Definitely the WGS over the Eminence on this combo. I fitted the WGS speaker from my Two Rock Studio Pro (which I believe was a 'custom' version of the ET-65 IIRC) in a friend's Blues Junior Mk1 which had the very boxy sounding standard Fender speaker in it, and it totally transformed it into a superb sounding amp. I'm sure lots of other speakers would have improved the sound as well (that Fender speaker really was all middle), but for me it was a stroke of luck that they paired so well. It's definitely worth trying out different speakers in amps, if you've got the chance.
Eminence Tonkerlite Neo sounds like the ET65; British. Lil Texas is smoother, a touch darker, more headroom. It’s one of my favorite 12” speakers for Fender amps. The Tonkerlite would sound much closer to the ET65 in this video. Lil Texas is a secret weapon, nice and velvety on the neck pickup, with a surprising amount of bite in the bridge pickup. Increases efficiency and headroom and decreases the total weight of the amp. The ET65 is no slouch, though! Really sounds like my Blonde Blues Jr that I have loaded with an Eminence Tonkerlite, the Redcoat Neo offering from Eminence. My Lil Texas developed a very noticeable amount of low end after a few dozen hours of gigging, but still same basic tone. Tonkerlite has rounder low end, slightly more scooped mids, and a hair more articulation and sparkle, without harshness. Tonkerlite made my 10 watt Fender Champ 12 seem like a 30 watt amp! It’s *loud*
I like the ET 65, I have one and the ET90, both are good. Loaded a Jr with a Neo Creamback and love it. It is less efficient at 97/db, but that is a plus for me.
I've put a few speakers in my tweed BJr and settled on a Tone Speak Austin 1250. Great price, good people run the company and it sounds great. Obviously this is all subjective but I like this speaker so much I'm looking at the rest of the line for my other high gain needs. Couple vids on UA-cam if you're interested.
@@PsionicAudio I agree it won’t be dramatic, same exact speaker but with more low end. But you are also correct- it’s not like a 100 watt head will be hitting it. Maybe if some of the doping was removed, it would be less stiff. That’s the tone I prefer, along with unpotted pickups, as long as you can get away with it.
So besides a wgs et65. What other speakers do you think work well with this amp. I agree that I'm not a fan of neo speakers in general. I do like the et65 alot actually just looking for other recommendations
Lyle, I think you nailed it with the comment "the speaker is too much for the amp". The neo is a great speaker, but to compare it to the WGS I think it may be a little apples to oranges affect. Good demo 👍
I may do a follow up or just pin a comment about a lot of the difference here is because the Blues Junior output can’t cause the 125W speaker to have any real excursion, so upper mids will always dominate the lows. That’s just physics. The Eminence would fare better with a 50W+ amp.
How about some recommendations for a speaker to minimize the natural "boxiness/mid-strong" character of this amp? Playing clean/country to rock (not high gain, at most AC/DC type rock). Currently my BJ IV has a Cannabis Rex which I like, but I find it has few things I'm not crazy about.
Really curious about that bit of equipment in the background with the big meter. It looks like the electronics from a open-reel tape deck I used to use. Full track (mono) record, half track playback. Worked ok, but you could easily stretch a thin tape on it.
I can't really decide between those two, it's a matter of usage scenario, in my opinion. The shop cab is a bit "Fenderish" in terms of a perceived smiley-face-EQ. The highs sound clearer than the Eminence, although I think in a Live or Mixing situation the Eminence will make life easier, by a lot. I mostly use the JVM212 for recording, and I like listening and playing on the G12 Heritage side, but the sound engineers always choose the V30 for miking. They get the same sound to the track that I'm hearing the cab itself, they say the V30 has simply more "usable content" for the microphone and they'd rather do EQing on the track instead of dialling in the Heritage. Makes me think that this may be a similar situation - WGS cab for playing, Eminence for recording.
I really wanted to like the Lil Texas but could never get along with it. Loved the Texas Heat in my old tweed Blues Jr. Was under the impression that the Lil Texas would sound similar. But found it to be much brighter and stiffer than the Texas Heat.
In my experience with Eminence Neo speakers, the Tonkerlite is much better in open back cabs or combo amps, and the Lil Texas is better in closed back cabs. I have a Tonkerlite currently in my old blonde Blues Jr. it’s round, beautiful, and smooth. However, I’m a huge fan of lower power voicecoils, like the ET65 has. A Jupiter 25 watt is splendid, as is a Jensen Blackbird 40. The Tonkerlite is also 125 watts, like the Lil Texas, but it has a much rounder and warmer response. I haven’t tried the Legend EM12N, Eminence’s Neo version of a EVM12L.
