very funny. as someone who was looking forward to Zen 5 it managed to be the most disappointing release in the past few years, even more so than the shitty 11900K. The fact that none of AMD's current offerings trounce my 14900KS is astounding. meanwhile intel's Arrow Lake does have something to be impressed at, namely their energy efficiency (which was the focus of this generation) plus temperature management. it does extremely well in that regard while still being above AMD in multithreaded performance. and it's just a taste of their new tiled chiplet design and what's to come. expect performance double downs and triple downs with future generations, much like AMD's Zen 1, Zen 2 etc. not that it would matter though, because the fact is modern CPUs are all so fast you barely get any benefits from upgrading. And GPUs are so power hungry you might as well stick with a good midrange to highend offering from either company and call it a day. as for AMD, dunno what to expect anymore. Zen 5 was one of the things I anticipated the most and I have never been so let down. I am legitimately more interested in their GPUs than CPUs at this point. before you shout 'intel fanboy', i am actively using a 7800 XT in my Linux rig because well, Linux loves Radeon and I am tired of Nvidia. I have used Ryzens in the past and loved them. i'm just beginning to have much disdain for AMD's CPU group because of lack of any sort of improvements (apart from X3D but RIP productivity) and horrible pricing.
Hi Philip! Long time fan! I really enjoyed this video! It was chill and laid-back in the perfect way. I don't want to pretend I understood hardly anything you were talking about in it, but it was still a very pleasant video.
Last gen: NOOOO you can't just pump a ton of power into the CPU for more performance!!! This gen: NOOOO you can't take away power, think about the performance!!!
the issue is will 285K bring 10% more performance overclocked at 14900K power levels? I don't think so, TSMC nodes are know for not scaling with power. And the chiplet design is entirely a cost saving measure that introduced penalties with no benefit for consumers
The 9000 series isn't actually more power efficient than the 7000 series a lot of the time as proven by Gamers Nexus, but at least the new Intel chip has made improvement from the garbage efficiency of the 14 series, but it's still not very good. Though the new chips also pull a lot more power through the 24-pin cable than other series (on at least Asus motherboards) and if the reviewer doesn't know that it can seem more efficient than it is.
I care a lot about efficiency because poor efficiency translates into high heat and therefore high noise. I like my PC to be quiet when I'm playing quiet games, watching movies, doing work, or pretty much everything that isn't loud gaming or music. High efficiency is also very exciting news for laptops and handhelds that are always limited by thermals and that will see a much greater performance uplift. I also think that people overlook how much money you can save from the reduced energy consumption, especially in areas where electricity is expensive. You can easily save 100+ dollars over the lifespan of the CPU if you're a heavy user, so if you factor that into the total price of the product then it becomes a lot more exciting. We've seen remarkable performance gains every generation for a while now, but part of that is because TDP has also been going up and up. It's not sustainable long-term, at some point the focus must shift to efficiency, and that time seems to be now for CPUs. It's pretty boring but also necessary, and it leaves room for significant performance improvements down the line as TDP will inevitably start climbing back up again.
I still use my first PC that my parents bought in 2013 and it's still going to this day. It's now an old Xeon (basically a 3rd gen i7), 16gb of ddr3 ram, a 960GB SATA SSD and a GTX 1050 that i bought from a friend for like 30 bucks. But the motherboard, PSU and case are still exactly the same.
I just want to say I really enjoy those tech videos. The ones about JPEG XL and other compression algorithm were extremely enjoyable as well, please make more tech videos of that style, I like learning stuff
@@mariuspuiu9555 yes, but that means it isn't much more efficient either, it's just a 5% improvement in performance being touted as a massive efficiency increase by renaming the non X processors.
I think that people who complain about how there's been no performance gain never had to pay for their own electricity. I am kinda excited about the "same performance but for less power" way things are going, at least my room won't become a sauna the instant I start playing a game.
Gosh, I feel like I’ve seen shots of you running around and throwing cash about the place, photos and VR mattress madness - but to see you actually do a video on camera with the same music and style was so jarring and uncanny to me!! But in a good way, like when you are talking to a girl online for years and you finally meet up and she isn’t quite what you expected but you fall in love with her for a whole bunch of new reasons. Julia if your reading this I miss you i want to see the kids!!
Love how you've filmed this video in such a way that the people claiming you've been using AI just can't say anything. Considering I've never and never will be in such a position myself it feels a bit pointless to attempt to express my sympathies but having been on the receiving end of this kind of phenomenon where people are just assuming stuff that just ain't it, I appreciate how you've gone about responding to it, and along with your usual way of writing and doing these videos, it inspires me in how I can navigate these types of social problems myself. Thanks for being awesome, Philip :> P.S. I did actually enjoy that CS video you made with all the beans and whatnot, and the AI pictures helped to describe the story, which I think was a completely acceptable reason to use them. I think I understand where people are coming from though, so you should probably navigate that with care in the future. I see both sides but it's a rare situation where like, I mean, it really does depend on who you ask, eh? P.S.S Do you plan on making a Discord server? Would love to chat there, never really been big on UA-cam comments.
