What Analytics RUINED in the NBA
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- When Rick Carlisle told the media he didn't want to post up Kristaps Porzingis, it sparked a huge debate about the state of the NBA in general, and whether analytics misinterpreted certain plays as inefficient. Coach Nick goes in deep to explain how the post up hasn't been valued properly and why it should never go away.
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"He's like 6'11, 6'12.." - Shaq
no he's 6'15 lol
haha porzingis is taller and longer than shaq. he looks 6'11-ish because he's thin and long.
It was a joke about how 7fters who dont want to play center list themselves as 6"11
mel saint Skinner people tend to look longer and taller than heavier people . Porzingis looks taller than shaq which he is; he just isn’t bigger . Shaq has a longer wingspan though
Shaq can be dumb but that was probably a joke
Why does this music make me feel I'm watching a true crime documentary lol
Chris D'Avanzo agreed
Cause carlisle made a crime saying postup is dead. He's intention was right to defend his player, but that's just wrong to say that coming from a long time coach with a chip in his name. Kp is young and can still work his game more, and post ups is one of that which he was actually good at it like what coach nick highlighted in this vid, he's a 7'3 ffs.
@@comedychrises comment slick as fuck
it is a crime documentary, ''who killed the postups?''
Because he is killing in the game
When he says historic he’s talking about his 3pt shooting ability for his height
Historic doesn't mean valuable
hes shooting 34%, u know the tall euro guy before him i. e we all know dirk shot above that (another tall guy who shoots well even better in the nba right now is siakam) he said historic shooting not historic offensive plus so he clearly or at least somewhere is misinformed.
But its still not historic, unless you cherry-pick it so precisely that Porzingis ends up being 1st among a group of 1. Porzingis is a 35.7% 3pt shooter on his career, and has only 1 season shooting higher than 36% from 3. But there have been lots of bigs, not just Dirk, who have topped that: Chris Webber, Mehmet Okur, Troy Murphy, Brad Miller, Myers Leonard, Boris Diaw, Al Horford are just a handful of recent bigs who have shot better from 3 than Porzingis. Porzingis isn't even the best 3pt shooting center in the league right now, let alone in NBA history: Kelly Olynyk and Karl Towns are both shooting over 40% from 3 this year, both are centers. Aron Baynes is shooting 38%, much better than Porzingis at 34%, and is a center. Myles Turner, Marc Gasol, and Frank Kaminsky are all centers shooting better than Porzingis this year.
Leif Christian Rosendo give kd some love man
Clutch7 who asked him to take deep shots ,that’s just inefficient
"throwing the ball in the low post DOES NOT mean you have to shoot it" 🙌🏾 Preach Brotha
Solid 43% as a post player?? Are you fucking serious "coach" ??????????????? And you clearly have comprehension problems carlisle said the value of THE POST play has plumed IN GENERAL he never said that Luka playing the post AGAINST A SMALL player is not worth it and actually that's why they still post with Luka....... My god "coach" hahahahaha, you are getting old :p
Please stop copy/pasting the same obnoxious comment everywhere.
@@michaelhaydenbell what are u referring to?
Shittt I play center and I will bust a 3 anytime I fucking feel the need to
Yeah passing out of the post is a rare skill though. That's a hard position to pass from, if your back's to the basket you can't see over half the court.
Great breakdown and I generally agree.
Post-ups can also help pick up fouls on the opposing big men, which may limit their aggressiveness on D (on-ball and help) later on in the game.
Great great point!
Also better for stamina. You can just lean right up against the defender. You're not running around the perimeter, doing hundreds of crossovers and it takes less energy from your legs to shoot inside then it does pulling up from 30' 😂
Yup also generates a high percent of getting an offensive rebound as 3s generally are long rebounds/break starters
Dont forget thats the bread and butter of phil's triangle. And was already proven before.
4 out 1 in offense is great. A lot of space to your big to dominate the paint then when he is being double teamed he can just kick it out for a 3
KP gets stripped far too often in the post especially when he tries to face up instead of the fade
its a self fulfilling prophecy. the more he posts the better he'll be and less likely to lose the ball
john 8181818 What? You mean teams will stop talking to him lmao? Not every tall ass boy can bang in the post... This is his play style.
@@mokushmasmo6009 In his last year in NY he was posting up constantly and was doing great. If he practices being in the post more, he will be a better post player, its simple.
Kp don't got great Hands
90 KiD Lazy Kraken no offensive awareness
KP is just what he is. A glitch and absolutely amazing player when he’s hot 🥵
The Monster Zz nah
@@nalimlattarai2873 You dare diss the unicorn? I'm sorry but he is an amazing player. shooting 35-40% from 3 for a man of his size is unheard of... Outside of Dirk and maybe Sabonis, no other big man comes close to stretching the floor in NBA history and dirk was 3-4 inches shorter
Justin Purcell his height doesn’t mean anything if he’s not even using it. I’d rather have a 35% shooter who is 4 inches shorter but can at least grab rebounds and take advantage of mismatches. Hell, I’d rather have a 45% shooter who can’t do anything else on offense but space tho floor, cause they would basically be a more efficient and lower usage Porzingis. If KP was a great rebounder and a bully in the paint then you could make a statement like that since it adds to his game. But this season, spacing the floor is really his only weapon on offense so his height doesn’t add much
Justin Purcell also he’s shooting below 35% from three this season so he’s not even in the 35-40% range
@@coolhands4444 he is rebounding the ba at a high rate this season
He's just still rusty, give him more time and he will kill it like he did in NY. Anyways, he's shooting from the logo like 100%. And personally KP is one of the most entertaining players to watch. Nobody talks about his defense, Doncic was good last year also but to get to the playoff there was no chance. Look now when they have KP on defense....