What does wonders for the boxy sound is The BBE Sonic Stomp, yes some hate it but dont know how to use it I suspect, they are like 50 $ or something used
I own 3 1x12 cabinets, equipped with Celestion A-Style, V-Style and a Jensen Toronado Neodyne. For my taste, with the Blues Junior, the V-Style works best because it adds a little more deep end and bass.
My Blues Jr has a V-Type in it when I got it. It sounded great. I done the Bill M mods and it sounds even better. I tried the C Rex and went back to the V-Type. It sounds great and has that in your face attitude at any volume. The V-Type sounds similar the the Vintage 30 in my other Blues Jr but it's a lot cheaper
Well, to be fair, it is probably still better sounding, than the stock Fender speaker. It may work well with drive/distortion, as the harshness of the tope end is cut.
Can anyone begin to guess at the effects of 1. Ohm Ratings with the Output Transformer ? (I am sure they are close but that reactance may be involved...?) maybe? 2. Mass of the moving Speaker Coil on frequency? Sure glad I never was a NEO buyer .... wanted the reduced weight but it sounds shallow without a positive value ..... would any more tone - dialing help? seems the reactance (?) gives it an old phone tone.....
@@CharlesWillisBonsai no, the boxy sound does not come from the size of the cabinet. Believe me, change the 4 Blue Caps and the sound is different, more open. And, Why would the boxy sound be due to the size of the cabinet when it is open at the back?
Hey Lyle, I think I remember you saying in a video that the Celestion Neo Creamback did not sound the same as the ceramic cream back, but I don’t recall if you thought it was a decent speaker in its own right. Have you come across any neodymium magnet speakers that you like? On a related topic, do you think putting a driver with lean low end in a larger volume sealed enclosure would help the bass response?
I don’t think I said that - I don’t think I’ve ever heard/played the Neo Creamback. As of this writing I’ve not heard any Neo speakers I care for, but I haven’t tried all of them. On your last point, that’s the “secret” of Greenbacks in a 4x12.
@@PsionicAudio I have a single JBL E120 (12”) in a 29”x20”x14” sealed Baltic birch cab that sounds pretty massive, I don’t find it too bright or “hard” like I’ve heard some people describe the JBLs. I also picked up an E-130 to play with as I am curious how the 105db efficiency will play with my AA1164 Princeton Reverb. I’m thinking it will give it a significant headroom bump. Just have to figure out the cabinet volume I want to go with.
i put a 30 watt celestion in my fender super champ because i use that amp in tandem with my marshall 40 watt and it sounded GREAT .... it is so good when the band plays small club gigs the marshall gets to nap in the trunk
To be honest, I'm not hearing much of a difference, but it could be due to my desktop computer speakers (JBL Pro), although they have plenty of low end when I'm listening to mp3's. You probably could hear more of a difference being in the room. I'm curious if you notice the same difference when listening to your video on your computer system?
Definitely the WGS over the Eminence on this combo.
I fitted the WGS speaker from my Two Rock Studio Pro (which I believe was a 'custom' version of the ET-65 IIRC) in a friend's Blues Junior Mk1 which had the very boxy sounding standard Fender speaker in it, and it totally transformed it into a superb sounding amp. I'm sure lots of other speakers would have improved the sound as well (that Fender speaker really was all middle), but for me it was a stroke of luck that they paired so well. It's definitely worth trying out different speakers in amps, if you've got the chance.
Turn the volume up past 3. Turn it up to 5 at last.
Eminence Tonkerlite Neo sounds like the ET65; British. Lil Texas is smoother, a touch darker, more headroom. It’s one of my favorite 12” speakers for Fender amps. The Tonkerlite would sound much closer to the ET65 in this video. Lil Texas is a secret weapon, nice and velvety on the neck pickup, with a surprising amount of bite in the bridge pickup. Increases efficiency and headroom and decreases the total weight of the amp. The ET65 is no slouch, though! Really sounds like my Blonde Blues Jr that I have loaded with an Eminence Tonkerlite, the Redcoat Neo offering from Eminence. My Lil Texas developed a very noticeable amount of low end after a few dozen hours of gigging, but still same basic tone. Tonkerlite has rounder low end, slightly more scooped mids, and a hair more articulation and sparkle, without harshness. Tonkerlite made my 10 watt Fender Champ 12 seem like a 30 watt amp! It’s *loud*
Unpopular opinion: the stock Fender Eminences are actually quite nice. At least in mine :)
I thought it sounded fine. Very clear and mid-focused. I might try a Celestion 65w Creamback in that amp. If it was me.