I like this type of chill video explaining this all, I've lost touch lately with the latest CPUs etc as happy still with my current setup, thanks Philip + enjoyed the bloopers/mistakes, thanks for keeping those in
I love your computer part videos, i really hope you will make a video on power supplies at some point, i think there is some interesting history to be discussed
I was already following you when you were covering hl2, it truly is a blessing to have a person like you still making videos and still being real 10 years later, I love what you do and what you choose to talk about, thank you for your beautiful work ❤️
Thank you for always sharing your passion with us Philip! It's really nice to be able to come back to a familiar voice and just sorta indulge into topics that remind us of how things used to be, what's happen now, and what we might see in the future. The fact you're able to keep this down to a 10 minute video is really refreshing. I appreciate your efforts to keep this edited down and digestible, as I feel far too often we are seeing things trend to either being far too short, or far too long. All in all, thank you for always staying true Philip.
edit: Beneficiaries to halving CPU and GPU power usage for the same performance: • The largest customers: Your language model training farm can now double its size before maxing out the national grid or the nuclear power station you built to power it. • People who find BRRRRR 💥 all day sanity defeating: Perhaps increased efficency could mean decreased fan DB, to sell this make sure that fan decibels is listed in the spec. • Semi-classic gamers: Anyone who needs some performance but who doesn't benefit from it being state of the art could see the upsides of a lower electricity bill as being all benifit.
The largest customers are not training giant language models on a _CPU._ I wouldn't be surprised if even a bog-standard GPU would provide better power efficiency given that it is more specialized for the task, nevermind dedicated TPU units.
i actually dont hate the new visual focus, i mostly watch your videos for you so having you front and centre in the frame is really nice actually. on the topic of the video, idk im still on am4 with a 5800x3d and i dont feel the need or desire to upgrade for a while. maybe ill get a new gpu as i just grabbed a 1440p monitor and my 6700xt is starting to chug in some games, but i just moved so i have no money for a while. all the more reason the power efficiency of amd is a blessing
I 100% agree that efficiency is what will matter in the short-to-medium term. We have all been collectively moving to smaller and more portable devices, mostly because of our smartphones, tablets and other such gadgets. And _by far_ the #1 thing holding their power back is just that. Power. Not in terms of performance, but raw wattage. In other words: battery capacity. Unfortunately, we are pretty much at a standstill with significant improvement to battery tech-despite heavy investment and even some successes by multiple companies. There's just no real generational improvements like what we see, and have been seeing, in terms of processing. So, the only way we can achieve those leaps is by making our existing high power devices less inefficient. Because there _is_ a lot of room there. As they have always been primarily targeted at a desktop landscape, efficiency was always left behind in terms of raw performance. Now, that finally seems to be changing. And I couldn't be more excited.
One thing I've thought about is how human nature tends to favour inefficiency. You have 4 machines in your factory, and with all 4 running you are just barely under the max power limit you have available in your factory. So new machines come out that use 50% the energy for the same output. What we do every time is to double the number if machines and continue riding the power limit, instead of halving the power consumption for the same output. This is just the way we prioritize. So when CPUs etc seem to not offer more output, and only do the same thing but more efficiently... It's just not sexy. Of course, this is an oversimplification, but it felt relevant.
ngl i am excited for better power efficient x86 chips. imagine them being able to do the same type of performance on and off the outlet, not needing to slow down or need such crazy cooling solutions.
It'll be really great for laptops. Macs have been destroying windows laptops for too long now in power efficiency. And the snapdragons are a marketing joke for laptops at the minute.
5:05 small correction: only epyc and threadripper used chiplets in the 1st generation. It was only with Zen 2 (3000 series) that they started using chiplets in mainstream CPUs too
Honestly, the lower power requirements from newer AMD cpus is great. I love having more choices for cooling, possibly saving money. Only problem is, that saved money doesn’t matter went it was spent on the cpu. At least it doesn’t have a stupid name or incinerate itself
My biggest pet peeve with modern PC hardware is how much companies have been over-prioritizing raw power and performance over efficiency. Imo this is the best route things could be going right now, because the industry is long overdue for this kind of optimization.
I really appreciate the laid back philip, with the "fuck" catches me out hearing Philip say them, but they make the video alot better lol. The cherry on top is the high quality 4k 60fps lol. Needs more cat footage though, for viewer retention when cutting away from Philips handsome mug and power pose. Thanks for this video Philip.
When my old desktop, beast of a machine for its time, started bluescreening, I went looking for a new computer. Jesus Christ, tech just keeps getting better. Even the cheapest gaming laptop is 10x more powerful than the old fulltower desktop, at same cost, yet shrunk to a form factor I can carry in a backpack and power from a solar panel. Performance just doesn't matter to me anymore. What matters is that my computer doesn't chain me to a desk!
I really like the video content from 2kliksphilip. This is the first time that I got the same POV as Philip before this video is published. Most of the people focus on the performance only, but they ignore that power efficiency is a problem that should be aware as well. When Intel announced the latest generation with new architecture, I was excited because of the design reason behind. The younger me always thought that performance is the most important and wants more FPS. The current, who needs to pay electric bill, understood that my PC with 4090 is a power hungry beast. That makes me use my Macbook Air more than my main PC to get my job done, except AI training.
guessing that a large part of the reason for the efficiency focus is ARM's comparatively high efficiency. I'm pretty happy with this upgrade, since I was already planning on undervolting my next build for a more silent rig with lower energy costs.