Agree...coach carlisle knows whats up, he just got tired of this narrative that people like barkley keeps on pushing. I think he knows that kp is not yet hundred percent, and does not have the skill set to be in the post. Kp has a lean body, so he wont be banging guys backing them down. Maybe next season. Now, not yet.
I followed KP in NY he only never showed at any point he can sustain any sort of consistency. He has mad potential but offensively hes never been as good as advertised. With that said I’d still love to have him in NY and i do think hes best as a 2nd or 3rd option which he is behind Doncic now.
@@JD-ny3vz KP is an MVP candidate when he's the 1st option in Knicks, but that all came to stop when he suffered an injury.
@@allenxavier6073 that was for the firs month or two for the season prior to his injury his production fell off a cliff, and his production dropped dramatically midway through the season in his first 2 seasons as well.
@@JD-ny3vz it didn't fell through a cliff, he was still dropping all star numbers.
It don’t matter his size if he gets the ball in the basket then he’s doing a good job
You dumb
@@wingzero3018 it's like he said. Size don't matter if you can't put the ball in the bucket. 💯
Factss
@@wingzero3018 How?
@@elsamurai1220 because size does matter. It doesn't make since to put a 7 footer on the perimeter when he can put the ball through the hoop 5 feet away from the basket. But the NBA is soft now, so maybe it makes since to watch 7 footers like embiid to score zero points and the unicorn to be unable to bang inside if need be. Get out of here with that weak stuff
When he said historically great on 3s, he said historically great on above the break threes. Havent checked if its true, but its different from just threes.
The post is ALIVE glad you highlighted this!
KD literally won Warriors 2 rings by playing in the post and midrange. Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol too. We can even go back to 2014 Spurs. Rick Carlisle is talking bullshit
yet the mavs are winning now, they just changed this concept recently
nba became boring shooting contest
@@jeffhardy6333 Lmao kd wouldn't won the ring without curry or Klay Thomson tho. The stats number show otherwise tho. Majority curry and Klay do the most work
Ryan lex Klay got some buckets in the post too but okay😂
@@Ryanlexz and if my aunt had stones, she'd be my uncle.
I like how the Lakers especially early in the season were getting AD posted early in the offense. I also like how the nuggets use Jokic with space and move and give him options. Coming from playing in Europe,I thought KP would be a better passer from inside
Earlier in the season it was just a 2-MAN SHOW running 1-Pass Offense.
As a result, Lebron & Anthony dealing with injuries for not involving the whole team in offensive production, ONLY DEFENSIVE PRODUCTION.
@@deandrepage1048 Where are you gettig your information from
@@andreilyas1426 Watch games.
It was either a Lebron James ISO or 1 pass to Anthony Davis so he could go ISO-MODE.
Killed any chance for the NEW SHOOTERS to develop a rhythm.
I'm agree with you. If AD, Jokic, KAT and other centers can do it ...KP should be able to do it. Of course Mavericks could win a high % of games but sometimes, you need an aggressive center when your team struggles in offense. If this is not happens... Luka is the chosen to do this job.
Hey coach, thanks for the great video response to this topic. I was wondering if you saw my question when I posted it. Happy New Year and again, keep up the good content.
Coach: post ups are dead
Melo: Hold my beer
Melo looks like he's been drinking a lot of beer. Washed. Up.
@@IndianaSmallmouth do you even watch basketball? with dumbass comments like that.
Yes, because his slow ass, ISO plays didnt kill Knicks and now the Blazers. Its nice when you watch a highlight real, but the Blazers might not even make playoffs. His a deadweight in todays age.
@@NeroVuk Do you even know who Melo is? He averaged 30 a game with Allen Iverson on his team. Now he is #washedprince
@@doksfrommars Blazers arent making the playoffs because Nurkic, Collins, and Hood have all been out for pretty much the whole season. so literally 3/5 of their starters havent been able to play. And when nurk comes back hes gonna be rusty AF like gordon hayward was for awhile
Zones really hurt the post up imo. KP isn’t Dirk. People need to realize that.
Only if you look at it like you have to shoot. Modern defenses will pre rotate but honestly that just means that they have compromised themselves and if the post player has the vision he can take advantage of it.
Most guys don't have the vision though
Hate zone
Zones hurt the post up? Than why do we see guys like lebron slice through a zone simply by sitting in the post and creating shots for his teammates of himself regularly? You can then say that lebron is lebron and while I agree with that there is a genuine reason why Giannis leads the Bucks in assists, and it’s not because Bledsoe is there point guard. Post ups need to be in the game more and I agree with everything that was said in the video. Get guards down there with good vision to exploit the defense.