I like the ET 65, I have one and the ET90, both are good. Loaded a Jr with a Neo Creamback and love it. It is less efficient at 97/db, but that is a plus for me.
I've put a few speakers in my tweed BJr and settled on a Tone Speak Austin 1250. Great price, good people run the company and it sounds great. Obviously this is all subjective but I like this speaker so much I'm looking at the rest of the line for my other high gain needs. Couple vids on UA-cam if you're interested.
For starters that sucker has a 2” voice coil….so it’s going to roll off a lot of highs. Speakers fill in the low end after the break in period.
Nah, won't be a dramatic change with break in. Not that a 15W amp causes much excursion with a 125W speaker.
@@PsionicAudio I agree it won’t be dramatic, same exact speaker but with more low end. But you are also correct- it’s not like a 100 watt head will be hitting it. Maybe if some of the doping was removed, it would be less stiff. That’s the tone I prefer, along with unpotted pickups, as long as you can get away with it.
The Neo Lil Texas, doesn't sound to have less bass to me, but it does have much more prominent upper mids. The ET65 seems more balanced.
I like the ET65 the best - just sounded like a sweeter speaker.
agreed - I use the ET65 IRs and they seem to have a wider freq. response
So besides a wgs et65. What other speakers do you think work well with this amp. I agree that I'm not a fan of neo speakers in general. I do like the et65 alot actually just looking for other recommendations
Creamback 65, Vintage 30, Veteran 30, Legend 1258, G12H 30. All good choices.
I prefer the Lil' Texas here. To me its dark and not has brittle on the top.
Lyle, I think you nailed it with the comment "the speaker is too much for the amp". The neo is a great speaker, but to compare it to the WGS I think it may be a little apples to oranges affect. Good demo 👍
I may do a follow up or just pin a comment about a lot of the difference here is because the Blues Junior output can’t cause the 125W speaker to have any real excursion, so upper mids will always dominate the lows. That’s just physics. The Eminence would fare better with a 50W+ amp.
I had a Cannabis Rex in a BJr...and could not dial out enough of the bass out for my taste...It is certainly more massive and has stiffer cone.....
The cannabis rex is very long to be broken in.
I put a left over V30 from the late 90's. Sounds great!
How about some recommendations for a speaker to minimize the natural "boxiness/mid-strong" character of this amp? Playing clean/country to rock (not high gain, at most AC/DC type rock). Currently my BJ IV has a Cannabis Rex which I like, but I find it has few things I'm not crazy about.
I even found a Cream Back running too low. About a 30 watt speaker is more than enough for a 18-watt amp. I changed to the 30 watt Greenback.
Really curious about that bit of equipment in the background with the big meter. It looks like the electronics from a open-reel tape deck I used to use. Full track (mono) record, half track playback. Worked ok, but you could easily stretch a thin tape on it.
Et65 for sure :)
Very revealing indeed😉😎👍
I agree that 125 Watt speaker seems an odd choice, and the shop speaker sounds better.
Good follow up, I do come here to learn.
I can't really decide between those two, it's a matter of usage scenario, in my opinion. The shop cab is a bit "Fenderish" in terms of a perceived smiley-face-EQ. The highs sound clearer than the Eminence, although I think in a Live or Mixing situation the Eminence will make life easier, by a lot.
I mostly use the JVM212 for recording, and I like listening and playing on the G12 Heritage side, but the sound engineers always choose the V30 for miking.
They get the same sound to the track that I'm hearing the cab itself, they say the V30 has simply more "usable content" for the microphone and they'd rather do EQing on the track instead of dialling in the Heritage.
Makes me think that this may be a similar situation - WGS cab for playing, Eminence for recording.
Yeah, crazy that one speaker made a Fender sound Fender-like.
I really wanted to like the Lil Texas but could never get along with it. Loved the Texas Heat in my old tweed Blues Jr. Was under the impression that the Lil Texas would sound similar. But found it to be much brighter and stiffer than the Texas Heat.