It's really sad because not only does it mean these new generations are bashed for not improving much, but the next generation will have to do a lot for people to be happy and I'm already guessing people will be disappointed in Zen 6 and Core 300S
My personal hot take is that this gen is actually pretty fine, for the following reasons. -We NEED wider adoption of modern Instruction Sets like AVX-512 to motivate developers to take advantage of them to boost performance and increase battery life. -Nobody loses here, people who get the latest and greatest OR have to upgrade now (maybe with a laptop) yield the benefits, people on last gen dont have FOMO to spend money again AND "bang for buck" people now enjoy current gen performance at a discount. As long as this isnt a permanent trend everybody wins here, even the passive cooled couch PC people...
Hyper-Threading only works if the core is bottlenecked and has empty pipeline stages to be filled by the Hyper-Threading. Meteor Lake (intel 100H series) gets 4% extra Integer and 17% extra Floating point performance from Hyper-Threading and Lunar/Arrow Lake cores are even less bottlenecked and Hyper-Threading would give 3-10% extra performance at 100% thread utilization.
Yeah, so realistically desktop PCs aren't utilizing anywhere near 100% threads - that's also why ryzen efficiency claims compared to intel core, are farfetched considering higher idle consumption. It's generally good move, even if benchmarks suffer.
@@tteqhu no, AMD chiplet based CPUs have higher idle power draw because the I/O is always active. Arrow Lake reviews are out and now we can see that Arrow Lake efficiency is on par with Zen5.
@@rattlehead999 What are you refuting exactly? I said they consume more power, and you agreed with me? And I still can't wholeheartedly take power efficiency benchmarks, as real use is neither a stress test nor a wallpaper simulator.
@@tteqhu blender, techpowerup tests blender and a ton of games. And again, the non-X 7000 series are hard capped at 88W and can't consume more no matter what, unless you manually go and overclock them and remove the cap. The 7000X CPUs are dumb, the 9000 series outside the 9950x have good power consumption and are easy to cool, but cost way too much for the minimal improvements they have. Idle power does NOT correlate with maximum power draw.
Zen 5 being a bit underwhelming really shouldn’t make people feel like they’ve been “robbed” of long term support value. AM4 wasn’t astounding value because you could upgrade every cpu generation, it was because people were able to go from a 2700x in 2018 to a 5800X3D in 2022 for nearly a 100% increase in performance. It’s also unclear currently if there’s another technology coming soon that’ll have as drastic of an impact as X3D, and zen in general now is much more mature and optimized than Zen 2 was back then. A lot of gamers will be starting their AM5 experience on 7800X3D so at the end of the socket’s life they might “only” get a 40-50% bump. As someone building PCs since 2010, this is still great value; I’ve been on Intel only so far and an in-socket upgrade has never to made ANY sense on their models. The one that came the closest I did recently (12600K->14700K) has really made me wish I just switched to AM5 instead. Would have cost damn near the same and been faster overall.
You know what, I was a bit worried when you said before that the quality will drop a little, so you can drop more videos and not stress as much, but the scripts are still on point (arguably the most important part of your videos) and this is kinda funny anyway. Bring back good old UA-cam where it was just a guy sitting all weird and staring at you awkwardly.
The focus on power efficiency over performance reminds me of Multics being overshadowed by Unix. Worse at first, but it builds a foundation for much better systems
Power efficiency is important. They really jumped the wattage shark last generation. Both companies should agree on a specific wattage target, probably something like 100 or 120 watts. and then go back to letting people overclock on their own, if they want. The trend of every cpu and gpu coming pre-overclocked from the factory isn't really overclocking. it just kills the enthusiast motivation to seek gains.
I'm always suprised how level-headed your perspectives stay. I certainly see this generation as the first since, what was it, the 11000 or 12000 generation from Intel to really bring back a balance in power/performance. Though what I'm utterly disappointed in is the prices of these processors. I was thinking of the 265K + iGPU, but when I have to consider the outlook what a successor of the 8700G will likely bring to the table in iGPU performance and price reduction after half a year, I'm not so sure if Intel really has closed the gap, not to talk about the X3D AMD models in comparison.
Why is nobody talking about heat production? I measure 28+°C in my apartment in summer. The last thing I want to do in summer is to spin up my 3090 and add a few degrees more. Efficiency is getting more and more important. No sane person would turn on a 700W heater in summer. But that's what we do to get the latest and best graphics...
I'm probably the only one excited about them purely because they add more PCIE lanes and bandwidth, especially lanes not bottlenecked by going through the chipset. I will admit that almost nobody else needs to attach 16 hard drives though
For desktops, I feel for the most part this doesn't matter much. But I truly hope we continue to see improvements in efficiency when it comes to laptops and mobile chips overall. I feel I'm starting to get to a point where other than for gaming, more performance is sorta just excessive... I've always dreamed of the day when we could see laptops as portable and as energy efficient as those old school Windows CE PDAs, as being able to just stuff something in a backpack for weeks and pulling it out at any time you need for all day use would be amazing. Especially with Linux becoming more and more accessible, I'd love to see just how far we could push a computer to just last all day and go to and from a full suspend with minimal power usage.
While it is really boring and dissapointing for people who are aiming to upgrade right now, for us that have just upgraded this is honestly great since it means that the products that come out next gen or the gen after that will probably get a lot more power and have the power efficiency from this generation along with it.
Honestly I'm kinda hyped for the power efficiency war, I just hope it also goes for GPUs. With the exponential improvement of procesing power over the last 15-20 years it's fairly logical to have the next step be all about optimization overall rather than even MORE performance. Who knows maybe 15-20 years from now, once the oceans have dried up because of global warming, we'll be playing hyper realistic VR games on a 300W power supply.