FTC_Recking 15 zones hurt the post up because it makes it easier to double off of someone. How do you destroy a zone? A bunch of 3s. They can post up Giannis and people will double because he is dominant within 5 feet of the rim. They have some of the best 3 point shooters on that team. You have to put a good passer in there posting up and you’ll be good.
Forrest Hinton exactly what I just said if you have a good passer in the post you will shred the zone and get the efficiency you want with 3s and good looks at the rim if they don’t double
I think posting up should depend on your skills and effectiveness at the post instead of height.. If KP wants to be in the post he should add a hook shot or a running hook shot. His turnaround jumpshot at the post is inefficient.
AND HE CAN;T PASS
but therein lies the rub- even the very best post-up players taking shots from the post has a lower expected value than just an average NBA player shooting a 3 or a lay-up. Compare the points per possession from post-ups for guys like Jokic, Embiid, KAT, etc. to the ppp for an average player shooting a 3. Its just not an efficient shot or form of offense. I mean, I definitely miss watching post-up play, and we're definitely missing something by post play getting marginalized... but videos like this are basically asking coaches to shoot themselves in the foot and take lower-value shots from the post because... nostalgia, basically.
(all that said, the post remains highly relevant in the NBA not as a source for offense in itself, but as a way to set up other, better/higher-value shots for other players: setting up 3 pointers from a post-up, for instance- this is the future of the post in today's NBA, not a throwback to post-up scorers like Shaq, the Dream, Tim Duncan, etc)
@@enaidealukal9203 the video shows that Post play is not being advocated for nostalgia's sake.
But because it is effective, though not strictly for Points return of the Post itself.
But because of O rebounds, passes from the Post to the arc (best ones), passes to cutters, etc.
Not nostalgia driven.
Maybe Nick is nostalgic for it, idk, but his reasons were all results based, imo.
Kobe grew in his post game, as did Michael (who Kobe emulated).
Kobe even added the Dirk leg and Euro step, which were things that 80s/90s MJ never did.
So whilst height ≠ post game, Kobe showed that skills can be acquired, even if you are naturally suited to being a Wing.
Jason Kidd was a terrible shooter, but was great by the time he retired in comparison.
Vince Carter also added the 3 to keep his career.
TLDR; effectiveness is the criteria, but all can practice to become more effective. :)
Great video. The best part was at the end when you mentioned deteriorating footwork skills.
Personally, I want more post play because chucking 3's Houston style is boring as.
Houston's style still looks a lot different than everyone else's.
Thanks!! I’ve been developing some training methods and fundamentals that I believe will help Players be better scorers down there
i miss Kobe
There are many Hakeem, McHale, Jordan and Kobe videos out there.
No need for posting up to die 😁
I totally agree but the idea that ppl expect the league to conform to their idea of "fun" even though it is proven to be less efficient is just dumb. Not saying you're one of those, but too many ppl cannot understand why the game is played this way now and believe it's a product of lazier or softer players. Like, no, it's a product of smarter teams and players even if it is less fun to watch. If bully ball/low post banger type play gave teams the best chance to win, you bet it would be the trend around the league.
Porzingis has never been on a positive team until now, this is just more media trying to be coaches.
Exactly!! People bash bad coaches with bad records. Now kp has a better team with better coaching, he still gets some. But thats the way it is.
This is the reason why I don't watch media. Too many fake news
@@Ryanlexz true
He's just an average shooter.
OjoRojo40 he coming back from missing 20 months of basketball, KP criminally underrated. 7’3 shooter who wouldn’t want him on your team to space the floor.
The irony is that there was a team that focused heavily on offensive rebounds to make up for first order inefficiency, the last year KD was with the Thunder. Coach hated that team.
Thunder had offensive liability at the 5.
@@okeybuckeye524 I agree as far as that goes, but 1) that's not the only position that can post -- in fact coach keeps pushing point guards to post 2) I was mostly just commenting on part of the vid where coach was talking about collapsing offences and getting more offensive boards. . . . it's a strategy more teams should try, the Thunder rode that to almost beating the 73 win Warriors.
I am an Oklahoma native. The Thunder were a hot mess. Everyone here knew that those three were special but the insistence of Brooks to play Tabo and Perkins while never running a pick and roll, screen or any motion.
They wanted to emulate San Antonio and they did but it was all of the worst stuff that wasn't a fit for OKC's personnel.
@@okeybuckeye524 You have your ax to grind, clearly. I'm not even saying you're wrong. Here, I'll say it: you are what about what you talking about. But, what I'm saying worked for that team was it's historically high offensive rebounding rate. Once you use that, as the video wants us to use to re-evaluate post offense, what the Thunder did "worked," went up 3-1 on the Warriors, and could have won a championship. And, yes, it would have been an incredibly ugly way to win. Lastly, congrats on also being from Oklahoma.
@@abc8722 I guess I am trying to get across why being an all-time great offensive rebounding team with that amount of scoring talent is like saying that the most impressive part of Michael Jordan's game was all those times he led the league in steals. Yay that's great but I think the scoring is the cream.
Coach may see it that way as well.
He is getting into some pretty subjective territory when you say that a big missing a shot in the paint is a positive play because it opens rebounding opportunities that in turn can foster open threes. Seems like a lot of moving parts to maybe get a rebound that will maybe get a three.