In my experience with Eminence Neo speakers, the Tonkerlite is much better in open back cabs or combo amps, and the Lil Texas is better in closed back cabs. I have a Tonkerlite currently in my old blonde Blues Jr. it’s round, beautiful, and smooth. However, I’m a huge fan of lower power voicecoils, like the ET65 has. A Jupiter 25 watt is splendid, as is a Jensen Blackbird 40. The Tonkerlite is also 125 watts, like the Lil Texas, but it has a much rounder and warmer response. I haven’t tried the Legend EM12N, Eminence’s Neo version of a EVM12L.
What does wonders for the boxy sound is The BBE Sonic Stomp, yes some hate it but dont know how to use it I suspect, they are like 50 $ or something used
I own 3 1x12 cabinets, equipped with Celestion A-Style, V-Style and a Jensen Toronado Neodyne. For my taste, with the Blues Junior, the V-Style works best because it adds a little more deep end and bass.
My Blues Jr has a V-Type in it when I got it. It sounded great. I done the Bill M mods and it sounds even better. I tried the C Rex and went back to the V-Type. It sounds great and has that in your face attitude at any volume. The V-Type sounds similar the the Vintage 30 in my other Blues Jr but it's a lot cheaper
Really good video! Would be great to hear a speaker shootout in Hot Rod Deluxe and/or Deville.
Excellent vid!
Well, to be fair, it is probably still better sounding, than the stock Fender speaker. It may work well with drive/distortion, as the harshness of the tope end is cut.
Can anyone begin to guess at the effects of
1. Ohm Ratings with the Output Transformer ? (I am sure they are close but that reactance may be involved...?) maybe?
2. Mass of the moving Speaker Coil on frequency?
Sure glad I never was a NEO buyer .... wanted the reduced weight but it sounds shallow without a positive value .....
would any more tone - dialing help?
seems the reactance (?) gives it an old phone tone.....
Have you ever repaired or tried to scratch build an Echosonic amp?
What happened to the latest video of the OneSpot CS-12 power supply? I was interested to hear your take on it.
Redoing it tomorrow. It will be explained more then.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you! Looking forward to it. I love your videos. 👍
I changed the 4 blue caps and the sound is no more boxy. Billmodaudio was right: the boxy sound of junior blues comes from the bad blue caps.
The small Princeton size cabinet with a 12 inch speaker crammed in surely isn't helping either.
@@CharlesWillisBonsai no, the boxy sound does not come from the size of the cabinet. Believe me, change the 4 Blue Caps and the sound is different, more open.
And, Why would the boxy sound be due to the size of the cabinet when it is open at the back?
Hey Lyle, I think I remember you saying in a video that the Celestion Neo Creamback did not sound the same as the ceramic cream back, but I don’t recall if you thought it was a decent speaker in its own right. Have you come across any neodymium magnet speakers that you like? On a related topic, do you think putting a driver with lean low end in a larger volume sealed enclosure would help the bass response?
I don’t think I said that - I don’t think I’ve ever heard/played the Neo Creamback.
As of this writing I’ve not heard any Neo speakers I care for, but I haven’t tried all of them.
On your last point, that’s the “secret” of Greenbacks in a 4x12.
@@PsionicAudio I have a single JBL E120 (12”) in a 29”x20”x14” sealed Baltic birch cab that sounds pretty massive, I don’t find it too bright or “hard” like I’ve heard some people describe the JBLs. I also picked up an E-130 to play with as I am curious how the 105db efficiency will play with my AA1164 Princeton Reverb. I’m thinking it will give it a significant headroom bump. Just have to figure out the cabinet volume I want to go with.
that emminence is kinda pokey around 1k. it might be less farty if you're running distortion on top.
i put a 30 watt celestion in my fender super champ because i use that amp in tandem with my marshall 40 watt and it sounded GREAT .... it is so good when the band plays small club gigs the marshall gets to nap in the trunk
To be honest, I'm not hearing much of a difference, but it could be due to my desktop computer speakers (JBL Pro), although they have plenty of low end when I'm listening to mp3's. You probably could hear more of a difference being in the room. I'm curious if you notice the same difference when listening to your video on your computer system?
It's pretty drastic on my Macbook and on my iPhone.
ET65 - to me in this comparison - sounds better in that cab...
Something about a Silk Purse.....
Yuk! Next speaker please.
The ET65 sounds better with this amp.
Either is nice, but yes, I like a fatter bottom end myself lol