I just build my first PC all AMD over the summer (7900xt and 7800x3d) so I'm glad to know that if I had waited I basically only would've gotten a slightly lower power bill.
Zen 5 is pretty big on server, but they didn't bother with a new IO die on desktop which does hamper the performance quite a bit. The gains of full path AVX512 will probably come a few years down the line when software catches up.
AMD is just trying to squeeze the most out of early adopters, it's smart business. It's funny how bad it hurts the value proposition though, and when a gamer sees a 10% uplift for $500 (not counting a motherboard) they just wait for the next big thing.
No point upgrading if the jump is less than say 25-30%. Usually that takes 2-3 generations to get that much. Especially on intel side. So thats 4-6 years. I doubt 9800x3d is going to have more than 10% jump over 7800x3d. But i also wont be surprised if its close to 20% due to higher clocks and higher ram speed support.
I'm all up for power efficiency gains for x86 chips quite frankly, there really ought to be more competition efficiency wise to the arm stuff in laptops It's really cool how different the intel and amd chips are built despite being pretty competitive with each other appreciate the klikspread, godspeed
The fundamental problem with Zen 5 is that it effectively promised Ryzen 7-ish Zen 4 performance for Ryzen 5-ish TDPs. I was hyped for exactly that. But it didn't materialize.
Power efficiency is actually kind of important to me. I have a Ryzen 5 7600 which is not superfast, but it is totally sufficient for 4K 60fps gaming on Linux, at least in the games that I play. I don't feel that it is bottlenecking my 4070 Super. I went with the cheaper CPU and the more expensive graphics card, that's why I don't have an X3D, but it actually works fine, and I can't afford a higher refresh rate monitor with a high enough resolution anyway. At this point, I am more nervous about my electricity bill and more interested in new features. It seems like most very compute intensive tasks these days have been offloaded to the GPU anyway.
I'm fully with you. It's so sad that the vocal youtube majority doesn't give two farts about power efficency at equal performance. But to be fair to the reviewers, zen 4 was already very power efficient, you just had force zen 4 in being efficient via bios yourself. And that option seems to be so unpopular, that there is not much youtube views to be had with. So zen 5 isn't that much more efficient when compared to an undervolted and watt limited zen 4.
why is he klikspreading at me
lmao
If his tone was genuine in the comments, he is annoyed at people constantly accusing him of using AI for his voice.
sex appeal
he’s kliksplaining too
@@WooberJig I would be too when they are accusing him of AI over so much basic stuff that clearly isnt
Zen +5% vs Intel Ultra -2.85% 🔥🔥🔥
Zen ± 5% vs Intel Ultra -28.5%
dont forget the nvidia RTX 5090$
@@KurkkulimuRTX $5090 +TAX
😂
very funny. as someone who was looking forward to Zen 5 it managed to be the most disappointing release in the past few years, even more so than the shitty 11900K. The fact that none of AMD's current offerings trounce my 14900KS is astounding.
meanwhile intel's Arrow Lake does have something to be impressed at, namely their energy efficiency (which was the focus of this generation) plus temperature management. it does extremely well in that regard while still being above AMD in multithreaded performance. and it's just a taste of their new tiled chiplet design and what's to come.
expect performance double downs and triple downs with future generations, much like AMD's Zen 1, Zen 2 etc. not that it would matter though, because the fact is modern CPUs are all so fast you barely get any benefits from upgrading. And GPUs are so power hungry you might as well stick with a good midrange to highend offering from either company and call it a day.
as for AMD, dunno what to expect anymore. Zen 5 was one of the things I anticipated the most and I have never been so let down. I am legitimately more interested in their GPUs than CPUs at this point.
before you shout 'intel fanboy', i am actively using a 7800 XT in my Linux rig because well, Linux loves Radeon and I am tired of Nvidia. I have used Ryzens in the past and loved them. i'm just beginning to have much disdain for AMD's CPU group because of lack of any sort of improvements (apart from X3D but RIP productivity) and horrible pricing.
What an opening shot!
hah, *opening*
cock reveal on kliksphilip I presume since that's the IRL content channel
Say that again
Hi Philip! Long time fan! I really enjoyed this video! It was chill and laid-back in the perfect way. I don't want to pretend I understood hardly anything you were talking about in it, but it was still a very pleasant video.
Thanks!
@@2kliksphilip Is this a self-AI-generated comment?
@@shiba7651 no.
@@shiba7651 Certainly!
Last gen: NOOOO you can't just pump a ton of power into the CPU for more performance!!!
This gen: NOOOO you can't take away power, think about the performance!!!
the issue is will 285K bring 10% more performance overclocked at 14900K power levels? I don't think so, TSMC nodes are know for not scaling with power. And the chiplet design is entirely a cost saving measure that introduced penalties with no benefit for consumers
The 9000 series isn't actually more power efficient than the 7000 series a lot of the time as proven by Gamers Nexus, but at least the new Intel chip has made improvement from the garbage efficiency of the 14 series, but it's still not very good. Though the new chips also pull a lot more power through the 24-pin cable than other series (on at least Asus motherboards) and if the reviewer doesn't know that it can seem more efficient than it is.
Next gen: NOOOO you can't just pump a ton of power into the CPU for more performance!!!
"Fk all" is probably my fav brit phrase 😂
The square root of fck all is much better ;)
Same
Fuckall is british? I had no idea
As a scot, you can't beat
"Get tae fk"
@@Alec_Reapermy fav scot line
"Wel'c tae Limmy Shoo"
I like that hes using a camera!