Lol I love this "angry Coach Nick" music
happy new year to you all, and to you, Coach Nick!
Excellent video. I've been screaming this point for years. When everyone looks at the analytics at face value, of course the post up generates lower percentage shots, but there are other ways to score off of low post action such as offensive rebounds, three point shots, and cutters. With that said, there are very few centers in today's NBA that can play the distributing role other than Jokic. There aren't that many Sabonis', Wilt Chamberlains, or Pau Gasol's that can create offense by passing out of the post.
I feel post play just feels more fun. Imagine KP blowing by the defender with a spin and getting a easy lay or assist.
They've taken the fun and competitive nature away from the game. Just to see who can launch the most 35 footers.
You think if he could he wouldn't? He's not fucking fast enough and he's 7'3
Libra Alibaba that shit definitely wins games though
@@toohigh4u18 For some teams and players. Not when everyone is doing it.
@@alizivani6274 he could. This 2:30 spin move is nice. He should use it more.
"Post ups are a low value situation."
*Anthony Davis would like to know your location*
His predecessor was told he should stay in the paint as well.
His predecessor is a top 3 pf all time and an all-around better player idk if kp is the next dirk
Ashor-IE _ he’s not but dirk never played in the paint
@@isaacsalazar342 that's false. His signature shot is a fadeway one legged jumper brother
Dirk's signature move is a one-legged post fades tho
If you think Dirk didn't post up you're delusional lol
100% agree with you. I’m 33 and played the 4-5 positions all my life and have an old school post game and have understood all of what you’ve said since I was about 14. I hate the way basketball is played now. Why go for a 40-45% shot 30 feet away all the time when you can get a 50-60% shot much closer to the basket? Another great video man
Tim Duncan together with his 5 rings left the Group chat
Nice analysis coach! That is often the biggest misunderstandings of using analytics...you gotta know what does the number you measure really means
When you post up you possibly can get the opponents in foul trouble like Shaq always got his opponents in foul trouble
That's not a good example though. Shaq was incredibly dominant and more often than not the only way to stop him was with a foul. Not only that, but fouling him was a good option cause he was terrible at the line.
Jorge Cahvez is KP Shaq?
Not quite my tempo It was a bad one when you’re in the bonus and you have to stop Kobe as well & he didn’t really miss from the free throw line .
Shaq is a fat guy so technically he's not prone to injury. KP is not stupid to take the risk.
Tomato Madness What? The fuck logic is that. If you’re fat as shit like Shaq you’re WAY MORE prone to injury.
“Post up is not a good play anymore...”
Tim Duncan: “Was I a joke to you?!”
well they still didnt chuck up that many 3s when timmy played
Tim Duncan and the SPURS is the reason that today's teams are not bating on post up plays they prefer to defend the 3 ball rather than double teaming the player in the post...
Yeah he retired about the time the nba changed like this, and his last few years they had him at center
When you say Anymore, what does that mean to you?
Lol, did you understand the context?
Here is my thing without looking at this video first (I am a Mavs and Pelicans fan)
The post is necessary. KP needs to take more shot. It takes pressure off him and the team late game and it allows them to slow the game. You could take advantage of the double for the open shot which makes your offense better. In the playoffs when they start taking away the 3 ball you need that post player to grind players down and open up those shots. For example if they matchup with the Lakers and they start taking away their 3. I would like to see Luka and KP in the post on the mismatch. That means AD or Javale is gonna come help or whoever is near. Now if he makes a pass they will stay off him. Which leaves the mismatch. If they double they get the open shot. If you do this to certain players you can wear them down. The post is incredible important. It is a necessity. I think KP needs more footwork training and he needs to work better at getting his positioning. Those 2 things would help. You mean to tell me Rondo on KP in the post isnt a matchup you wouldnt wanna exploit? Bullshit. I will take that matchup every night.
How can you be a fan of two team? LMAO😂🤦
@@Ryanlexz easy. I lived in both locations and say "I love the team of the places I live". There is no rule saying you cant be.
I feel like he meant the value of post up situations in general is plummeting
But he just proved how untrue that is. It leads to the two best shots in the Gabe today ope 3’s and layups.
Warriors always post up either green or Kd during their title run. When the ball is in the post you have so many options.
Shaul yehudah well they are still plummeting. When you look at the best post up players in the league, none of them except Joel Embiid exceed the efficiency that their team has on offense meaning that post-ups aren’t better than the average offensive possession even for the best players. This was not the case a decade ago.
@@shaulyehudah29 you get open threes from Luka's league-best drives to the basket, you get offensive rebounds from Porzingis dragging his man away from the basket to the arc
@@ephraimdivina4828 the Warriors lived off transitions, threes, off-ball movement and some set plays
the post was not a factor
When you shoot threes you take the opposing teams height out of the game, come on Chuck!
@Hey Mister DJ yeah but you want a tall player guarding the basket lmao, would you rather have Gobert guarding the line or the rim?
Tyler Hatch - That’s not what Chuck said. He meant/said: “When he (Porzingis) shoots threes... he takes his (own) size (advantage) out of the game.” And Barkley is right about that. Porzingis is not getting any rebounds, or getting any opposing big men in foul trouble when he is shooting lots of threes. So his numbers suffer.
