this point a cheaper technology than NV/thermal, especially with how much developer software support is needed outside of VR hardware with its own programming hurdles?
@@762x69 but there's not many manufacturers of NV tubes, China started making their own and they've been rumoured to be $600 a piece wholesale. You can now buy the new photonis dual WP for $7,000. This is the nice thing about more people getting into NV and not just the military, creates an opportunity for less expensive devices. I still remember when pvs31a's were 20k+ not too long ago. I'd expect by 2030 you will be able to purchase a set of duals for 2500-3000 with a resin body. Feel like with thermals they just keep the same tech in a different shell.
@@762x69 Yes, economics of scale for starters; but also because glass is completely opaque in the spectrum of infrared radiation, which is how thermal signatures are detected, thermal devices must use Germanium or other materials that are transparent in the infrared spectrum for their lenses, those materials are vastly more expensive. Then as you stated, development and tech also is tacked on to the price, which is also more expensive because thermal devices are primarily marketed to duty/military use, they have to do in house testing before a product can ever be sold unless they want to be sued like L3/EoTech with the temperature fraud debacle or 3M with the hearing protection failure. VR tech can just be slapped on the market and firmware patched as end users find bugs & glitches as no one is in danger of grievous bodily harm if little Timmy can't see anime tiddies on his headset. The list goes on & on for why thermal is more expensive than VR.
have you got your hands on a Jerry-C? are those even worth considering? the cost reduction compared to an Ecoti seems suspicious to me
I've not heard much complaint about Jerry-C, guy from TNVC said a lot of the E-COTI price difference is due to features we are locked out of as civilians (ATAK integration, giving GPS overlay like a video game) and frankly government money, they legally must sell at the same price. US made versus Chinese made too.
Hikmicro tech. Own one for one year.
"see true windows"? I've heard reflective surfaces like glass are acting like a shield for flir..
Dude, not sure you want your truck license plate out there on the internet. Just food for thought.
wait, thermal on the left eye and nv on the right one doesnt work!?
Don’t believe in head mounted thermal? Why?
Need me some PSA Thermals 🥵
So should I abandon hope of ever seeing the Sig 716i review?
6:31 taaaaaake meeeeeeee ooooooon
this is not AGM, this is just agm branded HikVision devices
It would be great for milsim
do more thermal content
Yeah real cool!! But until stuff like this comes down to the $1500 range then it's well out of reach for everydayl working Americans. I guess I should say out of reach for someone with kids. If you don't have kids that's one thing but with a house full of rugrats people can't afford 3k for damn night vision! Especially in today's economy
That's real talk brother. Truth is with grandkids now, I can't even entertain the idea of toys past the 1000 dollar mark unless it provides a daily function for myself or is absolutely bomb proof from the gremlins that destroy everything they can see, lol.
Bachelor vision
i saw 1 hour ago and im tired and thought the channels picture made me think fps russia was back
i paid $25 for night vision from Walmart lol... Used it to track some coyotes to there den... Although the picture is not as crisp I was able to make it through thick brush and marshy areas without any trouble. For the 4gs one of these cost I could get some more pewpews an old truck and gas and ammo to run them and still have money left over to take the wife out for a night on the town!!
Im lucky enough my brain is weird and can operate them bridged
great content: but to tell you the truth Thermal and any other type of NV is just above my pay grade and to be honest I like the Vietnam theory on NV.. but Tech sucked back then and I would say of they had modern tech then they probably would have used more NV
Hey Hop, you should post teaser videos on UA-cam and then direct the audience to Rumble. Don't play the censors game, get people on to free speech platforms!
Me, having 72 bucks in my bank account, watching this video which $4k+ head gear setup is the best
Enjoying your onlyfans content
Hey hop is it worth get a atn nvm14-2 for 1000-1200?
First (public)
For the expense, these thermal and night vision optics dont have very good o.s. interface... looks like 80s menus.
Any recommendations for a poor white boy living in the corn fields of Indiana? Something in the $500-$1000 max range, no pun intended.
Gun Lesbian!!
Hop 😂😂😂
If it comes to civilian market, it's because it's not new tech, and it's also packed into the most useless application. looking at stuff. Just film during the day and change the pallet and watch it later for a lot less money.
If this is the same AGM that makes the Glory Pro smartphone with thermal camera, they suck. Cheap Chinese crap through and through.