And he probably did it to not be called AI voiced for the millionth time as usual...
It's so uncanny, almost feels like one of those picture to video AIs
@@waduritoumm no?
@@wadurito you silly goose. an AI would never klikspread at you like that
lol he has the most AI-sounding voice thats why
This video didn't need to be in 4k 60 fps but I'm glad it is
You can zoom in for 1080p somewhere on the left.
60 fps is somethin
4k scrotum
I care a lot about efficiency because poor efficiency translates into high heat and therefore high noise. I like my PC to be quiet when I'm playing quiet games, watching movies, doing work, or pretty much everything that isn't loud gaming or music. High efficiency is also very exciting news for laptops and handhelds that are always limited by thermals and that will see a much greater performance uplift. I also think that people overlook how much money you can save from the reduced energy consumption, especially in areas where electricity is expensive. You can easily save 100+ dollars over the lifespan of the CPU if you're a heavy user, so if you factor that into the total price of the product then it becomes a lot more exciting.
We've seen remarkable performance gains every generation for a while now, but part of that is because TDP has also been going up and up. It's not sustainable long-term, at some point the focus must shift to efficiency, and that time seems to be now for CPUs. It's pretty boring but also necessary, and it leaves room for significant performance improvements down the line as TDP will inevitably start climbing back up again.
The chads who haven't upgraded their computer in 8 years watching this.
I still use my first PC that my parents bought in 2013 and it's still going to this day. It's now an old Xeon (basically a 3rd gen i7), 16gb of ddr3 ram, a 960GB SATA SSD and a GTX 1050 that i bought from a friend for like 30 bucks.
But the motherboard, PSU and case are still exactly the same.
My poor little i5 8600k just has to hold on for a few more months
i5-6400
1050Ti
solo 250GB SSD
using it since 2017, and going to for at least a couple more years
Up to six, still going strong!
me on a chromebook...
2 Manspreads Philip'e asserting dominance on the viewers.
I just want to say I really enjoy those tech videos.
The ones about JPEG XL and other compression algorithm were extremely enjoyable as well, please make more tech videos of that style, I like learning stuff
Why do people not know that Ryzen 7000 NON-X CPUs exist, they were already the efficient CPUs that the 9000 series are.
that's where the 5% comes from. at the same TDP it is around 5% faster.
@@mariuspuiu9555 yes, but that means it isn't much more efficient either, it's just a 5% improvement in performance being touted as a massive efficiency increase by renaming the non X processors.
@@iurigrang Yea its just marketing. Maybe the next gen will be worth looking at.
@@iurigrang Zen5 is 20-70% faster in data center and server workloads, that's where all the improvements and extra 1.2 billion transistors went.
i think this is the first video where you seemed to be very natural in front of the camera, great to see the improvement of our kind king philip :)
Not going to lie, it's a pleasure seeing this handsome man instead of some much more context-appropriate AI images
I think that people who complain about how there's been no performance gain never had to pay for their own electricity. I am kinda excited about the "same performance but for less power" way things are going, at least my room won't become a sauna the instant I start playing a game.
The spread legs with the three UA-cam plaques in the background is a power move if I've ever seen one.
Gosh, I feel like I’ve seen shots of you running around and throwing cash about the place, photos and VR mattress madness - but to see you actually do a video on camera with the same music and style was so jarring and uncanny to me!!
But in a good way, like when you are talking to a girl online for years and you finally meet up and she isn’t quite what you expected but you fall in love with her for a whole bunch of new reasons. Julia if your reading this I miss you i want to see the kids!!
that second paragraph sounded like something kliksphilip would say
Love how you've filmed this video in such a way that the people claiming you've been using AI just can't say anything. Considering I've never and never will be in such a position myself it feels a bit pointless to attempt to express my sympathies but having been on the receiving end of this kind of phenomenon where people are just assuming stuff that just ain't it, I appreciate how you've gone about responding to it, and along with your usual way of writing and doing these videos, it inspires me in how I can navigate these types of social problems myself. Thanks for being awesome, Philip :>
P.S. I did actually enjoy that CS video you made with all the beans and whatnot, and the AI pictures helped to describe the story, which I think was a completely acceptable reason to use them. I think I understand where people are coming from though, so you should probably navigate that with care in the future. I see both sides but it's a rare situation where like, I mean, it really does depend on who you ask, eh?
P.S.S Do you plan on making a Discord server? Would love to chat there, never really been big on UA-cam comments.
@0:14 should have used the Vsauce music
I would have commented this but I glance at the comments and fall out my chair
great. now it's all over the screen. thaks soo much Philip.
I love how AMD and Intel have literally swapped places. 10 years ago AMD were doing exactly what Intel are doing now
😂💯
I like this type of chill video explaining this all, I've lost touch lately with the latest CPUs etc as happy still with my current setup, thanks Philip + enjoyed the bloopers/mistakes, thanks for keeping those in
I love your computer part videos, i really hope you will make a video on power supplies at some point, i think there is some interesting history to be discussed
I was already following you when you were covering hl2, it truly is a blessing to have a person like you still making videos and still being real 10 years later, I love what you do and what you choose to talk about, thank you for your beautiful work ❤️
I though this is a new Fartmaster upload, in the beginning. Now i am sad.
i'm curious if showing your human self increases retention by a huge amount
Just gives me more entertaining filler footage than a blank screen and for less effort
Thank you for always sharing your passion with us Philip! It's really nice to be able to come back to a familiar voice and just sorta indulge into topics that remind us of how things used to be, what's happen now, and what we might see in the future. The fact you're able to keep this down to a 10 minute video is really refreshing. I appreciate your efforts to keep this edited down and digestible, as I feel far too often we are seeing things trend to either being far too short, or far too long. All in all, thank you for always staying true Philip.