Ya brick a 3 and tall guy gets rebound with 0 energy used and 0 contest. Brilliant plan dumbass
His team, including him, outrebound most opponents BECAUSE he is dragging his man away from the rim.
@@majormarketing6552 Seeing as how the Mavericks are currently 5th in the west, I'd say that their strategy is working pretty well.
this game is not changing , even shaq or yao ming, exist in this era, they can still dominate in paint and score at least 25 points per game
Post spin move is the PF equivalent of a PG cross over.
If its alright to cross over and drive the lane or pick and roll but not LP move drawing help or the dunk?
Balanced all around game for individuals and teams.
The problem is it doesn’t create good spacing in the paint. Having one player remain in the post clogs up the lane I think
@@club6525 you the player create space and use the lane provided/created by the team spacing
@@club6525 also you have many give and go or cross court options from low or high
@@TheTraveller09 It’s just better spacing-wise I think. Despite the give-and-go options, it creates less space and allows easier defense I think
@@club6525 key is defensive mind set then, and in today's nba that is perhaps not as intensively maintained in general so can be exploited...I here your point
He's sticking up for his player. Early on he posted up a lot and kept getting the ball knocked out of his hands or couldn't make the shot.
The reason why he is missing all those shots in the first three minutes is because he is catching the ball from way too far. If he caught it another three feet closer to the basket its a much better play...
I agree but it's because he's so damn tall that all the smaller players bully him on the catch. That's why he's catching it from so far out.
Yeah, their shoulder is in his knee (exaggerating but point made) which makes it hard to move.
Great video coach. One of my favorites, and I’m a long time viewer!
KP was killing in the post in NY with a lesser team. Im surprised he doesn't post up KP at all.
Well still he can't bring NY to the playoff evendo he was kiling in the post
@@Ryanlexz Before he was injured they were in the playoffs race...
@@noahamankwaah9802 if that so? Knicks is still 10
To 14 seats in the eastern conference yo in 2014,2015,2016,2017,2018 tho. That ain't no playoffs race
@@Ryanlexz And that how I knew that most NBA's fans have short memories...
"Before Porzingis was injured, the Knicks, five games behind the Philadelphia 76ers for the last playoff spot" Extract from the article of Washington post written on February 7, 2018.
@@noahamankwaah9802 lmao yet Knicks rank 15 seat in 2018 season. One game ain't gonna change anything yo🤦😂
low post plays provides variety to a team's offense, the best thing it can offer is that it can change the phase of the game, from running a fast phase offense to a slow half court set up which can be beneficial if ur team struggles with shooting 3s and can't produce buckets, most of the best NBA scorers has a low post go to moves, the same with a go to mid range pull up jump shot. even though the game has changed drastically it doesn't mean that low post inside game is not reliable anymore, they can do analytics all they want but a player cannot always hit those 3 points shots. plays from the low post provides many openings,it can be a kick out to the 3, a cut to a team mate in the middle, a back door cut,a score from the low post player, etc. what's good about the kick out 3 from the low post is that the pass can be made and the recipient of the pass has time to balance himself,square up his' shoulder in preparation which increases the chance of making the shot.
On offence we need to treat him like a wing player, when he crosses the half court on D he morphs into a 7’3 rim defender
I miss the post game.... you can`t rival the excitement of 80s-90s NBA..... All these 3s cause long rebounds and results in bad defense
Golden State Warriors adding Kevin Durant killed it for Centers.
A so-called "Death Lineup" with Kevin Durant & Draymond Green as the post players. 😞😞😞
Their speed would force traditional Centers to the bench.
DeAndre Page yes it just showed a blueprint to beat them
Bring shaq back and both of these would sit on the bench 1st quarter due to 3 early fouls.
small misunderstanding: i think the "value has plummeted" comment was about the post-up in general, not the value of luka in the post
great vid as always coach!
I side with Carlisle in this debate. Imagine nitpicking a guy who has the most efficient offense in history and it’s not even like that roster is that stacked
It can be better you always have to adapt and change before teams catch on
About KP specifically hes right, but post ups arent low value if you have a guy whos good at them.
I've been telling people this for a long time. A god-tier post player will destroy people 1v1 in the post, getting easy buckets under to hoop. And if they get doubled someone is wide open at the 3 point line, getting one of the best shots in basketball. Thank you so much for explaining what I feel like yelling at the screen every time someone says that post-ups are bad or that post play is dead. If anything post play is even more useful now as players are hitting the 3 way better than ever before.
Shaq warned us when they eliminated the Center position from the All-Star Game
Love your videos, great content every time coach!
Love Bballbreakdown’s content but the fact that this needs to be reiterated is crazy. If you only understand basketball 101 you understand the benefits of the ball being entered to the low post, regardless of the efficiency of any given player actually posting up.
Or just how unstoppable a center can be. NBA players skill and athleticism make the league itself a phenomenon. In the competitive settings that 95% percent of us get to compete in, if the tallest player on the floor has even decent footwork he"ll be a problem for his opponents.