Came for the analysis stayed for the anatomy
Read that as "Boer Wars" and was like "oh god not more of them"
Dude your mic is insane
It's so refreshing to not just hear the sound of your very distinctive voice but actually seeing the person as they produce that sound.
i usually skip the computer part vids cause I don't care (and too poor) for the bleeding edge but I like face cam on this one :) love u phillip xoxo
Strange how 2kliks philip stole his brothers gold play award just for an opening shot, i sure hope 3kliksphilip was okay with this theft!
What the hell is that pillow thing? It looks like it has a human body inside.
Hippopotamus
It is
...went to the Shire and bagged a big one.
edit: Beneficiaries to halving CPU and GPU power usage for the same performance:
• The largest customers: Your language model training farm can now double its size before maxing out the national grid or the nuclear power station you built to power it.
• People who find BRRRRR 💥 all day sanity defeating: Perhaps increased efficency could mean decreased fan DB, to sell this make sure that fan decibels is listed in the spec.
• Semi-classic gamers: Anyone who needs some performance but who doesn't benefit from it being state of the art could see the upsides of a lower electricity bill as being all benifit.
The largest customers are not training giant language models on a _CPU._ I wouldn't be surprised if even a bog-standard GPU would provide better power efficiency given that it is more specialized for the task, nevermind dedicated TPU units.
@@somdudewillson yep you're right, I was thinking GPUs
Pleasantly surprise to find an overview on this situation from you.
Although I am glad I did, this has to be the best commentary on this.
Great video, i like efficiency. That ai erased picture at the end made me again speechless over the power such tools can have.
Best Video I've seen on this topic so far. Can't wait for Ryzen 9X3D to see where the conversation goes next.
i actually dont hate the new visual focus, i mostly watch your videos for you so having you front and centre in the frame is really nice actually.
on the topic of the video, idk im still on am4 with a 5800x3d and i dont feel the need or desire to upgrade for a while. maybe ill get a new gpu as i just grabbed a 1440p monitor and my 6700xt is starting to chug in some games, but i just moved so i have no money for a while. all the more reason the power efficiency of amd is a blessing
I 100% agree that efficiency is what will matter in the short-to-medium term.
We have all been collectively moving to smaller and more portable devices, mostly because of our smartphones, tablets and other such gadgets.
And _by far_ the #1 thing holding their power back is just that. Power.
Not in terms of performance, but raw wattage.
In other words: battery capacity.
Unfortunately, we are pretty much at a standstill with significant improvement to battery tech-despite heavy investment and even some successes by multiple companies. There's just no real generational improvements like what we see, and have been seeing, in terms of processing.
So, the only way we can achieve those leaps is by making our existing high power devices less inefficient. Because there _is_ a lot of room there. As they have always been primarily targeted at a desktop landscape, efficiency was always left behind in terms of raw performance.
Now, that finally seems to be changing.
And I couldn't be more excited.
That cover is the most beautiful cover of all time and I will not have it otherwise.
Spreadmaster Philip showing off his sacc for the entire world to see
I don't know why, but the tasteful pose kept me hooked in the video.
Your videos are so damn cosy. I really like the direct to camera narration you're doing of late too.
One thing I've thought about is how human nature tends to favour inefficiency. You have 4 machines in your factory, and with all 4 running you are just barely under the max power limit you have available in your factory. So new machines come out that use 50% the energy for the same output. What we do every time is to double the number if machines and continue riding the power limit, instead of halving the power consumption for the same output.
This is just the way we prioritize.
So when CPUs etc seem to not offer more output, and only do the same thing but more efficiently... It's just not sexy.
Of course, this is an oversimplification, but it felt relevant.
Thank god for the efficiency improvements to make room the the 800W 50 series GPUs 😊😊
ngl i am excited for better power efficient x86 chips. imagine them being able to do the same type of performance on and off the outlet, not needing to slow down or need such crazy cooling solutions.
It'll be really great for laptops. Macs have been destroying windows laptops for too long now in power efficiency. And the snapdragons are a marketing joke for laptops at the minute.
5:05 small correction: only epyc and threadripper used chiplets in the 1st generation. It was only with Zen 2 (3000 series) that they started using chiplets in mainstream CPUs too
I am so happy to hear you cover new gen computer stuff, great video 👍
Honestly, the lower power requirements from newer AMD cpus is great. I love having more choices for cooling, possibly saving money. Only problem is, that saved money doesn’t matter went it was spent on the cpu.
At least it doesn’t have a stupid name or incinerate itself
i love it when you're talking in front of the camera! it feels fresh while distinctly being 3kliksphilip (or 2 or ) video :)
My biggest pet peeve with modern PC hardware is how much companies have been over-prioritizing raw power and performance over efficiency. Imo this is the best route things could be going right now, because the industry is long overdue for this kind of optimization.
I have no idea what he talked about, but it's always entertaining to listen to Philip.