@@421less1 A new Shaq-Like player will come and change this again
Over the last month (Feb 2020), Porzingis is averaging 26 points, 10 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 2 blocks while hitting almost 4 3-pointers per game....looks like whatever he's doing is working...
they couldn't trade him fast enough
A Master move from a quality coach. Take the heat off one of his big guns. And leaving room for surprises for the playoffs.
Well said
I agree. It’s sad to see how the post up game has gone from legends like Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, etc. and even guards like Jordan being impossible to stop in the post to where it’s almost a lost art form. Lakers and Nuggets demonstrating that size matters this past year so hopefully the league is going to wake up to reality at some point.
Chuck and Shaq are right, and if there is someone to criticize KP, Chuck and Shaq are the perfect guys and nobody can say they are worng, KP's ass is 7'3 if he doesn't take advantage of the height what else can he take, we know he is a great shooter but he ain't Steph Curry, he needs to post up players down low like for example Aldridge, that man is one of most consistent players ever, and he has been averaging 18-20 ppg for almost his entire career.
@Forrest Hunter exactly, I hate seeing player shoot 3's when they know they are trash at it, I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt one, I'm saying if your body is tall then go post someone down low, if you are a Steph Curry or James Harden then you can shoot threes, my God I miss Tim Duncan,
@bballbreakdown your videos make me love the game even more
Post ups offer so much more flexibility to the offence. Knowing how effective Luka is....I think RC is just trying to misdirect everyone else
Mic drop at the end. Love it.
The Mavs have one of the best offenses of all time don´t they? Kristaps might be tall, but he can´t back up anybody. He is not a world class shooter, i give you that, but the spacing is working for them. Obviously Carlise knows, that the postup is not obsolete in the game of Basketball, but even if it sometimes generates open shots, it still slows the game down and that is the opposite of what the mavs are going for right know and the wins proof them right. So i am completly on Carlise side when he is "pissed" when guys like Barkley and Shaq tell him how to do his job. There will always be a place for postups, just not like in the "good old days"...because it wont win enough games anymore. Saying that all teams should post up more is a big generalisation and just not true, like nba coaches would just trust some statheads and dont think for themselves :/ sorry had to get that of my chest
Happy New Year everybody :)
The Mavs are boring to watch who want to watch 3 pointers all game they will never win a championship like that.
Great stuff! This is one great qualitative analysis to backup those data
pretty sure Carlisle knows what he's talking about moreso than a youtube analyst
cookiefp arm chair analysis
cookiefp this guy 100% knows ab the game of basketball and is a coach and trainer too
Why are you acting like nba staff haven't made stupid ass decisions before?
@@djvibes3704 the mavs are the best offense in the league and one of the best ever... I wouldn't say that Carlisle makes stupid decisions when planning his offense...
@@miguelmacian6760 so were the rockets in 2017 and 2018. Some shit looks good on paper but theres just some laws that you gotta follow in the nba and one of the most important is a complex scoring scheme. Adding layers of complexity to an offense is always a good thing. Porzingis would add a huge dimension to his offense if he could become an above average passer out of the post and could somewhat reliably body a smaller defender in the paint as that would inevitably open up more shots for him.
there was an art to playing in the post that involved good footwork and sealing the defender so you could get good position underneath the basket and shoot high percentage shots.
i miss the spin moves, drop-steps, pivots of post players back when the nba was dominated by them - it's a shame none of those things will come back to the game anytime soon.
Same. It makes me sick man.
NBA is literally a 3 point contest now, beauty of the game is gone like pop said
Idk man it’s still beautiful to me
said by the guy who ran a system which basically needs a 3 pt shot for a duncan post up to be effective..
Idk about you but a post up kick to an open 3 is a beauty to me 🤷🏻♂️
Id rather watch Alley oops, Dunks, Fancy Footwork getting to the basket and throw in some ISO mid range game then teams chucking up 40-50 3pt shots a game. I miss when teams just shot around 20 3pt shots a game instead and used it when they really needed them instead. Plus they actually played some defense
@@MistahJay7 NBA viewership was really low during that era. The general audience didn't like watching low scoring games where big men pounded it out. You might have liked those days, but it didn't bring in the big $$$.
Great video, Coach!
Rick defending the guys on his team.
like you cant tell me stuff like this doesnt build crazy chemistry.
A banger of a video to end 2019! And guess what NO ADS!!
So a high-school teacher is telling one of the top 5 coaches in the NBA how to run his offense. Makes sense...
Carlisle said that Luka was mediocre in the post and that KP was a historically great shooter. Either this is true or it's false. It has nothing to do with Coach Nick's job, lol. If that's your best argument, deep down you know you're wrong.
@@jjwil1991 what are you talking about. I am just commenting how a high school coach makes a 10 min video criticing onei the best coaches and coaching staffs in the world telling them how to do their job.
Happy new year. Thank you for your great videos!
I like Rick Carlisle, I feel like he is well deserving of his long tenure in Dallas. However, he often says or does some head scratching things, especially recently. I feel like Coach Nick's points are all valid. Things like passing out of the post, and offensive rebounding can't be overlooked. It's obvious that KP is struggling with his shooting out of the post, his turn around jumper which was solid in NY isn't as reliable right now. I feel like maybe he needs to be more focused on looking for a pass from the post, or putting some more aggressive moves to the basket. You hardly EVER see him spin to the basket and attack the rim, defenders are just sitting on the turn around. Something that made Dirk great for many years was that he would often spin to the basket so the defender couldn't just sit on the fadeaway, and I feel like it's something KP needs to do more often. Get to the free low line more often, and open up more second chance and kick out opportunities.
But yeah, posting up KP and Doncic occasionally should be a go to play for the Mavs, not every possession, but it's something that maybe Carlisle doesn't fully realize the statistical values of?
KP is also probably out of condition physically, as well as being rusty skills wise, after a year off.
If KP isn't Posting up more this time next year, then it could be that the Coach doesn't understand the value 👍
I assume KP is being protected this season 😊
KP is no dirk tho which is why dirk was great for many years cause of his fadaway shots on the post.
@@Ryanlexz Agreed, Dirk's iconic move was the one legged fadeaway. However, what made Dirk a consistent scorer was that he got the foul line to shoot free throws often. So, even if his jump shot wasn't on, he could still get a lot of free points just by getting to the foul line. I feel like it's something that KP is lacking, he probably needs to attack the basket a little more.
@@Nelekets KP need to learn to adapt his game tho. Dirk is great for many years cause of his one leg fadeaway shot in the post but sadly that not enough for him to win mutiple championship tho.
Really solid video coach!!
When KP gets hot, he’s a mix of a PG & Center
This is a simple way to look at it: One player has to try to get into the paint every possession. You can do it like James Harden, driving to the hole from the 3 point line, or you can do it from the post up. Those are two of the very few ways you can do it. Spreading the floor with shooters is great, and it increases team points per possession. But someone has to drive to the hole. And posting up is a legitimate way to get your feet into the paint.
1) Luka's post-up stats are great exactly because they're so selective about when to post up.
2) Another reason to not post up is injuries and overall wear on players' bodies. Centers live in constant pain.
Really great analysis. The erosion of good footwork definitely contributes to how coaches don't want to go to the post often. Watching bigs today post-up and shoot a hook shot is so cringey. Also, a lot of centers and power forwards back in the day had shots such as fadeaways and even face-up shots, making them more lethal in the post. The bigs don't do that anymore. The threat of the post is largely gone because the players' skill in the post is largely gone.
True but here’s a thought- spend some of your millions of dollars and bring in Shaq and Kareem and dream and teach these kids how to play in the post.
his roll has changed, his efficiancy will improve as he gets more comfortable in the dallas system.
Based on what? Dude is a career 43% shooter. He’s never been efficient in his career.
love you coach have a great new year lets go for a mil!
This case is more like a decent coach with amazing players. They make it work because the players are great while plays can be better but not bad.
Dallas Mavericks coach has always been a curmudgeon. 😀😀😀
Abrasive as all get out.
This guy thinks he is fooling somebody, but he is easy to read = you got a bunch of soft Euro-League Players, so you are trying to use finesse.
Luka Doncic does majority James Harden step-backs.
DeAndre Page sure but he is also one of the best passers in the nba without a question
@@gunnarkoger2259 Yes, solid finesse player, so teams should beat him up physically every chance they get.
Take a couple of fouls intentionally just to bruise Luka Doncic a little bit.
Exploit Doncic's below-average defensive ability.
DeAndre Page yeah ig but just labeling him as a ‘solid finesse player’ when he’s dropping 30 point triple doubles every other night it feels a little disingenuous to me
@@deandrepage1048 u know who finney smith is? He is a having a career year hitting threes brunson is great as well fucking dwight powell is rebounding like crazy carlile is a great coach and he proved that by watching him in the mavs worse years hell he even had an old ass barea playing great for so long
The old saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." If Porzingis is more effective as a long range shooter than at posting up, why change that type of offensive plan, just because he's tall?
People getting mad at Porzingis for this would be like if a point/shooting guard who is extremely fast, but excels in posting up and is the most effective at doing it has people telling him to stop because "he's not tall enough to do a post up game" and instead should use his speed to get open for 3s like Curry or drive to the lane like Westbrook.
They need to move the damn 3-point line out farther like they did in the 90's!!! It was supposed to be a rare and special thing, as basketball is supposed to be a mostly 2-point sport!! So since everyone can hit the 3 now, it's time to move it back so only special great shooters can hit it!!
Agreed! The game would be much interesting. Less points, better defense! This way with the stupid 3s, it's not even watchable sometimes
One of the biggest arguments against posting up is that it's far easier to double the post than it is to double the perimeter. With the (relatively) new defense rules enabling such wild defensive schemes, I've heard arguments that they should adjust the size of the paint accordingly. The Shaq Rule in particular seems very outdated for this era, and only serves to further punish post-up players at a time where the rules already do so in spades.
Me trying to read Rick Carlisle's podium:
"Ric-canary-isle?" Guy has canary in his name?
"[Puerto] Rican Airl...Airlines!" There's no such thing
Remembers where this is.
"American Airlines" -_-
Cringe
@@aram7863 Thanks captain obvious did you even read his entire comment
You might have misunderstood Carlisle‘s quote regarding KP‘s three-point shooting percentage from behind a specific area of the three-point line.
no he is a historically great shooter. How many 7'3 guys are shooting with the consistency that he is? You cant compare a 7'3 player to a guard like curry, the fact that he shoots it as well and as much as he does makes him historically great in this time period.