Really like this ‘live’ format
I really appreciate the laid back philip, with the "fuck" catches me out hearing Philip say them, but they make the video alot better lol. The cherry on top is the high quality 4k 60fps lol. Needs more cat footage though, for viewer retention when cutting away from Philips handsome mug and power pose. Thanks for this video Philip.
please dont kill this talking series like you killed the ones before. I love listening you.
WIDE OPEN intro
Widescreen :))
When my old desktop, beast of a machine for its time, started bluescreening, I went looking for a new computer. Jesus Christ, tech just keeps getting better. Even the cheapest gaming laptop is 10x more powerful than the old fulltower desktop, at same cost, yet shrunk to a form factor I can carry in a backpack and power from a solar panel.
Performance just doesn't matter to me anymore. What matters is that my computer doesn't chain me to a desk!
I really like the video content from 2kliksphilip.
This is the first time that I got the same POV as Philip before this video is published.
Most of the people focus on the performance only, but they ignore that power efficiency is a problem that should be aware as well.
When Intel announced the latest generation with new architecture, I was excited because of the design reason behind.
The younger me always thought that performance is the most important and wants more FPS.
The current, who needs to pay electric bill, understood that my PC with 4090 is a power hungry beast.
That makes me use my Macbook Air more than my main PC to get my job done, except AI training.
guessing that a large part of the reason for the efficiency focus is ARM's comparatively high efficiency. I'm pretty happy with this upgrade, since I was already planning on undervolting my next build for a more silent rig with lower energy costs.
the "just f**k me on price" aesthetic intro is a choice. ;)
It's really sad because not only does it mean these new generations are bashed for not improving much, but the next generation will have to do a lot for people to be happy and I'm already guessing people will be disappointed in Zen 6 and Core 300S
I'm glad I paused the video and said "jesus phil honey, perform performance?" and then you paused the video and went in on phil too. Ly philly babes x
I like the efficiency. The tick/tock cycle worked pretty good and has historically been what CPU manufacturers do.
My personal hot take is that this gen is actually pretty fine, for the following reasons.
-We NEED wider adoption of modern Instruction Sets like AVX-512 to motivate developers to take advantage of them to boost performance and increase battery life.
-Nobody loses here, people who get the latest and greatest OR have to upgrade now (maybe with a laptop) yield the benefits, people on last gen dont have FOMO to spend money again AND "bang for buck" people now enjoy current gen performance at a discount.
As long as this isnt a permanent trend everybody wins here, even the passive cooled couch PC people...
Hyper-Threading only works if the core is bottlenecked and has empty pipeline stages to be filled by the Hyper-Threading.
Meteor Lake (intel 100H series) gets 4% extra Integer and 17% extra Floating point performance from Hyper-Threading and Lunar/Arrow Lake cores are even less bottlenecked and Hyper-Threading would give 3-10% extra performance at 100% thread utilization.
Yeah, so realistically desktop PCs aren't utilizing anywhere near 100% threads - that's also why ryzen efficiency claims compared to intel core, are farfetched considering higher idle consumption.
It's generally good move, even if benchmarks suffer.
@@tteqhu no, AMD chiplet based CPUs have higher idle power draw because the I/O is always active.
Arrow Lake reviews are out and now we can see that Arrow Lake efficiency is on par with Zen5.
@@rattlehead999
What are you refuting exactly? I said they consume more power, and you agreed with me?
And I still can't wholeheartedly take power efficiency benchmarks, as real use is neither a stress test nor a wallpaper simulator.
@@tteqhu blender, techpowerup tests blender and a ton of games. And again, the non-X 7000 series are hard capped at 88W and can't consume more no matter what, unless you manually go and overclock them and remove the cap.
The 7000X CPUs are dumb, the 9000 series outside the 9950x have good power consumption and are easy to cool, but cost way too much for the minimal improvements they have.
Idle power does NOT correlate with maximum power draw.
Zen 5 being a bit underwhelming really shouldn’t make people feel like they’ve been “robbed” of long term support value. AM4 wasn’t astounding value because you could upgrade every cpu generation, it was because people were able to go from a 2700x in 2018 to a 5800X3D in 2022 for nearly a 100% increase in performance.
It’s also unclear currently if there’s another technology coming soon that’ll have as drastic of an impact as X3D, and zen in general now is much more mature and optimized than Zen 2 was back then. A lot of gamers will be starting their AM5 experience on 7800X3D so at the end of the socket’s life they might “only” get a 40-50% bump.
As someone building PCs since 2010, this is still great value; I’ve been on Intel only so far and an in-socket upgrade has never to made ANY sense on their models. The one that came the closest I did recently (12600K->14700K) has really made me wish I just switched to AM5 instead. Would have cost damn near the same and been faster overall.
You know what, I was a bit worried when you said before that the quality will drop a little, so you can drop more videos and not stress as much, but the scripts are still on point (arguably the most important part of your videos) and this is kinda funny anyway. Bring back good old UA-cam where it was just a guy sitting all weird and staring at you awkwardly.
I got excited and thought kliksphilip was going to start talking about tunnel bores :(
The focus on power efficiency over performance reminds me of Multics being overshadowed by Unix. Worse at first, but it builds a foundation for much better systems
that is the coolest christmas jumper i've ever seen
also its october you mad man
Power efficiency is important. They really jumped the wattage shark last generation. Both companies should agree on a specific wattage target, probably something like 100 or 120 watts. and then go back to letting people overclock on their own, if they want. The trend of every cpu and gpu coming pre-overclocked from the factory isn't really overclocking. it just kills the enthusiast motivation to seek gains.
thank you for making content that is consistently interesting and engaging
Thanks to all haters calling kliks videos Ai, we now get to see this magnificent creature in it's native form.
I'm always suprised how level-headed your perspectives stay.
I certainly see this generation as the first since, what was it, the 11000 or 12000 generation from Intel to really bring back a balance in power/performance. Though what I'm utterly disappointed in is the prices of these processors. I was thinking of the 265K + iGPU, but when I have to consider the outlook what a successor of the 8700G will likely bring to the table in iGPU performance and price reduction after half a year, I'm not so sure if Intel really has closed the gap, not to talk about the X3D AMD models in comparison.
Why is nobody talking about heat production?
I measure 28+°C in my apartment in summer. The last thing I want to do in summer is to spin up my 3090 and add a few degrees more.
Efficiency is getting more and more important.
No sane person would turn on a 700W heater in summer.
But that's what we do to get the latest and best graphics...
I'm probably the only one excited about them purely because they add more PCIE lanes and bandwidth, especially lanes not bottlenecked by going through the chipset. I will admit that almost nobody else needs to attach 16 hard drives though
Perfect framing throughout the video 👌👌👌👌👌👌
For desktops, I feel for the most part this doesn't matter much. But I truly hope we continue to see improvements in efficiency when it comes to laptops and mobile chips overall. I feel I'm starting to get to a point where other than for gaming, more performance is sorta just excessive... I've always dreamed of the day when we could see laptops as portable and as energy efficient as those old school Windows CE PDAs, as being able to just stuff something in a backpack for weeks and pulling it out at any time you need for all day use would be amazing. Especially with Linux becoming more and more accessible, I'd love to see just how far we could push a computer to just last all day and go to and from a full suspend with minimal power usage.
i too have been saying for years that they need to work towards more power efficiency rather than raw compute. thats the way to go
While it is really boring and dissapointing for people who are aiming to upgrade right now, for us that have just upgraded this is honestly great since it means that the products that come out next gen or the gen after that will probably get a lot more power and have the power efficiency from this generation along with it.
Honestly I'm kinda hyped for the power efficiency war, I just hope it also goes for GPUs. With the exponential improvement of procesing power over the last 15-20 years it's fairly logical to have the next step be all about optimization overall rather than even MORE performance.
Who knows maybe 15-20 years from now, once the oceans have dried up because of global warming, we'll be playing hyper realistic VR games on a 300W power supply.
philip looking extra crisp today
tf that a e core is about the same performace as a 1st gen p core in 4 year is truly epic
Cant WAIT to see UserBenchmark.
I just build my first PC all AMD over the summer (7900xt and 7800x3d) so I'm glad to know that if I had waited I basically only would've gotten a slightly lower power bill.
Zen 5 is pretty big on server, but they didn't bother with a new IO die on desktop which does hamper the performance quite a bit. The gains of full path AVX512 will probably come a few years down the line when software catches up.
AMD is just trying to squeeze the most out of early adopters, it's smart business.
It's funny how bad it hurts the value proposition though, and when a gamer sees a 10% uplift for $500 (not counting a motherboard) they just wait for the next big thing.
No point upgrading if the jump is less than say 25-30%. Usually that takes 2-3 generations to get that much. Especially on intel side. So thats 4-6 years. I doubt 9800x3d is going to have more than 10% jump over 7800x3d. But i also wont be surprised if its close to 20% due to higher clocks and higher ram speed support.
The important thing is what Busser Etchshark has to say about the new Intel chips.
Tech speak is like another language to me so there's really nowhere else for me to look. Nice plaques. Lovely sheen.
I'm all up for power efficiency gains for x86 chips quite frankly, there really ought to be more competition efficiency wise to the arm stuff in laptops
It's really cool how different the intel and amd chips are built despite being pretty competitive with each other
appreciate the klikspread, godspeed
The great Hollywood slump, the great AAA gaming slump, and now x86 languishing in limbo.
As a great band once said: Modern Life Is Rubbish.
The fundamental problem with Zen 5 is that it effectively promised Ryzen 7-ish Zen 4 performance for Ryzen 5-ish TDPs. I was hyped for exactly that. But it didn't materialize.
Power efficiency is actually kind of important to me. I have a Ryzen 5 7600 which is not superfast, but it is totally sufficient for 4K 60fps gaming on Linux, at least in the games that I play. I don't feel that it is bottlenecking my 4070 Super. I went with the cheaper CPU and the more expensive graphics card, that's why I don't have an X3D, but it actually works fine, and I can't afford a higher refresh rate monitor with a high enough resolution anyway. At this point, I am more nervous about my electricity bill and more interested in new features. It seems like most very compute intensive tasks these days have been offloaded to the GPU anyway.
Its weird seeing klik using a human shell instead of gracing us with his AI God presence. Maybe we simply arent worthy of him
Begun, the Bulldozer wars have.
I didn't want to see that, Philip.
I'm fully with you. It's so sad that the vocal youtube majority doesn't give two farts about power efficency at equal performance. But to be fair to the reviewers, zen 4 was already very power efficient, you just had force zen 4 in being efficient via bios yourself. And that option seems to be so unpopular, that there is not much youtube views to be had with. So zen 5 isn't that much more efficient when compared to an undervolted and watt limited zen 4.
"Noooooo ! Not the Bore Wars !!"