Aaron Iha Who lied to you? “Historically great” lol
where are these historically great numbers you speak of? Lol
EverythingCounts you gotta take into account that this is 7’3 guy who can spread the floor. His shooting is nowhere near players such as curry or klay but we have never seen a guy at his height do what he does. I’m not saying he is a great shooter I’m saying he is one of the first of his kind and very unique so what he does haven’t been done before
@@aaroniha Okay well kinda impossible to figure you're not saying he's a great shooter when your first comment literally says "he is a historically great shooter"
I could be wrong about this but it seemed to me that Carlisle was talking specifically about KP shooting from Dame Lillard deep range at the top of the key. Which they get a lot in transition when he sets drag screens. He’s too smart of a guy to have been talking about his overall 3pt percentage. But very valid points about not abandoning the post. Some of my favorite options come off low post split action.
2020
Make the NBA post up again
@16JAM77 or just allow contact from defenders
@16JAM77 I think it has more to do with the NBA believing its more exciting to watch, but last years playoffs were out of control. So much leg kicking, and jumping on top of defenders. I think more fans are getting sick of the way they officiate 3 pointers. If you push the 3pt line out further, they will just adapt, but I'd rather see them adapt to contact, whether that means more creative plays, more creative ball handling or just busting shots while the defender is inside their jersey 😂
16JAM77 eliminate the corner 3.
Maximizing your player's potential by putting him in positions to succeed should always be a the #1 priority. It's not a detriment to the league because your player doesn't have the necessary footwork or mechanics to succeed in the post. That's relative to the individual personnel and also organization philosophy but don't speak that into existence because YOUR guys dont work in post play
Too many 4a and 5a shooting 3a for spacing. Instead of running offense and motion it's all pick n roll.
Excellent video
thank you Coach N
Thank you! Basketball as a simple game.
Don't think that's the point here, or true, but OK.
hey man
great analysis
thanks for your work
Kristaps needs one year to be himself. Everybody does who misses a hole year.
He was talking about the value of post ups in general has tanked, not specifically Doncic post ups
Walter Flanagin he even mentioned that Doncic was occasionally posted up against smaller guards in the same sentence.
He is my favorite player on the Mavericks 🤩
Always thought the game of basketball is about creating mismatches and double teams. Always thought postups dribble hand offs, big man little man pick and rolls (off ball and on ball) and hard screens where the bread and butter of efficiency. I loved how you mentioned guards should post up more per their leverage. Reminded me about the center chuck hayes, how he never had a jump shot, but his leverage and playmaking made him a valuable asset on every team regardless of being a 6-6 center. Dude was a beast in pinch post
Coach, I’m so glad I ran into your channel 😢
When will these 3pt Analy-idiots realize that throwing in the post doesn’t necessarily mean you have to shoot a post -back -to-basket inefficient jump shot...
But it’s about controlling the game from the MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR
I hope your videos reach rick, kp IS A THREAT AT THE POST, whether he shoots or not, love that.
The 's' is pretty strong in this video.
Maybe try and edit that down a bit...
What do you mean?
@@phquiste3504 You can turn down the sibilants when editing a video so that you won't hear the 's' different from the other letters
5:43 he didn’t say the value of the Luka Doncic post up has plummeted. He was referring to the post up in general.
I’ll comfortably watch Rick Carlisle and Mavs get exposed in the first round. Letting Porzingis pull up from the logo like Curry will only get you so far😂
That's what i worry about him. Carlise shortsight or ego might cause Mavs playoffs games.
Curry is overrated yo, dude try so hard to be Micheal Jordan. No wonder he didn't want to get traded to other team cause he know he be trash. Hey atless the Mavs back in the playoff 😂
100% agree Houston gonna destroy them
Imagine thinking curry isn't an amazing player
yep. the same kinda plebs said the same thing about the Warriors before they went all time. #charles
that BBALLBREAKDOWN for you
a great take
Anyone who watched Barkley's Suns in the 90's would know how dangerous the post-up can be with the right player.
yes, when you could play with your back against the basket for 24 seconds if you wanted to. You know the rules have changed right?
@@doksfrommars The concept is still the same--post up, force a double team, and kick out, or mix it up with cutters to the rim. Lebron has been very effective with this throughout his career.
To be fair, at 5:30 I don't think he was even talking about Luka post-ups SPECIFICALLY; it sounded like he was speaking about the post-up as a play in general, which would be correct as the game currently exists. PLUS, pretty sure he wasn't referring to KP's 3pt% total, but deep range 3's.
Oh, he specifically said KP shooting 3s.
He did technically say that, so I'll clarify that I'm giving him some benefit that he's not completely out of his mind. Seemed like he was meaning to say "far behind the arc" or something, or would've just said "Threes" without complicating it. That and I watch Mavs games and he does hit a ton of deep 3's, though I'd be lying if I said I knew what % it is, say 3+ ft behind the arc, but wouldn't be shocked if HE knew that stat. But yeah, I pretty much agree with the rest of the sentiment in the vid!